View Full Version : The Dharma/Apollo Timeline Theory (WMT)
TheGuinea_Pig
01-24-06, 06:34 PM
OK folks, I promised it and in between minimizing to avoid the boss' querying exactly what the hell they pay me for I have produced the first draft of the Dharma/Apollo Timeline Theory document. Hopefully what's in there is actually worth reading. If not, I will be going through the BSS1 thread to populate and support the theory further, as well as adding to the speculation section, which will be the foundation of my interrogations of oeilsec and co.
Enjoy.
http://wearemassillon.com/lost/Apollo_Theory.htm
truffula
01-24-06, 06:40 PM
That's AWESOME GP!! Great job!! :D
Peace,
Truff
Jeannie
01-24-06, 06:44 PM
Looks great, GP! Since I'm at work I could only skim now, but I'll give it a more thorough read at home. (I definitely need some help on all this, since I haven't been in chat yet and I've missed a ton of stuff. Looks like your document will be a big help to me. Thanks!)
gardenboy
01-24-06, 06:50 PM
so far that sums it quite well - good job GP
timbo910
01-24-06, 06:51 PM
Two thumbs up!!
Very nice, GP. I may have more information you can use in my notes...I'll have to check...
goAlvar
01-24-06, 06:57 PM
Hey GP, thanks! It will surely help us connect the dots! :)
tick tock
01-24-06, 06:59 PM
Finally!
The only thing I would add is about the sections and tunnels, about the other mythological and biblical references (territories of the island), and perhaps clarify the part about dissections- because I thought it was a butcher from the plane who was dissecting people (seems that might be false info). Would also love to get some clarification from oeilsec about the apollo sleeping/awake confusion.
eta...oh, and all the details about oeil and all that. because it all confuses me a bit.
ILoveEko
01-24-06, 06:59 PM
TGP, that is really good. Just read through the whole thing and bookmarked it :)
Liquid Aleph
01-24-06, 07:05 PM
nice job....very helpful to have the timeline summation
it was noel from the plane doin dissections. I will send you a PM GP once I have had a chance to go through notes.
WayOffCourse
01-24-06, 08:23 PM
Sincere thanks GP. When I saw chat last night, all I could think when I saw last night's chat was great I don't even have the Apollo stuff straight and now he's gone and splintered into a few thousand other gods as well.
AWESOME JOB, JIBBA JABBA......Thanks for this, man!
have we got the meaning of Dharma yet ?
and does anyone think Gods" are a bit much ?..How has Dharma made gods ?physical manipulation of genetic's ?or a complete mental/ spiritual understanding of life ?(the quantum hologram)
rottenralf
01-24-06, 11:41 PM
Yung - You must of missed the last map update.
http://www.onentofl.com/sitebuilder/images/205086INpm_w_1_-450x600.jpg
? are you kidding me ?
so what was danielle smoking ?
btw. ralf.. I saw that movie, harry potter and the goblet..good movie ! really, for a harry potter movie, it was damn good !
island_maverick
01-25-06, 12:01 AM
TheGuinea_Pig, quality work. I'd like to splice in a quote from your text on the remote link:
· One of the installed projects centers around human genetic enhancement (Juxtapositional Eugenics Development Institute?). This is where Apollo is created.
o Dharma's (current) goal is to "unlock Apollo on Delos. Once they do this, no one is safe.
o Apollo is "the next step in human evolution".
o DELOS is a project to create the perfect human -- they adapt to the island.
[/quote]
This ties in with my quote about WSM in post #35 on yung23's G.U.T. thread.
the page link:
http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12600&page=4 (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12600&page=4)
my quote (well, Einstein's actually!):
"....to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty... We shall require a substantially new manner of thinking if humanity is to survive." >Einstein
So, comparing the quotes:
Dharma wants to create the perfect human - one that can adapt to the island.
Compare this with Einstein, who said that the human race has to adopt a new manner of thinking to survive, it has to embrace nature, in its entirity.
Could it be that Dharma has taken an over-zealous inspiration from Einstein and, rightly or wrongly, is seeking to force the evolution of Humanity to the next step...?
island_mav.
^That's how I took it, cosidering Walt said it had nothing to do with genetic stuff...they just "adapted" to the environment.
I knew it seemed along the lines of that thread...
they have understood the quantum hologram, they know the spirit and they know matter.
