Is Benry the name Jack wants from Sara?

[sawyerhasbestlines]

Are Benry and Juliet a couple on the rocks?

Did Benry dump Juliet for Sara?

Sara won't tell Jack "his name."

Last season, there was an endless reference to "him."

Yes, Jack is a nutjob. But I don't think we should underestimate his obsession. Sara looks like she wants to tell Jack, because it's driving him nuts, and there's a part of her that still cares for him. Jack needs the name for closure.

But if you rewatch the lawyer scene, it seems like Sara has been instructed to not give away "his" name. Sara was seen with two different men in the park, and picking her up at the lawyer's office. I think those her friends and not her dude. I think Benry is who got Sara to dump Jack. And that is how they know so much about Jack.

We are getting a setup for a Juliet - Jack hook-up. I think she'll feel sympathetic for Jack and identify with his loss. And Juliet looks like Sara a bit.

I just re-watched the episode, and the editing infers Benry is Jack's "him."

[IMLOSTRU?]

Umm...cool idea, but we saw a the guy in the show that Sarah was leaving Jack for and it was not Benry.

[Warthawg1]

More importantly.. Julliet referred to the guy at the beginning of the show by the name Ben (So sorry for picking a book that Ben doesn't like) and then she at the end of the eppy she also calls Fenry by the name of Ben.

There is def something up wid dat.

[sawyerhasbestlines]

Umm...cool idea, but we saw a the guy in the show that Sarah was leaving Jack for and it was not Benry.

That man could just be a friend.

Sara was seen with 2 men: a dark curly haired guy in the park when Jack was being a stalker - and with the guy at the lawyer's office. My bet is neither of them is her man. She's been indoctrinated into the Benry cult. Benry's second wife?

If she wasn't going to give out the name to Jack, why would she be dumb enough to have him park outside in the open where Jack would see him.

Benry is "him."

I think the reason Juliet picked the Steven King book, was 1. Benry doesn't think Steven King is literature, so she purposely picked the book as an act of defiance against Benry. She must be very angry at him.

(Another note): Steven King watches the show and gave some critism about Lost. I think it was the writers way of responding to Steven King's book.

Anyone see what book title it was?

[Suil Liath]

The thought that Sarah was with Ben is just appalling. He's not the tinest bit attractive.

Beware red herrings. Could be a cigar is just a cigar.

[SpacedinLost]

Nah... I think the whole Jack-thinking-it-was-his-Dad thing was to set up the fact that Jack's obsession and untrue assumptions "drove" his father to drink again, which eventually led to his demise (or 'alleged" death).

I thought the wife's other man was another teacher at school or something. But someone said he was a different guy than who picked her up at the police station. I couldn't see him that clearly to see a difference.

[sawyerhasbestlines]

The thought that Sarah was with Ben is just appalling. He's not the tinest bit attractive.


Shhhh.... don't tell Vonn.

----

If Benry got Sara to dump Jack, my guess is it's because Jack is the object of who Benry is after... and Sara just got used.

[Warthawg1]

So no one has any thoughts about her using the name Ben to refer to the guy in the book club, and then later using the same name to refer to Fenry?

[MonsterEatsPilot]

I simply took it as Benry is their leader and controls every aspect of their society -- including what they read -- and Juliet picked the book out of protest.

MEP/Purrkins

[sawyerhasbestlines]

So no one has any thoughts about her using the name Ben to refer to the guy in the book club, and then later using the same name to refer to Fenry?

Well, that's what I based my speculation on.

Also, Benry tells Juliet (as the plane is crashing) he looks to the book in her hand and says: "I guess I'm out of the club."

Benry and Juliet are a couple. It's demonstrated in the squabble. The guy with the glasses says "the host would not pick that book" (i.e. Benry). Juliet responds with "I'm the host." (meaning default host because Benry didn't show up to his own bookclub hosting meeting.)

So, since she says "she's the host" then it's because she and Benry live together in that house. I guess they could be siblings. But my initial take is they are a couple. She picks the book on purpose to piss him off. Defiant act.

When Benry says he's out of the bookclub, it's more like he's saying "we are broken up."

Soooo...... Benry is Sara's him. Juliet is sympathetic to Jack because her partner Benry replaced her with Sara. In otherwords, she and Jack are in the same situation.

[Warthawg1]

Ah well that's what I was looking for... I had sort of forgot that the guy at the beginning made the comment that the "host" wouldn't have picked it.. meaning/implying that the former host was Benry. The Juliets comment was not calling him Ben per se', but referring also to the former host. Now that I've been reminded of the actual dialogue, I suppose what I noticed means nothing more than the implication that Benry and Juliet were once a couple or something other than my initial fuzzy thought I had when I woke up this morning, lol

Thanks!

[MonsterEatsPilot]

SHBL,

Are we sure there is even a "him"?

We see Sarah with 2 different guys. Who is to say she is not dating both?

Remember she said something to the effect that it doesn't matter who he is, just who he is not...

I'm inclined to believe there is no-one of importance that Sarah was dating, and perhaps she was dating a few different men.

The important part of this is that none of them were Jack...

MEP/Purrkins

[aRooZa]

So no one has any thoughts about her using the name Ben to refer to the guy in the book club, and then later using the same name to refer to Fenry?

Ben = Benry = In the book club. He says it himself to Juliet (when he sees the book in her hand) just after they see the plane crash: "So I guess I'm out of the book club."

[sawyerhasbestlines]

To follow up on why Benry is "him."

Think of the scene where Jack holds Juliet hostage, and Jack tells Benry that he'll "kill Juliet". The most interesting thing is Benry didn't make the choice which saves Juliet. It's a chess move, in response to her book choice.

Benry ups the ultimate anty on Juliet's "book choice" power play.

What we are witnessing is the unfolding of Juliet's and Benry's split-up.

The reason she is named Juliet obviously is "Romeo and Juliet" two lovers from opposing sides. Benry made it easy for the two of them to hook-up. Because Benry betrayed Juliet - by taking Sara.

[sawyerhasbestlines]

SHBL,

Are we sure there is even a "him"?

We see Sarah with 2 different guys. Who is to say she is not dating both?

Remember she said something to the effect that it doesn't matter who he is, just who he is not...



MEP/Purrkins

Hi Purrkins. That's what I initially thought too. Then I rewatched it. It's the editing - with the word "him." Going from the Kate scene to the Jack scene. If you rewatch it, and follow the editing and the word "him" all roads lead to Benry.

And the lawyer's office scene. It's subtle. Sara is being coached. What to say, what not to say. It gets to hard for her to handle the situation alone. So she leaves.

The guy in the car reminds me of Ethan and Goodwin in the beginning. A soldier with a task. "Take Sara to the meeting." I bet it was Benry on the phone from another location, coaching her.

