Black Smoke on The Hunting Party [Archive]

jjlynn

01-12-06, 04:28 AM

[quote=Long Sufferer]What do we know about the smoke?

Here are some assumptions:

It seems metallic and/or electric
It seemed to have eyes and hands
It seemed to be analyzing Mr. Eko
It completely ignored Charlie
It once analyzed Locke
It once 'attacked' Locke
It knocks down trees
It shoots out of the ground with an explosion
It flies silently through the air
It is approximately 20' long
It looks like smokeWhat else?[/Also, if you slow down the show and hit one frame at a time you can see different parts of Eko's life in the smoke. I saw the old man he shot, his brother, the church, a crucifix and some others.
quote]

jjlynn

01-12-06, 04:29 AM

Did anyone else see Eko's life flashing in the smoke? The smoke also seems to be able to read minds or know the person's secrets.

Sorry if I am screwing this up, this is my first time.

*Saint*

01-12-06, 05:18 AM

Is that what the images were? Do you have a screen cap of those???

That would almost coincide with the theory that the island has something to do with each survivors flashbacks...

FanFiltration

01-12-06, 05:19 AM

Did anyone else see Eko's life flashing in the smoke? The smoke also seems to be able to read minds or know the person's secrets.

Sorry if I am screwing this up, this is my first time.

I saw it too! Is the smoke another part of DHARMA? Could people in another bunker be using / remote controlling it? Was "The Smoke" one of the 6 projects?

I believe now that when the smoke took Locke at the end of season one, he was right, it was not going to hurt him. The Smoke comes from the ground, so it could have been taking him someplace. Down to a bunker?

FF

dzukunft

01-12-06, 05:20 AM

Is anyone else a little bummed that (a) we now have seen the monster and (b) that the special effect was more than a little lacking? I guess I just got used to not knowing. On the bright side, we still don't fully understand how the monster works (i.e. able to read the memories of those with whom it comes into contact).

Good work on noticing the different images from Eko's life!

kiwipat

01-12-06, 05:53 AM

If you want to see screencaps of the "images in the smoke" check out cubit's at:

http://lost.cubit.net/pics/2x10/

FanFiltration

01-12-06, 06:19 AM

If you want to see screencaps of the "images in the smoke" check out cubit's at:

http://lost.cubit.net/pics/2x10/

WOW!!!

Thank you for this.

chaos28

01-12-06, 06:43 AM

Unicornasaurus

01-12-06, 06:47 AM

Okay, here's a question. If the Security System only seems to go after people, what the hell was it doing in the first episode when they heard it messing up trees? And is there more than one System? Don't forget we heard it coming from two directions.

Also, I think it's safe to say now that the familiar noise Rose heard sounded something like a cash-register or something along those lines.
It could've been going after Danielle.

My mom had an interesting speculation. What if it only attacks people with weapons? As far as I can recall, it tries to attack people with weapons, or groups of people that have a weapon with them. I'm guessing it didn't attack Mr.Eko because he just had a stick, and not a gun.

Also, a couple more things.
It looks like it's about 20 feet long, but it could be more like 10 feet long, and leaving 10 feet of smoke that disappears.
As for the tree's, what happens to them? We just see them get ripped up and that's about it, you never see them land or anything.

BooneWasABoar

01-12-06, 08:48 AM

Seems to me that the smoke is somehow looking into the past or the minds of the people, based on that perhaps that is how it decides to act.

I dunno if i even buy it.

plokij

01-12-06, 10:26 AM

What do we know about the smoke?

Here are some assumptions:

It seems metallic and/or electric
It seemed to have eyes and hands
It seemed to be analyzing Mr. Eko
It completely ignored Charlie
It once analyzed Locke
It once 'attacked' Locke
It knocks down trees
It shoots out of the ground with an explosion
It flies silently through the air
It is approximately 20' long
It looks like smokeWhat else?

"It once 'attacked' Locke"

Not really. It was doing what it usually does by knocking down trees, and when Locke was 'attacked', all that was happening was he was falling into a hole made by it.

Trents

01-12-06, 10:39 AM

"It once 'attacked' Locke"

Not really. It was doing what it usually does by knocking down trees, and when Locke was 'attacked', all that was happening was he was falling into a hole made by it.

I'm sure Locke was dragged along the ground for a bit then down the hole rather than just fall down the hole.

The artist formerly known

01-12-06, 10:42 AM

As I see it the smoke has the power to confront people and make them see the people in their past that they have either turned their back on or hurt in some way. Ecko turned his back on jesus his brother his family, etc.

igator210

01-12-06, 11:11 AM

After slow-mo, I came up with atleast 11 and possible 12 images with-in the smoke.

Kud-Dukan

01-12-06, 11:23 AM

What makes the "black smoke" even more interesting is the fact that I've seen parts of the first seasons episodes that made me think that the "monster" is more physical than just a cloud of black smoke. I distinctly remember in Exodus Pt 1, when Hurely and Locke just stand there while the others run, hearing the "monster" "walking" away. In Exodus Pt2, I remember hearing the sound of chains before Locke was grabbed...

plokij

01-12-06, 12:06 PM

what confuses me the most is that TPTB said that everything on the show is scientifically based.....

NokomisIsABadRobot

01-12-06, 12:53 PM

The real question is...
Does the smoke show you your past?? Or is it taking pictures of your past from you?

I still think there are two (or more) muuunsters. A big hulking one, and the wispy smoke. We definately got the muuunster from both sides of the beach the first night. And the stomping footsteps can't be made by smoke. I hope the writers dont forget that they had all the actors whip their heads back and forth from left to right while looking for the muuunster based on the stomping noises it was making. To have it turn out to be one munster and it's smoke is disappointing for me, but I hold out hope that this isn't all thats out there.

Steeevil

01-12-06, 12:57 PM

FINALLY we get to see the 'monster' CLEARLY...and it is an AIRBORNE serpentine-undulating tendril of mostly amorphous 'particulate'-appearing BLACK 'SMOKE'.

HMMMMMMMMMM...

Some of you may remember I speculated wayyyy back that it COULD be a COLONY INTELLIGENCE of 'SMART DUST' type NANOBOTS...what we saw tonight BEHAVED exactly as that would...and the BLACK colour of the particulates in the 'smoke' could indicate CARBON construction - perhaps graphite/diamond 'nano-pseudolife' which could have very interesting implications for the 'Skinner Box' purposes of the Countdown Computer in the Bunker given the Hanso Foundation's [thehansofoundation.org] interest in advanced ELECTROMAGNETIC research eh?

RoseArienh

01-12-06, 01:36 PM

Maybe the smoke does not have to read minds. Maybe the smoke has been programmed by people who know what has happened to certain survivors in the past.

Ida Monster

01-12-06, 02:01 PM

(Cross posting from S2E10 thread)

The following is just an opinion. I'm not going to argue wheter I'm right or wrong.. I'm just throwing it out there.

Black cloud: Sentient or non-sentient?

One theory I summise is that the black cloud, or "monster" is not sentient, but actually is a cloud of iron dust. The iron dust is released from caverns or naturally formed lava tubes when a breach is made, such as when the weight of a large tree breaks through a weakened surface crust.

Cloud movement.

The dust cloud appears to move in a sentient way, but this could be explained as the result of magnetically charged metal simply 'following' magnetic waves.

Visions in the clouds.

The images we see in the cloud is what Eko is thinking about at the moment from his perspective. It's not capturing or scanning his thoughts or memories and projecting them. It's merely acting as a blank screen or Rorschach test. His thoughts were not fearful, therefore he had no reason to be afraid. Same thing with Locke when he supposedly saw this same cloud the first tme. The second time he encountered it, he had some anxiety. As Hurley would say, it has to do with "transference".

That's all I'm going with now.. I'm going to check the old theories for this theme and post about this in more detail over there if necessary.
__________________

azteclady

01-12-06, 02:13 PM

I suggest that for speculation on the nature of the monster, and its apparent dual nature, you guys check a couple of threads over at T&S, such as
ChanceGardener's Doubly delicious (http://69.16.199.222/%7Elosttv/forum/showthread.php?t=7524) - though I know it's not the only one. Then there's OneHurleyNation's Nanobots (http://69.16.199.222/%7Elosttv/forum/showthread.php?t=7476) thread. Cool stuff.

LoStObSeSsEd

01-12-06, 02:44 PM

rvturnage

01-12-06, 03:40 PM

I know this theory is not the most populart, but the "monster" is completely made up of Flappy Black Crap, otherwise known as FBC. FBC has been responsible (some say) for many things on the island. I don't have a link to the threads that discuss this, but I'm sure it can be found in Theories.

sorry, but nope. FBC in regards to the crash has been shot down bt TPTB. There was no smoke of FBC in the early episodes:

http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=31254

http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=31301

rt

Mahavishnu

01-12-06, 03:58 PM

Hi all, im new.

