button-pushing shifts

[Susan B Anthony]

Is there a timeline somewhere on this board? I'm working my way back through S2, trying to figure out (among other things) how long they actually pushed the button - - in other words, how many Island days did S2 last? Desmond said he sailed for 2 weeks before he found himself back at the island. Does that sound right?

Let's all take a moment to say "huh????" over the fact that there was a functional sailboat anchored off the island that the 815s never found. DOH!!!

I'm just thinking of Locke's 6-hour, 2-person shifts that he set up. That's 4 shifts a day, so 8 people per day. We have approximately 40 815s camping on the beach, so it would take 5 days to run through them all. (Although maybe some of them didn't get button-duty, evidenced by the fact that Claire was not familiar with the pretty-loud-alarm that goes off every 108 minutes.)

So we ignore the obvious logistical problems of people needing to know what time it is, and for that matter what day it is, to know when they are supposed to go on duty. But did they all watch the orientation film, or did Locke do an inservice with every shift? Or did Locke stay to supervise the pushers? And don't forget that when Fenry arrived, the rest of the 815s were laid off.

It just seems like after a lifetime of working fairly unfulfilling jobs (although self-employed home inspector seemed like a good gig), Locke grew disillusioned with the world-saving button-pushing within just about a week. His benefits wouldn't even have kicked in by then! And unless everybody else walked off the job after one shift, Locke would have only had about 3 shifts himself.

Just musing. Just trying to find something to sustain me till September. Just waxing nostalgic for the old days of "Jack & Locke & the Hatch," and "Locke is a Spirit Guide."

AND ANOTHER THING - - - can somebody tell me where to buy a computer that will work for 25 years without crashing, even after it has been shot? This system locks up trying to manage the forum traffic after any scene where Sawyer takes off his shirt.

[boonian androphile]

Is there a timeline somewhere on this board? I'm working my way back through S2, trying to figure out (among other things) how long they actually pushed the button - - in other words, how many Island days did S2 last? Desmond said he sailed for 2 weeks before he found himself back at the island. Does that sound right?

Let's all take a moment to say "huh????" over the fact that there was a functional sailboat anchored off the island that the 815s never found. DOH!!!

Desmond of course was highly intoxicated at the time of his return. Who knows how quickly he saw the folly of escape and where he then, instead, escaped into the bottle. There was of course a missed opportunity of Desmond hearing the numbers as though they were echoes of the sirens, whereupon, in an effort to hear them no longer, he drank rather than to be tied to the mast.

What's odder really? That the 815's never saw the boat or that the Others apparently never did? The Others, as we recall, have the capability to chase after seacraft. Did they here? And did they make Desmond their pawn? Makes for a far better tale than arm-twisting Michael into murder.


I'm just thinking of Locke's 6-hour, 2-person shifts that he set up. That's 4 shifts a day, so 8 people per day. We have approximately 40 815s camping on the beach, so it would take 5 days to run through them all. (Although maybe some of them didn't get button-duty, evidenced by the fact that Claire was not familiar with the pretty-loud-alarm that goes off every 108 minutes.)

I dont know if the writers care, but as evidenced by the quick abandonment of Bernard's attempt at constructing the SOS, I would say that most who were enlisted into the button pushing grew tired of the position very fast. After awhile, we were led to believe the Locke was the main if not only button pusher left.

So we ignore the obvious logistical problems of people needing to know what time it is, and for that matter what day it is, to know when they are supposed to go on duty. But did they all watch the orientation film, or did Locke do an inservice with every shift? Or did Locke stay to supervise the pushers? And don't forget that when Fenry arrived, the rest of the 815s were laid off.

It just seems like after a lifetime of working fairly unfulfilling jobs (although self-employed home inspector seemed like a good gig), Locke grew disillusioned with the world-saving button-pushing within just about a week. His benefits wouldn't even have kicked in by then! And unless everybody else walked off the job after one shift, Locke would have only had about 3 shifts himself.

This is where the show really goofed. Why not show the training and the importance of pushing the buttons?---if such absurdity can be described. We stumbled onto this opportunity to save the world! Join us! Only a handful would have remained even before Fenry arrived. And when Fenry arrived, only the inner circle had access to him and to the hatch. I am going to say that Locke was the most frequent button pusher then, which earned him the savior of the year award.

