BUILDING THE STORYLINE BEHIND THE CLUES [Archive]

see you in the next life

05-09-06, 11:53 PM

THE PURPOSE OF THIS THREAD IS TO CONNECT THE DOTS (GIVE MEANING AND CONTEXT) BASED ON THE CLUES AND INFORMATION PRESENTED IN THE LOST EXPERIENCE.

THIS WILL BEGIN IN EARNEST ON MAY 10, 2006.

Many thanks to goAlvar..................

goAlvar (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/member.php?u=4951) vbmenu_register("postmenu_720377", true);
Lost Cause

http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/image.php?u=4951&dateline=1148998121 (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/member.php?u=4951)

Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: in the Hanso ad
Posts: 1,218

http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/images/icons/icon1.gif Re: BUILDING THE STORYLINE BEHIND THE CLUES
40,000 BC
Cave paintings of light colored dogs are found near Ceci Est Tout Faux,France. Scrawl around imagery is translated: yellow dog warns us all.1899
A yellow Labrador is born to Black Lab mother in Austrailia. The Porter family,who owned the dog, insists it be burned as an abomination. He is saved by the child of a kindly servant named Lloyd.1903
Lord Dilfer of Trent barely avoids death from an oncoming carriage. He later says he was warned by a friend, though he was accompanied by no one but his loyal yellow Labrador retriever.1938
Vincent 'Wally' Bolé is born but not into greatness. That will be thrust upon him soon enough.1959
Peter Thompson born in Terre Haute, Indiana
The government's secret testing and experimentation on Yellow Labs is leaked to the press by a clerk at the hidden facility in the Yellowstone National Park. He tells reporters he was 'compelled' to reveal the information.1967
Alvar Hanso's address to the UN Security Council1986
24 May (Houston) Jacob Vanderfield was arrested and sentenced to four years for taking bribes from a Chinese ciagrette smuggling syndicate. Served 6 months in a federal country club.1989
Lawrence Peck was sentenced to 8 years for insider trading which he subsidized through a retirement fund for a health care union. Served 18 months in a minimum security facility1991
12 homeless men sleeping beneath scaffolding of a building under construction in New York City's lower east side escaped death just before the scaffolding collapsed. When asked how they managed to get away without injury they told authorities that a yellow dog warned them. All were immediately committed.1994
Peter Thompson defends the Williamsburg Tobacco Company1998
Peter Thompson defends Globoco Oil2000
14 June : Alvar Hanso in London
12 November : Alvar Hanso in Copenhagen2001
After extensive work with yellow labs, Vincent 'Wally' Bolé creates The Retrievers of Truth.
Peter Thompson defends the nuclear power plant in Southern Georgia
01 January : Alvar Hanso in Copenhagen (This after being in Rome)
23 February : Alvar Hanso in Paris
12 July : Alvar Hanso in Geneva
18 September : Alvar Hanso in Roma
28 October : Solar Flare in early morning hours2002
31 December : Alvar Hanso in Madrid (Last public appearance according to Persephone)2003
28 October : Alvar Hanso photographed according to THF.org (in Narvik City Hall)2004
16 August : Christine DeVries (Senior Editor from Walkabout Publishing) congratulates Troup on Bad Twin, and calls him to Sydney.
23 August : Gary Troup replies to DeVries, he'd be delighted to visit Sydney in early September.
22 September : Oceanic Airlines Flight 815 crashes.
16 September : Gary Troup is interviewed by Laird Granger.2005
19 September : Letter from GWC to CDC, about THF (written by Jacques Maillot)
19 September : Letter from GHO (written by Jacques Maillot) to Per Lunquist and Einar Ragnarsson, requesting THF to desist all operations in Zanzibar (old Hanso site)
21 September : Hanso press release : Joop is 105 years old, by Einarsson (old Hanso site)
21 September : "The things that aren't said can be more important than those that are."Dr. Vincent "Wally" Bolé, to the members of the Hanso Foundation.
22 September : "It's not just that they're trying to talk to us, they're also listening... intently."Dr. Vincent "Wally" Bolé, at a conference in Australia.
25 September : Letter from GWC to CDC, about THF (written by Peter Thompson)
4 October : Letter from GHO (written by Jacques Maillot) to Per Lundquist and Einar Ragnarssson about the good work in Zanzibar and thanks for the fund. (old Hanso site)2006
Dr. Vincent "Wally" Bolé launched ROT site to massive praise and overwhelming newsletter requests.
5 January : Breakthrough in population growth modeling
24 February : Fax from DaimlerChrysler to Peter Thompson, confirming the VIP for the 2007 contract year.
10 March: Fax from DaimlerChrysler to Peter Thompson, rescinding the fleet contract due to the events in ????
17-19 March : Peter Thompson in hotel La Dolce Vita, Paris
5 May : THF news release : our site is experiencing a disruption
12 May : THF news release : Don't believe Bad Twin
17 May : Peter Thompson in London
24 May : Hugh McIntyre from THF on Jimmy Kimmel
25 May : Hyperion Press runs an ad in USA Today, defending Bad Twin
26 May : Cape Town Inquisitor article : Hospital Raid.
29 May : Cape Town Inquisitor retracts the article about the hospital raid.

see you in the next life

05-09-06, 11:53 PM

SPACE RESERVED

see you in the next life

05-09-06, 11:54 PM

TO BE CONTINUED

see you in the next life

05-09-06, 11:55 PM

PLACEHOLDER

manar

05-10-06, 08:13 PM

SYITNL : I hope it's the place for this .

This is a little preview of what I've been working on , it's a flowchart of what's been going on in the ARG , it probably will be a pdf doc and where you see the (+) signs you can click and go to the related files ;-)

Don't expect this anysoon ( I'd say a 10 day timeframe for a first draft, t's ok ?! ) , if you're interested , REMIND ME as - well I'm not lazy but ... - I've got so many things in my head I won't ever finnish if you don't press me .

So uuh , the preview :

http://freejobs.free.fr/LostARG/lostchart.jpg

That's all for now . Regards ... Manar

PS : Updated image on 05/11 , hope it's not getting bloated .

3-Putt

05-11-06, 12:42 AM

...
How important to you think Bad Twin is going to become?
...

Just a thought, but it seems to me that Gary Troup was silenced (silened ?) because he knew too much. What he knew too much about wasn't necessarily contained in "Bad Twin", though there are almost certainly clues in there.

In the "Book Talk" interview by Laird Granger, it is revealed that copies of Troup's other book, "The Valenzetti Equation", have mysteriously virtually disappeared. Did Hanso buy up/gather up as many copies of that book as possible in an attempt to squelch whatever truth about Valenzetti that may have been divulged by Troup ?

http://lostpedia.com/wiki/The_Valenzetti_Equation

"Unknown equation purportedly used to predict the end of the world, and referenced on the blast door map (http://lostpedia.com/wiki/Blast_door_map),..."

Publisher's Summary

What if a mathematical equation could predict the apocalypse? Using recently-declassified material and hundreds of hours of interviews with former employees of the United Nations and prominent members of the defense and academic establishment, best-selling author Gary Troup turns his finely honed sense of mystery toward one of the most vexing mathematical riddles of our time.
_____

This could all be a red herring dead end, of course, or it could be that one of the major easter eggs in the Lost Experience will be the full or partial text of the "Valenzetti Equation", the contents of which could be incredibly illuminating regarding the motivations of Hanso and/or DHARMA.

_____

I sure hope they don't come to shut me up, too. Wait, there's someone knocking at my

see you in the next life

05-11-06, 12:00 PM

Manar and 3-Putt.............thanks for the input here. I have been a little slow getting started on this thread. I like what you have done Manar and appreciate the input from 3-Putt. I would like to see you continue to build that flow chart. At the same time, I will attempt to actually provide a narrative of the things revealed in the ARG along with assertions (labelled as such and not labelled as fact)....for example, "is it possible that Hanso has been kidnapped or permanently silenced, or has he chosen to disappear." Get my point? I think it is important to not get so bogged down by finding the clues and reveals that we don't develop the story being told in a coordinated and narrative fashion.

3-Putt, as for Bad Twin.....my initial feeling was that I would not include Bad Twin in this narrative. However, with the latest newspaper ad, I now believe that Bad Twin will in some way be crucial in developing the story from this ARG. This will be a big project. You will all have to be a little patient with me....at the moment I am stunned and disoriented from last nights events. For me personally, the singular defining moment in the show was the first viewing of the original Orientation film. Given that, you can see why I was a little shaken last night.

LAN

05-11-06, 12:19 PM

HEY SYITNL

Take all the time you need, its your baby. I have been trying to figure out an easy way to catalog the history that we know already, and you are right its a very big project, since there are so many possibilities. I will try to help with this if I can, fridays are usually my best catch-up days.

Thanks for organazing this.

Now I need to go tackle GD and see what others have put together from last night. Best episode in a long time.

Reiteration

05-11-06, 01:56 PM

I posted the following the other day in the Hanso thread, but it got lost in the shuffle.

(There's a lot of good stuff in there, but I'm starting to think that "Hanso" is too all-encompassing; we need to break it out a little bit. So, I'm glad to see this thread begun)

Anyhoo, here's my collection of dates related to the game so far (with some blast door map throw in for good measure).

Dates in bold, source in italics.

December 7, 1981: H.G. Delegation inspection on Island (Blast Door)

October 28, 1984: “Suspected shut down date” (Blast Door)

1985: AH/MDG Incident on Island (Blast Door)

April 8, 2000: Systemwide failure of Dharmatel Intranet (Blast Door)

June 14, 2000: AH in London (THG.org)
November 12, 2000: AH in Copenhagen (THG.org)
February 23, 2001: AH in Paris (THG.org)
July 12, 2001: AH in Geneva (THG.org)

August 15, 2001: Systemwide failure of Dharmatel Intranet (Blast Door)

September 18, 2001: AH in Rome (THG.org)
October 28, 2001: Solar flare (THG.org)
December 31, 2001: AH in Copenhagen (THG.org)
January 1, 2002: AH in Madrid/last public appearance of AH (according to Persephone) (THG.org)

April 3, 2002: Rev(?) possible location of zoological research facility on Island (Blast Door)

January 6, 2003: Systemwide failure of Dharmatel Intranet (Blast Door)

October 28, 2003: AH “photographed” (THG.org)

September 9, 2005: Letter from Global Welfare(Health) Consortium to CDC slamming Hanso Life Extension Project (THG.org)
September 21, 2005: Joop’s 105th birthday (THG.org)
September 25, 2005: Letter from Global Welfare(Health) Consortium to CDC retracting previous slam (Hanso’s Peter Thompson now heading GWC) (THG.org)

January 5, 2006: Breakthrough in population growth modeling (THG.org)

Have I missed anything? What does it all mean?

Beats the joop out of me! :)

Reiteration

05-11-06, 01:56 PM

Double Post--I'm kind of an idiot.

Penelope

05-13-06, 12:53 PM

tovarbaker

05-13-06, 07:23 PM

Reiteration - nice work!! And welcome to the Game!
Just thought this tidbit should be mentioned as we build our storyline:

Bad Twin was published in 2006 -- some two years after 815 crashed. It says on the book website, and also on the book jacket, that those on the flight were never found....I guess we know the ending of the show - they aren't getting rescued? Because according to my time line, it is still 2004 on the island. We are in mid to late November if my calculations are correct.this may not be the place to delve into this discussion at the moment, but this has bothered me as well. with everything else being so well thought out it seems like this should not be the detail to derail the whole concept, but this does seem to throw some things off a bit, because, at this current schedule they have to do the show for 9 years (in TV time) in order for the survivors to have been on the island for one year, minus 5 days.

PandoraX

05-13-06, 10:59 PM

Reiteration: Excellent list... thanks for putting it together. We can probably continue to use this somewhat as a timeline thread. Might I suggest, including also 1980, the copyright of the orientation film & videotape?

Additionally, if we are to add in other timeline dates from the show, there are a ton... very well put together by Sledgeweb (not suggesting you add all that, since it's a lot, but just as a reference to use as well):

http://lost.cubit.net/timeline.php

The problem, of course, is that what is canon for the show does not always match what is canon from the webmaze; there have been times when the info is contradictory.

Cranky

05-14-06, 01:52 PM

PandoraX

05-14-06, 07:36 PM

You know what? I just realized something.

That photograph supposedly taken in Oct 28 2003 was dated as being taken in 1967 on the old site (before THF got updated this month). Probably should add 1967 as the date, because I think that is the real one. He was supposedly addressing the U.N. at that time in disarmament talks. I thought this date was given by the new site, but it is nowhere on it.

Reiteration

05-15-06, 06:47 PM

Reiteration - nice work!! And welcome to the Game!
Just thought this tidbit should be mentioned as we build our storyline:

Bad Twin was published in 2006 -- some two years after 815 crashed. It says on the book website, and also on the book jacket, that those on the flight were never found....I guess we know the ending of the show - they aren't getting rescued? Because according to my timeline, it is still 2004 on the island. We are in mid to late November if my calculations are correct.

Interesting point. Is the book's publisher (Hyperion?) just throwing stuff out there, or is this really something we should we should take note of?

It would make more sense if the game were set in 2004, but the 2006 date on everything definitely contradicts our established timeframe for the show.

I think, for the sake of trying to reconcile the show with the game, we should "pretend" that they are going on concurrently, rather than a year and a half removed from each other.

On the show, the "current" date would be around mid to late October 2004. Sound about right?

Reiteration

05-15-06, 06:54 PM

Since Alvar's last appearance was in January 1, 2002, and the last picture of him was taken in October 28, 2003, could it be that he's on the island? He's supposedly "missing" or "in hiding" right? Sorry if this has been discussed, I'm not playing the game but am doing my best to keep up. I'm just trying to tie the game to Lost, and this might make since, especially if Alvar is "him." (As a side note, I'm not suggesting Hanso was on Flight 815, he might've arrived on the island any number of ways.)

I'm thinking the same thing. The blast door map made reference to "Magnus Hanso" in connection with the Black Rock. Let me take a moment to go off on a wild speculation.

Magnus was an ancester of Alvar's who discovered the Island and its unique properties, whatever they are. The secret was passed down within the family. Now, Alvar is residing there because whatever the island can do is keeping what must be a really old dude, alive.

That's why Alvar hasn't been seen. He stayed on the island to stay alive (think Rose not wanting to leave so her cancer wouldn't return). Now, the Foundation is covering up his disappearance. Maybe THEY don't even know what happened to him.

Anyway, that could easily make Alvar "him."

/end wild speculation

Penelope

05-15-06, 07:58 PM

I think, for the sake of trying to reconcile the show with the game, we should "pretend" that they are going on concurrently, rather than a year and a half removed from each other.
On the show, the "current" date would be around mid to late October 2004. Sound about right?

umm, but how do you explain the 5-12-06 Press Release on the Hanso site that says: "Don't Believe Bad Twin"??? They are just now, 2 years post its release, getting around to responding to the book? I think we are meant to be in the year 2006. That was why I got so concerned.

Kathaclysm

05-15-06, 08:09 PM

umm, but how do you explain the 5-12-06 Press Release on the Hanso site that says: "Don't Believe Bad Twin"??? They are just now, 2 years post its release, getting around to responding to the book? I think we are meant to be in the year 2006. That was why I got so concerned.
Good point Pen... based on that I'd have to agree that the show is in the past, and the website is in the here-and-now since the press releases have current dates (http://thehansofoundation.org/press/extra/uploads/paris/legalmiller_final.pdf).
Sawyer was reading Gary's original transcript, and based on the found interviews with Gary, which were from Sept. of '04, I wouldn't doubt that, in the story line, Gary's book wasn't released to the public as of the time of the crash. Perhaps the Hanso Foundation protested (lawsuit?) the release of the book initially, and that's why it took so long for the book's actual release, and since the Hanso Foundation lost, and couldn't stop the release of the book, all they can do is release their own counter-spin.

Reiteration

05-15-06, 08:20 PM

2blost

05-15-06, 08:23 PM

Can anyone tell me which episode Sawyer is seen reading the original manuscript of Gary Troup's book??? Also, Gary Troup was supposed to be on the flight??? was he one of the ones that died??? or is he among the losties and we haven't heard about him yet???

The_Island

05-15-06, 08:32 PM

his fate is undecided thus far, but presumed dead...and it was 2 episodes ago when Sawyer was reading the manuscript

bcool1956

05-15-06, 08:35 PM

Thats right the episode where Libby and AnaL were shot.

~G~

05-15-06, 08:39 PM

Thats right the episode where Libby and AnaL were shot.

"Two for the Road"

bcool1956

05-15-06, 09:09 PM

"Two for the Road"
Yes that one . Thank you

Cranky

05-15-06, 09:18 PM

I thought Gary Troup was dead? I heard that he was the man in the pilot episode who got sucked into the engine.

bcool1956

05-15-06, 09:21 PM

I thought Gary Troup was dead? I heard that he was the man in the pilot episode who got sucked into the engine.
That is just speculation.That has never been confirmed.

aggiesean

05-15-06, 09:43 PM

The problem, of course, is that what is canon for the show does not always match what is canon from the webmaze; there have been times when the info is contradictory.

Just for clarification, what times are you referring to, Pandora? I don't remember seeing any proven contradictions yet between the official webmaze and the show itself.

(In case this seems like a threadjack, I wanted to respond here in case we receive webmaze dates and information that correspond to flashback-revealed information from the show, so in that event we know whether we can include show canon in SYINTL's timeline.)

:Cowdance:

Kathaclysm

05-16-06, 03:01 PM

Just for clarification, what times are you referring to, Pandora? I don't remember seeing any proven contradictions yet between the official webmaze and the show itself.

I'm also confused with some of what we've seen that seems to be a contradiction so far. I know that the photo of Alvar was said to be one date on the website, and years earlier in the show. But that isn't really a true contradiction, cuz we kinda figure it's a cover up of some sort.
Also the date of the release of Troup's book is questionable, we know from the dates on their press releases that Hanso is just now protesting it, yet Troup gave interviews about the books back on '04, right before he "went missing." But this also may have some explanation (like perhaps someone else has re-written or edited portions between then and now). These are the 2 things that bother me most right now.

supermodel

05-16-06, 04:21 PM

I am pretty comfortable with the Bad Twin dates. I know nothing about publishing, but I agree that if he just turned in the manuscript prior to the crash, it could easily take a year to get it published. Maybe two is too long; as Troup is a best-selling author, Hyperion might compress that timeline due to consumer demand, to get it to market faster. But then there was the crash, I totally agree with the Hanso/Hyperion coverup idea.

As for the interviews:
we know from the dates on their press releases that Hanso is just now protesting it, yet Troup gave interviews about the books back on '04, right before he "went missing."

