Ethan/Rom/Hybrid/comic

[jaystao]

PLEASE Forgive me if this has come up already....

This is for those who feel for the purgatory/genetic/multi-dimension arguments.

At one point Ethan refers to himself with the last name ROM. I mention this because comic book references have come up in the series quite often. Rom was a super hero type guardian in a marvel comic book called, ROM space knight. He was an alien robotic creature designated with the task of combating the dire wraiths. The Dire wraiths were psychic demon/entities from another dimension of pure chaos (LIMBO) who were trying to break into our world. They could control their molecular body structure to look like human beings (or anything really). Rom who could sense their evil and true form, had a ray gun that could banish them back to limbo.....

.... So far quite interesting however it gets better....

In the last series of ROM he encounters the X-men and an evil entity known as Hybrid. Hybrid was an amalgamation between the mating of a Dire Wraith in human form with an earth women. This wraith after having infiltrated humanity for some time had learned human qualities such as love which overcame it's evil wraith nature. However the offspring of this unholy union despite the best nurturing of the two parents created the evil entity of HYBRID who eventually mutated both genetic lineages to become something greater and far more evil in nature. Killing both his parents he confronted ROM who's weapon was only barely able to effect it.

HYBRID could control peoples perceptions of reality and appeared in the form of his child earthly guise. He could also control the weather at whim and had powerful psychic abilities. At this point it becomes a cross over as the X-men turn up looking for a newly born mutant of great power.

They find ROM attacking a small child (HYBRID). Thinking that he is the evil one they attack him instead and Hybrid uses this deception for the X-men to do his dirty work. Eventually he shows his true colors and the X-men and ROM defeat HYBRID but ROM is struck by his own weapon and banished to LIMBO.

....Interesting.

[Chance Gardener]

Deleted to promote harmony.




I like to watch

[jaystao]

Not to up to date with Ethan as I haven't seen all the shown episodes yet. However I was more interested with the idea that the perception of Ethan might of been construed and this was being referenced by the creators (many marvel/x-men fans probably would have picked it up).

There was some talk about Ethan being the good guy and that the child may have in some way been bad (anti-Christ/diseased/Caliban syndrome). Maybe Ethan was protecting them and it only seemed like he was a 'bad guy'. I find this a little bit hard to swallow as Ethan just seemed so.... creepy. But this comic book issue brings up all sorts of tie-ins which relate to theories of this show if in allegory only and ties strongly with the alien X comic reference.

[Chance Gardener]

Deleted to promote harmony.




I like to watch

[joepa15425]

But I think Ethan was human, a normally created zygote based human


Don't think there is anything involving limbo or purgatory with the story,

I understand that some of us see the glass as half empty and others see it half full. But I'm perplexed by your thinking. Ethan has seemed anything but normal. Rather he was/is portrayed in a mechanical almost ultra-robotic fashion. So from what I've seen he appears anything but normal. As for your other line of thought. What show are you watching? Events are played out in real time like Boone and Shannon running, and Kate not seeing Ethan, Jack's dead father leading Jack to the caves, and on and on. Then, still in real time every event ends in redemption or soul saving, or something like that, as if they are all being tested.
So, I'm sorry if this post sounds more abrupt than I intended, but I'm just watching TV, and until the I see things differently, i.e. sci-fi-ish, then limbo/purgatory is VERY VERY rational, plausible, and unmistakably similar conclusion one can come to (ignoring the writers attempts to be literal in their denials, i.e., it's not the catholic purgatory or something like that).

I realize a lot disagree, and the moderators can't close those posts that hints at purgatory fast enough, so those who do agree are afraid to say so. But have you ever wondered why new posters and casual viewers of the show all seem to think they are in purgatory? It's because the show is written in a way that reminds of them or can be explained by SOME SORT OF purgatory.

Then somebody posts their thoughts, they get flamed, laughed at, and censored, so they say oh, ok, maybe it's spinning neutrinos in the water, and the island is some sort of giant particle accelerator, and the water has LSD, and the people all act the way they do because they are still in shock, and they see things because they are all exhausted, and Charlie isn't a bad junkie cause he was in LOTR, and even though Kate shoots people, I'd still take her to the 7th grade sock hop, and blah blah blah.

