+ Vincent is Walt's Familiar [Archive]

drabauer

01-20-05, 04:23 AM

As much as I hate to delve into paranormal explanations for anything that occurs on LOST, it's time to admit that Vincent acts as Walt's familiar, in the occult sense of "A spirit (usually in animal form) that acts as an assistant to a witch or wizard." Now that doesn't mean that Vincent is literally a spirit in animal form, or that Walt is a wizard, but Vincent likely channels Walt's ability in some way.

Brian told Michael that Walt was special, but Vincent was Brian's dog. There is significance in Brian giving Vincent to Walt--maybe he was genuinely afraid of Walt, or maybe he felt that Vincent wasn't really his anymore--that he had formed a bond with Michael.

I don't have an answer for Walt's disturbing lack of affect in reference to the dead bird and his mom's passing, unless we resort to PTSD. It's possible that Walt's ability is meant to represent a kind of autism--as with autistic savants like Temple Grandin, he forgoes empathy and emotional connection for some kind of sixth sense. Although that seems an odd dramatic choice to make given that so far he has been presented as an average 10-year old.

KyleSBeaver

01-20-05, 05:10 AM

I thought that Brian never really gave Vincent to Walt, but Michael said that he could bring him, and was like "What do I care about this Brian guy? I'm giving his dog to my son." when he found out it was really Brian's.

Also, wasn't Shannon's boyfriend named Bryan, as well?

ooooOOooo.....eerie

nova chrombot

01-20-05, 05:35 AM

Didn't brian just leave and then also leave Walt and the Dog behind?

Madness11

01-20-05, 12:22 PM

I interpreted Michael's actions/dialogue, re: leaving with Vincent, to mean they just take Vincent without Brian's consent. It is not like Brian just took off and left - no reason to leave behind a million dollar house - he was just making himself absent from any goodbyes with Walt.

drabauer

01-20-05, 04:33 PM

Regardless of whether Vincent was given explicitly or not, the point is that he has been a conduit in all of Walt's "happenings."

Which is exactly the function of a 'familiar.'

Master Lost Theories & Speculation Index (http://www.swedishpoet.com/lostindex.html)

Abraxas

01-20-05, 05:34 PM

Hey, that's it! It's Vincent. He is special in combination with Walt. Or maybe just he is special, at all. The bird coming to Vincent would make sense, I'd say.
Why didn't I think of this before?

sawyerhasbestlines

01-21-05, 01:44 AM

There is a word (that's driving me nuts and I can't remember) I think it starts with a P.

Anyway, in dream symbolism, a dog functions as a GUIDE for the person. And I think the animal/dog has the ability to go back and forth between the underworld and the real world.

I think it's also in therepy terminology, Drabauer????

spooky

01-23-05, 06:58 AM

I like this idea. It's weird how intently Walt is staring at Vincent in the "bird" scene. It seems like he's almost in a trance, or communicating. There's definitely a huge connection between Walt and Vincent, and there were a lot of shots/mentions of Vincent in this episode. Maybe to make us think he's Vincent-the-shape-shifting-dog, or maybe just to make it clear that he's important to the ongoing story. Maybe he was some kind of exchange for Claire. I tend to think that there's more to Vincent than meets the eye as there were a bunch of weird things in the Pilot. At the very least, I bet that Walt knows more about his own "powers" than he lets on.

In any case, dr, it reminds me of a YA trilogy I read called His Dark Materials by Philip Pullman where everyone had an animal that was like a familiar. In the books, only a child's "familiar" was able to change shape (in animal forms), and when the child reached adulthood the "familiar" took a permanent shape. The "familiar" also guided and protected the child.

It was sort of a metaphor for the soul. Whatever was inside a person was made manifest in their familiar. The villians in the story were trying to "cut" the familar from the children to get their power. Lots of interesting stuff about the nature of childhood, loss of innocence, and plain old good vs. evil. A thousand times better than Harry Potter, IMO, and with a tough, young female protagonist, though my son loved it, thorougly.

kimjoy85

01-23-05, 07:03 AM

Wow, good points.

But one thing I'd like to point out, everytime Walt 'dreams up' a polar bear vincent is no were to be found.

Abraxas

01-24-05, 12:44 AM

Right before Walt is getting the knife on target there's a shot back to Vincent. Like those two are connected.
Btw...when the leash drops after Vincent runs away you could make wierd theories (time chaos, see other threads) or you could simply say their connection - represented by the leash - is cut.
Something like that.