Again, Troup is a best-selilng author, so it is natural that his fans would be interested in hearing about his latest book before it is published. IMHO, this is not too different from J.K. Rowling giving interviews about the next Harry Potter book before it is even completed. As to why Hanso didn't comment back in 2004...are we sure that they didn't? Just because it hasn't been shared with us doesn't mean it didn't happen. Or maybe they chose not to comment on an unpublished manuscript they had not yet read.

And then they put him on that plane.:eek:

As far as the year-and-a-half gap in the show vs. ARG timeline, it can be resolved if you are a believer in the wrinkle in time/Montauk experiment type theories. Maybe a day on the island is a month on our timeline.

Total speculation, and I personally could not be satisfied with a straight-up time-travel explanation. But as I become more and more comfortable with the "science" side, I keep coming back around to this.

Kathaclysm

05-16-06, 04:34 PM

As for the interviews:
Again, Troup is a best-selling author, so it is natural that his fans would be interested in hearing about his latest book before it is published. IMHO, this is not too different from J.K. Rowling giving interviews about the next Harry Potter book before it is even completed. Ohh.... that's a really good point... she has the manuscripts for the next books, but they aren't published yet.... Plus we still only have the first 3 parts of the interview with Troup, so I dunno if we'll get any more, or if it'll say anything more about release dates.
As to why Hanso didn't comment back in 2004...are we sure that they didn't? Just because it hasn't been shared with us doesn't mean it didn't happen. Or maybe they chose not to comment on an unpublished manuscript they had not yet read. I agree, and I think I speculated elsewhere that perhaps some kind of behind-the-scenes protest/lawsuit by Hanso could have attributed to the delay.

So, are there any firm contradictions between the show and the book and the websites?

Katie2

05-18-06, 04:13 AM

January 5, 2006: Breakthrough in population growth modeling (THG.org)

Somrthing to do with Sun? I'm compleatly lost (no pun intended) so forgive me if I doing somthing wrong.

Katie2

05-18-06, 04:14 AM

Katie2

05-18-06, 04:19 AM

Interesting point. Is the book's publisher (Hyperion?) just throwing stuff out there, or is this really something we should we should take note of?

It would make more sense if the game were set in 2004, but the 2006 date on everything definitely contradicts our established timeframe for the show.

I think, for the sake of trying to reconcile the show with the game, we should "pretend" that they are going on concurrently, rather than a year and a half removed from each other.

On the show, the "current" date would be around mid to late October 2004. Sound about right?

The writers have said "Everyone assumes the plane crashed in 2004, but we never said that."

salazar_lives

05-18-06, 04:20 AM

They could still skip around in time or go faster, I think it will end with them being found and staying, at least some of them.

i agree. wouldn't it be great if they started a future season that went backwards with island flashbacks only? i.e. a year or two ahead of time, sort of like that movie 'memento'.

Tage

05-18-06, 05:28 AM

The writers have said "Everyone assumes the plane crashed in 2004, but we never said that."

Didn't the Oceanic website say that a plane took off on such-and-such date in 2004 from Sydney to Los Angeles but never reached its destination, and didn't Kate's ticket date from 2004?

Penelope

05-18-06, 06:17 AM

The writers have said "Everyone assumes the plane crashed in 2004, but we never said that."

Yes this is true Katie. However, in terms of the ARG, we know from Gary Troup's book that Flight 815 crashed in Sept 2004. Since time travel has not been confirmed at this point, we appear to have a time line issue here. Gary Troup's book has come out in 2006 -- and the book jacket says no one has been found from the flight.

This would still correlate with what TPTB said -- "crashed IN 2004" could mean -- while taking off in 2004, the plane crashed IN another time. I hope that makes sense. :)

The_Island

05-18-06, 01:17 PM

oceanic_lisa

05-18-06, 02:06 PM

this might be helpful for the story line....

ok havent seen this discussed, but i admit i did not do a search :D

Has anyone noticed that the Peter Thompson signature from the letters Persephone showed us (also the same sig that is in the hmcintyr mail folder in www.letyourcompassguideyou.com (http://www.letyourcompassguideyou.com/)) and the signature of Peter Thompson from the jeep contracts in his mail folder are nothing alike???
Here are side by side comparisons:

http://f5.putfile.com/5/13709091711.jpghttp://f5.putfile.com/5/13709094012.jpg
TI, I noticed and was trying to piece together what might be going on here. Hugh had a copy of Peter's signature (or did Hugh have a copy of his forged version of Peter's signature??) in his inbox. To what end? Is Hugh missing now, and if so, is it due to whatever he tried to do to Peter?

Obviously I don't know the answers, but I think that there is significance here.

Penelope

05-18-06, 02:32 PM

Just a quick thought before I head out....
The two bills that you see (when clicking on the falling stuff after Mr Family Values clip) are from Paris and London. The same two cities as in here - http://thehansofoundation.org/press/extra/uploads/, and mentioned in Alvar's travels (map from Alvar bio thingy).

Hmmmm.....
Truff posted this in ALL-HANSO and I think it also should be documented here. To elaborate, this is an EXCELLENT point. Are you speculating that Hugh may have some connection with Alvar's 'travels', or perhaps orchestrated these 'appearances' in some manner?? Interesting indeed...we should continue to monitor any cities on correspondence for further overlap to Hanso's travel log.

bcool1956

05-18-06, 02:33 PM

Or maybe Peter is missing and Hugh needs his sig.

Reiteration

05-18-06, 03:54 PM

I'm wondering what Persephone's motivation is for revealing this stuff about Hanso. So what is Mittelwerk didn't really go to college and that McIntyre is cheating on his wife. Any company/organization of a big enough size is going to have people with questionable personal lives. So why is it impotant that we know about those of Hanso officials?

On another note, it sure is confusing keeping in mind that the events on the island (time travel theories aside) took place 2 years ago. :)

I would love to see some reports surface in the game regarding the investigation into the crash of flight 815. Hopefully, the game will being to relate a little more to the island as we go through the summer.

Katie2

05-18-06, 04:56 PM

Didn't the Oceanic website say that a plane took off on such-and-such date in 2004 from Sydney to Los Angeles but never reached its destination, and didn't Kate's ticket date from 2004?

Thats just what I heard the writers said.

buckylaserbeam

05-19-06, 01:11 AM

Yes this is true Katie. However, in terms of the ARG, we know from Gary Troup's book that Flight 815 crashed in Sept 2004. Since time travel has not been confirmed at this point, we appear to have a time line issue here. Gary Troup's book has come out in 2006 -- and the book jacket says no one has been found from the flight.

This would still correlate with what TPTB said -- "crashed IN 2004" could mean -- while taking off in 2004, the plane crashed IN another time. I hope that makes sense. :)

so maybe it did crash in another time. how long was jacks jogging buddy on the island for and how much time passed from then til "now"?

but say it did crash before alvars disappearance (2003). maybe they will be found next season, seeing that no ones been looking for them yet.

~G~

05-19-06, 05:52 PM

From thf update to Peter Thompson:

1994: Defended Williamsburg Tobbacco Co. in civil suit. Countersued, sending 40 plaintiffs into bankruptcy.

1998: Defended Globoco Oil in a lawsuit over polluting areas of Florida panhandle; polluted area sees a 75% increase in cancer rates.

2001: attempts to persuade Georgia Courts to ignore protest aginst nuclear power plants.

Penelope

05-19-06, 06:24 PM

So what is the significance of Candle's picture (if it IS him) with Peter Thompson? Are we so sure the executive bio pic is the REAL Peter Thompson? We have seen Candle with an Alias already on the show -- Wickman, could he BE the real Peter Thompson?

PandoraX

05-19-06, 08:01 PM

Transcribed those documents, here's more dates to work with:

1998 Defended Globoco Oil... and successfully made the world safe for chemical polluters and dumpers of carcinogenic industrial waste in the Florida panhandle -- the incidence of cancer in the area has grown by 75%!

=> Image of toxic waste dump in swamp

1994 Defended the Williamsburg Tobacco Company against a class action suit on behalf of cancer victims: set a new precedent for corporate vindictiveness by countersuing and driving 40 plaintiffs into bankruptcy!

=> Image of tobacco field

2001 Was in the process of making sure the citizens of Southern Georgia got their glow-on by bullyragging the local courts into ignoring widespread protests against a nuclear power plant when he was struck by cancer -- looks like Alvar Hanso saved the wrong guy!

=> Image of toxic dump with nuclear power plant stacks in the background

supermodel

05-25-06, 02:37 PM

OK, just dropped by to float my pet theory, which got a good reception in bork last night.

Penelope Widmore = Persephone

WHy?

Penny said she'll wait for Desmond forever. She already found him once. When Desmond asked how, she replied "I have a lot of money."

OK, so her dad will do anything to keep them apart. Let's say Widmore is all up in the dirty mess that is the Hanso Foundation (which is not a stretch, we've seen enough Widmore logos this season.) He sponsors the RTW sailing race, and once Desmond enters, he sets it up so Desmond gets caught in the magnetic anomaly and is brought to the island.

Penny knows what her dad is about, she uses her resources to hire a bunch of (lame) scientists and set them up in Scandinavia or the Actic or wherever. They are lookng for an anolomy similar to the one that trapped Desmond and Flight 815. Last night they "found it."

So yeah, Penny = Persephone and is working against her dad.

Thoughts?

The_Island

05-25-06, 02:50 PM

only it looked like Desmond got to the island via bad weather and not an electromagnetic abnormaly

also I was thinking...planes are made out of aluminum...not metal...so how did that magnet suck 815 in? I guess one can argue that there is enough copper wiring on a plane to suck it in...but yah..just thinking out loud...what were we talking about again? oh yah persephenelope? Yah maybe :)

aggiesean

05-25-06, 03:43 PM

only it looked like Desmond got to the island via bad weather and not an electromagnetic abnormaly

That being said, we do know that Meteorology is one of the foci of the Dharma Initiative, as shown in the "Orientation" film and the "Lockedown" blast door map. There is clear man-made harnessing of the electromagnetism foci in the Swan Hatch...as such, I wouldn't put it past Dharma to look at weather modification as well.

Super does bring up one point about Persephone that has been bothering me: why does she care? Yeah, so Alvar's a no-show, Mittlewerk's a fraud, McIntyre's a playa, Thompson's a jerk, and Peck and Vanderfield are crooks. So? No business is run by angels. Why is Persephone so bent on discrediting the Hanso Foundation?

Back to Desmond's arrival. It looked to me like Kelvin was expecting him. How else do you "expect" someone to be shipwrecked? If it was your doing. If Desmond was brought to the island by Widmore and Hanso, then Penelope would have a clear reason to be angry about this. Possibly enough to aid Persephone or even to be Persephone.

One glaring problem with the Penelope=Persephone theory, however: Persephone, to me, sounds American on the voice clips we have of her, whereas Penelope was from the UK.

:Cowdance:

The_Island

05-25-06, 03:49 PM

One glaring problem with the Penelope=Persephone theory, however: Persephone, to me, sounds American on the voice clips we have of her, whereas Penelope was from the UK.

:Cowdance:

Ah...good point cowdance man.

supermodel

05-25-06, 05:28 PM

Good point regarding the accent. Maybe Penelope doesn't have h4x0r skillz and she has an accomplice doing the dirty work? Maybe she purposely disguised he voice or got someone else to record it so her dad would not recognize her voice.

It's my first theory, I really want to be right! ;)

The_Island

05-25-06, 05:30 PM

It's my first theory, I really want to be right! ;)

wasnt purgatory your first theory?

supermodel

05-25-06, 05:41 PM

Yes, I invented the purgatory theory, FIRST person EVER to say the P word in regard to Lost.

/end threadjack

aggie, you bring up a good point about Persephone's motivation. We figure that out, we get a lot closer to discovering who she is.

And BTW, this is totally unrelated to ARG storyline, but how much magnetic force would it take to cause a human body to fly across the room?

awesome_cupcake

05-25-06, 07:54 PM

i dunno the penelope/persephone theory is a little too obvious for me to buy into.

pilot3033

05-26-06, 01:34 AM

Not to mention that Persehpone hinted that she works for/with Hanso.
As far as 815 falling due to Desmond, I doubt it. I think they lied to us. Rather, we know why the plane crashed in the losties perspective. C'mon...an electro magnet pulls a plane out of the sky, yet all wrekage on the losties beach stays the same when the magnet starts to act up again (even stronger than before)? 815 was brought there for a diffrent reason, and the Fenry lead others had something to do with it.
If anything, the Swan hatch was the sheild for the island. However, Feny et al. did not seem to care so much after the button was not pressed. They reacted as if it had happend before.
Anyway, based in McIntrys think on Kimmel, DHARMA ended in 1987. So either the initative was started up again, or was left in seceret. Although, I seem to remember a few webgame websites saying they still made DHARMA food.
-Matt

Rainflower

05-26-06, 10:21 AM

Did we ever get a positive ID on the girl in the hospital gown from one of the videos Persephone showed us?
Could that be Persephone herself?
In the career listings from thf, it said in order to apply for the job at the Vik Institute you had to be experienced in caring for highly unstabile and highly gifted minds - maybe Persephone is some sort of genius whom the hanso foundation locked up in a mental health facility to experiment on. And now she`s pissed and wants to show the world what THF is up to.

Or going with the Greek mythology - where Persephone is the daughter of Zeus. Zeus is the leader of the gods - maybe she`s Alvar Hanso`s daughter? Assuming Alvar really was trying to do only good things with his foundation, but then Mittlewerk, McIntyre & co showed up and turned good to bad. When Alvar found out and protested he disappeared - and good, old P. is now trying to find him and bring down the others at the same time? Persephone seems much more "out-to-get" the rest of the board members, while with Alvar it got more to do with him not being around.

Sorry, I`m just thinking out loud here :)

supermodel

05-26-06, 03:55 PM

pilot, very good point about the fuselage wreckage just sitting on the beach while the magnetic force wrought (wreaked?) havoc with everything else. Either you are right on and we did not get the real story, or the writers made an error.

I guess we can continue to consider Penelope a suspect only because we don't have any other female characters that fit right now. But we are going to meet more characters over the summer and it'll probably turn out to be someone else. In all likelihood, she is probably not someone from the show.

Assuming Alvar really was trying to do only good things

Rain, allow me to introduce you to the Loyalists Thread (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12473). Also known as "the smack-talk thread."

supermodel

05-27-06, 06:42 AM

I killed this thread...

2fingers

05-27-06, 07:30 AM

Rainflower

05-27-06, 09:05 AM

Rain, allow me to introduce you to the Loyalists Thread (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12473). Also known as "the smack-talk thread."

Hehehe thanks Super. I`ll check it out.

And just so this post isn`t a complete threadjack :) :

2fingers - With the genius part, it was more just a thought following from what it said on the career listings at the Hanso foundation, than based on anything Persephone have said or done. :)
(Not that I could hack into a website no matter how pissed I was at someone. But I guess I could hire someone to do it :D *goes to stalk the RE guys ;)*)

buckylaserbeam

05-27-06, 03:44 PM

pilot, very good point about the fuselage wreckage just sitting on the beach while the magnetic force wrought (wreaked?) havoc with everything else. Either you are right on and we did not get the real story, or the writers made an error.

I guess we can continue to consider Penelope a suspect only because we don't have any other female characters that fit right now. But we are going to meet more characters over the summer and it'll probably turn out to be someone else. In all likelihood, she is probably not someone from the show.

Rain, allow me to introduce you to the Loyalists Thread (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12473). Also known as "the smack-talk thread."

most of the plane would be nonferous metal.

most likely too far away.

Chuck

05-27-06, 08:08 PM

most of the plane would be nonferous metal.

most likely too far away.

But an EMP would take out the electrical systems.

rottenralf

05-28-06, 05:24 AM

But would an EMP break up a plane into three easy, neat pieces, by breaking all the beams that go from front to back in the same spot?

Chuck

05-28-06, 11:15 AM

But would an EMP break up a plane into three easy, neat pieces, by breaking all the beams that go from front to back in the same spot?

Nope, but it's a start. The magnet alone could not have taken down the plane.

pilot3033

05-28-06, 08:11 PM

The plane was offcourse, but I assume it was still at altitude (for a trans-pacific flight anywhere from 33,000 to 43,000ft). How can an EMP, or an electro magnet bring down a plane in three neat chunks from that height, but not drag parts of the wreakage from the beach to the hatch? The distance between the hatch and the beach can't be more than a few miles, the plane was probably further from the hatch. Not to mention, we still don't know what it is that hides the island from the rest of the world, or how 815 was able to get through that sheild. We also don't know how going a compass heading of 325 will let you espace from the island.
The season finally did not not do much to help the Lost mythology, or answer questions. It really just told us about Desmond so we don't get confused in Season 3.

==end threadjack==

Tage

05-29-06, 06:17 AM

pilot3033

05-29-06, 05:12 PM

A plane travelling at sufficient speed can break up due to turbulence. Thats why, for instance, if a large jet liner decides to nosedive, there's a chance the wings may simply tear off (or the space shuttle disaster, for that matter).

Assuming there was sufficient metal in the plane that could be attracted by the magnet, perhaps the plane was being pulled towards the Swan station at incredible speeds, and then simply broke up.

Also, does anyone have a picture of the plane's trajectory? I can't rightly remember where the Tailies crashed, but they broke off first (I believe), which means the rest of the plane had to of travelled across the island before hitting the beach.
Aircraft have a speed called VnE, otherwise known as "Do Not Exceed". If an aircraft travles above this speed, it won't start to break up right away, but any sudden movements due to turbulance/wind/pilot input could damage parts of the aircraft. And, yes, in a dive the wing can tear off. Do ote however, aircraft have been known to pull tough aerobatical moves above this speed. Some of you may remember a FedEx aircraft that was almost hijacked by an employee with a death wish. The aircraft was used as a wepon against the attacker, doing twists and turns that the large aircraft (A DC10) was not desinged to do. That's besides the point though.

From what I recall from the pilot episode, the aircraft was not really in an overspeed, and even if it were the forces at play would not create three nice splits in the aircraft. However, this is all assumed under the physics that we know in our world. In the Lost reality, diffrent forces may be at play, rather physics might not be the same. Thus easily (and cheaply) explaining why certain things react the way they did.
The most likly possibility is that the writers did not think about it that deeply.

As far as the story behind all these clues goes...It seems to have slowed down. Not so much press from Hanso in the last few days, and Persephone seems to have taken a long weekend :)
-Matt

supermodel

05-30-06, 01:58 AM

Matt, now I know why you chose "pilot" as your screenname! ;)

Deni'slost

05-31-06, 03:38 AM

This is just a thought I just had regarding the latest update on thf.org...

