Why was Ana-Lucia added?

[PhantomPhase]

Outa Here

[wickedsweet]

I think that i was enjoying the show to much so the fates decided to piss me off by adding her.

[PhantomPhase]

Outa Here

[Khan]

I thought at first you meant why the character was added, but now I think you mean why she is Hispanic. You might be right as to why they chose MR, they could have done better, far better. There are alot of Latino actresses who could have taken that role and did something with it. It would have been great to give an unknown a chance, so many of the Lost cast wasn't household names and it worked out beautifully.
As for her having so much air time I think it is because they want to do a LOTF type of situation, where two groups on an island deal with the issue that humans,without the laws of civilization become savage. In the story one group is lead by a particularly vicious character and the other a more thoughtful caring character.They need her to be central in order for her ultimate confrontations with Jack. Instead of using existing people,Kate,Locke,even Sawyer, they chose to shove MR down our throats.It didn't go over so well,so they're giving her more time to try to correct thier casting mistake.

[Hodgepodge]

I'm not going to contradict your theory, because it makes to much sense. I've been watching E-Ring at 8:00pm since the season started. I've actually never watched either the 8:00pm or 8:30pm Lost lead-ins.

[LoStMyMiNd]

I can't stand the George Lopez or the Freddy Prince Shows. They are not funny at all and a waste of my time, so I skip them altogether.

[wickedsweet]

I've actually never watched either the 8:00pm or 8:30pm Lost lead-ins

I can't stand the George Lopez or the Freddy Prince Shows. They are not funny at all and a waste of my time, so I skip them altogether.

I've never seen them either. I'm to busy watching skinny chicks snarl at eachother on America's Next Top Model:o

[Lost In His Eyes]

They added her to piss me off, I just know it! ;)

No, they probably added her just because she would complicate the love triangle even more.

[Hodgepodge]

I've never seen them either. I'm to busy watching skinny chicks snarl at eachother on America's Next Top Model:oI've never seen this one either Wickedsweet!

[Warthawg1]

I'm with those that say she was added because God will never let them be happy for more than few fleeting moments.

[wickedsweet]

I've never seen this one either Wickedsweet!

It's good old rot your brain TV. Everytime I watch it , my IQ drops about 10 points but it's to addictive to stop watching;)

[stilllost]

why wouldnt she be? every other female has been passive aggresive so far.

edit- lol @ your not enough "prominent" hispanics theory bull.

[Brian]

edit- lol @ your not enough "prominent" hispanics theory bull.
Geez, the hatred for Ana-Lucia seems to be spilling all over the place. This is where I step in for a second with the reminder to please be respectful of the posters around you. There are ways to say what you did above without being condescending. I apologize if I misinterpreted you. Thank you.

[Ana-Lucia]

if you all hate her so much, don't readher forums. Oh there's an idea!

[Ana-Lucia]

They don't think the made a mistake either! And what does her being Hispanic have to do with anything???

[azteclady]

I am going to venture to say that the Hispanic remark was in response to something said in the two posts that PhantomPhase edited/deleted.

(Oh and in case this comes across as agression, I'm female, Mexican and living in the US. Therefore, I have nothing against strong Latinas anywhere - movies, tv shows, politics, media, etc. and lots in favor of them.)


edited to correct some grammar :sigh:

[I like to listen]

"If it burns it's working"
Put the pedal to the mental.
.

[Brian]

I am going to venture to say that the Hispanic remark was in response to something said in the two posts that PhantomPhase edited/deleted.
Not sure az but that would be a good guess. :)

[wickedsweet]

azteclady said
I am going to venture to say that the Hispanic remark was in response to something said in the two posts that PhantomPhase edited/deleted

I remember the 1st post said something about MR being added to the cast to appeal to the "Hispanic demographic" and sited the George Lopez show that's on before Lost as some sort of conncetion. I don't remember the second one that's been edited.

[Ana-Lucia]

ah I see.

[Fish1941]

I thought at first you meant why the character was added, but now I think you mean why she is Hispanic. You might be right as to why they chose MR, they could have done better, far better. There are alot of Latino actresses who could have taken that role and did something with it. It would have been great to give an unknown a chance, so many of the Lost cast wasn't household names and it worked out beautifully.
As for her having so much air time I think it is because they want to do a LOTF type of situation, where two groups on an island deal with the issue that humans,without the laws of civilization become savage. In the story one group is lead by a particularly vicious character and the other a more thoughtful caring character.They need her to be central in order for her ultimate confrontations with Jack. Instead of using existing people,Kate,Locke,even Sawyer, they chose to shove MR down our throats.It didn't go over so well,so they're giving her more time to try to correct thier casting mistake.


Bullsh*t!

You people are so f*cking intolerant that it disgusts me!

[azteclady]

Fish1941, you may be interested in noting that it's generally considered poor netiquette to quote a long(ish) post in its entirety in order to reply with one line. Personally, I would be interested in reading your reasoning for dismissing the post by nthxing that you quoted. I mean, other than you think people are intolerant, that is.

[Mattie]

I don't know why she, or any of the 'Tailies', were added to the cast. My guess is it was supposed to be some kind of surprising twist. IMO it fell kinda flat. I really don't care about these Tailies and the twist wasn't at all interesting to me. Wowee, other people survived. Know what? I really don't care. It wasn't suspenseful at all (for me). For me the twist took away from the show because of the splintered storylines in each episode up until What Kate Did. That episode didn't focus much on the Tailies and it was actually enjoyable.

[wickedsweet]

fish1941
:eyebrow:

kf2
I agree with your post entirely:D

[LoStMyMiNd]

I don't know why she, or any of the 'Tailies', were added to the cast. My guess is it was supposed to be some kind of surprising twist. IMO it fell kinda flat. I really don't care about these Tailies and the twist wasn't at all interesting to me. Wowee, other people survived. Know what? I really don't care. It wasn't suspenseful at all (for me). For me the twist took away from the show because of the splintered storylines in each episode up until What Kate Did. That episode didn't focus much on the Tailies and it was actually enjoyable.


Right on KF2, I agree also

[Unnamed Redshirt Number 4]

KF2: I disagree. I actually enjoyed the subplot of discovering the Tailies, and the new characters all seem intriguing to me.

Fish1941: Fish, you might want to try being a bit more polite. We Ana-lovers don't want to get too many people angry at us. :)

[Mattie]

It's not that they aren't intriguing, it was just really really really anticlimatic. We had so many hints that they'd be discovered...that when they actually were...it was like a letdown for me. I could have told you that more people survived the moment they kept reiterating how Rose believed her husband was alive. Then in episode 19 when Boone contacted them. They should've kept it more under wraps IMO because it wasn't shocking at all, I kinda lost interest. That's just me though, I do find Libby and Eko somewhat interesting. It just seems like a plot device for them to be able introduce more hatches. These characters could have been with us from the start.

[Hodgepodge]

Well like URN4, I've enjoyed the tale of the Tailies. Like you KF2, once Rose mentioned she didn't believe her husband was dead, I knew sooner or later TPTB would find a way to add those survivors to the Fuselies. I think they did a fantastic job, by not letting it go on forever. Like, into S3 or S4. Lets get them out her and see what happened. And we sure found out what happened!

[sarelisheaq]

Bullsh*t!

You people are so f*cking intolerant that it disgusts me!

Sorry to disgust you, all-knowing, unfailingly tolerant one. :rolleyes:

IMO she was added because some of the writers are fans of her character. They've alluded to that before.

[azteclady]

Welcome, sarelisheaq!

I have read your two posts here so far and may I say, I have a feeling you'll find your way around in this here maze with no problems whatsoever! But just in case, you may want to take a gander at the Welcome Foru (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=2)m - some interesting tidbits there.

[Khan]

I don't know why she, or any of the 'Tailies', were added to the cast. My guess is it was supposed to be some kind of surprising twist. IMO it fell kinda flat. I really don't care about these Tailies and the twist wasn't at all interesting to me. Wowee, other people survived. Know what? I really don't care. It wasn't suspenseful at all (for me). For me the twist took away from the show because of the splintered storylines in each episode up until What Kate Did. That episode didn't focus much on the Tailies and it was actually enjoyable.
I think the main thrust of the twist is yet to come. The Tailies are,IMO, a great idea. The original group needs some shaking up, they've been living with thier head in the sand in spite of all the the red flags warning them not to be so complacent.
My problem, as you probably know is with the heavy handed writing of AnaL and MS's acting or rather lack of acting.TPTB rushed thier introduction,taking way too much time from the regulars,the ones that made the show a hit.They are over confidant because they think any unliked character will be like Sawyer if they have enough sex appeal and will be popular by the end of the season.If they love her they seem to think the fans will. Some will like her,but many don't and some feel she can't truly be redeemed at this point,mainly because MR can't do much better than sneer and be bitchy.

[Dezdemona]

I think the main thrust of the twist is yet to come. The Tailies are,IMO, a great idea. The original group needs some shaking up, they've been living with thier head in the sand in spite of all the the red flags warning them not to be so complacent.

My problem, as you probably know is with the heavy handed writing of AnaL and MS's acting or rather lack of acting.TPTB rushed thier introduction,taking way too much time from the regulars,the ones that made the show a hit.They are over confidant because they think any unliked character will be like Sawyer if they have enough sex appeal and will be popular by the end of the season.If they love her they seem to think the fans will. Some will like her,but many don't and some feel she can't truly be redeemed at this point,mainly because MR can't do much better than sneer and be bitchy.
I thought it was a good idea when I first heard about it too. However, I think it went wrong in the casting and execution. For one thing, I think they dragged the arc out far too long before having the Tailies unite with the main group. I think their intention was to establish the character of Ana-Lucia as a starring role, a character who would henceforth have the kind of prominence that Jack and Kate have had, and that is divided between Locke, Sawyer, and Sayid as the story dictates. The way they set up the story, however, the real potential for dramatic tension was always in the merging of the two groups, IMO. Instead, they chose to displace that entirely onto the trio of Michael, Jin and Sawyer, and center the grand climax on the shooting of Shannon. The merging of the two groups was bound to be flat after that.

I also think there have been some significant side effects to dragging out the Tailies arc that will have long-standing consequences. For one thing, Locke seems to have lost his mystique and regressed to his pre-island persona. He used to have a quasi-spiritual relationship, of sorts, with the island. Now, he sits in his little cubicle (hatch) making rosters and all he seems to care about is that the buttons get pushed.

They also used that time to virtually destroy (in my eyes, at least) Sayid. In an effort to ramp up sympathy for Shannon and wring every heartfelt tear possible from the audience with her death, they tried to make Sayid and Shannon play as a grand love story. IMO, they fell far short as I just didn't buy it. In the aftermath, I have found the grieving Sayid just about unbearable to watch, not because I feel for his pain, but rather because I'm embarrassed for the actor.

Add to their other problems the fact that they chose to write Sawyer virtually out for most of three episodes. His humor and staightforwardness were sorely missed and I thought the show felt off balance without it.

Last, but certainly not least, I think they miscast the part of Ana-Lucia. I think, first and foremost, they were simply trying to add another strong female presence to the show to take some of the pressure off Kate. Kate is so omni-present at this point as to be seen by many as a Mary Sue, but she was the only "female" lead they had, so they were forced to keep working her into every scenario. None of the other known female characters are particularly athletic, so they would have had to bring forward one of the red-shirts, or bring in an outsider from somewhere. Hence, the Tailies.

As you pointed out above, the producers have compared Ana-Lucia to Sawyer in several interviews. They seem to think the fan response to Sawyer is a formula they can simply repeat at will. However, I think they're short-changing Josh Holloway if they think just anyone could have won so much of the audience over in his role. JH has an expressive face, personal charisma and acting skill, so he's imbued his character with a lot of nuance. Yes, he's a bastard, but there's interesting stuff going on inside and that's what makes him compelling to watch for so many. Moreover, his backstory fits him like a glove, since it makes sense to imagine that a guy with an easy personal charm (when he wants) could put it to use to exploit people.

So, if they were hoping set up a tough female character who'd be disliked initially, but who could win over the fans in the long run, then I think they would have had to look for a charismatic actress, with an expressive face and a strong ability to add nuance to her character. It boggles my mind that they thought MR could do that. Her abrasiveness plays as bone deep, and any softer emotion she tries to go for comes across like cardboard. As an actress, I simply find her off-putting and annoyingly one-note - variations on a sneer.

They also screwed up what they seem to think of as their "Sawyer formula" in another important way. Sawyer was something of an outsider with the main group, joining them when they needed extra muscle (and he felt like it or they asked nicely), but keeping mostly to himself. They also made him damned funny, which helped make him tolerable even when he was at his worst. With Ana-Lucia, however, they made her a "leader" and put her at the center of a much smaller group. Therefore, her personality dominated the Tailies' story virtually completely. Unfortunately, as well, her response to the island situation was to become an aggressive, dictatorial bitch, which they conveniently explained away by telling us she used to be a cop. Yes, exactly the kind of cop we hope never to meet, i.e. one who believes her "authority" gives her the right to abuse people as she sees fit. Needless to say, Ana-Lucia doesn't have the saving grace of wit either to help make her palatable.

I have no idea how the general audience has reacted to Ana-Lucia, but she doesn't seem to have gone over terribly well with the on-line fans. Some like her and some are willing to give the character a chance, but I don't predict that number will grow to anything like the kind of support Sawyer won over. Add to that MR's offscreen troubles that put her long-term ability to stay with the show in some doubt, and I can't even imagine what the producers are planning for the character from here on. However, I do think that if they try to give her the kind of prominence that Jack and Kate have any time soon (as I think was their original intention) then I suspect we'll see an even more bitter response from the fans who simply have no use for the character.

In sum, I think the Tailies arc turned out poorly. They have a new character a lot of the fans can't stand, they've written Sayid into a corner, and Locke has lost his mystique. Perhaps Eko and Libby will add something interesting to the mix to help offset the new weaknesses they've built in.

[wickedsweet]

dezdemona

Great post!:clap: I think you nailed the "Tailies" problems perfectly. The only thing I would dare to add is that I still feel that killing Shannon off, after making the Shannon/Walt connection (as well as not bothering to tie up either her's or Boone's backstory) was a mistake and not worth the "dramatic" effect that TPTB hoped for.

[Dezdemona]

dezdemona

Great post!:clap: I think you nailed the "Tailies" problems perfectly. The only thing I would dare to add is that I still feel that killing Shannon off, after making the Shannon/Walt connection (as well as not bothering to tie up either her's or Boone's backstory) was a mistake and not worth the "dramatic" effect that TPTB hoped for.

Applause? Aw shucks.... :thankyous

I thought Boone's death set Shannon up to become a very interesting character and that she had some of her best scenes afterward. My favorite was the scene in Exodus where she explained to an impatient Sayid that she HAD to take Boone's luggage with her to the caves. She seemed so sad and vulnerable, and I was suddenly reminded how very young she was. (I thought MG knocked it out of the park in that scene.) That could, and IMO, should have kicked off her story for the balance of the run of the show - perhaps initially looking to seduce a man for company and protection (it's what she knew how to do); quickly becoming dissatisfied (no kicks to be had on Craphole Island); and trying eventually to find another way to be. I thought having Walt give her Vincent was a stroke of brilliance as it gave her something to care about besides herself, and in a sense, someone who would care about her without expecting much in return.

[Fish1941]

dezdemona

Great post!:clap: I think you nailed the "Tailies" problems perfectly. The only thing I would dare to add is that I still feel that killing Shannon off, after making the Shannon/Walt connection (as well as not bothering to tie up either her's or Boone's backstory) was a mistake and not worth the "dramatic" effect that TPTB hoped for.


