View Full Version : Jack+Locke=Conflict
Hey,
My first post....
We all have noticed the ever present and building conflict between Locke and Jack...Here is my explanation
Oops...Sorry..Here goes:
Jack is a control freak. He displays this on every episode. If you notice he exhibits the qualities of a person who is very insecure and who needs to feel as if he is in control all of the time. He has pushed this on Locke and Locke refuses to yield. Thus, there is and will always be conflict.
Locke on the other hand, his past we know of, just hates to be told what to do. Control Freaks just love to stick their noses in and tell people what to do and Locke is especially sensitive to this. Thus, Locke feels like Jack is trespassing in "his" hatch. Notice when Jack steps out of the shower and sees Locke there at the mirror shaving. Jack acts as if his space has been violated. However, Locke feels as if Jack is showering in "his" shower.
Jack and Locke seem to tolerate (at the moment) each other because they have similar goals.
One scene I can think of that is a good example is when Jack, Locke and Kate were getting ready to bring back the dynomite from the Black Rock. If you re-watch the scene, notice how quickly Jack exerts his authority over Kate and Locke. He immediately tries to get control and push "his" plan on the other two. Locke has none of this. This angers Jack.
I have had people like Jack work for me and have worked for people like Jack. There tend to be very difficult to deal with in every way. They tend to be very stubborn, good at what they do, and will stop at almost nothing to get their way.
I think the show does a very good job of bringing out this characteristic in Jack. Having been around lots of people like this I noticed this early on. I really am impressed at how the writers are playing this personality coflict out with Jack and Locke. My .02
blue sunrise
03-23-06, 04:15 PM
Notice when Jack steps out of the shower and sees Locke there at the mirror shaving. Jack acts as if his space has been violated. However, Locke feels as if Jack is showering in "his" shower.
That was intersting to me.
Really Locke WAS violating Jack's space. Conventionally, one would try to give another his privacy when showering. Locke was intentionally pushing on Jack's comfort level to reclaim some power.
Passive aggressive? Is that the correct term?
BrokeBlack Rock
03-23-06, 04:42 PM
It's not so much pasive aggressiveness as it is posturing. I think they both want everyone to see them as the alpha dog. It's about how they are perceived by others, especially with Jack. I think Jack is starting to have some feeling that Locke reminds him of his father, and he didn't want to be under his father's thumb, so he's making sure that he's not under Locke's thumb either. THe same goes for Locke, he's not going to become close to anyone who he can look at as an equal, because last time he did that was with his father and he got burnt. I think they both still have daddy issues and they are playing out on each other. Man there is a lot of psychology in this show.
I think the odd thing is the terrorial values on the show! The Others Claim it is there Island, Locke claims it as His Hatch! And thats what I think is Key! Jack looks at the Hatch as a safe hole from The Others! Locke on the other hand views The Hatch as his connection and bidding to do the Islands work!
I agree with the Daddy issues. I also think or assume that I am right about Jack in that he will conflict with anyone who does not obey him directly who is not female, disagrees with him or acts as his equal. In other words he assumes he is "King".
Notice how he pointed out Locke hiding things when in fact Jack has hid as much information as anyone or at least attempted to do so. Also, notice how Jack tried to get the upper hand on Locke on almost all things relating to the hatch.
Jack is very narcissitic. He cannot help himself. Once he realizes that you do not believe in him as the sole "King" the relationship becomes antagonistic. He and Sawyer will never get along for long because Sawyer will not yield. Mr. Eko, well, I think it will be interesting to see this play out.
One thing I find interesting is that Jack gets fulfillment from being a Doctor. People come to him for help and this makes him important. This satisfies his narcissistic tendencies. Out side of his ability to help with health care issues he is a goon in my opinion.
I predict his personality will continue on the same path as I think the writers are keen to his narcissism. More of my .02
athywithak
03-23-06, 06:45 PM
I think the odd thing is the terrorial values on the show! The Others Claim it is there Island, Locke claims it as His Hatch! And thats what I think is Key! Jack looks at the Hatch as a safe hole from The Others! Locke on the other hand views The Hatch as his connection and bidding to do the Islands work!
Amen to that.
I'd love to see this discussion get revived:
http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7021
sweetsunray
05-27-07, 02:19 PM
As I was rewatching S1 I noticed role shift,
In Do No Harm, Jack shouts to sun, just like Locke tends to, "Don't tell me what I can't do."
However, Locke says in a much earlier epi, "I can fix this!" (Alas, I just don't recall which epi :( )
It's all about the man of faith man of science mantra.
Yet both are blind to the needs, rights and feelings of those around them.
Both are willing to walk over and misuse innocent people to force them to follow thier way. They have more in common than it seems.
carmela
05-30-07, 11:34 PM
It's all about the man of faith man of science mantra.
Yet both are blind to the needs, rights and feelings of those around them.
Both are willing to walk over and misuse innocent people to force them to follow thier way. They have more in common than it seems.
