View Full Version : Desmond, Hurley, and Locke's Speech
XxForever LostxX
10-19-06, 02:03 AM
I am totally confused on the whole Desmond and Hurley thing. What's going on???
jeever79
10-19-06, 02:03 AM
Did anybody else notice Hurley's feaky and obesessive look at the end of tonights ep? He looked bent on exploiting Desmond for some reason - any ideas??
The_Lurker
10-19-06, 02:04 AM
My idea is that he was freaked out because Desmond predicted the future.
Without Dane
10-19-06, 02:05 AM
Exploiting? Not at all.
It was a look of "wow, that guy can see the future. that's uncommon."
Others16
10-19-06, 02:05 AM
Yeah wuts with the speech, did Locke say it to Des whiel they were out of it when the hatch imploded. What was with the toy truck also in the cave? Cant wait till next week, Ben goes crazy!!!!!!
Without Dane
10-19-06, 02:06 AM
Desmond had a vision (multiple?) of the future. Hurley is the only one who knows.
dreck1177
10-19-06, 02:06 AM
somehow desmond predicted the future..then locke gave his speech and hurley realized it...although in my opinion....now realizing that desmond had predicted the future..when he first said that to hurley, it seemed as though he knew he almost messed up, as he dindt really know what to say when hurley said that basically hasnt happened YET....does desmond have some kind of secret that we dont know of???
juanbong
10-19-06, 02:07 AM
Did anybody else notice Hurley's feaky and obesessive look at the end of tonights ep? He looked bent on exploiting Desmond for some reason - any ideas??
Hurley may be the only one who sees Desmond. Maybe one of his hallucinations.
An"Other"
10-19-06, 02:08 AM
Hurley may be the only one who sees Desmond. Maybe one of his hallucinations.
Locke saw him too....
djsunyc
10-19-06, 02:08 AM
wait wait wait...did desmond look into the future or did he experience this already?!?!?!? this could get VERY trippy and interesting???!??! a time warp for desmond perhaps!?!?!?!
XxForever LostxX
10-19-06, 02:09 AM
Desmond had a vision (multiple?) of the future. Hurley is the only one who knows.
Thank you so much!
Perhaps when the hatch imploded, something happened to Desmond? Because I don't think he had any powers before hand, or else he wouldn't have wasted his time with the hatch if he could see the future.
Stowaway
10-19-06, 02:10 AM
somehow desmond predicted the future..then locke gave his speech and hurley realized it...although in my opinion....now realizing that desmond had predicted the future..when he first said that to hurley, it seemed as though he knew he almost messed up, as he dindt really know what to say when hurley said that basically hasnt happened YET....does desmond have some kind of secret that we dont know of???
I think Desmond was confused about what was the future and what was the past. He remembered Locke's speech but didn't realize at first it was a memory of something that hadn't happened yet.
juanbong
10-19-06, 02:10 AM
Locke saw him too....
Funny you mention this. Remember how Sawyer saw Kate's black horse? Now deja vu...
Interesting developments brewing!
Oh yeah, merged both threads due to same topic.
Thanks.
juanbong
10-19-06, 02:12 AM
Merging with another thread on Desmond, Hurley, and Locke's interactions.
Thanks.
DharmaUdonNoodles
10-19-06, 02:13 AM
I had the same thought. Either the blast awakened his psychic abilities, or it shook him out of a repetitive pattern that all of them are living in.
Heat Miser
10-19-06, 02:17 AM
Clearly, Hiro saved Desmond from the implosion by bringing him to the future, then returned him and.... oh wait, getting my shows confused there.
DreaminLost
10-19-06, 02:21 AM
This entire episode was too weird.
Desmond wasn't close enough to even hear Locke's speech.
I didn't like this episode one bit.
I kept hoping Locke would wake up from his hullinating.
So when did Desmond lose his clothes?
In the opening sceens I thought he was clothed as he ran by Locke, but later is naked. Did I get that wrong? What if someone took his clothes from him, and he never did explain to hurly why he was naked he just said something to the effect of 'Do you want all the details?' and then they both moved on, although I was thinking 'hell yeah I want all the details!'
DreaminLost
10-19-06, 02:24 AM
Every moment of this episode was freaky. The whole flippin thing.
Boone
The polar bear
The Tonka truck
Eko talking to Locke
ETC ETC ETC
AAAaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhh.
:confused:
Jaypers
10-19-06, 02:29 AM
Desmond was naked both times...
Jaypers
10-19-06, 02:30 AM
Clearly, Hiro saved Desmond from the implosion by bringing him to the future, then returned him and.... oh wait, getting my shows confused there.
Maybe the nukes going off all over the country caused Desmond to travel in...wait...mixed up shows again.
Hurley4Prez
10-19-06, 02:31 AM
It looks as if Desmond experienced some kind of time anomaly during the explosion.
Which means, time is an x-factor on the island.
CloudofBlackSmoke
10-19-06, 02:31 AM
Just look at the setup. Desmond can see the future sort of... now think of Penelope and how they can incorporate her.
djsunyc
10-19-06, 02:35 AM
Just look at the setup. Desmond can see the future sort of... now think of Penelope and how they can incorporate her.
hey hey hey hey hey...what if that scene with penny at the season 2 finale was in desmond's mind? this happened AFTER the failsafe was triggered. so let's say desmond get's futuristic visions...then maybe that scene with penny was a vision by desmond?
LightSide/DarkSide
10-19-06, 02:57 AM
...then maybe that scene with penny was a vision by desmond?
hmmm... offhand that's the only scene I can think of that has taken place off the island that wasn't part of a flashback... Unless TPTB does more off-island scenes then I think you may just be on to something here.
truffula
10-19-06, 02:57 AM
Mod note: I retitled this thread "Desmond, Hurley, and Locke's Speech"
Just an FYI ;)
(hehehe, first Sawyer says it, now tonight Hurley :p "FYI")
how did desmond lose his clothes and when did locke see desmond i think only hurley has actually spoken with desmond.