JacksGirlfriend

01-24-05, 01:49 AM

Hi Brax - Knew I'd find you here eventually.

JacksGirl

drabauer

01-24-05, 02:53 AM

Abraxas, you are right! When Vincent is with Walt, the latter gets his way. But when he disappears, Walt is in trouble, that is, he's normal, he can't make the bear go away.

leftofpunk

01-24-05, 06:33 AM

Remember that there were bears before the current plane crash. Danielle mentions something about "one of the bears" remember?

Abraxas

01-24-05, 10:34 PM

In reality, I would really like it the most if I could say neither Walt nor Vincent are special, but after what Damon Lindelof said...I don't have a chance, I must go crazy. |I
So yes, I say Vincent is the Special.

soup

01-25-05, 02:31 AM

This may be far fetched, but Vincent ran away, vanishing into thin air, and then there was a polar bear. After the bear took off, they(Locke,etc.) continued looking for Vincent.

Perhaps Walt's powers cannot "create" a polar bear, but can alter a current state of similiar matter into a different state to serve a subconscious desire(Locke and Michael cooperating)

???

edens demise

01-25-05, 02:34 PM

When I first saw the title of this thread I thought it said, Vincent is Walt's father.

Now that would have been interesting....

jcrew1179

02-13-05, 04:46 PM

Yeah, I definately think that the Polar Bears were on the island before the Survivors and this is proven when Danielle says it may be one of the bears. Walt or Vincent definately cannot create/transform into other animals. I definately think that Walt's power is tied to Vincent and that somehow Vincent magnifies Walt's powers or carries out his wishes.

The first Polar Bear that attacked Michael's group, could Walt/Vincent have been upset at Michael and wanted Michael dead - that is perhaps why the Polar bear attacked. Its obvious that Walt did not want to leave Brian or Australia and does not even know/trust Michael.

Again, with the 2nd polar bear, perhaps Vincent knew that Michael would try to save Walt and really wanted the polar bear to kill Michael.

Whatever the "Special" connection that Walt and Vincent have it is definately not rooted in "science" and I don't think the writers can possibly explain it in a scientific way.

LostInWilderness

12-06-05, 01:36 AM

Then he was Shannon and Walt's conduit. I wonder what Vincent is up to now.

sugarlibby

12-06-05, 01:53 AM

When I first saw the title of this thread I thought it said, Vincent is Walt's father.

Now that would have been interesting....

I wouldn't put it past this board to come up with that!:p

sawyerhasbestlines

12-11-05, 12:27 AM

I guess we are in store for a regular animal farm and perhaps Kate's familiar is the horse, and Sawyer's - the boar. Interesting they are all animals out of chinese astrology.

drabauer

12-11-05, 04:58 AM

boonian androphile

12-11-05, 10:41 AM

sawyer meticulous? he did hoard all his scavenged island debris. plus cons require a certain attention to detail. like the boars he rooted through piles of unclaimed goods.

the dog seems an obvious connection to Walt. Walt has always been observant and critical---in a 10 year old way.

the horse naturally matches Kate. the connection to taming a wild beast that will not be tamed. I dont see anyone domesticating that horse! nor controlling that woman.

have we seen other animals? besides the polar bear, fish and a gigantic bird?

drabauer

12-11-05, 05:38 PM

Well boonian,

the new picture at mrclucks.com AND KCPS.com feature a tee-shirt with a prominant American Buffalo on it

Might that be the representation of the "ox"? Hmmmmmmm

majestictragedy

12-12-05, 08:00 PM

LostInWilderness

12-13-05, 03:53 AM

Drabauer listed:

Dog - watchful - Walt (Shannon?)
I don't see Shannon as watchful. She was too selfish. But then again, after walt gave her Vincent, she changed.
Pig - meticulous, resigned - Sawyer (resigned, yes, but meticulous?)
I think a guy preying on women to take their money is a pig.
Horse - physically active - Kate
Kate joins every trek and activity on the island, but I prefer the sexual symbolism myself.
Rooster - showy, confident - Ana?
The TSS killed a chicken, or was it a rooster?
Rat - talkative - Charlie?
I don't know about talkative, but otherwise it's perfect.
Snake - philosophical - Locke? Eko?
I think it fits Locke in a dual meaning.