I still think (though am not convinced) that there are 2 monsters, one "good" and one "bad". To me it seems that the smoke is the "good" one, that it somehow tries to protect the people from the other monster. The only hints to this i can find so far is that somehow locke just knew that he was going to be ok if he was pulled into that hole, and eko said he didnt know what it was, but for whatever reason, he wasnt afraid of it. This could all be me overthinking, but maybe it has some value to it.

juanbong

01-12-06, 04:37 PM

Quoted by Nokomis:
The real question is...
Does the smoke show you your past?? Or is it taking pictures of your past from you?

A very good point indeed and I am starting to think this way as well. After Locke "saw" the eye of the island, he starts to feel like nothing really matters but faith. The imagery within the monster (Eko's brother being shot, the virgin mary statue, Eko shooting the bald guy when he was younger) were all part of Eko's past and if Eko saw these as well, that could be why he wasn't running away from the monster (other than being a bad-ass). With the monster, it seems that it is a far intelligent creature to not just mimic what it "reads", but also keep what it reads in some form of file or memory (fill in your own of how it holds what the monster sees).

pringlelfc

01-12-06, 04:47 PM

I think we got the monsters point of view for a reason. It burst through a tree or vines or whatever it was, meaning that it couldnt simple be a cloud of dust or vapour.

Metal in a Magnetic Atmosphere does take a cloud like appearance. As someone said earlier it could be iron.

Misseelicious

01-12-06, 05:13 PM

The nanobots storyline would be amazing. Thanks for posting those links.

Khan

01-12-06, 06:20 PM

I believe now that when the smoke took Locke at the end of season one, he was right, it was not going to hurt him. The Smoke comes from the ground, so it could have been taking him someplace.
I agree, it wanted Locke alive and was taking him somewhere,but why?

BooneWasABoar

01-12-06, 06:25 PM

This sheds a bit more light on Locke's statement of "Seeing into the eye of the island." I think this backs up the line of thought that the cloud does see into people and somehow then replays those thoughts/memories. Locke's other statment of it being beautiful could aslo mean that he saw into the smoke and perhaps saw Helen or something else from his past he percieved as good.

athywithak

01-12-06, 06:34 PM

"FBC in regards to the crash has been shot down bt TPTB"

I'm in the FBC means not-a-lot camp, but I do have to point out that putting stock in what TPTB say is a road leading to folly!

paulietchka

01-12-06, 06:48 PM

in response to the why the smoke ignored Charlie and Kate, i believe that if the smoke is being somehow controlled, it could be controlled to go after certain people according to the wishes of who is controlling it.

in response to the assumption it only attacks people vs. crushing down trees etc, let's not forget when it blew up one of the engines on the first episode. i don't have a screencap of the image here, but i'm sure it's somewhere in the board.

seems to me that the only two people that it has confronted so far were the ones seeking for redemption of their past mistakes/sins. although the other losties might have major skeletons in their closets, they don't seem willing to deal with those and redempt themselves.

yung23

01-12-06, 06:51 PM

there ARE two systems.

I want to show everyone what I have come up with to explain it.
humor me, you will be surprised.

athywithak

01-12-06, 06:54 PM

Yung did you post this info elsewhere, or just not yet?

Eager to see what you have to say, going over to T&S and the Doubly thread to see if it is there...

K

Khan

01-12-06, 06:56 PM

Are there two? There was a heavy stomping sound last season.
I don't see why it tears up trees advancing but disappears so quietly leaving.
Locke saw something beautiful,then frightening, of course that could be because it's keyed to whatever is going on inside of the person facing it.
But if that's true why kill the pilot? Unless it attacks when theres danger of someone leaving and the pilot was going to use the radio.

CorynnMarie

01-12-06, 08:02 PM

Am I the only person who saw a big cat (tiger, cheetah, leopard) in the smoke last night? It seems no one has captured what I saw - I've looked through several sets of caps. It didn't occur to me that I could be correct or even that it was important until I saw this cap from a past ep this morning:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v146/tulipsntugixi/blacksmoke6phredbox.jpg

Looks like a cheetah to me. Seems a little more significant now.

Does anybody have caps from last night with anything that appears to be a big cat?

Execute108

01-12-06, 09:46 PM

Maybe the smoke told Locke to seek the hatch.

or..

Maybe it tried to pull him into the hole to prevent him from finally opening it.

stinkytojo

01-12-06, 10:00 PM

Well, I never really bought in to the nanobots/nanites thing...until now. It's the only explanation I can make click in my head. But, especially after the encounter with Eko, I feel that there is only one Monster/Security System. I didn't feel like the encounter was some sort of stare down or confrontation. It felt more like the smoke was 'recognizing' Eko to me. I think that if it is a Security System, like Rousseau said, it was making sure that Eko was one of the people who are supposed to be on the island. The thing sure could seem like two different 'monsters' to the guy it accepts and the guy it doesn't and therefore wants to kill. And, obviously, Eko was supposed to be there given that he had two opportunities to end up on the island, so the system was no threat to him. Unlike the pilot who apparently just had the bad luck to be driving the people who are supposed to be there.

Even though this part is making more sense to me, the questions of who and why are still totally beyond me!

Boomfish

01-12-06, 10:11 PM

NokomisIsABadRobot

01-12-06, 10:33 PM

The thing in the picture looks like Gizmo to me..

or Boomfish's avatar.

*Saint*

01-12-06, 10:52 PM

Looks like a cheetah to me. Seems a little more significant now.

To me, it looks more like a fan with blades?? Like the Engine from the plane at the beginning of the Pilot episode.

CorynnMarie

01-12-06, 11:14 PM

To me, it looks more like a fan with blades?? Like the Engine from the plane at the beginning of the Pilot episode.

I can see that...but I still see a cheetah. After putting some more thought into it - if last night's smoke was Eko's memories, perhaps the one in the "cheetah" capture is Locke's past? And this has something to do with the Australian safari (not the word I'm looking for, but it's escaping me) he was supposed to go on? Not that they have cheetahs in Australia. Hmm..I dunno.

*Saint*

01-12-06, 11:35 PM

BUt Locke never made it to the Walkabout (the safari you are talking about...) They would not let him go do to his disability.

Hanover

01-12-06, 11:53 PM

I think it's nanobots. The producers said this episode would confirm some theories about the monster, and thats the strongest one we've had. It IS a science that is being researched. In fact, I think everything we've seen is based on a science that just not as in advanced in real life.

I think it was determining whether Eko was good or bad...as Goodwin told us about his list of "good people."

I think this definitely plays into why the plane went down. If these things whizzing through the air can pick up a man and skin him alive (or whatever it did to the pilot) then Im sure it could do something to a jet flying overhead.

Let's just not hear any "maybe theres more than one monster" theories please. Let's just assume that what we saw was the monster and go with what we've seen. Last night's answer was pretty straight forward ("the black smoke was the monster")...and in fact you could say the monster was actually revealed at the end of season one. All last night really did was confirm it and show us a few things the smoke likes to do. :)

The big question..and this was raised by Rousseau on season one is why are the others connected to this black smoke? Remember, Rousseau said everytime she saw smoke, the others came. Is this what she was seeing? Does it relate to the fire that they found in season one that had no footprints around it?

wharf rat

01-12-06, 11:56 PM

I just think it is bad CGI. If this is what Locke supposedly saw and he said it was the most beautiful thing he had ever seen? Boy does he need help!

Mayby a big fan blowing black 'stuff'.

igator210

01-13-06, 12:24 AM

I haven't seen anyone really list what they saw, so here goes:

I saw (not in order):

Yemi
Old priest
Church
Jesus
Necklace
The recruiting thug
Women
Dead goldie
An image of a screaming person (Walt?) with another face

I wish I could do screen caps, but alas I can't

Typhonae

01-13-06, 02:00 AM

Could the stomping sounds from the first season be trees being uprooted? Do you think this "smoke" that sounds like an old computer running that displayed images of the past could be sealed away thanks to the electromagnetics of The Swan? Maybe after 104 minutes, the electromagnetic field weakens, allowing the "smoke" to roam free. If the code isn't entered in the 4 minute window, the electromagnetic generator won't be able to be re-started, and allow to hold the "smoke" at bay. Also, who was the voice of the man talking during Revelations? Could he be someone from Dharma making a presentation about the specimens they have on the island facililty? After all, Goodwin said, "Only the good get taken." and chlidren are seen as innocent, why wouldn't the Dharma people not have information on the people who were on Oceanic 815?

