I Hate This Sub-Forum... [Archive]

aggiesean

11-08-06, 01:02 AM

If someone chooses not to recognize TLE, it's their loss, in my opinion. We've heard again from Gregg Nations (http://thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=63710) that the meaning of the numbers (and their role in the Valenzetti Equation) will NOT be covered on the show. So people who don't follow information from TLE will have to live with never finding this information out.

This forum has set itself up as a forum that focuses mostly on the show itself, and in that regard those of us who are members of this board, yet do not run this board, have to live with it.

I'm not a poster who hangs out in T&S often (mostly it goes over my head :) ), but I'd ask why many of our prolific theorists here do not venture as often into this forum and the information provided by TLE to further their knowledge of the Lost universe.

:Cowdance:

yung23

11-08-06, 04:04 AM

Moving a thread to the "spin off" forum is tantamount to a death sentence

NO guff !

I wonder who wore the friggin hood ?

doh.

LostViking

11-08-06, 04:09 AM

...which has become a graveyard for interesting threads that mention the Lost Experience. Seriously -- very few people still come here. Moving a thread to the "spin off" forum is tantamount to a death sentence. Some of these theories deserve better...

Every other site in which I participate takes a more liberal approach to the Lost Experience. Why are the preferences of anti-Lost Experience folks allowed to control? It's not as if the current arrangement is working. This just isn't fair...

I agree bigmouth. This place feels like a dirty basement below a bar. I really doubt most of the board will ever look here. It really discourages people from posting theories based in any way on TLE.

Why can't there be a "spoiler theory" section in the main area.

truffula

11-08-06, 04:43 AM

Okay, let me say a few words here before I head off to bed (yeah, I'm tired, but I wanna say somethin).

The reason why this sub forum is such a wasteland is because as of yet, nothing from TLE has any relevance to our current story on the show.

We also learned today from Gregg Nations at the Fuselage that Alvar's Orientation film that explains the Numbers will NOT be shown on the broadcast show.

Now - so they didnt know what to do or where to go with the "magical Numbers" angle. Oh well. I still LOVE LOST. :D There are MANY MANY more mysteries to ponder if the Numbers are indeed out of the equation so to speak.

Many of these things I ponder were covered in TLE - for example: we know where the supply drops are coming from. They bear the logo of DHARMA, extinct or not, those supplies are coming from the HANSO FOUNDATION. Also, we were given some history on the Black Rock and Magnus Hanso - which is info that I feel is very important to the show.

Now lets go back to the beginning of all this - the Lost Webmaze.
It all began after "Orientation" and TPTB opened up the Hanso Foundation website.
There were 2 payoffs ON THE SHOW from that, but we had to wait for both of them.
1 - the afternoon before "What Kate Did" aired, tha Hanso site changed, and had a hidden link that would bring up a little computer conversation. One that looked EXACTLY like the one between Michael and "walt" in that episode, shy of the last word....instead of "Dad"....on the Hanso site, it was "MOLE"

2 - In "The Hunting Party", Tom/Zeke/whatever you call him DIRECTLY QUOTED Alvar Hanso from his speech to the UN Security Council that was shown on the Hanso Foundation website.

So in closing, I think that eventually, things we've learned in TLE wil pay off on the show, and lets just give this sub forum some time to blossom :)
We're only 5 (soon to be 6) episodes into the season...there's ALOT more to come ;)

Peace,
Truff

John

11-08-06, 05:58 AM

Some of us occasionally lurk. Some of us are planning a later entrance to the TLE. Some of us have no time outside discussion of the actual show, but we have a hiatus coming. You never know who might start showing up here in this forum. ;)

Lab

11-09-06, 07:42 AM

This sub-forum was created at the request of members who wanted to post TLE/webmaze related theories.

It was anticipated this sub-forum would not get a lot of use, but would at least give those who wanted to use it, the opportunity to do so.

There are enough members who do not wish to see webmaze info in other areas to respect those wishes and keep webmaze discussion here.

We have had this discussion before.

Locking.

dzt66

11-09-06, 11:36 AM

There someone goes throwing their weight around again by closing a thread. Sorry, Lab, but sometimes this board just seems over moderated. What is the point of closing a discussion thread just because it has been discussed before? I have only been here for about a month so it is not new discussion to me. If you are sick of hearing it discussed then don't read it.

I have never been part of a board that merges so many threads, moves them, or closes them. Everything I have ever posted has been moved or merged which is fine. I appreciate knowing where things go. But then there is a thread on the general discussion board (which really ISN'T a general discussion board) called "non metallic metals" and it is basically a chat room for all of the most senior members and has nothing to do with non-metallic metals. How is that fair?

I'm sorry, I know you guys love your board and take great pride in making it a good board. I also know that it must be very difficult to moderate with so many users. I am just frustrated. The knowledge on this board is unbelievable and why I love it so much, but I just can't seem to get over the way things are handled here. I know you all don't mean to bully people or seem higher than the newbies but that is how it feels.