My hunch could totally be wrong. But it's interesting that Sara and Juliet are similar looking in type. Maybe Benry and Jack share the same type. And Juliet's choice of picking a book that Benry would have no tolerance for, was on purpose, a small attack at Benry.

I think if Juliet and Jack end up a couple, it will be based on a foundation that those two share a common denominator: Benry's influence on Sara dumping Jack. Wife swap.

[Smartypants]

Can someone sketch out for me the timeframe where Benry is not on the island at the same time that Jack and Sarah break up (how long ago was that), so that he can have a thing with Sarah? But then by the time of the plane crash, he is there and in charge, and apparently ending a relationship with Juliet? After Jack's dad dies after Jack makes him lose his license to practice, etc. etc. What is timeline?

I just don't see how it all makes sense timewise for Ben and Sarah to have been together. But maybe I haven't had enough coffee.

[MonsterEatsPilot]

SHBL,

I have no basis for this fact, and call it my gut instinct, but I assumed Juliet and Ethan were the couple based on the opening scene...

And Juliet's "sadness" and rebellion towards Benry was the fact that Benry sent Ethan off to be killed...

Again, I have no proof of this just a feeling...

MEP/Purrkins

[IMLOSTRU?]

That man could just be a friend.

Sara was seen with 2 men: a dark curly haired guy in the park when Jack was being a stalker - and with the guy at the lawyer's office. My bet is neither of them is her man. She's been indoctrinated into the Benry cult. Benry's second wife?


The man was repeated when she was at the school.

[lostchild]

Benry might have some kind of relationship history with Juliet but I see nothing more then a stretch of a guess that Benry is Sarahs guy too.

[Z054J]

So...

After the big breakup between Ben and Sara, in which it was revealed that Sara was becoming a lesbian, for since Jack all men were worthless in the sack in comparison, Ben goes insane - even more insane than Jack - such is the power of Sara's magic vagina.

HE WILL PAY, BY GAWD! Says Ben.

First, I will go back in time and purchase a mystery island in the middle of nowhere, and build on it a vast facility.

Then, I will hire a bunch of other people who also think that Jack should pay.

Then, I will create a gigantic electromagnet on my mystery island. Then, I will install an unnecessarily elaborate system to contain the magnetic forces (rather than a simple 'off' switch) that requires a code to be entered every 108 minutes.

Then, I will convince Widemore that Desmond is no good for Penelope.

Then, I will get Desmond released from his Scottish prison.

Then, I will convince Desmond that winning a race will have some sort of effect on his life, and I will convince Libby to give Desmond a boat with which to enter the race.

Then, I will divert Desmond to my mystery island, and force him to push the button.

I will cause his Jack's father to go to Sydney and drink himself to death.

Then, when Jack is flying back from Sydney, I will cause Desmond to become suspicious of the CIA guy and leave his button-pushing post at the exact time Jack's plane is within the radius of magnetism produced by my electromagnet.

Then, when Jack's plane crashes, I will wait around a while, and then get myself caught in order to get my ass kicked by Sayid... and... then, like... escape later on.

Then, I will make some guy from the crash bring Jack to... er... then I will capture Jack and make him... Eat a grilled cheese sandwich.

HAHA! Revenge!

[Smartypants]

Thank god. A reasonable timeline!

[sawyerhasbestlines]

The man was repeated when she was at the school.

Two different men.

_____

Purrkins, my friend,

I like your idea about Ethan with Juliet. The only part where that doesn't make sense is: both Juliet and Benry are the hosts of the book club.

Benry is supposed to be the host. But he is not there. In his absense, Juliet becomes the default host. And purposely picks a book Benry hates. Why would she do this? This pisses off the bald guy with glasses. He stands up for Benry in his absense showing his loyalty toward "Ben." He says "Ben would not have picked that book." Now, the only reason I put Juliet and Benry as a couple, is that in Ben's absence it's OK for her to be the host.... because she lives in that house with Ben too.

----------------------

Smartypants
I have somewhat of an answer to your very good timeline question. Firstly, I do think some people have the capacity to leave the island, even though we the viewers think the rules are that nobody leaves it. A long time ago, it was posited for example, that Cooper has come and gone to the island. See triangle theories.

Secondly, Moonlight Serenade was a featured song and clue last night. Another allusion to a twilight zone episode where time gets screwed up.

[MonsterEatsPilot]

Hi Purrkins. That's what I initially thought too. Then I rewatched it. It's the editing - with the word "him." Going from the Kate scene to the Jack scene. If you rewatch it, and follow the editing and the word "him" all roads lead to Benry.

And the lawyer's office scene. It's subtle. Sara is being coached. What to say, what not to say. It gets to hard for her to handle the situation alone. So she leaves.

The guy in the car reminds me of Ethan and Goodwin in the beginning. A soldier with a task. "Take Sara to the meeting." I bet it was Benry on the phone from another location, coaching her.

My hunch could totally be wrong. But it's interesting that Sara and Juliet are similar looking in type. Maybe Benry and Jack share the same type. And Juliet's choice of picking a book that Benry would have no tolerance for, was on purpose, a small attack at Benry.

I think if Juliet and Jack end up a couple, it will be based on a foundation that those two share a common denominator: Benry's influence on Sara dumping Jack. Wife swap.

Hmmm.... I'll need to give it a rewatch tonight.

I interpreted this differently however...

At the lawyers office, when she got the phone call, it was clear to me that she was speaking to a friend, someone close -- she laughed -- and this hurt Jack because it was obvious that Jack had not heard her laugh for a long long time. It signified the "emotional affair" she was having, the distance that had grown between them.

When Jack wanted to know who "he" was she left. Not because she was told not to tell Jack. Simply because there was no "him." Sure, there might have been guys she was seeing but no specific person...

By not telling Jack a name, any name, she got power. And to me it looked like she was about to say a name, but realized she needed this power.

I agree the book was an attack at Benry but I'm still inclined to believe she was passively attacking him because he was the one that sent Ethan off to be killed and I'm still under the (unfounded) impression Ethan and Juliet were a couple...

I HAVE noticed that the girls DO look alike and it is something my co-workers discussed this morning...

But perhaps this is just an example of cross-promotion and a veiled ad for ABC's Wife Swap ;-)

I'll watch this again tonight.

Best,


MEP/Purrkins

[lostchild]

Two different men.

_____

Purrkins, my friend,

I like your idea about Ethan with Juliet. The only part where that doesn't make sense is: both Juliet and Benry are the hosts of the book club.

Benry is supposed to be the host. But he is not there. In his absense, Juliet becomes the default host. And purposely picks a book Benry hates. Why would she do this? This pisses off the bald guy with glasses. He stands up for Benry in his absense showing his loyalty toward "Ben." He says "Ben would not have picked that book." Now, the only reason I put Juliet and Benry as a couple, is that in Ben's absence it's OK for her to be the host.... because she lives in that house with Ben too.

