Desmond Following Kelvin/Inman

[A++]

Hi hello, I don't like starting new thread's, a great potential for been blasted, but the search function is hard!(honestly!).

Anyway, if this is irrelevant/meaningless..sorry!

I was just thinking about the scene where Desmond followed Kelvin/Inman into the jungle. The time period must have been around an hour and 50 mins from when he left the hatch, followed him to the rocky shore, killed him, and then got back to see his hatch imlpoding. HOW far do you think they could have travelled during that time? I don't feel it could have been a great distance, so if kelvin did die on the day the plane crashed wouldnt any of the losties (Locke the wanderer and Sayid when he went on his scouting of the shoreline) have found his body?Surely it cant be that far from the hatch and their camp? Also they should have seen desmonds sailboat parked up just off shore? Just a thought.

Also I read speculation that kelvin isn't dead, but wouldn't he have taken Desmonds sailboat if he did surivive. Instead it was still there for desmond to flee. Unless he was really injured and the others found him.

sorry if this has been talked about, merge me please!

A

[PsychoDad]

Hi hello, I don't like starting new thread's, a great potential for been blasted, but the search function is hard!(honestly!).

Anyway, if this is irrelevant/meaningless..sorry!

I was just thinking about the scene where Desmond followed Kelvin/Inman into the jungle. The time period must have been around an hour and 50 mins from when he left the hatch, followed him to the rocky shore, killed him, and then got back to see his hatch imlpoding. HOW far do you think they could have travelled during that time? I don't feel it could have been a great distance, so if kelvin did die on the day the plane crashed wouldnt any of the losties (Locke the wanderer and Sayid when he went on his scouting of the shoreline) have found his body?Surely it cant be that far from the hatch and their camp? Also they should have seen desmonds sailboat parked up just off shore? Just a thought.

Also I read speculation that kelvin isn't dead, but wouldn't he have taken Desmonds sailboat if he did surivive. Instead it was still there for desmond to flee. Unless he was really injured and the others found him.

sorry if this has been talked about, merge me please!

A

Good question, I hadnt even thought about Kelvin's dead body. There is a bit of a mystery in this though. Despite the fact that Kelvin "died" because they showed his blood, I think its possible to take a powerful blow to the head like that and live. Besides, no burial is mentioned by Desmond, and the body would most defenitely have been discovered, I remember that location in the background from the episode where Hurley runs into Danielle. Perhaps the others got rid of it, perhaps he wasnt really dead. Mayeb thats why Desmond said "You?" after he saw jack and Co.

[ldsdbomber]

good point, but I think it's just like all the other huge holes in the plot/story, most of which seem to come from the fact that no one among the survivors seems to tell anyone else what's going on as seemingly crucial occurrences are not even discussed. How on Earth the losties haven't already discovered things like the chute exit, the "others" camp, the huge foot statue when they are all obviously within an hour or two of their camp is pretty unbelievable. Best just to enjoy the show while realising that in actual fact, the logic and coherence of the story is at best paper thin.

[sin]

Didn't Desmond say that he only had 108 minutes to bury him? Or was that Kelvin talking about his old partner?

[RidersOnTheStorm]

That was Kelvin talking about Redzinsky.

[equinox]

if kelvin did die on the day the plane crashed wouldnt any of the losties (Locke the wanderer and Sayid when he went on his scouting of the shoreline) have found his body?Surely it cant be that far from the hatch and their camp? Also they should have seen desmonds sailboat parked up just off shore?
I can't imagine that Desmond just left the body there on the shore. I assume he's decent enough to have returned and buried the body. That was before the Losties began to explore near the Swan's area. The boat, however, is another matter. Also, you'd think that Desmond would have spent as much time as possible out of the bunker now that he knew that there was no contamination. I guess we're supposed to think that during the first forty days the Losties and Desmond were not in the same areas and never happened to bump into each other during their respective excursions and that the Losties did not go near the boat. Or that Desmond was lying.

the logic and coherence of the story is at best paper thin
There's that, too. And, unfortunately, it looks like the most probable explanation. And it's getting thinner.

Also I read speculation that kelvin isn't dead
I think it's safe to assume that he's well dead. Desmond is not completely stupid or cruel, and he would certainly have done something to help Kelvin if he wasn't absolutely sure that he was dead. Also, for the reason mentioned above, assuming Desmond did return to bury the body, he would have noticed and he would have mentioned it if it had disappeared.