princeofamerica

12-13-05, 04:22 AM

Yes, great point SHBL. Some predictions may be in order, based on the characteristics associated with each:

Dog - watchful - Walt (Shannon?)
Pig - meticulous, resigned - Sawyer (resigned, yes, but meticulous?)
Horse - physically active - Kate
Rooster - showy, confident - Ana?
Rat - talkative - Charlie?
Ox - serious, hard-working - Jin? Michael?
Tiger - honourable - Sayid? Eko?
Rabbit - cautious - Claire?
Goat - artistic - Michael? Charlie?
Snake - philosophical - Locke? Eko?
Monkey - spirited - Hurley?
Dragon - outspoken - Jack?

Your opinions?

I think if Charlie is anything, he's a Moth. There was a whole show called the Moth about Charlie. And Jin is obviously connected to Fish. He's a fisherman. He's known for fish. On that note, what do you all think about the Lostaways being helped by the animals? Maybe that explains how Jin didn't drown. The Shark or fish could have helped him to shore, as he did not have a raft to hold on to. Otherside why didn't he become lunch for the Shark? Maybe we'll see each character get a more animal-centric episode in the future.

LostInWilderness

04-13-06, 02:48 AM

Bump in honor of the all too infrequent Vincent sighting. Is Sawyer the next to see Walt?

boonian androphile

04-13-06, 03:16 AM

Bump in honor of the all too infrequent Vincent sighting. Is Sawyer the next to see Walt?

If he keeps feeding Vincent then perhaps. Although with Michael back, father and dog may team up to find their mutual kid.

mister-ben

04-17-06, 03:46 AM

If this is an altered or virtual reality Vincent could be scientist in virtual or hypnotic disguise. After all who calls their dog Vincent. Unless the name Vincent is relevant somehow. Vincent knows but he ain't telling.

drabauer

05-18-06, 11:56 PM

Vincent brought the Virgin Mary back to Charlie to tempt him. Instead, Charlie made a definitive statement; in that Vincent seemed to adopt both Locke (season 1) and Ecko-like positions towards Charlie: tempting him, but allowing him to confirm his resolve through once again rejecting heroin. But there was more revealed - now everyone will know where Sawyer's stash was, and what else might be in it.

Everywhere Vincent goes, revelation follows.

LQ Jones

05-19-06, 05:01 AM

Everywhere Vincent goes, revelation follows.
Well, except for Shannon.
It's almost as though Charlie had to come completely clean before finishing the church...

LostInWilderness

05-19-06, 05:17 AM

Everywhere Vincent goes, revelation follows. I agree with this, but Vincent seemed to play a different role in Three Minutes. In this instance, he seemed more an agent of the island than of Walt or any other character. This is a new development, imo.

Is Charlie the new recipient of the visions of Walt?

drabauer

05-19-06, 11:44 AM

I agree LiW. Vince is no longer Walt's familiar, but belongs to the island. Charlie as visoneer would be an interesting development, especially as he's currently between gurus.

see you in the next life

05-19-06, 12:51 PM

athywithak

05-20-06, 07:44 PM

I was looking for a Vincent thread to post this in, and decided to go here:

Shannon had Vincent. She died. Almost led to her death by following first Vincent then visions of Walt.

Ana Lucia had been feeding Vincent, now she is dead.

><

Also does anyone think the open packet of cookies Vincent was snacking on in Sawyer's tent may show human manipulation of the dog in that Charlie statue instance? Is Sawyer dumb enough to leave open food on a wild island?

K

spooky

05-20-06, 10:03 PM

I agree LiW. Vince is no longer Walt's familiar, but belongs to the island. Charlie as visoneer would be an interesting development, especially as he's currently between gurus.
Charlie "between gurus" may be the best development ever. Charlie's always been sort of stradling worlds, both pre and post island. I would love to Vincent as Charlie's familiar. As long as Charlie doesn't revert back to joke-a-minute-I'm-too-cute hobbit boy. It would be nice to see him finally land with two feet in one place.

Vincent has probably always belonged to the Island.

snakey

05-21-06, 02:15 AM

Previously I thought of Vincent as Walt's right hand man, but now I'm thinking it's the other way around. The weirdest thing is that Vincent was Brian's dog, that must mean something in the reveal that might not ever come if they keep dragging things out. There's always a chance a show could get canceled and the way they are talking about a 5 year run, if it gets canceled you know what creek we'll be up.