I found it funny that Presephone mentioned that they are starting wars "so we don't have to", and in this thread (or somewhere) someone had made a comment about making electromagnetic weapons (I think it might have been on the latest DjDan update).

Perhaps this is the first time they are making a link between the arg and the show, because we all watched what happened on the final episode. I don't know exactly where they're going to be going with this, but it was just something I found interesting and wanted to share with everyone to see what your thoughts were on it. I'm not the best person when it comes to figuring this stuff out by any means.

And for the record, I'm fully aware that the ang is seperate from the tv show...but this definatley made me think.

pilot3033

05-31-06, 05:33 AM

Penelope

05-31-06, 08:03 AM

Okay, earlier I made fun of the way Persephone's voice sounds, per Snakey's comment that it reminded her of a "Valley Girl" accent. Then I started to wonder, perhaps the sound/tone of her voice is a clue to pinpointing the character behind Persephone. What you can deduce from the voice are two things:

1. She may be young -- teen to early twentysomething.
2. She may be from California.
3. Typically this accent is associated with overly commercialized and materialistic individuals.

(PS: For those of you not familiar with the phrase, Valley Girl, PM me. ;) )

PandoraX

06-01-06, 02:08 AM

OK, I wanted to step back from this a little bit and look at the BIG PICTURE behind the maze... this seemed the most appropriate thread to do so in.

Has anyone seen the movie, Cube, and the prequel, Cube Zero? Cube is about a bunch of people who find themselves trapped in an artificial trap, with a series of interconnecting rooms. Some of these rooms have traps which kill them in gruesome ways, some do not; and it turns out that numbers engraved on the hatches reveal a mathematical pattern to which rooms to avoid, and also how to exit the trap. It also turns out that the people were not chosen so "randomly" and that there are deeper interconnections (hope what I said is not overspoilerish for the movie, but wanted to point out connections to the show).

Cube Zero is a movie that came out later, told instead from the perspective of people who work for the company that built the Cube trap (some have said this is a reason why the movie sucked--that it took away some of the intrinsic mystery/suspense of the original). Instead of seeing things from the victim's eyes, you get another point of view, from the outside. To me, the webmaze is sort of like that... giving us insight into the workings of The Hanso Foundation... and Persephone appears to offer us "the big picture". Whereas the 815 survivors sometimes seem more concerned with their everyday life on the island (sometimes, more concerned than fans of the show)... the ARG seems to offer us more of the structure & background history to the story.

truffula

06-01-06, 02:11 AM

To me, the webmaze is sort of like that... giving us insight into the workings of The Hanso Foundation... and Persephone appears to offer us "the big picture". Whereas the 815 survivors sometimes seem more concerned with their everyday life on the island (sometimes, more concerned than fans of the show)... the ARG seems to offer us answers to offer us more of a structure & history to the background of the story.
Very well said!! :D
I couldn't agree more!

Deni'slost

06-01-06, 03:59 AM

Pandora..that is very insightful, I hadn't thought about it that way..I guess I'm too busy trying to connect all of this to the show. I guess the game would be more enjoyable as we delve further into the life at the Hanso foundation.

b0ndsbustybl0nde7

06-04-06, 01:42 AM

Speaking of delving further into the Hanso Foundation. What does everyone make of 2 hospitals found to be harvesting organs and keeping people just above freezing point so they could keep harvesting. Not to mention one previous reporter killed in a car accident for cracking the story and the paper company bought to silence the next article. On the last clue http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e41/truffula/Webmaze%20Pics/wwpdppresshacked1.jpg

It says there opening another hospital in Gambia? and that its there 100th.. So 2 of these hospitals out of 100 were busted for harvesting organs. I wonder how many more out of 98 are doing the same thing. Also with people whited out it makes me think they dont see them as people more like sheep or they arent really people anymore? Any ideas on why they would be harvesting so many organs? My first thought was for the money on the black market but how much more money does the foundation really need. Another thought has me linking it to the missing limbs problem, maybe....

Had to edit because of my spell checker ... sorry for the red font

tovarbaker

06-08-06, 02:17 PM

I'm still not sure what to think as far as the game is concerned. McIntrye on Kimmle made it seem like Hanso was OUTSIDE of the show it's self , and that this game deals in our current reality, not the one created for LOST.
However, it could have been a fluke on Kimmles part.
As far as the starting wars bit...I thought it was sorta lame. Cliche I guess, "OH! Big company pulls strings on the world!!!", not a new story IMO.-Mattforgive me if I am misreading your comments... :-) I think they did that because, they are making it seem real. kind of like TPTB talking about being sued by Hanso for using his name etc.

early on Damon and Carlton talked about the upcoming new Hanso website and mentioned that they would probably mention it once or twice but that once it got up and running they would pretend like they had nothing to do with it. (so as to enhance the experience)

as far as greater over reaching tie-ins to the show I wouldn't strain to hard to find any. isn't the purpose of the webgame to introduce us to some of the greater mythology that was created for the show that really doesn't have place in the show. their point is to enhance our viewing experience of the show with the webgame but, to those fans who don't want to participate in the webgame their experience of the show wont be lessened because of it

goAlvar

06-09-06, 05:20 PM

40,000 BC
Cave paintings of light colored dogs are found near Ceci Est Tout Faux,France. Scrawl around imagery is translated: yellow dog warns us all.1899
A yellow Labrador is born to Black Lab mother in Austrailia. The Porter family,who owned the dog, insists it be burned as an abomination. He is saved by the child of a kindly servant named Lloyd.1903
Lord Dilfer of Trent barely avoids death from an oncoming carriage. He later says he was warned by a friend, though he was accompanied by no one but his loyal yellow Labrador retriever.1938
Vincent 'Wally' Bolé is born but not into greatness. That will be thrust upon him soon enough.1959
Peter Thompson born in Terre Haute, Indiana
The government's secret testing and experimentation on Yellow Labs is leaked to the press by a clerk at the hidden facility in the Yellowstone National Park. He tells reporters he was 'compelled' to reveal the information.1967
Alvar Hanso's address to the UN Security Council1986
24 May (Houston) Jacob Vanderfield was arrested and sentenced to four years for taking bribes from a Chinese ciagrette smuggling syndicate. Served 6 months in a federal country club.1989
Lawrence Peck was sentenced to 8 years for insider trading which he subsidized through a retirement fund for a health care union. Served 18 months in a minimum security facility1991
12 homeless men sleeping beneath scaffolding of a building under construction in New York City's lower east side escaped death just before the scaffolding collapsed. When asked how they managed to get away without injury they told authorities that a yellow dog warned them. All were immediately committed.1994
Peter Thompson defends the Williamsburg Tobacco Company1998
Peter Thompson defends Globoco Oil2000
14 June : Alvar Hanso in London
12 November : Alvar Hanso in Copenhagen2001
After extensive work with yellow labs, Vincent 'Wally' Bolé creates The Retrievers of Truth.
Peter Thompson defends the nuclear power plant in Southern Georgia
01 January : Alvar Hanso in Copenhagen (This after being in Rome)
23 February : Alvar Hanso in Paris
12 July : Alvar Hanso in Geneva
18 September : Alvar Hanso in Roma
28 October : Solar Flare in early morning hours2002
31 December : Alvar Hanso in Madrid (Last public appearance according to Persephone)2003
28 October : Alvar Hanso photographed according to THF.org (in Narvik City Hall)2004
16 August : Christine DeVries (Senior Editor from Walkabout Publishing) congratulates Troup on Bad Twin, and calls him to Sydney.
23 August : Gary Troup replies to DeVries, he'd be delighted to visit Sydney in early September.
22 September : Oceanic Airlines Flight 815 crashes.
16 September : Gary Troup is interviewed by Laird Granger.2005
19 September : Letter from GWC to CDC, about THF (written by Jacques Maillot)
19 September : Letter from GHO (written by Jacques Maillot) to Per Lunquist and Einar Ragnarsson, requesting THF to desist all operations in Zanzibar (old Hanso site)
21 September : Hanso press release : Joop is 105 years old, by Einarsson (old Hanso site)
21 September : "The things that aren't said can be more important than those that are."Dr. Vincent "Wally" Bolé, to the members of the Hanso Foundation.
22 September : "It's not just that they're trying to talk to us, they're also listening... intently."Dr. Vincent "Wally" Bolé, at a conference in Australia.
25 September : Letter from GWC to CDC, about THF (written by Peter Thompson)
4 October : Letter from GHO (written by Jacques Maillot) to Per Lundquist and Einar Ragnarssson about the good work in Zanzibar and thanks for the fund. (old Hanso site)2006
Dr. Vincent "Wally" Bolé launched ROT site to massive praise and overwhelming newsletter requests.
5 January : Breakthrough in population growth modeling
24 February : Fax from DaimlerChrysler to Peter Thompson, confirming the VIP for the 2007 contract year.
10 March: Fax from DaimlerChrysler to Peter Thompson, rescinding the fleet contract due to the events in ????
17-19 March : Peter Thompson in hotel La Dolce Vita, Paris
5 May : THF news release : our site is experiencing a disruption
12 May : THF news release : Don't believe Bad Twin
17 May : Peter Thompson in London
24 May : Hugh McIntyre from THF on Jimmy Kimmel
25 May : Hyperion Press runs an ad in USA Today, defending Bad Twin
26 May : Cape Town Inquisitor article : Hospital Raid.
29 May : Cape Town Inquisitor retracts the article about the hospital raid.I haven't read Bad Twin, so I couldn't add the events in the book to my list. If you find any errors, or want something to be added, please PM me and I will add them. :)

ILoveEko

06-09-06, 05:27 PM

Nice Algo, thanks!

cameronbh206

06-09-06, 05:50 PM

Awesome job, thanks algo

~G~

06-09-06, 05:57 PM

Wow. Nice work, Algo! Can this get added to a first page anywhere?

The_Island

06-09-06, 06:04 PM

BEST timeline EVER

PandoraX

06-10-06, 08:55 PM

goAlvar: Great timeline! I think I'd just urge caution when using ROT as "canon" for the webmaze, because a lot of indications are that the homepage, Dr. Bole, and the timeline are all fictional and a front for the message board backsite (especially things like "Ceci est tout faux", seem to point that a lot of the timeline stuff is an inside joke by the Verizon techs). I don't think it hurts to include them though... nice job.

(PS: I think the same for Troup's book, I don't think we should include any timeline from that; even Troup himself will tell you it is fiction "loosely based" on 'real' LOST facts)

supermodel

06-12-06, 08:53 PM

Maybe you can include the RoT and Bad Twin dates in another color, to mark them as "questionable?"

PandoraX

06-13-06, 04:04 PM

OK, so with the new Heuristics clue....

Was DHARMA running experiments to try and condition the 815 survivor group to make better decisions through modeling behaviors?

Penelope

06-13-06, 07:29 PM

Courtesy of ILE & Pan -
http://quatreisevil.free.fr/persephonemaybe.JPG

This woman may be significant to the story. She appears to be a 1920s - 1940s woman based on hairstyle. Hanso's wife?

eta: Also Hoo Goo Choi is a Korean Minister - maybe we will get a Paik connection from him????

rottenralf

06-13-06, 11:28 PM

I'm having a hard time seeing the women in the photo, maybe just a partial outline. Could it relate to this person?

http://www.onentofl.com/images/earhart_1_.jpg
small but the best fit from what I can see.
http://www.onentofl.com/images/earhart_1_.jpeghttp://www.onentofl.com/images/aa_earhart_learns_2_m_1_.jpg
http://www.onentofl.com/images/amelia_1_.jpeg

Naka

06-14-06, 12:00 AM

Rott if you check the RE thread they extracted the exact picture. It is still not completely viewable, but we are pretty sure its actually Mittlewerk.

rottenralf

06-14-06, 12:20 AM

Naka - I am way behind there, thanks for the "heads up". I wonder how he looks in a 1920's womens hairstyle?

Rainflower

06-14-06, 12:21 AM

Great work on the timeline, Algo :D

~G~

06-14-06, 12:28 AM

I'll look for another cap, Ralf. Now that you put Ms. Earhardt there, I wonder...I know RE got the pic behind, but there is still a definite face ther. Her big eyes are almost matching what I see...

ETA: Alien Grey? Reverse Engineering? Robert Lazaar-a scientisr "drafted" to work at Area 51, claims to have evidence of reverse engineering. Alien craft supposedly use microwaves to fold gravitational fields, as a means of propulsion...I know, I know, far fetched, and most likely nothing, but it fits the conspiraspy nature...

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i21/lametterey/mfi20.png

PandoraX

06-14-06, 12:48 AM

Psst, guys, I think the guy behind the radio tower was already found by Penelope in RE. :)
http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18646&page=64

~G~

06-14-06, 12:52 AM

Psst, guys, I think the guy behind the radio tower was already found by Penelope in RE. :)
http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18646&page=64

Yep, we know. I was just showing this other figure.

PandoraX

06-14-06, 12:53 AM

Oh, I see what you're saying. Another pic aside from Mittelwerk?

~G~

06-14-06, 12:58 AM

Oh, I see what you're saying. Another pic aside from Mittelwerk?

Yes. The pic above is right after the flash; that's where they extracted the RE pic. There seems to be a female face, the one circled in yellow.

Zamboni

06-15-06, 06:01 PM

truffula

06-15-06, 06:37 PM

I have built an elaborate theory based off of all of the webgame information.

It might help to build the "story behind the clues", so to speak.

http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21941

Thank you, Namaste, good luck.
It might help? You think? :D
That's one heck of a good theory you have there. I'll try to comment in that thread when I have more time to think.
But me likee :D
Good job!

Peace,
Truff

sexy baby mama

06-15-06, 06:38 PM

the theory rocks, Zamboni. it is the best i've read.

duality

06-15-06, 06:45 PM

One thing I am wondering, though, is whether DHARMA will stand for the same thing in the show as what it stands for in the ARG. I'm not totally convinced that this has to be the case.

aggiesean

06-15-06, 08:30 PM

One thing I am wondering, though, is whether DHARMA will stand for the same thing in the show as what it stands for in the ARG. I'm not totally convinced that this has to be the case.

If, as I am currently thinking, the show is meant in the ARG world to be "fictional non-fiction" based on the "real-life" ARG, they'd keep the same acronym. Otherwise it'd be like a movie about NASA where it stood for "National Aquatics Supremacy Association" or something; something that'd work in like a Mel Brooks or Leslie Nielsen movie as a farce, but LOST is clearly not meant to be farce.

:Cowdance:

Zamboni

06-15-06, 08:41 PM

National Aquatics Supremacy Association? I think you just figured out the underwater hatch!

Tee hee.

~G~

06-15-06, 11:19 PM

Zamboni...my hat is off to you. Nice work. Please, come back down anytime!

Zamboni

06-16-06, 04:28 PM

Heuristics theory has been updated (look on page 4) taking into account info from the latest DJ Dan podcast.

This is really starting to become a sort of "Grand Unifying Theory" of LOST.

3-Putt

06-20-06, 07:54 PM

My previous post (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=753621&postcount=167)in the ARG complaints thread has got me to thinking of a potential timeline of events:

Within the ARG universe (you know, where Hanso is real and Damon Lindelof is real, but LOST is just a TV show) ----

In 1998 (let's say), a person (and their child) escapes a Hanso-controlled island where there are strange goings-on.

This person, racked with guilt regarding the events there, decides to expose Hanso and their evil-doings.

For reasons unknown, this person ends up coming to Lindelof and Abrams with this information. (He has no proof, so he must choose this method, let's say.)

Abrams and Lindelof get on board and the show is launched and contains just enough truth to continually pressure THF into cracking a little bit here and there under the pressure.

The notoriety of the show brings out people like Persephone (Rachel), DSLerator, and us (!) to help bring down the bad guys.

(You see, "I want to believe". :) )

ETA: Come to think of it, Rachel's long-lost father might just be... Damon Lindelof. :)

aggiesean

06-20-06, 07:56 PM

My previous post (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=753621&postcount=167)in the ARG complaints thread has got me to thinking of a potential timeline of events:

Within the ARG universe (you know, where Hanso is real and Damon Lindelof is real, but LOST is just a TV show) ----

In 1998 (let's say), a person (and their child) escapes a Hanso-controlled island where there are strange goings-on.

This person, racked with guilt regarding the events there, decides to expose Hanso and their evil-doings.

For reasons unknown, this person ends up coming to Lindelof and Abrams with this information. (He has no proof, so he must choose this method, let's say.)

Abrams and Lindelof get on board and the show is launched and contains just enough truth to continually pressure THF into cracking a little bit here and there under the pressure.

The notoriety of the show brings out people like Persephone (Rachel), DSLerator, and us (!) to help bring down the bad guys.

(You see, "I want to believe". :) )

I always figured something like this was what was gonna be revealed during ComicCon, when, according to Damon and Carlton in their podcast (after the ARG started, while "in game"), they would make a statement regarding the Hanso Foundation.

:Cowdance:

rottenralf

06-20-06, 08:02 PM

3Putt - I look at as Damon and Carlton were just doing a legal sidestep to avoid a lawsuit by Dharma by calling the show "fiction". After all, in the same sentence they were calling the show fiction, they were also calling this Dharma/Hanso organization as "real". Hugh calling it fiction was just him ranting and tearing down anything he sees as a threat. the Lost TV show is as real a Gary Troup, which Hugh considered a "real" person. From my viewpoint everyone has played it from a TINAG perspective.

3-Putt

06-20-06, 08:05 PM

Hm. Very interesting, Aggie. You know what we need is a live podcast from ComiCon. :) (or at least a recorded one.)

ETA: Ralf, I guess I am just now getting up to speed with you. Thanks.

The question is "how much of the events in the show can be considered something that we can then apply ARG items to", if that sentence makes any sense.

3-Putt

06-20-06, 08:16 PM

Penelope

06-20-06, 09:21 PM

Sorry for the double-post.

If Aggie is correct, here is what could happen at ComiCon.

Lindelof and Cuse are speaking in front of a packed room:

Lindelof: "Ladies and gentlemen, I would like to introduce to you the real-life people that the characters Michael and Walt were based upon."

[out walks a man and his son]

Carlton Cuse: "This is Frank Richards and his son Milt. They have an incredible story to tell you. It is going to seem very familiar..."

.....

IMHO, this would make those of us who cannot properly wrap our brain around the current ARG versus Lost the TV show dynamic very pleased!!!
Excellent thoughts Aggie & 3-Putt! TPTB -- hint hint: this is a good idea!! That's my fiction writer two cents..... ;)

And maybe Rachel could be connected to one of the people that was 'really' on the island -- who is now being portrayed in the fictional TV show Lost.... :D

~G~

06-21-06, 04:37 AM

lostgal69

06-21-06, 04:38 AM

I think Les is going to the Comic Con, so maybe he can keep us updated!!

duality

07-06-06, 12:59 PM

Looks like Jonah Adkins had a lot of time on his hands and put together an amazing (and huge) map containing LOST show and Experience information.

