The Official Soccer (Or Call It Football If You Really Have To) Thread

[TheBigCat]

I think we now have enough Brits and other assorted folks from places outside the US and Carada to start a thread dedicated to the World's Game. So here it is.

First topic of discussion: I got word form YouFirst that Newcastle have sacked Graham Souness. So what took them so long?

[Ellaroo]

:popcorn:

I'll drink to that.

[camelsmoker]

Not surprising. They finished 14th last season, and are now in 15th place. Bad luck Michael Owen broke his foot.

But this may pave the way for Alan Shearer to (possibly) become manager/assistant manager next season.

[YouFirst]

Ahhh, Cat. 'Bout time we had a thread for FOOTBALL, LOL!

I have no idea what took us so long, maybe they were hoping for a miracle turn around. But last night's match (terrible...) just made up everyone's mind, he had to go.

Now we have to find a replacement to get us somewhere! Some decent defenders wouldn't go unwanted either...

[YouFirst]

Not surprising. They finished 14th last season, and are now in 15th place. Bad luck Michael Owen broke his foot.

But this may pave the way for Alan Shearer to (possibly) become manager/assistant manager next season.

14th, the worst we've ever finished!

You're so right about Shearer, that's what the fans want!

[Ellaroo]

Can't be a one man team though...we're talking about a huge Premiership club with a squad of what, 25 players? Can't blame the Owen injury. Souness obvioulsy knows his football, but doesn't inspire the players.

And I agree, an opening for Shearer...who I believe hinted he'd carry on playing now that Owen is on Tyneside?

ETA: Yes, a...it should be called the Football thread....but the title did make me giggle.

[camelsmoker]

I just checked. Youth academy director Glenn Roeder is taking over "for the immediate future", and will be assisted by Shearer this Saturday at home vs. Portsmouth. Link to NUFC website (http://www.nufc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10278~777529,00.html)

[YouFirst]

Hmmm, it'll be a shame to lose Shearer as a player, but we'd have a manager with first hand experience if he took up the job.

ETA: Thanks for the link camelsmoker!

[camelsmoker]

No prob. I'm a Hammers fan myself (BTW Roeder used to manage West Ham). No offense to the Geordies.

[badboy]

Anybody see Man U v Blackburn? As a BBurn supporter I was loving it, those feckers knocked us out of the Carling Cup. I think all of Man U hate Robbie Savage as well, and TBH I can't blame em. Anyone else think that he wouldn't be so aggressive if his surname wasn't Savage?

On the subject of Souness, what do people see in him? He did crap all at Blackburn and Newcastle. Piss poor manager if you ask me.

[YouFirst]

No prob. I'm a Hammers fan myself (BTW Roeder used to manage West Ham). No offense to the Geordies.

None taken!

Congratulations on the West Ham win yesterday! :celebrate

[camelsmoker]

Congratulations on the West Ham win yesterday! :celebrate


:Cheers: First time we've won at Highbury in 11 years. :Headbang:

[YouFirst]

Anybody see Man U v Blackburn? As a BBurn supporter I was loving it, those feckers knocked us out of the Carling Cup. I think all of Man U hate Robbie Savage as well, and TBH I can't blame em. Anyone else think that he wouldn't be so aggressive if his surname wasn't Savage?

ETA - On the subject of Souness, what do people see in him? He did crap all at Blackburn and Newcastle. Piss poor manager if you ask me.

:rotfl:

I can't think of many people who like Robbie Savage, Man Utd more than most. You all see Ferdinand clip him on the back of the head in one match? LOL

[Magical Trevor]

I used to think Savage was a good player when he was at Leicester (I'm a Man Utd fan as well) but he's gone downhill a lot.

[merry slug]

I love socc- er, football! Even got to go to some of the World Cup games when they were in the U.S. Of course I have no idea about the ins and outs of your teams, but I thought I'd just pop in and offer my :thumbs_up

[camelsmoker]

^^Hey merry slug! I went to the quarter final between Sweden and Romania at Stamford Stadium. Amazing experience! I've got tickets to two matches for the World Cup in Germany, and I hope to be able to get more soon (Damn FIFA regulations!)

[Magical Trevor]

You dont happen to have any spare ones? (Not too subtle hint) What matches you seeing?

[YouFirst]

Who you guys and gals think is gonna take the World Cup then?

[Magical Trevor]

Wow, I just realized that my post 1966 was in this very thread, as an English football (its what it is so dont argue) I cant tell you how cool that is.

[Magical Trevor]

Who you guys and gals think is gonna take the World Cup then?

Brazil hot favourites (as always)
England (well I have to dont I)
Czech Rep (dark horses)

[merry slug]

^^Hey merry slug! I went to the quarter final between Sweden and Romania at Stamford Stadium. Amazing experience! I've got tickets to two matches for the World Cup in Germany, and I hope to be able to get more soon (Damn FIFA regulations!)


You lucky shite! I had tickets to the Orlando games -- work interfered :banghead:, and I only got to go to 3 of the 5 games, but it rocked.

ETA: I also used to go to the Tampa Bay Mutiny games when I lived there.

[Sevag]

Who you guys and gals think is gonna take the World Cup then?

Brazil, no team can compare with them.

They have the players, they have the tactics, and they have consistency.

England will do well, but I do see some silly mistakes costing them. I also expect the media add extra pressure on Rooney to perform every game as if he is the only player England have.

[Magical Trevor]

The most important factor for England is getting Lampard and Gerrard to gel, if they start playing well together then we can roll over most teams.

[badboy]

I gonna be in Germany for the WC, but I don't think I'm gonna be able to afford tickets its great to be there just for the atmosphere though.

The most important factor for England is getting Lampard and Gerrard to gel, if they start playing well together then we can roll over most teams.

Yeah both players are good attacking midfielders though, and I worry that if England got caught on the break and they both were up for the attack it wouldn't be too pretty. Ledley King was damn impressive as a defensive/holding midfielder in a couple of games, if we could squeeze him in there somehow our midfield could be the best in the tournament IMO.

[camelsmoker]

You dont happen to have any spare ones? (Not too subtle hint) What matches you seeing?
Sorry, no spares! FIFA is really strict this time. All tickets are personnalized and IDs will be checked at entry to stadiums.

Anyways, I managed to get two of the matches I wanted.
ITALY - USA June 17th in Kaiserslautern
SWEDEN - ENGLAND June 20th in Koln

I'm psyched!!!
And as an added bonus, my wife is getting us tickets to the Champion's League final at the Stade de France. (she works in the Paris mayor's office):Headbang: 2006 is shaping up to be a good year for me!!

[YouFirst]

Sorry, no spares! FIFA is really strict this time. All tickets are personnalized and IDs will be checked at entry to stadiums.

Anyways, I managed to get two of the matches I wanted.
ITALY - USA June 17th in Kaiserslautern
SWEDEN - ENGLAND June 20th in Koln

I'm psyched!!!
And as an added bonus, my wife is getting us tickets to the Champion's League final at the Stade de France. (she works in the Paris mayor's office):Headbang: 2006 is shaping up to be a good year for me!!

Wanna share some of your luck with us? :p

[camelsmoker]

Oh, BTW I live in France, and most of the experts here are predicting Brazil will destroy any and all opposition, including France, England, Czech Republic, Germany, Spain, Argentina, and every other team in the competition.

I agree.

[Magical Trevor]

Sweden - England is going to be a draw, it nearly always is when we play them (at least 4 in the last 5 if i remember rightly, we've played them a lot)

[Magical Trevor]

I wouldn't call Germany or Spain worthy opposition to Brazil, probably not France these days. They have the same problem as Arsenal do, their only good player is Henry.

[YouFirst]

I wouldn't call Germany or Spain worthy opposition to Brazil, probably not France these days. They have the same problem as Arsenal do, their only good player is Henry.

Agreed. Speaking of Arsenal's problem, Sol Campbell had a bad game yesterday. He better get his game back if he wants to play the World Cup.

[Magical Trevor]

No chance, Rio and Terry in central defence every game. If Campbell plays, he'll score a goal in extra time that gets disallowed for no good reason then we'll go out on penalties.

[TheBigCat]

Sweden-England a draw? You mean like '02? That one really made the Argentines mad.

And just so you all know, I am logged in as SoundersFan at the fans forum of Sunderland's official site. It's a long story how that came about, and I haven't been there in a while because it's really depressing.

[Magical Trevor]

Not surprised if your depressed being a Sunderland fan, don't worry, you'll win the Championship next season.

[badboy]

Oh, BTW I live in France, and most of the experts here are predicting Brazil will destroy any and all opposition, including France, England, Czech Republic, Germany, Spain, Argentina, and every other team in the competition.

I agree.

I think Brazil are over-estimated. They've got skill and pace etc. but I don't think they're all that good when their rhythm is broken and they're outstragtegised (not a word but it should be). If Ferdinand, Campbell and Terry are having a good day against Brazil then I think that goofy little &%*£ Ronaldinho wouldn't know what to do with himself.

[YouFirst]

I think Brazil are over-estimated. They've got skill and pace etc. but I don't think they're all that good when their rhythm is broken and they're outstragtegised (not a word but it should be). If Ferdinand, Campbell and Terry are having a good day against Brazil then I think that goofy little &%*£ Ronaldinho wouldn't know what to do with himself.

IF, Terry doesn't stick his arms wide out for a hand ball like at the Villa game yesterday... And it WAS a hand ball!

[camelsmoker]

I think Brazil are over-estimated. They've got skill and pace etc. but I don't think they're all that good when their rhythm is broken and they're outstragtegised (not a word but it should be). If Ferdinand, Campbell and Terry are having a good day against Brazil then I think that goofy little &%*£ Ronaldinho wouldn't know what to do with himself.
I watched Ronaldinho every week at the Parc Des Princes when he played for Paris SG. I have no doubt in my mind when I say he is the world's greatest footballer. When he plays, he makes his teammates better, and when you have teammates like Kaka, Robinho, Juninho, Adriano, Ronaldo, and Julio Baptista, England doesn't stand a chance.

[Magical Trevor]

Another team with a big shout, Italy have quite a few good playes like Pirlo, and did you see Guisseppe Rossi play for Man U in the FA cup? He could be to Italy what Rooney is to England.

[TheBigCat]

I never said I was a Sunderland fan. I said I was logged in at the fan area of their official site, www.safc.com. Look up Seattle Sounders.

[Magical Trevor]

I watched Ronaldinho every week at the Parc Des Princes when he played for Paris SG. I have no doubt in my mind when I say he is the world's greatest footballer. When he plays, he makes his teammates better, and when you have teammates like Kaka, Robinho, Juninho, Adriano, Ronaldo, and Julio Baptista, England doesn't stand a chance.

England have pretty much the best defence going, with a very strong midfield and proven strikers, whilst Brazil have always been lacking a bit in defence BTW is Cafu playing again, he must be at least 50. A match between the 2 teams will rely on which team is in better form. Doubtless it would be the best game in the tournament.

[badboy]

I watched Ronaldinho every week at the Parc Des Princes when he played for Paris SG. I have no doubt in my mind when I say he is the world's greatest footballer. When he plays, he makes his teammates better, and when you have teammates like Kaka, Robinho, Juninho, Adriano, Ronaldo, and Julio Baptista, England doesn't stand a chance.

Their defence is good but not world class though. Any player, even the best footballer in the world can be man-marked out of a game, and although that applies to England as well with Rooney, he's got the strength and pace to get through what I see as a non-world class Brazilian defence, whereas Ronaldinho would need a fair bit of luck if he wanted to outmuscle King Solomon (Sol Campbell) or Rio Ferdinand.

[camelsmoker]

England have pretty much the best defence going, with a very strong midfield and proven strikers, whilst Brazil have always been lacking a bit in defence BTW is Cafu playing again, he must be at least 50. A match between the 2 teams will rely on which team is in better form. Doubtless it would be the best game in the tournament.

From your comments, I'm assuming you're English. If I'm wrong, sue me.
I'm an American expat who's been living in Europe for 11 years. I don't have the bias many national fans have when judging their teams' merits and deficiencies.

That said, I think England have a strong defense, but again, no match for Brazil's offense.

[Magical Trevor]

I'm not saying we're without weaknesses, Lampard and Gerrard not gelling, the classic problem of the left wing (why on earth did Giggs choose to play for Wales???) and beyond Owen, Rooney and Defoe a lack of depth up front. Most of all an unambitious manager and Beckhams inconsistency. But on our day we can beat anyone (and even not on our day, did you see the so-called friendly against Argentina? We were out of it for good periods of the game.)

[merry slug]

Anyways, I managed to get two of the matches I wanted.
ITALY - USA June 17th in Kaiserslautern
SWEDEN - ENGLAND June 20th in Koln


:pissed: ;)

[badboy]

That said, I think England have a strong defense, but again, no match for Brazil's offense.

But then again I'd say the English offence (including Lampard and Gerrard) would wipe the floor with Brazils defence. I'm wishing for a Brazil v England final now, would be a helluva game.

[Magical Trevor]

I went through this (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2006/predictor/4515694.stm) scores predictor with IMHO fair results and England ended up with Brazil in the semi, would still be amazing though.

[TheBigCat]

I still think Rooney is going to self-destruct. Something like a combination of George Best and Mike Tyson.

Congrads to Blackburn, BTW. Fox Soccer Channel showed the game over here, and it really was a great match.

[camelsmoker]

I still think Rooney is going to self-destruct. Something like a combination of George Best and Mike Tyson.

I agree. Can anyone say Ronaldo '98?

[TheBigCat]

Or Maybe Maradonna

[bellatrix]

im sad Scotland never made to the World Cup..the Tartan Army will not be marching this summer---best supporters in the world :nanabobo:

[Mr. Cluck]

Well, I love soccer... but unfortunately for me, I have to pay extra to watch it on TV.

[TheBigCat]

Hey..If you love the game it's worth it to shell out the few extra bucks a month to get the cable package with Fox Soccer Channel. The coverage is wonderful and they have good programming with some very sharp people. Fox Football Friday with Nick Geber and Steven Webster is great. They do the show live from an English pub in SoCal, and it's generally about the upcoming weekend's EPL fixtures, but they do give some time to other leagues. During the EPL haitus they talk about the MLS matches along with whatever international competition is going on.

[Ellaroo]

I still think Rooney is going to self-destruct. Something like a combination of George Best and Mike Tyson.

I certainly hope not. I was gutted when he left Everton. Yes, it was apparent that he'd eventually leave and Everton couldn't refuse the big bucks. But I honetly thought he'd give us another season.

It's sad he had to go, because when you watch the likes of Gerrard and Carragher, at times it's as if they find that extra yard when they need it, simply because of their unrivalled passion for LFC. (I'd rather watch 11 local die hard blues play their hearts out and get beat than watch a side of over paid, half hearted, mediocre players, with headbands in and their socks pulled up to their thighs - but that's another story.)

As far as Rooney goes, if there is a club and Manager that can avoid a serious meltdown, it's Man U and Fergie. They have a proven record of protecting their young talent. I reckon Rooney isn't afraid of many - but Fergie has to be on of them. Sven on the other hand - I'm not sure about. I just hope Rooney can keep his head when people try to wind him up, which they will.

ETA: YF:Agreed. Speaking of Arsenal's problem, Sol Campbell had a bad game yesterday. He better get his game back if he wants to play the World Cup.

According to Sky Sports, Sol walked out of Highbury at half time in that game. And todays papers quote a player saying that he has personal problems. Also SS says that Big Sam has confirmed his interest in the England job. Good old fashioned English Manager. He'd have my vote. Who would you like to see?

[bellatrix]

anyone watching the Old Firm game thats coming up?