I didn't see any problems with the addition of the Tailies. I think that many of the fans simply dislike the idea of new additions to the show.

People don't like change - including those made to favorite TV shows. They lack the tolerance to deal with them, so they make up excuses to hide this feeling.

[Khan]

Dezdemona I have to join Wickedsweet in praising you for your concise and intelligent anaylsis of the Tailie problem.
It is a good idea that went terribly wrong with MR in the lead and ,frankly,bad writing.
The sudden and mysterious change in the original characters is alarming,the lack of seeing them even more. My concern is TPTB are implementing a systematic "erasing" of the original cast.Most,if not all,the actors have only a one year contract. How long will they be content to mill around aimlessly in the background? TPTB could stand by polishing thier halos not taking any blame if anyone chooses to leave after this season.They have shown a complete lack of respect for these people and the viewers.
Since JJ left the show has had a subtle change,I don't think it's just the fact that they need to establish new characters that they have pushed the regulars onto the back burner. Artz was integrated without taking enormous amounts of time away from the rest of the cast.
They seem to adore Jack and AnaL everyone else is basically expendable,it wouldn't surprise me if they get thier wish,a whole new cast.

[Fish1941]

Dezdemona I have to join Wickedsweet in praising you for your concise and intelligent anaylsis of the Tailie problem.
It is a good idea that went terribly wrong with MR in the lead and ,frankly,bad writing.
The sudden and mysterious change in the original characters is alarming,the lack of seeing them even more. My concern is TPTB are implementing a systematic "erasing" of the original cast.Most,if not all,the actors have only a one year contract. How long will they be content to mill around aimlessly in the background? TPTB could stand by polishing thier halos not taking any blame if anyone chooses to leave after this season.They have shown a complete lack of respect for these people and the viewers.
Since JJ left the show has had a subtle change,I don't think it's just the fact that they need to establish new characters that they have pushed the regulars onto the back burner. Artz was integrated without taking enormous amounts of time away from the rest of the cast.
They seem to adore Jack and AnaL everyone else is basically expendable,it wouldn't surprise me if they get thier wish,a whole new cast.


In other words, you don't like change. And Ana-Lucia and the other Tailies represent that change. It's nice to know that narrow-mindedness still exists in this world.



Fish1941, you may be interested in noting that it's generally considered poor netiquette to quote a long(ish) post in its entirety in order to reply with one line. Personally, I would be interested in reading your reasoning for dismissing the post by nthxing that you quoted. I mean, other than you think people are intolerant, that is.

You're kidding, right? You're actually complaining about that?:confused:

[azteclady]

Caveat: Since it appears my previous post got lost up in the thread, I'm posting its text again.

Fish1941, you may be interested in noting that it's generally considered poor netiquette to quote a long(ish) post in its entirety in order to reply with one line.

[Fish1941]

Or maybe many of you want Ana to simply be another Kate. Strong, yet passive. Would probably make you feel better.

[Dezdemona]

I didn't see any problems with the addition of the Tailies. I think that many of the fans simply dislike the idea of new additions to the show.

People don't like change - including those made to favorite TV shows. They lack the tolerance to deal with them, so they make up excuses to hide this feeling.

In other words, you don't like change. And Ana-Lucia and the other Tailies represent that change. It's nice to know that narrow-mindedness still exists in this world.

Or maybe many of you want Ana to simply be another Kate. Strong, yet passive. Would probably make you feel better.
As you have explained in the past, you are a big MR fan who tuned into the series in the second season because she was joining the cast. Terrific, welcome aboard. You're entitled to your opinion on the character she plays, the other characters, the show in general. By all means, tell us what you think about the show and why you think it. However, it would be damned nice if you'd allow others to have THEIR OWN OPINIONS about the show without always trying to tell them what they REALLY think!!! The insults are becoming more than tiresome. Thank you.

nthxing - Dezdemona I have to join Wickedsweet in praising you for your concise and intelligent anaylsis of the Tailie problem.
It is a good idea that went terribly wrong with MR in the lead and ,frankly,bad writing.
The sudden and mysterious change in the original characters is alarming,the lack of seeing them even more. My concern is TPTB are implementing a systematic "erasing" of the original cast.Most,if not all,the actors have only a one year contract. How long will they be content to mill around aimlessly in the background? TPTB could stand by polishing thier halos not taking any blame if anyone chooses to leave after this season.They have shown a complete lack of respect for these people and the viewers.
Since JJ left the show has had a subtle change,I don't think it's just the fact that they need to establish new characters that they have pushed the regulars onto the back burner. Artz was integrated without taking enormous amounts of time away from the rest of the cast.
They seem to adore Jack and AnaL everyone else is basically expendable,it wouldn't surprise me if they get thier wish,a whole new cast.

Aaack! I had read that all cast members had been warned that any of them could be killed off at any time, and that there was a clause in their contracts to allow for that. However, I didn't know they only had one-year contracts.

I think that TPTB are coming up against some problems that are simply inherent to a show with such a big ensemble cast. It must be hard to keep the story moving forward, work in the flashbacks, build and nurture an interesting chemistry among the characters, give everyone some screen time, and continue to keep the narrative and atmosphere entertaining and compelling. Some shortcuts are bound to be tempting, but as the show goes along, they become more apparent and start to play as weaknessess. For example, they've relied heavily on Sawyer and Hurley to deliver the humor and the tell-it-like-it-is attitude, with an occasional detour to Charlie for the same. They haven't bothered to develop much sense of humor in any of the others because it's just easier to write a couple of funny lines for Sawyer or Hurley, or a confrontation for Sawyer. However, take Sawyer completely out of the picture for three episodes, and suddenly the balance is wonky. I just about cheered with relief when Michael finally pinned Ana-Lucia down and started insisting on getting some answers, and then again when he reacted like a normal human being to the weirdness of the hatch and its possible purpose. I did cheer when Sawyer finally woke up and got back into the mix.

Until the last few episodes, Locke and Sayid were strong and substantial characters. However, I do think their recent story lines have diminished their appeal. I'm not sure TPTB see it that way, and if they don't realize there's a problem, they won't be addressing how to fix it. With the addition of the Tailies, I think they were deliberately tampering with the balance, presumably for the purpose of creating dramatic tension. and I think they had a long-term plan in place to address it. Therefore, I can see their efforts concentrated on working through that. My concern is that Locke and Sayid will continue to languish when, in fact, they need some serious attention in order to build them back up from where they are now. With everything TPTB have to juggle, at what point do they decide they've burned a character too badly and that it would be easier to drop it than to make an effort to rebuild it?

OTOH, I think the recent neglect of Charlie may have done him some good as they had fallen into the rut of giving him scenes centered only on Claire and Aaron - another short cut to give screen time to two marginalized characters at once. The result, however, was that Charlie was starting to come across as something of a stalker. In the last couple of episodes, it's been something of a relief just to see the guy sitting alone on the beach playing his guitar! (JMO, of course. I must make a point of reading the character forums for Locke, Sayid, and Charlie to see what fans of those characters are saying.)

[wickedsweet]

dezdemona said
I thought Boone's death set Shannon up to become a very interesting character and that she had some of her best scenes afterward

I couldn't agree more.

She seemed so sad and vulnerable, and I was suddenly reminded how very young she was. (I thought MG knocked it out of the park in that scene.)

I've sited Maggie Grace before as a good example of an actress that brings more to a carachter than simply what's written in the script. Even when Shannon was acting like a SuperBrat MG protrayed a depth to her that Ana Lucia and Michelle Rodrigous lacks.

That could, and IMO, should have kicked off her story for the balance of the run of the show

Again I agree completely.

fish1941

Oh, never mind...

[Brian]

Fish1941,

I seem to find the need to post this again in as many threads. Please remember the Golden Rule around here, attack the POST, not the POSTER!

There are people on this board who feel passionately both for, and against certain characters. That's normal. Everyone here is entitled to their own opinion on any given character, including Ana-Lucia.

Do not take it personally just because someone agrees or disagrees with your stance on a given character. Some like her, some don't. If you disagree with someone's analysis of the character, then explain where your analysis is in conflict with someone else's but do not attack the poster with the differening opinion. There is nothing to be gained from a discussion spiraling into a personal argument. That's both childish, and not how we expect our posters to conduct themselves. Thank you.

[PhantomPhase]

Having left the Lost-Forums 4 weeks ago I have been told by current forum members I know that my post "Why was Ana_Lucia Added" has become somewhat of a war zone for Ana-Lovers and Ana-Haters. It's as if I lit the fuse on a bomb and left the battlefield before it went off, so I'm making this one exception to clarify for the free-thinking people who count.

And to the Crusaders, glad to have raised your blood pressure, your weakness makes it so easy.

After three consecutive Ana episodes many fans had a WTF type response as to why this new character suddenly seemed to take over this already-diverse ensemble show. My theory was this: Maybe they wanted to add a Latino character to draw more Latino viewers. A January 2, 2006 piece by Joanne Ostrowof the Denver Post said just that. ABC President Stephen McPherson is quoted as saying: "Almost half of the 41 million Hispanics in this country watch only or mostly Spanish Language Television, and we want to
bring that audience to ABC", which is why the show is available to viewers dubbed in Spanish. It makes sense that the addition of a new character might fit into this strategy. Someone took great offense to what I said was a prominent Latino character. I meant prominent in the sense that characters like Jack, Kate, and in the first season Locke were prominent up-front characters as opposed to secondary characters like Hurley, Claire or Rose. I also said that I didn't mind a Latino character or any new character, just not one who acts like Ana Lucia. Many of the Crusaders should write a strongly worded message to Stephen McPherson requesting his head on a platter. After all, you are morally pure, the only voice that counts.

I do not like Ana. One interesting thing that nobody has mentioned is that if the character of Ana were a male, there would be no conflict. A male character that punched, kicked, and pushed around female characters
would be despised and chastised by the majority of Lost fans. There would be no justification for his actions of having had a rough life or a had a really tough time surviving on the island. He would not be a "strong male character", he would be a villain, pure and simple. There would be no "hey, let's give this character a chance ". Some people have a twisted idea of what a strong female character is. I wouldn't like the character as written if it were male, female, black, white, red, or yellow.

I do not like Michelle Rodriquez, I do not think she is a good actress. I also tend to feel disdain for anyone who gets once a lifetime opportunity in show business and continues to get into trouble with the law. If MR had not gotten pulled over and instead crashed into another car, injuring or killing innocent people, there would not be this Hands-Across-America support. She would have gotten what Stephen King calls "The DogP$&*% of the Year Award" for being so stupid and careless. She's got the world by the b*&%s. She shouldn't p*&% it all away.

I have removed all of my posts from the Forums and no longer view these Forums because there are too many double standards. We can't mention a rumor about an actor (which is a rule I can respect) but some people (most of them Ana Supporters) are downright hostile and are given a free pass to act any way they want. If the game is fixed, I choose not to play. People made assumptions on my posts after I deleted them based on what they imagined was said. These people act before they think. Deep down some people live to be offended. Some people love to crusade because it's the only way other people will pay attention to them, or because they have nothing else. There are no wrong opinions, only popular opinions and unpopular opinions. There are some really good people who are Ana fans, and I respect your right to your views, even if I disagreed. All I expected is the same in return.

Season 1 of Lost was a melting pot of diverse characters, plot lines, and mysteries. That is what made the show such a hit and why these
forums exist. So far, and I stress SO FAR, this formula has been missing from Season 2. Old favorites are killed off to make room for new
characters and new dominant characters are added at the expense of old favorites. The good news for Ana fans is that the producers are on your side, it doesn't look like she's going anywhere, and those of us who feel she ruined the show will have to suffer through her presence. Who says we are intolerent? Noboby who ever really counted.

[wickedsweet]

luethen said
Please remember the Golden Rule around here, attack the POST, not the POSTER!

That's the only reason I don't go all :catfight: :catfight: on people's botties around here;) I'm telling you I can be a real pitbull when need be...hey..quit laughing!:baby: :weeping: :p

[Dezdemona]

luethen said


That's the only reason I don't go all :catfight: :catfight: on people's botties around here;) I'm telling you I can be a real pitbull when need be...hey..quit laughing!:baby: :weeping: :p
Was there a Hiatus Award for "Best Use of Smilies"? If not, I think the category should be added next time. This would certainly be a great candidate! :clap:

[wickedsweet]

phantomphase

I hope you change your mind about not wanting to hang out here more often. 99% of the posters here are great, the other 1% are fun to poke with sticks occasionally;)

[wickedsweet]

Was there a Hiatus Award for "Best Use of Smilies"? If not, I think the category should be added next time. This would certainly be a great candidate! :clap:


Ahh, thanks...I do love a good smilie every other post or so:D

[Khan]

Dezdemona you are so right about the humor being lost (for the most part) from Sawyer and Hurley. They also provided the voice of basic reason and truth that some of the other characters lacked.Thier humorous response to everyone else really illustrated what the other survivors where about.
They have a wonderful way of cutting through the BS and laser targeting what is needed, someone's motivations,and the failings of thier fellow Lostaways.
Beside the addition of MR as AnaL,Locke and Sayids journey into wimpdom is my biggest disappointment.I poke fun at Charlie being a stalker,but if TPTB spent more time showing us why he clings to Claire and Aaron so much I'm sure he'd seem less creepy and more sympathetic.
How does all this fit in this thread? IMO it's because TPTB obsession with AnaL that is causing thier myopic view of where the show is going and how much damage they are doing by trying to force her acceptance.So many episodes centered back to back around her shows thier total lack of discernment concerning the fans.Blithesomely ignoring the fact that giving her all that time was going to make some hate her more because she's taking too much away from the others.So many stories are not being developed because AnaL has to have center stage .... she appears to be thier favorite( along with Jack) character.It was an ensemble show ,but more and more many of the regulars are tuning into Redshirts.
I think without JJ the shows vision has changed the new head is establishing,IMO,his direction concentrating on the characters HE wants and letting the others get a bone or two to keep the fans coming back.

[Brian]

I think without JJ the shows vision has changed the new head is establishing,IMO,his direction concentrating on the characters HE wants and letting the others get a bone or two to keep the fans coming back.

nthxing, you just nailed my entire problem with LOST: Season 2 as a whole! I've been saying that since about the second episode of this season, something just didn't "feel" right. I truly hope JJ returns some time soon, before too much damage is done.

[Dezdemona]

nthxing, you just nailed my entire problem with LOST: Season 2 as a whole! I've been saying that since about the second episode of this season, something just didn't "feel" right. I truly hope JJ returns some time soon, before too much damage is done.
Aaaagh! I'm having Marti Noxon flashbacks now. I need to go lie down. *whimper*

[wickedsweet]

nthxing said

How does all this fit in this thread? IMO it's because TPTB obsession with AnaL that is causing thier myopic view of where the show is going and how much damage they are doing by trying to force her acceptance.So many episodes centered back to back around her shows thier total lack of discernment concerning the fans.Blithesomely ignoring the fact that giving her all that time was going to make some hate her more because she's taking too much away from the others.So many stories are not being developed because AnaL has to have center stage .... she appears to be thier favorite( along with Jack) character.It was an ensemble show ,but more and more many of the regulars are tuning into Redshirts.

I couldn't agree with you more. Hopefully "What Kate Did" is an indication that TPTB will focus more on the orginal survivors and return to some of the orginal mystery and storylines of season one.

As for JJ. All I can say is damn you Misson Impossible 3 and Tom Cruise!