----------------------

Smartypants
I have somewhat of an answer to your very good timeline question. Firstly, I do think some people have the capacity to leave the island, even though we the viewers think the rules are that nobody leaves it. A long time ago, it was posited for example, that Cooper has come and gone to the island. See triangle theories.

Secondly, Moonlight Serenade was a featured song and clue last night. Another allusion to a twilight zone episode where time gets screwed up.

Either that or Henry is not the soul controller of the group, perhaps she also has a say in things and is actually just planting her foot to the group showing she has power to make decisions also.

[MonsterEatsPilot]

.

_____

Purrkins, my friend,

I like your idea about Ethan with Juliet. The only part where that doesn't make sense is: both Juliet and Benry are the hosts of the book club.

Benry is supposed to be the host. But he is not there. In his absense, Juliet becomes the default host. And purposely picks a book Benry hates. Why would she do this? This pisses off the bald guy with glasses. He stands up for Benry in his absense showing his loyalty toward "Ben." He says "Ben would not have picked that book." Now, the only reason I put Juliet and Benry as a couple, is that in Ben's absence it's OK for her to be the host.... because she lives in that house with Ben too.

----------------------


I'll watch this scene again.

But in my bookclub we rotate houses from month to month. The host that month gets to pick the next book.

So I simply saw it as, this month (or week or whatever) Juliet hosted the book club and she picked the book.

I think Benry's role is MUCH larger than just being a host to a bookclub. I think Benry is the "overseer" (for lack of a better word) and controls EVERYTHING that goes on in the community. And according to him utopian society is going to read Steven King -- they're going to read literature, philosophy, the great works like The Brothers Karamazov, etc...

And didn't we see Benry walk out of another house when they all met outside when the plane crashed?

I'll need to rewatch it. This is intriguing.

Best,

MEP/Purrkins

[sawyerhasbestlines]

Purrkins,

I really like your observations and point of view.

If I wasn't as stubborn as Jack I could possibly be persuaded.

Maybe we are both right. Maybe it's not so simplistic as a love triangle. And I hope this is true, because I can't stand soap operas and I don't read romance books.

It's possible Sara didn't leave Jack for a man, but for an ideology. Benry's dharma cult.

But I still think Benry is "him".

Another angle is that: Benry and Juliet are both leaders who live together and are having a disagreement. Their "split-up" might not be romantic, but a differing of opinion on leadership direction. A power play.

[Z054J]

Re Bookclub:

"The host picks the book" is their rule. This implies that it's a bookclub like many: The hosting duty rotates from book to book. Once a book is finished, the next person hosts the next meeting and that person chooses the book.

So, it was her turn to pick the book - and the bald guy complains about the literary caliber of the book, remarking that Ben would hate it, indicating that the club is Ben's, not Juliet's. She's taking his place in some way. Ben is *usually* the host, but not anymore, or at least not since they've been on the outs.

"Ben would hate it" pleases Juliet (and that old lady, too, apparently). It's clear from this that their relationship has been in turmoil for a while - she's exerting personal freedom and freedom from Ben, with whom she may have previously lived (but who now lives across the village), by being the host of the club and choosing her favorite book (which happens to be one that Ben would hate).

It seemed to me that she was new at being a solo hostess (she burned the snacks she was making) but that she was pleased at the chance - she was playing a song that made her happy (to boost her spirits) and she was being very careful to arrange all the chairs, etc - it was like it was her first official party as a newly single person.

"I guess I'm out of the book club" says more than "I guess it's over" - He had to be aware of that previously. It seems as if he wasn't even included in the invitations to the latest round - he hadn't even been aware of the book of choice.

[TheTempest]

Who's to say that Sara was with any of those men?

The man at the school, might have been an over-friendly parent.

The man at the jail, might have been a "driver" or "Chauffeur", taking her to him.
I don't believe we've seen Sara with the "other man" yet.

In those scenes last night we saw how Jack inadvertanly killed his father.

...A humble man is a teachable man.

[sawyerhasbestlines]

"I guess I'm out of the book club" says more than "I guess it's over" - He had to be aware of that previously. It seems as if he wasn't even included in the invitations to the latest round - he hadn't even been aware of the book of choice.

Nice job.

It does seem like a power move. She burnt the muffins because she was nervous? Maybe there are already sides drawn in Utopia?

[Shardyk]

I believe it's the guy who was seen leaving the jail... it's a simple explanation.

[blue sunrise]

Who's to say that Sara was with any of those men?

I don't believe we've seen Sara with the "other man" yet. I agree. I'm still inclined to think that Jack's father is the other man, but now that they pointed their relationship out to us, it's looking like I'm wrong. :(

In those scenes last night we saw how Jack inadvertanly killed his father.

...A humble man is a teachable man. How did we see that?

[Z054J]

I might need to review that scene, but didn't she say that the guy at the jail was her new guy? Why would she have a chauffeur? Why would her driver be putting his arm around her?

There's not a shred of evidence, nor even any grounds for a reasonable suspicion that Ben is connected to Sara. It's a nonsense theory.

ETA:


How did we see that? (Jack killed his father)

Because of the (awkwardly-written) dialog at the jail. Sara seems to say that because of the incident at the AA meeting, Christian had a relapse and went on a drinking binge.

ETA2:

I don't think this means Jack killed his dad, but it does mean Jack's madness had a fairly long-reaching impact on his life and the lives of others (Sawyer, the non-Sawyer who owned the Shrimp Truck, etc).

[sawyerhasbestlines]

I believe it's the guy who was seen leaving the jail... it's a simple explanation.

too simple.

it means all the clues are meaningless.

[blue sunrise]

I might need to review that scene, but didn't she say that the guy at the jail was her new guy? Why would she have a chauffeur? Why would her driver be putting his arm around her?
I'm pretty sure she never said that. She said next to nothing and Jack made the assumption.

[DreaminLost]

I also think that the man that drove Sarah to the police station was not her new "him".

I think it was mearly a friend.

You may all disagree with me, but I'm still not convinced that Christian was her affair.

Neither Sarah nor Christian deny it. They both kept telling Jack to let it go.

I also believe there's a good chance that Christian's not dead. Laugh if you will, but Jack did hear his father's voice on the intercom. Juliet covered for it by suggesting Jack might start hullinating if he didn't eat.

Could be that's how they got all the information for the file on Jack.

[sawyerhasbestlines]

I might need to review that scene, but didn't she say that the guy at the jail was her new guy? Why would she have a chauffeur? Why would her driver be putting his arm around her?

There's not a shred of evidence, nor even any grounds for a reasonable suspicion that Ben is connected to Sara. It's a nonsense theory.

Again, I was thinking the same as you - until I rewatched it. It's all about the editing. The back and forth scenes from Kate to Jack. All I ask is re-watch it. Maybe I'm bonkers. Happens quite a lot. But IMO all editing roads lead to Benry.

