Watership Down Clue

[zetetic1]

Sawyer was reading "Watership Down" early in this week's episode. The book is one of my favorites from childhood, and it follows a group of rabbits (yes, rabbits) as they flee the destruction of their habitat in hopes of finding a better place to call home.

Clearly, this fits in the "White Rabbit" episode title. My guess is that there will be even more parallels between "Lost" and "Watership Down" as the episodes progress. Read the reviews of the book & the animated movie and you'll quickly see the connection.

Here's the book:
www.amazon.com/exec/obido...s&n=507846 (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0380002930/qid=1098389512/sr=8-1/ref=pd_csp_1/104-9063775-9022323?v=glance&s=books&n=507846)

Here's a link to the movie adaptation:
www.imdb.com/title/tt0078480/ (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0078480/)

[SecretSquirrel911]

The Movie's Tagline:

All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a Thousand Enemies, and when they catch you, they will kill you... but first they must catch you.

[bigmouth]

Or maybe the significance is symbolic? As you point out, like the rabbits therein, the castaways here have been ripped from their homes and forced to create a new community in foreign lands.

[KimmysHooked]

The episode was called "White Rabbit" from Alice in Wonderland...

The book was definitely "Watership Down"

Charlie's tattoo was a line from "Strawberry Fields Forever" by the Beatles

Lots of magical stories referenced last night!

[edens demise]

Well it's been a long time since I've read this book but I want to quote a few sentences from the amazon description because I think it is relevant.

It is a powerful saga of courage, leadership and survival; an epic tale of a hardy band of adventurers forced to flee the destruction of their fragile community...and their trials and triumphs in the face of extraordinary adversity as they pursue a glorious dream called "home."

Watership Down is a remarkable tale of exile and survival, of heroism and leadership...the epic novel of a group of adventurers who desert their doomed city, and venture forth against all odds on a quest for a new home, a sturdier future,

[myerinmama]

It is one of the clues that the show keeps going back to--- it must mean something then. Otherwise, they could have thrown in any book instead but they keep going back to WD

[deelsee7]

I agree, myerinmama. It's been YEARS since I read it, but I do remember that Fiver was an insigficant member of rabbit society who became a savior to his followers. Dare I compare Locke to Fiver?

Take that, all you 'Locke is evil' posters!:lol

[Hawkmistress]

Read IMDB synopsis - could "powerful and insane General Woundwart" be crazy French lady who I think bonked Sayid on the head or perhaps the "Brendan" from the French expedition?

Now I'm going to have to get a copy of "Watership Down" and read it and maybe rent the DVD too. Sounds like quite a story.

[Wynter Zera]

What we need is a post that lists all the Watership Down characters and which is related to which character.

This book is getting mentioned WAY too much...I'm starting to think it maybe more significant than we thought.

[LockeRules]

The Watership Down Characters:

Hazel: Hazel is the leader and the young hero of the rabbit group. He stay together with Primrose, and he is the older brother of the all seeing Fiver.

Fiver: Fiver is one of the youngest rabbits. He is very sensitive and have visions about tomorrow. He is the younger brother of the hero Hazel.

Pipkin: Pipkin is the youngest of the group. He is sweet, all like him, and he can speak well with animals.

Blackberry: Blackberry is very quiet and know everything about warrens. She help you if you need help and she is one of the 2 female rabbits in Watership Down.

Hannah: Hannah is a little Field-Mouse, she came with Keehar to Watership Down (Series 1), and stay with the rabbits.

Keehar: Keehar is a gull from the "great water". He comes with the Field-Mouse Hannah to Watership Down, and fly in the sky to warn the other rabbits, if there is an enemy.

Bigwig: Bigwig is the Owsla chief. He train Hawkbit, Pipkin, Fiver, Dandelion and Strawberry. He is very loud and hard!

Dandelion: Dandelion is the storyteller. He tell the storys about frith, and he is a little comedian :D

Hawkbit: Hawkbit is very roughly and sometimes commonly, but is there a danger, he stand by his friends.

Primrose: Primrose comes from Efrafa. She is Hazels "Girlfriend", and she isnt very often to see.

Campion: Campion is a rabbit between two sites. The bad site, and the good site. He like Primrose, and he help the Watership Down rabbits often.

Woundworth: He is a very bad rabbit. In every series are bad persons, in WD too. The evil is General Woundworth. Efrafa belongs to him, Vervain and Campion are his best mans!

Vervain: Vervain is, so I think the badest rabbit of all Efrafans. Woundworth himself too, but I think Vervain is more bad!

[jjabramizeme]

This book is getting mentioned WAY too much...I'm starting to think it maybe more significant than we thought.