[Brian]

As for JJ. All I can say is damn you Misson Impossible 3 and Tom Cruise!
:worshippy I couldn't have said it better wickedsweet! BJJB!*

* - Bring JJ Back

[Hodgepodge]

I thought it was a good idea when I first heard about it too. However, I think it went wrong in the casting and execution. For one thing, I think they dragged the arc out far too long before having the Tailies unite with the main group. I think their intention was to establish the character of Ana-Lucia as a starring role, a character who would henceforth have the kind of prominence that Jack and Kate have had, and that is divided between Locke, Sawyer, and Sayid as the story dictates. The way they set up the story, however, the real potential for dramatic tension was always in the merging of the two groups, IMO. Instead, they chose to displace that entirely onto the trio of Michael, Jin and Sawyer, and center the grand climax on the shooting of Shannon. The merging of the two groups was bound to be flat after that...And I think the arc was perfect! Especially the inclusion of the Jin, Michael, and Sawyer. I'd always worried the meeting of the two groups would end up being chessy. You know, like they happened upon one another while hunting or something.

Although, I do agree the main focus was put on Ana-Lucia and her leadership skills. I do think the trek through the jungle offered a lot of mystery and drama. And I'm hoping no one was disappointed by the reunions of Jin and Sun, and Bernard and Rose.*Where did I put those Kleenex?*


...I also think there have been some significant side effects to dragging out the Tailies arc that will have long-standing consequences. For one thing, Locke seems to have lost his mystique and regressed to his pre-island persona. He used to have a quasi-spiritual relationship, of sorts, with the island. Now, he sits in his little cubicle (hatch) making rosters and all he seems to care about is that the buttons get pushed.

They also used that time to virtually destroy (in my eyes, at least) Sayid. In an effort to ramp up sympathy for Shannon and wring every heartfelt tear possible from the audience with her death, they tried to make Sayid and Shannon play as a grand love story. IMO, they fell far short as I just didn't buy it. In the aftermath, I have found the grieving Sayid just about unbearable to watch, not because I feel for his pain, but rather because I'm embarrassed for the actor...Well, you all know how I feel about the current Locke. They've turn the "Great White Hunter", into someone who can't wait for lunchtime, because he packed a nice dessert in his lunchpail.

Dez, I also agree with your portrayal of Sayid and Shannon's relationship. Maybe if they'd allowed a little time for us to become invested. Instead, "I love you!" "I love you too!", then a gunshot!


...Add to their other problems the fact that they chose to write Sawyer virtually out for most of three episodes. His humor and staightforwardness were sorely missed and I thought the show felt off balance without it...Now, if I'm not mistaken, wasn't Sawyer in every episode that featured the Tailies? And I remember quite a few of his quotes. "Next time Shaft opens the cage [pulling the gun out of his waistband] he's going to get a surprising little howdy-doody." "Gosh, I guess I was too busy getting hit in the face with a club. How come you're suddenly so interested, cupcake?" "Well, let me break it down for you, Mikey. Right now, Rambina and her buddies are trying to figure out what to do with us. Until they make up their damn mind there ain't nothing we can do."

[wickedsweet]

:worshippy I couldn't have said it better wickedsweet! BJJB!*

* - Bring JJ Back


I plan to boycott MI3 (actually it's not a movie I'd have any interest in anyway but "boycott" sounds proactive)

[Hodgepodge]

...After three consecutive Ana episodes many fans had a WTF type response as to why this new character suddenly seemed to take over this already-diverse ensemble show. My theory was this: Maybe they wanted to add a Latino character to draw more Latino viewers. A January 2, 2006 piece by Joanne Ostrowof the Denver Post said just that. ABC President Stephen McPherson is quoted as saying: "Almost half of the 41 million Hispanics in this country watch only or mostly Spanish Language Television, and we want to bring that audience to ABC", which is why the show is available to viewers dubbed in Spanish. It makes sense that the addition of a new character might fit into this strategy. Someone took great offense to what I said was a prominent Latino character...I was wondering why the initial post was deleted. Now I know! Well, my responce is the same as my first post in this thread. The purpose of lead-ins, is to capture an audience for the remainder of the night. George Lope and Freddie, have latino leads. PhantomPhase's post just made sense to me!

[Dezdemona]

Hey Hodge,

I've been meaning to get back here to continue our discussion, but I've been dragging my butt due to a miserable cold this week and only posting sporadically - as opposed to obsessively. :D

I'm copying over something I posted at the Fuselage in reply to a thread asking "Where's the Outrage?" toward Eko as compared to Ana-Lucia. I'll bring the whole thing to keep it in context, because my brain is too addled with cold medicines right now to try to start it over here, but I have a comment on the Ana portion afterward that I'd like your opinion about.


For me, it all comes back to what I see in these people NOW, on the island. The crash put them all in a brand new situation. As Jack said, they all died to the outside world, and everybody gets a chance to start over. What have they done with it? What have they shown us about what makes them tick, about who they are and who they want to be? How will that likely contribute to the well-being of them all as individuals and to the society they will come to build there?

Before this episode, I saw that Eko was a man deeply committed to morality. Killing two men in self-defence was enough for him to impose 40 days of silence upon himself as penance. He provided Nathan with food, rather than see him starve. He went to help Jin find Michael. He helped Michael make a stretcher for Sawyer. He defied Ana-Lucia and left her to bring Sawyer back to camp. He did that for his own sake, not Sawyer's because it was the "right" thing to do, the moral thing to do, and it showed me he places a very high importance on being a moral person.

Eko's flashbacks were fascinating to me, and one of the themes it addressed was that of situational ethics. Rather than leave his baby brother to choose between dying and becoming a murderer, Eko kills the old man himself. However, the stain of murder doesn't just go away because Eko was trying to help his brother. Instead, it lands squarely on Eko and takes him down a dark path. Years later, he tries to convince Yemi to help him smuggle out the drugs, then he outright forces him to help, still trying to sell him on the notion that drug money for vaccines is an acceptable outcome. Again we have the question of whether "evil" means can produce a "good" result, and again the answer is no. The ultimate cost, of course, was Yemi's life.

However he got there, what we see in Eko today is a man who eschews the easier rationales that "situational ethics" make so tempting. Instead, he has bound himself to a strict morality of right and wrong, no matter the cost, and knowing that he must leash his capability for violence in order to pursue that commitment makes him only more admirable. In evaluating the chances of the islanders to build a humanistic, moral society as they go along, rather than degenerating into some Lord of the Flies horror scenario, I count Eko as a definite asset at this time.

In taking the same kind of measure of Ana-Lucia, however, I get a different result. Her reaction to the (very real) threat of The Others was to let her humanity slip away, to become brutal and savage. She embraces the easy rationales of situational ethics to justify Nathan's imprisonment and starvation, and was willing to justify his mutilation as well. She treats Jin, Michael and Sawyer badly, grinding her heel into Sawyer's wound because he had the nerve to sass her. That impulse comes from baser instinct rather than any moral code. She has confused "leadership" with "personal authority", and they are not the same thing at all. Later, she is willing to hasten Sawyer's death twice, once by abandoning him unconcsious in the jungle, a barbaric act that the others ALL disagree with and won't permit, and a second time merely because it suits her convenience - she needs the rope from the stretcher to tie up Sayid. Killing Shannon was a tragic mistake, but her reactions afterward were revealing.

Ana-Lucia's backstory showed us that she had been the victim of a tragedy she couldn't rise above. When she could have had Jason imprisoned for his crime, i.e. when the means society has developed to redress that wrong were at her disposal, she chose to cut herself loose from the social code altogether and exact a violent personal revenge. On the island, I have seen her move away from what society deems "moral" behavior and toward an easy embrace of "situational ethics" to justify reprehehsible behavior. The ease with which she does it staggers me. I saw no inner conflict in her over the idea of mutilating Nathan or leaving Sawyer unconscious in the jungle, or even any regret in her over coming to those kinds of decisions, and that's what I find chilling about her. We have not seen self-awareness or moral reflection in her at all, much less to the degree we have seen it with Eko. These things, together with her views on "leadership" and "personal authority" lead me to see her as a definite liability to the process of building a morality-based society on the island. Not only do I not find her character admirable, I see her as having the potential to influence others to become more like her, thereby diminishing their own humanity and moving in the direction of moral ruination.

Now, to put this whole thing in the context of this thread, I'm wondering if Ana's very purpose on the show isn't to be "The Corrupter". (Gawd, that's gonna get me fried!) What I mean is that there will be difficult situations to face, moral issues to be tackled. Is she there to be the face of Situational Ethics? To try to lead Jack (perhaps) or some of the others down the slippery slope toward something darker and more primitive? Any thoughts?

[Khan]

Now, to put this whole thing in the context of this thread, I'm wondering if Ana's very purpose on the show isn't to be "The Corrupter". (Gawd, that's gonna get me fried!) What I mean is that there will be difficult situations to face, moral issues to be tackled. Is she there to be the face of Situational Ethics? To try to lead Jack (perhaps) or some of the others down the slippery slope toward something darker and more primitive? Any thoughts?
Possible Spoiler
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She was supposed to be the the savage counterpart leader to Jacks cilvilzed leadership.However, now that the negative reaction to her was more than they anticipated,they may have to change thier plan. They have the problem of trying to make her acceptable so they'll have to tone down her viciousness. If they do that how are they going to ramp it up again to finish out thier story line? It doesn't work.

[Dezdemona]

Possible Spoiler
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She was supposed to be the the savage counterpart leader to Jacks cilvilzed leadership.However, now that the negative reaction to her was more than they anticipated,they may have to change thier plan. They have the problem of trying to make her acceptable so they'll have to tone down her viciousness. If they do that how are they going to ramp it up again to finish out thier story line? It doesn't work.
Oooh, there's a juicy tidbit. Do you mind me asking how you came by this? Has the fan reaction really been more negative than they expected? If all this is true, they're certainly in a jam because a cheap Save-three-kids redemption line isn't going to cut it here.

[azteclady]

I wouldn't know about the spoilerish bit but... it occurs to me that early Sawyer was pretty much the corruptor. Remember his line to Jack, while scavenging in the fuselage? "Me? I'm in the wild."

Of course, they never went as far with Sawyer as they did with Ana Lucía, and Josh Holloway is a good enough actor to give depth to the character merely by his facial expressions, well before the script redeemed Sawyer. I cannot say the same of Michele Rodriguez nor of Ana Lucía.

[Khan]

Oooh, there's a juicy tidbit. Do you mind me asking how you came by this? Has the fan reaction really been more negative than they expected? If all this is true, they're certainly in a jam because a cheap Save-three-kids redemption line isn't going to cut it here.
The interviews TPTB did last year and this year clearly stated where they were going with this character, and they expected her to be disliked in the same manner as people felt Sawyer was a jerk when Lost first came on.According to them we'd all love her as time went by. But the fans feelings toward her,for the most part,has gone way beyond anything people felt about Sawyer. She's spawned hate and truly negative posts that's not in any way like the reaction to Sawyer at his worse.
Thier reaction by centering around her three weeks in a row,putting in a poorly conceived flashback designed to garner sympathy is a indication of thier uncertainty concerning her.They are trying to make her palatable, but the only way to do that is curb her nastiness. So logically that's next to impossible to do and have her be the savage challenge to Jack.They painted themselves in a corner by chosing the wrong actress and writing an extremely over the top nasty character.
Azteclady I warned of the possible spoiler because I promised Hodge I'd be careful now that I know he hates spoilers.Apparenty he didn't know about TPTB Lord Of The Flies comments or what they said about where they wanted to go with AnaL.:)

[Hodgepodge]

First off, I loved the Fuselage piece. I'd like to comment on it, as well as try and answer your question. I'm going to split my comments between Eko's forum, where I'll quote that portion pertaining to him. And, respond in this thread regarding Ana-Lucia.

I love the term "situational ethics". I see how it can be brought to bear when talking about all the characters. Not necessarily to violent behavior alone. In the case of Ana-Lucia, I think it's improtant to look at this behavior from the same life point as Mr. Eko. Lets look at a possible Ana-Lucia childhood.

Can you imagine the conflict that went on in that household? Your mother is a L.A.P.D. police officer. I can only compare it with a student whose mother is a teacher. And happens to teach where the student is enrolled. Eyes are always on you. You can never do anything wrong. Yet Ana-Lucia chose the same career as her mother. I'm sure a psychologist would have a field day with this.

I mentioned in another thread, how hard it must be to become an L.A.P.D. police officer. It's doubbly hard if you're a woman. Now, take into consideration your mother is a Captain of said force. She probably felt she had to be the smartest. She had to run the fastest. She had to be tougher than anyone in her academy class.

Now, lets move to the streets of Los Angeles. She probably had a tough time finding a partner who was willing to trust her. Who didn't think she was part of some kind of sting. Plus, I'm sure her fellow officers thought her Captain mother pulled some strings to get her on the force. She definitely had to prove herself to the other officers. Think she may've turned a blind-eye to some of the things she saw?

She trusts some young kid coming out of a building, and is shot four-times. Looses her unborn child. Spends months in the hospital, and more time in theory.

A high school buddy of mine who joined the L.A.P.D., told me once, the worse call an officer can receive is, "officer down!" They roll, lights flashing, sirens blaring. And they're all thinking, 'if I catch the bastard who did this, their dead!' What is anybody going to do, they're the police.

Now, lets take this possible childhood, along with her time on the force, and take it to Craphole island, and look at the incidents you bring up.


...Her reaction to the (very real) threat of The Others was to let her humanity slip away, to become brutal and savage. She embraces the easy rationales of situational ethics to justify Nathan's imprisonment and starvation, and was willing to justify his mutilation as well...Thank God, I've never had to face a police interrogation. So I can't speak from personal experience. But, I'm sure you've heard of confessions beaten from inmates? What about detainees being kept awake for hours until they confess? And my favorite! Frighten into confessing? 'But Hodgepodge, there's Miranda!' Miranda is from Venezuela. He has a great voice, and plays the conga drum. That's what my police friend told me.


...She treats Jin, Michael and Sawyer badly, grinding her heel into Sawyer's wound because he had the nerve to sass her. That impulse comes from baser instinct rather than any moral code. She has confused "leadership" with "personal authority", and they are not the same thing at all...I heard a police officer accuse a young African-American kid of looking at him the wrong way. The kids punishment was to be slammed onto the hood of a police crusier. You think one of them would allow someone to sass them? I don't think so!

Remember the case of Rodney King? He was beaten by several L.A.P.D. police officers just because he forced them into a car chase. How dare he! They showed him.

Think about it! In her possible childhood, and police officer speculation, Ana-Lucia only knows how to lead through personal authority. She's been taught that throughout her life.


...Later, she is willing to hasten Sawyer's death twice, once by abandoning him unconcsious in the jungle, a barbaric act that the others ALL disagree with and won't permit, and a second time merely because it suits her convenience - she needs the rope from the stretcher to tie up Sayid. Killing Shannon was a tragic mistake, but her reactions afterward were revealing...Now I happen to agree with her decision to leave Sawyer. Her duty dictated she protect the majority of the Tailies. Not the one!

I also agree with taking the stretcher apart to tie-up Sayid. There was an "officer involved shooting". She had no backup, and none were coming.


...On the island, I have seen her move away from what society deems "moral" behavior and toward an easy embrace of "situational ethics" to justify reprehehsible behavior. The ease with which she does it staggers me. I saw no inner conflict in her over the idea of mutilating Nathan or leaving Sawyer unconscious in the jungle, or even any regret in her over coming to those kinds of decisions, and that's what I find chilling about her...And you shouldn't have seen any conflict!

The more I reflect on her background, TPTB wrote a perfect character. Ana-Lucia is a police officer. Her mother is a police officer. She's been one since birth. She know no other way!