Then there is the parallel from last season's "who is him?" (i.e. the leader). When Ethan calls Benry "boss" it's answered from last season who the leader is. Then it segue's to the parallel of Jack's insessant questioning of who is "him." I guess the parallel could be totally meaningless. But it was kind of pounding us on the head with that one last season and last night.

Then look at it even in a bigger way. For example, the psychic manipulating Claire. And the cons. I see no reason why Jack's divorce did not have some outside force pushing them in a break-up.

[MonsterEatsPilot]

too simple.

it means all the clues are meaningless.

I am not sure there are any "clues" per se, just very subtle symbols and scenes that lay out the power structure in Dharmaville.

And it seems to me lines are already drawn amongst The Others. There are those that stick with the plan (Benry, Ethan, Mr. Friendly, Goodwin) and those that are rebelling (Juliet, the boy who helped Sawyer escape -- didn't catch his name, Alex)...

Which I believe will be the main theme of this season...

MEP/Purrkins

[Warthawg1]

At the lawyers office, when she got the phone call, it was clear to me that she was speaking to a friend, someone close -- she laughed -- and this hurt Jack because it was obvious that Jack had not heard her laugh for a long long time.

I really like this comment and here is why:

Sarah seemingly still feels something for Jack. From personal experience I can tell you that if I was talking to my ex and my new lover called; I wouldn't be so callous as to laugh or do anything that might rub it in on my ex, especially if I knew that my ex was still emotionally attached to me.

[seymour.w]

Wait a minute on the Jack killed his dad thing. Is this the drinking binge that sends Christian to Australia? Or is this maybe the drinking binge that makes Christian operate under the influence accidently killing someone? Incidentally did we ever figure out who that person Christian killed was? Is there any connection there?

[sterioss]

[quote=sawyerhasbestlines;1003913]That man could just be a friend.quote]

Uh, I think its a lot more plausible to infer that the tall buff guy that gave Sarah a hug at his car is far more likely to be the Guy she leaves Jack for then Ben. I think your attempts to explain that Ben is the one who broke up Jacks house is a real stretch.

[Z054J]

Wait a minute on the Jack killed his dad thing. Is this the drinking binge that sends Christian to Australia? Or is this maybe the drinking binge that makes Christian operate under the influence accidently killing someone? Incidentally did we ever figure out who that person Christian killed was? Is there any connection there?

Yeah, his return to drinking that caused him to operate UTI. This also explains Jack's initial hesitation to turn his dad in, and his dad's ability to guilt him in to going along with the cover-up. It was only the discovery that the woman had been pregnant that provoked Jack to tell the truth.

[sterioss]

Wait a minute on the Jack killed his dad thing. Is this the drinking binge that sends Christian to Australia? Or is this maybe the drinking binge that makes Christian operate under the influence accidently killing someone? Incidentally did we ever figure out who that person Christian killed was? Is there any connection there?

I think the timeline as I understand it is that Jack first repairs Sarah, the Affair and break up happens, Christian falls off the wagon and continues drinking, Christians messes up the surgery, Jack spills the beans, Christian dissappears to Australia, Jack goes after him.

[sawyerhasbestlines]

I really like this comment and here is why:

Sarah seemingly still feels something for Jack. From personal experience I can tell you that if I was talking to my ex and my new lover called; I wouldn't be so callous as to laugh or do anything that might rub it in on my ex, especially if I knew that my ex was still emotionally attached to me.

So... Sara still feels for Jack and wants to hurt him by laughing. Seems realistic.

And it seems to me lines are already drawn amongst The Others. There are those that stick with the plan (Benry, Ethan, Mr. Friendly, Goodwin) and those that are rebelling (Juliet, the boy who helped Sawyer escape -- didn't catch his name, Alex)...
I agree 99%

Except, I thought the boy was setting Sawyer up. A staged escape. Fake blood. A skinner box playing into Sawyer's personality. Run!

Question? Where are the lines drawn? I hope it's not a man/woman.


(tangent:) Libby reminds me of Juliet, not visually, but her temperment, her vibe? anyone else get that?

[sterioss]

I simply took it as Benry is their leader and controls every aspect of their society -- including what they read -- and Juliet picked the book out of protest.

MEP/Purrkins

Ding, Ding, Ding. It seemed pretty obvious to me that Ben is the leader of their community and that Julliet has some misgivings about the way some things are handled. The male in the room was clear that Ben would not approve of the book they were reading. Julliet response is that she is the host and not Ben therefore she gets to pick the book. Prior to the earthquake Julliet is stopped midsentence but it appears she was about to say that "we still live in a Free society" Insinuating that this may be up to debate given the way that Ben is running things around here.

[DreaminLost]

So... Sara still feels for Jack and wants to hurt him by laughing. Seems realistic.


Why would she want to hurt him so much? Hasn't she hurt him enough by admitting to an affair?

Then she refuses to help him find closure by giving him a name.

She answers her phone in the lawyers office as Jack's opening up to her.

Then she laughs and says, loud enough for him to hear, that Jacks there.

Then she walks away.

Why the venom? Why is she just trying to rub salt in his wounds? It seems like more than that Jack wasn't emotionally available so she's leaving him.

[MonsterEatsPilot]

Except, I thought the boy was setting Sawyer up. A staged escape. Fake blood. A skinner box playing into Sawyer's personality. Run!



I did not get this at all -- the kid seemed beat up for real.

As for lines -- it seems women and children are the ones that are rebelling.

Now to take the Ethan / Juliet couple assumption (again my own and unfounded) I'll venture a guess that the kid that helped Sawyer escape was Juliet and Ethan's son...

MEP/Purrkins

[SpacedinLost]

Re Bookclub:

So, it was her turn to pick the book - and the bald guy complains about the literary caliber of the book, remarking that Ben would hate it, indicating that the club is Ben's, not Juliet's. She's taking his place in some way. Ben is *usually* the host, but not anymore, or at least not since they've been on the outs.

It seemed to me that she was new at being a solo hostess (she burned the snacks she was making) but that she was pleased at the chance - she was playing a song that made her happy (to boost her spirits) and she was being very careful to arrange all the chairs, etc - it was like it was her first official party as a newly single person.

"I guess I'm out of the book club" says more than "I guess it's over" - He had to be aware of that previously. It seems as if he wasn't even included in the invitations to the latest round - he hadn't even been aware of the book of choice.

Excellent summary and my thoughts *almost* exactly. But my impression was not that Juliet and Ben had been lovers, but that perhaps they had all been on "equal footing" in this Utopian society and Ben eventually made a power play and became the dictator. Or, that he started out as a more benevolent leader and is now engaging in things she never thought he'd do or that she doesn't approve of. Their relationship seems, to me, to be more of one of equal minds with different styles.

My impression is that she's lost respect for him and for his ways and what he represents. And Benry's saying "go ahead and open the hatch- you'll kill her" followed by saving his own butt and not hers by closing the hatch door in her face drove the point home to her.

