Jack vs. Sayid, Who's the better leader? [Archive]

KateIsHot

07-15-06, 01:46 PM

Honestly, I think this should be no contest. The Losties seem to always be under constant attack from various sources, so why not have the military man be in charge instead of the well-meaning doctor? While Jack always tries to do the right things, he often acts without thinking things all the way through.

His 'Hunting Party' for Michael ended pretty disastrously. Constantly putting himself in danger actually risks other people's lives because if something were to happen to him, the Losties would be in a heap of trouble. Imagine if he had blown up with Dr. Arzt. Sawyer would definately be dead. Libby would have suffered a very long and painful death. Remember how he wanted to resolve the Ana Lucia/ Sayid situation?

While Sayid may have to get one torture session a season out of his system, he has one quality that Jack lacks. Emotional detachment so that he can do what is necessary, rather than Jack's let your emotions guide your way. Ana Lucia was emotionally detached too much at first until she came around before she died, but Sayid is the perfect leader for a wartime situation. He is intelligent, disciplined, resourceful, and generally focused(the exception really being Shannon's death). Although Sayid's plan to ambush the Others failed, it was a better plan than Jack's 'let's go yell at Michael' plan.

With Jack kidnapped by the Others, this is a perfect time for Sayid to fill the leadership vacuum Jack left behind. I can't think of anyone better.

But then again, Sayid is one of my favorite characters, so this just may be my bias talking. I wonder who he tortures next season.

plokij

07-15-06, 02:00 PM

Yeah, i agree. Sayid has lead before. He has experience in potentially dangerous situations, and from what we have already seen, he generally makes good decisions (apart from sleeping with Shannon which eventually lead to her death :P )

losterandloster

07-15-06, 02:07 PM

Ummm, Jack.

Did I get it right? Do I win something?

Hurley4Prez

07-15-06, 03:23 PM

Sayid is by far the better leader with military training and experience. But since when have the Lostie's made a good decision about anything?

BujuPhunk

07-15-06, 04:30 PM

Every leader has their counter-part - their advisor/war general/etc. I don't think - unless we are discussing a dictatorship - that any good society has just one leader. Jack certainly knows how to take charge - he's a surgeon and thats what he does. and Sayid knows how to run an effecient well oiled machine and the two together, along with listening and considering the voices of the cabnet - ie. kate, locke, etc, would be able to set up a sucessful government. Isn't that the point of this experiment anyway?

rknorton91

07-15-06, 05:25 PM

Sayid has made emotionaly based decisions just like Jack has. The only difference is that Jack has been leading more than Sayid so we see his missteps more often. The thing is they should be working together in tandem more not not spliting apart in different factions with the whole Jack go this way with his agenda, Locke go that way, Sayid pushing this, Sawyer doing that, Meanwhile Kate plays he games as well and lets not forget Eko and Charlie. But I have a feeling it is part of the nature of the whole LOST theme the others don't seem to be totaly cohesive either but they seem to be better than our Losties and Tailies. I also still contend there are at least two different power brokers who are running the various cons going on in and around the island. I think one has semi control of the island and is trying to keep it hidden maybe and the other is trying to find it maybe and take over maybe??? So each tries to manipulate people for their purposes

Subject # 4815162342

07-15-06, 06:24 PM

With Jack kidnapped by the Others, this is a perfect time for Sayid to fill the leadership vacuum Jack left behind. I can't think of anyone better.

....hmmm this got me thinking........what if Season 3 is all about the Others brainwashing Jack,Kate and Sawyer (or 'enlightening' them,if they really are the good guys they say they are) and sending them off to go up against the remaining Losties for whatever reason......?

But.as much as he's a wishy washy shmuck,Jack's the better leader.
Sayid is too dark and mysterious,.....and too Iraqi...for all the poor white American Losties to trust him completely......Personally,I'd follow him before Jack in a HEARTBEAT,but that's just me.

*Saint*

07-15-06, 08:13 PM

Honestly, if the two partnered up, the Losties would be in the most secure position. With Sayid's military acumen and Jack's medical experience, the Losties would have it made...AND because they would be "partners" it is less likely one of them would allow the other to act impulsively...

...but of course, that would never happen.