Yeah, I think I'm going to spend my weekend reading the book...for the first time. Especially if it has this much signficance.

[Colonel Sanders luvs Lost]

Fiver: Fiver is one of the youngest rabbits. He is very sensitive and have visions about tomorrow. He is the younger brother of the hero Hazel.

Thanks for the character breakdown LockeRules. I think "Fiver" could be Hurley. This description may play into a revelation/spoiler in an upcoming episode about him.

Spoiler link!!! - Checkout the General Season 1 spoilers at the bottom of this link: www.spoilerfix.com/lost.php (http://www.spoilerfix.com/lost.php)

[Lilybunny]

you know I used to have this wonder if the number 5 was connected with Lost in the way that Alias has 48 - everytime I think of this book and "Fiver" it makes me smile with that theory in mind.

It's been a long time since I've read Watership Down, so I can't remember the details so please forgive me if I mess this up, but one part always stuck in my mind. The rabbits come across a warren of rabbits in what at first seems to be an ideal and happy society, only something is wrong. some of the rabbits are missing and no one will talk about what happened to them (we find that the rabbits are being fed by a man who kills them for food). the rabbits don't want to accept the fact that there is something bad about the place because it is providing them with nourishment, shelter, etc.

It would be interesting if either the caves are such a place - after all they've found two dead bodies there - but it's so 'ideal' with the shelter and the water, that the fact that there were dead people there is not mentioned.

Don't shoot me if this is a weird theory...but it's something I've wondered about.

[edens demise]

Wow this is some awesome stuff. Thanks for posting all those characters.

[kittymistress]

OK, I will try not to sound like an English Lit teacher here. WD is on my list of all-time favorite books, so I have read it many times and am very familiar with it. Just a little correction: Blackberry is a buck, not a doe, and he is the "thinker" of the group, the one who can come up with good plans. And I am not sure who "Primrose" is in the above post. Hazel's eventual mate is Hyzenthlay (which means "fur shining like dew") and she, like Fiver, is something of a visionary. While WD is a great adventure story, it is also an allegory of different societies, and I think this is where the Lost writers may be headed. What kind of society (or societies) will the survivors form? In WD there are three distinct societies: the Socialist society (mentioned in a post above), a Military Dictatorship society (run by Woundwort, the very bad rabbit), and the free and open society of Watership Down. While I have been having fun trying to make parallels between characters, I think the Lost writers may be aiming for the bigger picture here.

[Southernmapart]

I agree that LOST writers are looking at the bigger social picture.

"don't want to accept the fact that there is something bad about the place because it is providing them with nourishment, shelter, etc."

This statement exactly paraphases the condition of US society of soccer Moms driving SUVs who disregard the effect of the cost on other people. 8)

[Lothiriel of Rohan]

Great posts everyone...

__________________________________________________ __

Quote:

While WD is a great adventure story, it is also an allegory of different societies, and I think this is where the Lost writers may be headed. What kind of society (or societies) will the survivors form? In WD there are three distinct societies: the Socialist society (mentioned in a post above), a Military Dictatorship society (run by Woundwort, the very bad rabbit), and the free and open society of Watership Down.

__________________________________________________ __

It has been SO long since I read Watership Down but I still have the book after all these years. I loved the book and am looking forward to reading it to my grandson.

So far I would say the survivors have not created a free and open society given the recent torture of Sawyer without any kind of trial. We had two characters, Jack and Sayid, who decided the "only alternative" was to torture Sawyer in order to get the inhalers. They did not look to other alternatives that were available including teaching Shannon how to breathe and the use of eucalyptus leaves used by Sun. Jack and Sayid appointed themselves judge, jury and executioner on the decisions Sawyer was guilty of having the inhalers and what the punishment should be.

So maybe they will learn from their mistakes and take their new "society" in another direction. What was even more incredible is that the rest of them, other than Kate, did nothing to stop Sayid and Jack even though a few of them had to hear his screams.

It will be interesting to see where the writers take us from here. Any thoughts on this?

Thank you LockesRule and kittymistress for a description of the characters.

[JacksGirlfriend]

It has been SO long since I read Watership Down but I still have the book after all these years. I loved the book and am looking forward to reading it to my grandson.

What??? Sorry to change the subject here... but, Loth, you are talking future grandson here right? The way it's phrased sounds like you have one now. Is this possible?

JacksGirl

[Lothiriel of Rohan]

Nah...he is a current grandson, age 4 years old, by the name of Domenic. Beautiful child!!!:D

[joepa15425]

I missed this thread when I posted this on the board recently, I'm adding it here, cause it belongs here.

