Desmond the Sailor Man

[Navigator]

I keep wondering how Desmond managed to end up back at the island? As a sailor qualified to enter a round-the-world race he sure shouldn’t have. Understood that the Lost island is purely fictional and exists only in the mind of the writers. However, if they are playing fair with the audience and not just tossing out random ideas, the information presented in the program should be valid at least within the world of the TV show.

So - Desmond says he sailed directly west (270 magnetic) at 9 knots for two weeks, but one week should have brought him to Fiji. This is interesting because it implies he knows, or thinks he knows, where he started from relative to Fiji. In other words, the location of the Lost island. OK, the reciprocal of 270 is 090, so back tracking Desmond's intended route and speed (heading 090 @ 9kt x 24hr x 7days = 1512 nm) puts his start point someplace about 250nm east of the Cook Island group in the general vicinity of S 24d 14m/W 155d 19m.

So how come after two weeks he ends up back at the island and is surprised. He shouldn’t be. In fact he should have been continually correcting his course to see that such a thing did not happen. How?

Desmond is engaged in a round-the-world sailboat race which means that he should know at least the rudiments of celestial navigation. Failing that, he absolutely has to know how to shoot a fix, at least how to take a noon sight. Since he has a watch he can also take a whack at figuring out his longitude. This would give him at least a general idea of where he is and what direction he is headed in. This would allow him to maintain a pretty constant heading away from the island, correcting as needed to avoid circling back.

But, suppose that Desmond dropped his sextant overboard, has no gyrocompass, his watch stopped and he is relying entirely on GPS (Global Positioning System) navigation or, worse yet, magnetic compass; both of which have somehow been gimmicked by the island influence to lead him back to the island. Even a neophyte sailor knows that the sun rises in the east and sets in the west. So he has to be heading more-or-less directly into the sunset. It doesn't take much to notice that the sunset is moving around the horizon each day and when the boat is headed into the sunrise even the dimmest should get a clue. Another problem is that he is in a sailboat and his progress depends on the winds. If he is maintaining a steady 9k then the winds must be pretty consistent. But in order to bring him back to the island the prevailing winds need to keep changing direction which should clue him that something weird is going on. Since he has a sailboat and depends on the wind he needs to have excellent knowledge of the seasonal winds and that can also help him keep his course.

Maybe I am missing something, otherwise I guess that he is affected by the lackadaisical, get-along-go-along attitude that seems to affect all the Losties, forgot everything he knew about sailing and just numbly followed his magnetic compass back to the island.

[eldirion]

I think the intended point was that he was sailing straight and still ended back at the island...hence the "snowglobe" comment.

[marshall2u]

So - Desmond says he sailed directly west (270 magnetic) at 9 knots for two weeks, but one week should have brought him to Fiji. This is interesting because it implies he knows, or thinks he knows, where he started from relative to Fiji.

I certainly don't know how he ended back where he started. It sure seems as though it will be hard to explain in any reasonable way, given that he is an accomplished sailor.

As far as where he "thinks" he started from, it's because he was charting his course up until the time he ended up at the island.

What I don't understand is why nobody asked him where he thought they were. There has been all this talk about figuring where the island is on this message board. You would think that the people on the island would ask HIM where they were. He should know exactly where they are. The people on the plane didn't know because they were flying off course for hundreds of miles or more.

Also, if every vehicle that comes near the island is drawn to it, ie: airplanes, sailing ships, and baloons, you would think there would many more marooned people on the island. I'm sure many vehicles have passed the island in the last 100 years. And, as far as we can tell, the baloon and Dez's ship weren't attracted to the island because of the timer counting down, unlike Flight 815. Maybe they came in at the exact opposite of the 325 heading it takes to exit the area?

One last point. Assuming that Dez was using a combination of visual and gps/magnetic navigation, how far did he get from the island before he started to go off course? I'm sure it wasn't in the first stages, when he could still see the island. So, does that mean that his compass wasn't giving him incorrect info in the beggining? When does the effect of the island start to take place? Another assumption is that the island doesn't control the position of the sun in the sky.

[interplanetjanet]

It's possible, if he depended on the magnetic compass and just went above deck to adjust the sails, stonedrunk, he could go in a circle and not notice the compass didn't match the sky. (Assumes that being outside after 3 years in the hatch left him very uncomfortable out on the open deck.) I doubt GPS satellites can get within the island's "field" whatever that may be.

Or he sailed using conventional navigation (by the sun, stars, etc) and still wound up back where he started, in which case something very weird is going on.

I'm really hoping he clarifies his sailing technique when we see him again. He knew the magnet affected his fillings; he shouldn't have trusted to just a magnetic compass.