Mr. Peppers
10-19-06, 03:23 AM
The messing of Desmond's time is in here somewhere. How and Why, who knows? That will also explain why he had time to save Locke, Eko, possibly Charlie, and Himself from the implode of the hatch. Anyone remember how Charlie was acting at the end of season 2? "What? There not back yet?" Seems like Desmond is a time traveler and/or time stopper.
mr peppers about charlie and last season he didn't want to admit he left them all there at the hatch he was lying to claire when he said aren't they back yet.
LightSide/DarkSide
10-19-06, 03:28 AM
how did desmond lose his clothes and when did locke see desmond i think only hurley has actually spoken with desmond.
When Locke was lying on his back at the beginning of the episode he saw Desmond running past. It kind of reminded me of Jack and Vincent at the beginning of the pilot.
yoyoj06
10-19-06, 03:32 AM
this whole precognition thing i guess is a whole new episode surrounding desmond, just another question to answer
Prof_Frink
10-19-06, 03:44 AM
When did Desmond give the speach?
ISLANDLEA
10-19-06, 03:45 AM
this whole precognition thing i guess is a whole new episode surrounding desmond, just another question to answer
hi, but that look from Hurley -- I said it before-- i'll say it again>>>
Hurley is the MAN> he is the dude that will figure things out...lea
and I don't think he trusts Desmond
Prof_Frink
10-19-06, 04:05 AM
Damn, i missed the part that Hurley met Des? What was the deja vu about?
Now I have to watch it on abc.com later. Good thing its free!
I'm glad Des is alive, good actor.
Lyonyssa
10-19-06, 04:08 AM
Einstein's theory of time (unproven at the time of his death) is explained basically like a multi-lane highway. Man doesn't possess the ability to travel between the lanes. If Desmond was at the epi-center of the electro-magnetic anomoly when it imploded, the force could have been enough to propel him across the "lanes" allowing him brief glimpses of what occurs there before being yanked back to where he belonged by some sort of cosmic rubber band. This would have allowed him to have the flashback of Penny getting the phone call and witnessing Locke's speech. The force of it alone, could have been enough to destroy his clothes and leave him confused about what's happening vs what has happened and what wil happen. Does this make sense to anyone else?
Prof_Frink
10-19-06, 04:11 AM
In the terminator, Arnold traveled back in time and he was naked, just like Desmond. Then arnold stole some Leather jacket and sunglasses, Desmond got a tie-dye shirt.
truffula
10-19-06, 04:16 AM
In the terminator, Arnold traveled back in time and he was naked, just like Desmond.
Now THAT I like the sound of. Good connection. :)
ETA - adding on...something just hit me.....
Desmond didn't travel into the future.
He experienced REMOTE VIEWING.
Hurley4Prez
10-19-06, 04:20 AM
Did it hit you yet how that first sentence struck me? lol
truffula
10-19-06, 04:35 AM
Did it hit you yet how that first sentence struck me? lol
I can only imagine :no-no:
Stay on target, stay on target
Ooops....TOPIC...stay on TOPIC....D'oh ;)
rknorton91
10-19-06, 04:36 AM
When Locke was lying on his back at the beginning of the episode he saw Desmond running past. It kind of reminded me of Jack and Vincent at the beginning of the pilot.
I thought it looked exactly like the opening episode with Jack waking up after the crash and he is lying on the ground in the middle of a bamboo forest and he sees vincent come up then run away. I think there is definitely some connection here. I think both of them were placed there by someone or something.
Now for Desmond yeah it could be a time travel/warp thing or it could be the whispers things/remote viewers or maybe something due to old smokie maybe? LOL with in the context of the show time travel or warping seems about the only slightly outlandish exlpanation.
Hey did anyone else get the feeling that when Hurley finally decided to do what the others had told him to do. Which was he was supposed to go back and tell them what happened and that they were not supposed to go back to the others area. He got interupted by Locke who instead told them what happened but then said that they would get them back. To me it looked like suddenly Locke became the leader of the group. I wonder if the others had meant for Hurley to go back and do that and that would somehow make him the defacto leader and they would have done what the others had told them to do. Instead of following Locke
Hurley4Prez
10-19-06, 04:38 AM
Truff, (spoilertag if you have to), was there any reference to time anomalies in TLE?
truffula
10-19-06, 04:42 AM
Truff, (spoilertag if you have to), was there any reference to time anomalies in TLE?
There were no references to any kind of "time anomoly".
The closest it got was....
the website about Famous Missing Ships, the easter egg of which was the Black Rock
Hurley4Prez
10-19-06, 04:45 AM
Interesting. :scratchch Thanks Truff. :)
I was hoping they let a little more slip about that in TLE, but I'm not complaining at all about tonights episode. Best Locke episode in a long, long time.
(Besides his 15 second run-in with the blacklight map.)
Mysterious Mike
10-19-06, 04:51 AM
Desmond didn't travel into the future.
He experienced REMOTE VIEWING.
Exactly
How the hatch imploding allowed this to happen is the question ?
I think we may see the hatch escape in the next Eko centric episode. I am guessing they got out and were hit by some sort of shockwave.
This is the way I saw it, and I've watched it three times in a row.
When Hurley left Jack and Charlie, Hurley asked where they were going, Charlie said that the island told Locke he has to save Eko and that a bear has got him.
When Hurley found Desmond nude, Hurley asked him if the hatch blew his clothes off, but it wasn't til later that Desmond told Hurley that the hatch imploded, then Desmond said "Locke's gonna go after them, he said so in his speech", Hurley replied "What, what speech? All he said was he was gonna save Eko and kill bears."
In Locke's speech he said that Jack, Kate, and Swayer were taken by the others, but he was gonna find them, They were gonna find them, and then we're gonna bring them home, but first thing first we gotta look after Mr Eko. All the while Desmond is throwing rocks into the ocean.
If that is too confusing I'll try to simplify it..................................
Hurley said something to Desmond, that he couldn't have known about but Desmond later confirmed.
Hurley was told something by Charlie, but Hurley thinks that Locke told him.
Desmond told Hurley something that Locke said, but hasn't actually said it yet, and he couldn't have heard it in the first place cause he was standing near the waves, throwing rocks, when Locke eventually did say it.
Ya got that?
Mysterious Mike
10-19-06, 05:02 AM
I don't think we need an interpretation , we all got it.
Most of us at least.