EGlVM

01-13-06, 02:38 AM

After Locke "saw" the eye of the island, he seemed to act as if nothing really matters but faith.
Maybe the island showed him some history of itself or something. Maybe that's why he thought it was beautiful. Maybe the black smoke/security system/monster was showing Locke its happiest memory or something.
Also, who was the voice of the man talking during Revelations? Could he be someone from Dharma making a presentation about the specimens they have on the island facililty?
That was Peter Coyote. He's an actor with an awesome voice. He does alot of narrating for nature programs and stuff when he's not acting. I doubt he'll have anything more to do with Lost.

ericknadams

01-13-06, 02:57 AM

Does any one see a small face to the left of the square, about 2 inches? An old man with a beard in the woods?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v146/tulipsntugixi/blacksmoke6phredbox.jpg

Ekobomb

01-13-06, 05:35 AM

I think there's more than one part to the monster
Black smoke, Bigass mechanical robot thingy and possibly the bird that yells out Hurley's name when it flies off

In Exodus Pt. 2 when the monster takes a good close look at Locke, you hear gears and stuff rotating as it moves in, but when Eko is confronted by the monster, it's just a puff of quiet smoke that sparks electricity every now and then.

I'm guessing what stared at Locke was not the same thing that stared at Eko.

redneck once removed

01-13-06, 06:19 AM

Don't any of you wonder how a black cloud like entity grabbed locke if it just hovers? wouldn't we have seen black smoke on his leg? *(maybe 2 working together?)

also, as prev noted, we always see the trees explode but never Fall, maybe it's like a defensive (holographic?) illusion to scare something else away. how did That yank the pilot from the plane in the tree?

just my thoughts

Ekobomb

01-13-06, 06:26 AM

Have a look at this ;)

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/9788/monster7pa.jpg
For the original sized image..
http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/7471/monster9rm.jpg

kanamit

01-13-06, 06:28 AM

That was Peter Coyote. He's an actor with an awesome voice. He does alot of narrating for nature programs and stuff when he's not acting. I doubt he'll have anything more to do with Lost.
Peter Coyote? That's what I thought, too.
It does sound like his great voice.
Any confirmation of that?

Leslies_a_bitchin_name

01-13-06, 06:37 AM

ekobomb - nice pictures - good job.

The way the director panned the camera through the smokey cloud-ed-ness was awesome. It's like the food that feeds theorists like us!

Locke definitely had a similar Eko-experience with the cloud. That's why those two are so similarly related. Both men of faith, right?

redneck once removed

01-13-06, 07:07 AM

but the smoke is above to the right, not wrapped aroun his leg, what was holding him? if IT was, then maybe when it "scanned" Locke it saw a potential recruit and was pulling him into another hatch type area?

Anyway, yes, Locke and Eko are both now "men of faith".

(futuristic random thought, Eko is Locke's replacement if and when Locke ever goes over to /turns out to be a Dharma guy(s)?????????????????)

Amberite

01-13-06, 07:53 AM

Mattie

01-13-06, 12:21 PM

That was Boone and Shannon though, and it was a dream sequence.

9mile monster

01-13-06, 12:33 PM

Just when you think you've got it you get kicked in the ars(t) with new info.
Great shots, Corrilyn and Ekobomb.
Corrilyn, your screen cap definitely show two distinct colors of smoke, black and white, but sometimes they mix to grey.
Ekobomb, that face looks like a babboon profile
I wish I knew how to get screen caps.

joisse

01-13-06, 01:06 PM

Maybe the smoke/security system was a result of the "incident". (?)

feigenbaum

01-13-06, 03:12 PM

Looking at the cap of Kate and Jack- It looks like their faces mirrored in the smoke.Or am I the only one?

paulietchka

01-13-06, 04:52 PM

trying to make images (like a cheetah or whatever) out of the smoke is like trying to make images out of clouds in the sky "Hey, that one looks like a Dinosaur eating a bunny!". i believe it would fall into the "reading too much into it" category of speculation.

i say the focus should be not on how many monsters are there but what is the one that we have been presented to capable of. about the trees, i believe we have seen some fall, but if we haven't, it doesn't mean they didn't. we haven't seen many things in this show that we assume to be true and even use them to back up our theories.

and why so sure there are two "devices" (i'll use that word since JJ loves it so much)? we have seen the smoke can take up shapes, so maybe sometimes it can take the shape of a cloud like the one that taunted Ekko and other times it can take the shape of a rope like the one that tied Locke's legs and pulled him into the hole. remember Mustafah in Alladin? lol. but seriously, if it's such a complexly developed weapon (by accident or not), why dismiss the possibility of it having such properties?

erica1064

01-13-06, 07:17 PM

Occurred to me as I was reading this thread:

Are the flashbacks we see during a character centric episode simply the perspective of the smoke? The entity of the smoke capable of seeing reviewing the lives of the new entities on the island?

That would be an interesting device.

John Charles

01-13-06, 10:57 PM

"Hey, that one looks like a Dinosaur eating a bunny!".

Magic mushrooms, what an excellent summer that was.

Eko saw the smoke right before it confronted him. Locke saw the smoke right before it assaulted him. Did Locke see the smoke before his initial stare down with it?

And how spooky were those moments right before the smoke arrived when Eko was looking around? The surroundings there give me the willies. It looks like a bamboo prison.

Doletrain

01-13-06, 11:30 PM

First time poster, hope this wasn't stated anywhere else...

In regards to there being two monsters, the only thing which really makes me believe it (besides the sound of the rumbling footsteps) is that in an episode during the first season (I forget exactly which one it is), 1 or 2 terrified losties are hiding inside a patch of a few bamboo trees as the monster is trying to get to them. However, it can't seem to penetrate the 6" gaps between bamboo shafts -- implying it's too big too fit. This smoke definitely doesn't seem like it would have trouble fitting in between bamboo shafts....

For that reason I think there are 2 monsters

Another thing to consider in reference to the possibility that there are two monsters.... during the Pilot, theres a scene with the Survivors are on the beach the first night of the crash. It's the first time they hear the "Monster" and it seems to be coming for two different areas from the trees. Rose makes a reference that it sounds like something she's heard before? Now, that doesn't mean that there are definetly two different types of "Monsters" or that there are even two "Black Smokies" .... but I thought the point of the scene was an introduction of the "Monster(s) and to show that the sounds were coming for different spots. Just my opinion though.

*Saint*

01-13-06, 11:49 PM

OKay, that screen cap with the "old man" pointed out in the left hand corner? Looks to me like the dude that was just about to get sucked into the engine in the Pilot. I still think it looks like the engine...

stinkytojo

01-14-06, 02:12 AM

we have seen the smoke can take up shapes, so maybe sometimes it can take the shape of a cloud like the one that taunted Ekko and other times it can take the shape of a rope like the one that tied Locke's legs and pulled him into the hole. remember Mustafah in Alladin? lol. but seriously, if it's such a complexly developed weapon (by accident or not), why dismiss the possibility of it having such properties?

This made me think...I've been wondering how the smoke/swarm/system could rip up trees and why it would even want to rip up trees. But if the thing can take shapes, it might stand to reason that it IS the trees. Maybe it impersonates trees to hide until it is ready to burst into action like it did in front of Eko. Just a thought.

Cranky

01-14-06, 04:25 AM

Amberite, I've noticed the "hiding in the bamboo tree" scenario also. And, KF2, it didn't only happen in the dream. It happened almost every time the monster appeared. In the pilot, Kate counts to five under protection of the bamboo trees. In the dream sequence I'm pretty sure there's a "hiding in the bamboo tree" sequence (although it is a dream so it can't be taken as meaningful). If I'm not mistaken when they encounter the monster in the dark territory someone heads to a bamboo tree enclosure for protection. I seriously doubt that the tree the characters hide in have any special properties that create protection, and if a creature is massive enough to rip a pilot from a cockpit it can probably break a tree. That, or there is one monster, which is smoke, and can therefore seep through the gaps in the bamboo tree. So, although I personally see no significance it is an interesting find.

As a final note, I don't think the trees Amberite or I am referring to are actually bamboo; but it's late, I'm not a botanist, and those reading should be able to understand what I'm talking about.

Velociraptor Mongolinses

01-14-06, 06:37 AM

I think that the smoke and the "claw" that grabbed Locke are the same thing. The way it seemed to me, the cloud of smoke shrouds the mechanical parts. Also, I think the mechanical parts burst from the ground, and have some sort of tunnel system. Anyway, the mechnaical parts open the hole and the smoke covers everything up.

Of course wehn it leaves it kind of just disappears. Maybe the mechanics retract and the smoke disperses in an odd manner based on the movement of the retreating mechanical part.

Based on the sounds I heard, and the images, and the idea that the smoke is covering the mechanical part, I picture a variety of robotic tentacles covered with the smoke.