[Badger]

Navigator: good points, many of which I touched upon and explained in some depth in earlier posts.

Below is some information I posted after the S2 finale, although greatly condensed and edited to fit with this thread.

Desmond likely knew the magnetic declination is 16 degrees East because he knew about where on planet Earth he was. If he had seen Danielle's map he would have noted the fact it said 60 degrees East and knew that meant deviation, since 60 degrees East declination is nonsensical.

To steer a course of 270 True he would have calculated that he would need to steer a compass heading which took into account the 16 degrees of East declination as well as the 60 degrees of deviation. His compass heading would then be 194 degrees and that is what he should've steered. Since "East is least and West is best".

Recall the compass needle points toward magnetic North and Desmond wanted to sail True West. Therefore he needed to subtract any Easterly declination and deviation. In this case 16 degrees declination and 60 degrees deviation, for a total of 76 degrees.

Note: 16 degrees of declination is typical for the lat. & long. in that part of the world. Again, as a sailor, Desmond should have known that.

If his boat was not equipped with a GPS system or the GPS signal from the satellites was being interferred with, either intentionally or otherwise, it would have been useless.

If he did not have a Sextant or the tables and charts needed, along with an accurate chronometer, it too wouldn't have done him any good.

That leaves celestial navigation, which of course is only useful at night, assuming there are a sufficient number of navigable stars and constellations visible.

However, that leaves an explanation as to why he would sail toward the rising Sun (east) when the Sun obviously sets in the west.

To put it simply: if celestial navigation (at night) tells him he is sailing west, but at dawn the rising Sun tells him he's sailing east...well, that's just plain weird.

Like Navigator, that I can't explain. Like many things regarding "Lost" it remains to be seen how they will explain it, if at all.

ps: I won't even get into the possibility the islands magnetic flux density decreases proportionally to ones distance from the island, thus dynamically influencing magnetic deviation, which could conceviably result in one sailing in a circle. ;)

[Smartypants]

^ ^ Look, it's Badger! Now I really do believe a new LOST is coming up....

:D

[Navigator]

Re: To put it simply: if celestial navigation (at night) tells him he is sailing west, but at dawn the rising Sun tells him he's sailing east...well, that's just plain weird.

Its worse than that - the wind has to change with the boat's course or Desmond is going to notice that after a week or so downwind he is steadily
beating upwind for days. If the island can influence the wind, the stars and the direction of the sun we have entered the relm of magic and all bets are off. Oh, btw, apparently Desmond only got drunk when he found himself back at the island. You can't very well sail a small boat in the open ocean for two weeks while blotto.

[Warthawg1]

Let's not forget the level of official Dharma Scotch whiskey that Desmond ingested as we talk about his navigation skills, or lack thereof. lol

[mickyd]

Maybe I have my facts wrong, but I recall that there is an air search under way by people who should be well aware of the course and location of all ocean racers in this particular event and who have the wherewithal to pursue any and all leads. And, again as memory serves, it was noticed, in the course of this quest, an anomaly of electromagnetic proportions. Evidently, this was a key clue know only to the participants of this specific mission. Desmond, sea skills aside, which I would rate as more than adequate to navigate this particular race are not now the issue. The best chance for locating this stealth island is at hand. Now if this air mission fails, then I believe we are dealing within the realm of science fiction and all the boundaries imposed by it. In other words, anything goes, the sky is the limit, bring on snow globes, time travel, name your fantasy

[John]

Maybe I have my facts wrong, but I recall that there is an air search under way by people who should be well aware of the course and location of all ocean racers in this particular event and who have the wherewithal to pursue any and all leads. And, again as memory serves, it was noticed, in the course of this quest, an anomaly of electromagnetic proportions. Evidently, this was a key clue know only to the participants of this specific mission.

From where do you gather this information?

[mickyd]

I don't think I imagined it. Was there not a scene where there were these Russian or Polish guys monitoring the earth from an aircraft and when the 108 went haywire and they picked up this anomaly on their instruments? I believe this air search was being financed by the love interest of Desmond who is either a Degroot or relative of one of the sponsors of the project. Now I can be wrong as I am only monitoring this course and not taking it for credit and been in hibernation all summer. I am sure with your involvement in the series you can set me straight if I am off base.

[Kralizec]

Sorry for the OT, but are you talking about the guys monitoring the magnetic anomaly portrayed in the season finale? Cause they were not on a plane, but on an Antarctic base, and were speaking Portuguese...

[Verite Garde]

Why have we never seen the moon in any of its phases on LOST? I think its omission is significant. It's been a long summer and I'm glad to be back.