[rknorton91]

Desmond was in hurry to return back to the button. You can see for your self that he simply lifted up his head and saw the blood and assumes the worst before he runs back to the bunker.

A hit like that to the back of the head can easily kill you but a hit like that to the back of the head can easily cause a laceration that would bleed profusely as most head wounds do due to the amount of blood flow and simply knock you out for a period of time (leaving you with some form of a concusion injury). Also Kelvin could have used some theatrical blood bag on the back of his head to make it look like he had a serious injury.

We can assume the easiest explanation but there are still other possibilties.

The only question then is if Kelvin is for some reason not dead why would Kelvin lead Desmond to his boat and then not take it when he had a chance but instead left it for Desmond? hmmmmmm?

[PsychoDad]

Desmond was in hurry to return back to the button. You can see for your self that he simply lifted up his head and saw the blood and assumes the worst before he runs back to the bunker.

A hit like that to the back of the head can easily kill you but a hit like that to the back of the head can easily cause a laceration that would bleed profusely as most head wounds do due to the amount of blood flow and simply knock you out for a period of time (leaving you with some form of a concusion injury). Also Kelvin could have used some theatrical blood bag on the back of his head to make it look like he had a serious injury.

We can assume the easiest explanation but there are still other possibilties.

The only question then is if Kelvin is for some reason not dead why would Kelvin lead Desmond to his boat and then not take it when he had a chance but instead left it for Desmond? hmmmmmm?

Good question, beats me.

[Farmer Ted]

A hit like that to the back of the head can easily kill you but a hit like that to the back of the head can easily cause a laceration that would bleed profusely as most head wounds do due to the amount of blood flow and simply knock you out for a period of time (leaving you with some form of a concusion injury).

The hit to the back of Kelvin's head was an awful lot like the one that Desmond took earlier in the flashback. It knocked him out good, but didn't kill him. I think it's possible he's still alive, but you never know with this show. My guess is that if Desmond had immediately returned to bury the body, he might've seen smoke from the plane crash that happened while he was in the hatch. He seemed pretty oblivious of the crash, so I think it's possible he left Kelvin for the gulls.

[Shifty]

madye it ws washed away by tide

[sexy baby mama]

^^^ that was kelvin talking about his old partner.

[Big Jake]

Here's the real issue, did Inman want Desmond to follow him? Shortly before the scene where Inman leaves wearing the (obviously) torn bio-hazard uniform, he mocks Desmond for being thrown out of "that nice old ladies army" for not following orders. Inman then clearly makes the point of "ordering" him to stay behind to man the button. Then upon leaving the hatch, Inman pointedly says goodbye to Desmond, in a tone that resounds with finality. I think he was goading Desmond to leave the hatch and follow him. Any speculation as to why?

[adiohead]

he was saying bye because he was gonna leave on elizabeth

[skitz0]

If you notice most of the people that have died on this show, they made a point of making sure you knew they were dead.... i.e. someone saying "they're dead" after checking, or showing the funeral, etc. I think the fact that we just saw Kelvin bleeding and Desmond running off assuming he was dead means that he's not really dead.

But who knows? :)

As far as him saying "Bye" because he was getting ready to leave on the boat... didn't he tell Desmond that it was still not quite ready to go and then he invited Desmond to go with him? That doesn't fit much with him saying "bye" because he was ready to sail out.

[trink2030]

Also Kelvin could have used some theatrical blood bag on the back of his head to make it look like he had a serious injury.

Yes, that's it. :rolleyes4

[RidersOnTheStorm]

As far as him saying "Bye" because he was getting ready to leave on the boat... didn't he tell Desmond that it was still not quite ready to go and then he invited Desmond to go with him? That doesn't fit much with him saying "bye" because he was ready to sail out.
Maybe the boat was already to go and Inman was going to leave that day, but seeing as Des followed him he had to make up the story that the boat wasn't ready yet.

[interplanetjanet]

Is Kelvin dead?
I'd say yes. If he wasn't killed by the blow, he either recovered, in which case he would have taken the boat and gone, or he was captured by others, in which case you'd expect them to take the boat.

How far is the beach?
Kelvin said he'd be gone a couple of hours, which sounded like his usual time away. Maybe 45 minutes of hiking straight there, with 30-60 minutes working on the boat each time. Desmond presumably returned at top speed, so it could be over an hour's hike walking, with a return in half the time or less sprinting. As for the losties not finding it--Sayid explores off counter-clockwise around the island, and also knows about the beach to the north where he took Shannon. The boat could have been just north of there.

