Putting all the Clues about the Monster Together....

[Sleeestack]

(Cross posted from French Distress Call Thread, and edited for accuracy by suggestions below):

I still think the verbage used in the distress call suggests that the intended recipient would "know" what "it" is... I just had a thought....there has to be something about the island or location that the signal is not heard by the outside world...

If I were stranded on an Island and had the opportunity to make a distress call, I would define the creature in some way to give a head's up to my rescuer. For example, "Help Me! There is a freaken eatmesaurus killing all my homies"...

But the distress call in my view seems intended for a specific recipient. Something that was controlled or locked up, but got free.

What do we know about this creature?

1. It is large enough to move the tops of 30 foot palm trees.

2. It is dexterous enough to pluck the pilot out of the wreckage (either with small pointy teeth--suggesting a smaller head--or a hand/claws with an opposable thumb).

3. The idea for the creature was not originally in the script, suggesting that the genesis for the idea was introduced by Hawaiian legends.

4. It has a vicious roar [or metallic sound] that sounds familiar to someone from [the Bronx], and could be attributed to the Bronx Zoo, construction noises, or subway trains. The sound could also be that of a doorway opening.

5. It is awake both night and day (not purely nocturnal).

6. It is either too large or too cumbersome to outrun humans(Edited by suggestion to add: if it was chasing at all).

7. It killed the pilot and the compadres of the French chick.

8. It is an "it" suggesting some unknown or unfamiliar genus or species.

9. It might not be able to access the black rock (is black rock volcanic? Maybe something to do with the Pele legends. Could the island be volcanic?

10. It did not attack the survivors on the beach (fear of water? Fear of salt? Fear of fire? Fear of too many people?)

11. "It" may be so dangerous that the French refused to rescue the surviving French chick (or like I said above--there is something about the location that prevents the signal from reaching the outside world).

12. The existence of a polar bear suggests that something with zoology may have been going on (when "it" escaped so did the bear?) Maybe the bear was it's food? I also think the bear might evidence proximity to the artic....

13. Wasn't it also in a cage--something which it escaped?

Digression: My buddy Google shows the following in a Hawaiian monster search:

(a) Mamala the surf-rider was a chiefess of kupua character. She is described as a gigantic lizard.

(b) In an old Honolulu legend, a dog-man overthrows the government of Kahanai and becomes the ruling power between Nuuanu Valley and the sea. He is a cannibal and many of the people are killed and eaten by him. He can appear at will either as a man or a dog. (Interesting? Hmmmm.)

(c) In Maui, as legend goes, the king once had a giant rooster which was cruel and destructive. This rooster had magical abilities.

(d) Dragons are among the ghost-gods of the ancient Hawaiians. Known as mo-o and kupuas, they lived in pools or lakes and could appear as animals or human beings according to their wish. Kupuas have a strange double body, and are shapeshifters. Another interesting tidbit is that these shaeshifting dragons are also embedded in other South Pacific cultures, as far west as New Zealand... The New Zealand creatures (Taniwha) are said to inhabit the ocean and inland waters, hiding in deep pools, rivers, lakes and dark caves. In 2002, New Zealand newspapers discuss a situation where a new highway which was being built in the lower wetlands inhabited by the creatures, was stopped by a taniwha. Freak accidents and unfortunate deaths plagued the scheme until, on advice from the local Ngati Naho people, Transit New Zealand moved the route to higher ground.

(e) The indigineous cultures inhabiting the islands of French Polynesia are known for their human sacrifice and cannibalism. The avowed cannibals were found in New Zealand, the Hervey Islands, the Gambier Islands, and the Marquesas. The first settlers in Hawaii are thought to have arrived probably around 500 CE by what archaeologist think were from the Marquesas.

(f) Other Hawaiian Monsters:
Fire Goddess
Night Marchers (spirit warriors)
Pele the Goddess
The Shark Boy
Kanaloa: The Squid God
Maui, The Trickster
The Menehune of Kaua`i (trolls)

I gotta go for now. Anybody an expert on Hawaiian mythology that can tighten up this monster research?

Sources:

encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Kupua (http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Kupua)

myths.allinfoabout.com/feature101.html (http://myths.allinfoabout.com/feature101.html)

www.create.org/myth/11myth.htm (http://www.create.org/myth/11myth.htm)

www.geocities.com/~olelo/legends.html (http://www.geocities.com/~olelo/legends.html)

[Why its Mr U]

While your list is very thought provoking, I'd like to play Devil's advocate for a moment and point out 2 items that may not be correct.

