+ The Stand and "Lost"

[Frogberto]

Has anyone see the interview with one of the writers on "Lost" where he says that they based the series, in part, on Stephen King's "The Stand"?

It's been a while since I've read the book, but take another look at the characters, and see if they resonate:

Stu Redman, the hard-headed Texan. (Sawyer? Jack?)

Fran Goldsmith, a pregnant Maine resident, who follows psychics and has increasingly intense dreams that she believes are clairevoyant. (Claire?)

Larry Underwood, a musician whose band just had their first hit single when the crisis hit. (Charlie, clearly).

Nick Andros, a kindly deaf-mute. (Jin? Hurley?)

Mother Abigail, the wise elderly black lady that becomes spiritual advisor to the group trying to be good. (Rose ... or Locke?)

Randall Flagg, the tough man that becomes leader of the "dark" forces. (Locke? Sayid? La Femme Frenchie?)

Lloyd Henried, a two-bit criminal who had just been arrested for a crime, and was about to be transferred for trial when the crisis hit, before being elevated to a position of power with the dark side's group. (Kate? Sawyer?)

Nadine Cross, the woman destined to bear Flagg's offspring. (Shannon? Claire?)

Glen Bateman, a retired man who seems happy, despite the crisis, who spends his time with a rare surviving dog as his only company. (Locke? Michael? ... and Vincent?)

Leo - A child Nadine and Larry meet on the way, who has an extraordinary way of looking right into people. (Walt?)

Donald Elbert - a pyromaniac that obtains a weapon for the dark side group to use. (Sayid?)

Anyone that might have read this book more recently have thoughts on how this may lead the story and plotlines further? Great show.

[Xander Power]

I read the book, and I watched the *8 hour* TV Movie Version on the SciFi channel when it came on.

It bears a striking resemblance, charatcer wise, but the story is quite lacking. In The Stand, it deals more with God vs. Lucifer. In fact, we meet the devil, as he takes over one of the characters (movie version: he WAS one of the main charaters all along), and he ends up empregnating one of the wemon on the show (Claire-ish woman).

Now, if you believe in the purgatory theory, then I can, slightly, see some similarities. But my personal belief towards the show does not bear that theory, therefor I don't think it's relevant. Although, many others think differently.


Wow - writing this just made me think of something... what if it was some sort of nuclear strike that brought the plane down, and that's why no one's looking for them.

Ha, I bet someone already though of that; but it's the first time I have.

[Chance Gardener]

An EMP was speculated early on, but I don't believe anyone has really run with it.

While that can explain the radio going out, the rest of the avionics were intact, as they kept flying (they turned because the radio went out if you'll recall) for at least an hour I believe before they were hit by turbulence.

While the shockwave from the blast could well damage the plane, I doubt it would still pack a punch one hour or more after the initial blast. It seemed from the flashbacks in the Pilot that the tail section sheared off from stress fractures.

These are a couple of the things that have most people convinced it was not a nuclear blast that did them in.

[draub]

In addition to what Chance said....what we've seen on the island indicates that it was not an EMP.

- Boone's cell phone worked (played sounds), it just couldn't pick up a signal.

- Hurley's discman works.

- The transiever works.

- Sayid was able to rig up 3 triangulation antennae out of salvaged electronics. Those appear to have worked.


EMP damage isn't a temporary thing. It shorts out the electronics systems and can even cause electronic devices to get so hot that they melt. It is possible that the transiever was "EMP hardened" (had built in protection against it, or was stored in such a way to protect it). However, the discman, the cell phone, and the variety of salvaged electronics likely weren't. It's expensive....thus most electronics aren't hardened.

[LostinTrinity]

I think Xander Power was speculating that a nuclear blast (attack) is why others haven't shown up (they're too busy from the fallout and such) and since they were so remote, they don't have the effects.

It would be an interesting twist. So now they are the only ones left...we'll they better get busy repopulating then.

[bsychld]

The correlation between Lost and the Stand struck me as pretty significant as well. There were two main themes going on in the Stand 1) the impending confrontation between good and evil and who will triumph and 2) would the select few survivors children (or more specifically in the book the pregnant ladies future child...(?Claire?)) be able to survive as well, thus the survival of the human race. We don't learn the answers to these until the VERY END of the 1000+ page book (8+ hour movie) and I have a feeling it will be the same wait for Lost. Also, in the Stand, if I remeber correctly, we never do learn what is so special about the survivors that makes them immune. Maybe we will never learn what's so special about the characters in Lost that made them able to survive the crash. I also wonder if the apocolyptic/end of the world theme that is the setting of the Stand is also in Lost. Just a few thoughts.

[cccourt]

Frog: LOST has reminded a lot of us of The Stand and other utopian novels. We have a thread on which you can vote which LOST character reminds you most of Randall Flagg.
ccc:hat

[altnerdobsessive]

After "Special" I'm starting to see the lines of a "The Stand"-like master narrative are starting to emerge. BTW, I'm not a personal fan of "The Stand" theory, but I believe I read an interview with one of the show's producers which suggested there would be a "Stand"-like element.

I'm not suggesting there will be a conflict with the castaways splitting into two groups, but rather a future conflict between them and the Others.

First of all, there's the big question of whether all the castaways are really unlucky victims of fate and happened to crash on a wacky mysterious island, or whether they're meant to be there for a reason. All the backstories seems to point to the latter, especially Kate's toy plane, "Raised by Another," and now the reveal that Walt had powers before he came to the island. I'm predicting now that the Big Reveal of the season finale will the revelation that they were all pre-selected to be there.

In "Raised by Another" we're told if Claire's baby is raised by another, it will result in huge danger. That suggests that, like Walt, Claire's baby is "special." Now it look likes the baby will be raised by Ethan and The Others.

So I see the future two camps in conflict as the Castaways led by super-powered Walt vs. the Others led by super-powered Baby.

Locke's role in this: earlier there was some hint of Locke factionalizing among the castaways, but lately he seems to be winning the trust all of his detractors (Michael last night). I don't think Locke is trying to set himself up a leader of a faction. Rather, he is aware of a coming conflict, and is trying to prepare everyone for it.

Black and White could play into this somehow. Maybe it's weird to racialize the black/white theme, but: one camp led by black super-child vs. another led by white super-baby. BTW there was another black/white reference last night: "What's black and white and red all over?"

