Passing the time till 10-4

[Susan B Anthony]

Since we evidently have absolutely nothing to discuss until October 4, let's speculate....

Based on our nearly complete ignorance and inability to read the inscrutable minds of TPTB, what do you see as the best and worst possible scenarios for where they can take Locke this season? I say our ignorance is only nearly complete, because there have been little hints dropped in interviews, articles etc by producers, writers, and even actors (TOQ has made it pretty clear that he was not happy with Locke's development last season).

So speculate away. Big directions (back to S1 glory or still floundering), little directions (go searching for SkJate or keep exploring the island), relationships (still fighting with Jack? back on good terms with Charlie, Eko, etc.? confronting Fenry?) etc. etc. Or throw out your dream scenario, of where you HOPE against hope that he will go, knowing TPTB will never take it there :crossfing . Or your nightmare scenario, that will make you turn off the tube for good :banghead:.

Just looking for conversation, folks. (Am I coming across too needy? Desperation is so unattractive in a character forum.)

[Khan]

For me the best scenario would be for Locke to once again use his skills and that seemingly endless store of knowledge he has about nearly everything for the betterment of the group.
He's a seeker by nature so I can see him turning his attention to finding out all about Dharma, and possibly even wanting to join them in time.
Being a master manipulator it would make sense for him to return to his old ways to get what he wants. With Sawyer, Kate and Jack gone someone is going to have to be a leader, but Locke is best as the power behind the throne, using his uncanny insight in what drives the people he meets for control. Arguing with Jack is getting old, what he should do now is work to topple him, and strenthen his replacement. I'm not saying whoever takes the lead will be better, but it suits Locke to do it for what he believes is right. After his experience with the button he may be even more stubborn when it comes to his beliefs.
The worse for him would be to sit sulking somewhere because he lost his faith, or go off alone to find a purpose again. He desperately searched for a place to belong, to be strong and to be in control. He found all of those things without the hatch or the button when he became a force in the lives of the Losties. To have him return a whipped puppy would to much for me to him interesting anymore.
I don't think he's a good guy, how bad he is remains a mystery, but it's unlikely he's truely evil like some of the Others may be so he adds dangerous uncertain spice to the brew.
BTW Susan B Anthonythis thread is a great idea, it should be done with all of the characters.

[Susan B Anthony]

Khan, don't you think Locke is going to have to somehow sort out his own faith/loss-of-faith issues? What is he going to do with "I was right before when I thought I was right, but then I started thinking I was wrong, but I was wrong when I thought I was wrong." You are dead on that he has the potential to go off sulking somewhere, having completely lost his confidence. That would be worst case scenario.

When Eko first came on, it seemed he was going to be the balance for Locke, but I now think they are too much alike for that. Eko seems to have the same all-or-nothing approach to things. (For example, first he tells Locke, "Don't mistake coincidence for fate," then he is telling Charlie that if they don't push the button, everyone on the island will die (which turned out to be wrong, by the way)).

I think Desmond is probably a better partner for Locke, since he has the capacity to believe (unlike Jack) but he also tempers it by asking questions and applying logic (unlike anyone else on the island).

Who I want Locke to pair up with as a foil/partner/yin-yang this season is Fenry. I don't think Locke is done with that relationship, and I don't think he will be satisfied until he finds out how much of what Fenry was saying at the hatch (may it rest in peace) was true. I foresee (hope for) a situation in which Locke is put to the test re: his promise to protect Fenry "no matter what."

As for what will keep the character interesting, I like the fact that we never know if Locke will do "the right thing." He is willing to put others at risk to achieve his objective. He is willing to manipulate others for his own ends. He is capable of incredible insight and also complete blindness regarding other people. In S1, when Locke seemed to know more than he was telling, we all believed it was true. In S2, this second sight got a little cloudy. I would have followed S1 Locke into the sun. I would follow S2 Locke across a busy intersection, but I would also keep any eye out for cars.

[boonian androphile]

Maybe Locke will see that Fenry and his allies "believe in something---in the true path of the Island" and will join/learn from them in some way.

I still dont know what to make of the later Locke & Desmond experience, except I didnt like it much. At least the hatch perished in appliance and dish debris. Thank God...