Did Kelvin want to be followed?
He seemed to prime Desmond for it. But that could have been giddiness--he was going pretty nuts after all that time, and the thought that he was about to leave made him careless, where his old sneaky self would have departed about 15 minutes before the button needed to be pushed, without pushing any of Desmond's buttons.

[rknorton91]

Here's the real issue, did Inman want Desmond to follow him? Shortly before the scene where Inman leaves wearing the (obviously) torn bio-hazard uniform, he mocks Desmond for being thrown out of "that nice old ladies army" for not following orders. Inman then clearly makes the point of "ordering" him to stay behind to man the button. Then upon leaving the hatch, Inman pointedly says goodbye to Desmond, in a tone that resounds with finality. I think he was goading Desmond to leave the hatch and follow him. Any speculation as to why?

Yes exactly Big Jake it seems pretty obvious he was goading him to follow him. Mr CIA man just happened to slip up and let Desmond see the cut in the leg yeah right. I am of the opinion that everybody is under a constant con of some sort by other people the questionis what is the goal of these people running these cons to control other peoples lives

and Trink2030 if we have others using fake beards to play parts why do you think it is weird to have some one use a theatrical blood bad to fake an injury?

Inman brings out Desmond tempts him with the boat
fakes his death
now Desmond sits in the bunker all by himself with the constant burning temptation to just run away to his boat but he is fearfull that the world we end if he does not stay. Locke shows up and he spys his chance to run away from this responsability and does so. Gets on his ship and sails away only to find there is no way to leave.
So in the end he is willing to risk his life by activating the failsafe device because the only two alternatives seem to be either die by the growing power of the EM field or maybe if he did survive the field and every thing went back to normal he risks staying for the rest of his life stuck on the island with no way off.. so what the heck turn the key and see what happens (I mean life for Desmond can't get any worse right?)

[IamColossus]

Here's the real issue, did Inman want Desmond to follow him? Shortly before the scene where Inman leaves wearing the (obviously) torn bio-hazard uniform, he mocks Desmond for being thrown out of "that nice old ladies army" for not following orders. Inman then clearly makes the point of "ordering" him to stay behind to man the button. Then upon leaving the hatch, Inman pointedly says goodbye to Desmond, in a tone that resounds with finality. I think he was goading Desmond to leave the hatch and follow him. Any speculation as to why?
I think it is all a setup to make Desmond and the other Losties believe that Desmond brought down the plane, not the others. Think about it. Suppose not pressing the button somehow makes the others stronger. This would be akin to the "Collective Consciousness" theory that someone came up with. When the others get stronger, they could guide the plane in to the island.

Suppose the plan was to get the pilot to bring the plane close to the island on a specific date. Kelvin would wait for this date and time and lure Desmond out of the hatch. The button would not get pressed, the others get stronger, and they can bring the plane down soft enough not to kill everyone. And, on another note, suppose Kelvin tampered with the GPS on the boat. Desmond would sail around and think there was no outside world after he ends up back at the island. This would be like torture for Desmond, thinking he caused the plane crash and also thinking he is stuck on the island. Maybe Penelope's dad wants Desmond to suffer?

[interplanetjanet]

Inman brings out Desmond tempts him with the boat
fakes his death
That's quite a plan--what would he do, fake a heart attack and hope Desmond didn't check his pulse?

I think it was done that way because they had to fit everything in a short expanse of flashbacks. Better to have the comment about obeying orders several weeks away from the ripped leg, but they only had so much space to work in. We would have been asking "why does he follow Inman after all this time??!!" without the strong prompts.

[???]

That's a good question. But we don't know where the plane crashed in relation to the hatch or the wierd rocky shore. It is also possible that, yes, Kelvin isn't dead.

[Kylie]

Yes exactly Big Jake it seems pretty obvious he was goading him to follow him. Mr CIA man just happened to slip up and let Desmond see the cut in the leg yeah right. I am of the opinion that everybody is under a constant con of some sort by other people the questionis what is the goal of these people running these cons to control other peoples lives

and Trink2030 if we have others using fake beards to play parts why do you think it is weird to have some one use a theatrical blood bad to fake an injury?