Evilrabbit
10-19-06, 05:04 AM
This is the way I saw it, and I've watched it three times in a row.
When Hurley left Jack and Charlie, Hurley asked where they were going, Charlie said that the island told Locke he has to save Eko and that a bear has got him.
When Hurley found Desmond nude, Hurley asked him if the hatch blew his clothes off, but it wasn't til later that Desmond told Hurley that the hatch imploded, then Desmond said "Locke's gonna go after them, he said so in his speech", Hurley replied "What, what speech? All he said was he was gonna save Eko and kill bears."
In Locke's speech he said that Jack, Kate, and Swayer were taken by the others, but he was gonna find them, They were gonna find them, and then we're gonna bring them home, but first thing first we gotta look after Mr Eko. All the while Desmond is throwing rocks into the ocean.
If that is too confusing I'll try to simplify it..................................
Hurley said something to Desmond, that he couldn't have known about but Desmond later confirmed.
Hurley was told something by Charlie, but Hurley thinks that Locke told him.
Desmond told Hurley something that Locke said, but hasn't actually said it yet, and he couldn't have heard it in the first place cause he was standing near the waves, throwing rocks, when Locke eventually did say it.
Ya got that?
So confused! So if Desmond's weird precognition is due to some sort of psychic ability and not time travel/remote viewing, would this be anything at all like Walt's powers? Did something similar to a hatch implosion happen near Walt that made him able to know things, like about the hatch (don't open it) before he'd ever seen it?
My first thought was that there was some sort of telepathic connection between the main 3 people in the hatch when it detonated, and that Desmond hadn't "seen" the speech, but he knew Locke was planning to make one when he got to the beach because Locke unknowingly communicated this to him. And this connection affected Eko too and that's how he knew J/K/S were in danger. Or the same source of telepathic instructions told Locke to make a speech, and told Desmond he'd be making it. It would explain why the ep is called "Further Instructions."
Mysterious Mike
10-19-06, 05:07 AM
I stand corrected.
LuLuLemon
10-19-06, 05:15 AM
In the terminator, Arnold traveled back in time and he was naked, just like Desmond. Then arnold stole some Leather jacket and sunglasses, Desmond got a tie-dye shirt.
The same thing happens to a character named Henry in The Time Traveler's Wife. I love that book.
IMLOSTRU?
10-19-06, 05:17 AM
I belive it is due to infinite regression. When Locke woke up at the beginning like that it was so much like Jack them laying there sound coming in, close up eye shot..
Locke is now living the life of Jack. All the things he said in his speech were Jack-esque.
Here is the link to my post in T&S.
http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19544
Evilrabbit
10-19-06, 05:17 AM
So people are allowed to defy the laws of the universe and travel through time, but clothes aren't? Because clothes must conform to a different set of physical laws? Makes about as much sense as anything else.
TheTempest
10-19-06, 06:08 AM
The term déjà vu is French and means, literally, "already seen."
What do you think is going on with Desmond?
Precognition?
Clairvoyance?
Dead?
Alive?
Did the implosion bend space and time?
Or has he been hanging out with Hiro? ;)
I think he had a Locke/Eko dream moment, where he pictured Locke giving his speech. Predicting/seeing the future wouldn't be part of it because Desmond didn't even listen to Locke's speech, he was down at the water tossing rocks.
Without Dane
10-19-06, 06:17 AM
I think he had a Locke/Eko dream moment, where he pictured Locke giving his speech. Predicting/seeing the future wouldn't be part of it because Desmond didn't even listen to Locke's speech, he was down at the water tossing rocks.
Right, but predicting/seeing the future doesn't have to be limited to predicting/seeing something you are directly involved in.
I like the idea that he actually has experienced the future much, much more than simply having had a vision (which is getting pretty gimmicky on LOST in my book).
LightSide/DarkSide
10-19-06, 06:17 AM
Or Des lived through all of this already and since he paid attention to Locke's speech the first time around he didn't feel like having another listen this time?
Deadfall
10-19-06, 06:21 AM
Clairvoyance, I think. We already know that such abilities are linked to the island (think Walt here), so it's especially interesting that an event on the island (the hatch imploding) seems to trigger something in Desmond. ...Actually, I think it's possible it's triggered something in all three of the hatch survivors. True, Locke's trippy vision was a part of his voodoo drug paste, but what if it was also fueled by a similar quasi-psychic ability? ...And if Eko really did speak to Locke about rescuing the others, how would he know to refer to Locke as "the hunter?" By the time Eko entered the camp, Locke was too absorbed in the hatch to have been his ol' hunter self, searching for boar and whatnot. Maybe Eko also has a new ability-- reading minds? I don't know, but I do think Desmond now has a form of clairvoyance.
I could buy seeing the future from his own vantage point. I wouldn't buy just generally seeing the future.
I like the idea that he actually has experienced the future much, much more than simply having had a vision (which is getting pretty gimmicky on LOST in my book)
It's a Lost staple though. I really can't see them explaining the Desmond issue by saying he saw a vision of the future from someone elses vantage point.
There's a few possibilities that I wouldn't mind seeing, but seeing the future is not one of them.
Deadfall
10-19-06, 06:23 AM
I like the idea that he actually has experienced the future much, much more than simply having had a vision (which is getting pretty gimmicky on LOST in my book).
I agree. I think it certainly looks like he had a vision, of course... Probably a red herring. BUT it would be soooo cool if Desmond had somehow already experienced the future. :Cheers:
Or maybe Desmond just knows the way Locke is. He knows that he is the best person to be the leader amongst who is left. Many times Jack has made speeches to the group, as he was represented as the leader. Now it could be Locke's turn. This would now have nothing to do with foresight.
Without Dane
10-19-06, 06:31 AM
Or maybe Desmond just knows the way Locke is. He knows that he is the best person to be the leader amongst who is left. Many times Jack has made speeches to the group, as he was represented as the leader. Now it could be Locke's turn. This would now have nothing to do with foresight.
I think that would defeat the only twist of the episode. (and Desmond himself had a look on his face at the end implying an awareness of this strange new plot point).
hollywoodkids
10-19-06, 06:33 AM
"Failsafe" was a term used in the independent time travel movie, "Primer".