___they have created the first spiritual energy being. (probaly using Hanso, even I played with that idea)
One who can exist in both states....Apollo and all the god BS, are simply project names.this does make sense...maybe instead of using geothermal powersources, they have harnessed the stars as well.Apollo (the NEWAlvar) has called upon the constellations for power, perhaps using an epoch ( the midnight sunrise) to hide this place, along the lines of the wrinkle in time thread...that was the incident. hanso hid it from candle and co. they numbers are used to keep the window open....?things do seem to work if you think of gods as real-life Hanso projects..Apollo did ride on the back of a swan...
island_maverick
01-25-06, 12:24 AM
___they have created the first spiritual energy being. (probaly using Hanso, even I played with that idea).
I like it, a lot.
And now Hanso, perhaps stuck in this alternate state, has smokey as his physical manifestation on the island, repressed frustration and all.
hE HAD MORE BUT i ACCIDENTALLY DELETED IT, HOPE SOMEONE LSE GOT IT....
The containment wall probably isn't the same wall you're thinking of.
The path to change is a painful one, but that doesn't mean Apollo's sickness is THE sickness.
There must have been false Walts when some of the button stuff was said...the button sings a lullaby to something. Is it Apollo? It may be a part of Apollo...or something else entirely.
aggiesean
01-25-06, 03:09 AM
Other things said just now by Adam that Lab "accidentally deleted":
***We never said ANYTHING about genetics, so don't be so quick to assume..note that I particularily liked that one poster's Einstein connection.
***Chimeras, Leviathan, and Eareth...none of those are ours. Sounds like someone's been watching too much Full Metal Alchemist.
They also said that Alvar was not Apollo.
There are some things that tie in, but you obviously won't find huge answers. The main purpose of this all is to provide some backstory and to explore things that will never be explored in the show. In betwee all that, though, are some bits and pieces relevant to the actual continuity.
[scullygirl (http://72.9.235.11/%7Ejfiles/bork/chat/messagesL.php3?From=..%2FphpMyChat.php3&L=english&U=lab5&R=Bork&T=1&D=10&N=20&O=0&ST=1&NT=1#)] so they will cross paths some oeilsec?
[oeilsec (http://72.9.235.11/%7Ejfiles/bork/chat/messagesL.php3?From=..%2FphpMyChat.php3&L=english&U=lab5&R=Bork&T=1&D=10&N=20&O=0&ST=1&NT=1#)] Yes, SG.
yeah, I just got that Apollo is not alvar, from truffs webmaze thread... its damn hard to keep up with you webmazers !
TheGuinea_Pig
01-25-06, 04:18 AM
Other things said just now by Adam that Lab "accidentally deleted":
***We never said ANYTHING about genetics, so don't be so quick to assume..note that I particularily liked that one poster's Einstein connection.
***Chimeras, Leviathan, and Eareth...none of those are ours. Sounds like someone's been watching too much Full Metal Alchemist.
between yours and lab's posts, was that all the clarifications he gave?
He said what WASTE posted, and look at the BSS thread. I am sure more of it got posted there.
Lab is right, the great Truff (:P) posted most of what was going on in bork here http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=327841&postcount=3862 just so we keep it all togethor!
BTW GP your work is awesome!! Congrats
Sarah
xx
Lost Freaks
01-25-06, 01:10 PM
DOES ANYONE KNOW IF THIS IS REAL, OR WHERE IT CAME FROM???
The Guinea Pig’s Loosely-based-on-Lost-backstory-“facts”
Theory of the Birth of Apollo
The text below is a timeline of the formation of the Dharma Initiative and the subsequent creation of Apollo on DELOS based upon the fragmented, cryptic and sometimes conflicting information provided us by various “insider” sources from Waltchat on http://www.bigspaceship1.com (now defunct) and the new Borkchat at http://bork.scifivision.com. These chat tidbits have been transcribed into http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6706, which is where they have been extracted from into this document. There’s still a lot of chat content to merge into here, which I will do over time but for now if you see indented, italicized text, it is “supporting” statements. If there is no indent, it is pretty much theory filling in the gaps. If you have seen any information relevant to the theory below please email them to me at admin@wearemassillon.com and I will add them in as soon as I am able.
One final note before we dive into this: HUGE thanks to the BSS team for putting this ARG/Webmaze together. It’s been an immensely fun experience and there’s more to come that will knock our socks and pants off. Props to oeilsec, walt, Niel, Valentine, Olivie, Apotropaues, APOLLO and the epithets, and any of the crew that I’ve forgotten to mention…. This is all because of you guys!!!