Inman brings out Desmond tempts him with the boat
fakes his death

There's a difference between manipulating someone and controlling them. You can put on a fake beard to disguise yourself when you know you will encounter a person. You can say to someone, "wow, you guys really have trust issues" and watch the fun ... but to strap a squib to your head and walk outside and determine exactly how to provoke a person into bashing your head against a rock is, I feel, a bit crazy and impossible.

The Others/Dharma/Hanso might be mysterious and efficient, but they are not omnipotent.

Let's put it this way: the logic of a story arc will only allow so much backtracking. You have to provide the audience some form of "out" in order to accept the kind of massive rewriting you're suggesting here. If our hero plummets over the side of the cliff at the end of the season and then you go back and tell us at the beginning of the next season that he grabbed hold of some root at the very last second, the audience is only going to swallow it so many times.

You have to build some framework of trust or there is no show. There is no point in watching something that could be a total lie at any given moment. This is why the ultimate theory of LOST is so important and has a lot to live up to.

[carmela]

You have to build some framework of trust or there is no show. There is no point in watching something that could be a total lie at any given moment. This is why the ultimate theory of LOST is so important and has a lot to live up to.

Thank goodness - someone finally said it. I know that this show creates a lot of questions but we can't question each and every detail.

[rknorton91]

The Others/Dharma/Hanso might be mysterious and efficient, but they are not omnipotent.

Tell me out of every interresting that you have ever seen on this show, have any of them been any where close to the realm of being something that you thought would have happened? or would be remotely normal or possible?

A dozen or two dozen seemingly random people all happen to get on the same international flight being (from my best count) from atleast five different continents yet they all have interacted at some point in time before they ever went to the airport

Plane suddenly rips apart at full altitude and cruising speed yet 70+ people survive the crash

Before the crash the following people are:
Kate pulls cons to get what see wants
Sawyers does as well and has been a victim of one
Locke is the victim of a con from his dad
Sayid participates in a con to nail a terrorist and to rescue his true love
Eko pretends to be a priest
Claire was conned into getting on the flight by the Psycic
Anna Lcuia ran a con to murder the person who shot her instead of prosocuting him
Jin is border line pretending to be a normal business man while actualy being a strong man for Sun's father
Sun almost snuck out of both the country and from her husband also border line not realy a con I don't think
Libby we don't know enough about yet but I am pretty sure sure belongs somewhere on this con list

First night the tailies sleep on the beach the others are there allready and take three a few nights later they take more with a list they have drawn up with names on them. From the very begging these others do not seem suprised that they have come they are ready and prepared to take certain people for certain reasons

The losties are constantly directed by other people by giving them just enough info to get a certain response.

They are also directed by strange visions and dreams and seemingly real halicunations that appear real sometimes to the touch sometimes even by more than one person at the same time.

Currently unexplainable healing properties along with unexplainable security systems and black smokie things and underground chains that pull people under the ground oh I shouldn't forget the polar bears..... and pissed off giraffes:nanabobo:

Then ofcourse there is strange bunker complex put all over this island along with strange statues supposedly a radio tower somewhere and lets not forget the roughly 18th century sailing ship that is sitting smack dab in the middle of this huge island on dry land and for the cherry on top you couldn't have a strange island with out a huge crater in it

Even then all of the abvove is not strange enough we still have at least 6 differnet vessels (that we know of) that have crashed on this island [flight 815, drug plane, hot air ballon, Danielle's research ship, Desmonds sailing yacht, and the 18th century sailing ship] and several different groups of people that all ready inhabit this odd supposedly unkown island


There's a difference between manipulating someone and controlling them. You can put on a fake beard to disguise yourself when you know you will encounter a person. You can say to someone, "wow, you guys really have trust issues" and watch the fun ... but to strap a squib to your head and walk outside and determine exactly how to provoke a person into bashing your head against a rock is, I feel, a bit crazy and impossible.




but yeah I guess thinking that if Desmond suddenly saw the ship that he thought was lost was sitting in the bay and it looked like Inman was aobut to take off with it without telling him I guess it would be to hard to assume that Desmond might actual push or hit Inman so that he could take a fake fall and pretend to be hurt..... that would probably be just too weird for LOST and a bit of stretch

[Kylie]

Tell me out of every interresting that you have ever seen on this show, have any of them been any where close to the realm of being something that you thought would have happened? or would be remotely normal or possible?