I have rehosted and resized here, but it is still 2.2 MB

http://www.thelostexperience.info/lost.jpg

The original huge pic is here

http://mapgallery.esri.com/2006/414/85121816138512.jpg

Vitriol

07-06-06, 07:24 PM

http://go.fark.com/cgi/fark/go.pl?IDLink=2155435&location=http%3A%2F%2Fmapgallery.esri.com%2F2006%2 F414%2F85121816138512.jpg

I apologize if this has been posted before, I looked to no avail. Feel free to merge if necessary.

THIS LINK IS NOT SAFE FOR DIAL-UP!!!

I_Knocked_Up_Sun

07-06-06, 07:38 PM

I've already spotted two errors. First, the Santa Rosa asylum is placed on the map in the City of Santa Rosa. Oops. It's pretty clear that the facility is local to both Hurley and Locke, who are Southern Californians. The City of Santa Rosa is in Northern California, about an hour north of San Francisco. Public mental health facilities here in California are run by the State, not incorporated cities. Thus it's a lead pipe cinch that the Santa Rosa asylum in LOST is a private Catholic hospital not located in Santa Rosa, California. (Although if it were, that might make for an eerie connection between Locke, Hurley, Luther Burbank, Charlie Brown, and the rest of the Peanuts gang.)

Second error: Santa Barbara is pinpointed as being right below Santa Rosa, rather than a tad northwest of L.A., where it actually is.

Geography class dismissed.

Vitriol

07-06-06, 07:40 PM

I didn't notice those errors, but the errors you mentioned are pretty trivial. Now, if someone can spot the HUGE couple of errors I found, you can have a cookie.

NeillT006

07-06-06, 08:25 PM

I didn't notice those errors, but the errors you mentioned are pretty trivial. Now, if someone can spot the HUGE couple of errors I found, you can have a cookie.

I stopped looking at it after the third or fourth horrendous typo (although I am betting "typo" is being kind).

N.

Lawboy

07-06-06, 08:35 PM

First off, the dude has the island in the wrong place. Just a guess on his part, really.

Second, I always wanted to go to the Italian Rivera. MMM, the Rivera. Must be nice this time of year on the Rivera. Oh wait, did he mean Geraldo Riviera??? Just kidding.

Hodgepodge

07-06-06, 10:31 PM

AshleyMonday, I think it looks great! But as you mention highly graphical. You do mention a few characters from the webmaze game. If I hadn't just read the tutorial (thanks Truffula and the gang), I wouldn't have known who they were. Also wondering for that same reason, whether you should've added the "WMT" label to the post?

HELL of a lot of work! My compliments. :Cheers:

fustercluck

07-07-06, 12:46 AM

It seems to me that the cable cannot possibly be where that map shows it is.

Dagolu

07-07-06, 12:51 AM

I've got dial up and it's loading fine. btw whats the button to show a scaled down version of it to fit the entire screen

Without Dane

07-07-06, 12:56 AM

Maybe breaking it into a multi-page document will make it more easily accessible. Its more than a little annoying to navigate.

rvturnage

07-07-06, 01:36 AM

Budman

07-07-06, 02:27 AM

The flight path for Flight815 is incorrect as well.

As available in FAA documents online, the flight path would head toward Hawaii, which would actually have it fly likely north east of Fiji.

Budman

07-07-06, 02:29 AM

I've got dial up and it's loading fine. btw whats the button to show a scaled down version of it to fit the entire screen

That's part of IE.

John

07-07-06, 06:03 AM

This thread is based on Webmaze material and therefore belongs in that forum.

Moving.

twilightsun

07-07-06, 05:21 PM

This is too large to be useful. I agree with Without Dane. I'd love to take a look at this in separate pieces. My computer doesn't appreciate the scrolling, and I get lag when doing so.

Vitriol

07-07-06, 05:58 PM

Vitriol

07-07-06, 06:01 PM

yes, hodgepodge...this definately needs WMZ spoiler tags in the title if it stays here. Can you edit the title, or move it to the Lost Experience forum..although it's been posted there a few times already.

rvt

Can you give me a link to where its been posted in the webmaze? I couldn't find this particular map in that forum. You may have a better eye than I.

snakey

07-07-06, 07:35 PM

Thanks Duality, I saw it when it was posted at speakers blog, I couldnt believe what a huge undertaking he accomplished. I am a fan but in comparison I'm a littleittybitty one.

truffula

07-07-06, 09:11 PM

Hey Ashley :)
We're currently discussing this wonderful MAP in the BUILDING THE STORYLINE BEHIND THE CLUES thread in the ARG subforum (starting HERE (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=790387&postcount=112)), it just popped up in the discussion so perhaps I'll merge this thread with that one to help keep the discussion going.

And yeah, that diagram ROCKS!! :D

Peace,
Truff

duality

07-08-06, 12:48 AM

Because of the thread merge and some new viewers I wanted to repost my rehosted and resized link to the map:

http://www.thelostexperience.info/lost.jpg (http://www.thelostexperience.info/lost.jpg)

It's a lot smaller to download (and on a server with a faster connection I think) than the original, and you can still read everything.

duality

see you in the next life

08-03-06, 09:10 PM

LAN..................

I am referring to 2 different quotes from Jensen at EW.

In the first, he claims the Sri Lanka stuff from Rachel Blake will be "must-know" info FOR ALL LOST FANS, NOT JUST THOSE PLAYING THE GAME.

The other quote (paraphrased) is basically this: "5 phases to the ARG and the ARG will provide a nice tie-in to Season 3."

Jensen has done a series of articles about the ARG and this comment was in one of those.

I was just requesting speculation as to how the tie-in would take place if the show is currently occurring in November 2004 and the ARG is happening in real-time summer 2006.

Morover, how can the tie-in take place if the events of the ARG are supposedly REAL in the real world and the show and its characters are fiction (except for the fact that the crash of Flight 815 and death of Gary Troup are real and provide the basis for the fictional account of plane crash survivors on Flight 815).

How incredibly convoluted this all is.

Smartypants

08-03-06, 09:21 PM

I think this is the thread I have been looking for. I don't have time to read all the posts right now, but I'm bookmarking it for when I do. Thanks, you guys, for working so hard on all this stuff!! So lazy people like me can just read it. :)

Seriously, thanks. What a great group!

LAN

08-03-06, 09:25 PM

LAN..................

In the first, he claims the Sri Lanka stuff from Rachel Blake will be "must-know" info FOR ALL LOST FANS, NOT JUST THOSE PLAYING THE GAME.

The other quote (paraphrased) is basically this: "5 phases to the ARG and the ARG will provide a nice tie-in to Season 3."

I was just requesting speculation as to how the tie-in would take place if the show is currently occurring in November 2004 and the ARG is happening in real-time summer 2006.

Morover, how can the tie-in take place if the events of the ARG are supposedly REAL in the real world and the show and its characters are fiction (except for the fact that the crash of Flight 815 and death of Gary Troup are real and provide the basis for the fictional account of plane crash survivors on Flight 815).

How incredibly convoluted this all is.

OK, bullet points possibilities as answers, since a coherent theory covering it all would be impossible

possibilities:
-The must know information we get from the Sri Lanka video will be the final reveal, the "chala" of TLE. I think they have one more big answer in store for us. However, it is possible that it will be like the reveals we have already seen and deal with mysteries, but innocuous ones, like the DHARMA acronym and the numbers/Valenzetti equation connection.

-Maybe the time difference will truly have to do with Lost being just a TV show IN the ARG world. In that case, a "real company", THF could be portrayed, accurately or inaccurately, in basically any time period the authors wanted.

-Or, maybe the events on the island did occur in 2004, meanwhile the viewing audience is watching these events in 2006. Meanwhile, also in 2006, all the events we have seen in TLE are occurring as we watch them.

-This could be the tie in to season 3. Maybe something that happens in TLE that is occurring in 2006, will simply tell us something about THF that we didnt know about. Then we can apply this knowledge as we watch season 3. For instance...we learned about the numbers/Valenzetti equation in 2006. However, it will only be by watching the events that occurred in 2004 that we will be able to put more of the puzzle together. In this case, TPTB can tell us events that happen in the future (from the point of view of the Losties, 2006 is the future) that gives us background information, without giving away the story about what happens in 2006.

Do you ever feel like you are just writing things that a)dont make sense or b)really arent saying anything?

see you in the next life

08-03-06, 09:30 PM

Do you ever feel like you are just writing things that a)dont make sense or b)really arent saying anything?__________________

Yes, every single time I log onto losttv-forum.com I get that feeling.

People in the real real world like my wife think I am I N S A N E.

Sometimes I agree with her.

Here is another question:

In the ARG, has it ever been metioned when Gary Troup died in the plane crash. The Gary Troup website should be cnosidered part of the ARG, right?

I can't believe I am having to ask that question.

see you in the next life

08-03-06, 09:43 PM

LostEmissary

08-04-06, 04:34 AM

In the ARG, it basically comes down to the idea that the LOST creators have stumbled upon a lot of secrets of what the DHARMA initiative was all about, including apparently discovering the actual secret orientation films (since the music on the show during the orientation films is the same as the music we've heard on the Hanso Exposed video segments). This leads me to believe that we should treat the show LOST as a "based on a true story" tale in the ARG universe, while the Hanso Foundation would have you believe it's all made up.

Roy

08-07-06, 02:17 PM

I've been lurking and playing in the shadows for quite a while. Let me start by saying that everyone here is awesome! I would never have the time or resources to find all of the clues, film clips, and film segments.

Here is my theory that ties the timelines together and ties the ARG to the show. In 2004, Michael and Walt (or a father and son like them) left the island on a boat and returned to sell their story to some writers at ABC who embellished it and made it into a TV show. Shortly after that, a massive electromagnetic pulse generated in the pearl station caused the island to lurch forward in time almost two years. At the end of S2, Penny and her Portugese friends are in the present day waiting for the island to re-appear. They are working separately from the Hanso Foundation, and could be setting up for a showdown in a future season. Mittlewerk's new "others" have just completed their training and will be sent to the island to rebuild the hatches and relaunch the DHARMA initiative. Telling people on the island what has happened in the real world could have a negative impact on the phsychological experiments currently being carried out on them, so Mittlewerk and his cronies have devised an elaborate lie to keep up the current pretense.

chaz

08-07-06, 02:31 PM

I've been lurking and playing in the shadows for quite a while. Let me start by saying that everyone here is awesome! I would never have the time or resources to find all of the clues, film clips, and film segments.

Here is my theory that ties the timelines together and ties the ARG to the show. In 2004, Michael and Walt (or a father and son like them) left the island on a boat and returned to sell their story to some writers at ABC who embellished it and made it into a TV show. Shortly after that, a massive electromagnetic pulse generated in the pearl station caused the island to lurch forward in time almost two years. At the end of S2, Penny and her Portugese friends are in the present day waiting for the island to re-appear. They are working separately from the Hanso Foundation, and could be setting up for a showdown in a future season. Mittlewerk's new "others" have just completed their training and will be sent to the island to rebuild the hatches and relaunch the DHARMA initiative. Telling people on the island what has happened in the real world could have a negative impact on the phychological experiments currently being carried out on them, so Mittlewerk and his cronies have devised an elaborate lie to keep up the current pretense.

Not bad Roy. I like the part where Michael sells his story to ABC. Will we see the "real Michael & Walt"?

Roy

08-07-06, 02:41 PM

Not bad Roy. I like the part where Michael sells his story to ABC. Will we see the "real Michael & Walt"?

Perhaps we already have. Maybe real Michael is the image of the black man that Persephone hid in some of her hacks from Act 1. Or maybe he'll show up in next summer's ARG.

Rocky Raccoon

08-07-06, 08:55 PM

That guy's a doctor from Getty Images though...

Zamboni

08-07-06, 09:51 PM

Risky

08-08-06, 09:03 AM

That guy's a doctor from Getty Images though...
Who are you referring to? How can you be a doctor for a photography agency?

LAN

08-08-06, 12:18 PM

You've never seen a doctored photograph Risky?

Rocco was talking about the black doctor that was on the Hanso site, and also hidden behind the image of Joop. He is saying he doesnt think he will show up again because they didnt procure the actor himself for this job, they simply pulled a stock photo of him from Getty.

Roy

08-08-06, 01:07 PM

Great ideas...except for the fact that Michael left AFTER the swan was blown, which would mean that if the island lurched in time WHEN the hatch was blown, Michael wouldn't arrive until well AFTER the start of the show.
Whoops! Good point Zamboni. Michael also left after the series started in 2004 (just to poke another hole in my own theory).

That guy's a doctor from Getty Images though...
Mittlewerk was a Getty image too, and they managed to get him to "act" in the ARG. I wouldn't be that surprised if they managed to get other models to show up if needed.

rvturnage

08-08-06, 02:30 PM

Whoops! Good point Zamboni. Michael also left after the series started in 2004 (just to poke another hole in my own theory).

Mittlewerk was a Getty image too, and they managed to get him to "act" in the ARG. I wouldn't be that surprised if they managed to get other models to show up if needed.

No, Mittlewerk was an actor they took a photo of, if I remember correctly. i don't think he was ever found in Getty...although they did have McIntyre as a photo from Getty...then hired a totally different actor to portray him on Kimmel...not even the same age...so I dont' think TPTB are too concerned about the doc being a photo from Getty :)

Risky

08-08-06, 02:45 PM

Lol sorry your use of 'doctor' totally threw me.

see you in the next life

08-09-06, 02:04 AM

On the show, who ate one of the candy bars....that we know of?

Was it Hurley or Kate?

and when?

truffula

08-09-06, 02:09 AM

On the show, who ate one of the candy bars....that we know of?

Was it Hurley or Kate?

and when?
Good question :)
It was Kate for sure....when Desmond locked her in the pantry.....I won't forget that scene anytime soon ;)
Hurley, it may have been the dream from the intro of EHH, so I cant say for sure....

ETA - and Rose pocketed one for Bernard....:p

Lavenda

08-09-06, 02:13 AM

actually, Hurley may have eaten one too...

in "The Whole Truth" when he comes across Sun in the "jungle" when she is about to do the pregnancy test

truffula

08-09-06, 02:22 AM

actually, Hurley may have eaten one too...

in "The Whole Truth" when he comes across Sun in the "jungle" when she is about to do the pregnancy test
I believe you're right about that :)

http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/3920/hurleyandapollobarei8.jpg

And thank you, Lavenda, for making my job easier and deleting your double post and merging it yourself ;)

aggiesean

08-09-06, 02:23 AM

Any chance we can move this conversation to the Building Storyline thread? It's really not hansoexposed related.

:Cowdance:

truffula

08-09-06, 02:27 AM

Any chance we can move this conversation to the Building Storyline thread? It's really not hansoexposed related.

:Cowdance:
Brilliant idea, Master Aggie :)
Moving now.

HansoLow

08-09-06, 04:46 AM

see you in the next life

08-09-06, 11:17 AM

So, among those who have eaten the Apollo Candy Bars,

who has had psychtropic experiences?

see you in the next life

08-09-06, 11:19 AM

From Wikipedia:

Psychotropic Drugs

Medical and other drug uses

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/3a/Peyote.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Peyote.jpg) Article 32 makes an exception for peyote (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peyote) and other "plants growing wild which contain psychotropic substances from among those in Schedule I and which are traditionally used by certain small, clearly determined groups in magical or religious rites".

Like the Single Convention, the Convention on Psychotropic Substances recognizes scientific and medical use of psychoactive drugs, while banning other uses. Article 7 (http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Convention_on_Psychotropic_Substances#Article_7:_S PECIAL_PROVISIONS_REGARDING_SUBSTANCES_IN_SCHEDULE _1) provides that, in respect of Schedule I substances, the Parties shall "[p]rohibit all use except for scientific and very limited medical purposes by duly authorized persons, in medical or scientific establishments which are directly under the control of their Governments or specifically approved by them".
In this sense, the U.S. Controlled Substances Act (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controlled_Substances_Act) is stricter than the Convention requires. Both have a tightly restricted category of drugs called Schedule I, but the Act prohibits medical use of Schedule I substances, while the Convention allows limited medical use of all substances.
Article 32 (http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Convention_on_Psychotropic_Substances#Article_32:_ RESERVATIONS) allows an exemption for peyote (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peyote) and other "plants growing wild which contain psychotropic substances from among those in Schedule I and which are traditionally used by certain small, clearly determined groups in magical or religious rites". However, this provision can only be invoked if a Party makes a reservation at the time of signature, ratification or accession. The U.S. Government, in O Centro Espirita Beneficiente Uniao do Vegetal v. Reno, argued that this is an extremely limited exemption. That case involved a seizure by U.S. Customs and Border Protection (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Customs_and_Border_Protection) of several drums of DMT (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethyltryptamine)-containing liquid derived from ayahuasca (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayahuasca). Plaintiffs sued to have the drugs returned to them, claiming that they used it as a central part of their religion.[21] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_on_Psychotropic_Substances#_note-17)
[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Convention_on_Psychotropic_Substan ces&action=edit&section=12)]

Organic plants

The Commentary on the Convention on Psychotropic Substances notes that while many plant-derived chemicals are controlled by the treaty, the plants themselves are not:[22] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_on_Psychotropic_Substances#_note-18)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d0/Shrooms.jpeg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Shrooms.jpeg) Psilocybin mushrooms are not controlled by the Convention, but the drugs contained in them are.