I too would like to see Locke regain his powers from before. Maybe his return to the sunshine will refacilitate that. We saw a taste of this with the Locke and Eko dream merge and ? find---and that was actually exciting. Perhaps Locke will attempt to communicate with old Smoky, in an effort to assuage his doubt and guilt. That would be rather cool...

[sgtdraino]

Great idea for a thread. :)

I'd say the WORST direction they could take Locke in, would be putting him back in the wheelchair more-or-less permanently. This resulting from the theory that the magnetic anomalie in the hatch had something to do with keeping the 815s healed. That would SUCK.

I think the best direction they could take Locke in, is to continue the Gilgamesh/Enkidu parallels with him and Eko, delving more and more deeply into uncovering whatever mysteries lay at the (metaphorical) center of the island. I want to see them confront Smokey, and eventually meet the Degroots and/or Hanso and/or Wickman. Eko (even though I really like the character) will eventually get killed in his adventures alongside Locke, continuing the Enkidu parallels, and much drama will ensue. :)

[Khan]

Khan, don't you think Locke is going to have to somehow sort out his own faith/loss-of-faith issues? What is he going to do with "I was right before when I thought I was right, but then I started thinking I was wrong, but I was wrong when I thought I was wrong." You are dead on that he has the potential to go off sulking somewhere, having completely lost his confidence. That would be worst case scenario.
I thought about bringing up the fact he now has a huge faith issue to sort out, and it will have to be addressed. But I'm thinking he has been chained to the hatch for so long, his former hunter/provider status wiped out, virtually emasculated by Jack, shamed by Sawyer, it could make getting back to where he started his biggest priority.
He's also going to have to face a camp with the most influential people missing, Locke is a man of action so I think he'll want to get involved quickly. It won't take long for him to have faith again, he may even believe blowing the hatch up was part of his destiny.

Who I want Locke to pair up with as a foil/partner/yin-yang this season is Fenry. I don't think Locke is done with that relationship, and I don't think he will be satisfied until he finds out how much of what Fenry was saying at the hatch (may it rest in peace) was true. I foresee (hope for) a situation in which Locke is put to the test re: his promise to protect Fenry "no matter what."
Now those two are a pair. He wants to know everything about the Island, and the Others have so much imformation. I don't think it would be a friendship with much trust though, Locke still has his very dark side and Fenry could wind up as a means to an end in Lockes quest to get to the heart of his destiny.

[m130385]

What do you think locke will be like in season 3 will the old locke return the man of faith. Or will he remain the same as in season 2 when he lost intrest in the hatch.
I think he will try to become the new leader of the losties as jack is in captivity and may well sabotage any attempts to rescue sawyer kate and jack.

[rer1972]

I forsee some conflicts between Locke and Sayid. Possibly Sayid trying to find a way to save Jack, Kate & Sawyer or going after the others; while Locke is intent on digging in and just saving themselves. This could tear the camp appart.:scratchch

[Hodgepodge]

Like the majority of you, I'm glad the "hatch" is gone (presumably). Locke inputting the numbers and pushing the button got old quick.

I haven't really thought about how the kidnapping of Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sawyer, and Jack is going to play out. But, if Hurley is allowed to report the incident to the other Losties, I'm hoping Locke leads the posse to the rescue. Something like this is the only way to extricate the character from the doldrums of S2.

Another scenario I'm leaning toward is Locke leaving the group, ala Sayid, to redeem himself. Not sure what this journey will entail, but this would be a way to take him back to his island roots. Great White Hunter!

I'm hoping sometime during S3, I'll be able to redone my old Locke avatar. I really miss the guy. In more ways than one!

[island_maverick]

Not a theory. Moving to GD.

[Lord SteveO]

I see it as going thus:

Eko, now "reborn" as a man with a mission (a mission he got whne they found the observation station) will begin to turn into what Locke was in S2. He'll be more spiritually connected with the island, thinking it is his and everyone elses missions to protect whatever was going on before.

Locke, obviously pissed off with the island in general will not be the same again. He thought the button was vital, but he now sees thing otherwise. Even though things have gone pear shapped i doubt he'll go back to his old ways. He'll want to know what is going on with the island, but he won't have faith in it.

Sayid will probably take lead role within the remaining losties. He's a practical guy, he doesn't mess about and if someone needs killing or something needs finding i believe he'll get it done. Now that people are captured/off the island/potentially dead, he'll need to make some serious decisions.