[Ellaroo]

Even though I don't really follow scottish football (is there much to follow ;) ), old firm games are always entertaining. Who's do you support Bella?

[bellatrix]

Rangers! not i should really be admitting that this season!

[TheBigCat]

I checked the schedule and FSC is going to be showing the Man U-Fulham game. The show time is 9:00 here, which is 5:00PM in the UK. I'll have to check the schedule at Premierleague.com to see whether that's live or recorded.

[Ellaroo]

Man U v Fulham, yes that game is on now on Prem Plus so I guess it's being broadcast live over there.

Can't believe the scores are in and YF isn't in here toasting Newcastle's victory. And Shearer finally broke that goal scoring record I heard? Not a bad afternoon, but I guess you were due one.

A win for Everton over City..(just)...so all is well on this half of Merseyside. ;)

[ekko]

I am watching Man Utd vs. Fulham.
The score is 3-2!
A very entertaining match!

[Ellaroo]

I saw Fulham's 2nd goal - thought he should have saved that. The kids have got the damn wrestling back on...I'll be forced into battle for the tele remote shortly.

[camelsmoker]

Holy mother of all penalty shoot-outs, Batman! Did anyone else see the ANC quarter-final between Cameroon and Ivory Coast? In a word - unbef**kinglievable.

90 minutes of yawns, and then during the prolongation they suddenly decide to wake up! Baky Koné scores in the 1st minute of prolongation for Ivory Coast, after coming on as a replacement in the 87th minute of regulation time. Then, 3 minutes later, Albert Meyong Zé equalizes for Cameroon.

The remainder of the prolongation was just as animated, both sides attacking, looking for the win, trying to avoid the penalty shoot-out. No such luck.

And then the penalties. What a scenario! Both teams score 11 penalties each (yes, even the keepers took and scored their penalties), meaning that the first penalty takers had to go again. Eto'o skies his shot, meaning that if Drogba scores, Ivory Coast is in the semis. He shoots, he scores! Unbef**kinglievable!!!

[Ellaroo]

Gutted I missed that...horrid way to go out. But they are so nail biting, even when your own team isn't involved. (Let's face it, we've sat through enough of our own with England.)

And cool commentary Camelsmoker :)

[camelsmoker]

Gutted I missed that...horrid way to go out. But they are so nail biting, even when your own team isn't involved. (Let's face it, we've sat through enough of our own with England.)

And cool commentary Camelsmoker :)

Thanks, Ellaroo. BTW Nigeria beat holders Tunisia earlier, also on penalties.

So, semi-finals are Nigeria vs. Ivory Coast and hosts Egypt vs. Senegal. Looks like good football to me.

And, BTW, I'm not English.

[Ellaroo]

Yes...I'd read other posts of yours...I often use the generic 'we', sorry, no offence meant. ;)

[camelsmoker]

Yes...I'd read other posts of yours...I often use the generic 'we', sorry, no offence meant. ;)

None taken. :)

So, anybody have thoughts on the Champion's League round of 16 fixtures?
Who will win away from home? Who will scrape by with a point + away goal(s)?
Let's hear your thoughts. Here's a refresher:

_______________________1st leg______2nd leg
Bayern vs. Milan _________Feb. 21_____Mar. 8
Benfica vs. Liverpool______Feb. 21_____Mar. 8
Real Madrid vs. Arsenal____Feb. 21 ____Mar. 8
PSV vs. Lyon____________Feb. 21 ____Mar. 8
Chelsea vs. Barcelona ____Feb. 22_____Mar. 7
Rangers vs. Villareal _____Feb. 22______Mar 7
Bremen vs. Juventus_____Feb. 22______Mar. 7
Ajax vs. Inter___________Feb. 22 _____Mar. 14

[Magical Trevor]

Man Utd 4 - Fulham 2
Spurs 3 - Charlton 1

Both great results IMO

[YouFirst]

Newcastle Utd 2-0 Portsmouth

Wawawawawawaw! :D

[Ellaroo]

Chelsea V Liverpool...hopefully will be entertaining...if only to listen to Mourinho whine at the end of the game.

ETA: Gallas has just scored....game on! (And have you seen the linesman - bless, he looks about 12. If you get to watch highlights you should get a shot of him, he's given 6 offsides against Chealsea already.)

[SpidermanHouston]

Houston just got a major league soccer team and we got the worst mascot name ever. Our team is called the Houston 1836. Not the 1836ers just the 1836. 1836 refers to the year Houston was founded.

[Ellaroo]

Sounds like a brand of Lager....lol. Brewed since 1836.

I love the beer advert over here where they take the mikey and offer some ideas to 'improve' our footy. They change the names of our footy teams to make them more American. Merging Man City and Man Utd to make a TEAM Manchester. And someone else gets called the blue sox or something. I think the Monster trucks at half time was a bridge to far. Or could it have been the extra time 'mull tie' ball to liven things up? Has me giggling every time.

The message...You do the football, we'll do the beer. I love that ad.

[badboy]

Yeah I thought that advert was great as well. Stuart Pearce for England manager.

[ekko]

Hello, everybody!

It has been a great weekend with football!
But Chelsea should have lost against Liverpool today.
I'm Man. Utd. fan! ;)
Some fun from the world of football: :D
http://gallery.hd.org/_tn/std/bizarre/football-World-Cup-2002-England-Argentina-highlights-ANON.jpg
Old - scared - ladies! :rotfl:
And Good Night! It's late here in Norway. :sleepzzz: School tomorrow... :(

[Magical Trevor]

Houston just got a major league soccer team and we got the worst mascot name ever. Our team is called the Houston 1836. Not the 1836ers just the 1836. 1836 refers to the year Houston was founded.

You have heard of Sheffield Wednesday haven't you?

[TheBigCat]

I doubt he's ever heard of Schalke 04. And he's wrong. The dumbest team name ever is Real Salt Lake.

[Crandyman]

I doubt he's ever heard of Schalke 04. And he's wrong. The dumbest team name ever is Real Salt Lake.

Yeah...that is just plain retarded. No wonder the US doesn't get any respect when it comes to soccer.

[TheBigCat]

See. Over in England they make jokes about our team names, which admittedly would just not fit there. And here they are trying to make European conventions apply to our teams. Real Salt Lake is stupid because there is no royalty in Utah. Houston 1836 is just a weak attempt that fans are NOT going to like.

On another note, they gave Houston which has no soccer tradition whatsoever a MLS franchise and passed over Seattle again. Maybe the Salt Lake team will end up here. Portland and Vancouver also should have teams. There is a 3 legged rivalry in the USL 1st Div. that goes back to the old NASL. Even the team names have been retained from back then. I doubt that the MLS directors will see it that way, though. The just put franchises wherever Lamaar Hunt wants them.

[SpidermanHouston]

On another note, they gave Houston which has no soccer tradition whatsoever a MLS franchise and passed over Seattle again.

No soccer tradition in Houston???? It is very popular here. Reliant Stadium is constantly selling out when they have games there. Before reliant opened, the Astrodome had soccer sell-outs. I think that's the main reason we got the team. I did a Google search and found an article that mentions soccer here in reliant stadium. I'm sure there are other more informative articles that mention it but don't feel like searching. here's the article: http://www.houstontexans.com/news/news_detail.php?PRKey=1344

[TheBigCat]

Ah yes...Houston Dynamos. part of the old USL. That's United Soccer League. The current organization is the United Soccer Leagues (plural) and is no connection to the old USL. And there was a NASL franchise in Houston for 3 seasons in the late 70s.

The Sounders were one of the founding teams of the NASL and were there almost through the duration of the league, consistantly being among the league leaders in attendance. The team went bankrupt the year before the league folded, casualties of a horrible concept known as Indoor Soccer. I won't get into it, but it was the main reason that US National Team development was shot backwards 50 years.

Eleven years ago soccer was re-organized with the MLS being the top-filght league and the A-League being the second tier. FC Seattle Storm was renamed with the old franchise name and history and won 3 A-league championships. Last year there was another re-organization with all of the lower leagues combining to form the USL. The USL 1st Div. is still the second tier of professional soccer in America (and is the only league in the world with teams representing 3 nations) and the Seattle Sounders won the inaugural USL 1st Div. title last October with an exciting shoot-out victory over Richmond at Qwest Field.

Yes....No soccer tradition in Houston. That's what I said. That's what I meant.

ETA: Harry Redknapp played his last professional game for the Sounders in 1978 when the then-team youth coach was pressed into playing duty due to injuries. So don't believe him when he says his entire playing career was split between Pompey and Hammers.

[TheBigCat]

Some observations.

One: Why is everybody debating the outcome of the World Cup? Germany is going to win, just like every other host team that isn't a charity case. The only debate is whether Kahn or Lehmann is going to be in goal for the final, and I wouldn't want to be the one having to decide that.

Two: Just heard on Sky that Freddie Adu is almost certainly going to sign an adult contract with Chelsea when he turns 17 in June. If you don't know the name he is a Guinean-born American (his family emigrated when he was 8). He has been playing for D.C. United for the past 2 seasons and recieved his first full international cap last month in a friendly vs Canada. No less a legend then Pele has raved about him. I have been expecting him to sign with a EPL side eventually, and am only surprized that Chelsea is the team. I was expecting Man U., as they have a greater scouting assets in the states.

[camelsmoker]

Why is everybody debating the outcome of the World Cup? Germany is going to win, just like every other host team that isn't a charity case.

Granted, the last time Germany hosted the World Cup, they won it, and against an amazing Dutch side. This time, the competition will be much fiercer, with Brazil head and shoulders above the pack. I honestly can't see Germany winning this time (believe me, I have imagined dozens of scenarios.) They have talent, sure, and the home crowd, to boot, but the backbiting in the German FA (the Beckenbauer-Klinsmann potshots, and the Lehmann-Kahn debate) will be their Achilles' heel.

I stand by my prediction that Brazil will win their sixth trophy. Most likely losing finalists IMO are:
1. Argentina
2. England
3. Germany
dark horses: Italy, France, Netherlands

[badboy]

Why is everybody debating the outcome of the World Cup? Germany is going to win.

Germany aren't the team they used to be dude. They've got 3 world class players that I can think of - 2 of them previously mentioned keepers, Lehmann and Kahn, and Mikhael Ballack. I don't think they'll even get past the quarter finals.

Also - Anyone see that Spurs striker Mido has been kicked out of the Egypt squad prior to the African Cup of Nations final? Are they crazy?!?! He is their best player by far, and just 'cos he was pissed for being substituted the manager has given him a 6 month ban from international football. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.

[Magical Trevor]

Germany aren't the team they used to be dude. They've got 3 world class players that I can think of - 2 of them previously mentioned keepers, Lehmann and Kahn, and Mikhael Ballack.

Wrong, they have one world class player (Ballack), one ex-world class player (Khan) and one player who puts in a good match every now and then (Lehmann).

Anyway, FA Cup replays tonight... Everton - Chelsea and Middlesborough - Coventry. I'm going for the upset in both, Chelsea to lose as something has to go wrong for them at some point this season, and Coventry to win as Middlesborough aren't playing particularly well at the minute.

[TheBigCat]

What did France do in '94? I know what they did in '02. They didn't make it out of group play. Okay, Spain and Italy failed as hosts recently, but the '98 result tells me that the embarrisng trend of host triumph is alive and well. I need to go find some World Cup history. Anyone know any good sites?

ETA: I found a very comprehensive site on the history of the World Cup.www.worldcup-history.com. Go figure. And I learned what France did in '94. Stayed home. They probably didn't want to come here anyway. Not that I blame them. We should have stayed home in '98.

So. From non-qualifiers to Host Nation Champions to 0W 1D 2L, no goals scored with a team full of what you would call "world class players". Want me to give you a list of the guys on that team? Barthez, Coupet, Vieira, Trezuget, Candela, Djorkaeff, Makelele, Desailly, Cisse, Zidane, Wiltord, Henry, Silvestre, Lizarazu, Micoud, Sagnol.

Either '94 and '02 were fluke failures on the part of the French, or all of that talent is uncombinable into a solid team and '98 was a gift to France on the 200th anniversary of the French Revolution. Half a sec...Isn't this year the 200th anniversary of the official dissolution of the Holy Roman Empire. Do you think that they would give Germany a gift commemorating their freedom from having the Pope decide who their ruler would be? Well, whatever the reason I stand by my prediction of another host-nation victory.

[TheBigCat]

My predictions on the UCL round of 16:

Bayern-AC Milan.......AC Milan
Benfica-Liverpool......Liverpool
Real Madrid-Arsenal...Arsenal..tough call, 2 teams in disarray in their respective leagues
PSV-Lyon................Lyon
Chelsea-Barcelona....Chelsea..Probably the best match-up of the round
Rangers-Villareal.......Rangers
Bremen-Juventus......Juventus
Ajax-Inter Milan........Ajax......Probably the weakest match-up. Any of the other 14 teams would have loved to draw either of these 2.

Anybody else?

[camelsmoker]

I'm watching the final of the African Nations Cup right now. 0-0 at the end of regulation, lots of chances, good attacking football on both sides. Drogba unbelievably skied a shot from 5 meters out in the second half, and Egypt had a goal disallowed for offside. All-in-all a sweet match, even the officiating is good.

OK, gotta go, the prolongation is starting. Will post with results at the end of the match.

[deana]

^I'm watching that too.Egypt just missed a penalty-we'll see how it all turns out.



ETA:typo.

[camelsmoker]

^^ Right. Forget what I said about the officiating. Baraka (Egypt) miscontrolled the ball, went after it with his foot up, the Ivorian defender (I think it was Kouassi) got the ball, didn't even touch Baraka, who of course dove theatrically. The Tunisian ref whistled for a penalty, hotly contested by the entire Ivorian squad. Drogba got a yellow card for his protestations. Finally, the captain Hassan steps up, and HITS THE POST!!!! Tizié had dived the right way, anyway. (He might have got a touch, I couldn't tell from the replay)

Justice.

[deana]

^Yeah,that was a moment of craziness out there on the pitch,and a really bad decision by the referee.Looks like we're going into penalty shootout-what a great final!

[camelsmoker]

Exciting stuff all around. 0-0 at the end of prolongation. Penalties.

[deana]

Oh well.Egypt won-but in my opinion Ivory Coast deserved it.I can't wait to see how they will stir things up in their group in the World Cup.

[TheBigCat]

That's the group we are in. Along with Italy and Czech Rep. So either them or os is likely going to finish with no points or both are going to finish with 1. Just guessing, mind you.

[deana]

That's the group we are in. Along with Italy and Czech Rep. So either them or os is likely going to finish with no points or both are going to finish with 1. Just guessing, mind you.
I think you meant Ghana.;) Ivory Coast is in Group C,the best and most interesting group in my opinion,along with Argentina,Netherlands and Serbia &Montenegro.

[TheBigCat]

Oops...My bad. Ghana...Cote d'ivoire. West coast of Africa.

[Kira1908]

Wrong, they have one world class player (Ballack), one ex-world class player (Khan) and one player who puts in a good match every now and then (Lehmann).

Anyway, FA Cup replays tonight... Everton - Chelsea and Middlesborough - Coventry. I'm going for the upset in both, Chelsea to lose as something has to go wrong for them at some point this season, and Coventry to win as Middlesborough aren't playing particularly well at the minute.
Ever heared of Klose, Huth, Kuranyi or Asamoah? They are all great players as soon as they find to their game. Klose and Huth anyway. Our problem is just we have many young players with little experiance, the potential is there though.

Mod Edit: Fixed your English. Hope you don't mind.

[YouFirst]

Newcastle 2- 1 Aston Villa!