Now, to put this whole thing in the context of this thread, I'm wondering if Ana's very purpose on the show isn't to be "The Corrupter". (Gawd, that's gonna get me fried!) What I mean is that there will be difficult situations to face, moral issues to be tackled. Is she there to be the face of Situational Ethics? To try to lead Jack (perhaps) or some of the others down the slippery slope toward something darker and more primitive? Any thoughts?I pondered this question for awhile. And, I don't think she was added for that purpose. Like all the passengers of flight 815, she's there to repent. To make amends for her life.

I do thnk, she's going to try and atone for killing Shannon. There's going to be dirty jobs to do. Ana-Lucia will assume, somebody's got to do them. She'll volunteer.

[Khan]

Hodge your post was well thought out and written,it helps me to understand why you see this character the way you do.But I have to disagree with your arguements on AnaL behalf.
I know people in law enforcment too and not all would slam someone into a car for sassing them.That is not approved behavior, if it had been caught on tape do think the department would shug and say the kid shouldn't have looked at him like that? It's not legal to physically abuse someone for giving you a disrespectful look, and not every cop would react that way.As in all professions some cops will do what they can get away with,but it's wrong.There's a mother that tours the country speaking in schools,her son was killed by another student simply because to boy said he "looked at him funny".There's no difference, it not accepted to hurt someone because they pricked your ego or we'd all have the right to beat the shit out of anyone who looked at us in a way we didn't like.Considering the nasty looks she gives people she'd be dead in an hour.
Her childhood and possible difficuly at the academy doesn't wash either,military brats,families who have been involved in law enforment for generations, or any profession where you follow in someone footsteps all have the same problem and you don't see them walking around with her attitude. The first African Americans at West Point or the first women in a "mans" job managed to be tough enough to succeed but didn't feel the need to torture someone because they had hard way in life.
Leading through personal authority as an excuse for her nastiness can be looked at another way.Sayid was in invovled in law enforcement too,where he comes from it's standard practice to treat women in ways we find appalling.
So if Sayid got a knife and went around mulilating the genitals of all the females on the island should we just say,well it's all he knows and thats how he was brought up?In a less extreme example, what if he exercised his personal authority by undermining the leadership of Jack. He could talk some of Redshirts into following him, get the guns and take over. That's what he knows, brutal repression of opposition and was part of something far tougher than the LAPD.He had power over people that AnaL couldn't dream of,yet he realized it was wrong even though he fell back into once with Sawyer.He doesn't freak out if someone diagrees with him.
It's not all she knows,she didn't grow up in bubble without being exposed to right and wrong, she was part of the LAPD, not a South American death squad or some lawless society.Eko has more of an excuse than she does.
Tieing up Sayid as an officer down situation? Does that mean wherever she goes in any country she expects to behave as though she has power and authority? She can go to England and make arrests or if she gets in fight anywhere in the world she's to stupid to know she not on duty and she's just like anyone else?

[wickedsweet]

hodge said
Lets look at a possible Ana-Lucia childhood.

Can you imagine the conflict that went on in that household?

I can also imagine a mother who was loving and caring, who did her best to offer her daughter a secure, safe enviroment to grow up in. We have no idea how Ana was raised.

I can only compare it with a student whose mother is a teacher. And happens to teach where the student is enrolled

My sister taught at the same elementary school that all three of my neices attended. Should I be scared?;) :eek:

Yet Ana-Lucia chose the same career as her mother. I'm sure a psychologist would have a field day with this.

And most of the teachers in my faimly had parents who taught and the lawyers had parents that were lawyers. My grandparents were musicians, so was my father, so is my son. Half of the firemen at our local fire department are father/son, alot of the coal miners here to. Alot of people go into the same line of work as their parents, is there really anything "odd" about that?

She probably felt she had to be the smartest. She had to run the fastest. She had to be tougher than anyone in her academy class.

I agree with this though I don't know enough about Ana yet to make an accurate guess as to why she's this way.

She trusts some young kid coming out of a building, and is shot four-times.

So much for smartest. This, for me, is just another example of Ana's flawed instincts.

A high school buddy of mine who joined the L.A.P.D., told me once, the worse call an officer can receive is, "officer down!" They roll, lights flashing, sirens blaring. And they're all thinking, 'if I catch the bastard who did this, their dead!' What is anybody going to do, they're the police.

That may be their gut reaction but how many actually act on this feeling? I would feel that way if someone hurt one of my kids but I don't know that I would act on it and if I would I hope that someone would stop me before I did.

Now, lets take this possible childhood, along with her time on the force, and take it to Craphole island, and look at the incidents you bring up.

While speculating about all this is fun, and I do the same thing, it proves nothing except how good we all are at projecting our own experiences/world views on these poor made up people but thank you for allowing me the chance to enjoy your point of view.:Cheers:

[azteclady]

it proves nothing except how good we all are at projecting our own experiences/world views on these poor made up people but thank you for allowing me the chance to enjoy your point of view.
I agree that we are all projecting our own experiences, backgrounds and moral viewpoint. However, if we allow ourselves to be flexible, we can expand our own view world to include something someone else brought to the discussion. And for that, I thank those people who can remain civil and contribute reasoned responses to heated issues. :flowers:

[wickedsweet]

Azteclady said
However, if we allow ourselves to be flexible, we can expand our own view world to include something someone else brought to the discussion

Isn't that a wonderful thing? I don't know about anyone else but I love that moment when someone opens my eyes to a whole new way of seeing things, even if it means admitting my old opions were wrong. I've learned alot in life from people who saw things in a completely different way than I did.

[Unnamed Redshirt Number 4]

Isn't that a wonderful thing? I don't know about anyone else but I love that moment when someone opens my eyes to a whole new way of seeing things, even if it means admitting my old opions were wrong. I've learned alot in life from people who saw things in a completely different way than I did.

Aha! I can still have hope! ;) :Hugglepounce: :flowers:

[John Charles]

Aha! I can still have hope! ;) :Hugglepounce: :flowers:

Here URN4:Hugglepounce: have a man-hug!

[Khan]

Are we going to threadjack and have another lovefest? Count me in here's to friends and enemies:Cheers: :Cheers: :Cheers:
The official AnaL beatings will resume shortly.

[Unnamed Redshirt Number 4]

Here URN4:Hugglepounce: have a man-hug!

Technically, it's only a man-hug if both huggees are male... but what the heck. Hugs all around! :awwhug:

Lovefest! Far out, man. Much better than all this hatin'. :Hippy:

[John Charles]

So is the man purple or yellow?

[Homer Noodleman]

Ya know, I do believe the man hug smilies have a wider acting range that MR.

[Khan]

Ya know, I do believe the man hug smilies have a wider acting range that MR.
My cat Nimue has a wider range of acting than MR and he's dead.

[azteclady]

My cat Nimue has a wider range of acting than MR and he's dead. :rotfl: Oh man... I had to wipe the tears off my eyes to reply. Thank you, Khan!

[Khan]

You are most welcome Azteclady.I aim to please.

[azteclady]

(check your inbox, dear)

[Fish1941]

My dog is a better judge of good acting than those who criticize MR's portrayal of Ana-Lucia.

[Brian]

Fish1941 - If you have a problem with people criticizing Michelle Rodriguez's acting ability, perhaps you shouldn't read this forum any longer. It's going to happen! She's an actress! People criticize her! It's called life. What I don't understand is why you get so defensive about something that Michelle herself has embraced? She realizes she plays the most disliked character on LOST.

[John Charles]

AnaL is clearly type cast. She plays the tough chick. So what.

I wish tptb had done the same with Kate. I don't buy Lily white bread in that role at all. She's a phony.

[Khan]

They are shifting into high gear now,AnaL is about to start being in command again so she can train an "army".Not only will she be accepted,everyone will have to obey her.

Jackass just handed over power to a greater control freak than he is.
It's going to come back to bite him bite him big time.

[azteclady]

This is, will everyone simply accept Ana as the instructor? Why not Sayid? Seriously, you have a trained ex Republican Guard and a cop... and you go to the cop? What the cluck?

[Khan]

I thought the same thing why not Sayid? I can only surmise he'll be called upon as well. Still he'd be my first choice,but we all know Jack and logic are mortal enemies so what can we expect?

[Hodgepodge]

This is, will everyone simply accept Ana as the instructor? Why not Sayid? Seriously, you have a trained ex Republican Guard and a cop... and you go to the cop? What the cluck?Your post does make sense AZ! Although, Ana-Lucia can train me to do just about anything she wants. I'm easy, and willing! :makeout:

[John Charles]

This is, will everyone simply accept Ana as the instructor? Why not Sayid? Seriously, you have a trained ex Republican Guard and a cop... and you go to the cop? What the cluck?

Right. We finally see eye to eye. I can accept this behavior on Jack's part easier than other things I've seen.

He likes Ana. So he went to her. Sayid probably never entered his wee mind.

[Fish1941]

I think that Ana-Lucia is somewhat qualified to help train an army. Remember, I said "somewhat". But I think that Jack just simply wanted her company, first of all. And . . . I'm sure that both will approach Sayid. So, let's not jump down Jack's throat for approaching Ana-Lucia first. It seems very unecessary to me.

[LoStMyMiNd]

I think its because jack didn't want to admit defeat to Sayid. I also tend to agree that he was pissed off at Kate so he sought out AL

[Khan]

I think its because jack didn't want to admit defeat to Sayid. I also tend to agree that he was pissed off at Kate so he sought out AL
Right now AnaL seems helpless and needy to him,just the kind of person he feels comfortable with.Oh but he's in for shock.

[wickedsweet]

Right now AnaL seems helpless and needy to him,just the kind of person he feels comfortable with.Oh but he's in for shock.

I agree. Also don't you think that Jack is playing off of Ana's outcast status? Sayid has never been shy about disagreeing with anyone, if he thought Jack were crossing lines he'd speak up. Maybe Jack's hoping that by bring Ana "into the fold" she would be more willing to back him up out of gratitude or loyalty?

Oh never mind that gives Jack way to much credit. I think Jack went to Ana because he's PO'd at Kate.

[Fish1941]

Which leaves to believe that both Ana-Lucia and Kate should stay the hell away from Jack, if they want to maintain their sanity.

[wickedsweet]

Which leaves to believe that both Ana-Lucia and Kate should stay the hell away from Jack, if they want to maintain their sanity.

:Cheers: At last we agree on something. As for "maintianing their sanity", neither seem all that stable to begin with;)

[Khan]

Which leaves to believe that both Ana-Lucia and Kate should stay the hell away from Jack, if they want to maintain their sanity.
At last we agree about something:clap: :bunny:
Poor Claire better watch out she really the most needy female on the show and Jack just might feel she needs her life fixed.
And yes Wickedsweet,being an outcast would make Jack think he has to "protect" her, it's a perfect way to get back at Kate and he might even get....nah I forgot wouldn't know what to do.

[DohBoy]

This is, will everyone simply accept Ana as the instructor? Why not Sayid? Seriously, you have a trained ex Republican Guard and a cop... and you go to the cop? What the cluck?
I concur - Sayid would seem more suited to train an army. But then I was thinking about the stellar performance of the Republican Guard during Iraq War I & II, and realized that the LAPD could likely have beaten them.

[Khan]

Does anyone else wonder if TPTB changed the plot direction because of the backlash they encountered with AnaL?
Sawyer taking the guns was well written and made sense, given the tension he had with Jack.
The Sayid episode was also well written and thought out.
However I thought the reason they brought in her character and made her so vicious to force the issue with the Others and lead the Losties in a more violent direction.
They wrote her as a dictatorial leader that would stop at nothing to get her way.She ruled the Tailies as though she owned them,but now she just sits on the beach,or follows Jack around like a puppy.
I can't help thinking the gun stunt was meant for her,it would have been a way to force her inclusion and set her up as a power in the group.
Why have her character torture? It made no sense unless you bring it to the present,perhaps she was the one to "deal" with the new guy or back Sayid in his actions.She was tailored made for these things, in light of the recent happenings it would explain so much of thier over the top writing at the seasons beginning.
I always knew she was added to introduce a violent element.And I've always felt she would be a catalyst in the group splitting.
Yet all of those actions are falling to the regulars, so I'm seriously beginning to believe they don't know how to handle the problem they created with her,and are now,possibly,being forced to change thier plot.

[Hodgepodge]

Does anyone else wonder if TPTB changed the plot direction because of the backlash they encountered with AnaL?
Sawyer taking the guns was well written and made sense, given the tension he had with Jack.
The Sayid episode was also well written and thought out.
However I thought the reason they brought in her character and made her so vicious to force the issue with the Others and lead the Losties in a more violent direction.
They wrote her as a dictatorial leader that would stop at nothing to get her way.She ruled the Tailies as though she owned them,but now she just sits on the beach,or follows Jack around like a puppy.
I can't help thinking the gun stunt was meant for her,it would have been a way to force her inclusion and set her up as a power in the group.
Why have her character torture? It made no sense unless you bring it to the present,perhaps she was the one to "deal" with the new guy or back Sayid in his actions.She was tailored made for these things, in light of the recent happenings it would explain so much of thier over the top writing at the seasons beginning.
I always knew she was added to introduce a violent element.And I've always felt she would be a catalyst in the group splitting.
Yet all of those actions are falling to the regulars, so I'm seriously beginning to believe they don't know how to handle the problem they created with her,and are now,possibly,being forced to change thier plot.Khan, this is nothing more than another Ana-Lucia bashing post. You use words like, vicious, dictatorial, and torture. Couple these with phrases like, violent element and group splitting catalyst.

[Khan]

Khan, this is nothing more than another Ana-Lucia bashing post. You use words like, vicious, dictatorial, and torture. Couple these with phrases like, violent element and group splitting catalyst.
I take strong exception to your comment that any mention of her behavior that is not praise is bashing.
Kate blew up Wayne,that was violent,Sawyer squished a frog,that was violent,Locke hit Said,that was violent,Sayid has tortured twice,that was violent. No one denies those things and many more happened.They are discussed all over the forum,yet it's not considered bashing to bring them up.
She did kill,torture,dicate,and threathen to kill her own people. She was written as a violent character who would have a strong affect, the actress admits it,the writers admit it. It happened,and liking or ever loving the character is not going to change it.
You have no problem with the thought that Locke might cause a split,or that Sayid might cause one, even Jack with his army,but mention her and it's bashing.
What I said was an attempt to understand why they wrote her as they did,but apparently any words that don't whitewash and completely alter the facts can't be seen as anything other that bashing.You missed the entire point of my post.

[Fish1941]

I concur - Sayid would seem more suited to train an army.

Great, except that Sayid has no actual combat experience. His experiences in the Gulf War seemed to be spent as a Communications officer, and not in the field.

I've always felt she would be a catalyst in the group splitting. Yet all of those actions are falling to the regulars, so I'm seriously beginning to believe they don't know how to handle the problem they created with her,and are now,possibly,being forced to change thier plot.

In other words, you're complaining against the Ana-Lucia, because she is not turning out to be a catalyst within the group, as you had expected? And that you're also complaining that the older characters are creating their own problems?

So, your complaints about Ana-Lucia has to do with the fact that the writers are not living up to your expectations?

[Khan]

There are three reasons why no answer to your post will be satisfactory.
1.I'm straight,so I can't view this character with the eyes of someone in love or lust.
2.An answer would require thinking on the part of the questioner.
3.Since I believe in one God,I'm not going to run out and buy candles to burn at the AnaL alter.

[PhantomPhase]

There are three reasons why no answer to your post will be satisfactory.
1.I'm straight,so I can't view this character with the eyes of someone in love or lust.
2.An answer would require thinking on the part of the questioner.
3.Since I believe in one God,I'm not going to run out and buy candles to burn at the AnaL alter.