A dozen or two dozen seemingly random people all happen to get on the same international flight being (from my best count) from atleast five different continents yet they all have interacted at some point in time before they ever went to the airport

First, you're assuming that everything strange having to do with the island has to do with everything else. It's hard to deny that fate and destiny have become major pieces of the Lost story. As such, I'm holding out to see whether these coincidences are some commentary on life as we know it or part of a specific agent like Dharma.

First night the tailies sleep on the beach the others are there allready and take three a few nights later they take more with a list they have drawn up with names on them. From the very begging these others do not seem suprised that they have come they are ready and prepared to take certain people for certain reasons

This does not seem to be beyond the realm of possibility. It all depends on how familiar with the flight they are. We have yet to discover the exact nature of the Others (and we know that they are pretending) so we do not know what information is available to them.

The losties are constantly directed by other people by giving them just enough info to get a certain response.

They are also directed by strange visions and dreams and seemingly real halicunations that appear real sometimes to the touch sometimes even by more than one person at the same time.

Currently unexplainalbe healing properties along with unexplainable security systems and black smoke things and underground chains that pull people under the ground oh I shouldn't forget the polar bears .....

To me, these are very different things and may be influenced by very different agents. The Others can interact with them and manipulate the Losties, yes, but I'm not convinced yet that the Others are a part of the island in any kind of symbiotic relationship. The hallucinations could be an effect of the island itself. The security system may or may not be Dharma. We have to remember that the existence of the island does not begin and end with the Hanso foundation (as far as we are aware). Many of these strange aspects could be the very reasons WHY they wanted to use the island.

but yeah I guess thinking that if Desmond suddenly saw the ship that he thought was lost was sitting in the bay and it looked like Inman was aobut to take off with it without telling him I guess it would be to hard to assume that Desmond might actual push or hit Inman so that he could take a fake fall and pretend to be hurt..... that would probably be just too weird for LOST and a bit of stretch

I agree that you can plan to provoke someone. But hand-to-hand combat has to be the sloppiest con kill ever. If you're going to fake a death at someone's hands, there's usually a controllable mechanism involved (say a gun that shoots blanks).

My other problem is that I don't see the point. Why would you want Desmond to think he'd killed you? So that you could escape? The boat was still there months later. So that he would be forced to take over? He can do that without the big "follow men and think you've killed me" charade. And in fact, though the motives of the Others/Dharma aren't clear, you have to acknowledge that Kelvin risked the stability of the island in his ruse. Desmond reached system failure.

It's not that I object to finding out someone faked their death. I even take into consideration that Kelvin is ex CIA. But the situation we've been discussing in this thread is so elaborate and so unmotivated as to be preposterous. It's the kind of rewrite that makes you stop watching a show. People in this forum are already tearing apart the fact that Desmond said Kelvin ran out to meet him and talked to him while the actual flashback showed no such thing, but now we want to say that Kelvin had this entire thing planned out? I agree that the death was quick, and therefore felt a little fishy, but sometimes life is just that unlucky and Desmond doesn't seem be having any luck lately. For all we know, the nature of Kelvin's death has more yet to do with Desmond than it has to do with Kelvin and Dharma.

The strangeness of the island has nothing to do with faking Kelvin's death. The capabilities of the Others have nothing to do with Kelvin's death. So, I should rephrase my earlier statement: I'm not saying it isn't possible. I'm saying it doesn't make sense. And if it doesn't make sense, you're taking a big risk by going back and telling the audience everything they saw was a lie. At that point, why don't we just say that Kelvin was never biding his time with fixing the boat, but was hanging around to get into Desmond's head? Why don't we just say that Kelvin was never drunk? Why don't we just say the whole thing is a hallucination? Why don't we just say that Jack is going to wake up at the series finale and discover it was all a dream? After you totally restructure a situation like the sequence leading up to Kelvin's death, you can't have any faith that ANYTHING that happens will stay part of the larger reality. How can you watch that?

[interplanetjanet]

I agree that you can plan to provoke someone. But hand-to-hand combat has to be the sloppiest con kill ever. If you're going to fake a death at someone's hands, there's usually a controllable mechanism involved (say a gun that shoots blanks).
I agree. That plan is worse than one of Jack's. Kelvin needs to provoke Desmond to shove him in such a way that he can fall exactly on his dye packet. Then Desmond needs to fail to notice Kelvin is still breathing. And fail to finish the job by strangling him, drowning him, or beating him some more.