Losts of conflict on the way, and i can see the camp being strained a lot this season, not just because of the others or whatever. More because they've lost so many people, whom they've lived with for over a month on the island with.

[dp2]

The magnetic eruption will have melded Locke and Eko into the Ekolocke -- not the same being as the frequent poster to these boards of the same name,but a multi-headed, many-limbed abomination, part flesh, part metal. It will roam the island, occasionally eating stray survivors and mating with Vincent, until eventually having an island-destroying battle to the death with the Monster in the series finale as the rescue chopper barely escapes.

[Hodgepodge]

We're having this same discussion in the Terry O'Quinn - Locke (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=29) forum. I'm going to merge the two threads. Lets continue the discussion there. :)

[LPU]

Well, he'll have a better tan. I think he'll be closer to S1 Locke in terms of adventure goes, but there's way too much confusion and anger in him at the end of S2 for him to completely regain that form.

[philosopher]

For me the best scenario would be for Locke to once again use his skills and that seemingly endless store of knowledge he has about nearly everything for the betterment of the group.
He's a seeker by nature so I can see him turning his attention to finding out all about Dharma, and possibly even wanting to join them in time.
Being a master manipulator it would make sense for him to return to his old ways to get what he wants. With Sawyer, Kate and Jack gone someone is going to have to be a leader, but Locke is best as the power behind the throne, using his uncanny insight in what drives the people he meets for control. Arguing with Jack is getting old, what he should do now is work to topple him, and strenthen his replacement. I'm not saying whoever takes the lead will be better, but it suits Locke to do it for what he believes is right. After his experience with the button he may be even more stubborn when it comes to his beliefs.
The worse for him would be to sit sulking somewhere because he lost his faith, or go off alone to find a purpose again. He desperately searched for a place to belong, to be strong and to be in control. He found all of those things without the hatch or the button when he became a force in the lives of the Losties. To have him return a whipped puppy would to much for me to him interesting anymore.
I don't think he's a good guy, how bad he is remains a mystery, but it's unlikely he's truely evil like some of the Others may be so he adds dangerous uncertain spice to the brew.
BTW Susan B Anthonythis thread is a great idea, it should be done with all of the characters.

Locke is definitely a good guy he's just had a pathetic life but he kept believing that something great would happen to him one day. So when he ends up on the island and meets the monster he believes this is his destiny. But then after Boone died and he saw the orientation tape with Eko his lost his faith again and feels manipulated again (like he did when his father made him give him his kidney). He told Eko in the last episode though that he was wrong, so I would assume that he has found his faith again in whatever it is that he believes in.
Why is everyone so sure though that Locke and the other two survived the explosion or whatever else happened at the Swan Station?

[Hodgepodge]

Philosopher, let me welcome you to Lost-TV. I'm sure you're going to enjoy the community. Make sure to read the New Member Welcome (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7875) post, and introduce yourself in the same thread. Now to your post!


...Why is everyone so sure though that Locke and the other two survived the explosion or whatever else happened at the Swan Station?Philosopher, I don't read spoilers. I'm allergic to them. I run from them like the plague. So, this is just my gut feeling. I don't know what happen after Desmond turned that key, but I don't think TPTB would kill Locke. :pray:

And again, :welcome:

[Khan]

I suppose it depends on your definition of good. He sicced Sayid on Sawyer, gave him a knife when he knew he was the guilty party.
He decided hit Boone in the head and tied him up in spite of the dangers present on the Island, all because of his beliefs. That's very wrong and dangerous to me.
Why give Sayid a weapon if he didn't expect him to use it, and why risk a mans life to teach them a lesson you feel they need to learn?
He also may have caused Boones death by putting a man with serious internal injuries over his shoulder and running through the jungle. He should have brought the doctor to Boone, he did it only to cover his obsession with the hatch because he didn't want anyone else to know about it.
He is wrapped up in his destiny and in spite of his good intentions at times he'll has shown the willingness to throw away anyones life who doesn't fit with what he feels is right for the situation or fulfill his purpose.
I like him as character, but he can't be trusted because he is too unstable and selfserving.

[Z054J]

The key to understanding or predicting Locke's direction in S3 is his realization that Fenry was messing with his mind. He realizes that Fenry screwed him over, lied to him about not entering the code, and he very flatly says: I was wrong.