· ~1970: Gerald (Geraint) and Karen DeGroot have a project plan, spanning several subjects. Gerald (Geraint) and Karen DeGroot may be Mr and Mrs Drexler
o See “Orientation” for the most ‘factual’ backing of this part.
o They also said something about "Drexler" being the "father of the monster.”
o Walt is being taken care by an old Hungarian woman by the name of Mrs. Drexler.
· They get funding from The Hanso Foundation and The Dharma Initiative is born.
· A suitable remote test site is located and project bases are setup on “DELOS”
o The island's code name is "Delos".
· One of the installed projects centers around human genetic enhancement (Juxtapositional Eugenics Development Institute?). This is where Apollo is created.
o Dharma's (current) goal is to "unlock Apollo on Delos. Once they do this, no one is safe.
o Apollo is "the next step in human evolution".
o DELOS is a project to create the perfect human -- they adapt to the island.
· The project possibly involves some or all of the following: Genetic Engineering (gene splicing); DNA mutation; Exposure to radioactive material (perhaps why this island was chosen to be DELOS?).
o Dharma has been genetically engineering creatures on the island that he refers to as "chimeras", made of different cells; two in particular are the Leviathan and the Eareth (AKA "Smoky").
o He is dissecting bodies
o Sickness causes evolution.
· Somehow they discover the "secret" of creating the improved species of man. They find a suitable/willing test subject who undergoes the process and Apollo is born.
o Me: who is Apollo? W: they say he is perfect. Me: he adapted to DELOS? W: so they say
· Apollo becomes aware of his new self and his abilities but quickly (probably) his power grows beyond his ability to contain it and he realizes that his abilities are out of control.
o Apollo cannot control his anger
· Dharma tries to assist him in regaining control but he totally loses it, unleashes his power in a completely unfocused and unrestrained wave of energy and creates The Flood (aka the Incident, aka the Midnight Sunrise).
o Alvar/Apollo has evolved and caused the first incident.
o Me: where is Apollo? W: he's asleep somewhere Me: what can he do? W: he made the sun come up at midnight.
o The incident is described as "the sun rising at midnight"
· This event devastates many of the island’s installations and leaves the projects/facility/island in disarray.
· Apollo's mind shuts down under the pressure and cracks like an egg
· the Flood wasn't a real flood, more of an explosion of some kind
· while Apollo is inert, Dharma constructs a holding cell that contains his body and mental essence
o Apollo is behind the wall.
o He is kept behind a containment wall
· His body whithers away (or is destroyed in the Flood?) and Apollo becomes pure psychic energy.
· (somewhere in all of this is a female who he failed to save but I don't think that is critical to the timeline... oh, and she's in there with him... perhaps she was involved in trying to talk him down?)
· Apollo is slowly trying to rebuild himself and as he does so he becomes more aware and more powerful... and able to breach his containment to some degree.
o He can focus it.
· Apollo must be kept awake, they don't want him to dream... perhaps because when he is not awake/alert his fractured mind extends beyond his containment? -- NOTE: Conflicting statements here in chats with Walt et al suggest either he needs to be kept awake or asleep.
o The numbers anger Apollo because they make him sleep.
o When the button is pressed it awakens Apollo.
o He is asleep
o Walt doesn't know why the numbers keep him weak
· Apollo is getting stronger as he tries to repair his mind..... which would mean he should be trying to bring the blot and apotropaeus back into himself, which as sentient entities they are probably trying to resist, as that would "kill" them
· Meanwhile, on the other side of the concrete.... Gerald is trying to recreate the experiment because he thinks on the island they can recreate Apollo and do it right this time.
o They want to create someone stronger than Apollo but one they can control.
o No one else has adapted BUT Walt said that he is told he is close to it.
o I asked if they want Walt to fight Apollo but he said no.
o Me: are they trying to make you grow? W: i think so Me: into what? W: they want me to be like him
Me: like who? W: Apollo
· In order to do this he is collecting specimens (potentially “special” people?) to find the right subject to undergo the process that creates Apollo.
o - he said the names of two other people there (from the plane?) were Chantier and Shandy.
o The people who took Walt think he is "the key", but that doesn't mean he is
o Walt began to evolve BEFORE coming to the project. Don't know why
· Unfortunately (for him) he creates failures... he's been trying and trying but the fugue is causing them all to fail the 'enhancement' process.
o Apollo was the only one evolved by Delos; the rest were failures.
o Me: walt, do you know who took you? Walt: the failures Me: why are they failures? W: mrs. drexler said they couldn't adapt. Me: adapt to what? W: DELOS
Speculations:
Apollo is Alvar Hanso. Once the DeGroots believed they had the “Apollo Formula” ready Alvar stepped in and insisted on becoming the first Next Man.