If Kelvin wanted to fake his death, he could leave a ripped up yellow suit artfully sprinkled with fake or boar blood near the hatch. If he wanted to fake that Desmond killed him (motive: psychological experiment; stakes: possible end of world), a gun with blanks near a short cliff would work better. (Though an accomplice to check the body and exclaim "he's dead" would help a lot.)

Just as I think asking "why doesn't Michael think things through logically and come up with a good plan" misses the point that Michael's mind is broken and he's way past logic, I think expecting perfectly rational behavior from our hatch monkeys wouldn't make sense. Look at Locke after a month, and he could go outside and had company.

There are enough mysteries on Lost without turning every minor plot point into an elaborate con.

[rknorton91]

My other problem is that I don't see the point. Why would you want Desmond to think he'd killed you? So that you could escape? The boat was still there months later. So that he would be forced to take over? He can do that without the big "follow men and think you've killed me" charade. And in fact, though the motives of the Others/Dharma aren't clear, you have to acknowledge that Kelvin risked the stability of the island in his ruse. Desmond reached system failure.

It's not that I object to finding out someone faked their death. I even take into consideration that Kelvin is ex CIA. But the situation we've been discussing in this thread is so elaborate and so unmotivated as to be preposterous. It's the kind of rewrite that makes you stop watching a show. People in this forum are already tearing apart the fact that Desmond said Kelvin ran out to meet him and talked to him while the actual flashback showed no such thing, but now we want to say that Kelvin had this entire thing planned out? I agree that the death was quick, and therefore felt a little fishy, but sometimes life is just that unlucky and Desmond doesn't seem be having any luck lately. For all we know, the nature of Kelvin's death has more yet to do with Desmond than it has to do with Kelvin and Dharma.


There is a second bit of info that I think leads some creedance to this theory and that is for some reason it appears that there is a designed plan to get the losties to stop pushing the button at the very least but also quite likley the actual goal was to get the fail safe key turned.
We know that Fenry lied to Locke for the purpose of getting him to rethink whether or not he should waste his time pushing the button.
The dream/vision that Locke had lead him and Eko to find the Pearl instead of the ? that Eko's vision wanted him to find and had been warned theere would be many distractions
The pearl seems to be designed for the express purpose of making those in the swan believe what they are doing is just party of some stupid test and is not real.


So the assumption is ( and I agree it is by no means a certain assumption) maybe Kelvin had been turned (like Micheal had) to work for the others or whom ever wanted the fail safe key turned. (ofcourse the big question is if the the turning of the key doesn't kill Desmond why could not Kelvin just turn it for them? that is why I am fairly certain that Desmond is in fact dead) He is to find a way to tempt Desmond into wanting to leave his responsibilty behind. To do that he had to show him his boat. But he can't just simply show him or else he would risk Desmond just taking off and leaving Kelvin holding the bag. No he must instead lead him out of the bunker taking him far enough away that Desmond barely can afford to spend anymore time there with out causing the countdown to go to zero. That is when he sees the boat which causes Desmond to freak out cause he had been told there was no boat (maybe Kelvin actualy found it and fixed maybe the others found it and brought it to him who knows?) Kelvin acts like he was planning on taking off without him and Desmond get angry and pushes him and he intentionaly falls over backward on to the rock surface (on the back of his head is taped the blood bag and it is designed to come open with the slightest preassure anywhere on the back side of his head and then covered over with hair to make it look like it is part of his head) blood goes out from what looks like a wound Desmond lifts him up enough to see the blood pouring out and that he is unconscious he assumes he is dead and says "no" but now because the timer is counting down he had no other choice to leave right then to go and push the button.

I now assume when he comes back he finds the body missing but the boat is still there taunting him to leave if only he could get the guts up to use the failsafe key. The question is what would Kelvin get out of the deal if this is what he did?

All in all this is only one likely out come it is entirely possible that Kelvin did actualy accidentaly die but given the show that is LOST I am not counting on it.