Perhaps the newness of being a solo hostess has more to do with her stepping up and taking a leadership role that she either couldn't take before or didn't DARE to take before (just like choosing a book that Ben wouldn't approve of, and evidenced by her hosting a book club mtg that he wasn't invited to) and less to do with being newly single.

Did you ever have a friend or a boss that you at first admired and respected, only to see their "true colors" and end up being disgusted by them? That's kind of how I see the Juliet/ Benry thang.

[Warthawg1]

So... Sara still feels for Jack and wants to hurt him by laughing. Seems realistic

No.. she laughed on the phone because it was an innocent phone call.. not her other lover. It not being her other lover, she didn't realize Jack would assume it was and be hurt by her laughter.

If the phone call was from her other lover, she probably would have acted differently. She would have said "now is not a good time" because Jack was right there in front of her. The call being innocent, she took it.

[IMLOSTRU?]

Wait a minute on the Jack killed his dad thing. Is this the drinking binge that sends Christian to Australia? Or is this maybe the drinking binge that makes Christian operate under the influence accidently killing someone? Incidentally did we ever figure out who that person Christian killed was? Is there any connection there?


Christian killed a person, by improperly operating on them. Christian started drinking after being 50 days sober when Jack attacked him at the AA meeting, he fell off the wagon. Thus leading to his drinking and eventually his death.

[MonsterEatsPilot]

No.. she laughed on the phone because it was an innocent phone call.. not her other lover. It not being her other lover, she didn't realize Jack would assume it was and be hurt by her laughter.

If the phone call was from her other lover, she probably would have acted differently. She would have said "now is not a good time" because Jack was right there in front of her. The call being innocent, she took it.

Agreed. The call was harmless, a friend, a family member trying to brighten her spirits in this difficult time.

It was meaningless, but the laugh, at least to Jack, was not.

It made him realized that she could laugh without him, and odds are he had not heard that laugh in a long time.

Which is also why she left when Jack asked for his name -- there is no name, because there is really isn't anybody else... But by telling this to Jack she loses her power, and in a way, her will to leave him...

MEP/Purrkins

[sawyerhasbestlines]

No.. she laughed on the phone because it was an innocent phone call.. not her other lover. It not being her other lover, she didn't realize Jack would assume it was and be hurt by her laughter.

If the phone call was from her other lover, she probably would have acted differently. She would have said "now is not a good time" because Jack was right there in front of her. The call being innocent, she took it.

Oh, ok, gotcha. Great point.

[sawyerhasbestlines]

Excellent summary and my thoughts *almost* exactly. But my impression was not that Juliet and Ben had been lovers, but that perhaps they had all been on "equal footing" in this Utopian society and Ben eventually made a power play and became the dictator. Or, that he started out as a more benevolent leader and is now engaging in things she never thought he'd do or that she doesn't approve of. Their relationship seems, to me, to be more of one of equal minds with different styles.



Yup. I'm now on board with this too. Agree with your post entirely.

There definately is a power split in utopia. And there are sides being drawn up.

But because of the editing, still think Benry is behind Jack's breakup - the same way Widmore is behind Desmond's horrible circumstances, Cooper behind Locke's, the psychic with Claire,....

[Whiterabbit]

Not to discredit your theory on Sarah & Benry. But personally if that was later revealed to be true I would quit watching. There are already to many tie ins between the characters as it is, but to make Benry the evil leader of the island & to have him have something to do with Jacks divorce or his wife is just retarded imo. You could be right but I hope you're not.

[SpacedinLost]

Agreed. The call was harmless, a friend, a family member trying to brighten her spirits in this difficult time.

It was meaningless, but the laugh, at least to Jack, was not.

It made him realized that she could laugh without him, and odds are he had not heard that laugh in a long time.

Which is also why she left when Jack asked for his name -- there is no name, because there is really isn't anybody else... But by telling this to Jack she loses her power, and in a way, her will to leave him...

MEP/Purrkins

Yep.. I'm divorced (never cheated though!! Had to make that known!) and I remember loving friends/ family calling me just before court dates or atty meetings just to give me a smile before I went it, or to offer moral support. Very realistic.

As for not telling Jack the name: I'm also thinking that Jack was such an obsessed, out of control man, it would be WISE not to tell him the name at that point. If I were the wife, I'd have been afraid that he'd go after the guy and kill him.

[TheTempest]

Originally Posted by Pesty
In those scenes last night we saw how Jack inadvertently killed his father.

...A humble man is a teachable man.
How did we see that?Inadvertently is the key word. Christian falls off the wagon... yada, yada, yada,... we know the rest of the story.
If Jack hadn't accused his father of such a heinous "crime", it's very possible that he might have remained sober...
aka: Christian losing his license to practice medicine, running away to Australia and eventually "dying" (although I don't think we've seen the last of Christian;))

ETA: I just re-watched the opening scene again... There is definitely tension between Juliet, Adam and Benry.

And looking carefully frame by frame, it is a Steven King novella they're reading, and it sure looked like "Carrie" to me. Extraordinary telekinetic powers anyone?[/bookjack]

[MonsterEatsPilot]

Excellent summary and my thoughts *almost* exactly. But my impression was not that Juliet and Ben had been lovers, but that perhaps they had all been on "equal footing" in this Utopian society and Ben eventually made a power play and became the dictator. Or, that he started out as a more benevolent leader and is now engaging in things she never thought he'd do or that she doesn't approve of. Their relationship seems, to me, to be more of one of equal minds with different styles.

My impression is that she's lost respect for him and for his ways and what he represents. And Benry's saying "go ahead and open the hatch- you'll kill her" followed by saving his own butt and not hers by closing the hatch door in her face drove the point home to her.

Perhaps the newness of being a solo hostess has more to do with her stepping up and taking a leadership role that she either couldn't take before or didn't DARE to take before (just like choosing a book that Ben wouldn't approve of, and evidenced by her hosting a book club mtg that he wasn't invited to) and less to do with being newly single.

Did you ever have a friend or a boss that you at first admired and respected, only to see their "true colors" and end up being disgusted by them? That's kind of how I see the Juliet/ Benry thang.

This is very possible and I'll agree.

I still think Ethan and Juliet were a couple however and one of those decisions that led Juliet to rebel is the fact Benry sent Ethan off to spy on our Lostaways and got killed.

This is the act that caused Juliet to rethink her position in this society...

Again, no proof, just a hunch

MEP/Purrkins

[DreaminLost]

I still think Sarah's affair was with Jack's dad.

[sawyerhasbestlines]

As for not telling Jack the name: I'm also thinking that Jack was such an obsessed, out of control man, it would be WISE not to tell him the name at that point. If I were the wife, I'd have been afraid that he'd go after the guy and kill him.

That was Sara's and Christian's logic. In a sense protecting Jack.