Khan

07-15-06, 11:22 PM

If the choice was made by sheer ability, the answer would be Sayid. He's shown leadership characteristics in the opening episodes and has proven his courage, loyality and wisdom throughout the series.
Realistically he could be a serious problem because of his background, he was far too quick to torture Sawyer in S1 and he almost did things we don't want to think about to Fenry in S2. He's clearly not left his past behind and his past is particularily dangerous.

losterandloster

07-16-06, 12:35 AM

Jack is the better leader because he is a man of action, wheras Sayid is a little more intellectual and intelligent...if that makes sense. Good leaders aren't always necessarily the smartest people, they are sometimes the more outspoken and extroverted type. Which is Jack. He's the hero type, Sayid is more like an anti-hero. I think the losties would be a little too afraid of Sayid to really follow his lead.

stinkytojo

07-16-06, 12:57 AM

Sayid. I shouldn't even have to list all the reasons why.:rolleyez:

lurker315

07-16-06, 01:38 AM

Neither, but Locke wishes he could be the leader. Couldn't one of the other Lostie Redshirts step up to be the leader now that Jack and Sayid are both away from camp?

Hurley4Prez

07-16-06, 02:21 AM

Couldn't one of the other Lostie Redshirts step up to be the leader now that Jack and Sayid are both away from camp?
Now's your time to shine, Frogurt!

KateIsHot

07-16-06, 02:51 AM

With Jack gone, it is almost certain that Sayid will succeed him as leader(unless Bernard steps up again lol), so we will probably find out early in season 3 exactly what kind of leader Sayid can be.

I can see how many people would rather follow Jack than Sayid because of his depth of emotion and he genuinely does care about everyone on the island. I actually really like Jack as a character(I'm no Jack hater), especially his unrelenting need to save everyone even if they have no desire to be saved. But I think he makes a worse leader than Sayid for the exact same reasons I like his character.

It will be interesting to see what happens to Locke after the season finale because he was the number two to Jack in season 2, so how will he react if Jack is gone now? I honestly can never see the Losties trusting Locke nearly enough to lead.

LQ Jones

07-16-06, 02:56 AM

he has one quality that Jack lacks. Emotional detachment so that he can do what is necessary
Exactly.
A leader must have the ability to make difficult decisions.
Sayid has demonstrated (more than once) that he is able to push his emotions aside and focus on the objectives.
Also, a good leader might not win a popularity contest but they always have the admiration, respect, and confidence of the group.
It's Sayid hands down.

NokomisIsABadRobot

07-16-06, 03:29 AM

I would say Sayid for the following reason. On day one, he gathered the losties around and told them all they needed to gather firewood for a signal fire, stretch out tarps to gather rain for drinking water, go through the luggage for supplies.. etc etc. He deligated them into groups and sent them off to their tasks. Jack would have told them all that he was the only one capable to do it all himself.. or that he could care less who did what if anything. That sealed it for me. That and the fact that he is handy himself. He can figure out how to stretch that tarp to gather rain kinda thing. Plus he is like McGyver.
He also knows when to share info and asks for help when he needs it. He doesnt see himself. ( or portray himself) as a one man show.

solat

07-16-06, 03:57 AM

Good leaders aren't always necessarily the smartest people, they are sometimes the more outspoken and extroverted type.
I'll concede that the opposite may be true - That being smart does not necessarily make a good leader - but I can't agree with your point. I think effective leadership requires more than being loud and extroverted - intelligence is absolutely necessary. Abraham Lincoln is a wonderful example of an extremely effective leader who was intelligent, but rather softspoken and not particularly enigmatic.

While Jack might be able to mobilize people, I feel that he lacks a certain amount of common sense (just one type of intelligence). Sayid would be a wonderful leader. He's not outspoken - but when he does speak, people listen and that gives him the credibility to be a good leader.

melostmo

07-16-06, 04:33 AM

both losers
2 losers do not make a winner

melostmo

07-16-06, 04:36 AM

Sayid. I shouldn't even have to list all the reasons why.:rolleyez:

Sayid was captured by one old woman
Sayids 'black smoke' plan was an obvious failure

so, ya, you're gonna need to list the reasons

KateIsHot

07-16-06, 04:49 AM

Hurley4Prez

07-16-06, 05:00 AM

^ Definitely Frogurt.