[cajdb]

So, I've just finished re-reading The Stand... the uncut version... all 1141 pages of it

The other Stand threads are now locked, but you can find them here (http://p073.ezboard.com/flosttheunofficalforumfortheabcseriesfrm39.showMes sage?topicID=317.topic), here (http://p073.ezboard.com/flosttheunofficalforumfortheabcseriesfrm34.showMes sage?topicID=199.topic&index=1), and here. (http://p073.ezboard.com/flosttheunofficalforumfortheabcseriesfrm34.showMes sage?topicID=61.topic).

I'm a big fan of this novel (I think this is the fourth time I've reread it in its entirety) and when I heard that the writers of the show were fans I was very excited. I had a vague idea of some similarities I had seen in Lost, but was having a hard time remembering it in enough detail, so I decided to re-read with Lost in mind. This is what I came up with.


Summary of The Stand
Basic storyline for those who haven't read the novel. In a top-secret military base, scientists are working on Project Blue. Project Blue is biological warfare at its nastiest; the scientists are developing more virulent versions of common diseases and in particular a "shifting-antigen" version of the flu. This pumped up version of the flu, or the superflu as they call it, changes its structure (thus the "shifting antigens") so quickly that the body's immune system cannot defeat it. Somehow, the virus is accidentally released on the military base and the base goes on red alert. All the exits are supposed to lockdown but another mistake, a slight lag between the code red and the lockdown, allows one guard to escape. He grabs his wife and kid and takes off trying to outrun the virus but instead ends up spreading it. By the time the CDC and the rest of the government get involved it is too late, the superflu is spreading across America and keeps on spreading. The military starts out trying to erect a quarantine but soon switches to deep cover up mode, controlling the media by force and, once the situation is obviously out of control, killing a bunch of innocent people and arranging for the superflu to be released around the world.

In a regular novel, this would have been the whole plot, but this is Stephen King, so that storyline comprises only the first third of the novel. The superflu decimates the population, killing around 99%, but that other 1% survives. These survivors start seeking out other survivors and they also start
dreaming. Some dream of an elderly black woman, Mother Abagail, on a farm in Nebraska. Others dream of a dark man, Randall Flagg, wearing jeans and cowboy boots and prowling in the west. Most dream of both. King focuses on a handful of these survivors and recounts a good deal of backstory about each one, switching the point of view repeatedly. Most of the survivors initially deny the dreams, but once they realize they are all sharing the same two dreams, most of the characters begin to pick sides and make their way to either to Nebraska or the west. The old woman is described as good and kind and godly while the dark man is cold and horrifying. (I would like to note, though, that those who choose the dark man find the old woman horrifying, so while she is clearly good in the overall scheme of the novel she doesn't appear that way to everyone.) In this second portion of the novel, the characters choose sides.

The third section of the novel is an epic battle of good vs evil. The followers of Flagg form a community in Las Vegas and it is not a nice place. Flagg publicly crucifies anyone who displeases him and, since he can see into the minds of people, he knows if people even think about betraying him.
The followers of the Mother Abagail move to Boulder, CO and set up a community there called the Boulder Free Zone. This is a nicer place, but very unorganized. Flagg gets the power back on and starts to build up a military force while the Free Zone is still trying to form a government. A woman named Nadine Cross has visions that she is meant to be Randall Flagg's bride, but initially settles in the Boulder Free Zone. Mother Abagail almost sees Nadine for what she is, but can't make the connection. Consequently, Mother Abagail becomes convinced she has committed a sin and disappears into the wilderness to "get right with God." Nadine seduces another survivor named Harold Lauder and the two of them plot to kill a number of the central characters on the good side. The plot escalates from there with a number of subplots coming together in unexpected ways. At the end, Las Vegas is destroyed, but a number of the "good" characters have payed for this victory with their lives and Flagg, himself, has escaped.

How it Relates to Lost
Here are some similarities I saw between the Stand and Lost. I tried to read the book as a writer would... not looking for things to copy so much as looking for inspiration... this is what I noticed...

-The virus first escapes the military base via a guard. That guard infects a handful of people when his car crashes at a gas station. Those people infect a state trooper who stops at the station. The trooper infects everyone he talks to and so on and so on. The way King described the spread of the
plaque reminded me of the way everyone on Lost was connected. In a way, everyone that caught the superflu in America was caught in an enormous chain that connected back to the escaped guard in that "and they tell two people and they tell two people" kind of way. It is unlikely that all the Lost survivors are connected by a virus (not impossible, but unlikely) but this underlying idea of "connectedness" might have been inspired by the Stand.

-The Stand has two "explanations" or types of story arcs. The plague can be explained by science/pseudo science with a healthy dose of secret organizations and conspiracy theory thrown in. This is a very rational explanation. However, there is also a spiritual/metaphysical component to the Stand with the dreams and the epic battle. This combination is incredibly compelling and could have inspired some of the things we've already seen on Lost like the prophetic dreams/visions that Locke and Claire have both had. I could see the writers being inspired by this merging of hard science and the mysterious and unknown. If they can pull off both kinds of stories and intertwine them successfully, they'll be able to capture viewers from both camps.

With that being said, I think it unlikely that they will present a final solution that is as overtly religious as King's novel... after the first 380 some pages King's scientific storyline recedes and his mystical storyline takes over. I don't think they are going to do
this with Lost because :

1. they have pretty much said everything will be grounded in science/pseudo science
2. it would be too easy to get themselves in trouble/seriously offend many viewers with a this kind of show on network TV
3. They don't want to copy the Stand, even though they may be inspired by it.

Still, I think there is evidence that Lost is leaning in both these directions. There are a number of creative and exciting ways to combine these types of stories and I hope they keep pushing in both directions. If they do it right, it could mean a big payoff at the end, so I have my fingers crossed.

-One of the things that makes the survivors in The Stand so fascinating is their pre-flu backstories. Frannie's pregnant, Larry used to be a rock star and Nick has a pretty serious handicap.. sound familiar? These back stories are fleshed out so that the characters seem real with all the flaws and
issues that entails. Now, in a book, you have the luxury of rolling out backstories whenever you want to but you rarely have that luxury in a TV show...except in Lost, they do, because they have built in backstories as part of the format of the show. And, in the book, the backstories are told a little at a time, jumping from one character to another so your opinion of characters evolves over the course of the book.

-One major difference between Lost and the Stand is that in the Stand it is very easy to tell the good main characters from the bad main characters. There are two main characters on Flagg's side... one was a guy who went on a tri-state shooting spree and was on the fast track to the electric chair. When the flu hit this guy was stuck in prison and snacked on the dead guy in the next cell to stay alive. The other bad guy is a raving lunatic firebug that burned down a church. None of the main characters on Lost are that clearly evil. Ethan Rom could be, but we don't have enough info to know for sure and I have a funny feeling that even his story is not as simple as it seems.