The term "synthetic" appears to refer to a psychotropic substance manufactured by a process of full chemical synthesis. One may also assume that the authors of the Vienna Convention intended to apply the term "natural material" to parts of a plant which constitute a psychotropic substance, and the term "natural psychotropic substance" to a substance obtained directly from a plant by some process of manufacturing which was relatively simple, and in any event much simpler than a process of full chemical synthesis. (...) Cultivation of plants for the purpose of obtaining psychotropic substances or raw materials for the manufacture of such substances is not "manufacture" in the sense of Article 1 (http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Convention_on_Psychotropic_Substances#Article_1:_U SE_OF_TERMS), paragraph (i). Many provisions of the Vienna Convention governing psychotropic substances would be unsuitable for application to cultivation. The harvesting of psychotropic substances, i.e. separation of such substances from the plants from which they are obtained, is "manufacture". (...) The cultivation of plants from which psychotropic substances are obtained is not controlled by the Vienna Convention. (...) Neither the crown (fruit, mescal button) of the Peyote (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peyote) cactus nor the roots of the plant Mimosa hostilis nor Psilocybe mushrooms themselves are included in Schedule 1, but only their respective principles, mescaline (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mescaline), DMT (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethyltryptamine) and psilocine, psilotsin. Mexico (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexico), in particular, argued that "production" of psychotropic drugs should not apply to wild-growing plants such as peyote (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peyote) cacti or psilocybin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psilocybin) mushrooms. The Bulletin on Narcotics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulletin_on_Narcotics) noted that "Mexico could not undertake to eradicate or destroy these plants".[11] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_on_Psychotropic_Substances#_note-Unodc.org-Report2) Compared to the Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Convention_on_Narcotic_Drugs) (which calls for "uprooting of all coca bushes which grow wild" and governmental licensing, purchasing, and wholesaling of licit opium, coca, and cannabis crops), the Convention on Psychotropic Substances devotes few words to the subject of psychoactive plants.
On July 2 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_2), 1987 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1987), the United States Assistant Secretary of Health recommended that the Drug Enforcement Administration (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_Enforcement_Administration) initiate scheduling action under the Controlled Substances Act (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controlled_Substances_Act) in order to implement restrictions required by cathinone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathinone)'s Schedule I status under the Convention. The 1993 DEA rule placing cathinone in the CSA's Schedule I noted that it was effectively also banning khat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khat):[23] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_on_Psychotropic_Substances#_note-19)
Cathinone is the major psychoactive component of the plant Catha edulis (khat). The young leaves of khat are chewed for a stimulant effect. Enactment of this rule results in the placement of any material which contains cathinone into Schedule I.

sexy baby mama

08-09-06, 01:51 PM

Actually, the Apollo Bar dates back to the very first episode. Boone offers one to Shannon, but she refuses it because she insists that they will be rescued soon:

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n160/hansolow/apollo-boone.jpg

HansoLow - I never realized that the candy bar was an Apollo bar! But your screen cap convinces me! I always thought that the first time we saw the Apollo bars were in the hatch's pantry. Wow! Where on earth do you think he got that? If it was on the plane - why??? Weird, weird. If it was on the plane, that may mean that Oceanic is associated with the Hanso Foundation, since that candy can't be found in stores.....

Thanks for the cap!

littlelabrynth

08-09-06, 02:21 PM

Actually, the Apollo Bar dates back to the very first episode. Boone offers one to Shannon, but she refuses it because she insists that they will be rescued soon

Wow.....
HansoLow, have you ever thought about posting this in the What We Missed In the Pilot (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15325) thread. There is no proof that we ever did miss anything, but this would be a great addition.

ETA: I went digging...it's been noticed before. Sorry. :dunce:

sexy baby mama

08-09-06, 02:30 PM

Wow.....
HansoLow, have you ever thought about posting this in the What We Missed In the Pilot (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15325) thread. There is no proof that we ever did miss anything, but this would be a great addition.
Lab - THANK YOU! I have been searching for that thread ever since I read that post! (with credit to whom credit is due, of course).

Edited: I copied HansoLow's post into that thread (I hope you don't mind! - I gave you credit!)

LAN

08-09-06, 03:26 PM

Now this is what we are talking about! Maybe it is just me, but this seems like the biggest reveal in a long time, since the implications could be profound.

So, Boone, Kate and Hurley have all eaten the candy bars.
Boone---had the vision of Shannon dying, which everyone attributed to the salve Locke put on his head.

Kate---The closest thing to a vision would be her seeing the horse right? But Sawyer saw that too.

Hurley---Visions of Dave.....and his lucid drams about the hatch.

The fact that Boone had one definitely points to either 1)Apollo bars were on the plane and therefore Oceanic and Hanso are linked. or 2)Someone on the island planted them among the survivors. Most likely Ethan. ANy other possibilities?

Richardstone

08-09-06, 03:30 PM

Boone could've got that chocolate at the airport, do they give out candy bars on flights?

Do we know that Apollo Candy is'nt available in stores, is it exclusively the confection of THF?

Lawboy

08-09-06, 03:30 PM

Anyone notice if Claire ever ate one? I know Hurley basically threw a big bash and passed out all the food(minus his personal stash and what was left in the hatch). So, many people could have gotten their hands on one. Plus, I am sure that they were included in the food drop which was scavenged by all. So most, if not all, could have eaten one.

truffula

08-09-06, 03:32 PM

1)Apollo bars were on the plane and therefore Oceanic and Hanso are linked
I was able to get a definitive answer about this (well close enough to this) from the man himself, JAVI.
A few months ago I was priveleged to get to be a part of the comicsreview chat session with Javi, and one of the questions I asked was "Are Dharma and Oceanic connected?" He answered "no they are not".
Now, I said "Dharma" and not "Hanso" but I look at the two groups (Hanso/Dharma) as the same so I'm not lookin too deep into an oceanic connection. But the fact that there were Apollo bars on the plane, along with the (how the hell did this get on the plane to begin with) Widmore Labs pregnancy test, make sme suspicious nonetheless....

Richardstone

08-09-06, 03:36 PM

I was able to get a definitive answer about this (well close enough to this) from the man himself, JAVI.
A few months ago I was priveleged to get to be a part of the comicsreview chat session with Javi, and one of the questions I asked was "Are Dharma and Oceanic connected?" He answered "no they are not".
Now, I said "Dharma" and not "Hanso" but I look at the two groups (Hanso/Dharma as the same) so I'm not lookin too deep into an oceanic connection. But the fact that there were Apollo bars on the plane, along with the (how the hell did this get on the plane to begin with) Widmore Labs pregnancy test, make sme suspicious nonetheless....

I'm calling the pregnancy test as belonging to Cindy Chandler...

That's good to know Truffula (the DHARMA/Oceanic thing, do you have a link for that?), but it reminds me of my all time favourite TPTB quote...

Lost-TV: The Black Rock. Is the ship the Black Rock or is it a red herring for another Black Rock?

Damon: That’s the Black Rock.

Lost-TV: Ok, mo more Black Rock.

Damon: Even when we answer mysteries people say, “ But…but..”

Bryan: There could be the blacker rock.

I think we can assume that at least one Apollo bar was on the plane, but I think it's possible Boone was the one who brought it on...

LAN

08-09-06, 03:39 PM

/threadjack

Get these &*#%$&!* Apollo bars off my &*#%$&!* plane

/end TJ

Roy

08-09-06, 04:41 PM

Since all of the main characters seem to have had some level of interaction with Hanso or Widmore before ending up on Craphole Island, any one of them (or several of them) could have brought their "free Apollo bars" with them in their luggage.

truffula

08-09-06, 04:47 PM

I'm trying to remember a scene here.....

When Rose and Hurley were cataloging the food (in S2E4), and they got to the Apollo bars, didn't one of them make some comment about how they'd never heard of them before?

ETA - found it (from spooky's transcripts):

[Hurley opens a box full of Apollo bars.]

HURLEY: Apollo bars? Ever hear of these?

So apparently Hurley, who lived in CA, where Apollo bars were supposedly so big, has never heard of them....

chaz

08-09-06, 04:51 PM

CONFIDENTIAL MEMORANDUM

TO: Dr. Hackett
Apollo Candy

FROM: G. Downs
Engineering Development Center
Atlanta, GA

Date: July 21, 2004

RE: Test Study

Dr. Hackett,

Initial research shows release of the psychotropic compound to be
a success. The acid and flavoring agents of the beverage disguise the
taste. More tests are necessary to reach optimum viral spread. My superiors are eager for you to join our effort, once you have extricated
yourself from your current situationn.

G.
Quote:

Could this refer to Nozz-a-la Cola ?

http://nozzala.com/

Richardstone

08-09-06, 04:52 PM

I'm gonna have to watch that scene now...

ROSE: Huh-uh, but candy is candy -- that's what Bernard always says. Talk about a sweet-tooth. That man has a mouth full of sweet-teeth

What's huh-uh?

Nuh-uh or Yuh-uh I understand, huh-uh is strangely ambiguos...

I guess since she says candy is candy she's never heard of them either...

Richardstone

08-09-06, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Could this refer to Nozz-a-la Cola ?

http://nozzala.com/

That's been in the show, sort-of...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v115/Richardstone/gondola.jpg

:)

I don't think that site is official in any way, it's just to sell T-Shirts...

I think the Nozz-A-La Cola logo seen here is from Stephen Kings Kingdom Hospital, which is also made by ABC...

chaz

08-09-06, 05:05 PM

What was the pilot drinking when we saw him in the airport flashback? I remember him saying something about "only soda for me I'm flying"

chaz

08-09-06, 05:24 PM

It says beverage in the memo, that's the only source so far...

Chaz, was that in the unsees flashbacks from the DVD?

I remember the pilot sitting in the bar area. He was telling a female not to be afraid. I think it was Claire.

Could of been from the DVD....not sure.

QuarterRoy00

08-09-06, 05:25 PM

I'm pretty sure that is one of the unaired flashbacks from the season 1 DVD

Richardstone

08-09-06, 05:26 PM

I remember the pilot sitting in the bar area. He was telling a female not to be afraid. I think it was Claire.

Could of been from the DVD....not sure.

If he was talking to Claire then it's definitely one of the unseed flashbacks from the season one DVD, I'll see if I can find a transcript or better yet a clip on youtube...

:)

ETA:- I found it but it has Spanish subtitles, not a problem...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxKkq0kKqCo

No mention of Cola though chaz?

rvturnage

08-09-06, 06:02 PM

Huh-uh = nuh-uh = no

just a different way to say the same thing.

see you in the next life

08-09-06, 07:25 PM

I am just digging the fact that we are talking about this sort of stuff.....as always, I am looking for connections to the TV show.

LAN......As I mentioned earlier.....I think that it is quite interesting that several of the folks who have ingested the candy bars have had "visions."

Then again, the visions could all be the smoke monster.

Remember, TPTB said we might have seen it in Season 2 and didn't realize it....that just about has to be the visions.

Still, I like the idea of psychotropic drugs messing with the gang.

rvturnage

08-09-06, 07:39 PM

Not to mention that, according to the memo, they were still testing the beverage version of the drug in july 2004...which means that it probably wasn't available in Sept. 2004...perhaps the candy bars were a first use, but since everyone doesn't eat candy bars, they decided to spike the sodas as well?

Richardstone

08-09-06, 07:42 PM

I am just digging the fact that we are talking about this sort of stuff.....as always, I am looking for connections to the TV show.

LAN......As I mentioned earlier.....I think that it is quite interesting that several of the folks who have ingested the candy bars have had "visions."

Looking for connections, what more do we need?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v115/Richardstone/Valenzetti.jpg

It's not the candy that has psychotropic ingredients, it's the beverage, whatever that turns out to be...

Or are we thinking it's in the candy too? Do we have anything to back that up?

:)

rvturnage

08-09-06, 07:50 PM

It's not the candy that has psychotropic ingredients, it's the beverage, whatever that turns out to be...

Or are we thinking it's in the candy too? Do we have anything to back that up?

:)No, it's total speculation on my part, since the memo only mentions beverages. But since they were still testing ("Initial research shows release of the psychotropic compound to be a success.") as of the end of July, i doubt that it would be ready for use in early Sept. for the Losties on the show.

Of course, since the show is "TV fictions", and the ARG is real world, maybe we're looking to specifically...what it in the REAL world, they were spiking cola's , but TPTB changed it to candy bars for use on the "fictional" TV show?

rt

ETA: just to try and clarify my post...while this memo mentions beverages being spiked, perhaps when creating the show, TPTB simply took it a step forward and decided to include some other food. The real clue/tie in with the show, is the fact that there is now a history of spiking food/drink with psychotropic ingredients. now, we have yet to see a link between Dr. Hackett and Widmore/Hanso/DHARMA, but I'm sure one's coming...

I'd say this is an explanation for the Havid's the folks on the island have been having. The only thing is, Jack had his visions before food & water were found on the island. The only food they'd had at that point had been on the plane....and I'm not in the corner of those that believe it was a Hanso conspiracy to crash that plane...

rvt

Richardstone

08-09-06, 09:36 PM

2. That picture of the yellow tarped or shrink-wrapped object popped up eons ago, well before TLE, and was revealed as having been heavily photo shopped.

What tarped or shrink wrapped object?

NeillT006

08-09-06, 09:42 PM

This one?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v115/Richardstone/gondola.jpg

rvturnage

08-09-06, 09:52 PM

This one?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v115/Richardstone/gondola.jpg

That's the gondola portion of Henry Gale's balloon...that particular shot was from lost-media, if I remember correctly... In some of the screen caps from the show, you can see the logos, but not really tell what they are until you compare them to this.

ETA: Not sure why we're discussing this spiked beverage/candy in two places (here and in "building the story behind the clues" (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19024)), but Neill, i wonder what you think about my assertion in the other thread (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=875883&postcount=173) that, since in the ARG, "LOST" is TV show, it doesn't matter if the memo refers to a cola, coffee or candy...the important thing seems to be that we've now been shown a history of spiking food with a psychotropic substance. That could be a very big time clue as to the origin of the Havids on the TV show...although when Jack had his vision of his father, they had not consumed anything but food from the plane and local fruit and fish...

Richardstone

08-09-06, 09:55 PM

Yeah I'm pretty sure it's genuine and not photoshoped, though I could be wrong...

It matches up perfectly with the promo shots...

First place I saw it was on 4815162342.com, I think it was taken on a cameraphone if I remember rightly...

NeillT006

08-09-06, 09:56 PM

That's the gondola portion of Henry Gale's balloon...that particular shot was from lost-media, if I remember correctly... In some of the screen caps from the show, you can see the logos, but not really tell what they are until you compare them to this.

I recall that being argued.

But the amount of image manipulation going on in that shot is hard to dispute.

N.

Richardstone

08-09-06, 09:58 PM

I recall that being argued.

But the amount of image manipulation going on in that shot is hard to dispute.

N.

I think that was because it was taken on a cameraphone, I don't think they could have got the Minesota Mining & Metalurgy sign that right by chance, I don't think it's been manipulated at all, but if there's any evidence it has I'll stand corrected...

I'll try and find the promo shot where you can see the MM&M logo...

rvturnage

08-09-06, 10:00 PM

Actually, i don't know that the shot is really relevant at all right now...see my ETA to the above post...I don't think the specific delivery method (cola, candy bar) is the important thing here...I think it's the fact that drugged food is being tested...

NeillT006

08-09-06, 10:04 PM

I think that was because it was taken on a cameraphone

I guess that could be, although the things giving the appearance of manipulation are in focused areas of interest rather than spread across the entire image, which struck me as cause for questioning the "artifacts of cameraphone" explanation.

Now, I know that Pan vouched for this, which I do not casually discount. But I think the image is suspect nonetheless.

N.

rvturnage

08-09-06, 10:09 PM

I guess that could be, although the things giving the appearance of manipulation are in focused areas of interest rather than spread across the entire image, which struck me as cause for questioning the "artifacts of cameraphone" explanation.

Now, I know that Pan vouched for this, which I do not casually discount. But I think the image is suspect nonetheless.

N.

just for reference, here's a promo photo from lost-media:

http://lost-media.com/modules/coppermine/albums/ep-promos/sea2/lockdown/lockdown-promo06.jpg

which shows the logos...they are difficult to make out, but do seem to match up to the shot that Richard posted...

ETA: sorry truff! didn't see your post...

Richardstone

08-09-06, 10:37 PM

I would'nt post anything that I knew to be fake, I first posted the picture to show that Apollo Candy were not one of the sponsors...

Cheers rvt, that's exactly the shot I was looking for, you can see the MM&M sign fairly clearly...

What I've never been able to find is the episode of Kingdom Hospital with Nozz-A-La in, I've never had any luck finding screencaps...

Throughout the series, all the characters drink Nozz-A-La, and the truck that stops to help Rickman is a Nozz-A-La delivery truck.

http://www.thedarktower.net/wiki/Main/KingdomHospital

That truck has gotta have a logo, I'd bet money on it being the same one as we see on Henry Gale's gondola...

http://abc.go.com/primetime/kingdomhospital/

Both shows were made by ABC...

see you in the next life

08-09-06, 11:28 PM

It remains my opinion that TPTB opened up a major can of worms with the whole "the tv show is fiction and the ARG is real."

Additionally, it would have been better, in my opinion, if they had simply set the ARG in motion and somehow stated that the "events unfolding are unfolding prior to the crash of Flight 815 or just slightly after the crash of flight 815 (you know, happening simultaneously with what is happening on craphole island).

I just don't see how they will ever resolve these time differences, etc.

I guess they are a lot smarter than I am.

Richardstone

08-09-06, 11:32 PM

It remains my opinion that TPTB opened up a major can of worms with the whole "the tv show is fiction and the ARG is real."

I tried explaning it to my sister the other day...

I did'nt get very far...

What it boiled down to was "how can Rachel Blake the character from LOST exist in the real world to ask Damon & Co. questions about THF at Comic Con"

It's very hard to explain and to get your head around...

HansoLow

08-09-06, 11:35 PM

"how can Rachel Blake the character from LOST exist in the real world to ask Damon & Co. questions about THF at Comic Con...

...and more importantly, if they were arguing with her about the existance of the Hanso Foundation, then why the heck are they (and the stars of their show) wearing wristbands with her codes on them???

see you in the next life

08-09-06, 11:37 PM

C O N V O L U T E D M E S S

and that ain't no code

aggiesean

08-09-06, 11:38 PM

Shameless plug (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22894) for my TLE theory...my attempt to explain this question.

:Cowdance:

TerminalFrost

08-10-06, 02:12 AM

Just a quick random thought brought on by this discussion of possible food tampering with psychotropic substances.

Could this be the REAL use of the mystery "vaccine" in the show? Could it be a compound to moderate the effects of the psychotropics in the food?

It would seem to me that if you built an experimental station where a team of people had to stay aware enough to enter a number sequence in a computer and execute it every 108 minutes, you really wouldn't want them whacked out of their skulls by their lunch.

Echo

08-11-06, 08:05 AM

1. Gary Troup (real author in ARG world) died in plane crash September 2004.

2. Lost TV show is fiction according to TPTB and according to Rachel Blake.

3. Rachel (in EW interview) asserts that THF are, in essence, paying for the show by running ads during the show. Accuses TPTB at ComiCon of tacitly supporting a corrupt organization. Ironically, THF have backlashed at the show (McIntyre on Jimmy Kimmel and have also attacked Bad Twin).

4. The ARG occurs in real-time 2006 but the "fictional" show is set in 2004 and based loosely on real events that occurred in 2004.

5. In the ARG, Mittelwerk is preparing to send "recruits" ???to an island??? to initiate ???Spider Protocol??? and tells them they must ???continue to assert the story they know by heart???

I wish we could somehow construct a theory that ties all of this together so that the show set in 2004 collides with the ARG in 2006.