Make that Frogurt and Bernard... the new Jack and Locke of S3.

melostmo

07-16-06, 05:02 AM

The 'Black Smoke Plan' is the biggest blemish on Sayid's resume for leader(well, unless you have a problem with the whole torture thing). Just curious melostmo, but who would you think is the best leader(out of everyone)? Even if they are all losers in your estimation.

It is a difficult ?, KIH
& yes, I definately have a problem with the torture thing

I'm going to say, with some reservation... Hurley or Locke

KateIsHot

07-16-06, 05:08 AM

We never actually saw Frogurt did we? They mentioned him, but Bernard drove him away before he could harness the power of the Frogurt.

Locke and Hurley are fairly interesting choices. Hurley would be great if they didn't have to worry about getting kidnapped or killed, since he could organize golf tournaments and other ways to have fun and kill time, while not killing each other. I don't see how Locke could lead them because in Locke's own words "A leader can't lead until he knows where he's going" and right now I don't think he knows where he's going.

melostmo

07-16-06, 05:16 AM

I see more problems with Locke, actually, than I do with Hurley
My big prob with Locke was his involvement with the computer, and his being fooled by 'Dad' .. and his ladyfriend

Hurley tho, is smart, aggressive, and he seems to have some actual courage- that he tends to hide mostly

Hurley4Prez

07-16-06, 05:23 AM

Hurley is by far one of my favorite characters, but I don't think he could cut it. He shirks the type of attitude needed to truly "lead". He couldn't even handle the responsibility of the food. It would make good television though to see how he handles it, because Jorge Garcia is such a good actor.

I can't see Locke being too effective, either (at least not after what the writer's did to him last season). Although I'm pretty sure he'll try to lead the group, and fail in typical Lockian fashion.

Without Dane

07-16-06, 05:24 AM

In my opinion there's too much Jack hate going around in general, because ultimately he's a better leader than Sayid. But, definitely not the best.

Locke, as lame he is in his backstories, is a different guy now. He was right to begin with about the hatch. In general, I can't think of a better leader on the island than the person who initially accepted the fact that why and where they are is more than a coincidence.

melostmo

07-16-06, 05:31 AM

Hey H4P,
Hurley needs to get a bit angry
like he did with Sawyer
or Danielle

Locke and the computer- took a smart guy and made him look a fool

Hurley4Prez

07-16-06, 05:33 AM

^ When he gets pissed, nobody wants to mess with the big guy. Nobody.

Maybe Rose could be a good leader, too. She's basically a sweet, fair woman, but check her out when she gets pissed at Bernard.
I think she could kick some ass.

gertie

07-16-06, 05:58 AM

Back to Jack or Sayid. I believe Sayid is such a great character, but I don’t believe he’s leader material. Some have pointed out his emotional detachment, but I see the opposite. He is not detached. He has a nagging past (Nadia and Shannon and his life in general) and is almost immune to suffering. That, to me, would be a scary thing for a leader. He would make harsh and unnecessary decisions.

Jack has a more well-rounded outlook. Remember how he found the button-pushing thing so ridiculous? He went along with it, though, to appease Locke. That shows he is aware of give-and-take. If you need an ally, let him/her have some power, too.

KateIsHot

07-16-06, 06:51 AM

Sayid also is a soldier who is used to taking orders, not giving them. Not that I don't think he would be a good leader, just playing Devil's advocate.

CENSORED

07-16-06, 01:27 PM

After reading these three pages I've come up with one clear answer....no one is the leader. You've all given both pros and cons for both (and for some others also) and in doing so have shown that they all can almost be put on the same level due to these. If they need a leader (which I fully believe there hasn't been one since the ep. where half the party went into the jungle and the other half stayed on the beach) it should only be to make one decision from everyone's thoughts. They need to work together as one leader. And I don't believe anyone want's a leader. Remember when Sawyer took all the guns (I feel in order to gain that leadership)? By the next episode, everyone was like "Yeah...whatever". They need to work together and use eachothers strengths to survive.