I know that this will make people mad at me and probably be moved, but I just had to back up bigmouth because I feel his frustration.

A Dante Raincharm

11-09-06, 11:38 AM

I'm closing this thread.

Just kidding... I'm not a moderator. I share your frustration.

Fierro

11-09-06, 12:59 PM

I think this is gonna get moved again. It's not in the right place. That's why they are moving your threads. You gotta learn where to post things. Mods merge threads because people keep posting to death questions that other people have already asked (it's unbelievable the amount of threads dealing basically with the same thing that people post even on the same day!)

As far as the NMM thread. That is something 'special'. It started as a valid thread dealing with it was supposed to deal, but it got out of control pretty soon. Now it's like a legend, a myth... It's untouchable. Not even the mods would dare messing around with it:)

dzt66

11-09-06, 01:09 PM

dzt66

11-09-06, 01:21 PM

Fierro

11-09-06, 01:31 PM

I understand your frustration. I've had a couple of problems with some mods, but we gotta learn to live with it. I ignore the reason they may have closed your threads, but it gotta be a good one, cause normally they just merge. If they closed this forums to new users, we wouldnt have fresh ideas. That's what everybody wants to hear: theories that nobody else has ever posted here before. If a new user posts something that has already been dealt with a very long time ago, he is gonna get picked on. One of the first rules before posting (mostly for new users) is to use the SEARCH function. Other thing to mention: whenever you think you have just found something that nobody else might have from, let's say first season, think again: chances are that it has already been discussed to death. People in this forum are very good at finding stuff and analysing. So basically they have all the bases covered already.

snakey

11-09-06, 02:36 PM

Anything about the webmaze will automatically be moved to the maze, The Lost Experience is here in depth for everyone. I understand that the mere mention of Hanso sends stuff to the maze that shouldnt as he definitely is mentioned on the show and when (if) they get into the Black Rock history, the Hanso name will come up again and I hope it wont be put into the maze threads.

blondiejam

11-09-06, 02:56 PM

I know this post isn't in the right place, I posted it here because what I was referring to was in this board. But thanks for looking out for me.

I don't mind my posts being moved to the right place. I actually appreciate it and learn from it. My beef is with closing threads because it has been discussed before. That is like saying "how dare you talk about something that has been discussed before?" When new people like me never saw the original post. Maybe this board should be closed to new users. That might make the mods more happy since they seem to get so frustrated with us newbies and with things being talked about that have already been discussed.

I know I am making people mad by saying this stuff. Maybe I am just moody because we are officially on a Lost hiatus until February and I am not fitting in with this board.

Sorry. I have now officially marked myself as a bitter newbie which I really don't want to be.

I understand your frustration. I've had a couple of problems with some mods, but we gotta learn to live with it. I ignore the reason they may have closed your threads, but it gotta be a good one, cause normally they just merge. If they closed this forums to new users, we wouldnt have fresh ideas. That's what everybody wants to hear: theories that nobody else has ever posted here before. If a new user posts something that has already been dealt with a very long time ago, he is gonna get picked on. One of the first rules before posting (mostly for new users) is to use the SEARCH function. Other thing to mention: whenever you think you have just found something that nobody else might have from, let's say first season, think again: chances are that it has already been discussed to death. People in this forum are very good at finding stuff and analysing. So basically they have all the bases covered already.

the idea of the forum is to put ideas and discussions together. if you post what you think is a new idea, and it is merged with another thread, that is the mods way of directing you to where your idea fits. it's not an insult.

but what Fierro said is a good point. you should search the forum to try to find any threads that apply to your idea before creating a new thread. if everyone created a new thread for every idea, the board would be very disorganized and no threads would get appropriate responses. i don't envy the job the mods face, but deeply appreciate their work.

:)

dzt66

11-09-06, 03:25 PM

I didn't post something webmazish outside of the webmaze. "bigmouth" was asking a question and then his thread got "closed" because the mod said it had already been discussed. My point was simply that it seems the mods get short tempered with newbies and shut down people who are really trying to figure out the board. If things are being re-discussed (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27574) on smaller boards (not a lost topic, just a question about webmaze) they should be a little more forgiving.

the idea of the forum is to put ideas and discussions together. if you post what you think is a new idea, and it is merged with another thread, that is the mods way of directing you to where your idea fits. it's not an insult.

but what Fierro said is a good point. you should search the forum to try to find any threads that apply to your idea before creating a new thread. if everyone created a new thread for every idea, the board would be very disorganized and no threads would get appropriate responses. i don't envy the job the mods face, but deeply appreciate their work.

:)

If you read what I said I have always been happy with my posts being moved or merged. It helps me learn where to post. I also appreciate everything the mods put into this board.

marshall2u

11-09-06, 03:41 PM

The mods do a good job here. Also, modding is not an exact science.