But, what just if, as I said in the first post: "Jack is a nutjob", but in this case, his obsessions are valid? What if he's experiencing a super strong instinct. I think Jack wants to know the name for closure. He wants to know what he's lacking - so he can move on , in a sense "fix himself."

[SpacedinLost]

This is very possible and I'll agree.

I still think Ethan and Juliet were a couple however and one of those decisions that led Juliete to rebel is the fact Benry sent Ethan off to spy on our Lostaways and got killed.

This is the act that caused Juliet to rethink her position in this society...

Again, no proof, just a hunch

MEP/Purrkins

'Cept for the fact that the book club meeting in which she'd already "dissed" Benry (didn't invite him and chose a book he wouldn't like, and was making it clear to the other-others that she didn't CARE if he wouldn't like it) had already taken place before the plane crash/ sending Ethan away.

But I agree.. that didn't improve her feelings toward Benry.

[WaywardK8]

As for not telling Jack the name: I'm also thinking that Jack was such an obsessed, out of control man, it would be WISE not to tell him the name at that point. If I were the wife, I'd have been afraid that he'd go after the guy and kill him.

Certainly. Jack seemed like his head was going to explode when he was asking for the guy's name. He was acting unstable and weird. Were I the ex-wife, I'd keep my mouth shut regarding my new man to keep him safe!

Even if Jack would never hurt anyone, his actions made it seem like he was acting irrationally and dangerously. So Sarah was being smart by not revealing her new flame's name.

[Warthawg1]

Oh, ok, gotcha. Great point.

Plus SHBL.. it is important for me to know that you don't think I am poo-pooing your theory. I actually like it because you have based it on something of substance. It's just my nature to play devils advocate, and suggest reasons why it might not be true. By doing such I hopefully make people think a bit more, and hopefully come up with more reasons for an idea than I can against. Honestly I like your idea and I just want to see how it stands up to closer scrutiny. It's not my goal to blow it up.

[MonsterEatsPilot]

Good point and you are correct.

I still think something is up with Ethan and Juliet however... but yes, tensions did exist before Ethan was sent away.

Does anyone else have a feeling Juliet will be our Lostaways ticket back to Camp?

MEP/Purrkins

[WaywardK8]

To add fuel to the fire, it seems like Ben was not the original host after reviewing the scene again:

Adam: Now i know why Ben isnt here.
Juliet: Excuse me?
Adam: I know the host picks the book but seriously, Julie, he wouldnt read this in the damn bathroom.
Juliet: Well, Adam, i am the host and i do pick the book.

[lostchild]

Good point and you are correct.

I still think something is up with Ethan and Juliet however... but yes, tensions did exist before Ethan was sent away.

Does anyone else have a feeling Juliet will be our Lostaways ticket back to Camp?

MEP/Purrkins


Nah, writers will find a way to make us love her then hate her

[sawyerhasbestlines]

I did not get this at all -- the kid seemed beat up for real.

As for lines -- it seems women and children are the ones that are rebelling.

Now to take the Ethan / Juliet couple assumption (again my own and unfounded) I'll venture a guess that the kid that helped Sawyer escape was Juliet and Ethan's son...

MEP/Purrkins

The kids part is interesting. The only time we really see kids, it's their feet stomping around shoeless. And we've seen Alex, and now this kid. Both teenagers. But not babies.

I'm going to play with your idea.

Let's say Ethan is Juliet's partner, why would he be so loyal to Benry. Wouldn't they talk alone about what a jerk Benry is. Would Juliet blame Benry for Ethan's death, or would she blame Charlie for shooting him, or Jack for beating on him? Wouldn't Juliet lose respect for Ethan since he acts like an obedient dog towards Benry listening to him and not her?

Why is she doing what Benry wants? Are they all scared of him?

[WaywardK8]

The kids part is interesting. The only time we really see kids, it's their feet stomping around shoeless. And we've seen Alex, and now this kid. Both teenagers.

I don't think we see any children when the plane is crashing and the Others all run out of their houses, either... strange.

[volney]

Ah well that's what I was looking for... I had sort of forgot that the guy at the beginning made the comment that the "host" wouldn't have picked it.. meaning/implying that the former host was Benry. The Juliets comment was not calling him Ben per se', but referring also to the former host. Now that I've been reminded of the actual dialogue, I suppose what I noticed means nothing more than the implication that Benry and Juliet were once a couple or something other than my initial fuzzy thought I had when I woke up this morning, lol

What Adam says is, "Now I know why Ben isn't here. I know the host picks the book, but seriously, Julie, he wouldn't read this in the damn bathroom." Whereupon Julie reinforces that she IS the host and that she picked the book, and why.

All this says to me is that Ben is HIM, the autocrat of the Others, and that Juliet has defied him by picking a book he wouldn't like. The impression I got is of them being under Benry's thumb and afraid to offend him.

If Juliet seemed sweet on anyone, it was Ethan, who I assumed was her boyfriend.

BTW, earthquakes must be common there because I noticed a little rail to keep the CDs from falling off the shelf, like you see in libraries in Japan.

-- volney

[sawyerhasbestlines]

Does anyone else have a feeling Juliet will be our Lostaways ticket back to Camp?

MEP/Purrkins

Yes. *getting excited*

[volney]

As for not telling Jack the name: I'm also thinking that Jack was such an obsessed, out of control man, it would be WISE not to tell him the name at that point. If I were the wife, I'd have been afraid that he'd go after the guy and kill him.

Another reason too: Jack wanted to know it, so Sarah gained power by refusing to tell.

Jack's an idiot. He could have easily had the name by begging her never to tell him: "I can handle anything Sarah, anything except knowing the name of the man who has taken my place."

Watch how fast she'd tell him then.

-- volney

[MonsterEatsPilot]

The kids part is interesting. The only time we really see kids, it's their feet stomping around shoeless. And we've seen Alex, and now this kid. Both teenagers. But not babies.

I'm going to play with your idea.

Let's say Ethan is Juliet's partner, why would he be so loyal to Benry. Wouldn't they talk alone about what a jerk Benry is. Would Juliet blame Benry for Ethan's death, or would she blame Charlie for shooting him, or Jack for beating on him? Wouldn't Juliet lose respect for Ethan since he acts like an obedient dog towards Benry listening to him and not her?

Why is she doing what Benry wants? Are they all scared of him?

Well I will say that every kid we have met has seemed to be defiant towards the Others and the Others seem to be preoccupied with kids, kidnapping them whenever they can... There is something about children going on, what? Lord if I know...

As for the Ethan/Juliet relationship -- It is possible Ethan signed on to be part of the Dharma initiative and Juliet simply followed... but that is too simple. And it appears that the Dharma initiative is far too choosy to allow a simple spouse to move into this Utopian society... Besides, Juliet herself seemed to know enough about the Hydra station - a Marine biologist perhaps???