Ok the blah's weren't needed, I admit.

[Chance Gardener]

Deleted to promote harmony.




I like to watch

[jaystao]

Got know problems with the Purgatory theory though I think that like most, if not all, of the theories on this board it has problems. The LIMBO/ROM idea was interesting though ROM was trying to stop the wraiths from entering our world by banishing them back to LIMBO, the action didn't play out in limbo (though that's where he ended up). The idea of HYBRID however is interesting cause it ties in with the whole Clair/baby/Alex/Daniel - nurture/nature themes of the show. Like wise the fact that the x-men are being used by Hybrid to slay his enemy ROM by using a gun (which is what Charlie does to Ethan). Finally the x-men reference I put a strong emphasis on because they were a team of super heroes who's powers were 'genetically' based. As mutants they were learning to use and control their powers. Similarly they used their skills most often as a team, combining their talents to overcome evil. They all had various flaws and virtues that sometimes conflicted but most often complimented their group. Each individual had a past and secrets that some times came back to haunt them. I'm just thinking that maybe they are being used or influenced by two major forces on the island the Hybrid/disease/Military/Alex/evil???? and the ROM/Ethan/entity/Others. Where their powers and skills are being honed in this battle.

[mspibb]

they aren't always duplicate posts, and you know that. my goodness, if all the posts were treated like that, there'd only be like 5 posts total on the board. You know each week new topics are brought up because of the new episodes. So your arguement is weak and one sided.

[joepa15425]

I get the sense from your post that since I disagree with the initial post, that I am mean, or an ass (I assure you, this is NOT the reason I am an ass), or dismissive. It means I disagree.

I don't think you are an ass at all. In fact I like your posts, and if I seem like an ass, it's because even though I like your posts, I do disagree.

On this one I was just calling you on it. I mean you can't have it both ways. You can't see one thing then say, well, I disagree. All i was saying was, seeing is believing, and the show written as it is now, is much easier to explain by the writings and acting through a purgatory like experience. If you can't see that, then you are in denial. If the mass majority of viewers and reviewers didn't see the show as a purgatory like show, then why would the writers feel it important to state emphatically it's not Purgatory (the catholic variety with dead people trying to get to heaven, which is the official purgatory thread you refer to, which I don't think it has to be).

I realize Jay wasn't advocating a purgatory theory. His post was different. But it differs in the catholic sense of purgatory, why oh why can't purgatory have a generic meaning as well, like say umm....Klennex. We all know that Klennex is a brand name of tissue paper, but it's come to mean just about anything we blow our nose into.

Your offical purgatory thread is like the brand name Klennex, and not all purgatory posts are like that, sometimes we're just talking tissue paper.

Of course this is merely an opinion, I'd not think twice about buying you a beer and discussing it all nite with you even if on some points we disagree.

I do agree with mspibb a little. The official purgatory thread statement makes it sound like there's no digressing from it. When in fact most of the theories now are an amalgamation of many theories brought about by new developments in the series.

[jaystao]

An islands purgatory cause there ain't no where to 'go'. Any baggage you have is what you bring with you, everything else is what you make of it. But theres polar bears on this island! What crazy whodunit brought them on the trip? And how did they pass them through customs? Regardless I don't think most theories adequately explain this, even fear manifestation (who's actually afraid of polar bears?).

As for the 'discussion' well.... This thread is about a possible fairly flimsy reference to a comic book, I mean, who cares what you talk about as long as you reference it to that original concept....

[joepa15425]

An islands purgatory cause there ain't no where to 'go'. Any baggage you have is what you bring with you, everything else is what you make of it.

That's my point Jay. If you posted that paragraph alone, you would be scolded, told to go to the official purgatory thread, and your post would be locked. Even though your post has nothing to do with dead people. In fact, we should test it, i bet before 4 people read it, it will be locked.