Looks like we're back on track. :D

[TheBigCat]

Newcastle 2- 1 Aston Villa!

Looks like we're back on track.

Sacking Souness is already paying dividends. Now lets see if the Mags can win away from St. James.

And kudos to "Boro for playing above themselves and delivering Chelsea their worst League defeat of the Mourinho era. Okay, only their third defeat, and a solid spanking it was.

[lockerates]

latest news just in from the african nations
Eygpt.....8
Ethiopia.....didn't

[YouFirst]

Anyone know the score for USA vs Japan? I turned it off when it was 3-1 to the USA.

[Magical Trevor]

I guess I'm the only one to be glad that Chelsea finally got beat. Only thing that could have made it better would have been Arsenal losing too.

[lockerates]

I guess I'm the only one to be glad that Chelsea finally got beat. Only thing that could have made it better would have been Arsenal losing too.
Im glad myself, although i have to admit they are a great side, most would be with their money.
I assume you're either Man U or Spurs trev?

[Magical Trevor]

Im glad myself, although i have to admit they are a great side, most would be with their money.
I assume you're either Man U or Spurs trev?

Man U, but I've always followed Spurs as a second team.

[TheBigCat]

Liverpool 1 Arsenal 0

That hot sensation the Devils are feeling on the backs of their necks is the breath of the Reds.

That cold sensation the Gunners are feeling is the glares from their fans.

And Liverpool square up with Man U. in the FA Cup this weekend, right? Oooh, I hope that FSC shows that one.

[lockerates]

Liverpool OTF

[NickTheLion]

Arsenal were proper dog sh1t last night.
Liverpool pi$$ed all over 'em.
24 attempts at goal, 13 corners.
Shame the mighty reds ain't got a decent striker I tell thee...!

[lockerates]

hey nick! get ur arse in gear and get us more Bollywood lost!! i even stuck a link to your thread in cousin eddie's

[island_maverick]

When is Garcia going to bin his thumb-sucking goal celebration, FFS?!

btw - Henry couldn't have been less interested yesterday!

[lockerates]

Thats because Henry is a "flat track bully" he will do the business and look world class when playing medium opposition, but as soon as it comes to a big match he goes missing, for example any european game, or international

[TheBigCat]

Did you notice that by the end of the game Adebayor's kit was filthy with Anfield mud while Henry's looked like he'd just put it on.

Blackburn 2 Sunderland 0

Just ended, and now I think that the coffee will stand a chance to keep me awake since it's main competition is over. Bellamy scored both and hardly needed to work at either. Freidel could have stretched out between the sticks and caught a good nap and still kept a clean sheet.

[Magical Trevor]

I don't think Henry could care less about Arsenal now. For the first part of the season, Arsenal only got results when Henry performed well, and now he just seems to have decided he cant be bothered to carry them any more. Arsenal are going to get slaughtered by Real in the Champions League, and Henry will probably move to Spain in the summer, to either Real or Barca.

[taoeros]

I don't think Henry could care less about Arsenal now. For the first part of the season, Arsenal only got results when Henry performed well, and now he just seems to have decided he cant be bothered to carry them any more. Arsenal are going to get slaughtered by Real in the Champions League, and Henry will probably move to Spain in the summer, to either Real or Barca. Yeah I agree with you, he will be off in the summer for sure. He's 28 now (I think) and a new challenge will be too good to turn down. Especially as it seems that Wenger's "transitional" Arsenal squad, seem a long way off from the Arsenal of old..

I doubt they will even qualify for the Champs league this season..

[island_maverick]

Not convinced Real M will find it that easy against Ars. They're not exactly setting the world alight at the moment either. Even that pony Beckham can't get in team these days.

As for Henry, lockerates is spot on. There's probably not even 5 games in his Ars career where he's 'come to the party' for a big game.

I remember a big score against Liverpool last season, when he caressed a hat-trick as he danced past players, but generally speaking he is the classic 'flat track bully' (nice one lockerates!). Speaking of which, I wonder what Graham Hick is up to these days..?!

[lockerates]

I can't wait for Henry to go, if he goes to Real he will struggle to get in the side, but they will stroll past arsenal because he will go missing again. I just think he is far too overrated.

[TheBigCat]

SO how about some chatter about the F.A. Cup action coming up this weekend.?

Oh..SpidermanHouston can rest easy. The Houston MLS franchise, which is formerly the San Jose Earthquakes, will not be named 1836. They are going to give the team a standard American sports team name, possibly Mustangs or some other such thing that will reflect the lack of originality when naming pro sports teams in Texas.

[SpidermanHouston]

Oh..SpidermanHouston can rest easy. The Houston MLS franchise, which is formerly the San Jose Earthquakes, will not be named 1836. They are going to give the team a standard American sports team name, possibly Mustangs or some other such thing that will reflect the lack of originality when naming pro sports teams in Texas.

Wow, you really are a bitter Seattle sports fan. "Wah-wah-wah, nobody cares about Seattle sports so I put down other cities and states." Our sports team names reflect the state of Texas. The Houston Rockets, Astros, Aeros and Comets are associated with Houston's NASA Space Center and Cowboys, Rangers, Spurs, Oilers, and Texans are of course easily associated with the state of Texas and it's cowboy and oil history. Sorry, we don't have some silly bird mascot like a seahawk. I guess mariners is very cool and original also.

[TheBigCat]

Three things, Spidey...

1) Ease up. You are bordering on a personal attack.

2) You proved my point for the benefit of our British members. I know that there is a lot more to Texas than Johnson Space Center, the Old West and Oil, but you'ld never know it from the professional team names, and you just listed them off. For a comparison, lets look at another state with lots of professional sports teams: Florida. There's Marlins and Dolphins, so you have a fish and a marine mammal, Magic is a nod to Disney, Panthers and Jaguars, a couple of big cats. Buccaneers is a pirate reference as was the Rowdies. See? All over the place. And up here in the region we refer to locally as Cascadia we have 3 major cities. In addition to Seattle there is Portland, OR and Vancouver, BC. for pro teams we have in addition to the Seahawks and Mariners which you mentioned SuperSonics (a nod to Boeing), TrailBlazers (Lewis and Clark), Grizzlies started out in Vancouver, Lions of the CFL, the 3 Soccer teams have all retained the names of the old NASL franchises (Whitecaps, Sounders, Timbers). Lots of variety there.

3) Thank TPTB that you wont be saddled with the team name Houston 1836. Does anyone in Utah ever go out in public wearing Real Salt Lake gear? Then again, they really should have renamed the Jazz whan the team moved from New Orleans so maybe the folks there just don't care about team names, thinking that what's inside the uniform is more important than what's on the outside.

[SpidermanHouston]

You proved my point for the benefit of our British members. I know that there is a lot more to Texas than Johnson Space Center, the Old West and Oil, but you'ld never know it from the professional team names, and you just listed them off. For a comparison, lets look at another state with lots of professional sports teams: Florida. There's Marlins and Dolphins, so you have a fish and a marine mammal, Magic is a nod to Disney, Panthers and Jaguars, a couple of big cats.

I'm not sure how Jaguars and Panthers are original team names. Every city has a high school that has those cats as a mascot. I don't think Astros, Aeros, and the others are common like these two team names. I guess that's your opinion of team name originality, but go ahead with your previously interrupted soccer discussion.

[lockerates]

I'll throw my hat into the arena here and just say i prefer the traditional names like "united" "city" and such, a fancy name doesnt make a side.

[camelsmoker]

a fancy name doesnt make a sideAgreed.
Proof:
Last five winners of the UEFA Champion's League:
Liverpool FC
FC Porto
AC Milan
Real Madrid CF
FC Bayern München

Not very fancy names; I don't see any Astros, Seahawks, or other malarkey.

[sonofethan]

I'll throw my hat into the arena here and just say i prefer the traditional names like "united" "city" and such, a fancy name doesnt make a side.

Reminds me of that Budweiser advert:

Manchester City and Manchester United.....Why not just Team Manchester!

Your names are a bit boring...
Portsmouth FC why not Portsmouth Pirates:pirate:

Hehe good to see our cousins oversea's dont mind poking fun at themselves sometimes!

[SpidermanHouston]

I personally like the space theme in Houston team names. I don't want some random animal mascot. I wish our NFL franchise and MLS team would have had a space themed name also. But the fans chose both the NFL and MLS team names by voting from a ballot that had preselected team names. These were the choices that were on the ballot for the MLS soccer team: Americans, Apollos, Buffaloes, Bulls, Eagles, Gatos (Spanish for Cats), Generals, Houston 1836, Lonestars, Mustangs, Stallions, Stars and Toros (Spanish for Bulls). I wanted Apollos to keep the space theme. 1836 won and Lonestars came in second. Many of these names were on the NFL ballot also. Texans won and Toros was a close second.

[TheBigCat]

Agreed.
Proof:
Last five winners of the UEFA Champion's League:
Liverpool FC
FC Porto
AC Milan
Real Madrid CF
FC Bayern München

I don't know about Porto or Bayern off the top, but Liverpool are the Reds, Milan are the Italian for "Red Devils" and Real Madrid are Los Galacticos. In the meanwhile...

Gunners
Villans
Baggies
Hammers
Citizens
Black Cats
Latics
Addics
Toffies
Pompey
Saints
Blades
Royals
Eagles
Magpies
Owls
Trotters
Canaries
Wolves
Foxes
Brummies
Spurs

See my point? Those are all teams currently in either the EPL or the Championship. And to an American ear quite a few of them sound silly. Especially Baggies and Toffies. (Speaking of Toffies, I'm glad they finally got their game back on track.) But that's the tradition, and I'm not going to cast aspersions on it.

As for Houston, I was expressing dismay at the thematic limitatinns of the state of Texas's team names, not their popularity among high schools. Chief Sealth High School was the Seahawks 70 years before we had a NFL team. Big deal.

However, If Spidey is just going to nit pick everythiing I say....

[badboy]

Sorry, we don't have some silly bird mascot like a seahawk. I guess mariners is very cool and original also.

I gotta admit Mariners is a pretty cool name. Got nothing on Rovers though I'm afraid, especially with Blackburn before it ;) .

As to the Henry discussion, he really does make Arsenal the top-of-the-table side they are. On match of the day (British 'soccer' program) they did a little table of how many times Arsenal won and lost in relation to when Henry was playing; and it was pretty obvious they need him bad. They just don't have another experienced clinical finisher, so IMO, no Henry = no goals for Arsenal.

[SpidermanHouston]

As for Houston, I was expressing dismay at the thematic limitatinns of the state of Texas's team names, not their popularity among high schools. Chief Sealth High School was the Seahawks 70 years before we had a NFL team. Big deal.

However, If Spidey is just going to nit pick everythiing I say....

This was your original post:
They are going to give the team a standard American sports team name, possibly Mustangs or some other such thing that will reflect the lack of originality when naming pro sports teams in Texas.


You claimed our team names are unoriginal although many of our team names are unique and uncommon. Texas is proud of their famous history so it is shown on our team names. You claimed Mustangs is an unoriginal team name but then later name other animals like Panthers, Jaguars, grizzlies, and bears and other "standard American sports team names." Like I mentioned above, I would rather have the space theme and not random animals like some cities have. I wouldn't want the Houston Leopards or Houston Spiders just to have different themes.

[TheBigCat]

You claimed our team names are unoriginal although many of our team names are unique and uncommon. Texas is proud of their famous history so it is shown on our team names. You claimed Mustangs is an unoriginal team name but then later name other animals like Panthers, Jaguars, grizzlies, and bears and other "standard American sports team names." Like I mentioned above, I would rather have the space theme and not random animals like some cities have. I wouldn't want the Houston Leopards or Houston Spiders just to have different themes.

My original comment was in reference to thematic originality. The city has a maritime tradition. One of the largest ports in the country, in fact. Houston Seafarers would be nice and original and also a pleasant contrast to names that seem chosen by the PR deartment of the Texas Chamber of Commerce.

As for the commentary on Henry, I think his effectiveness as a finisher is very much diminished buy the lack of good playmakers to accompany him. Arsenal hasn't fielded a complete team all season, and rarely did so last year, but letting Vieira go was the largest factor in their collapse. The game at Anfield showed that well. If you just look at the disparity in corners and time of ball control you could just think that Liverpool generally outplayed Arsenal. I watched the game, and it wasn't general. It was specific. Liverpool's control of midfield play was absolute. Henry is an incredibly talented finisher, and Reyes, Pires, Bergcamp and Van Persie are good too. But there's a huge hole in the middle of the formation that Hleb and Fabregas can't fill. I don't think that Real are going to beat them in the Champions League, though. Los Galacticos should have their kit sponsored by Depends.

[lockerates]

those names you pointed out are all nicknames bigcat, not the actual team name

[TheBigCat]

those names you pointed out are all nicknames bigcat, not the actual team name

Semantics. The "official teamnames" concept started out as nicknames on college campuses. Harvard Crimson and Yale Elie. Professional sports, a concept that dates to the mid 19th century both in America and Britain adopted the concept, but it was a baseball team, the Cincinnati Red Stockings, one of the founding teams of the National League in 1876, that was, as far as I know, the first to make the nickname and official part of the name of the team.

Still, I find the entire concept of "The way we do things here is autimatically superior to the way they do things there" to be very shallow and devisive, and should always be opposed at every turn.

On another note, Fox Soccer Channel is showing a spot froma new advertizing campaign from Nike featuring Eric Cantona as part of an group of people taking over a broadcast and urging fans and players to take a stand against negative play ad instead utilize the Brazilian saying of Jogo Bonito, "play beautiful". They have lots of shots of guys like Ronaldinho displaying incredible moves in the background and also Henry's backheel goal with a Charlton (?) defender climbing up his back. (Please correct me if I'm wrong about who that goal came against). Anyway, it's an awesome spot, with the Nike Swoosh only appearing briefly so that you don't get the feeling that they are just hawking gear.

[lockerates]

Bigcat sorry to offend, i didn't mean to sound like I was saying our team names are better, anyways im from Northern Ireland, one stereotype of the Irish is that we are big drinkers, and since one of our premier league team names is "Lisburn DISTILLERY" we kind of leave ourselves open to it :D. Ive seen the advert you are talking about, they did a british version too i think, with Rio, Anton, Ronaldo, Rooney and some others, i love the idea of playing the game beautifully, since it is "the beautiful game" might i add that Eric's acting is brilliant in the advert.

[camelsmoker]

http://nikefootball.nike.com/nikefootball/index.jsp#,en;jogatv,1,0

looks like there are 3 more spots that will be released this week.

[nimrod]

Hope I don't offend, just want to get something off my chest.

It comes an interesting time for football these adverts in support of playing the beautiful game, and I speak as one who's been watching football for a long time. The reality is that cheating in the game has been getting progressively worse and is incentivised by the lack of any action taken by footballing authorities against it and the fact that when successful cheating can make a massive difference in monetary turns for football clubs.

Don't kid yourself its only the usual suspects who do it, over the years I've seen Dennis Bergkamp falling over mysterious blades of grass, Gianfranco Zola make an artform out of tucking his back foot into goalkeepers' challenges, Paul Scholes (in an England shirt) carry out a humiliating no momentum dive in the last world cup and Michael Owen happy to admit that if there's any contact, he's going down. It culminates ultimately in one of the worst offences last season, El Hadj Diouf's dive to win a penalty for Bolton, not being criticised by his manager but defended. They all do it, he claimed. Outrageous, so will the FA stand up for the game and charge him or his player? Do they hell, condoning cheating is ok for them, its calling a ref a "big time charlie" that really brings the game into disrepute in their opinion. How ironic it will be if England do appoint Bolton's manager as their next - that would really embrace this "no to cheating" drive wouldn't it?