Locke also grew disillusioned---or I did---because he was taken away from helping people on an individual scale and placed at helping people on global scale---which can mean if results are not forthcoming not helping them at all. Also, there is Locke's own deluded and selfish interest in being absorbed into an all or nothing belief system package. That, Im sure, was probably his truer motivation. Need converts for that or one lives in an agonizing void.

Just musing. Just trying to find something to sustain me till September. Just waxing nostalgic for the old days of "Jack & Locke & the Hatch," and "Locke is a Spirit Guide."

AND ANOTHER THING - - - can somebody tell me where to buy a computer that will work for 25 years without crashing, even after it has been shot? This system locks up trying to manage the forum traffic after any scene where Sawyer takes off his shirt.

Me too Susan B Anthony. Where are the days where the characters were more than skin on cardboard?

As for locating a computer, I recommend the batcave, an ironic retro replacement for the shackling hatch. Hurley almost made it to the cave. Thanks Stupid Dave for getting in the way!

[Susan B Anthony]

What's odder really? That the 815's never saw the boat or that the Others apparently never did? The Others, as we recall, have the capability to chase after seacraft.

Good point. A couple of possibilities: 1) Kelvin/Inman ran them off. Recall Kelvin & Desmond's reference to "the hostiles." 2) The Others weren't really interested in the sailboat. Are the Others trapped on the island? Or there by choice? The clunker boat they were in could have been part of the set dressing, accented by costumes and fake beards.

Also, there is Locke's own deluded and selfish interest in being absorbed into an all or nothing belief system package.

He did kind of lose sight of the gray areas, didn't he? As you may know from my previous posts, I mightily resist the impulse to blame bad writing for the character's behavior. I would rather see seemingly inconsistent behavior as just another aspect to the character and try to analyze accordingly. (I understand that the former may very well be the case, but it just spoils my t.v.-watching experience.)

The all-or-nothing attitude does fit all of the behavior, though. When Locke felt like the chosen one, he was uber-815, saving lives, feeding the masses, bestowing wisdom. But then the Island stopped talking to him. We don't really know of a havid since bloody Boone and the beechcraft, do we? Locke continued to hold the faith, even up to the point of seeing destiny behind Eko bringing him the missing part of the orientation film. What is weird to me is that his faith crumbled completely away even while his crushed leg was being rapidly healed. Has Locke come to take the Island's healing powers for granted? He has to see that the Island doesn't heal everybody. But still that doesn't restore his sense of being linked to the Island. I don't know what it might mean, but I keep hearkening back to Locke's description of the walkabout as being a spiritual journey where one becomes inseparable from the earth.

He is all-or-nothing after visiting the Pearl, too. He doesn't integrate this new information into the old, and ask himself, "Isn't this the same guy who told me to push the button in the other film? Why should I trust him now?" He doesn't try to learn more by, oh, seeing where the still-functioning pneumatic tube leads. He believes the Pearl film with the same blind faith that he believed the Swan film and thus abandons the old faith.

But it doesn't take long of being adrift before Locke grabs hold of another obesession. It isn't enough for Locke to just stop pushing the button and forget about it. He has to destroy it so NOBODY can push it. "If I can't have you, nobody can." I'm starting to get a bad feeling about what happened to Helen after she dumped Locke. I'm thinking a record check would show more than one restraining order filed against our boy!

[boonian androphile]

Susan B Anthony:

In deference to you and for the sake of a rousing summer character discussion, I will attempt to resist assigning the stranger character anomalies to writing and stick more to the facts and the analysis of them. Wont be easy but I will give it a go.

I like the concept that everyone is trapped on the island and that the hostiles (others) themselves must stay and brave the weird elements with everyone else. Maybe they in fact saw Desmond sail off. Bea then said to Tom: We'll see him in a couple of days. The flaw in this argument is the release of Walt to Michael and their supposed departure. I hope that they'll return, mainly so that the story of Michael answering for his actions can better evolve.

I agree that Kelvin might have driven the hostiles/others off. Rousseau managed. But she probably no longer had anything that the others wanted, after Alex's abduction.