Or rather, Locke was RIGHT. He was previously right that the button mattered. But now, his question must be: What was I right ABOUT?

I see there developing a triad of people: Locke, Desmond and Eko - all working together to sort out the Dharma mysteries.

Locke will have replaced his mystical island-based faith with a drive to figure out just what the hell is going on, who's in charge, why was this place built.

Eko will maintain his priestly view that relates to his true purpose, using circumstances as a vehicle.

Desmond will be useful simply because of his experience, familiarity with the blast door map, the culture of the hatch and so forth.

To me, this is the best possible direction for Locke.

---

The worst has already been stated. Locke could drag about moping about his wrecked beliefs, or be returned to his chair.

[Khan]

I believe he will seek to find out all there can be known about the Island.
Locke and always will be a focused man, he was obsessive about his father, to the place where he lost his on true relationship. He's been obsessive about the Island and what it wants from him.
I've no doubt the Others are in his cross hairs and he will be relentless in his pursuit of thier knowledge.

[philosopher]

Philosopher, let me welcome you to Lost-TV. I'm sure you're going to enjoy the community. Make sure to read the New Member Welcome (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7875) post, and introduce yourself in the same thread. Now to your post!


Philosopher, I don't read spoilers. I'm allergic to them. I run from them like the plague. So, this is just my gut feeling. I don't know what happen after Desmond turned that key, but I don't think TPTB would kill Locke. :pray:

And again, :welcome:

Thanks for the welcome!

[Lost_RuNNeR]

nother scenario I'm leaning toward is Locke leaving the group, ala Sayid, to redeem himself. Not sure what this journey will entail, but this would be a way to take him back to his island roots. Great White Hunter!

Or - He could team up with Sayid, having returned from a rather disturbing boat ride. Two angry people teaming up to get Jack, Sawyer and Kate back. Well, maybe not Sawyer lol...

Locke will have replaced his mystical island-based faith with a drive to figure out just what the hell is going on, who's in charge, why was this place built.

Eko will maintain his priestly view that relates to his true purpose, using circumstances as a vehicle.

Desmond will be useful simply because of his experience, familiarity with the blast door map, the culture of the hatch and so forth.


Rooting for this... That'd be some smart storytelling!

[sgtdraino]

Locke, obviously pissed off with the island in general will not be the same again. He thought the button was vital, but he now sees thing otherwise.

Actually, from "I was wrong" at the end of S2, Locke now obviously realizes the button WAS vital.

I suppose it depends on your definition of good. He sicced Sayid on Sawyer, gave him a knife when he knew he was the guilty party.

Locke gave Sayid a knife for protection, not to go attacking or torturing other people. Did Locke even know Sayid was a torturer at that point? Not to my knowledge. If anything, giving Sayid a knife made it more dangerous for Locke to get the drop on him in the future.

He decided hit Boone in the head and tied him up in spite of the dangers present on the Island, all because of his beliefs. That's very wrong and dangerous to me.

To me, that was Locke at the height of his connection with the island. I'm convinced he got some sort of vision from the island that told him he needed to do that. Unfortunately, since it wasn't his episode, we aren't privy to whatever message he might have received.

Why give Sayid a weapon if he didn't expect him to use it,

He told him why he was giving it to him, and it was a good and legitimate reason.

and why risk a mans life to teach them a lesson you feel they need to learn?

Was his life ever really at risk? Just how much knowledge did Locke have about the area and situation? Hard to say.

He also may have caused Boones death by putting a man with serious internal injuries over his shoulder and running through the jungle. He should have brought the doctor to Boone,

Boone died from blood pooling in his LEG, not body parts suspended on Locke's shoulder. Bringing the doctor to Boone would have meant taking TWICE as long (going, then coming back) to get Boone help. It was a tough call with little time to ponder, and ultimately Boone would have died either way.

he did it only to cover his obsession with the hatch because he didn't want anyone else to know about it.

The hatch was nowhere near the plane. Locke could have brought somebody to the plane and still kept the hatch a secret.

He is wrapped up in his destiny and in spite of his good intentions at times he'll has shown the willingness to throw away anyones life who doesn't fit with what he feels is right for the situation or fulfill his purpose.