Absolutely. They are much more alike than they are different. I would love to see a true division among the Losties about whether to follow Jack or Locke.
sgtdraino
05-31-07, 03:53 PM
They are alike in some ways. Both have dealt with obsessions, contemplated suicide, kept secrets, and forced people to do things they don't want to do. However, I don't know that I'd go so far as to say they're more alike than they are different.
I agree that Jack is a control freak. He needs to feel in control of almost every aspect of a situation. That is not Locke. Locke only feels a need to exert control under what he feels are life-and-death circumstances. Otherwise, he leaves people to their own devices.
Jack has very little faith in anything, except perhaps science. He doesn't trust other people, or even himself. He is always prepared to believe the worst about people. While Locke's faith is by no means rock-solid, he at least does have it, and tries to follow it. Contrary to Jack, Locke often puts trust in other people, sometimes too much trust. Jack has paranoid tendencies, Locke has naive tendencies.
I see them as both controlling incertain ways as well.
Jack's way is pure ego, "follow me because I can...uhh ... fix spines". Locke's is by manipulation, he thinks he knows what right for everyone and they'll do it rather or not it's what they choose to do.
They differ greatly in the realm of faith vs science. People forget the whole implosion would have happened sooner if Jack had his way, it was Locke who held on until something pushed him over the edge and he stopped the numbers imput.
interplanetjanet
06-04-07, 02:04 PM
They are alike in some ways. Both have dealt with obsessions, contemplated suicide, kept secrets, and forced people to do things they don't want to do. However, I don't know that I'd go so far as to say they're more alike than they are different.
I agree that Jack is a control freak. He needs to feel in control of almost every aspect of a situation. That is not Locke. Locke only feels a need to exert control under what he feels are life-and-death circumstances. Otherwise, he leaves people to their own devices.
...Jack has paranoid tendencies, Locke has naive tendencies.
Jack's way is pure ego, "follow me because I can...uhh ... fix spines". Locke's is by manipulation, he thinks he knows what right for everyone and they'll do it rather or not they choose it's what they choose to do.
These are very well put. I had to contemplate late in S3 why I thought Locke was such a great character (in the sense of interesting to watch, even if I didn't always like where he was going) and Jack was so irritating, and I concluded that the difference has largely to do with Jack being the leader. Locke tries to come in and influence a single person occasionally; the rest of the time "Don't tell me what I can and can't do" is a motto he applies to others as well as himself.
Locke manipulates and is surprisingly good at it; Jack dicatates. Locke trusts too much; Jack trusts not enough. Both can get all of them killed.
Ben's in this too. I can see him manipulating them both. Most likely he'd be on Jack's side, Locke is too much a threat to his position with the Others and he generally thinks the Losties are things to be used anyway.
sweetsunray
02-13-08, 08:55 PM
Something I noticed by rewatching and posting and reading... but you know the jokes about Jack and his bottles of water, and then there are the jokes of Locke and blowing up stuff. And from very early on in S1, water is the element to be associated with Jack, while fire is Locke's element. TPTB hinted from very early on that Locke and Jack are like fire and water.
Homer Noodleman
02-13-08, 11:23 PM
Paulo's element must be Earth.
BigJsCon
02-13-08, 11:30 PM
In another life they would share a dorm, probably? And Jack would label his milk whilst Locke whittles his wood. ;)
sweetsunray
02-13-08, 11:47 PM
Earth would be Sayid? Wood for Sawyer? Air... ?
Homer Noodleman
02-14-08, 01:02 AM
Well, Claire's an airhead...
Locke and Jack are never going to see eye-to-eye. They are like chalk and cheese. If Locke says somethings white, Jack will argue that its black.
Well, Claire's an airhead...
She's not alone, I think the breeze flows freely in all thier heads.
sweetsunray
02-17-08, 01:35 PM
I've rewatched all three episodes in one go last night with a friend of mine, and now the split of teams has already shown signs of what is to come: war. Not between Losties and Freighties, but between Locke's and Jack's team.
Hurley's idea of one team hiding and the other associating with the freighties was idealistically naive, yet I think many of us still see the teams as an original family of friends, only focusing on the enmity/bad feelings between Jack and Locke for each other, and if anybody wound up hurt or killed we expect the freighters as the guilty ones.
But in the course of a day: one team ends up sabotaging Jack's team by capturing Charlotte (and letting the others know it by sending Vincent their way), the other team infiltrating the camp of Locke's team to recapture Charlotte; Locke's team setting up a trap and prisoning Losties (if only for a short time)...
We've already seen them turn on each other, sabotaging each other in the course of a day. How soon before accidents happen and someone ends up hurt or killed? It is the actual start of Lord of the Flies now.
Of course we can argue that both sides have reason to from their particular perspective (like in any war), and we can get into a whole set of debate of who provoked who, and started the war, or who has justice and truth on his side, but in the end, it's very sad that the Losties cannot trust each other anymore fundamentally and all are actively involved in sabotaging each other. And I think that is why Hurley felt sorry about joining Locke. Hurley wanted to create one big happy family and sees many people at the other camp as friends. Yet with his speech and him being the first choosing to go with Locke he felt he caused the rift, was the first to break the family apart, the first to give up in working together (albeit with expected disagreements).
sgtdraino
02-17-08, 02:59 PM
We'll see, but I still think Hurley's words in the future were more of an appology for hurting Jack's feelings at the time.