Now, many of the minor characters on the bad side in the book seemed like regular guys and the reader never really finds out why *they* picked the dark man. This is the kind of question that would inspire me... what are those stories like? How does an average guy go bad? What lines can you cross and which lines can't you cross? I think that one of the ideas this show might revolve around is the viewers trying to decide who is good vs who is evil.

As I posted in the hatch vs. higher ground theory, I think we are already seeing evidence of this. Right now, Locke's motives are looking suspicious, but I have a feeling that this may change in upcoming episodes and Jack may begin to look more suspicious. I'm really hoping this is the way it goes because I think it would make the show really exciting and keep it from getting stuck in a typical good vs. evil/epic battle kind of storyline.

Little similarities that pleased me
-The Stand mentions Watership Down. Twice.

-The high ranking followers of the dark man all wear a black stone on a chain around their throat.

-Locke gets his legs back. The character Nick Andros who is deaf/mute dreams that if he follows the dark man he will be able to hear. (Nick doesn't take the dark man up on his offer...)

-one of the characters describes the Boulder Free Zone as a "cloned society, a tabula so rasa that it could not sense its own beauty" (my italics)

-it also mentions The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings (made me chuckle even though it is a connection to an actor, not a character.)


There is more, but I need to do some more thinking on some of it. And, just for the record, I don't think any of the characters we have met, yet, are equivalent to Randall Flagg. Flagg was pulling the strings on his side and I don't think any of the survivors we have met have that much control. Not even Locke. (I actually think Locke may be more like Harold Lauder than any other character, but haven't decided for sure, yet.)

Edited to fix crazy line breaks

[thoughtform]

This all fits in pretty well. My question is, on Lost, what is the situation that causes our scenario. Is it the plane crash or are we going to find out that some sort of apocalyptic event has taken place on the planet and our survivors are unaware of it? I know that the writers use many things as inspiration for this show. The list of tie ins to other stories is almost endless. I do think that when you are dealing with archetypal situations, you can find many things that sound the same. As humans our consciousness seems to be activated by these symbols. Any myth for any culture will have many similarities to another culture's myths. This is due to our shared humanity and the collective unconscious. Lost speaks to our collective unconscious exactly because they use universal symbolism. Good vs. evil, male/female etc.

[cajdb]

thoughtform wrote:

This all fits in pretty well. My question is, on Lost, what is the situation that causes our scenario.

Very good question and, unfortunately not one I have an answer for. But I do have ideas... :)

The plane crashed, but we still don't know why... was there an accident/government conspiracy like there was in the Stand? I'm a big fan of Pinnerman's Philadelphia Experiment theory (which I see has recently been retrieved from the depths) and it has just the sort of accident/coverup kind of qualities that are seen in the Stand.

Many of the posters on the original Stand threads seemed to think that any similarities to the Stand were the "kiss of death" for the show, guaranteeing that Lost will end up as nothing but a religious battle of good and evil. I think the opposite... I think the similarities support a broader and more interesting combination of science/conspiracy and the mysterious unknown. I don't think the writers want to retell King's story, merely borrow from it.

And I think it is telling that they have referenced dark and light in the show and not good and evil... We typically associate dark with bad and light with good, but these associations are essentially flawed. There is nothing inherently good or moral about light nor anything inherently bad about dark. Not that I am disagreeing with thoughtform's comment about the show using archetypal symbols... they are using those symbols but I am not sure they are using them the way we *expect* them to.

[lacenaire]

The pilot said "no one could see us"

That I think means 1 of this 2 possibilities:

1. The radar signature of the plane and/or the beacon of the nearest air control tower was blocked by something. The most likely in my opinion.

2. The radio tower had disappeared (global apocalypse).

[boonian androphile]

cajdb:

i agree with a connection between Stand and Lost in terms of the connectedness of the characters. i wonder if there is a mother abigail character which drew the Lost people to 815. or some specific force. also the dreams/vision (or flashback) motifs are similar. but i do think that the writers will go with a multipronged approach: science; religion; good vs evil (what's good and what's evil open to interpretation); political; sociological; literary; etc. i think that you are right that religion alone will not be the endgame; instead, they will bring all these aspects together to satisfy various viewer perspectives and they should. they should carry through to the end what they started. i myself though am rather leery about what representatives of the show say. they remind me of spinning politicians.

i like the character similarities that you point out: both frannie & claire pregnant; larry & charlie rock stars; nick & locke with disabilities. and i agree that we are seeing dark side jumpings. some say that that has happened to locke. and you talk about not knowing about the motivations of minor characters in Stand. well, dont we in Lost only catch a mere glimpse of locke's transition from insightful mystic helper to fearful obsessive bad decision maker? the trebuchet doesnt work and he cracks? something went on in his mind we were not privy to and everything continues as normal until his attempt to break through the hatch. what i like is that is how his fellow islanders would have seen his change in demeanor: abruptly; without warning. even boone missed most of the signs. if we had seen in locke's head the two weeks (?) that locke and boone used to dig around the hatch, we would have seen his motivations but be denied the mystery of them. i guess what i am saying is the writers (of any good story) want us to fill in the blanks. in locke's case, the interpretations are polar and deeply side-taking. that's what makes this show great.

locke as harold lauder? that's possible. i think that locke was duped into his actions but will be blamed (because information is lacking) or will blame himself (lauder committed suicide) for boone's death. although i wonder if locke will end up as cain, in perpetual exile. waiting to see. if april would just kick ahead.

[MoreLikeHurleyThanYou]

2. The radio tower had disappeared (global apocalypse).

This doesn't seem logical to me, because how would he know that they couldn't be seen?

[east928]

I have never read a Steven King novel in my life, but I am compelled to read THE STAND...this is so interesting! I can also see how they could drag out LOST over many seasons by borrowing some of these subplots...keep this thread up high!

[lachme]

well, as long as we are comparing stephen king's work to lost-

anyone else read the tommyknockers? because locke's gradual melt-down since discovery of the hatch and his attempts to open it remind me very much that book. locke is like bobbi in her discovery of the alien ship, her attempts to dig it up, her secrecy about it, and the way the ship gradually changes her. we know now that there is something down there-- i hate the thought of aliens (geez- not that) but still.......it could be an interesting thought-line to explore.

[susie1967]

Hey Lachme, didn't Bobbi's friend who came to stay with her
die while she was digging? Was he helping her, or just staying
at her house?

Hmmm. He helps Bobbi, he dies. Boone helps Locke, he dies.