LostInWilderness

05-21-06, 04:40 AM

Maybe Walt was able to "present himself" to Shannon because he gave Vincent to her. I've been the champion of that idea for a year. But Three Minutes was different. Vincent enabled Charlie to kick his habit independent of any other lostaway. If the island demanded a sacrifice from Charlie, Vincent was the agent of the island. After Charlie drowned his addiction, Claire held his hand. Maybe Vincent has always been an agent of the island, but he hasn't been portrayed that way. He's always been associated with Walt then Shannon. In Three Minutes, Vincent was portrayed as an agent of the island itself.

LostInWilderness

09-15-06, 01:45 AM

What will happen to Vincent if Walt escapes? If he's an agent of the island - nothing, but if he's an agent of the island, why was he so tightly coupled to Walt?

IMLOSTRU?

09-15-06, 06:01 PM

What will happen to Vincent if Walt escapes? If he's an agent of the island - nothing, but if he's an agent of the island, why was he so tightly coupled to Walt?

Perhaps since Vincent seems to conveniently disappear in S2 whenever Walt and Michael (owners in some respect) are around, his work is done with them?

interplanetjanet

09-15-06, 09:17 PM

Maybe Walt was able to "present himself" to Shannon because he gave Vincent to her. Maybe Sayid was able to see Walt because he was with Shannon at the time. Just a small thought. Perhaps Michael's abilities are limited in this way. Otherwise, why not present himself to Michael and say, "hey dad, get me the heck out of here?"
Walt was much closer to the dog than to Michael, I think. If you were supposed to "feel" for someone familiar, Vincent seems the best choice. Then maybe Locke.

Z054J

09-16-06, 12:57 AM

I don't think the nature of Walt's powers have anything to do with the dog. Walt's ability seems to pertain most to his own will. When he wants something and he's in the right state of mind, it frequently happens. Note the arrival of the bird or his dice rolls in backgammon as incidental/accidental instances. Note the perfect knife throw as a cultivated instance. If he visualizes it, it comes to pass. Yet, he does not materialize something from nothing. The bird was not an alien bird to Australia. The dice did not roll anything that wasn't possible to roll, etc. It seems sort of like psychokinesis, but on a sweeping scale. Michael tells Walt that he will go and look for Vincent as soon as it stops raining. What happens immediately after he speaks?

The dog is as irrelevant as it is poorly-trained.

LostInWilderness

09-16-06, 04:28 PM

Z054J

09-16-06, 04:43 PM

Poorly trained?

Vincent pulls Shannon into scary scenarios so she'll see visions of Walt, and you call that poorly trained? Vincent either has his own agenda, or he's carrying out the agenda of someone else. There's no poorly trained about it.

The dog-as-actor = poorly-trained. He constantly looks at his trainer/handler and seldom actually interacts with the human actors.

Vincent just pulled Shannon period. He's a dog. He was following his nose. Dogs are stupid. They don't participate in plots.

island_maverick

09-16-06, 04:48 PM

Poorly trained?

Vincent pulls Shannon into scary scenarios so she'll see visions of Walt, and you call that poorly trained? Vincent either has his own agenda, or he's carrying out the agenda of someone else. There's no poorly trained about it.
Yeah, completely.

When Charlie was dealt a kick in the teeth after Eko bombed him out on the church construction project, he was showing signs of feeling depressed when Vincent bounded up with a Virgin Mary statue full of heroin and dropped it at his feet. He then led Charlie to Sawyer's stash where there were several other statues hidden.

Charlie resisted the urge to indulge himself, instead choosing to toss the lot in the ocean. In that respect, Vincent either wanted Charlie to revert back to his old habits or was merely setting him a test. Either way, Vincent's actions were not those of a dumb mutt stumbling along by accident, they were more likely the result of some form of training or prompting by someone or something else.

AreYouLost?

09-26-06, 02:40 AM

I always thought Vincent to be a kind of replacement for anyone who was missing someone...or had lost someone...ie...Walt got Vincent after his mom died, then when he left he left the dog to Shannon after Boone died, Sun aslo helped Shannon take care of Vincent and after Shannon died Sun did take care of him by herself (Jin of course was on the other side of the island)... I dunno I'm sure the dog has other reasons for being on the island, but I deffinately think the dog is a "good guy" anyway this little tid-bit supports my theory just a little bit.