Hello all, thought it was time to throw my two cents in. Hopefully you will find what I'm about to say at least interesting. This is my first post, but I’ve been lurking for quite some time. I've looked for a theory like mine, but haven't found one. If this is somebody else’s, then I'm sorry, and well done because I think this is the path to understanding LOST.

OK. Like many of you, I have been approaching the mysteries of lost much the same way a detective analyzes a crime or an archeologist studies the pyramids. For example, I wanted to weigh in when I actually had something to say, so I decided to sit down, re watch all the episodes, study them with great care, making notes, asking myself questions, searching for clues. I did that today. What I found was kinda obscure yet so obvious that I felt the writer was smiling from ear to ear knowing he 'got us'.

See the reason my approach was flawed is because this crime hasn't happened yet, and the pyramid wasn't built yet. Meaning, who the hell knows what's gonna happen in the end. Yes we all know that it's fiction, but we delve into the what ifs, whys and hows. I bet if you asked the writer, he would say he doesn't know either, not yet. But I believe I found the common thread. Although I haven't found the answers we all want (I still believe they don’t' all exist yet), I have found the Rosetta Stone that I believe can and will reveal the secrets. They may not be the ones we want, but here goes anyhow.

Alrighty, like I said, I rewatched all the episodes and took notes, blah blah blah. Whilst perusing my copious notes one episode stood out like a sore thumb. Not for the obvious reasons but for the not so obvious one. For example, each episode had some kind of island drama in it, monsters, treetop pilots, polar bears, transmissions, dead people walking, attacks from behind, french women. All but one that is— episode 8, Confidence Man.

It was a good episode, but nothing really happens that makes you wonder. It seemed all the questions were answered. It got me thinking. This would be a great time to give the big clue. The one if I’m the writer, I can point out later and say, why didn’t you see it, it was so obvious. Maybe the reason we didn’t see it (and again if somebody did mention this I’ll defer credit) is because the most it seems we could discuss about that episode was whether or not Locke was the real Sawyer (yawn). I had no notes on episode 8, as I wasn’t looking for character threads, just island mysteries. No notes cept one–WATERSHIP DOWN, the book Sawyer was reading, that belonged to Boone.

Out of curiosity and because I work near the local library I checked the book out today. I’m not gonna pretend I read it, I didn’t (it’s over 400 pages). I rented the movie instead, and watched it. There were so many obvious references to LOST I didn’t even have to pay attention to catch them. I’m sure I missed the most important, or perhaps they lie in the book where I think our favorite writer would be a bigger fan. I’m not gonna get into detail about the story. But basically it’s about a bunch of rabbits who because of a psychic vision by one of the rabbits leave there home for a new place to live. Basically most of the rabbits aren’t high up on the pecking order, aren’t highly regarded, (sound familiar?) So they leave because of impending doom as foretold by the vision. Along the way they come in contact with other rabbits and other natural dangers that threaten them, basically they long for peace and tranquility. Along the way, they realize they have no female rabbits so the must go steal some from the local farmer. In addition they do battle with an evil General (what was Locke called by his Risk playing buddy?)
Did you all notice the scratches on Kate and Jacks faces through most of the early episodes, hell the might still be there for all I know they are so obvious. Well in the book some rabbits are given a mark to identify who belongs to who by being scratched. The marks look striking similar to our two heroes.

In the beginning of their quest, just as it’s beginning, one of the rabbits is suddenly and unexpectedly killed. Not much to it, it just happens, and nothing is said again about it. Sound like the woman drowning early on?

Let’s see what else? (I’m saving the big one for the end) The song in the movie sung by Art Garfunkel is called Bright Eyes. What’s a pet name Sawyer calls Kate?

There’s more but I’ll leave it to you guys to investigate further, if you are so inclined, but here’s something from the book I noticed while I was checking it out. In the back of the book is a section called Lapine Glossary. The very first entry is (this comes word for word from the book) Bob-Stones: A Traditional game among rabbits. (See footnote on page 246.)

Turning to page 246, the following is the footnote, verbatim. * Bob-stones is a traditional game of rabbits. It is played with small stones, fragments of stick or the like. Fundamentally it is a very simple kind of gambling, on the lines of “Odds or Evens” A “cast” of stones on the ground is covered by the player’s front paw. The Opponent must then hazard some sort of surmise about its nature–e.g. one or two, light or dark, rough or smooth.

I’ll leave you with that, I think it’s obvious. The series, I believe is based perhaps loosely perhaps not, on Watership Down.&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Sorry about the earlier botched post, my pc sometimes has a mind of it’s own.

[Oswald]

In the beginning of their quest, just as it’s beginning, one of the rabbits is suddenly and unexpectedly killed. Not much to it, it just happens, and nothing is said again about it. Sound like the woman drowning early on?


Or the guy getting sucked into the engine in the pilot.