[Chance Gardener]

Well, kinda Susie. He has a plate in his head, so for some reason, the ship doesn't affect him all that much. He does help her by piloting the ship out for her, but Bobbi dies.

The book ends with him dying, giving the ship one last command as the scene ends.

[Amberite]

Interesting theory all around. I also love the stand, its actually my favorite book.

I really like your connection between characters in the story to characters in Lost. The more I think about it, the more it makes sense. However, I think I would change around your connections a little bit:

Jack : Stu Redman - Pretty obvious here for me. Stu was exactly like Jack, he didn't want to be a leader, but it was thrust upon him. Very quiet, reserved.

Claire : Frannie Goldsmith - Frannie is pregnant in the book. Ends up with Stu.

Kate : Nadine Cross - Kate is fence sitting almost. She seems good, but she also has a questionable past, and also has something with Sawyer.

Locke : Randall Flagg - I'm sorry. But I just see it this way.

Jin : Nick Andros - You said Nick is probably Locke because of the disability. However, I think you missed the fact that Nick cant hear or speak - exactly the problems Jin is having (because of language barrier)

Charlie : Larry Underwood - Obvious rock star connection here. Also, if my memory serves me correctly, I think Larry liked Frannie (there was a love triangle between Larry, Frannie, and Stu). If Jack starts to like Claire, this could be a perfect connection.

Sayid : Glen Bateman - I think this is the character I'm thinking about. Had a very good way of thinking of things, was very insightful and patient.

[cajdb]

lacenaire, I don't feel like I have enough info to comment on what happened to the plane, though I do have to say that would be a heck of a series finale... they finally get off the island after seven seasons (or whatever they do) and find an empty world. Creepy. If that is true, I expect we won't know for a *long* time.

boonian androphile wrote

mother abigail character which drew the Lost people to 815. or some specific force

Some people have pointed to Rose as a possible Mother Abagail figure, and I can see where they are coming from, but I don't necessarily agree. (She's even been "missing" from the last few episodes but from what I understand that is because the actress that plays Rose is in a stage play and is unavailable). I don't think, from what we've seen of her, she is strong enough or ornery enough to parallel Mother Abagail. Plus, since I think Lost is going to take a different, less religious route I don't think it needs an Abagail or a Flagg. I think the plain old human people can get themselves into enough trouble by themselves. However, I am very intrigued by your idea of a "specific force" drawing them to the plane... There is a good deal of speculation about this on other threads... I am really hoping there is a *reason* they are all on this plane be it a conspiracy or a force on the island.

myself though am rather leery about what representatives of the show say. they remind me of spinning politicians

I totally agree! I love this show, and I wouldn't want them to totally spill the beans, but half the time I can't understand *what* they are saying :) Part of me wants to say "throw me a bone here" but the other part of me is glad. I think if they give away too much people will stop watching (I won't, but some people might and I *so* don't want this show to be canceled after a couple of seasons.)

east928, I think the Stand is an awesome book, especially if you like post-apocalyptic fiction (which I do :) ) However it is *really* long and moves slowly. King weaves this incredibly detailed mess of plotlines that seem to have no point but they all come together in the end. If you have the patience and stamina, I think it is well worth it.

lachme, I have read TommyKnockers and I think there is a definite parallel there, with the way the hatch is all dug up. (Makes you think, sometimes when things are buried they should *stay* buried. :) ) The hatch, itself, doesn't look very flight-worthy to me... it looks too heavy and shaped wrong. I'm placing my bets on a bunker of some sorts, but I could be wrong. I'm really hoping they don't go the alien route here, but that is totally a personal preference... Hopefully we'll get a glimpse into that hatch this season!

Here (http://p073.ezboard.com/flosttheunofficalforumfortheabcseriesfrm39.showMes sage?topicID=105.topic) is a link to the TommyKnockers thread referenced on the literary allusions page.

(This post is getting too long, will discuss characters in the next post.)

Edited to add link.

[cajdb]

I'm still working on a post about the characters, but in the meantime, I found this interview that directly mentions the Stand. (Not a whole lot of info, but some.) I'd like to gather all the direct quotes about the Stand in this thread, but this is the only one I have found so far.

This was an interview that happened before the show, so I don't really consider it a spoiler, but I am going to post it as possibly spoilerish because I understand some people don't like to read any of the interviews and it is always better to be safe than sorry :) . So, if you don't like to read interviews, please don't scroll down.










*****possibly SPOILERish*****










Thanks to Hodgepodge who posted a link to this interview on another thread.

Here (http://solitaryphoenix.com/Lost_News_100604.html) is a link to the entire interview posted on http://solitaryphoenix.com/Lost_News_100604.html



(begin quote from article)
The following comprises an email interview conducted with Lost co-creator Damon Lindelof, who wrote tonight's installment [Tabula Rasa, originally aired 10/6/04]. Coaxial News originally posted it way back on Aug. 21.

(info not about the Stand omitted)

AICN:
Will the survivors divide up into “good” and “evil” factions, as the survivors did in Stephen King’s “The Stand”?

DL:
Love that you referenced "The Stand" -- whenever I mention Mother Abigail or Randy Flagg, Nebraska vs. Vegas and superflus, I have to explain myself. For the record, it's my favorite King book other than the Dark Tower series. In fact, you may have noticed the character of Charlie (Dom Monaghan, the rockstar one-hit wonder) is an homage to Larry Underwood. So will they divide up? Absolutely. But not necessarily into teams of "good" and "evil." I'll say this -- it takes a little while to figure out who falls into which of those categories... and once someone's defined as "good," it doesn't mean they'll STAY that way (see: Skywalker, Anakin).

AICN:
I see lots of “The Stand” in Lost. There’s a fair amount of Stu and Frannie in Jack and Kate. Shannon could easily evolve into Nadine Cross. I get a real Flagg-y vibe from Terry O’Quinn’s character (hopefully this isn’t misdirection). Daniel Dae Kim’s character, with his communication difficulties, is kinda like Nick Andros. But Hurley is funnier than Tom Cullen.

DL:
Glad to see you're as big a fan of "The Stand" as I am. We're not misdirecting you on Terry O' Quinn's Flagg-esque (Walter in some worlds) qualities... but hopefully he's got some big surprises in store for everyone.