Okay, the bolded got me thinking. What kind of people would want to assert a story they know by heart? Well, maybe people who love something very much. Kind of like the people on here love lost. We know that in the world of the ARG Lost is a TV show. So what if all the recruits are just ARG Losties who found out the truth: that the island is real and the others are still manipulating a set of survivors, for some reason. That quote just makes me keep thinking about the Matrix, like they're repeating the same thing over and over again...

Sorry if this is incoherent.

Batman Laz0r

08-12-06, 08:39 AM

What I've never been able to find is the episode of Kingdom Hospital with Nozz-A-La in, I've never had any luck finding screencaps...

I was just watching Kingdom Hospital and ran over here when I saw Nozz-A-La in it. I'm not too familiar with the series so I don't know exactly if this is the last episode or not, but there is definitely a Nozz-A-La Cola machine "in the world between" (dunno if there's also one in the 'real' world too)

I definitely just saw it when the whole party of people are sent to the world between (looking for Mary); one of the characters tries to buy a soda at the machine and instead a piece of chalk comes out.

ETA:
That truck has gotta have a logo, I'd bet money on it being the same one as we see on Henry Gale's gondola...

http://abc.go.com/primetime/kingdomhospital/

Looking at the "Sightings" page, you can see this (http://abc.go.com/primetime/kingdomhospital/gallery/15.html)pic.

duality

08-12-06, 11:54 AM

I was just watching Kingdom Hospital and ran over here when I saw Nozz-A-La in it. I'm not too familiar with the series so I don't know exactly if this is the last episode or not, but there is definitely a Nozz-A-La Cola machine "in the world between" (dunno if there's also one in the 'real' world too)

Nozz-A-La Cola is also very prominent in his Dark Tower series, and I think it may be in some of his other books as well. The Dark Tower series pulls in characters and scenarios from a lot of his other books.

truffula

08-14-06, 10:19 PM

This new frag from today where Alvar says "The fate of the human race is in your hands" really got me thinking about what Fenry said to Michael - "We're the good guys".

Fenry and crew are just like the folks that Mittelwerk is now lecturing (with the obvious higher ups - Fenry, Klugh, and to a lesser extent Tom and Pickett), its also likely that Kelvin (and possibly Radzinsky) joined Dharma through Mittelwerk.
Point is, they've all seen that video with Alvar I think.
They must really think they're saving the world.....or that's the "story" they know by heart that they're feeding to all the "test subjects".

It would also be cool if "and now we have to take radical action" is a result of Desmond turning the failsafe key.
I know timeline wise it makes no sense, but they screwed that up enough that I can just blur it all together :p

Its also apparent that Alvar checks up on progress on the Island still because Tom said to Ethan "Do you know what will happen if HE finds out?" And I don't think he was talking about Fenry, he might've been, but I don't think so. :)

Was that enough rambling for one post?
Hehehe ;)

Richardstone

08-14-06, 10:30 PM

Its also apparent that Alvar checks up on progress on the Island still because Tom said to Ethan "Do you know what will happen if HE finds out?" And I don't think he was talking about Fenry, he might've been, but I don't think so. :)

I've been of the opinion that Alvar Hanso is "HIM" ever since The Hunting Party, when Zeke quoted him, you get the feeling he may know that speech of by heart...

Now it has been suggested that because they were in constume at the time anything they said may also have been "in character" as it were, but I've always felt there was a genuine reverence about the way Zeke delivered that line...

Dagolu

08-14-06, 10:34 PM

yeah, that sounded forced, not just out of the blue. he had learned to say that, then again, all of lost is scripted.

McBain

08-15-06, 06:18 AM

Its also apparent that Alvar checks up on progress on the Island still because Tom said to Ethan "Do you know what will happen if HE finds out?" And I don't think he was talking about Fenry, he might've been, but I don't think so. :)

What I've been thinking lately is that maybe HE is the honorable Dr Mittelwerk. In my mind Hanso is the altruistic, if perhaps misguided, megalomaniac, while Tom is the megalomaniac more likely to inspire fear and strike down with great vengeance and furious anger.

littlelabrynth

08-15-06, 08:04 AM

I wanted to bring this (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=557605&postcount=259) post back to everyone's attention. It was originally posted by 3-Putt in The Lost Experience Alternate Reality Game Hype & Prep Thread.

Here are some casting sides from actor's access website (http://www.showfax.com/type_selection.cfm?l=1&c=lost+promotional+campaign)for a "LOST PROMOTIONAL CAMPAIGN (INTERNET) (http://www.showfax.com/signin.cfm?r=519500&l=1)":

(The casting director is listed as "SHERMAN/ROONEY (http://www.showfax.com/signin.cfm?r=518522&l=1)". The category is "Commercials/Infomercials/Voiceovers (http://www.showfax.com/signin.cfm?r=519062&l=1)".)

AMY JENSEN
Early to mid 20s. An attractive, intelligent, resourceful and puckish young woman, Amy Jensen always suspected that a piece of her past was missing - that her single mother never told her the entire truth about her father. With the same inquisitive, yet rebellious spirit that led Amy to excel in her education, she put aside her career aspirations to search for her missing parent full-time...and she will do it with the same rebel ferocity and humor with which she has pursued everything in her life...THIS MAJOR ROLE WOULD RECUR IN SEVERAL EPISODES OF THIS INTERNET CAMPAIGN. THE ACTRESS WOULD NEED TO BE AVAILABLE FOR VARIOUS
PERSONAL APPEARANCES FROM JULY THROUGH SEPTEMBER.

THOMAS JACKSON
Early to mid-40s. A child prodigy in the sciences, Thomas Jackson soon learned that he could get as far in the world through Machiavellian diplomacy as with his intellect. Jackson is a friendly, convivial man - the kind of guy who can pour you a cup of coffee while making the argument that mass murder is a good thing... and you might just believe him. Always pleasant and agreeable, Thomas Jackson is a consummate manipulator of people and events - never one to raise his voice or resort to anger, he is quite simply armed with the strength of his conviction and the power of his ideas...which would be fine, if his ideas weren't absolutely dangerous...ACTOR SHOULD HAVE OR DO BRITISH OR
GENERAL WESTERN EUROPEAN ACCENT

FREDERICK DEEDS
50s, will also play older. Frederick Deeds worked his family business into an international conglomerate, becoming wealthy beyond dreams in the process. A driven man, but not one to fall back on his privilege - and the source of his money and power - Deeds is making every attempt to transform his fortune into a philanthropic concern. Guided by his conscience and passion, Deeds' desire to do what is right often clouds his judgment with terrible onsequences...ACTOR SHOULD HAVE OR DO BRITISH OR GENERAL WESTERN EUROPEAN ACCENT

LARRY COOPER
(mid 30’s to early 40’s): A rugged world traveler and confirmed bachelor, Larry Cooper has gone his own way, seeing the length and breadth of the Earth and trying every challenge at least once. He has styled himself as a latter day Ernest Hemingway, traveling light, writing about his experiences, and collecting few attachments along the
way... as we catch up to Larry, he has just met the first woman he has ever seen who has made him doubt his lifestyle, and he is a little flummoxed by the entire experience as he wrestles with the question, will he be able to slow down his pilgrim ways for the love of a woman?

LAIRD GRANGER
???

Now that we are in Act III and have seen the major characters on video, I think it is safe to assume that:
*Amy Jensen = Rachel Blake
*Thomas Jackson = Thomas Werner Mittlewerk
*Frederick Deeds = Alvar Hanso
*Larry Cooper = Gary Troupe
*Laird Granger = According to Lostpedia (http://lostpedia.com/wiki/Laird_Granger), he is the man who interviewed Gary Troupe a few days before Flight 815

Let's go back to this:
(bolding is mine for emphasis)
FREDERICK DEEDS
50s, will also play older. Frederick Deeds worked his family business into an international conglomerate, becoming wealthy beyond dreams in the process. A driven man, but not one to fall back on his privilege - and the source of his money and power - Deeds is making every attempt to transform his fortune into a philanthropic concern. Guided by his conscience and passion, Deeds' desire to do what is right often clouds his judgment with terrible consequences...ACTOR SHOULD HAVE OR DO BRITISH OR GENERAL WESTERN EUROPEAN ACCENT

The man that identifies himself as Alvar Hanso in the video does appear to be in his 50's. It states above that he will also play older. So I guess that means MORE Alvar Hanso. :hyper:

Now the question is...will we get more Alvar Hanso just during the rumoured Acts IV & V.....or.....maybe the supposed big tie-in between the ARG and Season 3 will be Hanso on the island.:crossfing

This new frag from today where Alvar says "The fate of the human race is in your hands" really got me thinking about what Fenry said to Michael - "We're the good guys".
Its also apparent that Alvar checks up on progress on the Island still because Tom said to Ethan "Do you know what will happen if HE finds out?" And I don't think he was talking about Fenry, he might've been, but I don't think so. :)

I think truff's on the right track.

QuarterRoy00

08-15-06, 05:59 PM

The more I watch of the video, the more I get the feeling that Alvar isn't such a bad guy after all. Maybe we havn't seen him for all these years because our boy Mittlewerk has him locked up somewhere, maybe in one of the other hatches on the island. Maybe Alvar realized things were getting out of hand and wanted to stop whatever they were doing, and the Evil Doctor (apologies to Will Truman) decided to overthrow him and took him hostage.

Just my thoughts on the matter anyway.......

HansoLow

08-15-06, 06:40 PM

littlelabrynth, great work making those connections between the casting requirements and the characters/actors that we now see. I think Truff's your analysis is dead on.

QuarterRoy00, as far as Mittlewerk having Hanso locked up somewhere on the Island, I don't think it will be that "soap opera"-ish.

QuarterRoy00

08-15-06, 06:43 PM

QuarterRoy00, as far as Mittlewerk having Hanso locked up somewhere on the Island, I don't think it will be that "soap opera"-ish.

You mean there's no secret room in the wine cellar??
:cool:

littlelabrynth

08-15-06, 07:13 PM

littlelabrynth, great work making those connections between the casting requirements and the characters/actors that we now see. I think Truff's your analysis is dead on.

It wasn't me who made all of those connections. Many people have theorized and guessed as to whom these characters were. I think GoAlvar was the first person to state their opinion (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=677202&postcount=143)about Amy=Rachel and Deeds=Hanso. I'm not sure who was first to connect the other characters. I really just brought the topic up for anyone who may have missed or forgot about it. I think it's nice to have a written summary of what the creators are wanting to portray to us. Plus...I want to know when/where I will get to see more Alvar Hanso. :D

Also...if anyone has not yet read over the summary of what Rachel (http://stophanso.rachelblake.com/recap.html) has been trying to get accross to us about the Hanso Foundation, I think it is also a worthwhile read.

I will post it here for anyone interested. This is only the last section labeled MORE DETAIL.
Tagged for size.
MORE DETAIL on The Hanso Foundation:
The Hanso Foundation is currently working on 6 major projects, each with its own dark underbelly:

The Mathematical Forecasting Initiative
Their claim: Have you seen their AD (http://www.djdan.am/eyes-oin-the-man.html)? They’d have you believe that “By understanding and modeling the mathematic probability of seismic human events, The Hanso Foundation can illuminate the path ahead and provide a true road map to the betterment of humanity.”
The truth: Their population growth models have been used to foster tribal wars in Africa. They have an enclave of mathematicians working in secret on a doomsday formula called the Valenzetti Equation.

Worldwide Wellness and Prevention Development Program
Their claim: “The Worldwide Wellness and Prevention Development Program… [is] a far-reaching educational initiative designed to teach the basics of sanitation, nutrition and disease prevention to the world.”
The truth: Hanso-funded hospitals in the developing world have been participating in unauthorized experimentation and live organ-harvesting programs. Patient rights have been violated, families destroyed, and the press accounts have been suppressed.

Mental Health Appeal
Their claim: The Foundation’s cutting-edge research and facilities are aimed at fully eradicating mental illness by the end of this century. Their flagship mental health facility, The Vik Institute (in Vik, Iceland), offers gene therapies, radical pharmaceutical treatments and the latest in both surgery and psychotherapy.
The truth: The Vik Institute’s own director, Armand Zander, is now missing, presumably murdered, after speaking to me regarding a team of mathematicians working in secret within The Vik Institute. His assertion? That Dr. Thomas Werner Mittelwerk, President of The Hanso Foundation, has used institutionalized autistic savants as human computers to run the mysterious Valenzetti Equation. But to what end?

Electromagnetic Research Initiative
Their claim: “Through a myriad of experiments worldwide, the Electromagnetic Research Initiative brings us a step closer to understanding this crucial force -– and in doing so, our place in the Universe.”
The truth: The Hanso Foundation has erected an electromagnetic antenna off the coast of East Asia for some unknown purpose. It has disrupted telecommunications, knocked out satellites and deformed ocean life, but Hanso Foundation bribes to high-placed foreign officials have kept the project up and running.

The Institute for Genomic Advancement
Their claim: “In what may be the most forward-reaching of The Hanso Foundation’s active projects, the Institute seeks nothing less than the eradication of disease and birth defects through a deeper understanding of the function and mechanisms of the human genome.”
The truth: The Hanso Foundation is tampering with the genetic structures of an unknown number of animal and microbial species. Photo evidence of a beached shark with a Hanso-specific tag, as well as a bacterial outbreak in Tanzania, indicates they have already released some of these genetically modified species into the wild.

The Life-Extension Project
Their claim: “The grand summation of all of the Foundation’s work – from prevention and wellness, to the development of new gene therapies and the development of young minds -– is nothing less than the extension of life itself.”
The truth: Their life-extension programs have spawned deadly disease outbreaks in Africa, the news of which has been suppressed with bribes and internal takeovers within the Global Welfare Consortium, the world’s leading medical watchdog organization.

The DHARMA Initiative
There is also a seventh project… called the DHARMA Initiative. Little is known about this program, but everything I’ve discovered has led me to the conclusion that the scientists of the DHARMA Initiative disappeared over 30 years ago.
What happened to them???

truffula

08-17-06, 01:00 AM

So I was sitting at work bored today, but with limited compy access, so I went old-school and brainstormed on paper.

What I wanted to do was spark some discussions between frag releases.
Here are my ramblings - and some of this might sound crazy - but I think I hit on a few really cool things.....check it out....

The Others and Children - children are very impressionable, especially from birth - they know nothing but what Dharma tells them - "The Story" For example, Alex was born on the Island and from what we know, has never left, and been an "other" almost all her life (shy of the few months she had with Danielle that she probably remembers little of - but enough to be good and help Claire escape). Could it be that they let Walt go because after running him through a series of tests, they realized he was too old (too old to complete the training he is)? They obviously learned something from testing him, cause Fenry seemed awfully happy about Walt "joining them".

The LIST of the "Good" - "precise genetic targets" assesed by Dharma infiltrators and LISTS compiled of potential candidates.

Mittelwerk's Plan - get this group of Dharma recruits to the Island as fast as possible. Desmond turning that failsafe key caused alot of problems for Hanso. Thus the rush order on the Helgus Antonius.

The Sickness - there is no sickness. Rousseau, where we heard of this "sickness" first, obviously encountered Dharma folks on her time on the Island - she knew Fenry was one of them. Whoever she encountered must've filled her head with those loopy drugs that they gave Claire and fed her "The Story" about the "sickness" and that her crew was infected. They needed to get to her baby, and instead of doing the deed themselves, they tricked Danielle into doing it for them. Ethan was trying to feed the same "story" to Claire before they tried to take her baby.

The NUMBERS and the Valenzetti Equation - so the Valenzetti Equation "predicts the exact number of years and months before humanity extinguishes itself". The massive (possibly world ending) EMP in the Swan is prevented by inputting the NUMBERS (what I believe to be the Valenzetti Equation in some form). So essentially during the UN session, they realized that the world would end sometime in the 70s and by using the Valenzetti Equation, found the Island and set up Stations to prevent it from happening. Then it happened, the moment they'd been waiting for - THE INCIDENT. "shortly after, there was an Incident, and now the following protocol must be observed" - now Dharma begins inputting the Valenzetti Equation/NUMBERS to prevent the EMP from unleashing its apocolyptic power on the world - "just saving the world". But what about the failsafe key? What did that do? I address that next....

Mittelwerk's Plan (Part 2) - now, because Desmond turned the key, Hanso has to "take radical action". What happened when Desmond turned the failsafe key? He shut the whole project down, and a last ditch attempt to counter the EMP was activated - and it worked. The bright light was whatever counteragent they had in place to stop the EMP from growing too big doing just that. Apocolypse prevented - for now. Unforunately, the reason why autistic savants are running the Valenzetti equation non-stop at the Vik institute is because THAT "apocalypse" was prevented, another must be determined now, and it sound like they have - "our operatives at the Vik institute have verified this figure" - the NEW date of the apocalypse.

Somehow, the Island plays a pivotal role in all this.....but its the one part I cant settle on.....

Alvar Hanso - is HIM. And he knows all about what's goin on on HIS Island. Unless the DeGroots are Adam and Eve (which I think was debunked by one of the writers, maybe even Javi), they are also likely in on the whole thing. Mittelwerk is the public face of THF, while Alvar keeps HIS eye on the Island and progress from there. Those who know HIM have a tremendous amount of respect for HIM (Tom quoting HIM in "The Hunting Party", Fenry's praise of HIM when questioned about the "others").

The Island - "you and your colleagues will be SHIPPED to a Top Secret Facility" - and how exactly are they going to arrive at the Island? I seriously doubt the Helgus Antonius is just gonna pull up unnoticed. I'm guessing it goes to wherever Fenry/the boat/Walt came from - Dharma's REAL HQ. For no one to see it, the "snowglobe" effect would have to come to play (*note - at this moment, glyph #42 was released and I lost my train of thought ;)) or some sort of invisibility factor, ie - the same reason why no one saw or heard the plane that dropped the Dharma supplies....

The Timeline Snafu - its a big mess, I know. But the way I'm lookin at it is I'm gonna ignore "technically" what years these events are supposed to be taking place. I am going to assume that the events of TLE started right after Desmond turned the failsafe key. I'm sure the "time" issue will be addressed eventually; I think that's going to be a large part of the explanation of the show. For all we know, that phone call that Penny Widmore got could've been from 2006, who knows?

Before I end, I say that these ideas weren't too well thought out and I'm sure there are more holes in some of these theories than swiss cheese (thus why its in here and not in a new thread in Webmaze T&S). This literally comes from 3 pages of hand scribbled notes as I let my mind go a mile a minute. So be nice ;) And enjoy! :)

Peace,
Truff

~G~

08-17-06, 01:10 AM

Truff, I like where you're going. A couple of thoughts...