[joepa15425]

But theres polar bears on this island!

Yes there are, but how have they been used? First to make us go WTF, then to bring Walt and Michael and perhaps Locke together. it's called redemption, not here's how the bears got here. Mysticism/philosophy/religion, not science. That's all I'm saying if they keep writing the show like it's Touched by an Angel, then, that's how I'll see it. If they write it like X-Files I'll see it that way. I won't just say, I see Touched by an Angel, but I think it's X-Files and everybody else can go to (the official) hell because i can use zygote in a sentence.

[thoughtform]

This sounds very interesting and I would not be surprised if the writers are familiar with the comic also. So far it seems to fit almost exactly with Lost's story. However, I find Locke to be a closer fit with the ability to change weather and the like. I really do see alot of similarities between the two stories. This was a great post, Jays tao!

[jaystao]

O.k. I don't resent the fact your talking about limbo/purgatory/dream walkabouts/redemption or whatever.

It's just that it needs to be referenced in some way to the original discussion. The comic book arc, Ethan et el. As the protagonist I'll appease you some what with this memory of an image of this limbo the comic presented. And it must be noted that limbo had a more of a demonic/folk lorish sense to it. But in the last page they had ROM falling through LIMBO and it seemed to be made up of empty space that was filled with.... islands.

If Ethan (Ether?) is some kind of reference to ROM and Rom is a guardian of doorways (super natural or natural), a protector of the 'earth' and it must be said he was fairly one sided and fanatical in his quest, then where did he come from? And whats his story whether its purgatory/another dimension/dream space or he's a super 'hippie'.

I'm of to read more on ROM and see if there are any other references but I just thought the topic was tropical.

[thoughtform]

I agree with you. I think that Locke fits into the HYBRID category and that everyone thinks Ethan is bad when it may actually be Locke who is making himself look good to everyone for evil purposes. I dont think that Locke is alone in his body or mind or something. Its as if he is "possessed" or overshadowed. Like a symbiote?

[jaystao]

To sound redundant like a hybrid of some sort (he does seem to have some power over the rain). The only problem I have with that is that I quite like Lockes character I'd hate to see him fall in as villain toooo quickly. He's got a lot of 'evil' medaling to do. Actually I don't trust any of them, they're all suspect. Regardless it's only a possible reference and may even be a false one at that but is worth mentioning. It does poke avenues into how things could be perceived however in the Ethan/Clair plot line.... Why didn't he just kill Charlie strait off? Why drag him all the way to the 'memory draining' trees anyway? Likewise Ethan could have just killed the Dr. Maybe Charlie saw something he shouldn't have. He wanted the survivors alive at least either morally or as a means to some ends? So maybe he aint that bad.

[thoughtform]

Maybe Charlie refused to believe that Locke would hurt the baby or Claire? Because Locke helped Charlie and now he is loyal to Locke? I think that we are being misled to believe that Ethan is evil because it helps out with Lockes ulterior motives. Which is to have the loyalty of the survivors he feels he needs, so they think that they are on the side of good when in fact they are the pawns of the "island or monster".

[Chance Gardener]

Deleted to promote harmony.




I like to watch

[sawyerhasbestlines]

Jays tao,

Another great post. I never knew about a comic book character with the name ROM. That helps to shed a little more light, on the mysterious Ethan.

---------------------------------
CG, (yawn) yes you are allowed to disagree. But sometimes, shutting down a person's post or hijacking them with compounding disagreements, creates an authoritative tone (reminds me of Charles, from M.A.S.H) and sometimes the effect is a killjoy for the rest of us who are interested in the topic and want it to take off. Not everyone is interested in a debates; or wants a burgeoning idea worthy of exploration, quickly swepped under the carpet of tedious polarization.

Jays tao has great perceptions and insights, and frankly has been contributing the most interesting stuff to this forum lately and I want to see this person's posts thrive and not be smothered out.

-------------------------------

Regarding polar bears, until something better comes along, I'm in the belief, that they were either on Danielle's research vessel or a barge of zoo animals crashed near there.