Locke's total switch for a blind follower to a absolute rejecter was striking. He was like the eternal child who never received his father's or anyone's love. The problem is too that he lacks a skeptical side. I like the idea that he must destroy the object of his blind faith, and youre right in that this obsession to love and then to destroy may not bode well for Helen in their past and in our future (as in later episodes).

[Susan B Anthony]

[...for the sake of a rousing summer character discussion

Exactly my goal.

[...I like the concept that everyone is trapped on the island and that the hostiles (others) themselves must stay and brave the weird elements with everyone else.

Definitely. This opens up opportunities for shifting loyalties and alliances as the 815s and Others find that there are more dangerous enemies around than each other. I'm sure this has been discussed elsewhere, but do you see the Others as castaways, just from an earlier time? Part of the original Dharma project? Perhaps a combination. We know that Alex was absorbed into their group from infancy. To me, this aspect of Lost is one of the most interesting and promising plot elements - - the brand new society built up from scratch theme.

[...The flaw in this argument is the release of Walt to Michael and their supposed departure. I hope that they'll return, mainly so that the story of Michael answering for his actions can better evolve.

Emphasis on "supposed" departure. Do you really think Fenry is just giving them the big bon voyage? I think the Others know very well that Michael and Walt will get caught in the same current that Desmond did and will turn back up on the Island within a few weeks. I think that when incarcerated Fenry told Jack "they'll never give you Walt," he was speaking true.

But speaking of answering for actions, I'd like to see quite a bit of that in S3. How about Charlie answering (mostly to Jin) for hitting Sun over the head. I see this happening in a moment when Sawyer is cornered and rats out Charlie to deflect from himself. I find it odd that nobody followed up on who Saywer's deputy was. Kate thought to ask the question, but never pressed the issue. And mostly, how about Locke getting a big I-TOLD-YOU-SO to Jack! My fear is that not pushing the button will turn out to be a good thing in the end and Jack will claim that he was right all along that they shouldn't push the button. I hate that guy.

[...Locke's total switch for a blind follower to a absolute rejecter was striking. He was like the eternal child who never received his father's or anyone's love. The problem is too that he lacks a skeptical side.

Maybe what we need to ask ourselves is not, what changed from S1 to S2, but how did S1 Locke come to be in the first place. The wise, confident Locke seems to be the anomoly when you take his life as a whole. If in S2 he has just reverted to his former obsessive, emotionally stunted, all-or-nothing self, then where did S1's wise, intuitive, independent, protector/provider/caretaker come from? It wasn't just "I can walk so I'm going boar-hunting." It was also in Locke's relating to other people, Charlie and Boone being the best examples. He read them accurately and gave them what they needed, bullying them into being better and stronger people. In S2, other than a little pearl here and there (i.e. to Sun, "I stopped looking") he seems to be missing cues with everybody, Michael, Sawyer, Fenry, to name a few. If it truly is the Island that somehow made Locke a better man as he was in S1, then how did he lose that?

[Hodgepodge]

Is there a timeline somewhere on this board? I'm working my way back through S2, trying to figure out (among other things) how long they actually pushed the button - - in other words, how many Island days did S2 last? Desmond said he sailed for 2 weeks before he found himself back at the island. Does that sound right?...Just looking through our own timeline thread, I found this post (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=683803&postcount=125). I haven't checked it for accuracy, but it looks pretty good.


...So we ignore the obvious logistical problems of people needing to know what time it is, and for that matter what day it is, to know when they are supposed to go on duty. But did they all watch the orientation film, or did Locke do an inservice with every shift? Or did Locke stay to supervise the pushers? And don't forget that when Fenry arrived, the rest of the 815s were laid off.SBA, I don't think everyone viewed the Orientation film. I get the impression, Locke gave them a quick synopsis. Although, he did give Michael and Eko an encore showing.

I remember now when I became disillusioned with Locke and the hatch! After he finished showing the film to Michael and Eko, Michael had the audacity to ask? "Don't they want to know why?" Locke matter-of-factly states. "I think the film's pretty self-explanatory." WTF!

If I remember correctly, Fenry mentions he's been in the armory for four days. So for those days, Jack and Locke were the two. Just remembered! Sayid knew about Fenry. But we know, Jack wasn't going to trust Sayid alone with his personal punching bag. Charlie knew, but only through Sayid. We didn't see either of them in the hatch.