ILoveEko
01-25-06, 01:19 PM
It's from The_GuineaPig, a user on these boards, lol. He's just peicing together facts and stuff we have gotten from the people through BSS1 and it's affiliates.
He posted it in a thread here. Where did you get the link from?
ETA: By the way, the thread where it came from is here: http://losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13602
Could you imagine how many heads would spontaneously combust if TPTB just turned this "script" into the two hour season finale. I'm talking about the casual viewer whose most advanced connection so far is that Hurley's numbers add up to 108....THE SAME NUMBER IN THE MURAL OMG!!!! ;)
TheGuinea_Pig
01-25-06, 01:28 PM
LMAO..... Lost Freaks, how did you "accidentally" come across that page??
GP, you should hide that thing from the kids. You are going to hurt people. There should be a test or something that you have to pass in order to read it.
1)Who is Vincent?
2)Who is Madison?
3)Who is Vincent Madison?
4)What are the coordinates of Gudgeon Bay?
etcetera, etcetera
oceanic_lisa
01-25-06, 02:16 PM
One day... it took ONE DAY for this to become "potential Gospel"... I LOVE IT GP!!!! Excellent work BTW...:clap:
TheGuinea_Pig
01-25-06, 02:48 PM
GP, you should hide that thing from the kids. You are going to hurt people. There should be a test or something that you have to pass in order to read it.
1)Who is Vincent?
2)Who is Madison?
3)Who is Vincent Madison?
4)What are the coordinates of Gudgeon Bay?
etcetera, etcetera
Yeah that would be great and all except then I wouldn't be able to view my own web page!!!! :D
Lisa: Some theorists (read: Heretics or Atheists) say the same thing about how the Bible gained popularity. :D
raiderfan43
01-25-06, 03:03 PM
We ALL know that GP is an "Insider", he is throwing all this out to keep us off the REAL truth, which is that this Island actually belongs to Morgan Freeman and Tom Hanks, who are in a secret plot to take over the world!!! (JK GP, please dont make Mikas throw shoes a me again)
This really shouldn't be a seperate thread. This needs to be merged with GP's existing Apollo thread. It is all comments relating to that thread and doesn't need another thread. GP, you should ask yung to merge it, other wise you are going to be jumping back and forth between the 2....
TheGuinea_Pig
01-25-06, 03:12 PM
Actually I was just in the middle of posting that somebody should tell Yung to go ahead and lock this thread... but we were busy having fun and I forgot.
Raiderfan, I'm not really so much of an insider as, well, to be honest, on the island!!!!! I was hang-gliding and something started pulling me down against the current and I've been tryig to piece things together since. Fortunately I always hang-glide with my blackberry-enabled laptop and have been able to stay in contact with the outside world. :D
Yung: OK, now you can go ahead and lock this thread. :)
ILoveEko
01-25-06, 03:12 PM
I PMed yung about it after I got your PM lab :)
TheGuinea_Pig
01-25-06, 08:58 PM
OK guys I updated this somewhat and started to build a list of questions at the bottom. I was working on incorporating the Dharma Inc clues but seeing as it was BSS1's chat and BSS1 say he wasn't with them I'm going to assume that, accurate or not, it is not a legit part of their ARG and leave it out (will save me a WHOLE lot of scouring, at least til I get to January). :D
truffula
01-25-06, 09:31 PM
Nice work once again GP! :D
I also have now bookmarked your page there and whenever we get to ask questions, I'll be sure to have it open in another window for quick, easy reference.
Thanks man, YOU ROCK!! :D
Peace,
Truff
GP you totally rock... not only was that an awesome collaboration of information you put togethor, but it makes things for late webmazers like me :p to understand what the heck is going on!!