[joepa15425]

In other words, what Sawyerhasthebestlines is saying is, "Lighten up Francis".

[jaystao]

Thank you for the support SHBL's. I'm still fairly new here so I'm not that wise with some of the more 'heated' debates but as to CG's comments I cant say i disagree with him it's just that I wasn't putting this out as a theory per say, just as an interesting side note to theories in general.

I can't find the comic book (alas my comic reading days have dwindled greatly as they have all transformed miraculously into bills and bank statements) but there is something that might be learned by ROMS fate. Rom was a limited series, it only lasted maybe 25 or something issues and became slightly revered because it simply put an end to itself like a Greek tragedy (any one remember Blake seven?). ROM's mission was to Banish the Dire wraiths but he himself became banished by his own gun no less. His act was one of sacrifice as he was saving one of the X-men at the time. The story was fairly simple and was remembered quite fondly by fans because it did it's run so to speak and then took it's bow. The x-men however, though far more successful became convoluted with unresolved story threads, increasingly complex twists, multiple character developments and dozens of cross-overs and spin offs that just turned into some kind of perpetual purgatory that lost the plot with no rescue ship in sight. Fans were reduced to remembering the glory days or hoping for some kind of visionary concept that would redeem it somehow (which after the movies were released occurred with a sort of re-interpreting the past series of books). Just my oppinion of coarse.

For the moment the island is great, lets live in purgatory/fantastic island for ever dude! But that could eventually turn into Cr#p hole island real fast if we don't start seeing some real progress with these plot devices... The Polar bear is driving me nuts! Genius JJ. Still early days however and maybe I should learn some patience as my redeeming quality before I jump to conclusions:)

[joepa15425]

TO JAY:

I thought your post was awesome. I never jumped into the previous ethan rom speculations cause i never felt too comfortable with the ethan frome's, other mans, and all the other theories (although, I did suggest not assuming he's the typical villain). They all seemed too simple Your thoughts are much more promising. I barely had time to let your post sink in when wham, it was already being thrown out because somebody thinks....xyz...., lol. I didn't like they way your post was dismissed or should I say, I prefer follow up to new posts that offer opinions in the opine form rather than in the I know better form--if that makes any sense. You see, when others start to read your post and the next post is somewhat negative then they skip it and figure it's not worth thinking about or exploring (that's why I'm playing devil's advocate with the whole purgatory angle). The time taken to reply to your post was pretty quick, so i just imagined the repliers didn't have time to think about it either. They have their own agenda and anybody who posts contrary to theirs gets slammed. I hate that.

I spent the few spare minutes of my time today, trying to track down the comic book you referred to. I'd like to be more informed before I comment on it. If you have any more, post it, i'm interested in this.

[hppydppy1]

far out jays tao....too cool and i am all for it. do you think possibly, that ethan is related to danielle? possibly her son? she said she killed him and her husband because they were "diseased" by the "others". so could he be a knock off of her son? (uh oh, that clone thing again.) making him not human? and is claire's baby like "rosemary's baby"? was the comic book walt read look anything like the one you are referring to? if this rom story had been made into a tv series as it was originally written...as a sci-fi story...then i think it would not have flown. too many sci-fi stories on tv now. so j.j. thought...let's make it about people on an island and then they made it into "lost". eerie how this fits.

[joepa15425]

huh? you didn't bump this one? shame on you J's GF.

[jaystao]

Good to see you back joepa15425 if it was you who bumbed this, but well, there seems to be no more added ??. Anyway I continued the debate in regards to this subject in the Limbo thread so I didn't add anymore. Why has this been brought back???/

Ah, I see it was you Chancegardener. Then the questions is, why are you deleting your posts to create harmony, and what harmony are you creating by doing so? Your 'disharmony' seems to be far more insightful in my oppinion.

[sawyerhasbestlines]

A classic rescued from page 51

(one of Jays first posts)

All purgatory lovin noobs should take a look at this thread - a precursor to his Limbo thread, and where is that? It's an interesting take on Ethan's name connection to comic books.