[mickyd]

Yes, your right, I am sorry I got that confused. I am assuming that they have some intel from their employer where to concentrate their search and I would further assume it is based on the reported course and last contact they had with Desmond as he traveled around the world on his sailboat. The fact that they were over the Antartic at the time may or may not be significant. I assume they were doing a large grid search covering the South Pacific

[John]

Why have we never seen the moon in any of its phases on LOST? I think its omission is significant.

The moon has been shown a few times. Once was while Mike and Sawyer were adrift on the raft wreckage.

[Noav Sigless]

I found an old post of mine about the lack of the moon in the show.

The moon isn't very friendly to filming because it moves.
Scenes may be filmed hours or days apart. If one scene has a full moon just rising over ocean and the next scene, that takes place seconds after the first, shows the full moon high in the sky, continuity is shot. The easiest solution is to never have the moon in the background.

[Verite Garde]

The moon has been shown a few times. Once was while Mike and Sawyer were adrift on the raft wreckage.

Thanks for correcting me. I didn't remember ever seeing it. That said, I wouldn't trust standard rules of navigation or anything else for that matter to have much if any impact on or near craphole island or whatever it's called.

We've seen more than once in scenes what appears to be splinters in the atmosphere and many mirror reflections so why would anyone wrack their brain trying to figure things out on LOST as if it were nonfiction?

It seems to me that Desmond figured in the last place he knew he was for sure on the globe before the storm that brought him to the island and navigated from there, but if compasses on the island are corrupt then so would his have been.

Isn't the "snow globe" description about the range of magnetic strength from the island outward and upward?

So Desmond never got out of that range and when he realized he was going in circles be began drinking, not beforehand. He didn't lose direction from drinking.

[Pylon]

I'm Ok with the idea that the funkiness of the area has messed with Des' nav systems, at least enough that he didn't reach land when he thought he should have. Maybe that's when the drinking started, he retreated to the hatch and let the waves take him where they wanted, which brought him home...

[ISLANDLEA]

hello, just a teeny reminder-- Desmond is an alcoholic Loser- with a Capital "L" , watch the series please ...lea :bump:

[marshall2u]

hello, just a teeny reminder-- Desmond is an alcoholic Loser- with a Capital "L" , watch the series please ...lea :bump:

As far as I can remember, we've only seen Dez drink twice (and the first was prior to a suicide attempt). How does that make him an alcoholic Loser wtih a capital "L"??

[ISLANDLEA]

hi, Des tried to kill our best Losties, while drunk,, lying on the floor of 'his' borrowed boat,, while it was under sail,, off-course again,, shooting holes in his boat>>>
was drunk again, it seemed to me,[or @ least hung over] when he was asked to help sail in S2 finale.
was kicked out of the Army
served jail time
left a beautiful lady behind to enter a race> who loved him> and was also RICH, I might add
got LOST during THAT race
thinks he's in a 'snowglobe'
stays down in a hole for couple years pressing #s, cuz someone tells him to>>>
jeez, if this isn't a friggin' LOSER with a Capital "L", I don't know who IS ? ...lea

:bump:

[marshall2u]

hi, Des tried to kill our best Losties, while drunk,, lying on the floor of 'his' borrowed boat,, while it was under sail,, off-course again,, shooting holes in his boat>>>
was drunk again, it seemed to me,[or @ least hung over] when he was asked to help sail in S2 finale.
was kicked out of the Army
served jail time
left a beautiful lady behind to enter a race> who loved him> and was also RICH, I might add
got LOST during THAT race
thinks he's in a 'snowglobe'
stays down in a hole for couple years pressing #s, cuz someone tells him to>>>
jeez, if this isn't a friggin' LOSER with a Capital "L", I don't know who IS ? ...lea

:bump:

Are YOU drunk?? Nothing you said here makes any sense....

[ISLANDLEA]

hi, ok, you are right, I am wrong,,,
Des is a fine figure of a man,, an outstanding seaman,, never drinks much,, an outstanding navigator,, war[army] hero !!,, always practices the utmost safety in the handling of firearms,, eager to help people, and not run out on them, and winner of the World Sailing Cup !!!!!! :nanabobo:

edit- I think you need to realize that with our Losties, we are dealing with a bunch of losers, all of them,, all except Hurley

[Pylon]

I think, given what the guy was going through, the amount of drinking he was doing seemed like pretty effective self medication. I'm not sure that he would be considered "alcoholic" just from that without a full profile of his life. Prior to crashing on the island, there wasn't much that indicated he was a heavy drinker. But 3 years in the hatch will do strange things to anyone, I suspect...

[Smartypants]

Isn't the fact that we watch the show and all see/get/understand different things about the characters and the plot part of the reason that we come to this message board to talk about it?