Football, at least in the UK, is on a knife edge. Having watched a few televised sub standard FA cup matches over the weekend, I can say for entertainment value this weekend's football was probably on a par with being forced to watch the whole series of Winter Olympic curling events. The sport is dominated by the fear of failure, and the consequential use of tactics to win at any cost so desperately epitomised by fans favourite "Big Sam". So enjoy your successes all you glory glory glory hunters while the game continues to suffer. Beautiful game? More like Emperor's new clothes.

[TheBigCat]

Awesome post, nimrod. Sure it's just a ad campaign, but the only people who at present have the power to bring about a change in the in the game are the fans. If all that they care about is their side winning whatever the cost the game is going to continue to degrade because the press are not going to print anything unless the fans push for it and management of the league isn't going to do anything unless the press is on thier tails over it.

Beautiful Game or Emporors New Clothes? It's really up to the fans. Are you tired of watching diving that would do Greg Luganis proud? Are you sick of the fact that it has become a standard tactic? Say so.

[camelsmoker]

Joga Bonito!

Workers Of The World Unite!

I Like Ike!

Seriously, though, as long as football is "business first, sport second", players, managers, and league officials will continue to look out for #1. Screw the fans who want to see a beautiful game. To them (not all, but a saddengly large proportion), it's all about the money. Shocking really, considering how many players come from blue-collar, lower-class, or even third-world backgrounds.

[Magical Trevor]

The fact is that without fans, football, like any other sport is nothing. It makes sense to make the game entertaining, either in the sense of the amazing skills of the Ronaldinhos of this world, or seeing a team pull together and play their hearts out, otherwise the fans wont turn up, then the sports income is cut off completely.

[camelsmoker]

Speaking of beautiful football, I'm watching the UEFA Champions League multicast on Canal+ (French cable). As I write, its the 70th minute in the matches:

Real Madrid 0 - 1 Arsenal
goal: Henry 47th min

PSV 0 - 1 Lyon
goal: Juninho 64th min

Benfica 0 - 0 Liverpool

Bayern 1 - 1 Milan
goal: Ballack 22nd min
goal: Shevchenko 57th min

[camelsmoker]

And Luisao scores for Benfica! 85th minute!

[camelsmoker]

So, Benfica wins at home. Arsenal and Lyon get terrific away wins, and Bayern is held to a draw by Milan.

Great stuff, though. Here's hoping tomorrow night's just as good.

[YouFirst]

Real Madrid did pretty bad tonight. They just didn't seem to be motivated today and taking Robiniho off was a mistake IMO. If they had to take someone off it should have been Ronaldo - that boy's gettin' lazier...

[island_maverick]

Is it just me, or did Cicinhio seem to be one of the nastiest, pettiest, most unsporting players I've seen for a long time? Makes VanNistelHorse look sporting.

[SonOfSawyer]

IS it me or is the Italian teams reall strong this year? Milan impressed me against Bayern and Juventus is just too much. Maybe it will be an Italian team for the UEFA. Oh I almost forget about inter milano. And yes real madrid was depressing to watch :)

[SonOfSawyer]

I am a big soccer fan and I have just discovered this thread (i didn't think to search for soccer thread in a lost forum :S ) but now that I have discover this thread and with the world cup comming up ! heh I'm I in paradise ? okay that's it for tonight i will have to put the bong down and go to sleep :)

[island_maverick]

It looked like the Madrid players were the ones who had been using a bong last night.

[TheBigCat]

I agree that Cicinho was acting in a very poor manner. I attrubute to two reasons. He was regularly getting undressed by Reyes, and the match refs were not letting him get away with what Gary Neville can do with impunity.

I predicted that Arsenal would get by Real because Los Galacticos are getting old. Read post 123 of this thread ^^^. Meanwhile, the youth movement forced upon Arsene Wenger by a spate of injuries is starting to gel. I know it's too soon to be making predictions for next season, but I have a feeling that Arsenal is going to be a lot stronger of a team next year. Lack of depth has been a real problem, but it seems that they are taking strides to remedy that. Now they just need to fill the Vieira-shaped hole in the middle and find someone capable of filling in for Henry.

To change the subject, is it time for Sir Alex to step down and if it is, who would you like to see replace him? Should they hier someone with a Man U. pedigree like Bryan Robson who has ben mentored by two coaching legends or Mark Hughes who has been doing good things just up the road in Blackburn, or should they go the same route Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool went in hiring their current managers and get someone from outside the orginization and look to the continent to find someone who knows how to coach winners, maybe steal the coach away from some team like Juventus or Werder?

[lockerates]

Looking forward to the teddy bear's match tonight, hoping they can pull something off, it'd be great to see them advance to the quarters.

[TheBigCat]

Champions League round-of-sixteen games played Tuesday...5 goals total.
Games played Wednesday...The Werder-Juventus game produced that many goals alone and the 8 teams combined to wrinkle twine 16 times. Did soneone say "Silly old game"? So far the elimination rounds are excitment everywhere. Special kudo the Aresenal and Barca for winning tough away legs, Rangers for fighting back to draw level and Inter for gaining a road draw after being down 2 goals at Amsterdam Arena.

The tension is going to get tight over the next two weeks as nobody is going to go into 2nd leg play with any greater than a one-goal deficit. Basically, anything can happen.

Also, is anybody going to respond to my question about Man U.?

[island_maverick]

I agree that Cicinho was acting in a very poor manner. I attrubute to two reasons. He was regularly getting undressed by Reyes, and the match refs were not letting him get away with what Gary Neville can do with impunity.
Mr Neville has been an unchallenged transgressor for many a year. The great Gary Neville myth, that he's actually any good. More like, he's the only half decent right back England have had for ten years. I suppose he's energetic up and down the touchline, but too often the top players have been able to get round him. I am reminded of Del Piero skipping by him for fun.

Good shout about Arsenal, by the way. If they stick it out for a bit longer, their youth approach will pay BIG dividends. Wenger's been blooding some of the younger players in the Worthless Cup this year, the Madrid game was tangible proof that this is starting to pay off. I thought the right back (Eboue?) was immense, I'd get him in the team permenantly now, in the place of that joke, Lauren (why is he so overrated, dreadful, dreadful player).


To change the subject, is it time for Sir Alex to step down and if it is, who would you like to see replace him? Should they hier someone with a Man U. pedigree like Bryan Robson who has ben mentored by two coaching legends or Mark Hughes who has been doing good things just up the road in Blackburn, or should they go the same route Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool went in hiring their current managers and get someone from outside the orginization and look to the continent to find someone who knows how to coach winners, maybe steal the coach away from some team like Juventus or Werder?
Don't even think about getting a pedigree player in. Robbo would be a massive mistake. Too negative, not forward thinking, poor with the media and not what I'd call inspirational in the dressing room. Mark Hughes is an interesting one. Too early for him at the moment, I suggest, but he seems to have more about him than the likes of Robbo. They'll look at him in ten years time.

For now, I think they will go for a top line coach with European experience, although they don't strike me as a club who would want a non British manager. The England job makes things difficult for them now. I think O'Neill would be a top target of theirs, but he has personal problems. Eriksson is an interesting choice, but perhaps too much baggage. My top tip is that they go for Cappello. He's even said he wants to manage in the Premiership. Sounds like a come and get me plea.

[TheBigCat]

Mr Neville has been an unchallenged transgressor for many a year. The great Gary Neville myth, that he's actually any good. More like, he's the only half decent right back England have had for ten years. I suppose he's energetic up and down the touchline, but too often the top players have been able to get round him. I am reminded of Del Piero skipping by him for fun.

Earlier I made a questioning comment about a fan at Anfield throwing a half eaten hamburger at him. I got my answer yesterday when FSC showed footage of him showing up traveling Reds fans at Old Trafford. I had thought that the F.A. fined people who do stuff like that.

For now, I think they will go for a top line coach with European experience, although they don't strike me as a club who would want a non British manager.

That had occured to me. I think that Glazer is a bit leery, and probably wanting to not rouse the anger of the Manchester faithful. With Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal having managers from the continent and loading up on non-British players he might want to keep as much of a British flavor to the team as he can and still have a winning side out on the pitch. I think that the furmula of relying on a solid youth-academy system for the core of the team and augmenting that with strategic aquisitions which has served Man U. well for years is still valid, and that Glazer is probably going to stay with it. Complement it with a British manager could go a long way towards making him accepted. Alan Curbishley comes to mind as someone who has a good long Premier League experience, but that's just a suggestion and I don't want to have to dodge bricks if I ever travel to south-east London.

Alternately, it seems to me that Germany is an largely untapped market for talent. Off the top of my head I can only think of two Germans in the EPL, and one of those already plays for Man U. (I'm talking Hamann, I know that Heinze is Argentine.) He could grab a manager from the Bundesliga who would bring some young talented players with him, particularly if my prediction of yet another host-team victory comes true this summer.

[island_maverick]

Earlier I made a questioning comment about a fan at Anfield throwing a half eaten hamburger at him. I got my answer yesterday when FSC showed footage of him showing up traveling Reds fans at Old Trafford. I had thought that the F.A. fined people who do stuff like that.
Yep, this time the FA actually showed some spine and fined him a relatively large (yet miserly in comparison to his wages) fine. Although this was probably borne about more as a result of the FA fining two players earlier this season for similar, yet slightly less serious offences.

Suffice to say it hasn't gone down well at the "Theatre Of Drones". For years their players have transgressed safe in the knowledge that there would be too much mite against reprisals. Now, with Chelsea flexing the FA's bank account with pseudo fans after a quick fix, they are responding in kind by averting their attention elsewhere...and moreso at Old Trafford than ever before.


I think that the furmula of relying on a solid youth-academy system for the core of the team and augmenting that with strategic aquisitions which has served Man U. well for years is still valid, and that Glazer is probably going to stay with it. Complement it with a British manager could go a long way towards making him accepted. Alan Curbishley comes to mind as someone who has a good long Premier League experience, but that's just a suggestion and I don't want to have to dodge bricks if I ever travel to south-east London.
Great point, Glazer would somewhat augment his place in the fans eyes by going for a high profile British manager but, frankly, they don't exist anymore - not unless you are talking Martin O'Neill teritory (although not my personal favourite, for other reasons).

As for the youth system, this is somewhat a semi-myth. The team that spawned Beckham, Neville, Scholes, Giggs was a legendary youth capture. The team have rightly benefited from this for years. But that kind of talent does not come along very often, and rarely, ever in one go. Ferguson, in some regards, got very lucky but deserves the credit for being part of the team that identified them in the first place.

All I'm saying is that youth setups, at the top level, are largely a misnoma. The most fruitful setup is that at Liverpool FC, they have been feeding players in to the first team for years but the rest of the team hasn't been up to standard to help them develop fully. Macca, Fowler, Owen are just some who could have won things at Anfield has some of the purchasing decision been better chosen to fit around them.


Onto new things, what do you think about the Del Horno sending off?

Forget the red card for a minute - what about the play acting, from both players? Absolutely dispicable, IMO. When I played football I never, ever, felt the urge to play act. What is it about top flight players that makes them become shin pad wearing babies who wouldn't know one end of a muddy field from the next?

[TheBigCat]

I'm watching Fox Football Friday right now and I am amazed that the hosts Nick Geber and Steven Cohen, two guys who are blatantly fans of Chelsea and Liverpool respectively and never miss a beat when it comes to trashing Arsenal, fell all over one another in a hurry to praise the Goons for their play in Madrid, even going to far as to individually praise the efforts of the entire starting line-up (except Hleb, who the never had forgiven for not being Vieira).

Onto new things, what do you think about the Del Horno sending off?

Forget the red card for a minute - what about the play acting, from both players? Absolutely dispicable, IMO. When I played football I never, ever, felt the urge to play act. What is it about top flight players that makes them become shin pad wearing babies who wouldn't know one end of a muddy field from the next?

Good question. Obscene quantities of money? Honestly, though, it didn't look like that much play acting to me. Del Horno delivered a body check that usually requires wearing ice skates to accomplish, and even though a muddy pitch is a lot softer landing area than ice, that still looked painful. Still, it seems like pro footy players train themselves to roll around screaming every time somebody bumps them a little.

And since Morinho was spending so much time jabbering how Barcelona has such wonderful theaters so the people who play football there MUST be taking some good acting lessons, NIck and Steven decided that the best actor award for the month of February was going to go to someone who has apparently been taking lessons in the fabulous London theater scene, Arjen Robben for his red card-drawing dive opposite Pepe Reina.

[TheBigCat]

Some time last week, maybe Friday, ESPNSoccernet (www.soccernet.com) reported Sir Alex as saying that if Man U. finish up the season trophyless again he is going to retire. So does the League Cup really count?

[lockerates]

I think the league cup counts, its a trophy after all, and every premiership side were in it.

[island_maverick]

It does count, but only to those teams that don't have a chance to win any other trophy. And it is a way into Europe, albeit through the soon-to-be defunct UEFA Cup.

Since Chelsea have been elevated into the top tier, it makes the Premiership less of an option for the previous incumbants who, almost by default, were able to consider it as a home banker every other season.

The desperation at Old Trafford was growing. Somewhat of a crisis had begun to form, almost by osmosis, thanks to the situation they found themselves in when they failed to win the Premiership for the second season in a row last year. And this year they are nowhere near it either. And, lets not forget the dismal European failures. So the League Cup became an option.

The situation for Ferguson was made worse when the Glazers took over. Businessmen demand results, regardless of whether you are now competing in an oil billionaire's playground. The League Cup win could be the de-rigeur now, at Old Trafford, given their hugely imbalanced team and the juggernaught challenge offered by Chelsea.

At least we got to see Rooney and Saha together, on a big stage. And, IMO, it looked so much more mobile, more potent than VanN and Rooney. Although, one has to respect VanN's goal record, it is second to few. I just get the impression he has lost some heart, mobility, pace and strength in the past few months, so maybe he is going to be moving on soon. And, since Beckham left, taking with him those booming inswinging crosses, VanN has lost a crucial suplly line.

mav.

[TheBigCat]

Yeah. But what seemed to me, or maybe it was just the way the press were reporting it, was that Sir Alex was saying that he was going to base his future on the outcome of one game in which his team was heavily favored. It really makes me wonder if they would not have placed so much importance on winning the game if they weren't already eliminated from European competition and the FA Cup and facing that fact that there is no catching Chelsea this year after going cupless last season. But it could be very strongly argued that Man U's lack of titles lately has much more to do with Abramowicz's deep pockets and the normal vagarities of sport than any diminished capacity of their manager.

When Sir Alex does retire the entire soccer playing world is going to pause to honor him, and in a hundred years they are still going to debate in the pubs of Manchester whether Busby or Ferguson was the greatest manager in Man U. history (or maybe somebody who isn't even born yet). But I'm not goimg to be the one to place any conditions on when that should be.

[island_maverick]

Well, I totally agree about the League Cup thing. Man Utd would not have given it half as much consideration if they were in with a shout of the Premiership or Champions League. It wasn't so long ago that Utd didn't even give a monkeys about the FA Cup. Now they hunt for the scraps off the bone offered by the League Cup.

I would disagree somewhat on the reason for the Utd decline. The rot was starting to set even before Abramovich turned up. The Chelsea situation has just accelerated the decline. The catalysts for their success were already on the way out at least three years ago. The impressive yet equally hateful Keane was beginning to be plagued by severe injuries, while Scholes started to dip his form and get the odd niggles. Giggs lost his zip and Beckham left.