I will however like to point the Apollo people ;) to http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13866 started by THE AMAZING YUNG! It may have some reference to the awakening of Apollo, and is extremly interesting! :D
xx
dragongrrl
01-28-06, 12:11 PM
I thought i'd put these things together so they don't get LOST (har). They seem important to the timeline story.
date : 7-19-79
picture title : VIJFTIG7 ("fifty"7)
picture : http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b322/dragin1999/VIJFTIG7.jpg
------------
date : 7-23-79
picture title : EZEL ("the stone that shows the way/ the stone of Destiny")
picture : http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b322/dragin1999/EZEL.jpg
-------------------
blog title: PANDORA
date : 4-23-1988
picture title : RAGNAROK ("the doom of the gods", the end of the cosmos)
picture : http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b322/dragin1999/RAGNAROK.jpg
morse text : WHAT HAVE YOU DONE WHAT HAVE YOU DONE OH GOD WHAT HAS HE DONE BRANDON WHAT HAVE YOU DONE
truffula
01-28-06, 04:53 PM
Archiving is a beautiful thing dragongrrl :)
Thanks for posting those!
Peace,
Truff
OK folks, I promised it and in between minimizing to avoid the boss' querying exactly what the hell they pay me for I have produced the first draft of the Dharma/Apollo Timeline Theory document. Hopefully what's in there is actually worth reading. If not, I will be going through the BSS1 thread to populate and support the theory further, as well as adding to the speculation section, which will be the foundation of my interrogations of oeilsec and co.
Enjoy.
http://wearemassillon.com/lost/Apollo_Theory.htm
woww, well researeched
tick tock
01-28-06, 09:59 PM
There are still some things to delete from the timeline.
"evolution causes sickness"
"they are dissecting bodies"
those are not facts according to oeilsec. otherwise, everything else is good. i would still like to see info added about OEIL, the quadrants, and the hatches...only so that we can have all the info on one page.
TheGuinea_Pig
01-29-06, 02:53 AM
It will be there ticktock... and the debunked "clues" will be removed, I'm in the middle of an update where I'm hoping to bring some of the older and more of the newer stuff in together to help flesh this out.
APOLLO LIVES IN T&S !
they are jumping right in now !!
thanks sarahr and TGP and evreybody here. you guys rock !
ETA. they've even found DELOS !
TheGuinea_Pig
01-31-06, 06:48 PM
OK, I've made some minor updates to the theory and also started to add a cast of characters for the Apollo storyline. It's far from complete but I've been working on it while I'm at work... hopefully it'll eventually help people, myself included, keep track of who's who and where their websites are.
GP..The Furies talk on BSS last night... Wilhelm Incident 1978, Orientation vid 1980 refers to an incident. We think Apot got created from Wilhelm and and maybe Apot was part of a bigger personality that has split with one element of it devoid of humanity now termed Apollo. Still can't help wondering what timeframe the Hanso/Candle battle worked in. If for instance it was in 1978 and Hanso's henchman "Apollo" got trapped somewhere having overdosed on XNA, where would that get us?
TheGuinea_Pig
02-07-06, 12:33 PM
I think the basic concept remains the same: They pulled a number (probably 8 ) of test subjects together with desirable physical and/or mental properties (that may or may not have been enhanced) in order to in some way extract some element from each of them and create a 'perfect man'.
From the latest intel, it would appear that whether intentional or not they extracted the entire essence of each of the subjects and tried to contain them in some kind of host (human or mechanical).
But yes, the Wilhelm Incident was 1978, Wilhelm is Apotropaeus and Apotropaeus was born of/with Apollo. Now (and I'm thinking as I type here so bear with me)...
If each of these contained personalities is still (or has become) self-aware then perhaps this is simply a moral battle within the collective. The person that became Apollo revels in the power that he now has and welcomes either his release and/or the birth of Apollo v2.0. Apotropaeus is appalled by what he has become a part of and extends his power to alert those who might be able to prevent the release of Apollo or recreate him.
Alternative theory: Perhaps these 'codenames' were selected before the experiment was even initiated and the people who now embody Apollo and his epithets were pre-selected because of their abilities, attitude and/or other qualities. If that's the case however, what would be the purpose of creating two essences, one of great power and one trying to oppose him?
LostMyApollo
02-08-06, 08:14 AM
Hey GP, this is awesome, thankyou!
I have had an eye on the webmaze since BSS1 launched but unfortunately I don't have the time to keep up with everything that's going on. I feel like I've been playing catch up ever since!
Having all this info in one place certainly fills in the gaps for me, I hope you can continue to add info when it's available.
Thanks again to all the dedicated webmazers, it's been great watching the adventure unfold even if I am too far behind to contribute greatly.
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