Locke's decisions are almost always wrapped up in whatever he thinks is best for the group as a whole. He has little regard for his own well-being, to the point of letting himself be dragged down a hole in spite of clearly being terrified about what is happening to him. True, Locke can sometimes be ruthless if he thinks that purpose serves the greater good. But ultimately he does what any of us should do: He does what he thinks is right and necessary.

I like him as character, but he can't be trusted because he is too unstable and selfserving.

I don't think he's self-serving at all. :)

Sorry for the slight thread-jack! I just can't help jumping to the defense of the Locke-meister! :)

[Khan]

Locke gave Sayid a knife for protection, not to go attacking or torturing other people. Did Locke even know Sayid was a torturer at that point? Not to my knowledge. If anything, giving Sayid a knife made it more dangerous for Locke to get the drop on him in the future.

He told him why he was giving it to him, and it was a good and legitimate reason.
He knew Sawyer did not hit Sayid because he was the one who was guilty of that.. He clearly planted the idea in Sayid's head to get himself divert attention from himself and he aimed him at an innocent person. Sayid did not use the knife to torture Sawyer, he tried to kill him with it. If Locke had not decieved him there would have been no need for Sayid to protect himself. He knew at that point the man was angry and going after Sawyer for what he did. He didn't have to make matters worse by almost causing a man to be killed for his deception.
To me, that was Locke at the height of his connection with the island. I'm convinced he got some sort of vision from the island that told him he needed to do that. Unfortunately, since it wasn't his episode, we aren't privy to whatever message he might have received.
I don't believe in his connection, I'm not an earth worshipper. I believe he may be psychic and in touch with the natural , but his Island connection seems to have grown out of his spiritual search that began before they crashed. He obviously was into certain Aborigine or Native American beliefs. I have no reason to think his clunking Boone on the head came from a vision, it probably came from his own choice of what was best for Boone.
Was his life ever really at risk? Just how much knowledge did Locke have about the area and situation? Hard to say.
He may believe in the "monster" as force for good, but something killed the pilot, polar bears are dangerous, and those are just two of the things they've encountered, there could be snakes etc. How safe even in ordinary wooded area is anyone tied up? If you've you've ever spent time in the forest you know it's not, besides who gave him the right to do it? He's not Boones God, he was wrong to take that much control over another person because he thought it right.
Boone died from blood pooling in his LEG, not body parts suspended on Locke's shoulder. Bringing the doctor to Boone would have meant taking TWICE as long (going, then coming back) to get Boone help. It was a tough call with little time to ponder, and ultimately Boone would have died either way.
That was the injury that had to be tended to first, but I'll defer to someone with more medical training about that. If you get into an accident they put you on a back board before moving you, Locke could not have known how bad Boone's injuries were, but he had to know they were serious. The only reason he moved him was to hide what he was doing, as he pointed out Boone was an Island sacrifice.
The hatch was nowhere near the plane. Locke could have brought somebody to the plane and still kept the hatch a secret.
He was clearly hiding it from the rest, as he did everything else in service to the Island.
Locke's decisions are almost always wrapped up in whatever he thinks is best for the group as a whole. He has little regard for his own well-being, to the point of letting himself be dragged down a hole in spite of clearly being terrified about what is happening to him. True, Locke can sometimes be ruthless if he thinks that purpose serves the greater good. But ultimately he does what any of us should do: He does what he thinks is right and necessary.
Every totalitarian, oppressive regime uses the excuse of doing it for the greater good for every right they take, for every group they destroy. Nations take people out everyday for torture and death, all for the greater good.
Because he chosses to risk himself for his beliefs is one thing, but when he starts to force them on others, then he's wrong. You don't know my religion but what if I felt you and everyone else had to believe as I do because it will be best for all? Of course I think it would be best for all or I wouldn't believe it. Biut I think people would be quick to protest that it would be wrong for me to force others to believe as I do.
I don't think he's self-serving at all. :)
Oddly enough I can agree with that to a degree, he believes he's doing it for everyone, but he's really doing it out of his personal quest.
Please don't get me wrong, I think Locke is a great character and I hope they keep him until the end. He has wisdom, skill, intelligence and wonderfully played by TQ. To get back to the point of the thread I hope they use more of those things this year, for good or bad.