[Verite Garde]

hello, just a teeny reminder-- Desmond is an alcoholic Loser- with a Capital "L" , watch the series please ...lea :bump:


I haven't missed an episode and there is nothing whatsoever that has happened on LOST to indicate that Desmond is an alcoholic. Are you thinking of some other character or perhaps even TV show?

.................................................. .................................................. ...................
Also I see in your other posts here that you're driving home that you think he is a loser which is fine. That's your opinion, but being a loser doesn't mean he is a drunk and vice versa.

a. Wasn't it inferred last season that Dez was discharged from the military because of his defiance? Not from alcohol?

b. Dez's running off to win the race around the world was not due to drinking or being a loser. His goal was to earn back some dignity and clear his name for Penny, not to dump her.

c. Also a guy marrying a rich woman who's father hates him with the heat of a thousand suns doesn't make him a winner, trying to regain both their respect is far more admirable.

d. He drank after he realized there was no escape from craphole island. His shooting bullets at the bulkhead in the boat was because he had lost his mind a little. Not cool but highly understandable

e. He was still drinking from the same bottle when Locke took him to the other hatch.

When else was he ever drinking? I see this as one single instance.

[Vendicare]

I think there are several "clues" that argue against Desmond being an alcoholic. First, he was in training for a large athletic feat. He wouldn't be able to drink constantly while in such heavy training.

He couldn't have been a heavy drinker while in the hatch. He had a large collection of bottle with him when he returned, so I would assume that was several "drops" worth of drink from DHARMA. I doubt they would leave enough liquor for their people to pass out and forget to press the button.

Finally, Desmond had been in prison for quite a while. He wouldn't have been drinking there unless it was Pruno.

My personal theory about everyone on the island is that they were relying on something other than faith. For some it was drugs, others had food or work, and the list goes on.

I can't wait for Season 3!

[Verite Garde]

I think there are several "clues" that argue against Desmond being an alcoholic. First, he was in training for a large athletic feat. He wouldn't be able to drink constantly while in such heavy training.

Agreed. I meant myself to bring this up. Even when the Losties blew open the hatch Desmond was still working out and drinking health shakes.

He couldn't have been a heavy drinker while in the hatch. He had a large collection of bottle with him when he returned, so I would assume that was several "drops" worth of drink from DHARMA. I doubt they would leave enough liquor for their people to pass out and forget to press the button.

I'm pretty sure booze was included in every food drop. I'm also assuming Kelvin stashed a few bottles on Desmond's boat while preparing his get-away and there was plenty enough around for Kelvin to get tanked that time he wanted to turn the key.

My personal theory about everyone on the island is that they were relying on something other than faith. For some it was drugs, others had food or work, and the list goes on.

I think your theory is one of several theories that together might explain LOST, but there is not just one theory, IMO and also a fact told by hte writers. There are many mysterious aspects of LOST.

I can't wait for Season 3!

Me either!

[sawyerhasbestlines]

Navigator,

Nice Post. I hope you stick around for season 3. You sound like you know what you are talking about regarding sailing. I look forward to reading your observations on the subject as the show goes on.

SHBL

P.S. Have you read this book? http://www.amazon.com/Island-Day-Before-Umberto-Eco/dp/0140259198

[LostInWilderness]

I hope Navigator sticks around too. I haven't had a new idea worth shooting down in a long time. ;) Nice to have new ideas to consider.

[ISLANDLEA]

hi, if you look up "loser" in the dictionary you should find a picture of Desmond ! ...lea

[marshall2u]

Why do you hate the guy so much??

He's not my favorite, but he's also not at the bottom of the ladder. I'm just curious.

[Murky Majare]

Using the theories of strong gravitational fields creating "bubbles" and bends in space and that strong magnetism to create such gravitational forces.

It might be that in a way, Desmond is traveling on the outside of such a bubble, in which the island is located.
Relative to himself, he keeps going forward for two weeks, but relative to the bubble goes around it and ends up back on the island.

Remember he left from the opposite part of the island to where he came back (assuming it was still in the same location Kevin left it).

So relative to Desmond's point of view he kept going in one direction, the sun and moon kept on moving correctly, but he still came "back".

Based on waaaay theoretical science of course, and probably over many peoples heads if they try to explain it in detail (even S. Hawkins struggles with this field, and he's the leading man and all), but at least it fits with their "everything has a scientific explaination (sorta)" line.

[ISLANDLEA]

Why do you hate the guy so much??