John Charles

01-14-06, 10:13 AM

I have a thread over in Theories and Spec that, I think, is a good explanation of what the intended use of the smoke monster had been.

http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12930

Unfortunately, this wonderfully insightful, beautifully written and edumacational thread of mine has had 154 views to this point and not one post.

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead: :banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead: :banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead: :banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead: :banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:

TheNumbersAreBad

01-14-06, 01:28 PM

I still believe Hurley's theory...that it's just some pissed off giraffe ^_^ (lol just like Ida Monster's icon) lol

9mile monster

01-14-06, 01:30 PM

When I saw Eko and Smokey, it appeared to me as if Eko was seeing his life flash before his eyes.
I think that the monster/security system uses this device of "life flashing before your eyes" as a self policing security system. People can be refreshed on what they did in their lives and what happened because of it. Eko saw the two drug guys he hacked with his machete, he saw the old man he shot, and he also saw the church, his brother .. So once Eko was refreshed on what happened in his life he can continue on and make better choices on the paths he should follow.
I've checked the Hanso Foundation website and their philosophy as stated is "social and scientific research for advancement of human race. Grants to worthy experiment designed to further the evolution of human race and provide technological solutions to pressing problems of our time."
So I think that a self policing device is a social advancement of the human race.

lostmio

01-14-06, 02:32 PM

Peter Coyote? That's what I thought, too.
It does sound like his great voice.
Any confirmation of that?

He was shown as narrator on the opening credits.

John Charles

01-14-06, 07:23 PM

Does anyone remember if Locke seemed to sense the smoke like Eko seemed to sense it right before it appeared?

yung23

01-15-06, 02:21 AM

LS, I wanted to add to your list..

smokie does not rise.

some have thought it could be exhaust from some invisible machine. but I think that would cancel that idea.

but smokie does seem to emit from a certain point.

smokie has a head"

(im playing around with smoke trails in maya)

LostInWilderness

01-15-06, 04:11 AM

1 or 2 terrified losties are hiding inside a patch of a few bamboo trees as the monster is trying to get to them. However, it can't seem to penetrate the 6" gaps between bamboo shafts -- implying it's too big too fit.
I looked at this from a different perspective. We see people hide in the trees several times, and each time the monster either doesn't see them or ignores them. Why? How can the mind-reading or emotion-reading monster miss anybody? Smokey can obviously fit between trees or blow them out of the ground, so it seems to me it hasn't wanted to.

So what was it chasing the first time in the pilot? Was it only after the pilot in the second part of the pilot? What was it chasing when the dynamite crew went to the Black Rock (maybe Arzt when he was separated)? Why does it confront some people (pilot, Locke, Eko) and ignore others (Jack, Kate, Charlie, Michael, Danielle, Hurley and Arzt)?

LostViking

01-15-06, 04:28 AM

.
Why does it confront some people (pilot, Locke, Eko) and ignore others (Jack, Kate, Charlie, Michael, Danielle, Hurley and Arzt)?

I would add to this;
Why did it leave Locke alone when he was walking TOO the Black Rock only to seize him when they were heading to the hatch with the dynamite. Was it just the dynamite? Why not go after Jack. Locke walked towards it with confidence (same as EKo) but then he saw something that freightened him, and the smoke grabbed him.

Why did we hear the sound of chains in that same epi, when there was no chain sound when it approached eko?

Why when Kate threw the stick down the shaft Lock was being pulled into, did it seem like smoke was comming out of several neerby shafts?

Is smokie powerful enough to drag the Black Rock inland? Does that explain the fearful look of the slave skeletons? I would be scared to death if that smoke came after me.

holland4

01-15-06, 07:01 AM

i wonder why the monster killed the pilot in the (he he) pilot episode, but did not kill locke and mr eco later on. how does it choose who to kill and not. if it is a security system, or whatever it may be, how could the pilot be more dangerous than any other charatcer on the island. as far as i know, the pilot is still the only one killed by the monster. are there different monsters on the island?

Itsallaboutwalt83

01-15-06, 07:19 AM

It mistook him for a tree.

sonofethan

01-15-06, 08:21 AM

We don't know the pilot is dead, do we?
Its a long time back now, but I don't remember seeing his body, just seing him get sucked through the window, maybe he is elsewhere?

flips3512

01-15-06, 08:45 AM

stilllost

01-15-06, 09:47 AM

because the writers wanted you to make the corny pilot/pilot episode joke.

Itsallaboutwalt83

01-15-06, 02:23 PM

The pilot serves 2 purposes.

1-he turns the monster into a genuine threat, something the writers needed early on for it to be taken seriously.
2-he tells the survivors that they were 1000 miles off course and that "they're looking in the wrong place"

John Charles

01-15-06, 02:56 PM

The smoke can fly through the air and 'dig' through the ground.

The smoke 'looks' at your face/head when it is near.

In the last episode, when the smoke was done with Eko, it turned in on itself as it began to leave.

There was light and darkness within the smoke

The smoke does not have a constant shape.

Cranky

01-15-06, 03:15 PM

"It mistook him for a tree."

lmao. Not sure why but that struck me as very funny.

Other than the fact the writers wanted the monster to be feared, maybe the monster scanned the pilot and found something he didn't like or saw him as a threat. That or there's 2 monsters. Either way.

NokomisIsABadRobot

01-15-06, 03:23 PM

The guy over at ''The Tailsection'' (named before there were tailies) has done a wicked slo mo of the Smonster attack on Eko..
http://www.thetailsection.com/

You can see all the images clear as day. Scroll down until you see
Lost clip -- the smoke fly by.
I would assume right click save as is preferred.

LandPirate

01-15-06, 04:51 PM

JediArturo

01-15-06, 05:18 PM

a)Why did we hear the sound of chains in that same epi, when there was no chain sound when it approached eko?

b)Smokey was silent when encountering Eko...?

My take on the sounds of Smokey vs. Eko.

a) Yes I heard two distinct "chain sounds" with Smokey and Eko. They are at the very start of the encounter, as you see the two big explosions. The chain sounds are short and sweet, but there. Big *BOOM*....*clicking of chains*....2nd big *BOOM*...*clicking of chains*.... then it goes into the "caa'ing" (like the bird sound) as it glides towards Eko.
b) The above plus the fact that Smokey makes this glottal growl (my words) as the camera pans away from Eko into the Smokey cloud. Then you hear the sound of electricity(my words), then the sounds of *click click click*, more *caa'ing* (like a bird sound), more *clicking* and electricity sounds. Then it reverts on it self, and glides back into the jungle, straight down into the ground, or it's out of range of view where ever it goes to.

It's not silent, at all, Smokey, it's made up of several different sounds. Very alive sounding.

NokomisIsABadRobot

01-15-06, 05:40 PM

I'd love to see that (the images clear as day). Can't find it though.
__________________

I just clicked on my link and it's working for me.. Once the page opens..scroll down a bit. The page is kind of divided into 2 halves. On the right half, you will see
''Lost dominates ratings..Invasion falters''
then the article under that.
The very next box should say
''Lost clip..the smoke fly by''
Its in this box that you will find the clip to watch. Its the very last thing at the bottom of that box.
The Monster/Eko Fly-By in Slo-Mo
(dont click on the highlighted word 'monster' )

If you get to
''LOST: 23rd Psalm Hires Caps Up ''

You've gone too far.

Enjoy

LandPirate

01-15-06, 06:15 PM

I just clicked on my link and it's working for me.. Once the page opens..scroll down a bit. The page is kind of divided into 2 halves. On the right half, you will see
''Lost dominates ratings..Invasion falters''
then the article under that.
The very next box should say
''Lost clip..the smoke fly by''
Its in this box that you will find the clip to watch. Its the very last thing at the bottom of that box.
The Monster/Eko Fly-By in Slo-Mo
(dont click on the highlighted word 'monster' )

If you get to
''LOST: 23rd Psalm Hires Caps Up ''

You've gone too far.

Enjoy

thanks, found it. But even after updating my Windows media player, I still get a run error regarding something about codecs.

Strip Gwyn

01-15-06, 08:41 PM

I think there are two monsters aswell, which is why the middle section got off with minimal injuries, but the monster took the pilot because he wasnt supposed to be on the island, but locke was left unscathed because he was

sammylosty

01-15-06, 08:43 PM

If the monster is controlled by someone or something (like what has been talked about on countless occasions), then maybe it realised that the pilot would be the one who knew the most about how to get a signal or how to use the plane's cockpit equipment most efficiantly.
Therefore it could have killed the pilot because it didn't want the people to get off the island. Because if it killed the pilot, then who would be able to help the survivors use the equipment?