4. It has a vicious roar that sounds familiar to someone from Long Island.I first "lurked" at this board after watching part 1 of the pilot and saw several posts about the "roar" being "metallic" sounding. I have to admit thinking the sound did seem a little "off" for something natural. During the rebroadcast I listened closely and have to say I imagined hearing 2 sounds, one "metallic" and one "natural". The metallic sound seemed to be more at the beginning then stopped and then the sound was more natural sounding. Letting my imagination go, I began to think perhaps it was the opening of a door. Like some undergound passage/pit was opened and a creature emerged (the creature did seem to "appear" out of nowhere). The sounds that are heard when the pilot is yanked from the cockpit don't sound the same to me as the ones heard by the group on the beach.

My point is can we be sure that the noise that sounded familiar to Rose (the black lady from Long Island who sat across the aisle from Dr Jack) was actually made by the creature?

6. It is either too large or too cumbersome to outrun humans.Probably a nitpick but are we sure it was chasing them?

The pilot was yanked out of the cockpit, the plane rolled over, Jack, Kate, and Charlie took off running.... If I had just experienced what happened in the cockpit I'd probably have run and not stopped til I was back in Sydney.

My point is do we ever see any evidence that the creature even started to follow them when they took off? Just because they were running doesn't mean the creature was trying to run after them and couldn't catch up.


One other creature related thought, when we see the pilot's body at the top of the tree it looked bloodied but not "eaten".

[feenie1010]

I thought it was said "The Bronx", not Long Island. Trust me, if you aren't from NYC,most on Long Island would NOT like to be mistaken as being from The Bronx.


IF the sounds is familiar to one from The Bronx, the only sounds I can think of that are metallic and loud is The Subway or The "El", the elevated train line.

[Why its Mr U]

You are quite right, it was the Bronx not Long Island. In another thread people commented about the Bronx Zoo and one person from the Bronx said all they ever heard there was construction equipment.

Trust me, if you aren't from NYC,most on Long Island would NOT like to be mistaken as being from The Bronx.I can imagine. Unless I'm mistaken, Long Island is a weathly suburban area and the Bronx is a predominantly poor minority area in the innercity.

[Iseult of the White Hands]

So I was discussing this with a friend on another board- and she said that when she watched the encore, she noticed that the kid found a Spanish comic with a *polar Bear* in it. She was so floored that she rewound the tape and watched it again. Yep. A polar bear.

Now what could that mean? That the monster manifests itself as whatever people fear the most? Or maybe that there isn't just one "monster" but that perhaps the island itself somehow absorbs the thoughts and fears of whoever is there and brings that into existence? That might explain why the monster that attacked the pilot didn't really sound precisely like what they saw tearing through the trees. One thing was organic, another was metallic.

It makes me think of two things: the Twilight Zone episode about the little boy who could make anything he wanted happen, and The Voyage of the Dawn Treader, where they encountered the island where dreams come true.

[Sleeestack]

Good points--I edited it for accuracy.

Let's add to the list of the clues!

[beachbum4526]

Like Why its Mr U said, The pilot, did look bloody, and not in peices, maybe he wasnt dead. Maybe he was just unconcius?

~Amberlynn

[pinnerman]

Good thread, I just realized something reading it. Who's to say the "it" that wasted all the French people wasn't a polar bear? Think about it. If a few poor Frenchies got stuck on the island and didn't have any real weapons, what chance would they have stood against that polar bear's ancestors? Maybe it's the same bear, they can live for a while. All I know is that the bear in the first episode came in very aggressively at the search party, it was definitely acting in a carnivorous manner. The only reason no one got killed is they had a gun, a weapon capable of killing it. I haven't seen any evidence that the huge things making all the noise and taking trees down are naturally threatening. The pilot was not eaten either.

Here's my response from another thread where they were suggesting gorillas or packs of carnivores:

There's a very, very small (like 3%) chance that a gorilla is responsible for the movement of the trees at night in the first episode. Go back and watch the tape and listen. There was a palm tree that WENT DOWN. Completely. Like all the way down, snapped down in one instant motion. It was there, and then it wasn't there. There is no gorilla in the history of science that could do that. Also, the creatures that appeared that night made no sounds that are consistent with a gorilla or ape or any primate or any other pack of carnivores. What they did make were loud thundering booms with their steps.