(end quote)

Edited to fix formatting

[cccourt]

All right...when there is this much info, you just can't reply to everything/everyone's posts. But I want to.

cajdb: THANK YOU! The synopsis is very well written. I read original when it was published. Reread a couple of times that decade. When the uncut version came out, I bought it..tried to read it. Finally gave up. Bottom line, I have not reread The Stand in decades. Your synopsis reminds me of so much stuff I had forgotten. For instance, I thought Flagg's group ended up in Kansas. That is what you get for watching reruns of Wizard of Oz every year and not rereading the Stand every year.

Though I have read The Stand threads, and enjoyed plugging LOST characters into Stand characters, it was never brought more to actuality as your account and the subsequent discussions /posts have.

Nothing is new. The fact that writers and producers are influenced by early experiences in literature does not mean they are lifting or plagarizing. Their ideas are sparked by what they know and what they have read. The rest is "their" stuff. I don't have a problem with that.

I don't recall any references to Watership Down...and really thought they had been published about the same time. Long time since I read Watership Down too.

This is an awesome thread. This is a great site...and the members/posters here are the best in the world. Bottom Line: It is likely that what you guys figure out is more than the writers/producers realize about their work on LOST. You are doing "writing psychoanalysis." Ha, ha.

ccc

[boonian androphile]

cajdb:

the more I think about the idea of the plain old human people getting themselves into trouble the more I agree. although I wouldnt be surprised if some force did bring them together, even if it was something as intangible as fate or bad luck (the Hurley connection?)or as I half jokingly stated elsewhere, agents of the island, the monster, etc. In Stand people were brought together by dreams and a certain destination point. And that crazy crow showing up everywhere. Vincent? On the island the common thread is that of unpleasant memories of obsession. Similar to dreams? And dreams themselves have occurred with unpleasant perceptual and realized outcomes. As for the writers et al, they can just stay out of things and let the work speak for itself. Similar to that, I read the diary and found it contrived. Fine, discover it later, as one did on OZ (Harold Perrineau connection). But I will say that the one part I did like was the disclosure that this person tripped over the brutally murdered Steve, or Scott, I sadly forget. Overall I enjoyed the book Stand and look for further comparative analysis.

[cajdb]

cccourt wrote:
You are doing "writing psychoanalysis." Ha, ha

Thank you cccourt, your post made me feel all warm and fuzzy. I know you were kind of joking when you mentioned "writing psychoanalysis" but that really does capture what I am trying to do here... I just couldn't come up with a way to describe it :) I don't have the scientific/mathematical skill set that some of the theorists here have (I admit, I still use my fingers to add), but since I am working on an MFA in writing I do have a good deal of knowledge about the craft of writing and I am trying to use what I know to figure out what the writers are doing. So, yeah, "writing psychoanalysis," I like it!

Amberite wrote
Locke : Randall Flagg - I'm sorry. But I just see it this way.Jin : Nick Andros - You said Nick is probably Locke because of the disability. However, I think you missed the fact that Nick cant hear or speak - exactly the problems Jin is having (because of language barrier)

You don't have to apologize to me. You are totally entitled to your opinion. Locke just doesn't seem anywhere near bad enough to be Flagg. Even if he had shot Boone in the head he would be bad, but not that bad. Flagg, when his mojo is really going, can drive people mad just by looking at them and he has people crucified for minor infractions. Plus, Flagg has almost no back story, he doesn't have the all so human betrayal in his past that Locke has. But, we will see and I may have to eat my words later on :)

I totally agree that Jin's inability to communicate is much like Nick's. The rest of his story, what little of it we have, doesn't jive, though. At least not yet. It would help to know if Jin ever killed anyone and if so under what circumstances.

Which brings me to my theory about the characters. It is fun and interesting to look for parallels between the characters in the Stand and Lost and there are some characters that seem to be roughly based on characters in the Stand, but I'm not sure that there is a one-to-one connection for all 14.

Instead of simply copying the characters, if you go with the "inspired by" idea I proposed in my original post, it would make sense that the writers pulled out the character traits they thought were most interesting and worked from there. Plus, I know that the writers divided up the characters and different people worked on the back stories for different characters. Maybe some of the writers were influenced by the Stand and some weren't?? (I am going to have to do some research into who wrote which back stories.)

There is no denying that we have a washed up rock star, a pregnant woman and a man with a disability but even those characters aren't a complete match. Nick Andros, the deaf/mute in the Stand, was offered his hearing but he turned it down because he didn't like the price. Did Locke have the opportunity to turn down his "miracle?" We don't know, but he is clearly incredibly frightened by the prospect of losing his ability to walk, again. I wonder where his desperation will lead him... which is why I wonder if he is anything like Harold Lauder whose desperation led him to a bad, bad place. (Plus there is the whole bit with Helen the phone sex operator which is creepy and reminds me of Lauder's delusions about Frannie. In the book the love triangle was between Stu, Frannie and Harold--not Larry Underwood as mentioned in a previous post though I don't remember if they condensed characters in the mini-series which might be causing the confusion.)

One of the larger story arcs in the Stand deals with the survivors developing a "government" and I am interested in how this process of restarting society could play out on the island. Does anyone have any ideas? It seems too soon for the castaways to be "electing" leaders... but determining Locke's role in Boone's death is going to be interesting and could start them thinking about how they want to organize. For example... who gets to determine whether Locke was responsible and if somehow they decide Locke is to blame what do they do with him? How do you "keep the peace" without judges and juries and a police force? Any thoughts?

[cajdb]

Since the new ep is on tonight, I was wondering if anyone had any speculation about how the group will decide if Locke should be held responsible for Boone's death?

As I mentioned above, I think this might be the incident that causes them to think about needing some type of "law and order"

Any thoughts? (They don't have to relate directly to the Stand.)

[cajdb]

So much for my last post. The "sides" episode didn't get into forming a society... which I guess isn't too surprising since they haven't been stranded for that long yet... this kind of storyline may have to wait until their hope of rescue fades.

I did a little more research and found out that Locke, Sawyer and Sun's backstories are written by Paul Dini. He mentions this in an old (Nov. 2004) interview that you can access

here (http://www.darkhorizons.com/news04/041109d.php)

What I would really like to know is who wrote the backstories for the other characters. Does anyone know?

[boonian androphile]

not only their hope for rescue fades, but how they handle their enemies and how many leaders emerge in the wake.

cant help you with the other stuff.

[cajdb]

I thought this was lost and gone forever... I can't believe it is here! I :heartpump vb's search engine!

Now, the question is, is it still applicable? Hmm... I might have to chew on this one for a bit.

Any bites?

[theshape]

I posted this in another thread, but i think it ought to have its own thread.

In the ABC Lost podcast, when Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse are asked about their influences, one of the people they say is a huge influence is Stephen King. In fact they actually say jokingly:

Damon: "We've basically stolen The Stand [one of his books] and put it on an island. The shout out is for not sueing us, essentially."