As for 'Sir' Alex (please, I cannot allow him to be referred to as such, unless you mean it in irony, he devalued the knighthood title so as to render it pointless), I'm not sure how great he will be regarded outside of the UK.

Even inside the UK there is divided opininon, although perhaps this is more to do with years of unsportsman-like behaviour as opposed to his managerial record. Across Europe he has many equals and quite a few seniors. He won one Euro title, yet look at Capello et al. Repeated Euro titles, different countries etc. Now that is a record.

[Magical Trevor]

Well England pull out another last minute friendly win after a decent performance as well. For once the myriad of substitutions actually payed off, Cole was fantastic, Carrick caught the eye and Crouch made his ridiculous height work for hm again. Many positives for England. As for Uruguay, they defended well and scored an insanely good goal (but I doubt Pouso could hit that again though), but after the match England won against Argentina, it seems the South American teams don't fare so well in the closing stages of the game, this could be interesting come the World Cup.

[badboy]

Hahaha Uruguay got jacked. When will the South American countries learn? That Uruguayan goal was awesome, full credit to that geezer, that takes some technical ability to pull that off.

[island_maverick]

And what planet was Rio on?....Planet crack? Get rid.

King can do a more honest job. Woodgate would, if he was ever fit. Campbell could, if mentally right, and so long as Sven takes off his Rio blinkers.

Great goal though. He hit that real sweet. I thought they controlled a lot of the game, but didn't create too many clear chances. As you say, interesting to see that that was two South American teams who faded badly at the end, remembering the Argentina game.

[TheBigCat]

What about that funny kit that Crouch was wearing? 21 on the front and 12 on the back. They should give him that for every game.

[lockerates]

crouch 21 the score 2-1, ooooohh spooky
lets face it, one bad game for Rio and everyone goes mad, he is the best england have to offer, i agree King is a good player, and his versitility guarantees his place to Germany but he isnt the centre back that Rio is, Woodgate is just a racist who is always injured, and Campbell? dont make me laugh, the guy was great in his day, but last i heard he was in the dressing rooms at Highbury trying to climb into his own boots, he has lost the plot. I'd stick with Rio and JT in the centre. I just hope Sven doesn't take that Neville clown, he is pure dogs dick.

[TheBigCat]

I'll be willing to bet that whoever takes over is going to dump Rio for Anton. That's just speculation, though.

Do you guys in the UK use the term "Go-To Guy"? He's the guy that when it's getting late in the game and you desperately need someone to produce the winner you put the load in his shoulders because he's the guy you know you can count on. In basketball Michael Jordan was the ultimate go-to guy. You could make a career highlight reel just of his game-winning shots. The only people that I can see stepping up into that role on the current England squad is Lampard and maybe Gerrard. None of the strikers, though. Well, there's still 3 months to sort all that out.

You know, I never thought I'd see the day that Arsenal beating Fulham 4-0 at Craven Cottage would be considered a mild upset. But considering that almost all of the Cottagers 32 points this season have come at home and the Gunners came into the game having lost 8 league games already this year well, it WAS a bit of a surprize. So Arsenal is currently in 5th place and Fulham is 16th. These two teams came into the game only separated by 9 points. The league this year amounts to Chelsea is incredible, Man U, Liverpool and Tottenham are having very good seasons, WBA, Birmingham and Pompey are woeful, Sunderland flat out sucks, and the other 12 teams are basically a log jam with Arsenal being on top with 44 points currently and Fulham at the bottom 12 points back of them. Had Fulham won the gap between 5th and 16th would be 9 points. (Blackburn 43, Middlesboro 34), the gap 4th to 5th would be near that and 16th to 17th would be more.

So, yeah...all the analysis done, it was a bit of an upset.

[YouFirst]

Woohooo, Newcastle Utd!

That's four games out of five we've won since Glenn Roeder took over, and one draw. Things are lookin' up for us, shame it's so late... :(

[lockerates]

Rooney seems to be taking that role bigcat, after he got injured in the euros england didn't seem to have a prayer.
We don't really use that term though.

[Billy Shears]

I'm into indoor soccer. Been a Baltimore Blast fan since 1983, and they've always been competitive. Would love to see an outdoor game in D.C. someday.
Does anyone have any info on former Manchester United F Kenny Cooper. His father, Kenny Cooper Sr, was a championship winning coach in Baltimore in the 80's. He's in the soccer Hall of Fame, as well.

[Magical Trevor]

Well, it looks like Man U were very lucky to beat Wigan tonight, as a United fan I'll admit that. But, I always say that to suceed a team needs 3 things: talent, spirit and luck. When you are trying to compete with Chelsea (who have been very lucky on occassion this season) you need all the luck you can get.

[island_maverick]

Yeah, Wigan were absolutely awesome tonight. The defeat was harsh. But Utd can do that (well, so can all the top teams), all it takes it a couple of mistakes.

Somehow Paul Jewell has fashioned a team of journeymen and youthful talent into a well accomplished, technically creative outfit. And what movement. It killed Utd time and again.

[TheBigCat]

FSC showed it live and again delayed 5 hours. I got to watch it the second time (5:00PM here). Gotta say that it really is games like that one that are the reason I watch soccer.

I think in the second half of the season it has become apparent that the team which Jewell has put together has gotten about as far as their limited talent can go on heart. If they don't outdo themselves over the summer on transfers I will have them at the top of my betting list for relegation. If you want to disprove the old adage that says that it's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog, look no further than Sunderland. Of course, it helps if the dog is really a dog, not a prairie dog.

Alright, here we go with the return legs of the first knock-out round of the Champions League. As I mentioned earlier, of the 8 matches there are none where the two teams have more than a single goal differential. Real Madrid are going to have to win by at least a 2-1 scoreline at Highbury to advance. (or win 1-0 and get lucky on PKs). Ain't gonna happen. Chelsea facing a tougher task at Neu Camp, that is a definate possibility. I'll have to check the listings, but I think ESPN2 is going to be showing that game live. I hope so.

He he he...the next 2 days are going to rock!

ETA: Additional.
Speaking of Sunderland, I just got the news that they sacked Mick McCarthy. I don't really know what more he could have done given the infinitesmal talent he had to work with, but being logged into the fan area at safc.com I have gotten e-mail notes all season containing MMC's personal mesages to the fans, and honestly I get the impression from them of a man whistling while the house is burning down. I haven't actually visited the site since November. Too bleak there and I am too busy here.

[Magical Trevor]

Hehe... A man walks into a sports shop to buy a football, so the assistant hands him one, and he holds it to his ear and shakes it. "I dont want that one, its a Norwich City ball" he say and puts it down. The assistant hands him another and he does the same, and says "Don't want that one, its a Newcastle ball." He does the same with a third ball and say "No, thats a Sheffield Wednesday ball." The assistant is intrigued at this point and asks him what he is doing. He says "Well, I shook the first ball and it sounded like a canary, so its a Norwich ball, and the second sounded like a magpie, so its a Newcastle ball." So the assistant asked "Did the third ball sound like an owl seeing as you said its a Sheffield Wednesday ball?" The man replied "No, it was going down."

[TheBigCat]

Wednesday going down?...only if Millwall succede in pulling their heads out.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Jose, Jose, Jose....:sigh: Chelsea's task was simple: first thing, score twice. Not easy, but if any team in the footballing universe could manage it, well...yeah. Nothing else would matter if they did not get those 2 away goals back. Intsead they came out trying to prevent Barca from scoring. Now they play that style as well as anybody, but they can play attacking ball when the have a mind to. (I have noticed that they don't usually do that until they have been scored upon. They are content to beat you 1-0 unless you score, at which point they turn on the burners and beat you 4-1) And when Chelsea fail to come up with those vital 2 away goals, Mourinho whines about what happened 2 weeks ago. What did he say? Something about how the teams played even when it was 11 vs 11 on the field.

Let me clue all of you in on something. Roman Abromovich is not a patient man. When I look at him I see George Steinbrenner. In the first 15 years that George owned the Yankees he had a revolving door installed on the manager's office. He hired and fired Billy Martin 4 times and Bob Lemmon 3 times, and had at least 7 other men in the position. (Interesting to note that as he has aged he has gone to the other extreme and kept Joe Torre for far too long). Roman is just like George was back then, impatient to win. Finishing second to an Arsenal team that managed only the second unbeaten season in the history of the FA wasn't good enough to keep Claudio Rainieri employed so he got the axe. Last season they ran away with the league, but was it Mourinho who was responsible for that or Peter Cech? Remember how I mentioned Sir Alex's comments about the importance of winning the League Cup? Well, we know that Chelsea are going to win the EPL again, but I have to believe that if they fail to win the FA Cup then Abromovich is not going to be able to extend his patience with Mourinho's mouth any longer. He's probably already looking for a replacement, and I think that he just might be looking at Luxemburgo.

[Ellaroo]

OK, so Liverpool failed to deliver last night and even their '12th man' the Kop couldn't help their Champions League Campaign from ending all too soon.

I know I should be mature about it and mourn the loss of yet another Premiership Team before the quarter final stages. Alas....I cannot lie.

Liverpool got the easiest draw of all the Premiership teams and I must confess that I enjoyed watching them go out last night. I fear the relief my only be short lived, because if I have to witness one more special edition T-shirt, Car sticker or even Credit card worshipping the all conquering, 5 times European Champions I may have to eat my own head.

[Magical Trevor]

Anyone think Jose was trying to emulate Sven when he made a daft substituion, taking Cole off and bringing Huth on, a defensive player for an in form attacking player when you need 2 goals. That said it all for me.

[island_maverick]

Yep, sllight touch of the madness. Thought his tactics were totally wrong, too. Handed the game on a plate to them.

What about the Ars v Real game last night. What a breath of fresh air to be entertained so highly, IMO. Was one of the best 0-0's I've seen. The pace and accuracy of the passing, the close control, the movement. And for much of the first half, Arsenal swamped them, Real looked totally bewildered by the pace of the attacks.

I'm no Arsenal fan (trust me, I'm a Wednesdayite - no laughing in the back row) but I love to see good football. I haven't been entertained like that for some time. I was impressed with their new right back, Eboue. Lost his man at the far post at times, but that is inexperience. His pace and movement going forward were exceptional, and generally his covering work and tackles were top drawer. Surely this spells the end for that joke of a player, Lauren?

mav

[island_maverick]

Well, we know that Chelsea are going to win the EPL again, but I have to believe that if they fail to win the FA Cup then Abromovich is not going to be able to extend his patience with Mourinho's mouth any longer. He's probably already looking for a replacement, and I think that he just might be looking at Luxemburgo.

BC, I do enjoy reading your posts. I just wish I had time to reply to them in detail.

I am interested by this idea about Abramovich looking for a replacement already. I was wondering how things would be received when Chelsea went out to Barca. I still can't work out Abramovich's level of passion for the game. He sits there and laughs during games (seeing his mug on TV is winding me up now) but is he switched on enough to start looking for a new manager?

I mean, at the time he appointed Mourinho, there was only one option...him. But now he would have to do some leg work, and know his game - know the top managers out there.

For heavens sake, please don't tell me he would solely listen to that halfwit Peter Kenyon. I do wonder if he got that oaf in place just do his legwork for him, sort of like a 'ask no questions' right hand man. If so, does Kenyon have a shortlist from Abramovich...or does he make the list for the Russian...?

mav.

[Magical Trevor]

Found this (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/funny_old_game/4783576.stm), and can I just say, Cameron Diaz supports Brentford! WTF?!?!

[TheBigCat]

Well, as if starting 2 of my countrymen (including one from my city) wasn't enough to make me a Reading fan, knowing that Kate Winslett is one might just do it.

Mick Jones and Glen Matlock are QPR fans. Why doesn't that surprize me? I wonder why I don't see Gavin Rossidale along side them. Pete Towshend as well. He did an album entitled "White City: A Novel", and I think I remember reading that he is from Shepherds Bush.

[TheBigCat]

In leiu of actually being able to watch a game, the running commentary on ESPNSoccernet's Game Cast is pretty good. This morning I caught the last third of Man U - Newcastle. It was interesing. Tale of the game was all of the yellow dots in and around the Magpies penalty box indicating shot locations and 3 white dots in the Man U end. From what I could see it looked like Rooney was so determined to get his hat trick that he was blasting away every chance he could get. And why not, Wayne? You're sitting on a brace and your midfielders and defenders are totally shutting down the other team.

As for Newcastle, if you are going to crash back to reality, Old Trafford is as good a place as any to do it. Gotta say though, that we have been given in the last month a glimpse of the kind of season they would have had if they hadn't been so patient with Souness. Challenging for a place in Europe again, most likely.

[island_maverick]

Rooney is an awesome player. And he shows the determination that many players his senior lack. He plays like we would play, given the opportunity, and skill. Just why is it that so many pros, esp in the top flight, seem intent to swan through, just do a job.There are millions who would trade places with you, my friends.

Rio Ferdinand is a prime example. He represents everything that is wrong with the modern game. Aloof, money-centric, lazy and self absorbed, and not to mention arrogant beyond his right. 'Forgetting' his drug test was hilarious if it wasn't so serious. And then, after months on the sidelines, supported by a full wage and an honourably protective employer, he dallies over a new contract, becuase it wasn't 130k, rather just 115k. Get a grip, you oik.

As for Newcastle, well, we will see what happens at the end of the season. They are sort of playing well now, perhaps as much to do with not having Souness around as it is Roeder's abilities as a manager, but there is still some short falls in the squad up at St James' Park. The centrebacks are car accidents waiting to happen. And I'm not sure there is any money left in the coffers to get serious in the summer transfer spiral.

mav.

[TheBigCat]

I still don't know about Rio. To be sure, two years ago Man U were hanging right with the Invincibles despite being between "Deities" (Beckham and Rooney) at the time until two things happened. Howard was benched in favor of Carroll and Rio "forgot" his drug test. By the time Sir Alex salvaged whatever was left by restoring Howard to starting Utd. were looking up at Chelsea. I have to say that that was the last time that the presence or absence of Rio Ferdinand in the line-up mattered in such a way as to make him valued.

As an aside, I recall that when Van Der Saar was purchased from Fulham last summer one of his most prized assets was his Schmeichelesque ability to communicate with his defenders. Well, either that's not the case, or Rio is deaf, because that little incident of his heading the ball backwards when VDS was running up to deal with the ball should NEVER have happened.

[TheBigCat]

Let me just take a moment to discuss Robbie Savage. Now I didn't see the game. I only read the match reports. I haven't even seen a clip of the "hand ball" that led to his sent off. The reports that I read are courtesy of the 2 footy sites where I get most of my info, premierleague.com and ESPNSoccernet and the feeling that I get is that the second card was given because the match referee knew beforehand that Savage had never been sent off, despite his reputation of being a hot head, and he wanted to by the first to do so.

It reminds me of Gaylord Perry. He is a Hall of Fame pitcher who won over 320 games in his Major League career, mostly with Cleveland and San Fransisco. In 1981 Seattle aquired his services, and in May of that year he won his 300th game against the Yankees at the Kingdome.

Perry had the reputation of throwing a spitball. For those not aware, the pitcher does not actually use saliva or phlegm, but instead will surrepitiously either apply a slight amount of vaseline to his index finger or nick the ball with something sharp hidden in his uniform. This is done to impart a certain motion to the ball which would be impossible otherwise. That it is very rare for a pitcher to actually be caught speaks to the either the rarity of pitchers throwing "spitters" or the ease with which concealing the doctoring is accomplished. In fact, I know of only 3 cases in recent years of a player getting caught, and Perry was one of them. In 1982 he was ejected from a game after an umpire caught him not actually throwing a spitter, but throwing a pitch with a motion he described as "un-natural".