LostInWilderness

01-15-06, 09:27 PM

Not a theory, and it's being discussed in GD. Merging.

holland4

01-16-06, 06:50 AM

if the monster killed the pitol to keep him from helping the survivors, then why not kill sayid for his technical knowledge?

John Charles

01-16-06, 12:31 PM

The monster killed the pilot because the pilot was not supposed to be in the testing area.

Nimrod3277

01-17-06, 04:02 AM

Regarding the two Monsters question: On Disc Seven of the Season 1 DVD, Lindelof says something along the lines of 'whenever there's a black rock in the show, we also show a white one.' He uses the example of Locke showing Walt the white and black backgammon pieces. Apparently, there are also two contrasting rocks when Jack discovers Adam and Eve in the caves (I haven't seen them). This yeilds two conclusions:

One, there must be another "white monster" to oppose the black smoke monster.

Two, there is an opposite to the Black Rock (totally different topic, but interesting nonetheless).

rvturnage

01-17-06, 03:05 PM

igator210

01-17-06, 03:19 PM

nah the body of the pilot was found hanging up on a tree all mangled found by jack, charlie and kate i think. when they were asked back at the beach if they found any survivors they didnt tell the rest about the pilot.

Minor point... The pilot wasn't really found hanging - or at least what most people immediately think of hanging. He was kinda drapped across some branches in the top of a tree. He was laying face up on the branches.

cordevil95

01-17-06, 05:02 PM

The monster killed the pilot because the pilot was not supposed to be in the testing area.

This is exactly what i think.

The images in the smoke could be viewed 2 ways: We are seeing what Eko is seeing and any outside observer of the "real island" world would not see it, or the images are in fact there for everyone to see. If it's the 2nd then you have to assume that whomever is behind the island knows about the people lost on the island. I don't think it can read minds or anything like that.. that would be a little too far fetched and not very scientific at all.

Therefor, all the people were brought to the island for a reason and the pilot was suppose to die on the plane crash.

RememberMe

01-17-06, 07:48 PM

Something interesting I noted a while back, but never commented on, and haven't seen mentioned is that all of the images (scenes from Nigeria and the cross) in the smoke are right side up except for the image of Eko on the island right after the plane crash. It's upside down. Why is the only image that is upside down also the only image from the island?

rvturnage

01-18-06, 04:10 PM

It's not silent, at all, Smokey, it's made up of several different sounds. Very alive sounding.
for those not reading Yung's theory thread about Smokey (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12600), there's good reason it's "alive sounding":
http://www.lostlinks.net/whispers.htm

sounds like someone controlling ole smokey to me...

rvt

Mahavishnu

01-18-06, 04:31 PM

What make me wonder if there's 2 monsters is the first "sighting" of the monster in the pilot. It shows a bunch of trees falling in a path, almost like something is knocking them over, instead of uprooting them and having them fly straight up. I guess they could be falling over after being uprooted, but something about it looks like an entirely different creature is doing it than in the later episodes

John Charles

01-18-06, 06:02 PM

Mahavishnu. I agree with you. That and other inconsistencies from season one to season two have been frustrating.

Season one was written for immediate gratification entertainment value with no thorough explanation for the mysteries.

What we need to do is focus our theorizing more on the clues given to us in season two for the show was a hit before TPTB had a clear storyline.

I know it takes a little bit of the enjoyment out of the show but hey, nobody's perfect.

realadam

01-19-06, 06:05 PM

The "castaways" are not actually castaways. there was no plane crash, and they have been on the island for years. The whole operation is a range of different experiments, including memory implantation. The memories and flashbacks that each islander has is a created one. The plane crash, and their "real lives" are just invented memories.The smoke is a gas that is everpresent on the island, it is just not usually in as condensed a form as it was in Ekos case. It is a gas that is used to implant, maintain, or somehow apply these created pasts to the "castaways". This is supported in that the memories of each featured islander seem to intersect, and that the other "castaways" are consistently present in the individual flashbacks. I think that Eko was on the verge of realizing that his flashbacks were not real, so he was hit with a heavy blast of this gas to bring him back. The plane and "eko's brother" were planted by the experimenters, along with the heroin. I don't think that Charlie is actually an addict either, so I think that planting the heroin is a way of testing how strong the memory implants are. Can they make a sober man believe that he is an addict to the point where he will actually "relapse"?

HelpImLost

01-19-06, 06:24 PM

Wow, that's a stretch.

Do they report to an on-island barber shop for hair cuts? lol

HelpImLost

01-20-06, 03:12 PM

Old smoke: The smoke that the french chick was speaking of. The one that signals something about the others wanting her to take them the baby. Cant remember exactly how that played out.

New smoke: Smokey the smart cloud.

Think she may have been refering to Smokey back then? If so, what does Smokey want with a baby, aside from it has no past for Smokey to examine?

Not sure if this has been covered yet...

JinAndTonic

01-20-06, 03:32 PM

black smoke = signal
smart smoke = security

different smoke...speaking of smoke....what are you smokin? ;-)

HelpImLost

01-20-06, 03:35 PM

Well, we assumed that the smoke she spoke of was a normal smoke signal. She saw the smoke, so she took the baby.

She got there and there she was with the baby. Whatever she thought was going to happen, didnt.

So, what I was wondering was when she saw the smoke signal, she thought she was seeing smokey?

BubbleBoy13

01-21-06, 12:29 AM

ok so in the first episode we see the trees being pulled down NOT uprooted but later on we see them being uprooted but never landing

we see the smoke but does it make the roaring noise? no. it doesnt jus uprooting trees and the fluttering sound and we dont hear the giant foot steps either

and for all of those hu say that its a giant bird, dont forget that when shannon got picked up by the monster it was all an illusion, even with the shadow on the bush and the screwed up trees

so that knocks out the bird theory

wut do i think?

a shapeshifter.
an object that can manipulate its form 2 take the shape of sumtin else, hence the "giant bird" or "Smokey" or sumtin lik that....but wut does that mean? Smokey is its true form, the form that can uproot treees and get around fast, but it turns into a mechanical being when it feels threatened by sumtin and thats where the roaring, footsteps, and chain sounds come from

then theres smokey and locke...

remember the first time he saw it? it was the mechanical shape, but only because it was the first time encountering locke, and when it saw locke had no weapons, it moved away, but when it confronted him again when he had the dynamite, it attacked him, knocked him down, turned into Smokey, and drug him into the ground

and some people say that its a mechanical chain thats pulling him, but when u slow it down (i used mi xbox 360, it slows it down 2 a half a frame) its not mechanical at all, its wispy, jet black, and has no links lik a regular chain does

wut do u think?

BubbleBoy13

01-21-06, 12:38 AM

BubbleBoy13

yung23

01-21-06, 12:40 AM

perhaps it physically moves trees to the side when going about, it sure did when it approached Locke in walkabout.

I still feel two systems at work during the tree explosion parts. but where DO they land ?

maybe it looks like a tree then quickly and violently moves to another location to again be a tree,
then finally explodes to disipate in order to form smokie.

BubbleBoy13

01-21-06, 12:54 AM

yung do u agree with mi theory of maybe a shapeshifter and not so much as a huge, death defying, metallic clawed, sqwawking, man eating, ripping-pilot-out-of-cockpit-thru-window, roaring, flapping, smokey, carniferous bird?

i think u all got the point about the bird....

BubbleBoy13

snakey

01-21-06, 12:55 AM

in the pilot it was more like some 'big bird'-dinosaur-animal-thingee, I was thinking when I first saw the pilot it was going to be a modern adaption of the TV series Lost World. Happily the show turned out to be much more, but anyway I think it's 2 separate entities.

yung23

01-21-06, 12:58 AM

i dont like the big bird theory at all.

BubbleBoy13

01-21-06, 01:01 AM

John Charles

01-21-06, 03:01 AM

Birds have wings and I didn't see any on smokey. So I say no to it being a 'big bird'.

Myth Busted!

Dreamer

01-21-06, 04:41 AM

Am I the only one seeing this?? When the black smoke goes past or thru Mr. Eko, try watching this frame by frame. In the smoke you will see several faces of people from Mr. Eko's past. Look carefully.Just before the smoke is gone, there's even a crucifix at the top left. What does it all mean?

lockesgimpylegs

01-21-06, 04:42 AM

Has anyone noticed the weird images in the black smoke which Ecko encounters. I noticed it as I was watching the episode so I took screen captures, frame by frame. It clearly indicates pictures embedded in the smoke. Check it out. www.photobucket.com--search (http://www.photobucket.com--search) album named "abigflea". Some of the pictures are hard to make out but some are as clear as day such as pictures of Ecko's brother, a shot of a crucifix, some of the church steeple.
Don't really know what this means but I thought it was pretty cool

*Saint*

01-21-06, 04:44 AM

Yep. There are various images from his past. There is already a thread on this. Try the search feature and it should lead you to it! ;)

lockesgimpylegs

01-21-06, 04:52 AM

My theory is that the black smoke and the mechanical sounding thing are two different entities. When Locke sees it season 1, he says "it's the most beautiful thing he ever saw." When he sees the mechanical thing in "exodus 2" he's scared sh*tless. I think the smoke grabs him and drags him away from the mechanical thing like a mother pulls a child away from traffic. I think Locke realized this during his romp through the jungle floor and thats why he told Jack to let him go.