Carlton: "Stephen, thank you, for not... sending a lawsuit our way"

Damon: "We appreciate it."

I stress that this was said jokingly, but i do think that they said a helluva lot more than they meant to. In fact if you've read that book, or a summary of it, it ties in strongly to Lost and i think tells us the whole basic plot of the show.

This is what is said about the book on the Stephen King website:


Synopsis:
One man escapes from a biological weapon facility after an accident, carrying with him the deadly virus known as Captain Tripps, a rapidly mutating flu that - in the ensuing weeks - wipes out most of the world's population. In the aftermath, survivors choose between following an elderly black woman to Boulder or the dark man, Randall Flagg, who has set up his command post in Las Vegas. The two factions prepare for a confrontation between the forces of good and evil.

From the flap:
This is the way the world ends: with a nanosecond of computer error in a Defense Department laboratory and a million casual contacts that form the links in a chain letter of death. And here is the bleak new world of the day after: a world stripped of its institutions and emptied of 99 percent of its people. A world in which a handful of panicky survivors choose sides-or are chosen. A world in which good rides on the frail shoulders of the 108-year-old Mother Abagail-and the worst nightmares of evil are embodied in a man with a lethal smile and unspeakable powers: Randall Flagg, the dark man. In 1978 Stephen King published The Stand, the novel that is now considered one of his finest works. But as it was first published, The Stand was incomplete, since more than 150,000 words had been cut from the original manuscript. Now Stephen King's apocalyptic vision of a world blasted by plague and embroiled in an elemental struggle between good and evil has been restored to its entirety. The Stand: The Complete & Uncut Edition includes more than 500 pages of material deleted, along with new material that King added as he reworked the manuscript for a new generation. It gives us new characters and endows familiar ones with new depths. It has a new beginning and a new ending. What emerges is a gripping work with the scope and moral complexity of a true epic. For the hundreds of thousands of fans who read The Stand in its original version and wanted more, this new edition is Stephen King's gift.. And those who are reading The Stand for the first time will discover a triumphant and eerily plausible work of the imagination that takes on the issues that will determine our survival.


Sounds very familiar to me. It would tie in with the idea of "the incident", the deadly virus Rousseau speaks of, the importance of the computer, and Kelvin's comment to Desmond about "saving the world". I think the two main characters spoken of in the synopsis: the "elderly black woman" and "the dark man, Randall Flagg" may also be connections to Jack and Locke, who are obviously two men with very different views of the world, and the two main leaders. Also, if you have time you could read this commentary written by someone about the connections between Stephen King's books and Lost:

http://www.lostcasts.com/2005/12/stephen_king_an.html#more

[Mystic-Flame]

It has been confirmed that PARTS of lost are based on The Stand. Yet the outcomes and major events are not the same

[camelsmoker]

Hey theshape, "The Stand" is one of my all time favorite novels, very character driven (like Lost). And yes, there are a lot of similarities. Check out this interesting thread (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7364). I'm sure you'll find it engaging.
Peace

[trashcan_man]

Okay, this isn't really a theory, but I've just read The Stand by Stephen King and it reminded of me of "Lost" quite a bit. I'm not going to go into it here, because there have been many threads on it already (here's the one I've seen: * http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=40 (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=40) *I actually couldn't load the page right now -keep getting web site not responding- but that'll take you to where you can get to it). This is my first time posting and I hope I go about it right. If I am, tell me, okay. I feel sort of guilty about this really, seeing I couldn't find a worthy area to post this in that made a snot bit of sense. I had no choice if I actually wanted to see my idea on the web than create a whole new thread.

The more I've watched "Lost" this season, the more I'm seeing parallels to the book above (either that or I'm imagining them). I see a battle between good and evil in the future where the island will be separated into two different groups, much like The Stand. Not to go to deep into it, the book focuses on the "good" people being led to Boulder, Colorado after a *cough* thinning out of the world population by 99% by a disease created by the U.S. military. Meanwhile, a another group of "bad" people settle in Las Vegas. Each side has its leader: The Boulderites have Mother Abigail (a 108 year-old black woman), and the Las Vegas folks have Randall Flagg, the apparent imp of Satan. But could our castaways be formed into groups so clearly evil or good? Probably no. But this is what would make it fascinating to behold. If a person is led to evil, are they entirely evil or can they be redeemed?

Who would lead each side? Last season this question wasn't as obvious as it is now. I mean, you could really tell something was up with Locke from the beginning. At the end of episode 3, the very last moment, we get a close up of Locke's face and this incredibly foreboding music plays. Going on, the moment that creeped me out the most in the Walkabout episode was when we see Locke's face when he drags in the boar: it's covered in blood and this gruesomely proud grin comes on his face. Locke is definitely covered in a layer of slime. No matter how kind he is, he's swimming in filth. Is he really this kind even? It makes me think he's not. In a scene from The Stand, Dayna, a spy from Boulder in Las Vegas, is almost led to believe that Flagg is actually a fare man. Flagg, on the other hand, is just using her to find the third spy still hidden in Las Vegas. He never plans to let her leave, and when Dayna discovers this she kills herself before Flagg can kill her. What if Locke is just doing the same thing? Being kind so he can get people to believe he's a good guy. I can see Locke in the future being a violent unforgiving leader.

Who would lead the good side? Mr. Eko of course, of course. The Others even labeled him a "good guy". Mr. Eko is a good guy who redeemed himself. He isn't looking for something like Locke, he is just trying to redeem himself.

What about the rest of the castaways? Where would they go? With Eko, well you know Jack would. For those who've read The Stand, he reminds me of Stu Redman. Hurley will go with Jack, because he follows Jack where ever (he followed him to the caves, remember). Betcha Charley will too. He's feels to me like a Larry Underwood type (and I believe one of the makers of Lost even said Charley could be considered a homage to Larry). He's a good guy down deep, but he is definitely a conflicted person.

Here's where things start to get juicy though. What about our question marks ??? Sawyer and Kate ??? I just want to take this opportunity to say Sawyer is the best character on television right now, hands down. That being said, the character he most reminds me of in The Stand might surprise some people. It's not Loyd, it's Harold Lauder. For the uninitiated, Harold is big geek (a loser really) who has been picked on his entire life. He is fat and has bad acne. His father was horrified by him and even asked him if he was a "queer boy". He has a huge inferiority complex where he takes everyone too seriously. No one really likes him. However, the thing that most reminds me of Harold in Sawyer, is that he loves the girl. In Sawyer's case, the girl really doesn't want him (at least at first), yet he pines for her. Both of them are downtrodden and in love. However, we know what happens to Harold. He is misled by The Walkin' Dude (Randall Flagg) to blow up one of the leaders in Boulder with a bomb. He tries to escape, and Flagg cripples him before he can get to Vegas. He puts a gun in his mouth and kills himself.