In fact, Perry has never actually confirmed that he threw an illegal pitch, nor has he ever denied it. The motion which the umpire called "un-natural" is exactly the same motion as the split-fingered fastball used to great effect by recent Hall of Fame inductee Bruce Sutter, and Sutter recently revealed that the secret to the pitch was to throw a 4-seam pitch and squeze with his thumb at the release so that it wound up in between the index and middle fingers. This imparted a spin similar to a rifle bullet, but off-center a bit so that the bal would move up and inward to a right-handed batter.

As a personal note, I have managed to achieve the same motion by gripping the ball across the seams with my fingers splayed wide. The guy who was catching for me was impressed, but he was used to catching kids who were taught to start the forward motion with the ball behind them near their belt where as I started mine by bringing the ball straight up to behind my head in a techinque I learned from watching Tom Seaver and Luis Tiant, two guys whom todays kids never heard of.

So where this is going is that it seems to me that Savage was ejected Saturday for the same reason that Perry was ejected from a baseball game 24 years ago: reputation alone.

[Magical Trevor]

Well done Fulham, beating Chelsea, fantastic result. This leaves the gap at the top of the Premiership at 12 pts, and Man Utd have a game in hand. Now Chelsea have clearly lost that invinciblity factor, could they still lose the title. Remember, Man Utd have won the title from worse positions than they are currently in.

[TheBigCat]

Remember, Man Utd have won the title from worse positions than they are currently in.


Did some checking, and indeed they have. If it happens again, it's a good thing for Mourinho that the Chunnel is in operation, because Abramovich would run him out of town on a rail and we wouldn't want him to drown before he reaches France.

Yeah...Bravo Fulham. The only thing that would have made the game better for me is if McBride had found some twine.

Well, that and the little matter of the post game "incident" not happening.

[camelsmoker]

I'm a big Paris St. Germain supporter, and I have a question for big European football fans.

Recently, Jean-Michel Aulas, the charismatic and extremely successful president of l'Olympique Lyonnais (Lyon), announced that he would be interested in investing in PSG if Canal+ decides to rupture its ties to the Parisian club. For info: Canal+ is the French cable giant who (for now) detains all diffusion rights for Ligue 1 matches. They have also been the majority shareholders in PSG since 1991.

After the fusion of TPS-Canalsatellite, there has been enormous pressure from within the new merger, as well as from without, to sell PSG to a consortium of private investors, such as Aulas.

I, personally, have a great deal of respect for Aulas. Not only is he a self-made millionaire (his company, Cegid, is a leader in European business software publishing), but has transformed Lyon from a second-division laughingstock into a European powerhouse. OL is practically guaranteed an unprecedented 5th successive championship trophy, and is a Champion's League quarterfinalist for the 3rd straight year.

Aulas is also one of the most influential members of the G-14, leading the charge in the battle against FIFA for financial compensation for players injured during international matches.

OK, sorry for the lengthy bio. My question is this: Is there a precedent in Europe for a club president to be a shareholder in another club in the same top-flight division? What would the repercussions be?

Thanks for listening; I'd appreciate any input.

[NickTheLion]

Interesting question Camel, but to be fair it's difficult to comment on because I don't think it's something that's happened before with two big clubs over here.
In England, ownership is done slightly differently to France. There is less emphasis of a single person in charge. It's usually run more like a limited company with a board of directors, a chief executive and an elected chairman of the board. These people often remain behind closed doors and aren't in for the attention unlike a lot of French, Spanish and Italian chiefs such as Aulas, Perez and Berlusconi respecitvely. The latter of which did of course have to stand down as President at AC Milan two years ago though as a conflict of interests was considered possible as he's also the Italian Prime Minister! Big characters who in my opinion get involved in more than they should, such as buying players and selecting coaches, which should be the managers tasks.
As such, no single person is likely to have the spending power to buy multiple clubs. A company is unlikely to do so because football clubs are notoriously bad investments. Seldom will a big investor make a profit due to the high wage demands of the players and high transfer fees required to gain success.
Thus, and finally coming to something near an answer for your question, people only invest heavily in football clubs if they have a massive interest in the club and have more money than sense. So if they are a huge supporter of the club they'll pile their millions in but would never want to invest (and therefore support) another club.
I'm pretty sure there aren't any official football rulings against someone owning two clubs, the Monopolies and Mergers Commission may block the move. If the MMC sanction the purchase though, the main repercussions will come in the form of supporters angusih, particularly if the two clubs are fierce rivals.

Hope that helps.

Good to see some of you yankees embracing the beautiful game!

.

[island_maverick]

There have been some flirtations with dual sharedom, as it were, although perhaps not in the same division.

I only have vague memories, but Robert Maxwell, in the 80's, owned Derby County and had a major shareholding in Oxford Utd (old First and Second divisions respectively).

It seemed to stay off the radar until it looked like Oxford might get into the top division during one season and alarm bells rang. A ruling was brought in to prevent dual share interest above a certain percentage.

Something I have found curious was the recent Chelsea v CSKA Moscow matches in the first stage of the Champions League this season.

Abramovich is major share holder at Chelsea and is either major shareholder at CSKA or one of his oil companies is the primary sponsor. Certainly a potential conflict of interest.

Can you imagine CSKA going balls out to beat Chelsea, and doing so, or injuring a key Chelsea player? The fear of Financial withdrawl, shares or sponsorship, could have affected their performances.

mav.

[YouFirst]

Well, Newcastle are out of the FA Cup... :(

I don't think anyone thought we could actually win the game, but it was still horrible to see the look on Alan Shearer's face as he walked off the pitch. :(

[TheBigCat]

He's had a great career. It's going to be a while before anyone breaks his Premier League goals mark. Wasn't he on the Blackburn team that won the Prem? So he does have one winner's medal.

One Quarterfinal left and it's down to that last 4 teams standing for the FA Cup.

[TheBigCat]

The Merseyside Derby was a great game except for one thing: The ref showed a lot of cards. I think Everton players alone were shown 7. And from what I could see every single card was well warranted. I was actually holding my breath when they showed Duncan Ferguson warming up on the sidelines. The thought was that that would be a good way for the game to be evened at ten men each.

Seriously, what's he even doing back in football this season. Seven game suspension? Punching an opponent in the stomach deserves a year's ban. The footage from that should be in Cantona's Nike commercial.

On thing that was mentioned was the there has been an increase lately of fouls whistled for players going up to head the ball leading with their elbows. I'm wondering if the refs should start showing yellow for that on the basis of dangerous play. The keeper for Stuttgart (or was it Hamburg?) got a broken cheekbone a month or so back from just that.

[Magical Trevor]

On thing that was mentioned was the there has been an increase lately of fouls whistled for players going up to head the ball leading with their elbows. I'm wondering if the refs should start showing yellow for that on the basis of dangerous play. The keeper for Stuttgart (or was it Hamburg?) got a broken cheekbone a month or so back from just that.

That is something that will never be welcomed in England. Its very much part of the English game, and twice in recent years (World Cup 98, Euro 2004) England (or more specifically Sol Campbell) scored a goal in Golden goal extra time that was dissallowed for just that, only to see them lose later on. The fans will hate it. I also see more heads clashing when players don't lead like that than elbows connecting when they do, which is more dangerous for both players.

[TheBigCat]

I also see more heads clashing when players don't lead like that than elbows connecting when they do, which is more dangerous for both players.

They do have headgear now that is designed for soccer players. Unfortunately, the only way it's going to become used at the professional level is if it becomes mandatory. It's good stuff, though. padded, snug fitting and it protects the "hat band' area of the head while leaving the top open to air. Best of all is that it is soft so it can't be used as a weapon, American football helmet style. It doesn't, however, protect the face, which is the part of the head most at risk to flying elbows. It also has the drawback that it would reduce the pace possible for a headed ball. Only slightly though, but enough that it would give credence to self-styled "purists" lobbying against the device's mandatory usage. To those people I would reccomend that they compare pictures of old-time ice-hockey players with today's.

[Ellaroo]

Big Cat:
On thing that was mentioned was the there has been an increase lately of fouls whistled for players going up to head the ball leading with their elbows. I'm wondering if the refs should start showing yellow for that on the basis of dangerous play
Foul play is one thing and no one wants to see footy players injured - but in reality it is impossible to jump up to head the ball with out using your arms for maximum levitation. We'd be watching 5 a side before half time if everyone was booked for using them. I think we have to rely on the ref's penalising players when he believes there was intent, rather than an accidental clash. As for head guards, I can't see if happening. But then again I never though we'd have an England captain who wore skirts and his wife's thongs. So what do I know.

And give Big Dunc a break! If anything I think he gets penalised more than most during games because of this reputation. (Granted - he's earnt it - but has paid the price.)

[NickTheLion]

Head gear would never take off in England because it would make you look like a little fanny. You'd get the sh1t ripped out of ya. Rugby's far more physical and most players don't wear protective gear. We just like to keep it real over here I think.

As for the Merseyside derby, there were a lot of bookings, Everton got 7 and a red, and got a £25k fine for it. All deserved. No point though as that amount of money is nothin' to a Prem club. Which is the problem with Chelsea. They are the dirtiest b*stards, they cheat every game, con the ref, surround the ref, and tap up players. Some of these things they get fined for, but in a money no object scenario this doesn't really matter. Until they start docking points for their off the pitch antics things won't change.

PS. I absolutely despise Didier Drogba. (Does anyone know of a hate club I can join?!)

[Ellaroo]

Nick the Lion:Which is the problem with Chelsea. They are the dirtiest b*stards, they cheat every game, con the ref, surround the ref, and tap up players. Some of these things they get fined for, but in a money no object scenario this doesn't really matter. Until they start docking points for their off the pitch antics things won't change.
The hounding and harrassing of ref's needs to be addressed by the FA. I agree that financial penalities will have no effect. I watched Chelsea last week and couldn't believe that I was watching 'professional' footballers. They hounded the ref like a mob of thugs, squaring up to him and effing and jeffing. Passion is one thing - but we also need respect. Rugby has it in their game. We also need to address the play acting in football. Players rolling around on the floor feigning injury, or clutching their face when no contact was made in order to gain an advantage. It's all 'handbags at ten paces' in football, and it's getting rather comical.

[NickTheLion]

All the diving really is ruining the game. It only happens at the top level, it's still a mans game at local levels. I blame it on the foreigners for bringing that element of their game with them.
Bring in video replays, yes it will slow the game down by a few minutes. But it'll save days of discussion after, and ponces such as Drogba can be humiliated on the pitch and punished accordingly. Grr!

[Magical Trevor]

Bring in video replays, yes it will slow the game down by a few minutes. But it'll save days of discussion after, and ponces such as Drogba can be humiliated on the pitch and punished accordingly. Grr!

Thats something that has been needed since the dawn of time, barely a week goes by without a team losing out on a potentially critical goal either not given when it should have been or vice versa due to bad offside decisions, handballs etc. There is no reason to not have it.

[cricer]

Trevor! How's it going! First post in here, and on that topic offsides are easily the most controversial call in any sport, and with a game as fast paced as soccer it's a miracle the officiating is even as good as it is now.

[island_maverick]

Nick the Lion:
The hounding and harrassing of ref's needs to be addressed by the FA. I agree that financial penalities will have no effect. I watched Chelsea last week and couldn't believe that I was watching 'professional' footballers.

The time has come to bring some sense of respect and fair play back in to top flight football. Pros have become like kids. They'll push and push and push to keep finding the acceptable limits.

How are they supposed to know where the line is...no-one in authority has come out and said enough is enough. This view is unreasonably reinforced by over-protective, blinkered managers just desperate for results.

A hard hitting punishment has to be brought in now. Including retrospective punishment. A 'simulation' (I hate that word, it is cheating, plain and simple) offence should be punished by a 3-game ban. Leniancy to 2 games in exceptional cases.

If players know they will be retrospectively banned by video too, should they not be caught in the game, they will quickly learn to cut it out. It will take only a handful of players to flush the system out, and then they all learn. Like kids.

I play at the weekends, I have very, very, very rarely seen a player dive - and when it has happened they got roundly laughed at and policed by both sets of players. In the end isn't it about wanting to succeed by playing hard but fair. Thats where the enjoyment comes. But then, perhaps a lot of players these days don't give a monkeys about enjoyment, it is probably just a pay check at the end of the week.

mav.

[NickTheLion]

Yeah, same here Mav. If someone takes a dive, irrespective of who's team they're on we'll all have a good laugh, and there'll always be a loud ironic cheer from the touchline.
I agree with issuing bans after the game based on video eveidence, but say Ronaldo dives in the WC final to win a penalty, then Brazil go on to win. A 3 match ban in the following International matches will seem comparitively weak. Action needs to be taken before the final whistle is blown.

[TheBigCat]

I noticed during that Fulham-Chelsea game the Cottage faithful were chanting "Same old Chelsea. Always cheating". Drogba's handball and Gallas's blatant leg stomp give that chant, which seems to have been around for some time, quite a bit of credence.

From premierleague.com :The Ivory Coast international scored both goals in the 2-0 win over Manchester City at Stamford Bridge on Saturday but later admitted the second was unlawfully brought under control with the help of his hand.

And there goes Drogba again. Mourinho's response? Again as reported by premierleague.com :“I am happy with him and we are happy to have a professional like him."

Head gear would never take off in England because it would make you look like a little fanny.

The first hockey players to wear helmets were treated in quite the same manner. I can't remember who was the first goaltender to take the ice with a mask, but I'm pretty sure he played for Montreal, and even though Quebecois speak French there is nothing poncey about them.

Any attempt to institute an instant replay would be full of dificulties. Take the word of a Yank who has watched the NFL go round and round on the issue. The only way I could see it working is if when the referee has called a penalty and the ball is dead and an assistant referee has reason to believe the call is in error the referee would view a replay and make his determination. This would require that video equipment be ready on the sideline, possibly under the care of the fourth referee, with controls giving the referee the ability to control the image himself. A laptop would probably suffice for this, but there are software issues involved, and this could be viewed as being too much trouble to go through for an event that would only occur 10 times at most over an entire season. However, the subject definately should be discussed by the fans, in the press and at the official level.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Aside to NickTheLion: I finally decided to hit the links in your sig. :rotfl:

[TheBigCat]

I am so mad at the programming people at ESPN2. During the second legs of the round-of-16 in the Champions League they were committed to showing the World Baseball Classic, a meaningless international competition that is supposed to be the BIG THING now that baseball is no longer an Olympic event (don't anyone go wasting tears over that, please) but they never bothered to give it any media notice which turned out to be just as well as the overpayed US team got soundly embarrassed.

Today they chose to air the wrong game. I had to have ESPNsoccernet's live gamecast of Arsenal v Juventus and the text commentary was more exciting than the TV broadcast of Benfica v Barcelona.

TheBigCat ---> :thwak: <---ESPN2 Programming Director

So, wow did Juve dig themselves into a hole.

One of the reasons I wanted to see that game is that Fox Soccer Channel never show the top Serie A teams. They only carry stuff like Lecce - Sampdoria. Italian chess match, as Island Maverick referred to it. Good cure for insomnia, IMHO. So I still have not seen a Juventus game since last year's ECL. They had better show that second leg. Sure, Vieira won't be playing, but Mutu, Forlan and Ibrahimovich will be.