Sorry....getting off now:soapbox:

BujuPhunk

07-16-06, 03:08 PM

just make Eko leader and call it a day. He can get council from a higher place and he can control the black smoke monster, and his brother can lead him all around the island and tell him what he should and shouldn't do and then - wal-lah - you have a happy and content community building a church and selling heroin.
:Booky:

9mile monster

07-16-06, 05:30 PM

I'm all for Sayid being the leader. Jack does not disclose important information. He is very uncomunicative. Sayid tells the losties what is going on, but not always giving all the information. Sayid appears to think through before acting, whereas Jack acts without much thought. Being on their little island microcosim,the losties have lost their inhibitions about the type of leader they should follow. I don't think that it is easy being a leader, and most people would gladly follow someone, anyone who takes on that job and has some sensbility

It is easier to follow than to lead. There are few real leaders among them.

melostmo

07-16-06, 06:15 PM

so basically from the different opinions above:
I'll just repeat myself...

Jack vs. Sayid...
Two losers don't make a winner

LOST_523

07-16-06, 06:21 PM

....hmmm this got me thinking........what if Season 3 is all about the Others brainwashing Jack,Kate and Sawyer (or 'enlightening' them,if they really are the good guys they say they are) and sending them off to go up against the remaining Losties for whatever reason.....?

yea lets see about this...

Jack Kate Sawyer Tom Klugh Fenry Him and all the rest of the others,
VS
Sayid Jin Sun Charlie Locke* Desmond Claire Aaron Ecko* Rose Bernard and the rest of the Redshirts and Losties.

Who will win?

melostmo

07-16-06, 06:28 PM

HENRY

Sawyersgrl

07-16-06, 06:42 PM

you have a happy and content community building a church and selling heroin.

:Booky:

AH, just like my old neighborhood.

latenac

07-17-06, 03:32 PM

Currently rewatching season 1 and Sayid would be my vote out of the lot of them. Even with season 2 taken into consideration. He'd be a reluctant leader though. He's good at the details, trying to piece things together and telling who's lying.

Jack just has doctor skills and the ability to look like he's about to cry at any moment. Not enough to make him a good leader really.

Locke, well Locke has problems. His own underlying uncertainity. And you certainly don't want a leader shouting at you, "Don't tell me what to do!" anytime you make a suggestion he doesnt like.

Rose annoys the crap out of me.

Hurley, no. He does have a good sense of things though. But I don't think he'd make a good leader.

Kate, no.

Sawyer - if he weren't so well Sawyer, he actually is fairly sensible.

Sun - maybe.

But really overall they need to set up a communist collective so the strengths of all can be utilized and the weaknesses of all muted.

BujuPhunk

07-17-06, 09:01 PM

seriously - nobody even wants to consider Eko??

Jin'srealwife

07-17-06, 09:45 PM

^^I would consider Eko...he definitely seems to know a lot...

But since this thread asked about Jack and Sayid...I would definitley say SAYID...Jack is really starting to get on my nerve! (I am halfway through season two) He is very ego driven....Sayid is more rational, more knowledgeable and more humble....not to mention he is GORGEOUS!

melostmo

07-18-06, 12:47 AM

seriously - nobody even wants to consider Eko??

you're kidding

Hurley4Prez

07-18-06, 01:06 AM

^ My thoughts exactly.

Sawyersgrl

07-18-06, 01:16 AM

I dont think that any of the men could lead.

Sun is the strongest of all.

IN FACT......let Sun, Kate and Danielle lead them. They have more sense than most.

Sawyersgrl

07-18-06, 01:19 AM

Eko is out of his mind............he's strong, and manly, and easy on the eyes, but he's a lunatic.

Khan

07-18-06, 02:28 AM

While I find Eko a good character, so far, I dismiss him as the leader. If they stay true to real life, those warlords can be hell on earth. He may be changing but I wouldn't trust him yet.
Since he was taken as a child and his only saving grace would be a solid upbringing until that point in his life.
He also has his redemption road being front and center in his life, he wouldn't want to be leader, surely he'd turn it over to someone else.

melostmo

07-18-06, 02:48 AM

I think Eko was beginning to straighten out
but then got all screwed in the head
forgot his church building
became obsessed with the computer
and never came clean with our Losties about his priest farce

edit- same for Locke...
smart but computer 'grabbed' his brains

BujuPhunk

07-18-06, 03:13 AM

ok - but I love his spiritual journey, which I know he isn't finished with yet. I just tried to change the thread into who is your favorite character.
:ImLost:haha.