AND SHE SHOOTS, AND SHE, SHE........... SCORES!!!!!! ELVIS HAS LEFT THE BUILDING!!!!!!!!!

[sarelisheaq]

Originally Posted by Fish1941
Great, except that Sayid has no actual combat experience. His experiences in the Gulf War seemed to be spent as a Communications officer, and not in the field.


You may wish to avert your eyes, Fish. For anyone interested, I don't know why people assume this. It was clear back in The Pilot (re-airing tonight). Hurley asked Sayid if he ever saw battle and Sayid replied that he fought in the Gulf War. Which makes sense, really....

[Homer Noodleman]

The problem of having Sayid in the army is he so far has killed all his commanding officers.

[Khan]

Perfect,let AnaL and Jack be his commanders.

[wickedsweet]

Perfect,let AnaL and Jack be his commanders.

:rotfl: :rotfl: That's why :iloveusig Khan:Hugglepounce:

[Khan]

Right back at you Wickedsweet:flowers:
By the way don't go back to the other AnaL thread,they have a naked Bea Arthur running around after Charlie,it's not pretty,not pretty at all.

[Brian]

By the way don't go back to the other AnaL thread,they have a naked Bea Arthur running around after Charlie,it's not pretty,not pretty at all.
Well, the guilty parties there know who they are. ;) But that said, it's definitely not pretty. It even affected my typing skills....*shudder* :)

[Fish1941]

Outa Here

I guess that Ana-Lucia was added to the show to piss off the fans. Which made me happy.

[PhantomPhase]

Um, I deleted that over three months ago Fish1941. Are you feeling OK?

[Fish1941]

Um, I deleted that over three months ago Fish1941. Are you feeling OK?

The thread is still on the forum and I'm in a pissy mood. Sue me!:Headbang:

[PhantomPhase]

Oh, I saw no difference in your behavior today. You still bring all the laughs, the giggles, and the bits of good cheer that you always do. :rolleyez:

[Fish1941]

Oh, I saw no difference in your behavior today. You still bring all the laughs, the giggles, and the bits of good cheer that you always do. :rolleyez:

I aim to please.:sleepzzz:

[PhantomPhase]

Seriously Fish1941, are you related to Michelle Rodriguez? I have never seen anybody so intensely fanatical about a character. Hell, there are people who say some of my favorite movies suck, but that doesn't mean I still don't like them or feel the need to defend them with such brutal intensity.

[Ana-Lucia's boyfriend]

Kumbaya my Lord....Kumbaya:Hippy:

[PhantomPhase]

With all due respect Leigh, Fish1941 is just as guilty as everyone else of bashing characters that other people like. She almost made Leuthen's bottom lip quiver with her rants against Kate. It's part of life on the forums. Hell, people cheered when Charlie got the crap beat out of him. So it is ok to not like a Ana. At least for now...........

[wickedsweet]

Leigh said
Honestly I think part of the problem is that people bash HER with such brutal intensity, and sometimes they let it cross from fiction (Ana) to reality (Michelle).
I think that for some reason some Ana Lovers take Ana bashing personally and I don't understand that reaction. I love Sawyer/Josh Holloway (as if that wasn't obvious) but it doesn't bother me in the slightest that others not like, or straight out bash him (with the exception of people who whine about the Ana Bashing and then turn around and do the same thing (bash) with other carachters). Their opions on a carachter I like in no way make my opions toward him any less valid or right for me.

As far as the Ana dislike crossing over into MR dislike I'd have to say that I despise Ana, I would love to see her written out of the show and I don't care how the writer's do it as long as she doesn't take anymore of the Losties with her. As for MR, I think she's a lousy actress and I really resent the hell out of her driving practices but otherwise I think she's a very pretty woman and I hope she gets her self together, as far as drinking and driving, and has a wonderful life and career.

[Khan]

Honestly I think part of the problem is that people bash HER with such brutal intensity, and sometimes they let it cross from fiction (Ana) to reality (Michelle). I have a problem with both.Some of her lovers seem to forget she does not exist and behave as though we have kicked thier frail 90 year old granny because we point out characteristics and actions that she has portrayed .Becoming way to upset if we see her as anything but a sweet harmless little flower child who never hurt a fly.The character herself is about as brutal as they come on Lost.
And, when your a dedicated fan of someone you admire and/or believe in, or even just simply enjoy it gets REALLY old REALLY fast when you see nothing but unrelenting verbal assaults not just on a character you like but on an actress you really like.... I've made no bones about the fact that I feel she's a truely bad egotistic actress.And that I feel she's the main reason that the character wound up being so hated in the first place.However you see something in her you like,that's great.But you can't expect me to like her anymore than I expect you not to.To each his own.
....it's hard to take and sometimes you just get fed up and lose it....then YOU look like the bad guy. I understand that because I'm not known for having a placid temperment. But when you constantly castigate postersfor not being in love AL or MR you've crossed the line since,everyone has a right to discuss what they like and don't like about Lost.The bashing should stay with the show.
Fish is a fan of someone who's getting bashed bashed bashed, it's only a natural reaction. I've had it....I've since tried to calm down a bit....but still I understand, hate Ana all you want, but chill out on Fish and MR and I think he/she'd be a bit nicer. If you have the time check back over the posts,time and again we have been the object of personal comments,it was rarely the other way around. This is not new and as posters some of us are fed up with being attacked personally,especially for posting in AL hate threads.What does she expect to be there? Love letters? We vent our dislike.She's knows that.
Can we all just get along? Come on....let's here some Kumbaya huh? :)Of course we can get along,most of the time we tease the hell out of each other without any ranchor.We've also have grown and learned over the course of these discussions.I've had some of the most fun with her supporters.I don't believe I've ever dealt with a poster harshly until they got too personal with me.

[PhantomPhase]

Thats all fine Leigh, but when we get to the point where we can't say: I think Michelle Rodriguez is a bad actress in the written terms of our own choice, then it's all over, because that's just censorship for the benefit of a select few. And when that happens, that when I take a permanent vacation much to the delight of that same selected few.

[PhantomPhase]

Well sometimes I do express myself that way and I'm not changing to cater to someone else.

[Khan]

H Now, had you said, "She the worst actress in the world! She has one expression, she is boring she sucks she's ugly blah blah blah!"...then we'd have a problem. :D

See, I'm cool with anyone so long as they are at least NICE about their constructive criticism/disliking. :)
That's the rub isn't it? I'm a Sawyer fan and I hear people say he's an ass all of the time,but it doesn't bother me. If they feel that way so be it.
There are no pretty words for a violent character.Which is not her worst fault IMO,because I have a violent streak in me a mile wide so I understand it from the inside out. I do however control it, and I dispise torture,but I don't pretend it's something it's not or that it isn't there.
As for the actress if she's boring to people,she's boring.There's no reason to put on a false grin,jump through hoops and tip toe around the issue.It's just one persons opinion,like music, if opera bores you it bores you.The word suits what you are feeling.

[Brian]

Fine, then don't get mad when I "express myself" right back. ;)
That's what we do best here, Leigh. I don't think anyone's ever gotten "mad".....wait, there have been a couple of times, but for the most part, we all get along here. Those here who "hate" (which is a strong word and I've said that all along) Ana and those of us here who love her, get along rather well. We all take shots at each other, but it's never personal, at least on my part, and others as well.

I think you've met the majority of those who are interacting in this forum on both sides by this point. Some have yet to chime in, on both sides, but you'll know them when you "see" them I think. As you can tell, this can be, at times, a volatile forum but for the most part, it's an enjoyable one.

I can sit here and debate Ana/MR all night long, but I choose my battles carefully. Afterall, most of us get along rather well and this forum really gets cranked up whenever Ana is shown on screen during LOST; on both sides. ;)

[PhantomPhase]

Yeah, we haven't had an Ana episode in at least two months - not that I'm complaining - but something tells me it's going to heat up again soon.

[DohBoy]

^ Looking forward to it, actually! Hopefully it doesn't get too hot. Let's hope this time we can all avoid the personal attacks. I'd like to see all of those negative feelings and any weird personal vendettas pushed aside for any future rounds of Ana-debate.

You know, a clean slate. Tabula rasa. Start fresh. Pretend I never called any of you guys ... uh ... nevermind. ;)

[LoStMyMiNd]

HAHAHA....isn't it obvious by now that TPTB put AL in this show to create conflict? I'd say they did a pretty good job of it, I mean look at all of it :rolleyez:

[PhantomPhase]

Ana haters and Ana fans are like football fans. Ever notice when the camera pans over the opposing teams fans during a game, and the fans are all made up and whooping and hollering they are :"Stupid, Obnoxious, Jerk-Offs". But when they show your teams fans doing the same thing your home fans are: "Loyal, Just showing their Love, and Undying in their Devotion".

[DohBoy]

^ Good analogy. I'll start production on my Ana-Sneer Masks. I've already painted up a sign that says "Ana Lucia Can Shoot ME Anytime!!!" and I'm looking for a couple of other guys to paint the letters "N" and "A" on their bellies during the show.

A-NA! A-NA!

[Brian]

Indeed Leigh! As you can tell, there's no confusion around here about who's who. :)

Oh, I'm with you DohBoy and I'll keep a closer eye on this forum the next go 'round. I'm not worried about those of us who are here now, well not most of you anyway, but the random drive-bys this forum gets from time to time.

[PhantomPhase]

You know Leuth, I could have just as easily made that an Ana torture photo, but I didn't, nope. By the way: Where's Homer gone to?

[Brian]

By the way: Where's Homer gone to?
Well, Homer's been sick lately and now he's busy with family business. He checks in when he can but he's not around as much as he normally would be.

[PhantomPhase]

Classy

[azteclady]

A word of caution from your neigborhood non-entity: Leigh, you may want to put some warning on the link, since the forum is rated PG-13, and technically, the image is not (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on this, people!)

For the record, I think the character of Ana Lucía had extraordinary potential, but so far Michelle Rodríguez has completely destroyed that with both her lack of acting ability and her permanent sneer (not to mention that there's something in her speech that bugs the hell out of me, but... well, that last bit is really on me, so I can't list it ;) )

On the other hand, I can perfectly well see why Leuthen, Hodgepodge, Leigh, and others like the look of Michelle Rodriguez - she has a very nice figure (disagreeing heartily here with NokomisIsABadRobot on the matter of MR's erm... proportions), and when she actually laughs (check her picture thread) there's a joie de vivre in her face that we haven't seen on LOST.

[DohBoy]

I'm going to do eveything I can to not argue here....b/c this place seems nice. So, when I get fed up and can't stand it any longer...I'll let Michelle speak for me:
lol - I hope people on the other side of the Ana fence took this as intended ... with humor!

she has a very nice figure (disagreeing heartily here with NokomisIsABadRobot on the matter of MR's erm... proportions), and when she actually laughs (check her picture thread) there's a joie de vivre in her face that we haven't seen on LOST.
Thank you! MR has a beautiful smile. And other beautiful parts. Not everybody can have voluptuous 36DDs, and in fact, some of us prefer ... smaller proportions.

[azteclady]

Cap'n, some of us on this side of the gender divide also like our proportions to be smaller ;)

Just saying.

[DohBoy]

^ Glad to hear that. After visiting the "Hottest Girls" thread, I was getting this crazy idea that only excess makeup and near-exposed plastic DD boobs were the norm for what a woman should look like to be attractive.

MR has curves. And hips. And a normal-sized bust that she doesn't feel a need to turn into a cleavage canyon. Nice brunette curls. She's quite a looker. I just may need to take Hodge's proverbial "minute"!

[PhantomPhase]

Michelle Rodriguez does nothing for me. That's just me. As i said before, if she makes you wanna rub one out, or flick the bean, make it a damn good one. Besides, today I only have eyes for AztecLady.:love2:

[DohBoy]

^ LOL!! Nice.

[PhantomPhase]

Actually in Leighs finger photo, it looks like Ana's saying: "WON DALLA, WON DOLLA FO AN OWA, ONE DOLLA AN ME LOVE YOU LONG TIME".

[PhantomPhase]

Some of us males actually think with the big head, not the little head. I wouldn't hit that for anything, Just like I would never hit Pamela Anderson. I have to much respect for "My friend" to put him where god knows what has been. And the male mind? Don't forget some women actually had sex with Earnest Borgnine.

[PhantomPhase]

Kate Beckinsale. There is a latino girl on "The Shield" who I like, which blows Fish's opinion that I'm prejudiced against Ana cause she's Latino. To be honest, I don't go for famous women too much anymore. Why look when you have no chance in hell of touching. My taste is more obscure, girls who are hot, but may not realize it. Honestly.

[Fish1941]

Kate Beckinsale. There is a latino girl on "The Shield" who I like, which blows Fish's opinion that I'm prejudiced against Ana cause she's Latino. To be honest, I don't go for famous women too much anymore. Why look when you have no chance in hell of touching. My taste is more obscure, girls who are hot, but may not realize it. Honestly.

No, my opinion is that you don't like Ana-Lucia because she has an aggressive and ruthless personality, which society would deem unsuitable for a female.

[PhantomPhase]

No Fish1941, you called me a sexist racist. There are plenty of Ana fans who remember that and would, even though it would pain them, be quick to remind you of that post. Since three of my best friends on the site are women, and one is Mexican, that pretty much showed how assinine that claim was. As for the strong women thing that you obsess over, I...................Fish1941, exactly what color is the sky in your world? :confused:

[Khan]

:rotfl: :rotfl:

[azteclady]

Fish1941 graciously explained to PhantomPhase:
No, my opinion is that you don't like Ana-Lucia because she has an aggressive and ruthless personality, which society would deem unsuitable for a female.My opinion is that Fish1941's arrogance is rather insulting.

[Brian]

Besides, I know that I personally like to be perfectly proportionate (like MR) than be one way or the other (top heavy, curvless, whatever). It's the whole hourglass thing, and I THOUGHT guys liked that, but apparently not lol. It's kinda like the whole Evie thing, hey that chick is girl next door kinda cutish and when she's all made up she looks rather pretty, but that's it. The rest of the times she's basically curveless. But MR has that sort of beauty/bombshell thing goin on....and that's cooler to me. But that's me, and my perspective doesn't matter much. *shrugs*
Evie and MR, my two favorite topics of discussion. ;) Oh, and for the record, I DO love the hourglass thing. To be quite honest, I love women in general and there are no "specifics" that I look for when attaching a level of attractiveness. I think MR has a wonderful body, but that's me. I've loved her in everything she's done but I haven't seen every movie she's made, close though.

[juanbong]

Did anyone see MR on Carson Daly this past Tuesday night? Don't tell me she isn't hawt, and can joke around with the better of them. In my honest opinion, (and opinions are like a$$h*&@s-everybody has them), why do so many people bash the girl? Cause she is a drunk? Alright, but most of the chicks (yea, I said chicks) are pretty close to how she acts on a Saturday night. Cause she is a bad actress? Alright, but so are most freakin' actress' out there now. Cause she plays the same role? Alright, so do most actress until they win a grammy.
I wish this argument would die and more people would contribute to the non-metallic metals (cough *sarcasm* cough ). A-L is good at what she does, may not float yr boat or whatever, and will be a big part of the end of the shop. Again, IMO.

[PhantomPhase]

Oh, Juanbong is right. We should just pack up and head to the lonely area where nobody ever goes known as MICHAELS FORUM. Actually, we have had some of the best debates on the Forums right here. That's why it keeps going. Why do I find Juanbong's avatar strangely erotic?

[juanbong]

As long as the argument is clean, no punches below the belt! Ha ha, kiddin'!!

[juanbong]

Quoted by leigh:
That was a nice backhanded compliment....I thought "Man this guy's right....cool! Then I kept reading, and little part of me died.