It allows you to travel back to the beginning of a timeline if things get too squirrelly. Once Desmond saw Locke give the speech once, he didn't have to watch it the second time. He wasn't aware of his "time tripping" yet, but once he figured it out because of Hurley's comment, he clammed up.
Perhaps the failsafe pulls things back a bit and destroys the control system to the magnetic anomaly, tweaking spacetime even more than just pushing the button alone did.
I think Benry's group may have been an original element of the island, and was something that Dharma (now long gone) was studying as well. I feel that animal spirit guides and the sweatlodge have a Native American connection. Keeping Jack, Kate and Sawyer in cages has meaning, and I think Benry is a snake that is now a human. The symbolism was very deep in "Further Instructions", and since allegory and symbolism are my favorite elements of "Lost", this was one of my favorite episodes yet.
Jack = Shark
Sawyer = Polar Bear
Kate = Horse
Locke = Monkey
Benry = Snake
Juliet = Mongoose
Hurley = Pig
Charlie = Rat
Eko = Goose
Oh, and the Tonka truck was letting us know that the Polar Bear ate the barefoot, teddy bear carrying children.
"It is a poor sort of memory that only works backwards."
Without Dane
10-19-06, 06:35 AM
"Failsafe" was a term used in the independent time travel movie, "Primer".
It allows you to travel back to the beginning of a timeline if things get too squirrelly. Once Desmond saw Locke give the speech once, he didn't have to watch it the second time. He wasn't aware of his "time tripping" yet, but once he figured it out because of Hurley's comment, he clammed up.
Perhaps the failsafe pulls things back a bit and destroys the control system to the magnetic anomaly, tweaking spacetime even more than just pushing the button alone did.
I think Benry's group may have been an original element of the island, and was something that Dharma (now long gone) was studying as well. I feel that animal spirit guides and the sweatlodge have a Native American connection. Keeping Jack, Kate and Sawyer in cages has meaning, and I think Benry is a snake that is now a human. The symbolism was very deep in "Further Instructions", and since allegory and symbolism are my favorite elements of "Lost", this was one of my favorite episodes yet.
Jack = Shark
Sawyer = Polar Bear
Kate = Horse
Locke = Monkey
Benry = Snake
Juliet = Mongoose
Hurley = Pig
Charlie = Rat
Eko = Goose
Oh, and the Tonka truck was letting us know that the Polar Bear ate the barefoot, teddy bear carrying children.
"It is a poor sort of memory that only works backwards."
...
Hurley4Prez
10-19-06, 06:41 AM
:yeah:
Unlocke Locke
10-19-06, 06:46 AM
Thinking back on how Desmond originally just happened to run into Jack and their discussing Sarah's operation, I think that Desmond has some sort of clairvoyance. He has demonstrated it in the past.
I remember Desmond telling Jack to "hold it up" or something like that which could have had a double meaning because Jack questioned the remark.
I do not think it was a coincidence that Desmond showed up while Jack was jogging that night. Don't laugh, but I think Desmond may be some sort of shaman.
Desmond also said he has had medical training, so he may be the one to do the doctoring while Jack is gone.
drabauer
10-19-06, 07:02 AM
Desmond appears to my eyes to be a prophet. It would be wonderful if he were a shaman too!
Noav Sigless
10-19-06, 07:21 AM
Merged, hopefully with little confusion. Sorry I didn't get here earlier.
Oh hum. Tiddley bum, am I the only one that watched the episode rather than trying to dig through it?
Did he see into the futre? I doubt it.
Was he quoting something from the past? probably.
Hey people, where do YOU think all three of them have been for over a day? How do you think that they got out of the hatch so quickly? All three of them alive. Maybe you should start looking into how they knew about who was captured? 8 of them went yet only 3 are in danger, how did they know this?
Maybe, just maybe, Desmond has heard Locke make a speech on the missing day. The question is...
Who To?
Noav Sigless
10-19-06, 07:54 AM
I think Hurley questioning the statement and then talking about deja vu during Locke's speech pretty much confirms we were meant to believe Desmond saw the future. I doubt this will be the last time this happens.
I really don't want it to keep happening.
Noav Sigless
10-19-06, 08:10 AM
He may have been knocked out of sync with time. I just prefer science fiction over shaman magic. It's still pretty out there though.
Tanatie
10-19-06, 08:11 AM
about the clothes...maybe the clothes movet to the future as opposed to desmond leaving the clothes in the present...another s. king refference: in langoliers the people first move 15 minutes in the past and so everything has moved on and they later find a way of moving 15 minutes into the future and time catches up with them...but while they're in the past they see wigs, tooth fillings, pacemakers etc. left behind by the people who moved normally through time...
Oh, and the Tonka truck was letting us know that the Polar Bear ate the barefoot, teddy bear carrying children.
I'd disagree. I'd say it showed merely that the bears have gotten at least one child in the past. The child with the teddy bear is implied to be the child who later appears with his sister in "The Other 48 Days". I see no connection here.
drabauer
10-19-06, 08:55 AM
I believe that this image at lost-media (http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?pid=76964&fullsize=1) displays a child's skull emerging from the Dharma rucksack.
Desmond appears to my eyes to be a prophet. It would be wonderful if he were a shaman too!
a couple of months ago i saw "The Gospel of John" on video... starring Henry Ian Cusick (Des)... hmmm..
either he is jesus, OR he's:detective smoking something that locke gave him. :detective
caldric
10-19-06, 11:25 AM
Maybe Desmond has always had some sort of awareness of the future. He did paint the mural, which included a plane going down in flames, right? And a black man standing next to a white man (Eko/Locke).
ophiliandra
10-19-06, 11:41 AM
I'm fairly certain that something transformative happened to Desmond when the hatch went Kablooey. Hurley drops a bit of a clue when he asks Desmond if he's going to go all Hulk on them, which is right before Desmond blurts out his Locke prophecy.