BubbleBoy13

01-21-06, 01:25 PM

When he sees the mechanical thing in "exodus 2" he's scared sh*tless. I think the smoke grabs him and drags him away from the mechanical thing like a mother pulls a child away from traffic. Jack to let him go.

wait....

lik a life saver!!?

the smoke can b the good monster, and it could hav been pullin locke down the hole becuz smokey new that the mechanical being couldnt go down there...and thats y locke knew he would b safe going down there because the smoke was actually trying 2 SAVE his life and not kill him.....

jus a thot im still goin with mi shapeshifter theory

mr eko

01-21-06, 09:33 PM

i saw no smoke thsi ep:Booky:

snakey

01-21-06, 10:24 PM

Haaaa! the big bird conspiracy revealed. I know it's not a big bird literally but I pictured a long necked something, dino or whatever in that first appearance when it grabbed the pilot through the window of the plane. Anyway I think it was a dif entity form the smartdust.

Angela57

01-22-06, 03:02 AM

The pictures were awesome.. Thank you.... the smoke looked wooly to me.. I did see the pics in the smoke though..

niann

01-22-06, 12:32 PM

SareBear00

01-22-06, 08:25 PM

I was really confused by this 'smoke' monstor. I rewatched smokies appearance (with Ecko) on the tivo, and I could make out all of the images previously listed (with the excpetion of the suggested cheetah). Then I remembered that the smoke also appeared to Locke, so I pulled out my season One Dvd Set and I watched the monsters scene (when the monster grabbed Locke) on slow play. Whenever Kate through the dynamite down the hole, the smoke came up, and in the smoke I could see two heads. I couldn't figure out who these two heads where though. They are fairly clear. I think that if we can figure out who these two people where in the smoke (when it appeared to Locke) we will be able to make more sense of what exactly this monster is and what he/she does. So if anyone with the Season One set has a free minute, check that scene out - slow play it and watch for the two heads. See if you recognize one of them! It may help in discovering who and what this monster is!!

nonepepsi

02-07-06, 02:06 AM

when ecko saw the smoke it seemed as though their were different clouds of smoke that formed one giant cloud...but one of the smaller clouds left before the rest

has this been discussed?

what does this mean?

I-AM-LOST

02-07-06, 03:00 PM

it looked like the "head" of the smoke monster turned around and left. So it seemed to have a front and a back instead of just a big mass of smoke.

Volkmar

02-07-06, 03:19 PM

I think it's just the producers who wanted to give the real look of smoke.
There is alaways a trail folowing the major cloud of smoke. But the thing is that, it does shrink, so either it's always reproducing the smoke or it never evaporates in the air. Sorta like oil in water it dosen't mix, the oil stays on top

stag

02-07-06, 05:04 PM

In my humble opinion the smoke and the monster are the same thing. If Danniele wasn't lying when she claimed the monster was a security system then there's an easy explanation for Locke's differing reactions to the monster and the monster's different reaction to him.

In Locke's first encounter with the monster he was just another dude in the jungle and if indeed the monster can see a person's past - it didn't find him to be a threat to whatever needs protecting. However, in the second encounter Locke has discovered the hatch and is trying to get in - which would warrant the monster taking action to stop him.

Just my opinion, but it seems that the island is getting awfully full with the possibility of two sets of others, two sets of survivors, and now two "monsters".

BubbleBoy13

02-07-06, 09:49 PM

Stag, that kind of runs in with the shapeshifter theory I have and some of the others have to. Don't you wonder why we saw the smoke first in Exodus 2, and then when Locke fell because of the tree being blown out beside him it was all mechanical sounding? And then you hear the rackitty chain grab Locke, but then when you slow it down its all flimsy and rope like and black.

Just seems like it turns it shape with the actions around it.

I Sea U

02-07-06, 10:06 PM

It seems metallic and/or electric
I doubt the monster is metallic or electric; it seems more of a mysterious spiritual being then a security system that reads people's minds whenever it feels like it.

mynameisphil

02-08-06, 12:33 AM

i was wondering if someone could check if the noise from the pilot episode is the same as the noise when lock sees the monster for the first time
i am thinking that there are 2 monsters and the smoke is protecting them from the other monster finding the others or finding a darama hatch with scientist working.
i think the hatch they found may have been an experiment.
also i think that maybe the whole seeing walt thing is a hologram
i duno the way they play backwards, almost like a mirror image, i know sound isnt played backwards in a mirror image but still. just chuking some ideas around sorry they are not as good as yours
u guys make some interesting reading!!!
anyway cant wait to see the next episode
sorry if anything has been brought up by meen that has been b4

BubbleBoy13

02-08-06, 01:00 AM

mynameisphil, I know I am not a moderator at this kind of stuff, but next time would you please type right that way our fellow readers can understand them?

Most of the ideas you've said have usually been talked about on this forum, but I can't find any similarity between the sounds of the first monster appearence in Pilot part 1 and the sounds of the plane ripping and tearing apart in the flashbacks. I doubt there are two monsters, but 1 monster with shapeshifting capabilities. We ultimately know the hatch is an experiment. Right now it is iffy on the Walt appearences on whether they are real or illusion. But, although it seems we have no clue at first to whether play it backwards or not, most people who investigate Walt and the backwards speech find a clue that can help us further go deeper into the mystery of Walt. Don't you think it's interesting how a couple episodes after Walt was taken he appears talking backwards about the button (possibly the one in the hatch) and saying "Don't press the button, button is bad," or "Press the button, no button is bad," and then he says in Shannon and Sayid's tent "They're coming and They're close" and a little bit later the tailies show up?

Just to anwser your thoughts.

mynameisphil

02-08-06, 12:03 PM

thanks for the post bak
one thing that no one has spoken about is the rain
why does it only happen when the monster is near at some points but not others? whenever the smoke has appeared there has never been any rain
well anyway just tought i would throw something else into the mix

Mrs.Fox

02-08-06, 03:58 PM

its growls at eko

BubbleBoy13

02-08-06, 07:08 PM

its growls at eko

Hahaha glad you said that...perculiar that when the monster was twisting around it made some kind of deep, rattling sound kind of like a big dog but deeper and more concentrated.

And the front of the smoke went through itself when it turned around, and the tail in followed it, so obviousley there is a main bulk and a trail of something that follows.

BubbleBoy13

rvturnage

02-08-06, 08:05 PM

Hahaha glad you said that...perculiar that when the monster was twisting around it made some kind of deep, rattling sound kind of like a big dog but deeper and more concentrated.
BubbleBoy13

actually, it's slowed down speech...:

http://www.lostlinks.net/monster.htm

BubbleBoy13

02-08-06, 11:54 PM

actually, it's slowed down speech...:

http://www.lostlinks.net/monster.htm

Bloody hell! How did you find that?? That amazing! I went through and played all of them on sound recorder and listened and inspected them thouroughly (because at first they sounded like jibberish) and I could perfectly hear what it was! Do you think they did that on purpose?

Wow you just opened me up to a greater force about Smokey! Do I have your permission to share your link with others to show them?

rvturnage

02-09-06, 02:13 PM

Bloody hell! How did you find that?? That amazing! I went through and played all of them on sound recorder and listened and inspected them thouroughly (because at first they sounded like jibberish) and I could perfectly hear what it was! Do you think they did that on purpose?