Perhaps it delves deeper however -- perhaps Ethan was a man of faith, Juliet a woman of science.

Ethan believed in the initiative and therefore followed the orders of Benry, their leader, without question. At first Juliet did as well, but then questioned Benry's logic and decisions over time and this caused the tensions between Benry and Juliet -- evident in the opening scene with her choice of reading material.

As for Juliet being angry over Ethan's death -- she would blame Benry. Benry sent him.

I also have the feeling Benry hasn't told Juliet everything. I have the feeling Benry does not trust Juliet. So, Juliet's anger would be towards Benry and not Jack or Charlie.

What is she doing that Benry wants? I think Benry is actually using Jack to see where Juliet's loyalties are.

He's not using her to get information out of Jack (they already have a big file on Jack after all, or so they say, and I tend to believe them because they know enough about him) but I think Benry's true motives are to get Jack to bond with Juliet to find out where her loyalties truly are...

MEP/Purrkins

[sawyerhasbestlines]

Purrkins, all excellent explanations. Makes sense.

Really like this:

Perhaps it delves deeper however -- perhaps Ethan was a man of faith, Juliet a woman of science.

[The_Lurker]

Then, I will make some guy from the crash bring Jack to... er... then I will capture Jack and make him... Eat a grilled cheese sandwich.
HAHA! Revenge!


LMMFAO!!!!

it means all the clues are meaningless.


No, it means that even simple clues will have Lost fanatics coming up with the most elaborate and complicated explanations, when oftentimes, the simplest explanation will do.

[Warthawg1]

What Adam says is, "Now I know why Ben isn't here. I know the host picks the book, but seriously, Julie, he wouldn't read this in the damn bathroom." Whereupon Julie reinforces that she IS the host and that she picked the book, and why.

Yes yes... I had forgotten one important sentence in the dialogue when I first woke up. It's been pointed out to me, and I remember now that which I had forgotten earlier.

[TheTempest]

What if Sara was a set up? What if she was paid to do what she did? What if the phone call was part of the act?
All of those events sent Jack into a jealous rage. Ultimately destroying his relationship with his father which "supposedly" led to his relapse.

Maybe part of the DHARMA Initiative is testing Science vs. Fate.
Can you control a persons destiny by changing a person's environment?...

Just a thought.

[sawyerhasbestlines]

What if Sara was a set up? What if she was paid to do what she did? What if the phone call was part of the act?
All of those events sent Jack into a jealous rage. Ultimately destroying his relationship with his father which "supposedly" led to his relapse.

Maybe part of the DHARMA Initiative is testing Science vs. Fate.
Can you control a persons destiny by changing a person's environment?...

Just a thought.

I like your thought a lot. Puts it in a bigger context within the show, themes we've seen before. (Remember when Cooper played Locke and then bought him off - while making him an accessory to a crime at the same time, and Claire being bought off by the psychic.)

I could also see Sara leaving Jack out of fear - and in a sense to protect him. He saved her life. That's a big burden for either of them to carry. But it's poetic justice if she has an opportunity to pay him back by doing something secretly if she believes its to save his life.

[Smartypants]

I just don't believe Dharma targeted Jack before the crash. How does that explain the scene where Benry dispatches Goodwin and Ethan to the scene for recon? "Find out if there are any survivors" not "Go spy on that Jack Shepard--you know the one whose life we've been monitoring and orchestrating and, hey, remember how we got his wife to leave him and everything?--yeah, that guy. Go see what he is up to."

[TheTempest]

Go spy on that Jack Shepard--
Who say's it's all about JacK?

Science VS. Fate.
Was it a controlled crash? Or an accident?
Was it fate that brought them to the island or science?

Is it possible to control destiny by arranging a person's life in such a way that you can literally control the outcome?

[sterioss]

I just don't believe Dharma targeted Jack before the crash. How does that explain the scene where Benry dispatches Goodwin and Ethan to the scene for recon? "Find out if there are any survivors" not "Go spy on that Jack Shepard--you know the one whose life we've been monitoring and orchestrating and, hey, remember how we got his wife to leave him and everything?--yeah, that guy. Go see what he is up to."
This scene completely debunks all speculation and theory that the survivors were selected or that they were brought to the island on purpose.

[Smartypants]

:yeah:

I was just trying to figure out how to say that. No controlled crash.

[juanbong]

I just don't believe Dharma targeted Jack before the crash. How does that explain the scene where Benry dispatches Goodwin and Ethan to the scene for recon? "Find out if there are any survivors" not "Go spy on that Jack Shepard--you know the one whose life we've been monitoring and orchestrating and, hey, remember how we got his wife to leave him and everything?--yeah, that guy. Go see what he is up to."

This scene completely debunks all speculation and theory that the survivors were selected or that they were brought to the island on purpose.

Remember when Benry told Goodwin and Ethan about making a list......these people have the technology to find out stuff. They had Jack, Sawyer, Kate, and most of the tailies names from the manifest (and probably most from the LOSTies camp) and did their homework. The list was for good people but that could just be a cover-up or scare tactics. This is how Juliet had a dossiere on Jack and even had the autopsy report on Christian.
Now how they got the information, that still is the question in my mind.

[Warthawg1]

How they got the info unimportant to me. Knowing they could have gotten it in any number of ways is all that matters.

[Mr. Doug]

I agree with the "red herring" idea. Could be nothing at all.

It WOULD explain how Juliet knew that Sarah was happy...but then she had all kinds of other info too.

I dunno...sometimes I wish I didn't care so much!

[gertie]

(tangent:) Libby reminds me of Juliet, not visually, but her temperment, her vibe? anyone else get that?


tangent response: Yes, We mentioned that in East Coast chat!

Could they be sisters? Could that be why Juliet was so angry at Benry?

Is this a different thread idea?

[vonnegut]

The thought that Sarah was with Ben is just appalling. He's not the tinest bit attractive.


I would make a disparaging comment about annoying little hobbits, but I'm above that.

And I don't want to get banned.



;)

[sawyerhasbestlines]

I would make a disparaging comment about annoying little hobbits, but I'm above that.


;)

Took you long enough.;)

gertie:Could they be sisters? Could that be why Juliet was so angry at Benry?

Is this a different thread idea?

Didn't think of it that way. I keep thinking Libby got killed off, and Juliet picked up where her character left off. It would be an interesting plot twist if Libby and Juliet were sisters. Libby had money. If they are related, that could be strong leverage over Benry.

[SpacedinLost]

Remember when Benry told Goodwin and Ethan about making a list......these people have the technology to find out stuff. They had Jack, Sawyer, Kate, and most of the tailies names from the manifest (and probably most from the LOSTies camp) and did their homework. The list was for good people but that could just be a cover-up or scare tactics. This is how Juliet had a dossiere on Jack and even had the autopsy report on Christian.
Now how they got the information, that still is the question in my mind.