So given the Hulk reference from Hurley, I think we're meant to infer that the hatch incident did something to Desmond which gives him a new power, beyond magically shedding his knickers (for which I offer my most heartfeat gratitude to TPTB).
juanbong
10-19-06, 12:14 PM
Einstein's theory of time (unproven at the time of his death) is explained basically like a multi-lane highway. Man doesn't possess the ability to travel between the lanes. If Desmond was at the epi-center of the electro-magnetic anomoly when it imploded, the force could have been enough to propel him across the "lanes" allowing him brief glimpses of what occurs there before being yanked back to where he belonged by some sort of cosmic rubber band. This would have allowed him to have the flashback of Penny getting the phone call and witnessing Locke's speech. The force of it alone, could have been enough to destroy his clothes and leave him confused about what's happening vs what has happened and what wil happen. Does this make sense to anyone else?
Interesting that you mention this sicne Locke's shaman awakening experience had him crawling up an escalator. Locke could have chosen the left or right escalator but he chose the middle one. Hmmmm....
I think the implosion did something to all three of them. Desmond knew of Locke's speach, Locke knew he had to talk to the island to find out what to do, and Eko seemed to know that lock will find their friends because he's a "hunter". The "hunter/farmer" theme was talked about in Locke's flash back.
Anyone else notice that Hurley says something about the hatch blowing desmonds cloths off before he knows that the hatch imploded.
:confused::confused::confused:
WhoWhatWhere
10-19-06, 12:57 PM
Maybe Des was just 'early' in asking about the speech... maybe it was 'scripted' somewhere (Des and Locke in on 'something' together') - makes more sense than clairvoyancy in my books.
I noticed that too. I thought when Hurley met up with Locke and Charlie he was on his way back from the dock. So how could he know what happened?
Locke and Desmond had also spent a lot of time in the hatch together before any of this happened. We didn't see the vast majority of it. We don't know how much they bonded or connected. That could also be part of it. We don't know what the explosion did to solidify this.
Could be coincidence, but much more likely was something between them from before. Something we hadn't been privy to, but may see in a flashback at some point. (Ok, at least that's what I'm hoping)
ILikeLostBrunettes
10-19-06, 01:05 PM
Desmond has changed, somehow. This was an actual future-viewing by Des, as he was referring to the speech Locke was about to give.
trink2030
10-19-06, 01:09 PM
now wait a second, Charlie said something to the lines of where have you been for the last day....I think that locke and desmonde have been corrupted by the others and planted with information to get them to bring everyone to the others which would explain the lost day after the implosion of the hatch....like locke said, I will take you all to get back our people....
much more feasible than time warping....haaha
ILikeLostBrunettes
10-19-06, 01:09 PM
Maybe Locke told Hurley what happened, off screen. It happens.
ILikeLostBrunettes
10-19-06, 01:10 PM
Feasible? Maybe.
Actuality? Nope.
trink2030
10-19-06, 01:14 PM
Feasible? Maybe.
Actuality? Nope.
so you're with the time warp theory?
trink2030
10-19-06, 01:15 PM
how do you know they aren't both in on it conciously or unconsiously, should would explain why desmond knew there was going to be a speech
ILikeLostBrunettes
10-19-06, 01:20 PM
I think Desmond was told Locke was going to give a speech, or he saw it.
You should read next week's Episode Description on the www.lost-tv.com (http://www.lost-tv.com) webpage.
JacksGirlfriend
10-19-06, 01:52 PM
I figured he'd already walked past it.
Maybe Des will build a phone booth that travels through time. I can't wait! :D
Maybe Des will build a phone booth that travels through time. I can't wait! :D
No, then Keanu Reeves would need to join the cast, and I believe that the level of dialogue in LOST is slightly above Bill & Ted. ;)
cookcounty
10-19-06, 04:35 PM
how do you know they aren't both in on it conciously or unconsiously, should would explain why desmond knew there was going to be a speech
This is my pet theory also. It's quite a leap to say that because Desmond knows Locke is going to give a speech it necessarily means that he is capable of seeing the future. There are other possible explanations, such as, there is a script of sorts for the events on the island. (This "script" could have been subliminally communicated to Locke through a vision, or by Others whispering to him as he sleeps, or any number of other ways--he is "amenable to persuasion" or whatever, after all.)
Desmond's reaction when Hurley asked him what he was talking about re: the speech wasn't a dazed and confused kind of "whoa, what's happening to me?" reaction IMO--he let something slip and was covering it up.
Prof_Frink
10-19-06, 04:52 PM
Yeah, I also agree that Locke and Desmond may have bonded both mentally and physically. There were both naked. Maybe Desmond absorbed some of Locke's brain and can now know what Locke is thinking. It could be telepathic. The explosion could have created one person/mind, the double-spined beast.
melancana
10-19-06, 04:59 PM
There are definitely a lot of possibilities, but I'm leaning toward Prophet Desmond myself. Partly because of what Ben said to Jack about prophets: "Men fear their prophets and slay them, but they love their martyrs and honor those whom they have slain. So what's the difference between a prophet and a martyr?" Or something like that.
Although if Desmond is a prophet, then that quote becomes rather ominous...
Prof_Frink
10-19-06, 05:01 PM
Why did Des ask Hurley if he was alone?
Then he asked Hurley for some clothes. Was des afraid that some chix would he little Des?
Des should have just asked for the clothes first. Unless Des was waiting for Locke and Charlie? Or Des was afraid of the Others attacking him ? Or if Hurley brought a polar bear.
chaos28
10-19-06, 05:05 PM
It's not any sort of mind combination thing between Desmond and Locke, because Desmond talked about the speech in the past tense. That means to him, the speech already happened. So somehow, Desmond knew it was going to happen.
Desmond mentioned the speach very non-chalantly, meaning obviously didn't think Hurley would notice anything weird. In fact, he assumed Hurley had already heard or seen the speach, too. So something has completely skewed Desmond's concept of time to the point where he doesn't seem to be sure what time he's actually in.
Desmond was closest to the failsafe when it went off. Maybe that failsafe has something to do with the 108 minutes between activations of the electromagnetic charge on the magnet found in the Hatch. If this charge needs to be released every 108 minutes, where does this release go? I don't much about electromagnetics, so maybe someone out there can enlighten me on this.
What if Desmond is trapped in a kind of "reset mode" himself? I might have to look into this more, but it's possible that he knew of Locke's speech, and seems overall apathetic and bored in his sittuation, because maybe time is reseting for him every 108 minutes right now, or something to that effect. We don't notice it, because we have only seen episodes from other characters' points-of-view, since the event that would have altered Desmond. But if we get a Desmond flashback, maybe it will be him trying to stop this perpetually repeating process.