[NickTheLion]

I doubt Forlan will turn out for Juve. Not if his club Villereal have anything to do with it!
Juve were muck last night. Viera didn't look interested, looked lazy and in awe. He got sliding tackled by Pires in the build up to the first goal! That's embarrassing enough. I've never seen Pires do a sliding tackle before I don't think!
Ibrahimovich done nothing. His lack of a left foot was highlighted dramatically. Mutu was very quiet. To be fair to Arsenal though they played very well. Eboue and Flamini done a great job protecting the wings and also getting forward. Senderos was solid. Toure was awesome. But the game was won in the midfield. They packed it out with 5 and looked very solid and organised. Fabregas and Pires broke from midfield very well. Gilberto held and played the best game I've ever seen him play. Then of course Henry added that ability to hold up the ball and thread the passes, and his pace devastated the ageing defence of the aptly named 'Old Lady'.
I saw the Barca highlights, looked like quite an end to end game, I don't know how it stayed 0-0?! Barca hit both posts as well.

[TheBigCat]

I doubt Forlan will turn out for Juve. Not if his club Villereal have anything to do with it!

D'oh!!

So who did I mean to say? Checking Soccernet, because now I've totally gone blank. Trezuguet. How did I get David Trezuguet mixed up with Diego Forlan? Sir! No Excuse, sir!

I don't know how it stayed 0-0?!

Missed chances. Horrible missed chances. The shots on target had no pace and were right at the keepers or deflected by defenders and the ones with pace were all embarasingly wide. The phraze of the day from the announcers was "How did he miss THAT?". It got to the point where I was watching the text gamecast and only looking at the TV when the shouting started.

One other thing missing was Ronaldinho. I'm pretty sure his body was out on the pitch. Looked like him anyway. But he was acting like his skills had gotten swiped by the aliens from Space Jam. If these two teams don't improve things when they play at Neu Camp I wouldn't be surprized if UEFA vacates this fixture and tells Chelsea and Liverpool to play it out instead.

I've never seen Pires do a sliding tackle before I don't think!

And I missed it?!?!?! That's it. I'm borrowing Eko's Jesus stick and catching the next plane to Bristol, CT, and I'm gonna have some words with a certain programming director.

[camelsmoker]

I just made a 10€ bet that Lyon would qualify over Milan AC. At 5.25/1, if I win, then drinks are on me in the Cluckspeak thread tonight!

[island_maverick]

Not a bad shout, so long as they can keep Shev out (although he's not been on form lately).

Lyon have a lot of ability to break from midfield at pace, they could hit the Milan pension brigade where it hurts.

[NickTheLion]

I just made a 10€ bet that Lyon would qualify over Milan AC. At 5.25/1, if I win, then drinks are on me in the Cluckspeak thread tonight!


That's pretty good odds Camel. Better than what I'd get over here. Either your bookmakers are more generous or you get better odds because there is less interest over there.

I wouldn't be surprized if UEFA vacates this fixture and tells Chelsea and Liverpool to play it out instead.


As a Liverpool fan, I would of course love to see that Big Cat. But we had our year last year. It's all about that fixture in the FA Cup semi final though. I hope so much that we beat them and ManU catch them and win the title. I hate Mourinho and Chelsea so much. It would be too funny if they won nothing all season...!

[TheBigCat]

I just made a 10€ bet that Lyon would qualify over Milan AC. At 5.25/1, if I win, then drinks are on me in the Cluckspeak thread tonight!


:( :( :(
As a consolation, the drinks are on the house in the Black Rock Lounge. At least Inter is out and Juve has only has a few hours of life left.

I did get some good news while watching the game. ESPN2 is going to carry the Juventus-Arsenal tie. For those who missed it (look up a few posts) they showed the sloppy Benfica-Barca game last week. Irked me just a bit.

[camelsmoker]

:( :( :(
As a consolation, the drinks are on the house in the Black Rock Lounge. At least Inter is out and Juve has only has a few hours of life left.

I did get some good news while watching the game. ESPN2 is going to carry the Juventus-Arsenal tie. For those who missed it (look up a few posts) they showed the sloppy Benfica-Barca game last week. Irked me just a bit.I just saw a replay of that sloppy Benfica-Barca match. Oh no, wait a sec. It was actually Juve-Arsenal that I was watching.

Nedved getting sent off was the highlight for me.

But I am already salivating at the thought of Milan getting their collective hides tanned by Barca. And Arsenal-Villareal looks pretty decent to me, too.

[island_maverick]

Its premature to speculate, but an Arsenal - Barca final could be a mouthwatering prospect. Henry vs Ron. Nice.

camel you're right, the Arsenal-Juve game was sloppy. Arsenal had a number of chances if only players breaking on the run had controlled the ball better as a last touch. I thought Toure was excellent again, not bad for a £150,000 purchase.

[island_maverick]

So how do people think Arsenal will fare against Villareal?

A Spanish guy on here informs me that Villareal are a serious team and have a real chance of beating Arsenal. Especially with Riquleme in their team.

My question is: Are Villareal the new Valencia?

[pringlelfc]

i put a £10 bet on Arsenal to win the CL at 18/1. :D

But im not sure if i want them to win it as it will give them a financial advantage over us (liverpool)

[Lawboy]

Had no idea there were this many fans of the "beautiful game" here. Nice.

As for the CL, I like Arse's chances alot. I think they will take Villareal and will have a great shot in a final match to win it all. Not sure why, but the trend lately has been for English teams to pull it out in the CL, much like in the 80's. These things do trend, and Italy is down, and Spain is too, although barcelona is playing wonderfully. I like like the Arse this year. Wenger has the youngsters playing well in Europe.

[Lawboy]

[quote=camelsmoker] wait a sec. It was actually Juve-Arsenal that I was watching. Nedved getting sent off was the highlight for me. quote]

Lets hope we get to see him walking sadly off the pitch this summer in the WC match against the USA!!!!

[pringlelfc]

Had no idea there were this many fans of the "beautiful game" here. Nice.

As for the CL, I like Arse's chances alot. I think they will take Villareal and will have a great shot in a final match to win it all. Not sure why, but the trend lately has been for English teams to pull it out in the CL, much like in the 80's. These things do trend, and Italy is down, and Spain is too, although barcelona is playing wonderfully. I like like the Arse this year. Wenger has the youngsters playing well in Europe.

u say "pull it out" as in unexpected. Last year and this year, yes. But in the 80's Liverpool were the best team in Europe and even Everton were expected to go far.

if thats not what you meant then never mind :nanabobo:

[TheBigCat]

I decided to share with the Brit fans a page from the Seattle Sounders history book:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y6/TheBigCat1999/GeoffHurst.jpg

Yup, that's really England and West Ham legend Geoff Hurst playing in the kit of the Seattle Sounders in 1976.

[island_maverick]

Great article, BC, thanks.

And 9 in 25 in that one season for Seattle wasn't a bad ratio either.

[TheBigCat]

No, not bad at all. Notice that Harry Redknapp is mentioned in the article? He was actually the Sounders Youth Team coach, but injuries forced the team to shove him into a uniform and throw him out onto the pitch. That was his last professional game as a player, but his official stats on all the footy sites I have seen make no mention of it. The Sounders team page does have an article about him from that year as well. There's a good pick of him and little Jamie.

The reason that I posted the article about Hurst is that the Sounders are about to begin defense of their USL 1st Division title. It's not going to be easy, because keeper Preston Burpo is now with Chivas USA of the MLS.

[The Swan]

May i just point out as a thorough bred English man this game is called.................Football. We invented it, we name it!!

Soccor???? NO NO NO NO NO!!!!

[camelsmoker]

May i just point out as a thorough bred English man this game is called.................Football. We invented it, we name it!!

Soccor???? NO NO NO NO NO!!!!Are you aware of the origin of the word "soccer"?

The Football Association was formed in London in October 1863 when representatives of eleven clubs and schools met in an attempt to standardize the rules of the game. One of the rules prohibited the carrying of the ball, a rule that would lead to the Rugby-oriented clubs leaving the Association several months later. The name Association Football was coined to distinguish it from Rugby.

We have to thank the students of the 1880s for the word "soccer". It seems it was the practice amongst the well bred students of Oxford to abbreviate words whilst adding "er" to the end; "brekkers" for breakfast, for example.

On asked if he wanted to play "rugger" (i.e. the "rugby rules") a student replied "no, soccer", an abbreviation of "association", or the "association rules" (i.e. the rules of the Football Association).

According to David Pickering's "Soccer Companion", that student was Charles Wreford Brown, later an England international and F.A. vice-president.

You invented it, you named it. No argument here.

[Ellaroo]

cc: May i just point out as a thorough bred English man this game is called.................Football. We invented it, we name it!!

Soccor???? NO NO NO NO NO!!!!
Lol cc - I suspect the thread title is tongue in check...as are you most of the time. Unfortunately I can't find any definition for our humour, nor is it documented by any scholars. So misunderstood......how on earth are you surviving over there. ;)

[island_maverick]

No, not bad at all. Notice that Harry Redknapp is mentioned in the article? He was actually the Sounders Youth Team coach, but injuries forced the team to shove him into a uniform and throw him out onto the pitch. That was his last professional game as a player, but his official stats on all the footy sites I have seen make no mention of it. The Sounders team page does have an article about him from that year as well.

BC, I must have read the article and not paid attention to the Harry Redknapp para. Thanks for coming back to remind me of it.

Very interesting to see what some of the big names in the modern game were doing 30 years ago, as in the case of Harry. As far as I understand it, he was a fairly reasonable winger in his day (I await to be corrected if someone has better info...anyone?).

I never really understood the whole MLS thing back in the 70's. Nowadays I assume you wouldn't get away older pros going over there to graze, given how competitve the USA team have become. IN the 'old days' it seemed to be more an exhibition league, allowing the slower yet more skilled individuals to extend their playing careers (and wallets) in the pleasant surroundings of North America.

[TheBigCat]

The Football Association was formed in London in October 1863 when representatives of eleven clubs and schools met in an attempt to standardize the rules of the game. One of the rules prohibited the carrying of the ball, a rule that would lead to the Rugby-oriented clubs leaving the Association several months later. The name Association Football was coined to distinguish it from Rugby.

We have to thank the students of the 1880s for the word "soccer". It seems it was the practice amongst the well bred students of Oxford to abbreviate words whilst adding "er" to the end; "brekkers" for breakfast, for example.

On asked if he wanted to play "rugger" (i.e. the "rugby rules") a student replied "no, soccer", an abbreviation of "association", or the "association rules" (i.e. the rules of the Football Association).

According to David Pickering's "Soccer Companion", that student was Charles Wreford Brown, later an England international and F.A. vice-president.


Thanks for the info. American football itself developed off of the rugby varient, and was a fairly popular game among the collegians of the north-eastern states. One of the early American trademarks was straps sewn into the uniforms to enable teammates to drag a ball-carrier forward.

Just like rugby beginning when somebody broke the rules and picked up the ball, American football changed the day somebody decided to toss the ball to a teammate who was standing forward of him. The refs decided to toss a coin to determine if the act should be allowed, and thus the forward pass was created.

It would be nice, maybe if one of our members from the counterbalance continent could shed some light on the origens of their version of football.

I never really understood the whole MLS thing back in the 70's. Nowadays I assume you wouldn't get away older pros going over there to graze, given how competitve the USA team have become. IN the 'old days' it seemed to be more an exhibition league, allowing the slower yet more skilled individuals to extend their playing careers (and wallets) in the pleasant surroundings of North America.

Well, back in the day it was the North American Soccer League, which folded in 1984, a victim, IMO, of an attempt to market a version of the game would appeal to the American audience, which was obviously too shallow to ever accept a game that frequently ended in a scoreless draw. Americans instead would watch Indoor Soccer. Americans would love Indoor Soccer. The Major Indoor Soccer League was created and outdoor soccer bit the dust. The United States was without a national outdoor soccer league until 1998 when it was decided that the 2 year old MLS would be the new top-flight national league and the A-league would be the second tier.

As for the British and other nationality players who came here in the '70s, there was a simple economic factor involved. The FA at the time was in decline, and the greatest player in the world signed a huge contract to leave his Santos club and come take a huge paycheck to play in New York City for one season before retiring from the game. Several players from around the world decided that if it was good enough for Pele, it was good enough for them, and among those making the crossing were Franz Beckenbauer, Georgio Chinaglia and George Best.

For Geoff Hurst, it was probably a chance to play one more season while getting better pay than he would somewhere in the Third Division, which is about what the level of competition in the NASL was equal to in those days. I guess "graze" would be a pretty good term for it.

As for doing the same thing today, you must remember that while the US National team has improved, the level of play in our national league has barely kept pace with the overall average level of the English leagues. An average MLS team of today would have a rough time finishing in the top end of the League Championship. Also, there is no realistic chance that any British players of quality would accept the current MLS pay structure. I know there is some chatter about Beckham possibly coming here to play when his contract with Real Madrid expires, but he is currently making more money than the entire MLS, or close to it. The MLS currently doesn't have the financial means to make such moves, and Lamaar Hunt, MLS Comissioner and owner of most of the teams (as well as the Kansas City Chiefs of the NFL) doesn't have the stones.

[TheBigCat]

Someone posted this link in chat:

http://www.stephaniemiller.com/declarationofrevocation.htm

It's a cool little piece by one of Britains coolest exports, Mr. John Cleese.

I'm posting it here because it does mention footy.

And because IMO, it's rotflmao funny.

[TheBigCat]

Well, we now have what some people have called a "Dream Matchup" in the Champions League final. Arsenal v Barcelona. Henry and Bergkamp v Ronaldinho and Eto'o. Wenger v Rejkard. What a game it's going to be.

Any predictions?

[island_maverick]

Well, we now have what some people have called a "Dream Matchup" in the Champions League final. Arsenal v Barcelona. Henry and Bergkamp v Ronaldinho and Eto'o. Wenger v Rejkard. What a game it's going to be.

Any predictions?

I don't want to make any, in case it plays with fate.

But it should be a great game. Wenger, Henry and the rest of the French pack will love going to Paris for the final. Might give them an edge.

[camelsmoker]

I don't want to make any, in case it plays with fate.

But it should be a great game. Wenger, Henry and the rest of the French pack will love going to Paris for the final. Might give them an edge.You're forgetting semi-final match-winner Ludo Giuly, and of course, Ronaldinho, who I had the priviledge to watch at the Camp des Loges, and at the Parc des Princes when he was here.

Rafa Marquez and Edmilson have also played (and won trophies) in France.

In any case, my mouth is already watering...

[island_maverick]

I hadn't realised Marquez and Edmilson have played in France - who for?

I am curious about the pre-Barca Ronaldinho. Was he a similar player, with as much flair and confidence, in those earlier days?

I only ask, because when he was at Paris, and Man Utd thought they could get him, not a lot was known about him apart from his long range goal against England in 2002 World Cup. People knew of him as being a skillful Brazilian, but I don't think the true word on his skills and tricks had reached us at that time.

It seems he has stepped on since going to Barca, is that a fair assessment? How was he when you saw him at Paris?

[camelsmoker]

I think a lot of the time the Premier League exists in a vacuum. That's only meant as a half-insult; I know that the Premiership has some of the world's best players (and richest clubs), but they are often behind the rest of Europe, when it comes to recruiting foreign talent, especially from South America.

When Ronnie came to PSG from Gremio, he was already a star (Best Player and Highest Goalscorer of the 1999 Confederations Cup), maybe not the superstar he is now, but we knew what he was worth, and he didn't disappoint us.

I remember the first match he played in France, with PSG at Auxerre, and I remember thinking that there were more journalists than PSG supporters in the tribunes... all clamoring to get an interview or a photo, or even just a look at "le phénomen".

I remember his "elastico" dribbles, his blind passes, and his devastating free kicks, but especially the goals he scored against Marseille, our hated rivals (btw--this Saturday is the French Cup Final; PSG vs. OM).

We knew he wouldn't stay for the entire 5 years of his contract, but I think a lot of us were expecting him to stay one more season. Barca was just too attractive a prospect for him, a real no-brainer.