But I do like the Sun idea. She is one smart dudette!
But, again I am veering from the threaded path - between Jack and Sayid, I still say they would have to work as two heads as one to make it work.

melostmo

07-18-06, 03:19 AM

I like Sun... a lot :goodvibes

if I had to really trust 2 losties.. it would be Hurley & Sun

Hurley4Prez

07-18-06, 05:20 AM

ok - but I love his spiritual journey, which I know he isn't finished with yet. As a Buddhist, I'd say all of the characters are on a spiritual journey of sorts. This being LOST and all. Eko's artificial priesthood and misquoted biblical references don't make him any more "spiritual" than anyone else on the island, IMHO. Maybe a bit more "religious", but that's about it. *shrugs*

I'm enjoying everyone's spiritual journey on the island. Even approaching S3, nobodies reaching the finish line.

Subject # 4815162342

07-18-06, 06:42 AM

I like Sun... a lot :goodvibes

if I had to really trust 2 losties.. it would be Hurley & Sun

My GOD!!!!!............for once,melostmo,I COMPLETELY AND 100% agree with you.

..........it feels nice.

....................now keep sayin' stuff I agree with.

melostmo

07-18-06, 07:09 AM

I'll try...
If Boone were still alive, I probably would have trusted him also...
even tho I realize he was not well liked by members

CENSORED

07-18-06, 11:39 AM

As a Buddhist, I'd say all of the characters are on a spiritual journey of sorts. This being LOST and all. Eko's artificial priesthood and misquoted biblical references don't make him any more "spiritual" than anyone else on the island, IMHO. Maybe a bit more "religious", but that's about it. *shrugs*

I'm enjoying everyone's spiritual journey on the island. Even approaching S3, nobodies reaching the finish line.

I'd have to disagree. Because Eko's priesthood was unwanted by him, he could just let it go now that he's on the island. But he has taken a complete "spiritual" turn into how he does everything now, and he continues to grow that way. I don't see that out of everyone at all. Not to mention the fact the man was building a church....but how many people do you think would have shown up? (Sorry, just a little side thought there)

LAH LAH

07-18-06, 02:05 PM

Returning to the original question of Jack vs. Sayid as a leader...My vote is for Jack...I don't exactly like him the best, but the losties trust and relate to him better. Sayid would be the better technical leader, but these losties needed someone they trust and who makes them feel safe...and TPTB did a good job of creating that in Jack.

For what it is worth...:Cheers:

Jin'srealwife

07-18-06, 03:45 PM

I dont think that any of the men could lead.

Sun is the strongest of all.

IN FACT......let Sun, Kate and Danielle lead them. They have more sense than most.

Yeah this is a good pick...Sun is really together!

Hurley4Prez

07-18-06, 06:47 PM

I'd have to disagree. Because Eko's priesthood was unwanted by him, he could just let it go now that he's on the island. But he has taken a complete "spiritual" turn into how he does everything now, and he continues to grow that way. I don't see that out of everyone at all. Not to mention the fact the man was building a church....but how many people do you think would have shown up? (Sorry, just a little side thought there) Again, through the use of FB's and current events on the island, I believe LOST has always been about each character's spiritual journey. I guess I'd see Locke as being the most preoccupied with this during S1, when the faith vs. science theme was introduced (before Eko ever appeared). Perhaps your understanding of spirituality is far different than mine, or Locke's, or other Losties. I don't think one necessarily needs a religion to be on a spiritual journey, nor do they need to incredibly vocal about it.

And IMHO, whether anyone attended the church or not doesn't mean a thing. If they were Catholic, I'm sure they would have. But if they weren't (perhaps not even Christian at all), why would they? If Sayid built a mosque on the island and Eko didn't show, would that make him any less "spiritual"?
Eko definitely has that dimension to him, and it's been interesting to see how his faith has evolved during his time there. But IMHO, being a priest, building a church (or going to one), and quoting (usually incorrectly) memorized bible verses doesn't make him "more" or "less" spiritual than anyone else, although it's undoubtedly an important aspect of his life to him.
It's also apparent that the religion of the viewer affects the way we perceive these things on the show. While I see everything as a spiritual experience (especially on LOST), a typical monotheistic Christian will view Eko (and possibly Charlie) as the only viable choice because it fits their preconceived notions of what constitutes spirituality and devotion.
I'm painting with a broad brush here with that statement, but considering the responses to my posts, I think it's somewhat warranted.