And as far as needing large piles of dung to confirm their existence, how much of this island have they explored so far? Come on, lets take a realistic guess, 2, maybe 3% of it? That place is huge and they've basically sent two mini-search parties on straight line paths to find the cockpit and to get to high ground to use the radio. That's it. We saw them come running back from the first trip, so I doubt they had any time to search for crap. The second episode ended with them still on the side of the mountain, so we haven't seen them come back from that jaunt yet. So what some of you are saying is we should completely rule out the possibility of large animals because, after one night on this island, they haven't inadvertently stepped in any animal feces, is that pretty much it? Come on people, that's extremely faulty logic. That's like saying there must be no birds on the island because we haven't seen any nests or eggs yet.

These things obviously don't have their home base set up on the beach. They were attracted to the fires that first night and they traveled to check them out. Something had come into or near their territory and they responded by stopping by to investigate. That's all they did the first night. They didn't charge the beach, and there were at least two of them. They didn't follow the smell of death and walk right up to the fuselage, which to a group of carnivores, would be like a buffet. They did none of that. They showed up, did a little landscaping and some light tree removal, and they made a bunch of really frightening sounds, that for all we know, are completely natural. This is what the producers want, they're playing off the fear element. I'm not saying these things aren't dangerous, but we don't know enough about them yet to start ruling anything out. What I will say is that whatever is making the booms when it walks and is taking trees down with little effort is probably very big in terms of mass and density, but not necessarily tall.

If some of you want to speculate about different creatures being responsible for the attack on the cockpit, feel free. Maybe there are a couple kinds of creatures. The problem is that when you watch it on tape, the same booms are heard in the cockpit scene, the same sounds are made, and a shadow passes over the cockpit window. Elephants can stand on their back legs, therefore, any of their ancestors probably could too, and the trunks on the older models were very long, like their tusks. That would give it the reach it would need to get someone out of the cockpit, and it's also big enough that it easily could have knocked the cockpit down to the ground. I doubt a single, smaller animal climbing a tree could have been powerful enough to do that.

Bottom line, gorillas and carnivores don't take trees down, so it's unlikely that's what showed up near the beach the first night, just my opinion.

[walkingcarpet23]

Who's to say the "it" that wasted all the French people wasn't a polar bear? Think about it. If a few poor Frenchies got stuck on the island and didn't have any real weapons, what chance would they have stood against that polar bear's ancestors? Maybe it's the same bear, they can live for a while. All I know is that the bear in the first episode came in very aggressively at the search party, it was definitely acting in a carnivorous manner.

Interesting theory, but if it had been a polar bear you'd think she would've said "the mean polar bear killed them" or something to that extent. The fact that she said "it" leads me to believe it's the same unknown phenomenon/creature the new castaways are seeing.

On a semi-related note about polar bears I seem to recall reading somewhere that they're the only animals who will actually hunt humans, anyone know if that's true?

[pinnerman]

That's not entirely true. It is true that polar bears will attack people, that's why Eskimos usually steer clear of them. But there are other kinds of bears that will attack people too.

My only point to answer your question about why the French chick said "it" and not "polar bear" is this: the writers would never be stupid enough to let that happen. Come on now, you don't think in episode two they're going to write in a radio message that says "The large polar bear, an animal that's not indigenous to these parts, systematically hunted and ate all the rest of those in my company. In true French fashion, most of us just laid down and surrendered whenever the bear showed up, so he'd come about once a week to eat us and this has continued until now when only I, the scrawniest and least meaty of the group, am the only one left. Please come soon...I bid you all adieu. Fin."

You're not going to get that! Come on its a show, they're going to be ambiguous like that all season, its what keeps people like us speculating.

[walkingcarpet23]

"The large polar bear, an animal that's not indigenous to these parts, systematically hunted and ate all the rest of those in my company. In true French fashion, most of us just laid down and surrendered whenever the bear showed up, so he'd come about once a week to eat us and this has continued until now when only I, the scrawniest and least meaty of the group, am the only one left. Please come soon...I bid you all adieu. Fin."

LOL, that's quality. But yeah, obviously in terms of writing that'd be the case but I was just thinking in terms of common sense. If I was sending a distress signal I don't think I'd say "it" unless I really didn't know what the thing was.