*sigh*

Whoa, back-handed? How do you figure? I am actually supportive of her. All I did was state ideas that have been already sent out there. I can not judge her because I am not her. I can only state what I have read. Sorry if it sounds like a bash.

[Brian]

Yeah, jb is one of the few "Proud member(s) of the Ana-Lucia Fanclub" we have around here. Anything construed by him to be negative is most likely a typo, or an attempt at sarcasm/humor on his part. :)

[juanbong]

Quoted by Leigh:
juanbong....I guess I thought you meant "alright" as in "that's correct".

Leigh,
I see your point. It did sound that way but it wasn't suppose to. I was merely saying, "If that is how you think of her-I see what you (the posters) are saying, but...." I didn't mean to offend you Leigh. As Leuth states, there are very few of us that actually support her in her role on the show and as an actor. I was merely trying to get across that most people on the board will bash her for those qualities that I mentioned, but they take it to a new low. I hope this may clear up any negativity about the post.

Quoted by PhantomPhase:
We should just pack up and head to the lonely area where nobody ever goes known as MICHAELS FORUM. Actually, we have had some of the best debates on the Forums right here. That's why it keeps going.

I agree, that is why I added the sarcasm part. Now as for Micheal's Forum, nobody goes there, do they?

ETA: I wrote down Grammy in my post, which is a typo :banghead: :banghead: . The Oscars were just on and I couldn't remember the award?! Good gravy! I really need a vacation!

[azteclady]

(...) I was merely trying to get across that most people on the board will bash her for those qualities that I mentioned, but they take it to a new low. (...)Pardon me, juan, but could you explain to this rather slow aztec wench what you mean by this? I don't want to take exception to something that may very well be a neutral statement, you see, but the way I'm reading it right now (which may very well not be the way you intended it), is that by saying "I don't think Michelle Rodríguez can act her way out of an empty room" -which is my opinion, by the way- I'm bashing the actress. Whereas I thought that bashing the actress would be talking about her drinking or suspected sexual behaviour or whatever (which is none of my business, except insofar it could conceivably put someone else at risk). Thank you for explaining.



:pissed: typo :pissed:

[PhantomPhase]

Yeah, I concur. What someone else chooses to do in their personal life is nobody's business. Only when you risk the safety and well being of others does it become fair game for judgement.

[juanbong]

Quoted by AZ:
Pardon me, juan, but could you explain to this rather slow aztec wench what you mean by this? I don't want to take exception to something that may very well be a neutral statement, you see, but the way I'm reading it right now (which may very well not be the way you intended it), is that by saying "I don't think Michelle Rodríguez can act her way out of an empty room" -which is my opinion, by the way- I'm bashing the actress. Whereas I thought that bashing the actress would be talking about her drinking or suspected sexual behaviour or whatever (which is none of my business, except insofar it could conceivably put someone else at risk). Thank you for explaining.


Ok, let me try and get it out of my head a little clearer. I think we all agree that MR has taken some rolls that seem to be the same (tough girl in Fast and Furious, Girlfight, Lost, S.W.A.T., Blue Crush, Resident Evil, BloodRayne). Some people feel that she can't act. I feel that she is being typecast. I also feel that she plays the tough girl role well. Now with that said, I do believe there are a lot of people who do not like her because of this point.
Now her behavior and excessive alcohol useage has made for media fodder on a couple occassions. She has been arrested, verbally abused a cop?!? I may not agree with her antics, but this is her life. If she wants to be doing this, that's on her plate. Same goes with her sexual behavior.
As for putting someone at risk with her behavior, I agree with you AZ that it is harmful. I would hope that she was more responsible, but to each their own, unfortunately.
Now, as for bashing.... this is what I am speaking of....

AnaL/ML Hate clubs (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11026)

ATTN. TPTB Bribe offer (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11230)

A Polar Bear Fell On Ana (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11626)

If They Replaced MR (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11720)

I Hate This Character Already (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3183)

Ana-Lucia is Dangerously Unstable (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10934)

Within these threads are some good arguments, and then some retarded retorts. If I go to Kate's character threads, the worst I see is that she can't be trusted (which is how I feel), or that she is manipulative. All I am saying is that each person has their own opinion of a character. Fine, but the harsher criticism seems to go towards A-L. Some people may feel because of her personal life. Others may think because her acting is not up to par. All I was trying to convey was that I do support her as a person. I do defend her acting skills. I don't care for her wild personal life. But I respect all of her being. Does this explain what I was talking about? I think I am lost now!

(AZ, you are by far not slow, nor a wench. Good gravy!)

p.s. Sorry it took so long to reply. I am at work and had to help some kids out with finding some info. and journals.

[PhantomPhase]

In all honesty Jaunbong, I developed my dislike for Ana after watching the episodes in which she was introduced. Then I came to the forums and found a whole variety of Anti-Ana threads to choose from. Her arrest, the revelation of her previous arrests, and the smug mug shot did not endear me to the actress. I think the majority of Lost fans dislike Ana-Lucia, that doesn't mean she doesn't have a fan base, a very fanatical fan base. And much of the dislike can be credited to the producers and what some of us believe are poor acting skills. I saw Resident Evil, and the Fast and the Furious before she was on Lost, she made no lasting impression on me in those films other than to say she looked like a dirty girl, as in PE-EW, Courtney Love I never bathe Stinky. Thats just my opinion. I created two of these Threads (Why was Ana Lucia added) and (A polar bear fell on Ana) The first was honest question that has taken on a life of it's own as you can see. The second was a PhotoShop picture I created that showed a Polar Bear laying in a heap on Ana as Sawyer looks on laughing, It was meant as a gift to my fellow Ana detractors, But when I saw that parodying (which I have done to other characters as well) was considered bashing, I realized that some of her fans have a sick obsession.

[juanbong]

I agree with what you are saying PhantomPhase, and I am not trying to turn anyone's opinions around. I didn't have an opinion of her in those movies as well. Typecast is what I found her role to be. Now, as Stewie would say, "You dirty, dirty girl": I can't clean her up so I won't try, but I see where you are coming from!

[PhantomPhase]

Also Juanbong, I was being humorously sarcastic with the Michael thread, I just meant that we have had some pretty good times in the Ana threads and I made some of my best friends here (Leuthen, Khan, WickedSweet, AztecLady). I just meant that the Ana threads are where all the action tends to be on any given day, where as Michaels thread is like: "Do ya think he'll find WAAAAALT this week?" By the way, I do like your Avatar, Cynthia has the pouty look down pat. :D

[juanbong]

No worries PP, I gotcha on that and figured as much! I also do agree that I have read some of the best arguments/statements in the A-L threads too. But seriously, do people go into the Michael threads..;) .
Yes, even though people think Libby is an other, she can be my other anyday!

[azteclady]

juan, I was trying for self-deprecating modesty with the slow aztec wench bit. In fact, it seems some people find me arrogant - go figure ;)

On to your post - I cannot give a first hand opinion on MR acting anywhere but on LOST, since (as I've said a few times) I've never seen her on anything else. My opinion of her acting abilities, or rather, the glaring lack thereof, comes exclusively from watching her portray Ana Lucía.

Has MR been typecast, in the sense of being offered only cookie-cutter versions of the so-called tough chick? Some posters here, who have seen her in a few movies, seem to seem that is the case, and defend her portrayal of Ana Lucía by saying that that's what the character calls for. Other posters argue (and some of them have quoted MR -I wish I could remember in which thread in this forum), that MR herself chooses this type of role.

Either way, typecast by choice or by fate, or not typecast at all, I still don't think MR has pulled Ana Lucía off.

On to the threads you list (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=447804&postcount=160): I believe that several of those threads were started with humorous and/or sarcastic intent, and not necessarily out of hatred of MR. After all, plenty of the people who dislike MR-as-Ana Lucía have not, like myself, seen her anywhere else, so for those there's no preconceived dislike of the actress.

And drabauer's Ana Lucía is dangerously unstable (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10934) was started with the express intent of analysing the character psychological makeup, not bashing either character nor actress.

Furthermore, and once again pulling other characters into this fray, I distinctly remember - from my days as moderator - threads in both Shannon's and Kate's with the word "bitch" in the title, plus an most excellent thread (oh so sadly chopped to almost nothingness in the great ezhack of 2005), by ChanceGardener (Kate is an emphatic sociopath (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7752)), which pretty much belies the assertion (not made by you, juanbong), that it's only the tough strong women who get criticism, hatred, or are bashed by fans of the show.

Of course some posters will not be as articulate as you or I, nor as civil as most of the people who have heatedly and respectfully defended their opposing positions in this and other forums. That's the nature of online interaction. As someone once said, "Cyberspace is a very large pond and consequently attracts an awful lot of pond scum" (Tanith Tyrr)

[juanbong]

AZ,
First off,

I was trying for self-deprecating modesty with the slow aztec wench bit. In fact, it seems some people find me arrogant
Arrogant, naw. To the point or blunt, hellz yeah! But, that is why I like you so much. I remember you from the ezhack days and always thought of you as the one who was/and still is quick witted and sharp tongued. IF some people consider that arrogant, I am leaving the boards and never coming back. You are fine in my book (whether we agree/disagree/whatever).
Now, as far as the threads listed. Yes, I totally understand that a majority of them are done out of humor. Hell, I am really only playing devil's advocate with MR and her acting chops. I am not one to pout/get pissed/whatever because I love and enjoy a good debate. Like PhantomPhase said, and I made some of my best friends here (Leuthen, Khan, WickedSweet, AztecLady).. I agree! If we can debate logically or rationally about a topic, I am game. I also agree on drabauer's thread analysis of A-L character. I guess I do have the problem with posters that sum up their posts with, like 3 words, "You suck, bye!" (Not paraphrasing, but I think you get my drift.)
Again, I come across on the boards as one who loves a good joke/parody, one who will debate both sides if needed/or just want to, and doesn't take offense to too much on the threads. (Man, all this work just because I had 3 beers in me last night and thought "What the hay. Let me get in on the A-L action." But it is all good.)


The walls of books around him, dense with the past, formed a kind of insulation against the present world of disasters- Ross MacDonald

We Good?- Jules Winnfield

[PhantomPhase]

Actually, I think seeing MR play something that is a stretch beyond what has already played would confirm or kill any argument. Could she play the Shelly Duvall character in The Shining, or the Mia character from Pulp Fiction without a hint of Michelle Rodriguez street tough in the role. I'm not so sure she could pull it off.

[PhantomPhase]

Yes, but see that goes both ways. While you may feel some of her fans have a sick obsession WITH her, they may feel you have a sick obsession about hating her. Who cares either way!? Come on....if you don't like MR cool, if we do, cool....let's just not bash her nor eachother huh?

I don't recall bashing you Leigh. I just countered your posts with my own opinion. I don't agree with your defense of Fish, and I ignore it because if you look at the threads from months ago, I myself bore much of Fish's unprovoked attacks. And you notice I said "Some" of her fans, no names.. That makes a difference. The problem is that any criticism is considered bashing, and why have forums at all if we are not permitted to critic any of the characters or actors.

[azteclady]

(...) let's just not bash her nor eachother huh? (...)Indeed. As far as I can remember, and a quick *coughyeahrightcough* search of my posts could confirm, I have not bashed any poster who hasn't bashed me first. So I'm cool.

juan, we good always - after all, you are librarian and spend your days in that glorious universe of written works... oh dear, I need a Hodgepodge-minute!

[juanbong]

[threadjack] I am now banishing the word Bash in my posts as I seem to use the term too loosely (and am not articulating it correctly when I mean something else). I apologize to everyone on that account. I need a new dictionary.[End threadjack]

This actually is me talking aloud and in no way should affect anyone reading.
As Officer Barbrady would say..."Carry on. Nothing to see here!"

[sarelisheaq]

Originally Posted by Leigh
Yes, but see that goes both ways. While you may feel some of her fans have a sick obsession WITH her, they may feel you have a sick obsession about hating her. Who cares either way!? Come on....if you don't like MR cool, if we do, cool....let's just not bash her nor eachother huh?


That is fair. I see what you're saying now, and it's cool. Lost fans tend to appear a bit obsessive, period. Does that work? I was under the impression that you found it hypocritical for people to respond to the way they have been treated personally. I think most people are here for the subject matter rather than to bash and be bashed, and you're right. There is no right or wrong about it, only strong opinions. Strong, strong opinions. :cool:

[Khan]

I don't recall bashing you Leigh. I just countered your posts with my own opinion. I don't agree with your defense of Fish, and I ignore it because if you look at the threads from months ago, I myself bore much of Fish's unprovoked attacks. And you notice I said "Some" of her fans, no names.. That makes a difference. The problem is that any criticism is considered bashing, and why have forums at all if we are not permitted to critic any of the characters or actors.
I've had to deal with that same problem. The slightest hint of disapproval and some her fans start screaming bashing.Yet they are strangely quiet when "bashing" Kate or calling Sawyer an ass in threads that have nothing to do with him. The unending outcry about so many people hating thier beloved as an excuse to attack posters make no sense.
It always comes back to everything and everyone but the character or the actress.There is no real way to vent against those who don't like AL or MR for thier opinions,so the only thing left is to avoid the topic and and pull out bizarre arguements to negate our right to make up our own minds.Some of us don't like AL or MR and we say it,we do not want the free analysis of our motivations,we have been blessed with fully functioning brains are are capable of doing our own soul searching. We do not sit around all day pulling lint out of our navels waiting for some AL/MR fans to tell us why we like or dislike the things we do.If we feel we need help I'm sure we would choose someone who actually knows us.
The AL/MR threads has been taken over with people having to defend themselves for having an opinion other than one that coos and ahhs over them.Unless attacked we generally avoid "bashing" posters,but this is the opening to a thread started by FishSay all you lovers of Ana-Lucia Why don't we start a club that hates those that bash her character? We'll call it Hate Against The Ana-Lucia Bashers Club
This is what we've had to put with for months and that is why so many are not in the mood to put up with personal attacks.

[PhantomPhase]

Actually I've made up my mind. I'm going to post whatever I feel as long as it's within the guidelines of the forum. When it comes to expressing an idea, I answer to no one. To pharaphrase Locke in "The Hunting Party", "What right does any of us have to tell another what to do".

[Warthawg1]

Actually I've made up my mind. I'm going to post whatever I feel as long as it's within the guidelines of the forum. When it comes to expressing an idea, I answer to no one. To pharaphrase Locke in "The Hunting Party", "What right does any of us have to tell another what to do".

Excellent PP. That has always been my policy. It's a good one.

[PhantomPhase]

I have not bashed any poster who hasn't bashed me first. So I'm cool.

Actually AztecLady, you did bash me, but it was a consensual act between two adults. :naughty:

[NokomisIsABadRobot]

I 100% agree with PP and Khan.. it is our right to say what we wish about this show as long as it stays within the guidelines of this forum. It is no one else's right to tell me how to think and speak. :soapbox:


she made no lasting impression on me in those films other than to say she looked like a dirty girl, as in PE-EW, Courtney Love I never bathe Stinky.
YES.... thats it entirely. It isn't the itty bitty-ness, it's the bra-less skanky 6 pack of beer trailor park-ishness that she exudes. Check the luggage!! Someone must have a bra you can wear.. (and a fresh shirt that doesn't show off your pointy nipples)
Sun has equally itty titties... but she looks like a class act all the time. :thumbs_up

[Brian]

....I realized that some of her fans have a sick obsession.
Hey, I represent that remark. :) Yeah, I do have an obsession, sick is in the eye of beholder I guess. ;)

[Brian]

Actually, I think seeing MR play something that is a stretch beyond what has already played would confirm or kill any argument. Could she play the Shelly Duvall character in The Shining, or the Mia character from Pulp Fiction without a hint of Michelle Rodriguez street tough in the role. I'm not so sure she could pull it off.
You have a point here, PP, but remember, that's why TV shows and movies have Casting people. No Casting whatever-the-hell-their-title-is would ever cast MR in any of those roles. Nor would they cast Shelly Duvall or Uma Thurman for Letty (The Fast And The Furious), Rain Ocampo (Resident Evil), or Chris Sanchez (S.W.A.T.) because they'd never be able to pull of the character. That's a Casting (Director?)'s job, to find the perfect actor/actress to fit the role they're casting for.