Wow you just opened me up to a greater force about Smokey! Do I have your permission to share your link with others to show them?

of course you can share it. That's why it's up on lostlinks! We figured it out right after 23 Psalm aired. It's been up on lostlinks.net for awhile. The sound is rough, and I've heard a few complaints from people not being able to hear anything, so I'm quite glad you were able to:thumbs_up

rvt

BubbleBoy13

02-09-06, 09:35 PM

of course you can share it. That's why it's up on lostlinks! We figured it out right after 23 Psalm aired. It's been up on lostlinks.net for awhile. The sound is rough, and I've heard a few complaints from people not being able to hear anything, so I'm quite glad you were able to:thumbs_up

rvt

Oh yeah, I can hear it! Plain as day. My parents had to read the transcript after they heard it the first time, but I heard it completely without reading the transcript. How in the name of the good Lord above did you find this?:Booky:

TheGriff

02-09-06, 11:18 PM

Can I join your organization, dzukunfit? I hate ana lucia. Even her voice makes her detestable.

rvturnage

02-10-06, 02:32 PM

Oh yeah, I can hear it! Plain as day. My parents had to read the transcript after they heard it the first time, but I heard it completely without reading the transcript. How in the name of the good Lord above did you find this?:Booky:

The idea to give it a listen was passed onto us over at thefuselage.com, since we'd been doing our work on the whispers. someone suggested it in a thread that it appeared as though Smokey was talking to Eko...so a poster immediately sped it up and found what sounded like a voice repeating something... I think it was "where", over and over...anyway someone forwarded the request on to Penyours and myself, and after a little digging, Pen discovered that the "where, where where" was actually other dialogue at varying speeds...so we decided to dig a little deeper. Bingo!

That's when we had our "h@!y sh*t" moment and realized that there's a lot more clues out there that we missed...we're trying to get started on the monster sounds from last season, but got interrupted by another request that I personally thought was rediculous, but worked on anyway...and it has led to an even larger "h@!y sh*t" moment...but it's not finalized yet...so I hate to post it. But I'll tell you this...remember back in "special" when Walt was attacked by a Polar Bear and hid in the trees? Well...there was a lot more to that bear than met the eye. ;)

rvt

Doletrain

02-10-06, 02:34 PM

The idea to give it a listen was passed onto us over at thefuselage.com, since we'd been doing our work on the whispers. someone suggested it in a thread that it appeared as though Smokey was talking to Eko...so a poster immediately sped it up and found what sounded like a voice repeating something... I think it was "where", over and over...anyway someone forwarded the request on to Penyours and myself, and after a little digging, Pen discovered that the "where, where where" was actually other dialogue at varying speeds...so we decided to dig a little deeper. Bingo!

That's when we had our "h@!y sh*t" moment and realized that there's a lot more clues out there that we missed...we're trying to get started on the monster sounds from last season, but got interrupted by another request that I personally thought was rediculous, but worked on anyway...and it has led to an even larger "h@!y sh*t" moment...but it's not finalized yet...so I hate to post it. But I'll tell you this...remember back in "special" when Walt was attacked by a Polar Bear and hid in the trees? Well...there was a lot more to that bear than met the eye. ;)

rvt
Oh man ......don't tease us like that...haa haa, are you going to post in this thread or in another?

rvturnage

02-10-06, 03:00 PM

Oh man ......don't tease us like that...haa haa, are you going to post in this thread or in a another?

:nanabobo:

:D
Probably another, as it doesn't really have to do with black smoke...but you could also keep an eye on lostlinks.net, as it'll probably go up there as soon as we get it finalilzed.

rvt

ILikeLostBrunettes

02-10-06, 03:16 PM

rvt, I love your audiobility... nice work on the monster voices transcript... what is the other "holy sh@t" moment??

BubbleBoy13

02-10-06, 07:59 PM

Noo!! RVTURNAGE YOU GOT TO TELL RIGHT NOW IM OBSESSIVE COMPULSIVE!!!!!! Lol, no but I am but why did you tell me that now I got to wait for it. D**n...send me a private message with a little sneak peek at it please?

BubbleBoy13

Danono

03-21-06, 03:25 AM

I can't decide. killed the pilot but not boone, ecko or locke. It showed boone how to relieve his suffering. we dont know exactly what it showed locke/ecko. but both also had great suffering. Perhaps it has pity for those who have suffered greatly. Perhaps we should look at what ecko and locke did after the vision, since one might assume that they too were given visions of how to relieve their suffering.

btw not to stray to far from the simple question of whether it is good/bad, but if it does pity and helps those who have suffered, perhaps it has suffered.

Noav Sigless

03-21-06, 03:43 AM

Wasn't the Boone/monster encounter a drug induced hallucination?

yung23

03-21-06, 04:11 AM

Is the monster good or bad

why cant it be both ?

yin has a little good and yang has a little evil...

at times "the good" will emerge from smokie.

I wouldn't call it neutral though.

Danono

03-21-06, 10:54 AM

Wasn't the Boone/monster encounter a drug induced hallucination?

no locke tied him up and forced boone to encounter the monster.

shands99

03-21-06, 11:27 AM

Not nessacarily true. Didin't Locke smear that sdolution into his open wound?

That contained halucagen?

John

03-21-06, 11:51 AM

Danono:

Remember that Shannon was killed in that hallucination. It was nothing more than exactly that. Locke drugged him with the salve.

Danono

03-21-06, 02:42 PM

Remember that Shannon was killed in that hallucination. It was nothing more than exactly that. Locke drugged him with the salve.

i suppose that is possible, but locke explained the salve as something to ward off infection for the wound he gave boone to knock him out. after the hallucination, locke seemed a bit suprised at what "it" had shown boone. here are some of the transcripts:

BOONE: Hey, I don't think this is best for me. [Locke smears the stuff he's been mixing onto the wound on Boone's head.] What is that?

LOCKE: An untreated wound, out here, is going to get infected.

and after the hallucination:

BOONE: What the hell just happened to me out there?

LOCKE: I don't know. I don't know, you tell me. [Locke pushes Boone off of him.] But your sister, Shannon. . . [we can see Shannon walk up with Sayid in the background]

BOONE: She was dead.

LOCKE: Is that what it made you see?

BOONE: What made me see? That stuff you put on my head -- you drugged me.

LOCKE: I gave you an experience that I believe was vital to your survival on this island.

I can understand that boone's accusation of "drugging" was taken at face value, but from its first airing I always believed locke about the salve and believed, based upon locke's statment about "it", that boone encountered the moster when he was tied up, who gave him the "vision"

John

03-21-06, 02:45 PM

interplanetjanet

03-21-06, 03:26 PM

I agree with The Plane. If Locke had said "I'm rubbing a potent hallucinogen into your head so you'll have creepy-yet-insightful visions" what follows would have no dramatic impact for him or for us.

Danono

03-21-06, 04:10 PM

alright I can see your interpretaion, just never thought of it before, didn't take it that way. however, I would point out with some...ahhh "experience" I have never seen the ingestion of a halicinogen through a head wound.

John

03-21-06, 04:44 PM

No, but I do have "experience" of my own (years ago) which involved dropping a certain hallucinogen into the eye. All it has to do is enter the bloodstream.

Oh... Kids! Don't do drugs! Bad! Very, very <tic> BAD!

LostInWilderness

03-21-06, 05:18 PM

Of course he explained it as something to ward off infection. He didn't want him to start freaking out. That would have sent him off on a "bad trip" from the get-go.

From the way that the scene was shot, it was clear that the salve was affecting him in a drug-like manner. Do you suppose tying him up might have set him off on a bad trip? Locke definitely gave Boone a hallucinogin, but telling Boone that might have changed the course of the hallucination, so he didn't tell him.

John

03-21-06, 05:43 PM

Do you suppose tying him up might have set him off on a bad trip?

I think it certainly didn't help his state of mind. From my ample "experience", situations and circumstances are a huge influence on the positive/negative arc of the "trip". That's actually a really good point, LIW, and I hadn't considered that before.

By restraining Boone, Locke preconditioned Boone for the experience that he would have. Boone was "trapped" by his feelings for Shannon, and conversly was keeping a strong grip on her as a result. When the trip was over and she was "dead" he felt relieved and relaxed his grip. It was his own inability to let go that was keeping him trapped.

PandoraX

03-21-06, 05:53 PM

I think that giving him the hallucinogen (which, I'm sure has been discussed in the past... is along the lines of the Native American "vision quests" that were rites of passage for boys to enter manhood)... did accomplish one thing. It established how fine a line is on the island between what is real and what is perceived. I'm not trying to say that "it was all in their head" type idea.... but just that there's something about this story which has a definite surreal property to it. I think that what the lostaways believe changes the world around them and modifies it.

LostInWilderness

03-21-06, 06:28 PM

Thus my famous, though now neglected, Locke is a Spirit Guide (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5530&highlight=spirit+guide) thread.

Danono

03-21-06, 07:45 PM

these are all good ideas and i can see there basis but i'm sticking with boone faced the monster and it was the monster that showed him the vision, no drugs. the vision he was shown was a demonstration of a way out of his suffering.

ecko has faced the monster and was given guidance as well, perhaps to build a church.

locke faced the monster and stuck with the getting in the hatch thing, or perhaps it was something else that locke has to accomplish?

i just have a hard time reading locke's reference to "thats what it showed you" as a drug trip.

John

03-21-06, 07:53 PM

LOCKE: Is that what it made you see?