LAN

07-18-06, 08:25 PM

Between Jack and Sayid, I would agree with LAH. I think Sayid is incredibly intelligent, but in specific ways...in things he is trained in. Radio technology, torture, armed strategy etc. But once you get him out of his comfort zone, i dont think of him as a leader.

I dont think Jack is a natural leader since he doesnt like to get in the middle of politics and wants to be liked by everyone, but when the chips were down, and somebody needed to step up, he did. That shows a lot of courage to me and is the sign of a natural leader.

Given different circumstances, i would say Sun would make a great leader. She has a lot of attributes of a great leader of say a world power, in that she is both intelligent and charismatic. So I think in areas like international affairs, she would excel. In a remote island setting with Lord of the Flies type politics going on, I think her ability to lead is lessened.

I also think if Sawyer wasnt so selfish, he would make a great leader as well. He has incredible strategic skills, he is charismatic, even though he tries not to, he is tough and he is smart. Another flaw he has is that he is always the first one to get wounded, just a matter of luck, but when it comes to your leader you want someone who has better luck and will be around for awhile.

Eko is just a little too out there to lead effectively. There is a fine line between spirituality and religion, and I dont want to offend anyone, but it seems like he puts too much faith in his visions, follows his heart more often than his mind.

In the vein of throwing out a random idea....I think that Desmond could make a pretty good leader. He is intelligent, decisive and tough. Something all the losties need in a leader.

LAN

Khan

07-19-06, 12:27 AM

Very good points lostaginnaturally.
I think Desmond could be problem though, his drinking coupled with the fact he's not stable after been locked away in the hatch and his beliefs about the world outside of the Island weaken him considerably.

KateIsHot

07-19-06, 12:55 AM

If I were on the island I would follow:

In Season 1, Locke, but of course that probably means I would be dead(RIP Boone).

Overall, Sayid would be my first choice, and my second choice would be Jack. Then again, you probably figured that out because I started this thread.

melostmo

07-19-06, 04:32 AM

In the vein of throwing out a random idea....I think that Desmond could make a pretty good leader. He is intelligent, decisive and tough. Something all the losties need in a leader.

LAN

WOW, you are definately watching a different LOST version than ME

Des is probably the most insane dude on the island
also:
a drunk
an ex con
dishonorable discharge
left his beautiful woman
no job
no money
shoots holes in his own boat
shoots at our lost friends
stays in hatch for years pushing buttons

KateIsHot

07-19-06, 06:26 AM

Agreed melostmo. Desmond is pretty unstable. Can't really blame him, he has had to push a button every 108 minutes by himself for God knows how long(God doesn't see this place though).

Are you considered an ex con if you are court marshalled(Or the British equivalent)?

melostmo

07-19-06, 07:30 AM

Agreed melostmo. Desmond is pretty unstable.

Are you considered an ex con if you are court marshalled(Or the British equivalent)?

well he was in a British Prison... more than a short while, it would seem

Jessicaswanlake

07-19-06, 06:50 PM

LAN

07-19-06, 07:17 PM

WOW, you are definately watching a different LOST version than ME I dont have Hi-Def, maybe thats it?

Des is probably the most insane dude on the island
also: Seems to me it is sort of temporary insanity from going through all of the stuff that he has recently.
a drunk Cant tell if he was a drunk before he got to the island or not. It could be he took up drinking, a la Kelvin, after he thought the rest of his life would probably consist of pushing a button every 108 minutes. But to your point, if his drinking is alcoholism, then yeah, not an ideal leader. Perhaps this is temporary just like his insanity. I can hear my arguments stretching as I speak.
an ex con In classic Lost fashion, who knows why he was arrested. Likely had to do with his army discharge, but beyond that its pure speculation. My guess is in Season 3 we see why he was arrested, and likely isnt a true criminal.
dishonorable discharge
left his beautiful woman I think he always intended to get back to her. As we saw, even to his possible last moment, he clung to her memory. So my guess is he was planning on winning Widmore's race, in order to "get his honor" back...and then try to revamp his relationship with Pen.
no job
no money
shoots holes in his own boat This was more out of desperation and drunkenness than anything else.
shoots at our lost friends He didnt know they were out there. I think he was just shooting randomly. Not proof he's not crazy, just sayin....
stays in hatch for years pushing buttons He thought he was saving the world. Locke did the same thing, do you think he's crazy? Nevermind, don't answer that.

LAN