[rknorton91]

Oh I all most forgot I had meant to speak about this

People in this forum are already tearing apart the fact that Desmond said Kelvin ran out to meet him and talked to him while the actual flashback showed no such thing,

I don't see why they are saying this? I wen't back and rewatched that section of the flash back and it clearly shows Kelvin coming upto Desmond after he washed up on the beach. Then it clearly shows him hauling Desmond on a stretcher to the bunker (because the button had to be pusshed ofcourse) Once there he asks him if he is him, when he find out he is not he is disappointed then the button alarm starts to go off and we can only assume after he pushed the button they had the conversation about why he pushed it and we can also only assume that at some point in which he was hauling Desmond back to the bunker that he repeatedly told him we must hurry just as he had told Jack in the story.
True the stories are not exact but I don't think at the time Desmond was planning on going into minute detail about how it happened when the only reason he was telling the story in the first place was under duress cause Jack was holding his tools hostage that he need to fix the computer with he simply tried to find the fastest way to convey a brief explanation as to how he got here and what the button does and why it must be fixed

[Kylie]

As for the flashback inaccuracy, I agree. There is no problem there. But my point was that if the fans are ripping up the slightest "rewrite" in that kind of situation, think how betrayed they would feel if the writers totally backtracked on Kelvin's death?

I see your point about wanting the Losties to turn the failsafe key -- I just don't agree.

[time is a river]

One thing is certain: Kelvin intended to deceive Desmond. Kelvin makes a big deal about putting on the Hazmat suit before he goes out. Then the time that Desmond follows him Kelvin pulls off the mask. Thus the hazmat suit is not needed and Kelvin REPEATEDLY impressed on Desmond that it was.

So knowing that Kelvin deceived Desmond, what else can we speculate? That Kelvin deceived Desmond into following him out the day that the plane crashed, so that Desmond would fail to press the button in time, which would lead to the plane crash, or make Desmond THINK it made the plane crash. Given the first certainty I don't think that this is too much of a leap.

Is Kelvin dead? He either could or he couldn't be and it would not affect the above 2 suppositions. I think that he is not dead. It seems like really a freak way to die.

[Tage]

Four or five miles, tops.

[truffula]

Doing a search for Kelvin's Body has brought me here.

After reviewing my caps, I can safely say that dead or not, Kelvin's body was eventually removed from where Desmond left him for dead.
Unless this is just a case of reused location for shooting (which it might be), the Tailies would've encountered Kelvin's body on their hike to the Fusies camp.

Check it out:

From S2E6 "Abandoned" -

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e41/truffula/Random%20Pics/thehike1.jpg


And now the same location in S2E23 "Live Together, Die Alone" -

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e41/truffula/Random%20Pics/followingKelvin1.jpg


Make note of the triangular rock sticking out of the cliff on the right - they are identical.

And also this:

From S2E6 "Abandoned" -

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e41/truffula/Random%20Pics/twocaves.jpg


And this from S2E23 "Live Together, Die Alone" -

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e41/truffula/Random%20Pics/followingKelvin4.jpg


Note that the left edge of the cliff that Eko is looking at is the exact same one seen here behind Desmond moments before he kills Kelvin.

So like I said, either it was simply a reused location for shooting, or Kelvin's body was removed (by someone) after Desmond had "killed" him.

Peace,
Truff

[drabauer]

truff you are amazing!

[timbo910]

I agree, excellent caps Truff.

This brought up another question in my head. Wouldn't the tailies have seen Desmond's boat? Whether it was still docked in the bay or sailing away by then. I am not sure of the timeline of the tailies trek through the treacherous terrain (alliteration).

[truffula]

I agree, excellent caps Truff.

This brought up another question in my head. Wouldn't the tailies have seen Desmond's boat? Whether it was still docked in the bay or sailing away by then. I am not sure of the timeline of the tailies trek through the treacherous terrain (alliteration).
I believe at that point Desmond had abandonded the hatch and set sail. I think he says how long he was sailing for in LTDA.....gonna check the transcripts...be back in a sec with an ETA ;)

As promised...
ETA - DESMOND [laughing]: Do you think I did it on purpose? I was sailing for two and half weeks, bearing due West and making 9 knots. I should have been in Fiji in less than a week. But the first piece of land I saw wasn't Fiji, was it? No. No, it was here -- this, this island.

[timbo910]

*waiting patiently while Truff does all the work* ;)

[krastar]

Any theory linking Kelvin with the others doesn't add up because Ben would have known about the boat methinks. And he clearly doesn't when hes told that Sayid and company are on one.

[The_Lurker]

Very risky to fake a death at all for Desmond's benefit. Didn't Desmond once say he was "almost a doctor?" Pretty easy to quickly tell if someone is dead or not. Smashing your head against a rock with the weight of someone else on top of you is a pretty easy way to crack your skull open. I'm not saying Kelvin is definitively dead, but until I see otherwise, I'm assuming so. I would guess that a later flashback from Desmond would show us what happened to Kelvin's body, but maybe this loose end never gets tied up.