BOONE: What made me see? That stuff you put on my head -- you drugged me.

LOCKE: I gave you an experience that I believe was vital to your survival on this island.

BOONE: It wasn't real?

LOCKE: It was only as real as you made it.

yung23

03-21-06, 08:29 PM

apollo brought that possibility to the surface. he altered perceptions, making another reality emerge.

making many worlds happen.

this is how he manifests things like horses and dead fathers.

he makes the "what if" possible.

and Locke knows this..

LOCKE: Why are you out here, Jack?
JACK: I think I'm going crazy.
LOCKE: No. You're not going crazy. Crazy people don't know they're going crazy. They think they're getting saner. So, why are you out here?
JACK: I'm chasing something -- someone.
LOCKE: Ah. The white rabbit. Alice in Wonderland.
JACK: Yeah, wonderland, because who I'm chasing -- he's not there.
LOCKE: But you see him?
JACK: Yes. But he's not there.
LOCKE: And if I came to you and said the same thing, then what would your explanation be, as a doctor.
JACK: I'd call it a hallucination. A result of dehydration, post traumatic stress, not getting more than 2 hours of sleep a night for the past week. All of the above.
LOCKE: All right, then. You're hallucinating. But what if you're not?
JACK: Then we're all in a lot of trouble.
LOCKE: I'm an ordinary man Jack, meat and potatoes, I live in the real world. I'm not a big believer in magic. But this place is different. It's special. The others don't want to talk about it because it scares them. But we all know it. We all feel it. Is your white rabbit a hallucination? Probably. But what if everything that happened here, happened for a reason? What if this person that you're chasing is really here?
JACK: That's impossible.
LOCKE: Even if it is; let's say it's not.
JACK: Then what happens when I catch him?
LOCKE: I don't know. But I've looked into the eye of this island. And what I saw was beautiful.
[Locke gets up to leave.]
JACK: Wait, wait, wait, where are you going?
LOCKE: To find some more water.
JACK: I'll come with you.
LOCKE: No. You need to finish what's you've started.
JACK: Why?
LOCKE: Because a leader can't lead until he knows where he's going.

just the way Locke is talking here, its like he knows the impossible can be possible on this island.

take the impossiblity of anyone even surviving the crash.
the one in a billion chances of it happening was made to happen.
the possibility of if was "solved" by Apollo.

Noav Sigless

03-21-06, 08:35 PM

Yung, are you saying the god, Apollo, is on the island?

yung23

03-21-06, 08:54 PM

no, its just his nickname
based on the idea of Apollo acsending to the heavens, the whole philip K Dick idea, and the fact the hatches are based upon the same mythical figure.

his real name could be anything.
I have even thought he may be related to Thomas, the father of Aaron, whose paintings match the one in the hatch...

this Apollo was merely a test subject.

maybe I will just call him "it" from now on.

lacenaire

03-21-06, 08:59 PM

Gospel of Thomas, Yung?

yung23

03-21-06, 09:16 PM

hmm.

No One In Particular

04-02-06, 03:24 AM

LostInWilderness

04-02-06, 04:52 AM

Welcome to the board festus taint. Please read the welcome forum and join in.

This is not a theory, so I'm moving it to GD.

LostEmissary

04-02-06, 06:07 AM

The rerun of this weeks lost in on right now. In the Locke's flashback just after he speaks to Nadia there appears to be an odd looking smoke cloud behind him covering up a lamp post. This might sound crazy, might just be fog, but it just looks odd. What do you think?

I just rewatched the scene, went frame by frame, looked at every lamp post I could see... and the closest thing I see to a could of smoke is the clouds in the sky. At no point is there anything hiding a lamp post in any way, at least as far as I can tell.

jameswalwyn

04-02-06, 10:08 AM

TOO MANY ASSUMPTIONS TO PROVE ANYTHING

I just want to comment on the asumptions people make especially in this thread.
We don't know if the smoke monster was the same thing that made the trees sway in season1. In my opinion it wasnt because when we see the smoke it flys swiftly weaving in and out of the trees (like when Jack first sees it), and it was in a minimalistic form (shrunken in size).

Kate DID NOT see the smoke go to near where Locke was exploring, all she saw was again the trees moving as if something was pushing them. A geneticlly enhanced giant polar bear would have more reason to make trees move tham smokey.

WE DO NOT know that it was smokey that 'analyzed' locke, because non of us saw it. Whatever came out of the trees infront of locke, again made those trees sway, and smokey doesnt do that, smokey either flys around them like a swift bird or he smashes into them when he gets pissed off (like when he saw Eko).

THE NOISES - This is what makes no sense at all

Only smokey (from wot creatures weve seen so far) could pick the pilot out of the cockpit when the plane was tilted up like it was. And leave him in the tree tops (predator style). However unless smokey can make any noise it wants to (assuming it can form any shape it wants to), it sounded like a T-Rex stomping after Charlie, Kate and Jacke

We hear the same sound when the few losties n Danielle go lookin for the black rock. However Danielle doesnt seem too shaken up by it ("it's just a security system").

So........is smokey responsible for the t-rex noises?

LostEmissary

04-02-06, 10:20 AM

WE DO NOT know that it was smokey that 'analyzed' locke, because non of us saw it. Whatever came out of the trees infront of locke, again made those trees sway, and smokey doesnt do that, smokey either flys around them like a swift bird or he smashes into them when he gets pissed off (like when he saw Eko). I don't know if it's so much smokey smashing into them as much as it is some other force that's associated with smokey blowing them up out of the ground. Perhaps a force underground not only "controls" smokey but also does the blowing up of the trees. This could also explain why it seems like smokey only inhabits certain areas of the island - whatever it is that controls him from underground can only move in certain "hollow" areas under the ground, such as caves, tunnels, etc.

Only smokey (from wot creatures weve seen so far) could pick the pilot out of the cockpit when the plane was tilted up like it was. And leave him in the tree tops (predator style). However unless smokey can make any noise it wants to (assuming it can form any shape it wants to), it sounded like a T-Rex stomping after Charlie, Kate and JackeI thought the stomping sound was explained by the trees blowing up out of the ground.

John

04-02-06, 10:31 AM

WE DO NOT know that it was smokey that 'analyzed' locke, because non of us saw it. Whatever came out of the trees infront of locke, again made those trees sway, and smokey doesnt do that, smokey either flys around them like a swift bird or he smashes into them when he gets pissed off (like when he saw Eko).

THE NOISES - This is what makes no sense at all

I watched that scene last night wondering about something. What I found was that when "whatever" is looking at Locke from the tops of the tress, it is making the same exact sound that Smokie did in the scene with Eko. Know how I know? One, I heard it. Two, that sound is none other than that of a male voice moaning, but at a very slow speed so that it pulses.

I posted in another thread (maybe one of Pandoras), that I thought that we were either dealing with two "creatures" or Smokie has two modes. I'm leaning toward the latter at this point. If the sounds are any indication, this is one "beast" or "thing" that has "moods" or "modes" so to speak.

Is Smokie responsible for all of the noises and is Smokie the one and only freaky creature on the show so far? I believe so.

Darko

04-02-06, 10:33 AM

Im still holding to the idea of there being more then one these 'things' on the island. So theres not much Smokey.

LostEmissary

04-02-06, 10:39 AM

I watched that scene last night wondering about something. What I found was that when "whatever" is looking at Locke from the tops of the tress, it is making the same exact sound that Smokie did in the scene with Eko. Know how I know? One, I heard it. Two, that sound is none other than that of a male voice moaning, but at a very slow speed so that it pulses.

I posted in another thread (maybe one of Pandoras), that I thought that we were either dealing with two "creatures" or Smokie has two modes. I'm leaning toward the latter at this point. If the sounds are any indication, this is one "beast" or "thing" that has "moods" or "modes" so to speak.Well, on the map we see the word Cerberus, which is the three headed guard dog in Greek mythology, which people have speculated refers to smokey. If that's the case, then perhaps smokey was named as such becuase he has 3 "heads" - the smoke, the blowing up of trees, and the "reel someone in" ability.

John

04-02-06, 11:15 AM

Well, on the map we see the word Cerberus, which is the three headed guard dog in Greek mythology, which people have speculated refers to smokey. If that's the case, then perhaps smokey was named as such becuase he has 3 "heads" - the smoke, the blowing up of trees, and the "reel someone in" ability.

I was thinking that as I wrote. I think in the scene that I referenced whee Locke first saw "it", it is made clear in retrospect that this is one "thing". Three heads easily fits in that light, as we saw two of the three "heads" there. What happened after the camera went to black? Well, Locke was pretty sure that he'd be ok later on when Swokie was taking him to Wonderland. Did it happen before? I think it's very possible.