Or maybe he just has knowledge of things that happen 108 minutes in the future. If there is some time aspect, it could be some sort of reversed time... maybe everything 108 minutes in the future from Desmond's moment has already been revealed to him as if it were the past. Or maybe his mind exists in both time frames, and he simply has the knowledge from both.
Either way, there better be a good explanation for this. Because until this point, with the major exception being miraculous healing (Locke/Rose), most of what we've seen is scientifical possible/plausible, even if it's very unlikely.
Rollergrrl
10-19-06, 05:09 PM
i'm guessing hurley walked by the crater on his way back from the dock..
and definitely not enough nekkid desmond imo.
Funshine
10-19-06, 05:13 PM
how did desmond lose his clothes and when did locke see desmond i think only hurley has actually spoken with desmond.
I think Desmond is actually a Terminator unit sent back from the end of mankind to complete his mission.
This would explain his lack of clothing.
/yes, this is a joke.
Why did Des ask Hurley if he was alone?
Then he asked Hurley for some clothes. Was des afraid that some chix would he little Des?
Des should have just asked for the clothes first. Unless Des was waiting for Locke and Charlie? Or Des was afraid of the Others attacking him ? Or if Hurley brought a polar bear.
I also wondered why Hurly asked about the hatch blowing his clothes off since he was on the dock when the explosion happened. Seems like the only possible answers are 1) Locke told him off screen about it 2) script error
Des seemed embarrased when Hurly found him- thats why he hid in the bushes and asked "are you alone brother?" - then asked if the camp was close by and if he could bring him some clothes.
Des definatley has some wires crossed - but I don't think he has any evil intentions.
I think Desmond is actually a Terminator unit sent back from the end of mankind to complete his mission.
This would explain his lack of clothing.
/yes, this is a joke.
what is this "joke" you speak of... we dont have them around here.
:D
DreaminLost
10-19-06, 05:18 PM
... since he was on the dock when the explosion happened. Seems like the only possible answers are 1) Locke told him off screen about it 2) script error.
Yes, but that plot point is just too big for either of those explanations.
It just doesn't make sense!
redsoxgalbeme
10-19-06, 05:22 PM
I also wondered why Hurly asked about the hatch blowing his clothes off since he was on the dock when the explosion happened. Seems like the only possible answers are 1) Locke told him off screen about it 2) script error
or 3) Hurley had been at the Pearl watching.
*Saint*
10-19-06, 05:23 PM
Einstein's theory of time (unproven at the time of his death) is explained basically like a multi-lane highway. Man doesn't possess the ability to travel between the lanes. If Desmond was at the epi-center of the electro-magnetic anomoly when it imploded, the force could have been enough to propel him across the "lanes" allowing him brief glimpses of what occurs there before being yanked back to where he belonged by some sort of cosmic rubber band. This would have allowed him to have the flashback of Penny getting the phone call and witnessing Locke's speech. The force of it alone, could have been enough to destroy his clothes and leave him confused about what's happening vs what has happened and what wil happen. Does this make sense to anyone else?
Yes!!! I am so glad that you brought his up! It wouldn't necessarily be complete "time travel" per say, because Desmond would only be experiencing brief moments between "lanes." To him, it would seem like a congruent reality...only until another person is involved. Then, we see the state of confusion as we did last night with his conversation with Hurley. This isn't too far out, and definitely would be "flirting" with the entire "time travel" theory... TPTB could get away with stating it isn't time travel, because it's just flirting with it.
Funshine
10-19-06, 05:23 PM
what is this "joke" you speak of... we dont have them around here.
:D
I believe it may be more commonly referred to as a "funny haha"...
louise71594
10-19-06, 05:24 PM
I was listening to the radio this morning, and one of the stations always does a post Lost show every Thursday, and someone called in and suggested that is was possible that Desmond died in the implosion, and thats why none of the other losties noticed him standing there throwing rocks, but Hurley.
I did not think about that until after I watched the scene again! He appeared to be non-existing. But then I asked why would Hurley see him, and I then I thought, he is probably the messenger. I don't know, just guessing.
DreaminLost
10-19-06, 05:30 PM
But Hurley was on the pier when it happened, right?
And no one said, "Oops, there blows the hatch."
juanbong
10-19-06, 05:32 PM
Merged this with another thread dealing with the Hurley/Desmond angle.
Thanks.
ILikeLostBrunettes
10-19-06, 05:32 PM
He was with Locke and Charlie before he talked to Des. It was just implied that they talked about it offscreen.
or 3) Hurley had been at the Pearl watching.
See below
But Hurley was on the pier when it happened, right?
And no one said, "Oops, there blows the hatch."
:yeah:
Yes, but that plot point is just too big for either of those explanations.
It just doesn't make sense!
perhaps it was a post production editing error. maybe he was suppose to say they funny line about the hatch blowing off his clothes after desmond mentions it imploded? Did Des mention that... can't remember.
Bottom line is. hurley was at the other end of the island, on the dock when the hatch went boom. It did not show him discuss the hatch with Locke or walk by the hatch - yet he mentions it blowing up before he's given the info. A plot clue- or a mistake? Your guess is as good as mine.
athywithak
10-19-06, 05:39 PM
Anyone else notice that Hurley says something about the hatch blowing desmonds cloths off before he knows that the hatch imploded.
:confused::confused::confused:
Have you checked out this one?:
http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26149
-K
redsoxgalbeme
10-19-06, 05:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by redsoxgalbeme http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/images/002/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1041588#post1041588)
or 3) Hurley had been at the Pearl watching.
See below
Quote:
Originally Posted by DreaminLost http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/images/002/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1041628#post1041628)
But Hurley was on the pier when it happened, right?
And no one said, "Oops, there blows the hatch."
If the 'explosion' took place when the noise and light occurred. And if the explosion (that they were led to believe happened) took place at all.
You're confused?
The whole night was confused. What happened? What was that?
RichardR
10-19-06, 05:49 PM
So confused! So if Desmond's weird precognition is due to some sort of psychic ability and not time travel/remote viewing, would this be anything at all like Walt's powers? Did something similar to a hatch implosion happen near Walt that made him able to know things, like about the hatch (don't open it) before he'd ever seen it?