[pinnerman]

There's a lot of things that don't make common sense about this show so far. The biggest things I was struggling with were 1) How is this not a known island, it's big enough where it would have been inhabited and it would definitely show up on satellite photography. 2) How has the distress signal (more like an "I give up" message) lasted for 16 years?

The thing is I've come up with a master theory that explains everything. I don't know if it's right or not, but I'll put it this way, if it's not right, I can't think of anything they would come up with that would be any better. I'm very afraid that when we do find out what the deal is with the island that I'm going to be disappointed.

[walkingcarpet23]

Care to elaborate on your master theory? I've read your theories regarding the mammoth/polar bear and the island itself and they're quite interesting.

In regards to the island being uncharted and the 16 year playback, they both very well may be explained. Remember, if we can sit around and find loopholes I'm sure the writers can as well.

[feenie1010]

They didn't follow the smell of death and walk right up to the fuselage, which to a group of carnivores, would be like a buffet. They did none of that.

Would the fuselage when burning give off an odor that could repel the animals? Doesn't gasoline prevent animals, usually dogs, from tracking a scent? Could this be a reason as to why the "it" didn't any closer than it has?

[pinnerman]

The new theory is coming, hopefully tomorrow night because I have a business trip Tuesday night through Wednesday night and I won't be able to post for a couple days. I'll have to tape it and watch it Thursday morning. I'll be back on Thursday though, to sift through all the blow back and follow-ups. Some of the full timers are discussing some preliminary stuff about it on JacksGirlfriend's "Time Loops" post over on the general board if you want more info.

And if you're saying you have explanations for the power source for the message AND why no one knows about the island, please throw it in here. Thanks.

[walkingcarpet23]

Alright, I'll throw some of my thoughts into the mix.

Distress Call - This makes perfect sense in my opinion. I believe fully that the French woman is still alive and has devised a way to keep the message running. This could be through technology she had from whatever vessel she crashed onto the island in, who knows.

The Island - A little more difficult. The only possible explanation that is based in reality would be that at some point in time something happened on the island which caused it to be quarentined by whatever government, I'm talking full blown cover-up here. No planes fly over it, no ships sail near it, it's completely "erased" from existance. Now assuming that theory is correct, why they've done this is anyone's guess but it's the only thing I can think of as to why no one goes there.

[pinnerman]

Yeah, I say the casting sheets for the French lady, so she could show up and be controlling the message.

There's some new developments over on my mammoth theory post in the general section, someone found a link between actual French scientists and their experiments to clone a mammoth by using an elephant as a surrogate.

[Sleeestack]

Interesting point on the mammoth. Would the mammoth make a trumpeting noise?

Here is some quick French Cloning Factoids:

1. Three years ago, French explorer Bernard Buigues spotted what turned out to be a mammoth tusk poking up from the frozen soil along the Bolchaya Balakhnya River in Siberia. He named it Jarkov after the family whose 9-year-old had found it several months earlier. When its teeth were carbon dated they were found to be connected to a 47-year-old animal that had died 20,000 years before.

Last fall, a multinational team of jackhammer-toting scientists led by Buigues successfully chiseled out a 23,000-pound block of permafrost containing the mammoth. With the help of a Russian heavy-lift helicopter, they moved it to an ice cave where it remains preserved.

If the mammoth meat--a term scientists would never use--is as fresh as hoped, it may be possible to extract enough undamaged genetic material to
create a living relative of an animal that has been extinct for 10,000 years.

Cursory genetic examinations suggest the Jarkov mammoth is male. "There's a chance we could get a sample of frozen sperm," says Northern Arizona University paleontologist Larry Agenbroad, a scientist working on the expedition.

Like the sperm of any other warmblooded male, mammoth sperm contains only half the genes needed to create an offspring. This is not a problem. DNA analysis performed on Baby Dima, a mammoth found in 1977, suggests that the Jarkov mammoth might be sufficiently close to the Asian elephant for recovered sperm to fertilize an elephant egg. The offspring of this more or less standard artificial fertilization procedure wouldn't be a mammoth. However, over time selective breeding could wring out all the "elephant" traits, producing a mammoth.