Which leads us back to Sawyer. What will happen to him when Kate is forced to choose between Jack and himself? What will he do when she chooses Jack (you know she will)? He might turn against the "good side" and end up doing the very same thing Harold did. There is dyn-o-might on the island. That would be some good drama.

I love this kind of crap I tell you. I love speculating.

I gotta guess who would join the evil side before I quit though. It's getting late up here in good ol' Montana. Wouldn't it be cool to see Sayid as the lieutenant of Locke. Michael looked kind of evil last episode with the gun in his hand too. I'm thinking he could be like Trashcan Man; the artillery master. Claire could be like Nadine maybe? Locke seams to like her. Rose and Bernard are totally evil as well. No one can tell me they don't have a fishy past, bet they're serial killers on the run from the law. Call me crazy, but Ana-Lucia will be good, and so will Jin and Sun.

Anyway, goodnight world, I'm going to bed.

[stinkytojo]

First, Love your screen name! Bumpty-bumpty-bump! And, I really like your train of thought. I totally agree with what you said about Locke. And he knows what he's doing, too. There was a scene last season where Boone said something, I don't remember what, about Sayid, and Locke said something to the effect of "We're gonna want him on our side." Our side? I've been thinking he would end up in charge of one side of an eventual split ever since then.

[trashcan_man]

"Ci-a-bola, Ci-a-bola, bumm-ty, bump-ty, bump!"
Thanks, Trashcan Man is one of my favorite characters from The Stand. I also love Larry Underwood, Loyd Henreid, Harold Lauder, and Glen Bateman.

quote by stinkytojo
"There was a scene last season where Boone said something, I don't remember what, about Sayid, and Locke said something to the effect of "We're gonna want him on our side." Our side?"

That's where I got the idea for Sayid too, come to think of it. Plus, I just loved the image of Sayid as Locke's right hand man.

[trashcan_man]

Oh yeah, can't forget Tom Cullen. M-O-O-N, that spells Tom Cullen.

[LostInWilderness]

I just merged 5 "The Stand" theories. That makes this the de facto official "The Stand" theory.

[yung23]

and seeing most of the cast were nearly required to read it....

hmm

[RunLoganRun]

Locke definitely is trying to be everyone's buddy - he likes doing favors for others - but, he surely has a hidden agenda. I have always seen him as a Jim Jones type cult leader. My thoughts from last year still ring true to me.


My thoughts from Feb. 05 in another thread :

Well, remember when cults attempt to recruit new members, they always are extremely friendly/helpful to people - they always go after misfits - and we have a bunch of them on this island. The 'Cult of the Mind's Eye' is born... let the brainwashing begin.

[trashcan_man]

"He looks like anybody you see on the street. But when he grins, birds fall dead off telephone lines. When he looks at you a certain way, your prostate goes bad and your urine burns. The grass yellows up and dies where he spits. He's always outside. He came out of time. He doesn't know himself. He has the name of a thousand demons. Jesus knocked him into a herd of pigs once. His name is Legion. He's afraid of us. We're inside. He knows magic. He can call the wolves and live in the crows. He's the king of nowhere. But he's afraid of us. He's afraid of . . . inside."

John Locke?

[holland4]

i may be wrong, but in the book flagg takes advanted of the plaugue to meet his own needs. i see locke as seeing the situation as it is and going from there. the things that he has done are shady (knocking out sayid, boone was a sacrifice) but i dont see how he is meeting his own needs quite yet. to me, kate is still the biggest sociopath, larger then any of the other murderers, thieves, and druggies on the island. im pretty sure that kate and locke will end up on different sides, but neither are actually evil. even in the stand, there were bad people in the good camp (outside of harold and nadine) and good people in the bad camp.

[rosalind711]

I thought the writers said some character was supposed to be like Randall Flag. Can not remember which one. Does anyone else remember this?

[trashcan_man]

i may be wrong, but in the book flagg takes advanted of the plaugue to meet his own needs. i see locke as seeing the situation as it is and going from there. the things that he has done are shady (knocking out sayid, boone was a sacrifice) but i dont see how he is meeting his own needs quite yet. to me, kate is still the biggest sociopath, larger then any of the other murderers, thieves, and druggies on the island. im pretty sure that kate and locke will end up on different sides, but neither are actually evil. even in the stand, there were bad people in the good camp (outside of harold and nadine) and good people in the bad camp.

I don't think John Locke is purely evil like Randall Flagg, per se. He just seams like a great fit for the leader of one of the sides; the evil side.

Another thing too, in The Stand, I don't think Loyd Henreid or Trashcan Man were completely evil either, even though they were with Flagg in Vegas. In fact, to them the people in Boulder were evil, it's just how you look at it really.

[kev7161]

Well, am I the ONLY true Stephen King fan here? Let me give you the lowdown on one Mr. Randall Flagg (also known as the Dark Man, The Black Man, and The Walking Dude and more):

1. Flagg belongs to several dimensions (as well as a few of King's novels). He can "shift" from one reality to another as we see him in the Dark Tower series (one of the major opponents of the Gunslinger), Eye of the Dragon, and The Talisman (where the major character - a boy {named Jack? Can't remember right now} - can "flip" from one Earth to a parallel Earth that has some similarities and a lot of major differences. Also, both Earths share characters that are the same - - yet not the same), in addition to The Stand. As a matter of fact, when he is not around in The Stand, I assumed it was because he was in a parallel universe doing his business there. Flagg can shape shift (most notably as a raven) but his powers of perception seem to be more limited when in animal form.

2. Anyone ever read King's novella The Langoliers? In this one, a passenger plane passes through a portal into another dimension that is so much like "our" Earth, but eerie and quiet and muted. The only passengers that survived the shift were the ones that were sleeping. Anyone awake didn't make it through (but anything metal in their bodies did!). It's been awhile since I've read this one so details are fuzzy, but it's a good read and ties in with this thread a bit.

3. The Earth of The Stand is visited by the travelers in The Dark Tower series (don't remember which one - Wizards and Glass, maybe). As a matter of fact, my home town of Topeka, Kansas is prominently featured here!