The Children: Most poltergeist activity is now almost universally agred to be a psychokinetic phenomenon. Most cases involve young/pre-pubescent children. Bodies, and minds, are quickly developing, and an agitated pre-teen is usually at the center of polt activity. Could this be the talent, or some of-shoot thereof, that they are trying to harness? For long distance safety protocol?

Genetic targets and Mittlewerk's plan Part I: If our survivors were picked for whatever genetic pattern/mutation they posess, could it be possible that some of these recruits in the frag vid are being prepped to guide our heroes lives, including getting them on the plane?

Could there be a HIM for different groups of Others? I am still not convinced that Fenry and his camp are the same as the Whisper Others. Fenry's HIM being the more humanitarian, though ego-maniacal, Alvar? The other HIM, the one spoken of in a fearful tone, the twisted and dangerous Mittlewerk?

see you in the next life

08-17-06, 01:19 AM

see you in the next life

08-17-06, 01:20 AM

Sorry....you already answered that question at the end.

truffula

08-17-06, 01:23 AM

So, Truffula.....are you saying:

That in 2004 our Losties failed to turn the key in time and now Mittelwerk is rushing to get new recruits to the island......in 2006?

This rush is 2 years later or is time that different on the island compared to real (ARG) time?????

Or am I lost (with respect to what you are trying to say).
Thats exactly what I'm tryin to say. I know it doesnt make much sense, and makes your brains drip out your ears if you try to comprehend it....but I think that's what they're goin for, and it kinda makes sense to me (and supports alot of what I wrote in my last post), so I'm not gonna bother tryin to explain.....it'll make me dizzy tryin :p

The one thing that I can add that kinda supports this is a little spoilerish so in tags it goes:

Damon said at comiccon that perhaps the Losties weren't on the Island as long as they thought they were...

Echo

08-17-06, 06:09 AM

Thats exactly what I'm tryin to say. I know it doesnt make much sense, and makes your brains drip out your ears if you try to comprehend it....but I think that's what they're goin for, and it kinda makes sense to me (and supports alot of what I wrote in my last post), so I'm not gonna bother tryin to explain.....it'll make me dizzy tryin :p

The one thing that I can add that kinda supports this is a little spoilerish so in tags it goes:

Damon said at comiccon that perhaps the Losties weren't on the Island as long as they thought they were...

What if the time difference was a 2 year period where they ran tests on the "genetically superior/different" people. I also like this theory because it explains why some people are killed and others left alive. Those people killed just happened to be on the plane. I think the 2 year time period could explain the whole 5 o'clock shadow in a couple of minutes thing.

see you in the next life

08-17-06, 11:35 AM

How do we explain the fact that the Bad Twin website reports that Gary Troup was killed on Flight 815 in 2004?

truffula

08-17-06, 11:43 AM

How do we explain the fact that the Bad Twin website reports that Gary Troup was killed on Flight 815 in 2004?
Again, as soon as you try to make sense of the "timeline snafu" none of it makes sense. Thats why I'm ignoring the "time" details and just going with the flow ;)

see you in the next life

08-17-06, 11:58 AM

Agreed.

Smidge

08-17-06, 12:11 PM

Again, as soon as you try to make sense of the "timeline snafu" none of it makes sense. Thats why I'm ignoring the "time" details and just going with the flow ;)

And that could very well be how they're going to explain Malcolm David Kelley's growth. Can you see it now? Michael and Walt leave on the boat, Walt is 10 - then they reappear on the island and Walt is say 14 - picture the look on the Lostie's faces!

Richardstone

08-17-06, 12:26 PM

I've always thought Damon said that with tongue firmly in cheeck...

If Desmond gets reunited with Penny and it goes like this...

DES: THREE YEARS PEN, I've been on that bloody island for three years

PEN: Actually Des, you only left a month ago, I was a bit worried...

Anything like that would suck, IMO...

With Walt as well, Walt did'nt grow, Malcolm David Kelley did. For Walt he was gone for maybe a few weeks, for the actor playing Walt it was months, he got bigger, they don't need to write that into the script, again, IMO...

I'm worried that the longer it goes on the more the initial idea behind LOST changes because...

Hey we've gotta explain this somehow...

Interesting stuff Truff, perhaps the button was like a stopwatch, now that the failsafe has been turned the countdown to Armegeddon has begun again...

Maybe from 2004 they had say 4 years to get to the island and fix it?

Murky Majare

08-17-06, 12:47 PM

The Valenzetti Equation from what we have learned so far indicates the number of years, days, hours etc. until the world ends.

But what if Valenzetti did not have from which date this "four years etc." starts, i.e. the starting point.

What if that starting point was when the Losties in 2004 did not type in the numbers correctly? Perhaps this started the equation rolling and that sometime in 2008, the world goes bye bye.

Which incidently would be around season 5, when they have said their story is finished anyways.

see you in the next life

08-17-06, 01:04 PM

Richardstone said:

"Interesting stuff Truff, perhaps the button was like a stopwatch, now that the failsafe has been turned the countdown to Armegeddon has begun again..."

Conceptually, let me say I really dig the general idea of this.

rvturnage

08-17-06, 01:25 PM

So, Truffula.....are you saying:

That in 2004 our Losties failed to turn the key in time and now Mittelwerk is rushing to get new recruits to the island......in 2006?

This rush is 2 years later or is time that different on the island compared to real (ARG) time?????

Or am I lost (with respect to what you are trying to say).

I guess i'm not seeing a big issue with the time difference...I mean, it complicates interaction between TLE and the Show, but other than that, storywise, i don't see an issue. the V Equations predicts the end of the world. A global event. When dealing with global events/catastrophes, 2 years is not a long time, and, IMO could very well constitute a rushed response. We're not talking about rebuilding a home after a hurricane...

TheGuinea_Pig

08-17-06, 02:08 PM

OK, since I'm a big theories guy and I'm waiting for F42 to be confirmed, I'll weigh in a few items... some of which may help clarify and some of which will certainly muddy the waters:

The Timeline SNAFU: Let's assume for a moment that Damon wasn't stringing us along as his ComicCon statment was a legit clue. What if the fact that they haven't been on the island as long as they think they have means they've actually been there longer??? What if when Desmond activated the failsafe, a few months after the crash of Flight 815, it was 2006 in the "outside" world??? This would necessitate a fast-track scramble by Thomas (quick turnaround needed for the 'custom ship, "now we have to take radical action" from the video) of hardware and manpower needed to address the situation at the "top secret facility".

Alternatively, what if the plane disappeared in September 2004 but the "crash" and subsequent on-beach panic was in 2006? An 18 - 24-month suspended state during which mental conditioning has convinced the Losties that the crash happened as we saw it in the pilot. Not the best explanation for the time difference but plausible in a sci-fi setting.

This may also mean that Desmond could actually think he has been on the island for less than a year (I forget if we know how long he was there before the Losties arrived), while Penny knows he has been missing for over 2 years, possibly 3-4!!

HIM: Judging by what Rachel's shown us of Mittelwerk's work (or werk?) and this unraveling video it would seem that Thomas is very much directly in control of events. If we are to assume at this point that the group he is addressing in the video is another team of Others (or the existing Others who came off-island for a training session?) headed for Craphole Island then it seems that their direction is coming straight from Thomas and he's very adamant abaout what he wants from them. It's also implied from TLE that he's quite ruthless in his methods to achieve his goals. Thus, I would nominate Mittelwerk as HIM and Alvar as probably in a shallow grave or a cryo chamber somewhere.

see you in the next life

08-17-06, 02:21 PM

TheGuinea_Pig Said:

"The Timeline SNAFU: Let's assume for a moment that Damon wasn't stringing us along as his ComicCon statment was a legit clue. What if the fact that they haven't been on the island as long as they think they have means they've actually been there longer??? What if when Desmond activated the failsafe, a few months after the crash of Flight 815, it was 2006 in the "outside" world??? This would necessitate a fast-track scramble by Thomas (quick turnaround needed for the 'custom ship, "now we have to take radical action" from the video) of hardware and manpower needed to address the situation at the "top secret facility".

Alternatively, what if the plane disappeared in September 2004 but the "crash" and subsequent on-beach panic was in 2006? An 18 - 24-month suspended state during which mental conditioning has convinced the Losties that the crash happened as we saw it in the pilot. Not the best explanation for the time difference but plausible in a sci-fi setting.

This may also mean that Desmond could actually think he has been on the island for less than a year (I forget if we know how long he was there before the Losties arrived), while Penny knows he has been missing for over 2 years, possibly 3-4!!

HIM: Judging by what Rachel's shown us of Mittelwerk's work (or werk?) and this unraveling video it would seem that Thomas is very much directly in control of events. If we are to assume at this point that the group he is addressing in the video is another team of Others (or the existing Others who came off-island for a training session?) headed for Craphole Island then it seems that their direction is coming straight from Thomas and he's very adamant abaout what he wants from them. It's also implied from TLE that he's quite ruthless in his methods to achieve his goals. Thus, I would nominate Mittelwerk as HIM and Alvar as probably in a shallow grave or a cryo chamber somewhere."

Now, see.......there is an example of GOOD THINKING.

That not only makes sense but is an excellent idea.

RVTURNAGE........

I respectfully disagree. I think the time thing has to make sense in both the TV show and the ARG. You, I and all the others have invested a great deal of time in this little game.....and the payoff should be that in some way there is a logical flowing connection between the TV show and the game. For that to happen, I simply think the time thing has to work out.

Based on events that happened in 2004 on the TV show.....all events following to present would have to be connected. Why is Mittelwerk doing what he is doing now? The clues should come from events that unfolded on the show occurring in 2004 and leading up to ARG real time now.....

This is why I love TheGuinea_Pig's post.

That absolutely makes sense.

There remains, however, one naggin question:

How did ABC manage to develop a fictional TV show and get it on the air, based on the crash of real Flight 815 (which killed real author Gary Troup), literally the day before the crash actually took place (Season one began airing on September 22 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_22), 2004 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004)) ? Maybe they consluted with Claire's psychic or perhaps they managed to do a little "remote viewing and mathematical forecasting" of their own.

__________________

see you in the next life

08-17-06, 02:33 PM

OH CRAP.

New glyph reveals:

New clip #43: code 44KU2VKQ:

Spoiler: OMG this is big

Mittlewerk: "We all know what happened: The Dharma Initiative failed."

It's the end of the world as we know it.

rvturnage

08-17-06, 02:46 PM

RVTURNAGE........

I respectfully disagree. I think the time thing has to make sense in both the TV show and the ARG. You, I and all the others have invested a great deal of time in this little game.....and the payoff should be that in some way there is a logical flowing connection between the TV show and the game. For that to happen, I simply think the time thing has to work out.

Based on events that happened in 2004 on the TV show.....all events following to present would have to be connected. Why is Mittelwerk doing what he is doing now? The clues should come from events that unfolded on the show occurring in 2004 and leading up to ARG real time now.....

You misunderstand me, SYITNL. They are connected. I'm saying that it is entirely possible for them to be connected, and not have any time travel.

When dealing with earth shattering, global events like the V equation deals with, two years to come up with and execute a plan is not a long time. I'm saying that its entirely plausible for Desmond to have mucked something up in 2004, and that set in motion the events leading up to Mittlewerks return to the island 2 years later. I'm simply saying that when dealing with something of this potential scale (armegeddon), then two years IS a rushed response.

There remains, however, one naggin question:

How did ABC manage to develop a fictional TV show and get it on the air, based on the crash of real Flight 815 (which killed real author Gary Troup), literally the day before the crash actually took place (Season one began airing on September 22 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_22), 2004 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004)) ? Maybe they consluted with Claire's psychic or perhaps they managed to do a little "remote viewing and mathematical forecasting" of their own.

__________________
I believe that's something TPTB overlooked.

I disagree with TheGuinea_Pig that Mittlewerk is Him. I have a hard time believing they'll incorporate Mittlewerk into the show. And you know they'll have to have "HIM" in the show. I do agree with TheGuinea_Pig that Hanso is probably in a grave, but he's the most likely candidate for "HIM", assuming that Henry isn't HIM...

As to the latest clip "We all know what happened: The Dharma Initiative failed."

Yep. It failed back in '04 when desmond hit the failsafe. It's taken them two years to get another plan in place. The Spider Protocol.

rvt

see you in the next life

08-17-06, 02:52 PM

hey rvturnage.....check the Hansoexposed thread and take a look at my last post. Is this a new glyph in the chocolates video on youtube?

Richardstone

08-17-06, 02:54 PM

To further my thought about the clock ticking down, how much time was left after Desmond turned the key?

4 years, 8 months, 15 days, 16 hours, 23 minutes, 42 seconds...

Exactly...

Maybe that's why Mittelwerk is in such a hurry, there's really not much time left...

What is it about that island? Why do they need to be there? Could it be something to do with the geologically unique magnetic energy that was already there? Did DHARMA try and harness it or amplify it somehow and it got out of control, hence the incident?

What does all that have to do with The Valenzetti Equation and saving the world?

:confused:

QuarterRoy00

08-17-06, 03:10 PM

OK...so this has nothing to do w/ the current tangent we're on and might be better suited for one of the theory boards, but here goes anyway....

I don't know if there are any fans of Stephen King's 'Dark Tower' series, but I got reminded of the story line from book 5 'The Wolves of the Calla' when I saw the children getting taken.

Basically they take children from the village in a raid every few years and then bring them back 'roont' as they say in the book. This means drained of any mental capacity they had before; they become empty.

Maybe the Others that are taking the kids are using their mental capacities, whether psychic or not, for some other project, or even to help w/ the EMP, draining their brain power.

And the 'precise genetic targets' could refer to people w/ extra abilities to to something even greater.

Anyway...the children stealing always reminded me of that book so I thought I'd throw this out there....

rvturnage

08-17-06, 03:27 PM

hey rvturnage.....check the Hansoexposed thread and take a look at my last post. Is this a new glyph in the chocolates video on youtube?
Is that the vid with the sign language? I think it's a new clue for a new code. I'm not sure about the glyph on the shirt, though. Theres discussion of that going on in the GLYPH HUNTERS thread (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=898679&postcount=632)...complete with the latest from Speakers blog, which I think you'll like, SYITNL.

Richard:I think you're on to something, and I have the same question...what does genetic precision have to do with the Valenzetti equation?

rvt

Lawboy

08-17-06, 03:35 PM

Spoiler: OMG this is big

Mittlewerk: "We all know what happened: The Dharma Initiative failed."

Not sure what to make of that glyph, to be honest. Did the Dharma Initiative suffer a COMPLETE failure, or just at one task that is yet to be mentioned?? Based upon the fact that food drops are still occurring on Craphole Island, I would have to say that Mittlewerk may be referring to one task in particular, or else why continue the food drops if the Intitiative failed and is done?

QuarterRoy00

08-17-06, 03:39 PM

Richardstone

08-17-06, 03:43 PM

Richard:I think you're on to something, and I have the same question...what does genetic precision have to do with the Valenzetti equation?

rvt

That clip has been puzzling me since I first saw it, I gotta say I did'nt think of Walt or Aaron, it did'nt make me think of people at all...

Could it be more to do with an exact population sizes or something like that, akin to financial targets?

Like xxxxx ammount of people on continent A or there will be an outbreak of disease X by the year Z...

One of the factors in averting the end of the world maybe?

Does'nt really sound right though does it, genetic targets, maybe making sure people have an immunity to a certain disease by a certain time?

rvturnage

08-17-06, 03:44 PM

Not sure what to make of that glyph, to be honest. Did the Dharma Initiative suffer a COMPLETE failure, or just at one task that is yet to be mentioned?? Based upon the fact that food drops are still occurring on Craphole Island, I would have to say that Mittlewerk may be referring to one task in particular, or else why continue the food drops if the Intitiative failed and is done?

We don't know what's going on on craphole island in 2006. Those food drops were in '04. I see 2 possiblities:
1. DHARMA failed completely and utterly in '04, when Desomond flipped the failsafe.

2. Mittlewerk considers them to have failed back in the 80's which is why Hanso cut their funding. he's unaware of what's been happening on the island since then...which, I believe may well be Alvar funded. I'm rethinking my stance on Alvar as "him".

If the sign language clip on youtube translation is accurate, it sounds like we have a Hanso/Mittlewerk split. Which would have me leaning towards #2 being the time when "DHARMA" failed.

That clip has been puzzling me since I first saw it, I gotta say I did'nt think of Walt or Aaron, it did'nt make me think of people at all...

Could it be more to do with an exact population sizes or something like that, akin to financial targets?

Like xxxxx ammount of people on continent A or there will be an outbreak of disease X by the year Z...

One of the factors in averting the end of the world maybe?

Does'nt really sound right though does it, genetic targets, maybe making sure people have an immunity to a certain disease by a certain time?

Actually the first thing I thought of was Genetic Engineering, attempting to eliminate bad genes. Human programming.

The Sickness - there is no sickness. Rousseau, where we heard of this "sickness" first, obviously encountered Dharma folks on her time on the Island - she knew Fenry was one of them. Whoever she encountered must've filled her head with those loopy drugs that they gave Claire and fed her "The Story" about the "sickness" and that her crew was infected. They needed to get to her baby, and instead of doing the deed themselves, they tricked Danielle into doing it for them. Ethan was trying to feed the same "story" to Claire before they tried to take her baby.

But what about the vaccine? What's the purpose of that? Or is it just a prop to help foster the charade?

see you in the next life

08-17-06, 05:04 PM

There is a third and much more frightening possibility:

TPTB have created a monster that has spun wildly out of control and become so convoulted that no amount of deft writing can ever resolve the maddening inconsistencies that loom larger and larger and larger in the headlights of those who hope for a reasonable accounting of information presented.

Damn, I hope that ain't it.

see you in the next life

08-17-06, 05:20 PM

If Alvar is dead, I for one will be sad. I have grown to like him after watching the video segments 11 or 12 thousand times.

Zamboni

08-17-06, 07:32 PM

I think the SPIDER protocol (which I'm willing to bet dollars to doughnuts is an Acronym) is the last ditch effort to complete what the DHARMA initiative failed at doing.

HugoDiet

08-18-06, 07:21 AM

I think the SPIDER protocol (which I'm willing to bet dollars to doughnuts is an Acronym) is the last ditch effort to complete what the DHARMA initiative failed at doing.

The last week has been my catch up on Lost week. I've watched all of S2 three times now, took notes, up to date on all the glyphs, and now know a lot more.

Zamboni, I agree with you completely, but remember this. Inman was in the Desert Storm Operation, contacted with Sayid, around the early 90's. Then fast forward to when Inman was in the Hatch just after Desmonds arrival on the island. Inman said something to the tune, "...oh yeah, join the Dharma Initiative..." as if mocking his decision to join Dharma. So that pretty much tells us that in some way, whether full blown or secretly, the Dharma Initiative was still active in the early 90's, possibly mid 90's. I can't exactly remember if and when Inman said he arrived on the island. I would say its highly possible that Inman was one of the last, if not last recruits rotated onto the island. Hence his sudden interest into Desmond arriving and quickly questioning him.