My first thought was that there was some sort of telepathic connection between the main 3 people in the hatch when it detonated, and that Desmond hadn't "seen" the speech, but he knew Locke was planning to make one when he got to the beach because Locke unknowingly communicated this to him. And this connection affected Eko too and that's how he knew J/K/S were in danger. Or the same source of telepathic instructions told Locke to make a speech, and told Desmond he'd be making it. It would explain why the ep is called "Further Instructions."
I think the one big break through in understanding is that Locke now knows beyond a doubt he is able to communicate directly with the island. It is now clear all three, Locke, Desmond, and Eko, all can communicate with the island. Locke just clearly has a precise way of doing it.
Another important point was that Ben was seen as a "Baggage handler". Metaphorically of couse.
If the 'explosion' took place when the noise and light occurred. And if the explosion (that they were led to believe happened) took place at all.
If they are all really alive still, if there really is an island, if we are really normal people and not in a huge 'earth hatch' and the TV show is a part of a Dharma experiement to test us while watching a TV show about Dharma experiements.
You can play the "if" game all day man. Eventually you are gonna have to trust the show a little bit or you wont believe any answer they give you to any question. Sometimes the simple answer is the right one.
neese25
10-19-06, 05:51 PM
This is the way I saw it, and I've watched it three times in a row.
When Hurley left Jack and Charlie, Hurley asked where they were going, Charlie said that the island told Locke he has to save Eko and that a bear has got him.
When Hurley found Desmond nude, Hurley asked him if the hatch blew his clothes off, but it wasn't til later that Desmond told Hurley that the hatch imploded, then Desmond said "Locke's gonna go after them, he said so in his speech", Hurley replied "What, what speech? All he said was he was gonna save Eko and kill bears."
In Locke's speech he said that Jack, Kate, and Swayer were taken by the others, but he was gonna find them, They were gonna find them, and then we're gonna bring them home, but first thing first we gotta look after Mr Eko. All the while Desmond is throwing rocks into the ocean.
If that is too confusing I'll try to simplify it..................................
Hurley said something to Desmond, that he couldn't have known about but Desmond later confirmed.
Hurley was told something by Charlie, but Hurley thinks that Locke told him.
Desmond told Hurley something that Locke said, but hasn't actually said it yet, and he couldn't have heard it in the first place cause he was standing near the waves, throwing rocks, when Locke eventually did say it.
Ya got that?
I dont like WHAT i got from it...seems that Hurley is the center of it, or hurleys mind is creating it...
I asked in another thread, but no one has answered...TPTB discredited this theory, right? Its not in anyone/or all of their minds, right? I really hope that this isnt the case....
I was listening to the radio this morning, and one of the stations always does a post Lost show every Thursday, and someone called in and suggested that is was possible that Desmond died in the implosion, and thats why none of the other losties noticed him standing there throwing rocks, but Hurley.
I did not think about that until after I watched the scene again! He appeared to be non-existing. But then I asked why would Hurley see him, and I then I thought, he is probably the messenger. I don't know, just guessing.
Mentioned in MANY other threads going around and disproved by the preview of next weeks episode. "Meanwhile, Desmond's behavior begins to perplex the survivors when he starts construction on an unknown device."
chaos28
10-19-06, 05:59 PM
I was listening to the radio this morning, and one of the stations always does a post Lost show every Thursday, and someone called in and suggested that is was possible that Desmond died in the implosion, and thats why none of the other losties noticed him standing there throwing rocks, but Hurley.
I did not think about that until after I watched the scene again! He appeared to be non-existing. But then I asked why would Hurley see him, and I then I thought, he is probably the messenger. I don't know, just guessing.
While I do think this theory is possible (and there's certainly evidence to back it up - David anybody?), it doesn't explain how Locke saw Desmond running through the jungle early on. Locke tried to call to him, but couldn't, because of his voice.
Desmond told Hurley something that Locke said, but hasn't actually said it yet, and he couldn't have heard it in the first place cause he was standing near the waves, throwing rocks, when Locke eventually did say it.
If Desmond already knew what Locke was going to say, he probably had no big want to hear it again. This plays into my whole thing about Desmond suddenly being apathetic to his entire overall sittuation.
Erm Mabye it'll be an extra on DVD!
DreaminLost
10-19-06, 06:04 PM
I'm wondering if TPTB expected our reaction to this episode or if they're surprised.
I'm wondering if TPTB expected our reaction to this episode or if they're surprised.
I have realistic expectations about Lost. I don't go in with needs I want met. I just watch and enjoy and let them lead me where they want me to go. Everybody has an opinion of the new episodes. But if you can't sit back and enjoy them, then I'd consider it a waste of time.
Overall I am enjoying this season. And I don't judge the scripts just because one show is a little less exciting than the one beore it.
Can anyone explain to me why Hurley said he just had deja vu??? Isn't deja vu when you experience something you feel you experienced before??? I mean, if Desmond would have seen the speech, HE could say he's experiencing deja vu........ but Hurley wasn't.
ILikeLostBrunettes
10-19-06, 06:39 PM
He was commenting that, because it's what someone says when they experience an event that someone else mentioned before it happend.
chaos28
10-19-06, 06:42 PM
I think it'd be funny if the entire show was just an experiment to see how far the general masses will follow a "mystery" show without gaining answers. That'd piss you all off. Myself, I'd found it absolutely hilarious and it would probably launch Lost into my favorite T.V. of all time - just because J.J. had the balls to do that.
But that won't happen.
As for Hurley mentioning the hatch's implosion, some of you are making waaaaaaaaay to big a deal about this. It's a T.V. show. Not every single minute detail can be handled in the course of 44 minutes. You have to assume some stuff happens off camera (like Hurley probably getting the hatch information from Locke and Charlie... probably as a result of Hurley asking why they were going after Eko, and what happened to Eko).
Prof_Frink
10-19-06, 06:44 PM
Why are all my Threads being locked? They are directly related to lost and the sexuality of the characters. I don't get why this topic is taboo.