FYI, Marquez played for Monaco from 1999-2004, won the French League title (and was named the league's best defender) in 2000, and won the French League Cup in 2003.

Edmilson played for Lyon from 2000-2004, and won 3 straight League titles with them (2002, 2003, 2004).

[TheBigCat]

PSG vs OM in the French Cup final??? I wasn't even paying attention there. Les Marsiellais are going to be fielding a competative side this time aren't they?

[camelsmoker]

Funny you should say that, TBC. I saw an interview with Pape Diouf, in which the journalist asked a similar question, to which he replied, "même nos minots ont besoin de se reposer. On va envoyer les moins de 17 ans..." (even our youngsters need to rest. We're going to send our under 17 squad...). Funny guy.

By the way, the Superior Appeals Commission of the F.F.F. decided to overturn the National Ethical Coucil's decision to dock both teams one point for the events leading up to that match.

[camelsmoker]

:bump:
http://membres.lycos.fr/foot83/images/logos/coupefrance.gif

PARIS EST MAGIQUE

http://pa2chite.p.skyblog.com/pics/874499.jpg


That is all.

[TheBigCat]

Official Lostaways Congradulations to Paris St Germain for winning the French Cup and Olympique Lyonaisse for securing the Ligue 1 title.

Also congradulations (grudgingly) to Chelsea for securing their second consecutive EPL title.

[island_maverick]

Also congradulations (grudgingly) to Chelsea for securing their second consecutive EPL title.

But at least it stopped Man Utd getting their hands on it. ;)

[TheBigCat]

But at least it stopped Man Utd getting their hands on it

yeah...They've got enough of them. Liverpool's turn next?

But OL can have all the Ligue 1 titles they want IMHO. Why stop at 5 straight?

[Ellaroo]

TheBigCat: Liverpool's turn next?

My money would be on Chelsea again next season.

[TheBigCat]

My money would be on Chelsea finishing about 4th. So they are getting Ballack. Roman forked out a bunch of cash to Man City for SWP and how much playing time did he see? The fact is that he can spend all he wants and he'll still never be able to put more than 11 men on the pitch at one time.

BTW, my initial reaction to the Wright-Phillips signing was that Roman was taking a page from the Yankees' book. Namely, if somebody plays well against your team you sign them. The only team that beat them last season was City, so he buys their best player. I'm still trying to figure out if it was a good carreer move for SWP. Sure he's made easy money this year. He's practiced hard and done what he could when he has gotten to play, but Sven isn't even looking at him to replace Rooney on the squad.

[Ellaroo]

4th? Unless something drastic happens over the summer, I can't see Man U Arsenal or Liverpool having a better squad than Chelsea for next season.

As for as SWR - interesting point about buying him so to eliminate the oppostion. I rate him as player but never saw him fitting in as a regular starter for Chelsea. I agree I don't think it was the best move for his career. But what kid would turn down a move to Chelsea? Surely he's worth taking to the World Cup though.

It was all over Sky Sports News last night that Fergie reckons Rooney won't play in the World Cup. It's not gone down well coming from a Scotsman! He's reported as saying it's no big deal for us (Man U) as he'll only miss 2 games!

[TheBigCat]

It was all over Sky Sports News last night that Fergie reckons Rooney won't play in the World Cup. It's not gone down well coming from a Scotsman! He's reported as saying it's no big deal for us (Man U) as he'll only miss 2 games!

Sir Alex regards the potential loss of half a million pounds and an automatic qualification spot in the UCL next year as "No Big Deal"????

This might be a good time to say that I realy, really, really don't like the gits in the press, especially the ones who report on sports. (And the ones who log onto fansites for TV shows asking for interviews with site members without clearing it with the site administrator, but that's another story). Specific to this case is that I am hearing a bunch of talking heads asking if England can win the World Cup without Rooney. To be sure, he is a great player. Very talented, strong, has a good bit of pace and skill and always hustles and plays heads-up. England is definately a better team with him on the roster. But the press seem to be assuming that England can win the World Cup with Rooney.

My personal pick is about 70-30 between another embarrasing host victory and another predictable Brazilian victory. Rooney's presence is not going to prevent that, nor is his absence going to prevent his country from advancing from it's group. Where it would make the difference is whether England lose to Germany or Brazil in the semifinal or to France or the US in the quarterfinals.

[TheBigCat]

One thing I wish to clarify: My earlier comment predicting that Chelsea could finish as far down a 4th next year. It's not that I see Chelsea being a worse team. It's that I can't see them getting any better inless Roman signs the entire Brazilian World Cup starting 11. Okay, 10 of them and Cech can keep his job. Even doing that would only fractionally improve the team overall. The other 3 "Elite" teams should improve quite well. Just Henry staying put and some relief from the injury bug should have Arsenal back at their old form. Having Hienze and Smith full fit should do wonders for Man U. And I really think that Fowler is NOT slowing down, he's playing wiser. Add to all of this the off season moves these 3 teams are going to make (I think I already said that no matter how much money Roman throws at the team they'll still never have more than 11 players on the pitch at a time) and the fact that we don't know yet how Mourinho is going to be able to handle real adversity but the signs aren't hopeful for him so far and we migth just see Chelsea become the Real Madrid of the EPL. (That's a lot of money for a mid-table team, Mi Amigo.)

[nimrod]

But the press seem to be assuming that England can win the World Cup with Rooney.

My personal pick is about 70-30 between another embarrasing host victory and another predictable Brazilian victory. Rooney's presence is not going to prevent that, nor is his absence going to prevent his country from advancing from it's group. Where it would make the difference is whether England lose to Germany or Brazil in the semifinal or to France or the US in the quarterfinals.

The press in Britain have always been like that. The reality is we lost to Northern ireland with Rooney and all our other best players in the team. Having a squad good enough to win something is all well and good, but you got to walk the walk as well.

There are any number of teams who could win the World cup - Greece won the Euros - last World Cup South Korea, US and Turkey all did well - nobody in the English press fancied any of these teams chances. Organisation and playing to your team strengths can go a long way in these tournaments. The one nice thing about the World Cup, is that Roman Abramavich and Jose Mourinho won't be able to buy the trophy.

[TheBigCat]

The press in Britain have always been like that. The reality is we lost to Northern ireland with Rooney and all our other best players in the team.

I remember that game. In the WC qualifying stages. Great keeping by Roy Carroll. That aside, the press makes a big deal over Germany losing a friendly to Italy.

The one nice thing about the World Cup, is that Roman Abramavich and Jose Mourinho won't be able to buy the trophy.

:rotfl:

[island_maverick]

The one nice thing about the World Cup, is that Roman Abramavich and Jose Mourinho won't be able to buy the trophy.
Give it time.

[lacenaire]

Sorry for you Brits, but F.C. Barça is gonna win the C.L.Cup.
Better luck next time! :P

[island_maverick]

Sorry for you Brits, but F.C. Barça is gonna win the C.L.Cup.
Better luck next time! :P
Lac, Isn't that what you said about Villareal beating Arsenal..? ;)

I wouldn't be so sure that Barça are going to win. Sure, they are favourites. But their defence isn't what is should be and Arsenal have been keeping it tight in Europe. And man, that Eboue is some player coming forward from right-back.

I'm hoping its going to be a real footballing spectacle - even though top games rarely are - and it will fascinating to see Ron and Henry faced up together. Henry had a poor track record in big games, until Madrid (hehe, sorry again, Lac ;)). I've got a sneaking feeling he may have the better game of the two, given how Arsenal have been so tight defensively. My only concern is Eboue bombing forward too often and letting the great man in.

[TheBigCat]

Sheesh, how many more La Liga teams do Arsenal have to beat to get some respect in certain quarters of the Continent?

Okay, so last game at Highbury and the opponent is Wigan makng their only appearance there ever. I hope Paul Jewell appreciates the historical significance of the waxing his team is about to recieve.

Aside to Paul Jewell: Great work.

[TheBigCat]

Okay, so last game at Highbury and for the visitors it was a metaphore of their season. The Latics came out fighting but in the end all their heart was for naught as they just ran out of steam at the mid-point. It was also a metaphore for the Gunners' season. Against a rough run the pull together and settle thiings in the end with a stingy, capable defense and lots of goals by Henry.

My Official "Well Done, Guys" List for the 2005-2006 EPL season:

First to Chelsea for securing their second consecutive EPL title.

Next to Manchester United, and Liverpool for playing like the elite teams they are and securing UCL spots for next season.

Arsenal for overcoming adersity in the departure of Patrick Vieira and long term injuries to Sol Campbell, Ashley Cole and Lauren Bisan to secure a UCL spot for next season and advancement to the UCL final this season with a group of young players who have stepped up and played with heart and skill, all while demonstrating how a manager should behave.

Tottenham Hotspur and Blackburn Rovers for fine seasons and qualifying for the UEFA Cup next season.

Newcastle United for recovering from a disasterous start to the season to rebound to a place in the Intertoto Cup, with special mention to Glen Roeder who has sadly not been approved for a permanent managerial position by the FA and Harry Shearer who retires after setting the bar against which future goal scorers in the EPL will be measured to a very high level indeed.

Fulham for overcoming preseason consensus for relegation and a miserable away form to end the season in 12th place, and especially for their derby victory over Cheslea at Craven Cottage.

Middlesbrough for advancing to the final of the UEFA Cup.

Harry Redknapp for admitting his error, mending fences and returning to guide Portsmouth out of the relegation zone and to safety.

Special mention to Paul Jewell and Wigan Athletic and to Alan Pardew and West Ham United for fine seasons finishing in the top half of the table following promotion to the EPL, with further mention to WHUFC for a fine FA Cup run.

Further congradulations go to league Championship champions Reading for advancing to the team's first top-flight appearance in record form and to Sheffield United for a fine season for also gaining automatic promotion, and to the 4 teams, Leeds United, Crystal Palace, Watford and Preston North End for making it to the as-yet undecided play=off for the third promotion spot.

And finally, honorable mention to the fans of Sunderland AFC who have now suffered through 2 premiership campaigns in 4 years which were so horrid that the combined points total from those 2 seasons (33) would still result in relegation in every EPL season thus far.

And lastly I wish to thank all the players, managers, referees, trainers, club officials, broadcast partners, league staff and other assorted auxiliary personnel and most of all the fans for making the 2005-2006 season so enjoyable.

And one final mention of thanks to Jose Mourinho for making certain that no sports reporter in the UK ever had to worry about finding a story before deadline.

[richiejc]

Were in the Play off finals. Leeds United heading towards the Premiership where we belong, scrappy game and the ref was a Preston fan as he booked our players and let the Preston players off with a talking to, but thats football.

[TheBigCat]

I'll have to check to see who Leeds are playing, bit I seem to remember that Watford had a huge edge after the first leg against Palace. Have Watford played top flight football before, or would they, like Reading be making their debut at that level.

Hmm...looks like I have more research to do. :)

ETA: Okay. I see that Watford have played in the EPL during the 1999-2000 season. Straight back down after promotion. Just like Palace did last year.

[lacenaire]

Ath Bilbao another season cleared.
With Real Madrid and FC Barça it's one of the only 3 teams in the league that's never been in a lower category.

Barça just won the league.
With the CLC on May 17th that would make it the best team in Europe.
A deserved title imo.

[TheBigCat]

That's rather odd, because I googled "Two Team Soccer League" and the only hits were "La Liga" and "Serie A"

ETA: I googled "No Team Soccer League" and the only hit was "MLS"

[Texas Red]

Newcastle United in England is my team.

We have beaten the best in the past (Barcelona 3-0, Manchester United 5-0 to name just 2) and been so close to the league title and lost in 2 FA Cup finals in the last few years.
Sadly its been all downhill from there, due to poor management, bad players etc...
However the team is currently enjoying a bit of a purple patch, the last manager was sacked and there seems to be a bit of re-building and stability going on now. Our hero has retired (Alan Shearer) and will be sadly missed but we have some great players at the club Most notably England striker Michael Owen, Turkey midfielder Emre and recently voted Goalkeeper of the year and Eire international Shay Given to name 3.
Confidence is returning to the club.

[GrahamK]

Quick (and rather obvious) question - if you were England manager selecting your World Cup squad would you pick a seventeen year old striker who's never played a single minute of top flight league football (and who you've never, ever personally seen kick a ball in a competitive match) whilst leaving out the top-scoring Englishman in this season's Premiership? Particularly when you add the fact that both your experienced and recognised first choice strikers are injury doubts...

And, yes, I am Scottish and, yes, I am deeply jealous and bitter.

[lacenaire]

ATh Bilbao has won 8 leagues and 23 King's cups
Atco. MAdrid has won 8 leagues and 9 cups

In the past 7 years 4 different teams have won the league:

___Season_____Winner__________Champion's League Winner_______Champion's League Finalist

2005 - 2006 | FC Barcelona_____________FC Barcelona (?)
2004 - 2005 | FC Barcelona
2003 - 2004 | Valencia FC
2002 - 2001 | Real Madrid
2001 - 2002 | Valencia FC_______________Real Madrid ______________________ Valencia FC
2000 - 2001 | Real Madrid____________________________________________ ___Valencia FC
1999 - 2000 | Deportivo Coruña__________Real Madrid

Over the same period of time only 3 different teams have won the Premier League:
Chelsea, Arsenal and Manchester United.


And Uefa's Cup Finals

2005-2006 Sevilla FC vs Middlesborough
2003-2004 VALENCIA vs Olym. Marsella : 2-0
2000-2001 Liverpool vs Dptvo. Alavés : 1-0 (golden goal)

[nimrod]

Quick (and rather obvious) question - if you were England manager selecting your World Cup squad would you pick a seventeen year old striker who's never played a single minute of top flight league football (and who you've never, ever personally seen kick a ball in a competitive match) whilst leaving out the top-scoring Englishman in this season's Premiership? Particularly when you add the fact that both your experienced and recognised first choice strikers are injury doubts...

And, yes, I am Scottish and, yes, I am deeply jealous and bitter.

It's quite an amazing decision from Sven, mainly because England teams under him have generally played so cautiously. Personally I would not have picked someone I hadn't seen play - if everyone was telling me I should pick someone, I would have made sure I did watch them, even if it was in an Arsenal reserve match. This guy is very quick and is going to be fresh.... good move by SWP going to Chelsea wasn't it? ..and so much for Andy Johnson not harming his England chances by staying at Palace..

[GrahamK]

This guy is very quick and is going to be fresh.... good move by SWP going to Chelsea wasn't it?

But hang on... SWP goes to Chelsea and is 'dropped' from the England squad because he hasn't had enough first team games. Theo goes to Arsenal and gets picked even though he's had absolutely zero first team games! Where's the logic? If Theo's going to be fresh than so would SWP (and he has more experience at that level). I hear Theo is incredibly fast, but we all know there's no point in getting past players unless you have a cool enough head to do something with the ball afterwards...

[nimrod]

I don't disagree with the decision being a strange one...in fact I used the word amazing. I don't particularly like Sven, but he has the decision and he doesn't have to be logical. As for SWP, he's also quick and likely to be fresh, but when he's played he hasn't set the world alight. Now had he been playing regularly for Man City, doing well, scoring goals week in week out he'd have been hard to ignore. Unfortunately he's been on the bench at Chelsea not doing a lot and that's why I made the comment. From a wanting to play for England in the World Cup finals perspective moving to Chelsea has turned out to be a pretty bad decision by SWP. It's not as if it wasn't commented on at the time that he was taking a risk. Personally in certain past games I'd have had SWP playing wide right instead of Beckham - but hey, I'm just a fan.