Another thing, I saw somewhere someone was debating whether the Alvar Hanso/Orientation was being filmed from a laptop, or a TV. I've watched it a hundred times, and I've concluded this. Rachel is zoomed in onto a TV that is on a cart with a VCR/DVD or some sort of video displaying device. Maybe even BETA.... A few sequences later, we see Mittlewerk with a remote and it appears he is turning something off. Rachel turns away from the TV, and with the angle that the recruits are sitting, there is no way they could be watching the same TV that Rachel filmed off of. Hence, Mittlewerk turned off a secondary monitor, maybe a big screen of some sort, or something even projected possibly, that is tied into the TV/AV cart that Rachel filmed off of. A laptop it is definetly not. But I'm sure this debate isn't over just yet...

Echo

08-18-06, 07:52 AM

How did ABC manage to develop a fictional TV show and get it on the air, based on the crash of real Flight 815 (which killed real author Gary Troup), literally the day before the crash actually took place (Season one began airing on September 22 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_22), 2004 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004)) ? Maybe they consluted with Claire's psychic or perhaps they managed to do a little "remote viewing and mathematical forecasting" of their own.

Okay, it's late and I just ate a hot pocket. And, this borrows from everyone, so thanks to anyone who posted above. But, what if the relationship between TLE and the show is entirely reversed. I think most people think that the show inspired TLE; rightfully so, in our reality it did. But what if in TLE's alternate reality, the events on the island inspired the show. For what purpose? To recruit new members to Dharma.
Hang in here with me. From this point on, I'm going to be speaking about TLE's alternate reality and not that of our own.

What if (in TLE's reality) the show was created by THF in order to recruit new members to Dharma?
That means that there would have been a different story of what happened on the island similar to and yet the origin of the show.

(The following is my own speculation and is my attempt to create a "real history" [real in TLE's alternate reality] that would be the basis for which THF created their fictional show, Lost.)

Okay, back in the 1970s, Dharma was created by the DeGroots and Alvar, and it failed. It's failure was the INCIDENT. Perhaps Dharma was attempting to find a way to delay the end of the world, but the INCIDENT was when they toyed around too closely with the magnetic field on the island and brought the end of the world sooner. At that point, perhaps the Valenzetti Equation changed, and it found that the world would end in 108 minutes if the action that the button triggers was not done. So, Armagedden could be put off forever as long as the button was pressed every 108 minutes. Now, if the button was not pressed, the world would end if the failsafe was not activated. Even if the failsafe was activated the world still would end in 4 years, 8 months, 15 days, 16 hours, 23 minutes, and 42 seconds from that point.

So for over 30 years, those Dharma loyalists stayed on the island pushing the button. THF and anyone else who knew about Dharma forgot about it, wanting to distance themselves from the failure. As long as they did their job, they were fine. But then, in 2004, they ran out of people. Perhaps it was from the terrors of the island, or even old age (time flowing differently on the island). So whoever was the last button-pusher, their final act before dying was to activate the failsafe, knowing they wouldn't be around long enough to push the button any more. The failsafe would notify THF that something was up.

So, in a desperate attempt to get more people on the island, THF creates Lost. Then, they monitor online message boards like this very one to find the most dedicated Losties. They then approach those people with a promise of knowledge, the knowledge that there is actually an island and that Dharma has run out of people and they need fresh blood in order to save the world. These recruits welcome the chance to save the world and sign up. They're shipped out to Sri Lanka and we're seeing them now, watching the Orientation but also being lectured by Mittletwerk afterwards on how to do better this time.

Now, we know that in TLE's reality, Rachel can interact with the actors who play characters on Lost, and she believes that they have blood on their hands (for taking part in a show meant to recruit new members to Dharma?). In TLE's reality, maybe the old members of Dharma were lost on the island, presumbably in the original INCIDENT. Perhaps her Mom was on the Island and died because of the INCIDENT. Obviously, this would be why Rachel had such a problem with TPTB at ComicCon, and why she claims that there's blood on their hands.

The new recruits will head to the island, and "keep up the story" that they "know by heart." Of course, per Mittletwerk's request, they "Don't waiver." So they're sent in to recreate what happened on the show in an attempt to find a way to be able to push back armageddon again like they did before. Perhaps Dharma's other failure was not convincing those on the island that they needed to push the button. This would be a reason for a station like the Pearl, to make sure those in a station like the Swan were acting normally and were mentally sound enough to do their job. In the end, Dharma got spooked by the island and fell apart. Maybe thats the contamination they feared. I don't know.

So, anything that is in our reality (such as details of the show and TPTB's comments about it), would be dismissed, because in TLE's reality, the whole point of the show is to further THF, and Damon etc are tools of Alvar.

Sorry if this is ridiculous. It's late.

sexy baby mama

08-18-06, 03:01 PM

Okay, it's late and I just ate a hot pocket. And, this borrows from everyone, so thanks to anyone who posted above. But, what if the relationship between TLE and the show is entirely reversed. I think most people think that the show inspired TLE; rightfully so, in our reality it did. But what if in TLE's alternate reality, the events on the island inspired the show. For what purpose? To recruit new members to Dharma.
Hang in here with me. From this point on, I'm going to be speaking about TLE's alternate reality and not that of our own.

What if (in TLE's reality) the show was created by THF in order to recruit new members to Dharma?

That means that there would have been a different story of what happened on the island similar to and yet the origin of the show.

(The following is my own speculation and is my attempt to create a "real history" [real in TLE's alternate reality] that would be the basis for which THF created their fictional show, Lost.)

Okay, back in the 1970s, Dharma was created by the DeGroots and Alvar, and it failed. It's failure was the INCIDENT. Perhaps Dharma was attempting to find a way to delay the end of the world, but the INCIDENT was when they toyed around too closely with the magnetic field on the island and brought the end of the world sooner. At that point, perhaps the Valenzetti Equation changed, and it found that the world would end in 108 minutes if the action that the button triggers was not done. So, Armagedden could be put off forever as long as the button was pressed every 108 minutes. Now, if the button was not pressed, the world would end if the failsafe was not activated. Even if the failsafe was activated the world still would end in 4 years, 8 months, 15 days, 16 hours, 23 minutes, and 42 seconds from that point.

So for over 30 years, those Dharma loyalists stayed on the island pushing the button. THF and anyone else who knew about Dharma forgot about it, wanting to distance themselves from the failure. As long as they did their job, they were fine. But then, in 2004, they ran out of people. Perhaps it was from the terrors of the island, or even old age (time flowing differently on the island). So whoever was the last button-pusher, their final act before dying was to activate the failsafe, knowing they wouldn't be around long enough to push the button any more. The failsafe would notify THF that something was up.

So, in a desperate attempt to get more people on the island, THF creates Lost. Then, they monitor online message boards like this very one to find the most dedicated Losties. They then approach those people with a promise of knowledge, the knowledge that there is actually an island and that Dharma has run out of people and they need fresh blood in order to save the world. These recruits welcome the chance to save the world and sign up. They're shipped out to Sri Lanka and we're seeing them now, watching the Orientation but also being lectured by Mittletwerk afterwards on how to do better this time.

Now, we know that in TLE's reality, Rachel can interact with the actors who play characters on Lost, and she believes that they have blood on their hands (for taking part in a show meant to recruit new members to Dharma?). In TLE's reality, maybe the old members of Dharma were lost on the island, presumbably in the original INCIDENT. Perhaps her Mom was on the Island and died because of the INCIDENT. Obviously, this would be why Rachel had such a problem with TPTB at ComicCon, and why she claims that there's blood on their hands.

The new recruits will head to the island, and "keep up the story" that they "know by heart." Of course, per Mittletwerk's request, they "Don't waiver." So they're sent in to recreate what happened on the show in an attempt to find a way to be able to push back armageddon again like they did before. Perhaps Dharma's other failure was not convincing those on the island that they needed to push the button. This would be a reason for a station like the Pearl, to make sure those in a station like the Swan were acting normally and were mentally sound enough to do their job. In the end, Dharma got spooked by the island and fell apart. Maybe thats the contamination they feared. I don't know.

So, anything that is in our reality (such as details of the show and TPTB's comments about it), would be dismissed, because in TLE's reality, the whole point of the show is to further THF, and Damon etc are tools of Alvar.

Sorry if this is ridiculous. It's late.

I totally do not think this idea is ridiculous. I like your idea that the reason for the Lost TV show ties into the Lost Experience, and it still keeps "real" reality separate from "fake" reality. In my mind, that is a way we can accept what is happenning - we can enjoy the TV show and TLE without freaking out about which is the "real" one.

I can seriously see the TV ad now: "Would you like to be like Kate? Or Locke? Or perhaps even Jin? Clean slate, start over, do something meaningful. We ALL have something to give.

(By the way, I wasn't being sarcastic - I was serious....)

sin

08-18-06, 03:53 PM

They weren't the same person (same actor, different Inmans), I think they were twins or brothers.

Richardstone

08-18-06, 04:23 PM

They weren't the same person (same actor, different Inmans), I think they were twins or brothers.

It was the exact same person, Kelvin Joseph Inman played by Clancy Brown...

He was called Joe in earlier episodes so we would'nt guess he was Kelvin...

see you in the next life

08-18-06, 06:02 PM

SAME ACTOR

SAME PERSON on the show.

NOT TWIN BROTHERS.

andromana

08-18-06, 06:43 PM

Okay, it's late and I just ate a hot pocket. And, this borrows from everyone, so thanks to anyone who posted above. But, what if the relationship between TLE and the show is entirely reversed. I think most people think that the show inspired TLE; rightfully so, in our reality it did. But what if in TLE's alternate reality, the events on the island inspired the show. For what purpose? To recruit new members to Dharma.
Hang in here with me. From this point on, I'm going to be speaking about TLE's alternate reality and not that of our own.

What if (in TLE's reality) the show was created by THF in order to recruit new members to Dharma?
That means that there would have been a different story of what happened on the island similar to and yet the origin of the show.

(The following is my own speculation and is my attempt to create a "real history" [real in TLE's alternate reality] that would be the basis for which THF created their fictional show, Lost.)

Okay, back in the 1970s, Dharma was created by the DeGroots and Alvar, and it failed. It's failure was the INCIDENT. Perhaps Dharma was attempting to find a way to delay the end of the world, but the INCIDENT was when they toyed around too closely with the magnetic field on the island and brought the end of the world sooner. At that point, perhaps the Valenzetti Equation changed, and it found that the world would end in 108 minutes if the action that the button triggers was not done. So, Armagedden could be put off forever as long as the button was pressed every 108 minutes. Now, if the button was not pressed, the world would end if the failsafe was not activated. Even if the failsafe was activated the world still would end in 4 years, 8 months, 15 days, 16 hours, 23 minutes, and 42 seconds from that point.

So for over 30 years, those Dharma loyalists stayed on the island pushing the button. THF and anyone else who knew about Dharma forgot about it, wanting to distance themselves from the failure. As long as they did their job, they were fine. But then, in 2004, they ran out of people. Perhaps it was from the terrors of the island, or even old age (time flowing differently on the island). So whoever was the last button-pusher, their final act before dying was to activate the failsafe, knowing they wouldn't be around long enough to push the button any more. The failsafe would notify THF that something was up.

So, in a desperate attempt to get more people on the island, THF creates Lost. Then, they monitor online message boards like this very one to find the most dedicated Losties. They then approach those people with a promise of knowledge, the knowledge that there is actually an island and that Dharma has run out of people and they need fresh blood in order to save the world. These recruits welcome the chance to save the world and sign up. They're shipped out to Sri Lanka and we're seeing them now, watching the Orientation but also being lectured by Mittletwerk afterwards on how to do better this time.

Now, we know that in TLE's reality, Rachel can interact with the actors who play characters on Lost, and she believes that they have blood on their hands (for taking part in a show meant to recruit new members to Dharma?). In TLE's reality, maybe the old members of Dharma were lost on the island, presumbably in the original INCIDENT. Perhaps her Mom was on the Island and died because of the INCIDENT. Obviously, this would be why Rachel had such a problem with TPTB at ComicCon, and why she claims that there's blood on their hands.

The new recruits will head to the island, and "keep up the story" that they "know by heart." Of course, per Mittletwerk's request, they "Don't waiver." So they're sent in to recreate what happened on the show in an attempt to find a way to be able to push back armageddon again like they did before. Perhaps Dharma's other failure was not convincing those on the island that they needed to push the button. This would be a reason for a station like the Pearl, to make sure those in a station like the Swan were acting normally and were mentally sound enough to do their job. In the end, Dharma got spooked by the island and fell apart. Maybe thats the contamination they feared. I don't know.

So, anything that is in our reality (such as details of the show and TPTB's comments about it), would be dismissed, because in TLE's reality, the whole point of the show is to further THF, and Damon etc are tools of Alvar.

Sorry if this is ridiculous. It's late.

I really like where this is going!!!! Ever since reading up on some of TLE's threads, like Building the Story...", I have had this little itch in the back of my head that keeps telling me that this is what is happening.

Now, didn't either jj or someone else say:
Either at the end of the first half of episodes or somewhere during the second part of the season, there would be a real you know what moment that might make you think that Lost has jumped the shark. What if this moment, during a really intense scene, perhaps when someones life is in peril, you hear someone say "Cut" and then the camera pans back until you see all the cameras and actors standing around?

This would make you rethink everything you knew about Lost. And probably piss off a whole lot of people.

HansoLow

08-18-06, 06:46 PM

HugoDiet said:
Inman said something to the tune, "...oh yeah, join the Dharma Initiative..." as if mocking his decision to join Dharma.

There's something about this particular scene in the S2 finale that has bothered me since it aired.

When I first viewed this scene, I got the feeling that Inman was being very sarcastic about "his decision to join DHARMA". The feeling I got was that Inman was recruited in the same way that Desmond was...by crashing onto the island. The way I understood his speech about joining DHARMA, was that he "joined" because he really had no other choice. He might have been taken into the hatch by Radzinsky (sp?) the same way that he himself took in Desmond. And after almost ten years of being in the hatch and pushing that button, he was sort of making fun of the fact that he had "joined DHARMA".

Did anyone else get a feeling like this, or am I crazy? At the very least, does anyone see what I'm talking about?

(ps - sorry MODS if this is off topic for this thread)

sin

08-18-06, 07:09 PM

SAME ACTOR

SAME PERSON on the show.

NOT TWIN BROTHERS.

I got that from the post before it. I think your post was really unnecessary. Silly me for thinking that different names meant different people.

Richardstone

08-18-06, 08:05 PM

HugoDiet said:

There's something about this particular scene in the S2 finale that has bothered me since it aired.

When I first viewed this scene, I got the feeling that Inman was being very sarcastic about "his decision to join DHARMA". The feeling I got was that Inman was recruited in the same way that Desmond was...by crashing onto the island. The way I understood his speech about joining DHARMA, was that he "joined" because he really had no other choice. He might have been taken into the hatch by Radzinsky (sp?) the same way that he himself took in Desmond. And after almost ten years of being in the hatch and pushing that button, he was sort of making fun of the fact that he had "joined DHARMA".

Did anyone else get a feeling like this, or am I crazy? At the very least, does anyone see what I'm talking about?

(ps - sorry MODS if this is off topic for this thread)

I think Kelvin & Radzinski may have been the last people actually tasked to The Swan...

I definitely got the impression that Kelvin was recruited to DHARMA after leaving or being kicked out the military...

rvturnage

08-18-06, 08:14 PM

And they were broadcasting the result of The Valenzetti Equation, the figure that had to be verified, the time left until the apocalypse maybe?

:confused:

ETA:- Sorry I thought it was a Mittelwerk clip, what I said does'nt make sense if it was Alvar speaking, unless those numbers have been on the air for a long time?
I still wonder what they were broadcasting, even then...I'd have to assume the numbers, since Danielle said they had heard the numbers being broadcast when her ship wrecked...what, in 1988?

What would be important enough to broadcast out like that? What purpose would broadcasting the numbers have?

Richardstone

08-18-06, 08:20 PM

I still wonder what they were broadcasting, even then...I'd have to assume the numbers, since Danielle said they had heard the numbers being broadcast when her ship wrecked...what, in 1988?

What would be important enough to broadcast out like that? What purpose would broadcasting the numbers have?

Lenny and Sam heard them too...

The result of the equation would be pretty important would'nt it?

Perhaps the equation was solved long ago on the island and Mittelwerk has had the savants running it to verify that the numbers they picked up are correct, that the results are the same...

And now....they have to take radical action....

rvturnage

08-18-06, 08:30 PM

Lenny and Sam heard them too...

The result of the equation would be pretty important would'nt it?

Perhaps the equation was solved long ago on the island and Mittelwerk has had the savants running it to verify that the numbers they picked up are correct, that the results are the same...

And now....they have to take radical action....

But Hanso should have the result of the equation. He certainly speaks as if he does (on Valenzetti: "His results are chilling, and attention must be paid.").

It seems to me that they knew the results of the equation (the date/time of the end of manking), and they were researching a way to stop it from occuring. Or, if that's not possible, perhaps Hanso took the approach of devising a way to save mankind from itself.

Even if they didn't know the equation, why broadcast the results once they figured them out?

ETA: you're right...I forgot about Sam and Lenny...do we have a time frame for when they heard the numbers being broadcast?

Richardstone

08-18-06, 08:45 PM

But Hanso should have the result of the equation. He certainly speaks as if he does (on Valenzetti: "His results are chilling, and attention must be paid.").

It seems to me that they knew the results of the equation (the date/time of the end of manking), and they were researching a way to stop it from occuring. Or, if that's not possible, perhaps Hanso took the approach of devising a way to save mankind from itself.

Even if they didn't know the equation, why broadcast the results once they figured them out?

ETA: you're right...I forgot about Sam and Lenny...do we have a time frame for when they heard the numbers being broadcast?

Good point, they know the results, hence DHARMA...

(scratches head)

I think Sam & Lenny heard the exact same transmission as Danielle...

MARTHA: Sam and Leonard were stationed at a listening post monitoring long wave transmissions out of the Pacific. Boring job. Sam hated it, nothing to do but listen to static night after night. Until one night, about 16 years ago, there's something in the static, a voice comes through, a voice repeating those numbers over and over again. A couple of days later we're at the fair in Kalgoorlie and some wally there has got this jar, must have been big as a pony, and it's filled to the rim with beans. Fella's offering 50 grand to anyone able to guess how many beans are in that jar, within 10.