He's not my favorite, but he's also not at the bottom of the ladder. I'm just curious.

hi, I don't 'hate' Des. I'm just pointing out the fact that he's a loser, as are most there. Des, being near the bottom , I would say. > reasons already given. ...lea

edit- it's sort of like I want to say to him 'Des, let me see that book of yours' then take it and throw it overboard,, and say 'now Des, get a life, ok ?'

[DreaminLost]

Lol, you are entitled to your opinion, ISLANDLEA.

I find it humorous that you seem to relish your dislike of Desmond so much.

[leenzii]

yeah, what DreaminLost said

[ISLANDLEA]

hi, I'm a people person, OK ? I talk to people, and when I do, I tell it like it is> startling, isn't it ?
Our Losties ended up on Craphole Island, how ? - we're not really sure,, but Des , he ended up there twice- all on his own- it's the correct place for the dude- cuz his self-centered persona gives him a one-way ticket to loserville. ...lea

[leenzii]

*bart impression*

don't have a cow, man

[ISLANDLEA]

:Cheers:

the one un-selfish thing Des did, was to turn that key- so, I give him credit for that. However, it was the wrong thing to do[Des, loser that he is, will always do the incorrect thing],, the correct thing was to let the system fail ...lea

[Chinamom]

Re: the snowglobe

I immediately thought of the final scene of the final episode of the '80s hospital drama "St. Elsewhere." Two of the doctors are sitting in a small room dressed kind of shabbily, and one doctor's autistic son is sitting on the floor playing with a snowglobe. The doctors are chit-chatting and the son keeps shaking the globe. Finally the camera closes in on the snowglobe, and what's inside is a teeny-tiny building with the name "St. Elsewhere" on it--meaning that everything that happened in the series was imagined by this autistic boy (i.e., that he imagined his dad and his dad's friend to be doctors).

So wouldn't it be a hoot if everything that has happened on the island really happened in someone's imagination instead? I'm sure that has already been covered in T & S!

[Without Dane]

lol, Desmond isn't a loser.

[DreaminLost]

You're right, he's not.

Dane, I really like the little video clip in your siggy. I assume that's you. It's very funny.

[LostPigeon]

I realy like him and He was realy good in 24 where he had a London accent.

[ISLANDLEA]

I realy like him and He was realy good in 24 where he had a London accent.

hi, we are posting about the character 'Desmond' as portrayed in LOST series... no ? ...lea

from spooky's transcripts, except where noted:


DESMOND: And what makes you think I would just run away?
WIDMORE: Because you're a coward.

[Jack, Sayid and Sawyer reach the boat and climb aboard. They hear music coming from below deck.]
SAWYER: You hear that? [Jack nods]
[Suddenly shots are fired from below. Then we can hear the trigger being pulled, but no shots being fired.]
VOICE [from below]: Damn it.
[Jack, Sayid and Sawyer kick in the door that leads below with their guns drawn. We see Desmond drunk and disheveled sitting on the floor.] [floor's a good place for this dude...lea]
DESMOND: You. [He laughs]

JACK: Just tell them Desmond's back until I find out the rest, okay.
[Jack exits and approaches Desmond who's sitting near a fire, drinking.]
JACK: So, before you ran off, I guess you just forgot to mention that you still have a sailboat. Why'd you come back?
DESMOND [laughing]: Do you think I did it on purpose? I was sailing for two and half weeks, bearing due West and making 9 knots. I should have been in Fiji in less than a week. But the first piece of land I saw wasn't Fiji, was it? No. No, it was here -- this, this island. And you know why? Because this is it. This is all there is left. This ocean and this place here. We are stuck in a bloody snow globe. There's no outside world. There's no escape. So, just go away, huh. Let me drink. [hiccup...lea]

MASTER SERGEANT: Nice idea, as long as you know when you're going to die. [He stamps "discharged" on some papers] Lance Corporal Desmond David Hume your sentence is hereby complete and you are now and forever dishonorably discharged from the Royal Scotts Regiment of Her Majesty's Armed Forces. Long live the queen. Enjoy your sodding book. [ throw the book away, and get a life Des...lea]


SAYID: I don't know how to sail.
DESMOND: Then I suggest you find someone who does. [eager to help people...lea]

DESMOND: Please, Kelvin. Let me go out, huh? Just once. - [what a man ! ..lea]
INMAN: Sorry, Des. You stay here. You push the button. That's an order.


DESMOND: And what makes you think I would just run away?
WIDMORE: Because you're a coward. [and that's just exactly what he did- he ran/sailed away ..lea]

[John]

Moving to Character and Character Discussion. Please continue there. Thanks.

[RememberMe]

Well, this was a good discussion about the magnetic properties/location of the island worthy of GD until Lea started trolling...