All the other stuff about character similarities and plot threads have been discussed pretty thoroughly, so I thought I'd just put some of these tidbits here for you to enjoy. I started reading King's books from Day One with "Carrie" back in the mid-seventies and have never missed a one. Lost is VERY Stephen King-ish!

[GrahamK]

The Stand is probably my favourite novel and I have read it many, many times.

Lost is probably my favourite TV show.

But I do not think the links between the two are as clear as many people here are suggesting. The only similarity is in tone and and basic set-up.

Both feature small groups of strangers thrown together after a cataclysmic event and forced to face the future together.

Both have a large cast of characters with complex back-stories that motivate their actions when faced with choices. (e.g. Traschcan Man's need for a friend drives him to Flagg, but his paranoia leads him to blow up the Vegas airfield / Locke's need to be a hero prompts him to help others whenever hunting or tracking is require, but his fear of losing control means he keeps the hatch a closely guarded secret).

Both feature mysterious goings-on that the characters are unable to explain rationally. (e.g. the dreams / the smoke monster)

Trying to identify individual character similarities is a pointless exercise - Jack is not Stu; Kate is not Fran; Charlie is not Larry; Hurley is not Tom; Jin is not Nick. They are all human characters and, as such, share some of the same characteristics, but they are not based on each other. (NB - TPTB saying Charlie is a homage to Larry Underwood is not the same as saying he's based on him)

Finally - if the narrative was based on The Stand then surely the tailenders would have stayed where they were and set up a rival colony provoking a conflict between the two...

[camelsmoker]

^ Finally someone with some sense has posted on this thread.

GrahamK, your nota bene summed up nicely the problem I have with much of the discussion on this thread. Bravo for having the b***s to say it.

Writers are human, and as such are influenced by past experiences. But saying that a writer has based his/her character on another fictional character is at best a simplification, and at worst utterly ridiculous.

Futhermore, claiming that Lost is based on the Stand is equally ridiculous.

Homage, yes. Basis for, no.

[trashcan_man]

The Stand is probably my favourite novel and I have read it many, many times.

Lost is probably my favourite TV show.

But I do not think the links between the two are as clear as many people here are suggesting. The only similarity is in tone and and basic set-up.

Both feature small groups of strangers thrown together after a cataclysmic event and forced to face the future together.

Both have a large cast of characters with complex back-stories that motivate their actions when faced with choices. (e.g. Traschcan Man's need for a friend drives him to Flagg, but his paranoia leads him to blow up the Vegas airfield / Locke's need to be a hero prompts him to help others whenever hunting or tracking is require, but his fear of losing control means he keeps the hatch a closely guarded secret).

Both feature mysterious goings-on that the characters are unable to explain rationally. (e.g. the dreams / the smoke monster)

Trying to identify individual character similarities is a pointless exercise - Jack is not Stu; Kate is not Fran; Charlie is not Larry; Hurley is not Tom; Jin is not Nick. They are all human characters and, as such, share some of the same characteristics, but they are not based on each other. (NB - TPTB saying Charlie is a homage to Larry Underwood is not the same as saying he's based on him)

Finally - if the narrative was based on The Stand then surely the tailenders would have stayed where they were and set up a rival colony provoking a conflict between the two...


I don't think anyone here has suggested that the two are indentical. Some may have tried to tie similarities between characters, which I admit it is pretty pointless myself having done it. I think what I'm getting at here is that we're not saying Larry and Charlie are identical, just that they may act similar ways because of their similarities. On the other hand, some characters in The Stand (such as Tom Cullen, Loyd, Trashcan Man, Nick, Frannie) have really no equal in "Lost". Likewise in "Lost", their is no equals in The Stand to Kate, Jin and Sun, Ana-Lucia, and Rose and Bernard, etc.

At least what I was trying to say (sorry for using that phrase twice!) when I made my particular thread was the battle between good and evil. And God does The Stand have a good example of this. It seamed like to me at least that "Lost" may headed in this direction. Where there is two sides and there is a split. In fact, I even think the show implies it itself.

[trashcan_man]

Wow, "Fire + Water" really confirmed my belief on John Locke. I believe he is preparing for a final conflict. Between who though? Mr. Friendly? Jack? Eko? I also find it suspicious he doesn't want Aaron to be baptized. I think he may want to make Claire his woman in the future too. Maybe he thinks she is also his destiny. I mean Locke has been taking a interest in Claire and her baby for a while now. The crib for instance.

Locke is the devil's imp.

[Greatsageandeminentjunkie]

:basically my name obligates me to post here:

I do agree that Lost is heavily influenced by Stephen King in general. In the DT series the same numbers popped up a lot, but they didn't really have any specific meaning (which TPTB have pretty much told us is the same deal with 108/4, 8...etc.) Charlie is Larry Underwood personified. Locke is just as annoying as Mother Abigail whats-her-<snip>. The recurring good versus evil, black/white themes are all very similar. Stephen King took a lot of flak while writing the DT series because he was slow with the answers, and TPTB seem to share his "all about the journey" philosophy. Now we just have to pray that if Lost does have something in common with The Stand (or the Dark Tower, for that matter), it isn't a terrible ending.

The island needs an Oy. Vincent isn't cutting it.

Edited for language. -TPTP

[cajdb]

trashcan_man said
Wouldn't it be cool to see Sayid as the lieutenant of Locke.

Almost nothing on this show is ever what seems, but it was quite chilling to see Sayid as the "lieutenant" of future Ben. Given this speculation was made before the others and Ben were even revealed, I think it was pretty close call.

There was a time I didn't think Ethan Rom could be redeemed (remember Charlie hanging from that tree?) but we've learned so much about him (and recently Goodwin) that they aren't the monsters they once were. Which makes me think, will the writers be able to make me forget that Ben gassed his own father? I was more than halfway there before he shot Locke, and it will be awhile before I get that creepy "You're mine" out of my head, but if they play it right, I could still see Ben ending up on the "not-unpardonably evil" side. I wonder where it will stop. Widmore is looking pretty skiffy right now... but I wonder what's his story? What brought him to tell Desmond:

"...because you, Hume, will never be a great man... What you're not, is worthy of drinking my whiskey. How could you ever be worthy of my daughter?"

What was his reason for beating and kicking Ben's flunky in the last ep? Will we get that flashback?

In some ways (to tie into this thread) I'm beginning to think that Lost is the anti-Stand. So much of the Stand was based on us vs. them, on reducing everyone to two sides. Lost seems to be about exploding us vs. them... on erasing, or at least redrawing, the lines we use to force folks into categories. This is something they hinted at before the series started, and I love how it is playing out.