WHY they got certain information is what's bugging me. If they were simply investigating Jack's background and discovered that his father was dead, what would lead them to locate and get the autopsy report? Do you think this was a real report or just something to manipulate Jack with?

[sawyerhasbestlines]

Do you think this was a real report or just something to manipulate Jack with?


We need Clayseason. Last I heard, "there was no autopsy." I think this was a writer's mechanism to bury the undead. But Jack would know whether there was one or not.

[gertie]

There's an "autopsy" thread, too. And someone mentioned that maybe the Others did the autopsy, if one was done.

So many smoke screens.

And, after a season opener, it's so easy to get off topic. Sorry SHTBL.

[Verite Garde]

I'll venture a guess that the kid that helped Sawyer escape was Juliet and Ethan's son...
MEP/Purrkins

WHY? We don't even know if Ethan and Juliette are married. Now a son?

And to the poster earlier in this thread who said Juliette might be angry with Ben for making Ethan leave and risk his life, timeline check.

Juliette's rebellion occurs before the plane crash.

[sawyerhasbestlines]

There's an "autopsy" thread, too. And someone mentioned that maybe the Others did the autopsy, if one was done.

SHTBL.

Linky?

So many threads, so little time.

[LAN]

I really like this comment and here is why:

Sarah seemingly still feels something for Jack. From personal experience I can tell you that if I was talking to my ex and my new lover called; I wouldn't be so callous as to laugh or do anything that might rub it in on my ex, especially if I knew that my ex was still emotionally attached to me.

This was one of the clearest examples to me of the reliable narrator. I have had the unfortunate experience of being cheated on....and until you are in that situation, or if you just happen to be paranoid, you know how this feels and how every move that your cheating &#!@)!~ @*#!@ makes, seems like it is the biggest assault on you in the world. You start to imagine that every call they get is "him". It was exemplified later in the episode when he is demanding to know the name of the guy. Why does he care? Once again, its hard to understand unless you've been there...but in that fragile state of mind one gets in from having their heart and trust and confidence trampled on, one tends to grasp on to certain questions that the heart seems to demand answers to.

SO my point being...perhaps the fact that Sarah was such a biotch and laughing and carrying on n front of Jack, was simply the narrator giving us a glimpse of how Jack percieved the events.
I hope this is making sense...anyone feel me on this?

[gertie]

This was one of the clearest examples to me of the reliable narrator. I have had the unfortunate experience of being cheated on....and until you are in that situation, or if you just happen to be paranoid, you know how this feels and how every move that your cheating &#!@)!~ @*#!@ makes, seems like it is the biggest assault on you in the world. You start to imagine that every call they get is "him". It was exemplified later in the episode when he is demanding to know the name of the guy. Why does he care? Once again, its hard to understand unless you've been there...but in that fragile state of mind one gets in from having their heart and trust and confidence trampled on, one tends to grasp on to certain questions that the heart seems to demand answers to.

SO my point being...perhaps the fact that Sarah was such a biotch and laughing and carrying on n front of Jack, was simply the narrator giving us a glimpse of how Jack percieved the events.
I hope this is making sense...anyone feel me on this?



Very, very much.

This is a reason I get angry at the Jack hater's. They don't know what it's like to be 'there'. So yes, I know.

I need to add, yes, perception at a fragile time is not necessarily what is really happenning. But it is seen that way.

[blue sunrise]

I still think Sarah's affair was with Jack's dad. I'm with ya, sister. :)

Edit: Hmmm. I think I need to hedge my own statement. I have thought since last season that Christian was the reason Sara left Jack because when Christian and Ana Lucia go on their little trip to Australia, the name he chooses for AL is Sara. At the time, it seemed like a pretty good assumption that Christian was in love with Sara.

Just now, I was thinking about WHY he would have chosen that name, and if Sara was part of the reason Christian got sober, he would have a very strong emotional attachment to her (but not necessarily "love" in the romantic sense). He could have chosen the name Sara because he equates "Sara" with salvation (from his drinking).

So now I'm on the fence about Christian and Sara having an affair.

[sawyerhasbestlines]

^^^ You make a strong argument for the Christian/Sara ship.

But I just can't believe in Christian Sara chemistry that way. Maybe he just loves her as a daughter in law, or admires some trait of hers. It's also possible that he decides to quit drinking for his own private reasons that have nothing to do with Sara.

[redneck once removed]

Then there is the parallel from last season's "who is him?" (i.e. the leader). When Ethan calls Benry "boss" it's answered from last season who the leader is. Then it segue's to the parallel of Jack's insessant questioning of who is "him." I guess the parallel could be totally meaningless. But it was kind of pounding us on the head with that one last season and last night.





All this says to me is that Ben is HIM, the autocrat of the Others, and that Juliet has defied him by picking a book he wouldn't like. The impression I got is of them being under Benry's thumb and afraid to offend him.



SAs far as 'him' I feel compelled to remind y'all that when Tom took Kate to the beach, he told her "HE wants to see you"

The thought that Sarah was with Ben is just appalling. He's not the tinest bit attractive

I would make a disparaging comment about annoying little hobbits, but I'm above that.

And I don't want to get banned.



;)

Took you long enough.;)



:rotfl:

I'm with ya, sister. :)

Edit: Hmmm. I think I need to hedge my own statement. I have thought since last season that Christian was the reason Sara left Jack because when Christian and Ana Lucia go on their little trip to Australia, the name he chooses for AL is Sara. At the time, it seemed like a pretty good assumption that Christian was in love with Sara.

Just now, I was thinking about WHY he would have chosen that name, and if Sara was part of the reason Christian got sober, he would have a very strong emotional attachment to her (but not necessarily "love" in the romantic sense). He could have chosen the name Sara because he equates "Sara" with salvation (from his drinking).

So now I'm on the fence about Christian and Sara having an affair.

That is interesting, nice catch!

[Noav Sigless]

I'm the only one that thinks all this Benry/Juliet, Benry/Sarah stuff belongs in shippers?
I guess I'm just not a romantic.

[sawyerhasbestlines]

SAs far as 'him' I feel compelled to remind y'all that when Tom took Kate to the beach, he told her "HE wants to see you"

Forgot about that one. :)

I'm the only one that thinks all this Benry/Juliet, Benry/Sarah stuff belongs in shippers?
I guess I'm just not a romantic.

Noav, Please don't do that. Anyone that knows me, knows I puke at the thought of gratuitious romance. The point of the thread if you read through it: is "Benry is him" - the him referred to last season. And that he may play a hand in Sara's breakup with Jack.

This is not a shipper thread. :DeadHorse: :scared: :irked: :pissed: :vomit: :vomit: :vomit: :vomit: :vomit:

Some of the other points brought up in here is that Sara may have been paid off to leave Jack. (Thank you Tempest). But also, speculation to the root of the power struggle between Benry and Juliet.