[merry slug]

I'm a people person, OK ? I talk to people, and when I do, I tell it like it is>
[COLOR=#8b0000]

* brain asplodes from trying to reconcile the ideas of telling people exactly "like it is" and being a "people person" *

[The Pupil]

:Cheers:

the one un-selfish thing Des did, was to turn that key- so, I give him credit for that. However, it was the wrong thing to do[Des, loser that he is, will always do the incorrect thing],, the correct thing was to let the system fail ...lea

Hi LEA - first time poster - long time reader.

What can I say - you inspired me to get on here. I feel that I have to defend Des.

Your opinion is certainly yours. However, where you see loser, I see an idealist (which often times can be one and the same).

I have to admit that I really like the thread about Social Contracts and buy into it as a theme. That said, there must be an idealist in all of this - and that's what Des is. One of the problems with Social Contract theories is that if the return or benefit that society gives does not outweigh the efforts given by the individual, the idea of Social Contracts fall apart - unless there are idealists. Idealists will spend more energy for less payoff time and time again - for the chance at what ever it is that means the most for them - often concepts that are abstract - such as love or utopia (as opposed to things like food or wealth. Enter Desmond. Desmond has done everything that we've seen him do for love. He's an idealist that has twice had his convictions challenged so significantly - that he nearly commited suicide. That said, those are traits of the idealist.

Perhaps Lost is an allegory of Locke and LeviEthan philosophy. Perhaps we're being shown the outcome of certain personality types introduced to society - that itself is allegorical and one theme that the writers are playing with, and I think it's safe to say that multiple themes are being used in this show.

Anyway, I really like Des, because I believe him to believe in things that are perfect - and longshots (believing the surgery that Jack needed to complete would be successful). It's important to remember that if this show is using allegorical themes that caricatures are being drawn for us - the viewers - so that we may see those characters represent concepts. Idealists often times are associated with losers because the believe in the long shot and always root for the underdog - because they are the underdog.

That said - look for Des to have or do something that is a catalyst to something that is exceptionally successful - as to fit in with his caricature in an allegory - the idealist will every now and again believe in something or do something that pays off in a big way. Perhaps that thing was turning the key. Perhaps it's something yet to come.

Anyway, first time poster here - and it's been great reading all your ideas about the show.

[ISLANDLEA]

Well, this was a good discussion about the magnetic properties/location of the island worthy of GD until Lea started trolling...

hi, the title of the thread is ' Desmond the Sailor Man ' ...lea
oh, and please feel free to continue the intelligent, more meaningful discussion you were having



Hi LEA - first time poster - long time reader.

What can I say - you inspired me to get on here. I feel that I have to defend Des. [The Pupil]

hi, Pupil, and yes, I really do enjoy inspired members,, otherwise this all gets really boring..:Cheers: ..lea

btw. I didn't write the loser part for Des, don't blame Lea for that

edit-that is not to suggest that Des cannot redeem himself some time in the future,, people can change,, I hope he does

[merry slug ]* brain asplodes from trying to reconcile the ideas of telling people exactly "like it is" and being a "people person" *

hi, careful > don't let your brain 'asplode ' - altho it may be too late ..lea

[The Pupil]

hi, the title of the thread is ' Desmond the Sailor Man ' ...lea



Hi LEA - first time poster - long time reader.

What can I say - you inspired me to get on here. I feel that I have to defend Des. [The Pupil]

hi, Pupil, and yes, I really do enjoy inspired members,, otherwise this all gets really boring..:Cheers: ..lea

btw. I didn't write the loser part for Des, don't blame Lea for that

edit-that is not to suggest that Des cannot redeem himself some time in the future,, people can change,, I hope he does

Hey Lea - how do you mean you didn't write the loser part for Des - do you mean the show introduced him with the purpose of him being a loser?

Do you believe that perhaps they wrote his part with the intent of making him an idealist whose long shot finally comes in - instead?

And I must admit - that inspiration was somewhat - to defend Des. I'd like to think of myself a little bit like Des - idealist, romantic and convicted to tasks that could get me closer to my ideal goals.

Anyway, I look forward to our future discussions - I have a feeling we'll be making some arguments and counterpoints to one another.

[ISLANDLEA]

hi, well Pupil, can u tell me what Desmond's 'ideal' is ? or anything this dude has accomplished ? >>>>
Jack, for instance, we make fun of him often, but he IS a doctor-- accomplishment.
Charlie- same thing- but he IS a Rock Star.
Desmond ??????? __________________. ...lea

[The Pupil]

Desmond's ideal that he seeks in the series is the love of a woman - a specific woman, and regardless of her father's interference, he's won her heart - enough to keep looking for him for years - enough to write him his letter hidden in his book...