LOCKE [making coffee]: My sister, Jeanie, died when I was a boy. Fell off the monkey bars and broke her neck. And my mother, well, my foster mother, she blamed herself, of course -- thought she wasn't watching close enough. So, she stopped eating, stopped sleeping. The neighbors started talking, afraid she might do something to herself, I guess. [Sipping coffee] Oh, that's good. Anyway, about 6 months after Jeanie's funeral this golden retriever comes padding up our driveway, walks right into our house, sits down on the floor, and looks right at my mother, there on the couch. And my mother looks back at the dog. After about a minute of this, of them both staring at each other like that, my mother burst into tears. Beautiful dog, no tags, no collar, healthy, and sweet. The dog slept in Jeanie's old room, on Jeanie's old bed and stayed with us until my mother passed 5 years later. Then, disappeared back to wherever it was she came from in the first place.
KATE: So, you're saying the dog was your sister?
LOCKE: Well, that would be silly. But my mother thought it was, thought that Jeanie had come back to tell her the accident wasn't her fault, let her off the hook.

AreYouLost?

09-26-06, 02:42 AM

I also have a theory that all of those virgin mary statues that Charlie threw into the ocean are going to return...just like the messages in the bottle and just like Desmond...

LostInWilderness

09-26-06, 02:56 AM

Walt got Vincent after his mom died
Walt had Vincent before his mom died.

AreYouLost?

09-27-06, 01:58 AM

Walt did not have Vincent before his mom died...it was his step-father's dog...Brian.

LostInWilderness

09-27-06, 03:08 AM

Semantics. Kids and dogs go together, and Walt and Vincent had lived together for a long while.

AreYouLost?

09-27-06, 10:32 PM

MICHAEL: Walt, can I? [indicating he's like to set the box and envelope down, which he does]. I know this is really hard to understand. All of this. See Brian, Brian loves you very much. He wants you to stay with him, but it's not his choice. It's mine. I'm your legal guardian. And it's not like he's going to disappear from your life. He'll still call you, write to you, come to see you whenever he can. You know, you'll still have your dog.
WALT: But Vincent isn't mine. He's Brian's.
MICHAEL: Brian said you could have him.

Seems pretty self-explanitory to me...and I still think it supports my threory.

2000_328ci

09-27-06, 10:42 PM

wait so this forum is saying that walt and vincent together have special powers... spooky

LostInWilderness

09-30-06, 08:54 PM

There may be something to Walt thinking the dog was Brian's. Growing up, my mom thought my dog was her's, but the dog and I knew better. It doesn't seem that Walt feels the same way, and that struck me as odd at the time. But maybe Brian had Vincent when they moved in together.

bigmouth

10-16-06, 07:05 PM

I'm amazed this thread hasn't gotten more play in light of the S3 premiere. I still think there was something awfully strange about the white dove that flew out of Otherville after the opening sequence. Some on the Island can communicate with animals -- I'm convinced of it.

I also thought of this thread again recently when I stumbled onto some interesting Dr. Doolittle connections. Turns out the Doc (who could talk to animals) travels to the moon in one story to pursue his dream of extending human life. And in Dr. Doolittle and the Secret Lake, we learn that one of the Doc's pals is a turtle who was a passenger on Noah's Ark. There are disturbing descriptions of animal massacres of humans...

Anyway, what if Dharma was experimenting with using people to control animal familiars? What if those people and/or their animal familiars rebelled?

island_maverick

10-17-06, 01:35 AM

Anyway, what if Dharma was experimenting with using people to control animal familiars? What if those people and/or their animal familiars rebelled?I like this idea, and, from what we saw in the first two episodes of S3, I'd think the motivations for the animal research was primarily to understand the psyche of various animals, perhaps in order to develop a generic 'communicate' policy as a means for gaining absolute control or power of them.

Cages with rewards systems to understand how to control bears, underwater chambers with glass panels to understand how sharks/dolphins behave - someone asked in another thread, why have an intercom in an underwater room - the intercom would be used to transmit high frequency signals that only sea mammals could understand.

All in all, Dharma's many stations were all focussed on one thing - understanding human and animal psychology and behavioural patterns, under certain input conditions, as a means to learning how to control them in absolution. Why? I'd love to threadjack and go off on a transhumanist rant, but maybe I'll save that for another thread.