Using your examples, would Shelly Duvall be able to pull off a believable Rain Ocampo? Not only no, but hell no! MR fits the roles she's casted to be in because they fit her personality and screen presence. I don't think anyone could have pulled off Letty other than MR. The only questionable role that MR has (from what I've seen, mind you) is Ana-Lucia. Could they have found someone else better? Maybe. Remember the spoilers leading into S2? Ana-Lucia was supposed to be an older character, something MR couldn't have done. That goes back to a question I've asked time and again, "Was Ana-Lucia written for MR or was MR cast for Ana-Lucia?" If you believe the spoilers leading up to S2, you have to think that Ana-Lucia was written for MR and keeping that in mind, she's done wonderfully.

Does re-writing happen in LOST? Absolutely. The character of Jack was supposed to die/be killed in Pilot but after casting Matthew Fox, they re-wrote it to where the literal pilot of Oceanic 815 died instead. That said, re-writing the character of Ana-Lucia isn't that much of a surprise, but even I will be first in line to say that it could have been done better, as with most of the writing in S2, but that's an entirely different discussion. :)

[Khan]

YES.... thats it entirely. It isn't the itty bitty-ness, it's the bra-less skanky 6 pack of beer trailor park-ishness that she exudes. Check the luggage!! Someone must have a bra you can wear.. (and a fresh shirt that doesn't show off your pointy nipples)
Sun has equally itty titties... but she looks like a class act all the time. :thumbs_up
Hey what wrong with braless,I don't even own one of those hellish strait jackets,my girls are free spirits and point when they feel like it.:D

[PhantomPhase]

Hey, I represent that remark. :) Yeah, I do have an obsession, sick is in the eye of beholder I guess. ;)

Yeah, but I think you know what I mean. For every celebrity there are people who are big fans and then there are those that take it to an unhealthy extreme.

[PhantomPhase]

Could they have found someone else better? Maybe. Remember the spoilers leading into S2? Ana-Lucia was supposed to be an older character, something MR couldn't have done. That goes back to a question I've asked time and again, "Was Ana-Lucia written for MR or was MR cast for Ana-Lucia?" If you believe the spoilers leading up to S2, you have to think that Ana-Lucia was written for MR and keeping that in mind, she's done wonderfully.


I wondered about that myself, if they had cast Rosario Dawson instead of MR, would Ana preturb me as much, the answer, yes, but not as much. I think you and I both agree that if they had tempered the character and not slammed us over the head with her, many people would be more inclined to give the character some slack in regards to her behavior.

[Khan]

Except for two main points I think another actress would have made her a great character.
I like Rosario Dawson,but could she carry it? I've only seen her in one movie so I can't judge that one.
Sticking to the original idea of making her older would have changed the dynamic immensely.She would be in Danielle or Lockes age bracket,I wonder what they would have planned for her without the romantic angle they went with.In the end they probably wanted to get more male viewers with a younger woman.
When they hired her it seems as though they wrote the role to suit her persona as they did with other cast members.

[Brian]

Yeah, but I think you know what I mean. For every celebrity there are people who are big fans and then there are those that take it to an unhealthy extreme.
I absolutely agree, PP!

[NokomisIsABadRobot]

Hey what wrong with braless,I don't even own one of those hellish strait jackets,my girls are free spirits and point when they feel like it.
__________________

I dunno..... there's just something skaggy about Anal's breastessess. They aren't even round. Just nipples hanging too low. Like my great great grandmammy's. :scared:

I tried the braless thing up til I was about 11. Ann Landers said, if you put a pencil under your boobs and it stays there...you need a bra. Hell, I could do jumping jacks without the pencil falling. :tired:

So in the end...
I dont like her looks...
I dont like her look..(snear)
I dont think she can act..
I dont like the part they wrote for her..
I dont like her personality..
and I dont like that they beat me over the head with her the entire first half of this season.

If this was their idea of creating an interesting love quadrangle for J/S and K.. it would have been just as exciting had they cast Hurley's Mom.

[Khan]

Can't hold the pencil with 'em.
I never noticed that she didn't wear one or had granny boobies. In fact I don't know what her body looks like.*shrugs*I guess I just avoid really looking at her when she's on screen,I can't get past that sneering attitude and annoying voice.

[PhantomPhase]

Ok, as far as Ana's chest is concerned, I myself haven't noticed anything other than she has a hairy, manly chest. But Khan and Noko I may have to come over to your places later tonight and inspect the variables more closely in order to pass a fair and accurate judgement on your debate. :D

[Brian]

Ok, as far as Ana's chest is concerned, I myself haven't noticed anything other than she has a hairy, manly chest.
Oh really now? I tend to disagree ;):

http://img316.imageshack.us/img316/4374/08884michellerodriguez0ze.jpg

[NokomisIsABadRobot]

Leuthen....

betcha miss the snear conversations now doncha?? :nanabobo:

[Brian]

Leuthen....

betcha miss the snear conversations now doncha?? :nanabobo:
:rotfl: Yeah, you have a point there. :)

Oh, for the record, I know I blurred the lines there between actress and character by posting that pic, but I thought it was rather relevant to the point I was trying to make. ;)

[NokomisIsABadRobot]

Actually it did.... it made our point well. The gap between her umm breasts? is wider than Vin D's. In fact,.... it kinda resembles it. :nanabobo:

[Brian]

Well, in Vin's case, they aren't breasts....they're pecs. lol :) And for the record, I have every movie he's ever made (with the exception of the 2 indies he made early in his career). No wonder I loved him and MR in TFATF! :)

[NokomisIsABadRobot]

Well, in Vin's case, they aren't breasts....they're pecs. lol

THATS IT!!!

[Khan]

Has anyone noticed for the last eight or nine posts we've been discussing boobies,hers,Vins or our own?
Of all the reasons for her addition to the show I never thought boobies would be discussed in such detail.
Oh well,at least it's peaceful,those of us who have them are happy and those you who don't have something to watch.
For once we're all satisfied,relish the moment,it can't last.

[PhantomPhase]

For the record Khan, I've never been a boob man in particular, it's more who they are connected to that counts with me. Damn, I'll probably be in dutch with the union now, but hey, I'm used to being odd man out.

[Khan]

You may be out of the union,but I for one never bother with a man whose attention is focused too far...damn how do I say this? Whose focus is in the wrong...damn.

[NokomisIsABadRobot]

Has anyone noticed for the last eight or nine posts we've been discussing boobies,hers,Vins or our own?

Actually, we talked about Sun's boobies too. :p

Anyways..... blame it on Leuthen. He's the one who challenged us to come up with something other than the ''snear''.
Be careful what you wish for Leuth. :nanabobo:

[Brian]

Anyways..... blame it on Leuthen. He's the one who challenged us to come up with something other than the ''snear''.
Be careful what you wish for Leuth. :nanabobo:
Hey, I have broad shoulders, put the blame on me all you want. :)

[Khan]

It's just a sneaky attempt to get us off her case. Next thing you know someone will post there's sweaty Sawyer or Jack (what ever your taste may be) running around the boards just to get us to go look for him.:D

[PhantomPhase]

Oh really now? I tend to disagree ;):
Ana Pic


Nope, sorry, don't see it. :confused:

[Brian]

Nope, sorry, don't see it. :confused:
Ah well, it was worth a try I guess. ;)

[PhantomPhase]

Ah well, it was worth a try I guess. ;)

I guess she's hot if she's your type Leuthen, but I'm picky in that regard. Just be careful or you may go blind with that photo. :rolleyes:

[Warthawg1]

You all know I am no fan of Michelle, but she is very doable imho.....I mean ya know....if you had some duct tape; the assurance you could leave afterwards without waking her up, and with her thinking your name was Leuthen.

[Mattie]

"Why as Ana-Lucia added?"

Because Ian Somerhalder and Maggie Grace were subtracted.

SOLVED! Next question.

[Warthawg1]

"Why as Ana-Lucia added?"

Because Ian Somerhalder and Maggie Grace were subtracted.

Can we get someone to redo the math?

[Mattie]

No. My word = finality.

[boonian androphile]

That's too bad. Ian and Maggie are the looks royal couple. Especially Ian :D

[Warthawg1]

The looks royal couple?

Does not compute. The words looks and royal couple just seem out of place together.

[boonian androphile]

Maggie and Ian possess a superior and separate genetic make-up. By and large royalty tends more to a lack of attractiveness and a propensity towards in-breeding. I see your point, Wart. Of course I could be way off. Note Prince Charles, for example. He had two women wanting him.

[DohBoy]

Women? I thought those were his ears.

[Brian]

You all know I am no fan of Michelle, but she is very doable imho.....I mean ya know....if you had some duct tape; the assurance you could leave afterwards without waking her up, and with her thinking your name was Leuthen.

Well, she's definitely not wolf-ugly. You know, the one where you'd rather chew your arm off the next morning rather than waking her when you pull your arm out from under her as you leave. ;)

Oh, and PP, yes, I think she's hot! :)

Women? I thought those were his ears.
Hell, I thought one was a horse. ;)

[Warthawg1]

I thought that was coyote ugly.

No she isn't that by any means. Give me some duct tape...I'll tell her my name is Leuthen.... and it's a done deal.

[Brian]

I thought that was coyote ugly.
You're quite right, sorry, I couldn't think of the correct term last night. I stand corrected.

*passes Warty the duct tape* Be nice. ;)

[Khan]

I know you guys need the duct tape for personal reasons with her,but I sure wish they'd use it on the show once in awhile,she might be more tolerable if that expression was covered up .

[NokomisIsABadRobot]

yea, taping up her pie hole would be a 100% improvment.


However...

she could also use the duct tape to pull her boobies up where they belong. Or tape them together or something.

[Warthawg1]

I know you guys need the duct tape for personal reasons with her,but I sure wish they'd use it on the show once in awhile,she might be more tolerable if that expression was covered up

My personal reasons and your desire for using it on the show... two sides of the same coin.

[wickedsweet]

She'd probably chew through the duck tape anyway.

[Warthawg1]

Chew through the duct tape huh? Ok.. I didn't want to go this far, but drastic times call for drastic measures. There is only one other alternative....

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y23/Warthawg1/mankind.jpg

That's right people....

It's time for Mr. Socko and the mandible claw.

[Khan]

Mick! I haven't seen him in a while. Well,actually it's the other half of the one time Rock and Sock connection I notice anyway.

[PhantomPhase]

I think Ana may have been added so that Cousin Eddie and I would have plenty of goof on material. It's amazing how I keep stumbling across pics of her that can be tailored for goofiness.

[wickedsweet]

Chew through the duct tape huh? Ok.. I didn't want to go this far, but drastic times call for drastic measures. There is only one other alternative....

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y23/Warthawg1/mankind.jpg

That's right people....

It's time for Mr. Socko and the mandible claw.


Wow, I don't know if anyone deserves that but if anyone does Ana gets my vote. :D

(:naughty: Anyone else hoping we'll be coming here for an Ana memorial later?:crossfing )

[Khan]

The title of this thread is Why Was Ana-Lucia Added,well it's pretty obvious,she was added to get back at all the fans who ever posted or said anything about TPTB. In other words,she's added to be the pain that she is to most viewers.

[Fish1941]

The title of this thread is Why Was Ana-Lucia Added,well it's pretty obvious,she was added to get back at all the fans who ever posted or said anything about TPTB. In other words,she's added to be the pain that she is to most viewers.

I'd like to proudly list myself as not one of the "most viewers". Although I wouldn't mind adding my name to a Hate Kate list.

[wickedsweet]

Fish1941
Although I wouldn't mind adding my name to a Hate Kate list.

What? You hate Kate? Do you know what that says about you? Just kidding:D

[PhantomPhase]

I'd like to proudly list myself as not one of the "most viewers". Although I wouldn't mind adding my name to a Hate Kate list.

You are free to start a Kate Hate Fan Club Fish1941. You have that right, though I would expect some stiff opposition from some of her more devoted fan base.

[wickedsweet]

I like Kate but feel free to slag away on her, I wouldn't care. Heck you could even call JH ugly (all the more JH for me)

[Khan]

The Ugly Sawyer And Kate Sociopath Hate Club? Why not kill two birds with one stone.

[Khan]

At least the babies won't learn how to torture and grow up to be little dictators who use every tragic event event in thier lives as an excuse for being nasty as hell.

[PhantomPhase]

No, they'll just kill tons of innocent people for selfish reasons to obtain trinkets and herilooms and personal belongings b/c they are completely unstable, manipulative, and never grew up. :)

Uh-Oh, someones getting into the time honored tradition of character bashing. Isn't that crossing the line?

[NokomisIsABadRobot]

I HATED Kate.........


until the ''other 48 days'' aired.

Now she's my hero.

[Khan]

Uh-Oh, someones getting into the time honored tradition of character bashing. Isn't that crossing the line?
Where are those damn lines? Please somebody draw a map, oh I forgot,it doesn't count when it's Kate or Sawyer. No lines there bash away.
UHH except this isn't thier threads so I guess we'll just have to get back on topic.
Why was she added? To annoy the hell out of everyone who's ever bashed TPTB.

[Shardyk]

I HATED Kate.........


until the ''other 48 days'' aired.

Now she's my hero.

Kate or Ana Lucia??

[DohBoy]

Uh-Oh, someones getting into the time honored tradition of character bashing. Isn't that crossing the line?
I'm still confused as to when Leigh was upset at the character-bashing so much as the person-bashing. Pretty sure the "crossing the line" had to do with bashing the person, not the character.

[PhantomPhase]

Either way DohBoy, I don't think it matters much. You and Leigh are obviously sensitive to the actresses feelings, me, I say she's on a hit show, and she makes more per ep than most people make in a year. If I was in her shoes, people could say whatever they want about me and I would laugh all the way to the bank. I used to worship the great Jimmy Page, lead guitarist of Led Zeppelin, and I would freak at any insult directed at him. Then it dawned on me when I saw him live in concert - I was close enough to the stage to touch his shoe, Jimmy Page couldn't give a crap about me, whether I'm dead or alive, whether I'm rich or poor, nothing. He's living high on the hog from the money I spent on his concert tickets and cd's.I still like his music, but worship a celebrity, never again.

And besides, the line that has been spoken of is only exists in Leighs mind. None of us has an obligation to honor her self imposed forum rules.

[Fish1941]

I HATED Kate.........


until the ''other 48 days'' aired.

Now she's my hero.

I don't hate Kate.

I just dislike her intensely. I find her manipulative and immature. Watching her tell Jack that she was glad that he had beaten Sawyer at poker made my stomach turn. She came off as a thirteen year-old.

I'm still confused as to when Leigh was upset at the character-bashing so much as the person-bashing. Pretty sure the "crossing the line" had to do with bashing the person, not the character.

It was more the person bashing.