[ISLANDLEA]

hi, ^^^ when you love someone,, pure romantic love- all you want to do is BE WITH THAT PERSON- nothing else matters- that is where Desmonds mind is screwed,, he's an adult male,, not a baby,, he should have stayed with HER,, Pen's father should have nothing to do with that love,, it's Desmond's immaturity that allows her father to interfere--nothing else...lea

[Selestina118]

Charles was able to interfere with Desmond and Penny's lives because Desmond was in jail. There was nothing that he could do to contact Penny except for sending letters, and Charles intercepted them. Charles forced Penny to forget all about her realtionship with Desmond, but as you could see, she kept trying to find him even after Desmond got out of jail. That was even regardless that she was to be wed to another man. Des kept away from Penny so that he could find a way to prove himself worthy of Penny's love in the eyes of her father. Charles is a very influential and wealthy man and he could've had Des killed without a trace if he really wanted to. Charles had no use for Desmond - he hought that he was a coward and of low class - and that's why he felt that he was unfit of his daughter's hand. Charles wanted Penny to marry someone of her status and class.

Desmond is very strong in that he didn't succumb to blindly trying to be with Penny. If he did that he could have made his situation worse and he could have made a fool of himself in front of Charles and Penny.

Desmond also never forgot about Penny while he was in the hatch. Kelvin said "Why don't you just give up and live a little" and Des' reply was "I'm never giving up." Kelvin led him to believe that the outside world was toxic and that there was no way to get back to civilization on main land. Penny's letter even kept Desmond from killing himself for a second. He thought that everything was gone and that he had no way of getting back to Penny. Then Locke showed up and the first thing Desmond did was run to get to his boat so he could leave the island and get back to Penny.

In the last moments of the Season 2 Finale, Desmond showed his character in that he faced the hatch without knowing what would happen to him. He knew that he might possibly die from the failsafe. The worlds that he thought was his last were "I love ya, Penny." I mean, how more amazing can that get? I believe that he knew somehow that by turning the failsafe, that he was saving the world from being disrupted by the electromagnetism. That makes Des a hero in my book. He blindly went into everything to save others and he loved Pen and wanted to get back to her like there was no tomorrow.

:Cheers:

[ISLANDLEA]

hi, Desmond is a grown man, or at least he is supposed to be. He is what maybe in his 30's. A real MAN wants to be with Pen, he does just that. Pen's father has nothing to do with it at all. I did not see any way her Dad could have prevented that,, and her father DID NOT have Des killed, as you made reference to. Instead Des just left,, like a little boy, instead of staying and taking the woman he loved. ...lea

edit- I gave Des credit for turning the key>read my posts above. But I don't think he 'saved the world' from anything. He did the key thing in an act of desperation. Everything else Des did on this Island were the acts of a coward- Pen's father described him correctly.

Then Locke showed up and the first thing Desmond did was run to get to his boat so he could leave the island and get back to Penny.[Sel_____] yes, he didn't give a <snip> about our Losties being stranded there,, all he cared about was himself

[Selestina118]

hi, Desmond is a grown man, or at least he is supposed to be. He is what maybe in his 30's. A real MAN wants to be with Pen, he does just that. Pen's father has nothing to do with it at all. I did not see any way her Dad could have prevented that,, and her father DID NOT have Des killed, as you made reference to.
Okay, I was just trying to make a point here. I did that because Charles Widmore has A LOT of power in society. He is in league with Mr. Paik and Alvar Hanso. Paik sends "messages" to those who he doesn't like or feels like they have wronged him through Jin.

Instead Des just left,, like a little boy, instead of staying and taking the woman he loved. ...lea

edit- I gave Des credit for turning the key>read my posts above. But I don't think he 'saved the world' from anything. He did the key thing in an act of desperation. Everything else Des did on this Island were the acts of a coward- Pen's father described him correctly.

Then Locke showed up and the first thing Desmond did was run to get to his boat so he could leave the island and get back to Penny.[Sel_____] yes, he didn't give a <snip> about our Losties being stranded there,, all he cared about was himself Did you miss this portion of the show:

[FLASHBACK]

[We see Desmond at the stadium getting ready to run. A car pulls up and Jack gets out and heads to the steps. Another car pulls up and a woman gets out.]
DESMOND: How did you find me?
PENELOPE: The landlord at your flat told me you ran here everyday.
DESMOND: How did you find me?
PENELOPE: I have a lot of money, Desmond. With enough money and determination you can find anyone. Did you read your beloved book -- the one you were saving?
DESMOND: Not yet.
PENELOPE: I thought you might have read it while you were away.
DESMOND: I was in prison, not away.
PENELOPE: Why didn't you write to me?
DESMOND: When are you getting married, Pen?
PENELOPE: We haven't set a date yet.
DESMOND: I'll be back in a year.
PENELOPE: What if you were back, right now?
DESMOND: I'm going to win this race, Pen -- his race. And in a year, I'll be back.
PENELOPE: Desmond, what are you running from?
DESMOND: I have to get my honor back, and that's what I'm running to. Also:

PENELOPE: Dearest Des, I am writing this letter to you as you leave for prison. And I've hidden in the one place you would turn to in a moment of great desperation. I know you go away with the weight of what happened on your shoulders. And I know the only person who can ever take it off is you. Please don't give up, Des. Because all we really need to survive is one person who truly loves us. And you have her. I will wait for you. Always. I love you, Pen.

The great desperation line is a cool look back to this flashback because that was where Des hid the hatch key. Penny knew that whatever Des did in the army laid a very heavy burned on him. She knew that Des valued his honor and that is why he left her for what was supposed to be only a year. It couldn't be helped that he crashed on an island. It was stormy and Kelvin dragged him somewhere where he could not have ANY contact to the outside world. Obviously Penny still believes in Des to keep looking for him.

BTW, are there any characters that you even remotely like on the show, Lea?

:Cheers:

[ISLANDLEA]

Okay, I was just trying to make a point here. I did that because Charles Widmore has A LOT of power in society. He is in league with Mr. Paik and Alvar Hanso. Paik sends "messages" to those who he doesn't like or feels like they have wronged him through Jin.

Did you miss this portion of the show:

Also:



The great desperation line is a cool look back to this flashback because that was where Des hid the hatch key. Penny knew that whatever Des did in the army laid a very heavy burned on him. She knew that Des valued his honor and that is why he left her for what was supposed to be only a year. It couldn't be helped that he crashed on an island. It was stormy and Kelvin dragged him somewhere where he could not have ANY contact to the outside world. Obviously Penny still believes in Des to keep looking for him.

BTW, are there any characters that you even remotely like on the show, Lea?

:Cheers:


hi, I'm sorry I really don't understand any meaning in your defense of Desmond, using the quoted dialog that you did:
DESMOND: I'm going to win this race, Pen -- his race. And in a year, I'll be back.
PENELOPE: Desmond, what are you running from? --so apparently even Pen doesn't understand why he choses to run away
DESMOND: I have to get my honor back, and that's what I'm running to. so, getting his 'honor back' means that he even admits he has NO honor- he's admitting that himself- those are not MY words Sel, those are his own words !!!

If a man is NOT a coward, he doesn't have to prove that he's not to anyone. It is only the TRUTH that hurts.

btw Sel, have you ever met a man that was not a wimp ?

edit- I happen to like most of our Losties, even tho I poke fun at them often. But, you should see from watching the series that these characters are mostly a bunch of losers. Desmond being near the bottom- no job, no money, dishonerable discharge, prison, leaves this wonderful lady and takes off, apparently cannot sail a boat, did not win this race he was BSing about, did not even finish the race. Takes off again in his sailboat- get's LOST again.
Hey, I've got an idea Desmond-- why don't you GET A JOB ? LOSER ...LEA

[merry slug]

I see two options at this point. Etiher A) ISLANDLEA is baiting Desmond's fans and enjoying the responses, or B) she is intent on believing what she believes and isn't likely to change her mind.

Either way, this arguement is moot.

[ISLANDLEA]

hi, I do enjoy the responses, but they are so out of context with the facts presented in LOST series. Desmond's character has been clearly defined in both dialog and storyline-- that of a loser. I would like to see him improve,, just as I would for our Losties.
I think I'm often misinterpreted as not liking the Des portrayal,, I like it, it's very interesting,, the acting is good- he's playing the 'loser' part very well.
I'm perhaps not as 'moonstruck' by cutsie actors as some members seem to be,, I therefore take a more realistic view of their personalities and foibles. sincerely... lea

los‧er  /ˈluzər/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[loo-zer]
Informal. a. a person who has been convicted of a misdemeanor or, esp., a felony
b. a person who has failed at a particular activity
c. someone or something that is marked by consistently or thoroughly bad quality, performance
3. Slang. a misfit, esp. someone who has never or seldom been successful at a job, personal relationship, etc.


edit- merry slug- u r correct of course, I am baiting>> I hope u dudes come up with some better Des defenses, than u have been. Well perhaps in the future the Des will improve, and then u will be able to show how wrong I have been>> do u think that will make me feel bad ? ..sorry, unlike Des, lea's a bit stronger than that !!!