I think the conflict between the teams is ultimately just going to be a tension-builder, to the point where both Team Jack and Team Naomi (sans Naomi) finally realize the Boaties are very bad news. After all, Abaddon is with the Boaties, and in the future he apparently has been led to believe that everyone besides the Oceanic 6 are dead.
I still think that ultimately Team Jack, Team Locke, and Team Naomi will join forces, with Team Naomi helping the Oceanic 6 get off the island, simultaneously fooling the Boaties into thinking everyone else is dead.
Homer Noodleman
02-22-08, 10:39 PM
I don't think the groups are going to join. I think it is pretty clear that Locke has gone off the rails entirely. Where as Jack would convene the little leadership group for decision making (not that anybody in that group would ever abide by their own decisions), Locke is just barking orders.
Sawyer and he yukking it up over what 'sheep' the rest of the castaways are doesn't exhibit much of a grasp on reality, unless you want to argue that the likes of Danielle, Alex, Karl, and Hurley are likely to stay with him regardless of what insanity he lurches off on next. That doesn't bode well for the group, if those people start to defect than all Sawyer and Locke will be left with is Claire and some redshirts to boss around.
Staying in Otherton is a hair-brained idea. It is too identifiable of a target, and the strike could come either from the gas mask equipped Freighter Folk, or the remnants of the Others who have a much better grasp of the island than Locke does.
Instead of doing anything proactive, the 'Dear Leader' hangs around Ben's house cooking chicken and breaking dishes. That group is well and truly screwed. At least Jack's has a chance.
melostmo
02-23-08, 12:47 AM
I thought rain was Locke's element :rolleyez:
sgtdraino
02-23-08, 12:48 AM
I don't think the groups are going to join.
Ha! Prediction made, we'll see! What do you think it going to happen to everybody else besides the Oceanic 6 then? No way are they all dead. You really think they remain two separate groups on the island permanently? I doubt that very much.
I think it is pretty clear that Locke has gone off the rails entirely. Where as Jack would convene the little leadership group for decision making (not that anybody in that group would ever abide by their own decisions), Locke is just barking orders.
We'll see! :)
Sawyer and he yukking it up over what 'sheep' the rest of the castaways are doesn't exhibit much of a grasp on reality,
Hey, it was Sawyer that said that, and Locke seemed kind of surprised to hear him say it. He kinda brushed the remark aside, I didn't hear any indication from Locke that he regarded his team as being sheep.
Staying in Otherton is a hair-brained idea. It is too identifiable of a target, and the strike could come either from the gas mask equipped Freighter Folk, or the remnants of the Others who have a much better grasp of the island than Locke does.
Prediction: They aren't going to stay there. Like Locke said, it's temporary until they figure out what to do next. The sonic fence actually does make the Barracks somewhat more defendable than most other locations. I still don't understand why (apparently) they don't have the fence up and running, though.
Instead of doing anything proactive, the 'Dear Leader' hangs around Ben's house cooking chicken and breaking dishes. That group is well and truly screwed. At least Jack's has a chance.
lol. What proactive things has Jack done? Lately he hasn't really even led, he just sat around while Sayid took action, and watched while his two best guys flew away with the only helicopter! :)
Ha! Prediction made, we'll see! What do you think it going to happen to everybody else besides the Oceanic 6 then? No way are they all dead. You really think they remain two separate groups on the island permanently? I doubt that very much.
sgtdraino once the O6 have left, of the main group of Losties I think Rose and Bernard are the only ones left who weren't already with Locke, and Rose said she would never go with "that man" anyhow ..... Plus the redshirts who must be so confused by now ..... And when Jack leaves who will lead them ? Desmond ?
We'll see!
I still have faith in Locke and his rather dodgy disciples !
Hey, it was Sawyer that said that, and Locke seemed kind of surprised to hear him say it. He kinda brushed the remark aside, I didn't hear any indication from Locke that he regarded his team as being sheep.
Could it have been in reference to Jack's constant trailing of everyone up hill and down dale ? And I think Sawyer was describing Jack's team as sheep, not Locke's. And let face it Sawyer is not exactly a follower.
Prediction: They aren't going to stay there. Like Locke said, it's temporary until they figure out what to do next. The sonic fence actually does make the Barracks somewhat more defendable than most other locations. I still don't understand why (apparently) they don't have the fence up and running, though.
If they stay too long, regardless if they get the fence up and running, they are going to get soft and lazy (Sawyer, anyone) like they did after they found the hatch. Also I would have thought that the Others would quite like to have their little town back at some stage. Minus the "Lockies" !
lol. What proactive things has Jack done? Lately he hasn't really even led, he just sat around while Sayid took action, and watched while his two best guys flew away with the only helicopter!
And snatched the only means of communication from anyone else who happened to get their hands on it.
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