[Brian]

None of us has an obligation to honor her self imposed forum rules.
The only forum rules that matter, are the ones that we, the admin staff ,impose. First on that list is what you all see myself and others refer to as, "The Golden Rule". That is, attack the post, NOT the poster. Period. If you want to rip apart someone's post, fine. But do it in a way that does not go after the poster personally (i.e. "You're an idiot.....", "You just think......", and many others). This rule applies to everyone, myself included. Please keep that in mind as things have gotten a little ugly around here lately on all sides.

Personal attacks do nothing but incite more of the same and they devolve any rational discussion thread. You all know that. If anyone has a problem with someone attacking them here in this forum, don't respond, tell me. That's my job and why I am here. This is probably the most volatile character forum on the board, and I don't have a problem with that as long as things stay civil.

I now return you to your regularly scheduled debate.

Oh - for the record, character bashing is what most of us do best around here. I do it with Charlie, but I always keep it civil. I never go after the person making the comments, just the comments themselves. Thanks all! :)

[PhantomPhase]

I wasn't argueing Brian. I was only saying that we honor the forum rules, not Leigh's.

[Brian]

I understand. I was just kinda throwing a gentle, all around, reminder out there. :)

[wickedsweet]

Leuthen said
The only forum rules that matter, are the ones that we, the admin staff ,impose.

You know things would run alot more smoothly around here if we just made it all about me.:p :D

[Khan]

Why was AL added? Because TPTB have absolutley no clue as to what the public finds entertaining.
The seemed to have stumbled blindly into a successful show and have proceeded almost destroy what they never understood caused it's popularity in the first place.

[Brian]

You know things would run alot more smoothly around here if we just made it all about me.:p :D
You may be on to something there, ws. :)

[Mikefuzz]

People dislike her because of the character she plays, they try to blame the actress because they don't want to admit they are intimidated by such a strong and indipendant woman. Michelle Rodriguez has always played strong, somewhat butch women in almost all of her rolls on tv and in movies. People like Kate alot more, because even though she is strong and indipendant, she still has some girl qualities. Ana-Lucia has very few, I think in future episodes Ana-Lucia's character will be explained alot more in alot more detail. Then, people will begin to understand there is a person beneath that rough exterior.

[sarelisheaq]

Another one, eh? If you really wish to know why people don't like her and/or her character, I suggest you read their prospective posts. They'll kindly inform you, and then you needn't speculate.


Originally posted by Mikefuzz
I think in future episodes Ana-Lucia's character will be explained alot more in alot more detail... people will begin to understand there is a person beneath that rough exterior

Until then, shall I take your word for it and compliment her on a truly dismal performance... and congratulate her for demonstrating strength and independence in putting the cops in their place following what I was told to consider an insignificant lapse of judgement... repeatedly?

Care to elaborate on the rest, because I (mis) interpreted your use of the term "girl qualities" to mean lacking "strength and indipendance" and the latter as being somehow synonymous with "butch"? Needless to say, this damsel is in distress.

p.s. I can tell you from experience that the theory of women being inferior and intimidated by men (or by women - fictitious nonetheless - with stereotypically manly characteristics who can therefore be respected as actual men) *bursts bubble* is not so much substantiated fact as a wet dream...;)

[Khan]

People dislike her because of the character she plays, they try to blame the actress because they don't want to admit they are intimidated by such a strong and indipendant woman. Michelle Rodriguez has always played strong, somewhat butch women in almost all of her rolls on tv and in movies. People like Kate alot more, because even though she is strong and indipendant, she still has some girl qualities. Ana-Lucia has very few, I think in future episodes Ana-Lucia's character will be explained alot more in alot more detail. Then, people will begin to understand there is a person beneath that rough exterior.
That doesn't hold true for me since I'm strong and damn independant too.
I have never liked the word "butch" because it's applied to any woman who doesn't play silly girly games, which I do not.
I like the original Kate more because she was far more independant than the wimpy creature chasing after Jackass.
I dislike MRs acting if you can call it that. I love tough, but dispise with a passion "punk", there is a big difference.
AL as a character is someone I've come to wish had been more of what TPTB were aiming for,that person would have easily become one of my favorites. It would be hypocritical of me to hate rough exteriors,since I can be not the nicest person at times myself to say the least. So always find it laughable that anyone would say my dislike was rooted in any of the things you mentioned.

[Mikefuzz]

That doesn't hold true for me since I'm strong and damn independant too.
I have never liked the word "butch" because it's applied to any woman who doesn't play silly girly games, which I do not.
I like the original Kate more because she was far more independant than the wimpy creature chasing after Jackass.
I dislike MRs acting if you can call it that. I love tough, but dispise with a passion "punk", there is a big difference.
AL as a character is someone I've come to wish had been more of what TPTB were aiming for,that person would have easily become one of my favorites. It would be hypocritical of me to hate rough exteriors,since I can be not the nicest person at times myself to say the least. So always find it laughable that anyone would say my dislike was rooted in any of the things you mentioned.

Another one, eh? If you really wish to know why people don't like her and/or her character, I suggest you read their prospective posts. They'll kindly inform you, and then you needn't speculate.


Until then, shall I take your word for it and compliment her on a truly dismal performance... and congratulate her for demonstrating strength and independence in putting the cops in their place following what I was told to consider an insignificant lapse of judgement... repeatedly?

Care to elaborate on the rest, because I (mis) interpreted your use of the term "girl qualities" to mean lacking "strength and indipendance" and the latter as being somehow synonymous with "butch"? Needless to say, this damsel is in distress..

Well... I was using "butch" in the sense that she isn't one of those stay at home parents who bake cakes and clean the house. She is a cop or a hardass.. in almost /all/ of her movies or tv shows. People don't like her because the other people on the island dont like her, and when they start to, the people who watch the show will as well... You see where I'm going with this ? Some people love Kate, Ana-Lucia threatens Kates smug position being able to choose between Jack & Saywer when she feels like it, if Ana-Lucia were to "take" Jack away from Kate, everyone would be complaining of what a relationship-ruiner she is. She lost her baby because someone shot her in the chest, she let them shoot her in the chest & she blames herself for losing her baby. Thats why her character is so bitter & indipendant. She doesn't rely on others, like Kate who is forever running off to Jack or Sawyer for help with one thing or another. We all have opinions, and this is my take on the Ana-Lucia Michelle Rodriguez situation.

[Sawyer'sBaby'sMomma]

I think she does a decent job. She's not the best, not the worst, not my favorite or my least favorite. 'Nuff said.

[Khan]

Well... I was using "butch" in the sense that she isn't one of those stay at home parents who bake cakes and clean the house. She is a cop or a hardass.. in almost /all/ of her movies or tv shows. I understand,but still it's an offensive word.There aren't many words to descibe females who aren't "girly" without being offensive. Nearly everyone of them have some negative connatation or imply they are gay. I don't fault her for playing the same type over and over. Didn't John Wayne and most of those early stars do the same thing? I do not like the way she plays that type of character or her attitude outside of the roles. IMO her acting is terrible,compounding the problem for me. But I know it's not that way for everyone, there are movies and actors I love and people rip them to sheds.
People don't like her because the other people on the island dont like her, and when they start to, the people who watch the show will as well... You see where I'm going with this ? Some people love Kate, Ana-Lucia threatens Kates smug position being able to choose between Jack & Saywer when she feels like it, if Ana-Lucia were to "take" Jack away from Kate, everyone would be complaining of what a relationship-ruiner she is.
It would be amazing if someone dislikes AL because the other imaginary people dislike her. I think it goes deeper than that, she's rubbed the majority of viewers the wrong way,and I don't think that many people are just plain stupid.
I do see your point with the shippers though.Some of them are going to be unhappy no matter what, unless Kate gets both men. Hmmm, well men have been doing it for ages, and in some cultures it was the norm for a woman to have more than one man.........

She lost her baby because someone shot her in the chest, she let them shoot her in the chest & she blames herself for losing her baby. Thats why her character is so bitter & indipendant. She doesn't rely on others, like Kate who is forever running off to Jack or Sawyer for help with one thing or another. We all have opinions, and this is my take on the Ana-Lucia Michelle Rodriguez situation.
I think Kate,who was more independant, was sacrificed this year for AL. Most of the S1 characters had sudden unexplained personality shifts. But that's another story.
AL's actions can't be merely wiped away by her horrible loss, people have had thier whole families die and do not prance around as though the whole world must bow to thier every wish or be hurt for not kissing thier a$$es. Much of it goes back to the street punk persona she perpetually carries. There is no excuse for some of the things TPTB wrote,and then tried to fix them in such an obvious insulting way.Most viewers didn't buy the " now you HAVE to feel sorry for her" episode, it only made matters worse.

[PhantomPhase]

Maybe it's just that they introduced a really abrassive character, and alot of people just don't like her, while a small but significant group do like her.

[Khan]

True, PP but it's clear from thier interviews they expect this character to be loved in time like Sawyer. Like him or hate him, he's still one of most popular characters among viewers,because the actor invested him with something other than being hateful. MR can't do that,she has no clue how to go about playing anything other than punk.

The writing on Lost, along with the exceptional characters made me think those guys who created all the show actually knew what they were doing. Now, after listening to thier interviews, I can't help but wonder if they just fell into a hit in spite of themselves. They are so out of touch with what has made the show such a success, it's no longer surprising that they would do the dumbass things they've done this year.
They seem to have Paris Hilton syndrome, as long as someone is "hot",they can write anything and the fans will eat it up and beg for more. They are acting as though all of us are getting off on whatever gets thier juices going.

They are too adolescent in thier view of what a leader is, maybe they are too influenced by grade D movies where the hero is a caricature, and came up with Jack. Or perhaps they have a secret love of nearly every bad pimp characterization in movies or on TV, so now we have AL. These two are thier favorites and the really well thought out, deeper characters are only thrown a bone every now and then; probably because they have to or piss off ABC.
They remind me of Beavis and Butthead, with an education,wasting what is enormous potential by staying willful, foolish and silly as hell. It's their show and the fans will like it who they like damn it or....they'll hold thier breath?
I reality they'll just run it into the ground and sit around wailing "What happened".

[PhantomPhase]

True, I haven't really read what the writers and producers have had to say about Ana. But I will say that it's not the first time producers and writers have hurt a show with decisions that go against the grain of what the viewers want.

[LoStMyMiNd]

MikeFuzz you have made a lot of broad blanket statements and generalities. Not everyone dislikes AL and MR for the same reasons. You might want to read why before making these statements

LOL....I find it interesting too, that you consider stay at home moms people that bake cakes and clean the house all day....lol

[Khan]

True, I haven't really read what the writers and producers have had to say about Ana. But I will say that it's not the first time producers and writers have hurt a show with decisions that go against the grain of what the viewers want.
That is something that is consistant with them. They seem to think the viewers are either rabid shippers or mystery crazed.
They made a cryptic remark halfway through the season about getting back to basics, then suddenly we got episodes that showed more of the regulars,even if only for a moment. Characters started to seem more like who they were in S1. Since each show is only hours or a few days at most from the last show, the personality changes in the first half of S2 made absolutely no sense. Something woke them up to the fact we're all not fascinated by the hatch. It's the actors that make the show,without them the plot is useless, but they have a real blindspot in that regard.
In ALs case they pulled back on her when thier little "pity me" ploy didn't work. Which I think is going to happen again, the brats must have thier way, and whatever idiot executive at ABC in charge of them must have thier head in the sand or is thier very best buddy.
Since the character was most likely tailored to fit MR, they are now stuck with an irritating medicore mess, instead of someone who could have been one of the best on Lost.

[PhantomPhase]

Well, the next time I party with the cast I'll mention it to them. You ain't seen nothing til you've seen Jorge Garcia play Twister. Is tonights episode supposed to be Ana-Centric?

[Khan]

I'm not sure, I've noticed they hold back on showing how much she's going to be in an episode. The ratings are already dropping they may be smart enough not let the viewers know they will have to put up with more than one shot of the nasty gnome.

[PhantomPhase]

I don't know, I'm not crazy about the fact that there is going to be a Rose and Bernard centric ep soon let alone another Ana. I think Sawyer and Locke have the best flashbacks. It may seem close minded of me, but I really don't care about Ana's, Rose's, Bernards, or even Eko's past for that matter. At this point, I'm tired of new faces, and I wish more attention was placed on the mysterious pasts of the Season 1 cast.

[NokomisIsABadRobot]

At this point, I'm tired of new faces, and I wish more attention was placed on the mysterious pasts of the Season 1 cast.

100 % agree!!
I think tonights the Bore-nard and Pose centric one isnt it??

whoooooooopie:rolleyez:

[Darko]

People dislike her because of the character she plays, they try to blame the actress because they don't want to admit they are intimidated by such a strong and indipendant woman. Michelle Rodriguez has always played strong, somewhat butch women in almost all of her rolls on tv and in movies. People like Kate alot more, because even though she is strong and indipendant, she still has some girl qualities. Ana-Lucia has very few, I think in future episodes Ana-Lucia's character will be explained alot more in alot more detail. Then, people will begin to understand there is a person beneath that rough exterior.

I hate both. And I'm not intimidated by a character on a TV show. Sooo what do I ring up in all this?

[Mikefuzz]

I was just reffering to the majority of stay at home mothers. Like I said, this is just my opinion on why people dislike her character so much. I very much resent the comment you made about the word butch, i was in no way trying to imply that she is gay. I agree with the Lost writers thinking they can get anyone who is hot and just make them whatever they want and expect people to love the character. This isn't the 8th grade...

[Khan]

Perhaps you misunderstood my comment about people, not you, using the word butch with the connatation of being gay. I can't be sure, but I believe that was its original meaning ,and is still used widely in that sense.
Maybe one of the gay posters will weigh in and clarify the issue for us.
I also was not implying you thought AL was gay, I was merely expressing my offense at the word being used to describe any woman who has a strong,independant personality.

[sarelisheaq]

"Butch" originally referred to a haircut, then a masculine appearance, then lesbians, and apparently is now used as an (insulting) reference to women.

To be fair, Mikefuzz, (and redundant) I know you didn’t mean to be insulting, and your theory is shared by at least a few people, and is fine. Someone kept quoting an article awhile back that basically had the same idea. The reason it doesn’t make sense to me and I keep attacking is that in order to believe it, I’d have to assume something else: Namely, that women are by nature, housecleaners who bake cakes, are weak, codependent and defined by men, etc. Since nothing similar to that description applies to most women (stay-at-home moms included, perhaps) real or on Lost, it seems silly to believe it, ya know?

I guess what I’m trying to say is unless there really is something wrong with being a woman (something we can’t quite put our finger on without offending people since maybe it isn’t based so much on fact as urban myth), why on earth be impressed by someone simply because she doesn’t physically look feminine? If I looked like a man, would I really be any stronger or more independent? Nope, it would be purely superficial, but I bet some people would believe it rather than insulting me. The difference is they do tend to get more respect from some people.:)

[LoStMyMiNd]

[QUOTE=Mikefuzz]I was just reffering to the majority of stay at home mothers.




*****Well maybe your mother did those things, but mine certainly didn't. I don't know if you realize it, but you have just put down a whole bunch of smart intelligent women who want to stay home to raise their children, the majority of which do not bake all day or clean the house

**************



Like I said, this is just my opinion on why people dislike her character so much. I very much resent the comment you made about the word butch, i was in no way trying to imply that she is gay.


*****I think you used the wrong word, MikeFuzz. Maybe you should have wrote "strong" as opposed to "butch". I do understand what you were trying to say, so there is no need to defend yourself further.

**************

[Brian]

Just thought I'd throw this out there for everyone. I know some like Ana and some don't. That's cool. However, for all of her detractors out there, I thought you'd like to read this post by KF2 (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=507771&postcount=117). I think it says exactly what most of you have been saying for a while.

Oh, and for the record, I agreed with him completely. (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=509820&postcount=120)