If sperm is unavailable, the explorers would attempt to bring back cells with healthy DNA. Using the technique Ian Wilmut, of Scotland's Roslin Institute, developed to create Dolly the woolly sheep, it should be possible to produce Milly the woolly mammoth.

Genetic engineers believe that the cloning side of the operation, while difficult, would not be impossible. Since Dolly was introduced to a global television audience a few years ago, genetic engineers around the world have been making steady progress toward perfecting the art of cloning replicas of adult animals. Drug companies are driving this research. Their plan is to genetically modify one animal to produce, say, a cancer-fighting drug in its milk. Then, they hope to use cloning to produce an entire herd of genetically identical "twins" (see "Natural Born Factories," March 1998, page 66).

2. Perhaps the most important aspect of this discovery is the possibility that this mammoth may be able to be cloned. While mammoths had 58 chromosomes and their modern relative the elephants have only 56, researchers think cross breading may be possible between the two species. Of course, to cross breed the researchers need to find a way to fertilize an elephant. If the species is a male some of the scientists believe they may actually be able to extract frozen sperm and artifically inseminate a modern elephant. Using frozen sperm is a common practice in the livestock industry, but no one is quite sure if using 10,000 year old sperm would actually work. But, if there is the possibility of recreating a mammoth, we will have to wait until at least three years to give Mol and his team time to study the remains.


Sources:

robby.nstemp.com/custom3.html (http://robby.nstemp.com/custom3.html)

www.geocities.com/stegob/mammoth.html (http://www.geocities.com/stegob/mammoth.html)

[Suil Liath]

1. Polar bears are strictly carnivorous. They are the only 100% carnivorous bear,
2. I should think the French would have been smart enough to develop bear-safe habitat etc. People have coexisted with polar bears for a long time. Why should the companions of the French woman be any different? Ergo, I don't think she is referring to the polar bear or bears when she says her companions are dead. Needless to say she could have been there with only a couple of people who weren't very bright (a la Alien. "Here, kitty kitty kitty!")
3. Whatever is rattling the tree tops seems to like to stay in the forest, rather then come out in the open.
4. It was tall enough to reach into the cockpit ad snag the pilot. It either carried him off and tossed him, and he died as a result of THAT. (or it peeled him like a grape and then tossed him)
5. The height of the thing moving the trees is questionable. It could be short and large and massive (a la Pinnerman's mammoths) because as we know, trees get slimmer as you go up. If wind can move the tree tops, something strong and not that tall can do the same as it brushes by and leans against the tree trunks.
6. Beware of red herrings. A red herring is a plot device writers throw in to put the reader/viewer off the scent.


-Kit-

[pinnerman]

I'm telling ya, its all about the island.

[Why its Mr U]

What about a giant snake of some sort? That would explain how it could get on top of the cockpit, still not be seen clearly, the pilot's body not being covered with bite marks (a constrictor snake would crush), etc. Yes a giant snake has been sooo done before but what hasn't really?

Thinking about all the creature has to do, I actually think its going to turn out to be several different kinds of creatures not one specific breed. After all from a story point of view that has several advantages. You can have things happen that are irreconcilable (large lumbering knocking down trees but able to get on top of the cockpit and trees without being so large its impossible not to see). The viewers are left pulling their hair out trying to figure out what "it" is or could be. This also fits with the fact that the creature supposedly wasn't going to be part of the storyline.

But in the distress call, the French lady does refer to an "it", "it killed them all" and "its outside", so that does poke a hole in the multiple animals theory.

Here's another nutty idea, according to lostisland's translation in the does anybody speak Korean thread

"Il sont morts, ils sont tous morts" ---- they are dead, they are all dead...

"Venez nous aidez" ---- come to help us...

"Je vais essayer d'aller jusqu'au rocher noir" ---- I am trying to reach the black rock...

"Si qui que ce soit puisse entendre ceci" ---- If someone can hear this...

"Il les a tué... Il les a tué tous" ---- It kill them, it kill them all

"Il est dehors, et Brendon a pris les clefs" ---- It's outside, and Brendon (or Brennan, may be Brenda, it's not very well-pronounced) took the keys...The part about keys has me thinking mechanical as well as the possible mechanical sound so maybe its a robot gone amok. Bren-whatever took the keys so she (lady sending message) can't shut it off. The black rock has magnetic properties that interfere with the robot's power source/operations so she'd be safe there. Well just another out-there theory to speculate on.