I think Desmond is not a figment of Hurley's imagination. There was physical contact between them and Hurley gave Des the shirt, which is big enough to cover Des' bits and pieces.
athywithak
10-19-06, 06:44 PM
I think its a sort of acceptance, not apathy - for Desmond, Charlie and maybe Hurley have accepted that weird stuff is just gonna happen there.
Unlocke Locke (post 64) finally said what I wanted to add: Desmond showed abilities of a psychic nature in Jack's flashback too. I think this is very important. (see also post 75 - he also painted the mural)
For the missing day: I think the Island healed them during that time, but Charlie wasn't very hurt and returned to camp earlier. I think they were just lying on the ground for a day.
re: post 40 - I think the Others miscalculated Locke's ability to lead, now that he is being manipulated by the Island again. They won't expect this.
I think folks are also missing this point: when Locke saw "Eko" tell him to save J/K/S it wasn't Eko having a vision or Eko knowing what was happening across the island - it was a havid Locke had, it was the Island talking, not Eko. (see post 56)
And as for the similarities between Locke as the new leader and Jack (post 50) - the show has always drawn parallels between them! Locke said, "don't tell me what I can't do" and so did Jack. Now, Locke said, "I can fix this" as we know Jack often has said. It's a key point of the show and I am so happy to see it back.
K
juanbong
10-19-06, 06:45 PM
Merged into the Hurley, Desmond, and Locke thread. Maybe all of this in one will help out.
Thanks.
neese25
10-19-06, 06:54 PM
I have realistic expectations about Lost. I don't go in with needs I want met. I just watch and enjoy and let them lead me where they want me to go. Everybody has an opinion of the new episodes. But if you can't sit back and enjoy them, then I'd consider it a waste of time.
Overall I am enjoying this season. And I don't judge the scripts just because one show is a little less exciting than the one beore it.
I agree 100% Still enjoying the ride!
louise71594
10-19-06, 07:04 PM
I totally agree:)
Watch and Enjoy a great show!! I definitely like the pace that it is moving in!
ISLANDLEA
10-19-06, 07:45 PM
Merged into the Hurley, Desmond, and Locke thread. Maybe all of this in one will help out.
Thanks.
hi, ok the merge stuff is just a bit confusing, ok?
now it's time for a bit of Lea's truth:
we, as fans, and Forum members have.........
NO FRIGGIN' IDEA WTF IS GOING ON in LOST series ...
ok? ........let's face it ...lea
sierratango
10-19-06, 07:59 PM
What about little Walts powers...in the begining he was this creepy kid. With something..re-appearing in visions to folks etc. What about his deal in all of this. Seen no play in that? Any thoughts on his deal in this scenerio:Hippy: ?
ISLANDLEA
10-19-06, 08:08 PM
none
Maybe, just maybe, Desmond has heard Locke make a speech on the missing day. The question is...
Who To?
Locke lost his voice. I believe the reason Locke lost his voice (as a plot point) was to make it impossible for Desmond to have heard an earlier speech from Locke.
The speech that Desmond was referring to was the one we heard at the end of the episode. Locke could not speak until after his vision. Desmond couldn't have heard him make a speech until after his vision.
Perhaps the implosion in the hatch was what gave Desmond his special power, thus perhaps Locke has a power of his own.
juanbong
10-19-06, 09:56 PM
hi, ok the merge stuff is just a bit confusing, ok?
I understand it can be confusing. It would not be so much if people would stop creating a new thread each time instead of actually reading already current topics.
Until then, merging happens....
sorry
[end threadjack/]
Back to the topic at hand...
hollywoodkids
10-19-06, 10:01 PM
now wait a second, Charlie said something to the lines of where have you been for the last day....I think that locke and desmonde have been corrupted by the others and planted with information to get them to bring everyone to the others which would explain the lost day after the implosion of the hatch....like locke said, I will take you all to get back our people....
much more feasible than time warping....haaha
Maybe the "Further Instructions" were visions planted by the island. Locke did say he had to "talk to the island". Perhaps the "missing day" was rest/healing/programming time. And part of Desmond's programming was knowing a bigger part of the whole picture, like Locke's speech.
Maybe Penelope is already helping Des.
jeever79
10-19-06, 10:05 PM
I don't think this has to do with special powers. It's probably a specific event, like Desmond ended up a few hours ahead.
DreaminLost
10-19-06, 10:35 PM
Question: If Desmond 'saw' the future...
Why wasn't he within listening distance when Locke actually made his speech in 'real time'? Instead, he was off throwing rocks.
So for him to have heard it in the future, he'd have needed to be standing there, listening to what Locke said.
Does this make sense, what I'm trying to say?
It doesn't make sense to me that Desmond had simply (although there's nothing simple about it) visited the future, because he wasn't even there to hear it when it actually happened.
:confused:
ryneclipses
10-19-06, 11:20 PM
he only said of knowing about locke's speech not about being there listening to Lock's speech. I understand what you are saying is that - he would have to be in the future at Locke's speech to know about it, but if he wasnt when we saw it, then how did he know - well Desmond could have just heard about it somehow? It could be a plot he has read about? who knows!thats up to the theories and speculation thread to talk about. My overall point is that Desmond knew about Locke's speech but didn't actually reveal anymore info about it.
*Saint*
10-20-06, 04:29 AM
Question: If Desmond 'saw' the future...
Why wasn't he within listening distance when Locke actually made his speech in 'real time'? Instead, he was off throwing rocks.
So for him to have heard it in the future, he'd have needed to be standing there, listening to what Locke said.
Does this make sense, what I'm trying to say?
It doesn't make sense to me that Desmond had simply (although there's nothing simple about it) visited the future, because he wasn't even there to hear it when it actually happened.
:confused:
I hope this doesn't sound silly, but I don't know what else to use as an analogy...
What if Desmond is encountering something like a "Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure" type thing? (*sigh* yes, I went there...don't remind me, ok??) Where he experienced it first hand, but something made him travel back to that same time and place when he met Hurley. Therefore, when the speech happens again, he's already heard, doesn't need to hear it again, and decides to throw rocks.
I have literally no clue. When I think of an ingenious idea, I discount it with the next thought that comes into my mind. This show is going to drive me nuts (but I'm loving every minute of it!! :))
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