As far as newbies go, I have a few things I'd like to say.

I wish new people would spend a little more time doing either one of two things: either read the rules, or spend some serious time reading existing posts. I, honestly, didn't read all the rules, but I observed the goings on in the forums before really jumping in. Observing how things take place in here will basically give you the gist of the rules.

If you are new and feel you want to be captain obvious and post something that is very common knowledge, there are places this can be done and you won't get beat up too much. Again, this goes back to either reading the rules or being observant as to how things work. If you do either of these things, you will find that the mods are very consistant with their actions (not 100%, but damn good).

Finally: SEARCH FUNCTION, SEARCH FUNCTION, SEARCH FUNCTION!!! I'm sorry that you don't have the time to use it properly, but "I" don't have the time to sort through tons of inane questions and statements that have been gone over ad-nauseam. (I don't mean that to sound as harsh as it might come accross as sounding :) )

aggiesean

11-09-06, 03:55 PM

Finally: SEARCH FUNCTION, SEARCH FUNCTION, SEARCH FUNCTION!!! I'm sorry that you don't have the time to use it properly, but "I" don't have the time to sort through tons of inane questions and statements that have been gone over ad-nauseam. (I don't mean that to sound as harsh as it might come accross as sounding :) )
I think therein lies the problem at times. You have added this sentence to clarify that you don't wish to sound harsh, yet without it, your post can be construed as attacking. You have added it, of course, and I thank you for doing it. :)

The problem comes when genuine questions from new posters are met with terse responses that sound harsh, whether meant to or not. I was lucky enough when I first came here to make my first posts in what is now the Spinoff forum, where my questions about where information would go were met with kind responses.

I mention this here in regard to dzt66's comments in that at times messages of "moving" or "locking" from the moderators can be construed as harsher than they really are. It's a lose-lose situation; not all new posters can be expected to assume the best of moderators, and not all moderators can write statements like "Follow the re-direct for reading pleasure on this old topic! WHEEEEEEEEEEE!!!! :hyper: :hyper: :hyper:" or something like that.

Regarding questions of something being "discussed before," there's really two different scenarios involved here. One involves the previous questions from the Lost enterprise (encompassing the show, The Lost Experience, and other affiliated websites). These questions will be redirected to the thread where they are discussed, and in a perfect world all the solutions will be there, in the first post of the thread or elsewhere. (We're a little better about that "first post" thing here in the Webmaze discussion ;) ). If not, the discussion continues.

The other scenario regards board-related discussions, which is what Lab referred to in closing of the previous thread. Board-directed issues are at the discretion of the administrators, supermoderators and moderators of the board, and while we all have our views on these decisions, the discussion of the fact themselves is the foray of the moderators and administrators, not the members of the board as a whole. There are places (such as the Help Desk or via Private Message) where these issues can be brought up, but not necessarily on the board itself.

:Cowdance:

foxxie

11-09-06, 04:52 PM

I just found a very humorous thing here (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27207). Homer and Lab couldn't even agree on where a post should go. How can we figure it out then! Sometimes I think mods just like to move things for fun!

This is all said in a very light tone, since you can't hear me laughing here at home.

If you read what I said I have always been happy with my posts being moved or merged. It helps me learn where to post. I also appreciate everything the mods put into this board.

Please don't make light of the job that the mods do on this board. They all work really hard to keep this the best LOST board out there. If you do appreciate their work like you say you do, please show them some respect.

dzt66

11-09-06, 06:28 PM

I appreciate all of the responses and for being nice to me even though I was lashing out. I guess it just goes round and round. Mods and people who have been here forever get sick of seeing the same questions regarding the use of the board and maybe topics that have already been covered. Newbies get frustrated for the way things are handled because this is not your typical board. Newbies want to feel like they are participating and get their feet wet but they are afraid.

I have used the search function and have never posted something twice. And when I have posted I always add that I don't mind being moved to the right place.

Please don't make light of the job that the mods do on this board. They all work really hard to keep this the best LOST board out there. If you do appreciate their work like you say you do, please show them some respect.

I never made light of the jobs that mods do. On the contrary, I recognize what a task it must be to moderate with so many users and I welcome being taught the right way.

Okay, stop wasting your time on this frustrated newbie and go talk about what the heck happened last night. Sorry for the ramblings.

Lab

11-10-06, 12:12 AM

Thank you, all, for your replies and explanations, because you sure saved some 25:17 action I was working on. ;)

I just found a very humorous thing here (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27207). Homer and Lab couldn't even agree on where a post should go. How can we figure it out then! Sometimes I think mods just like to move things for fun!

Homer moves things to wherever he pleases in Spin-offs, I then move the thread to the specific sub-forum in Spin-offs where it best belongs.

There was no disagreement.

Me and Homer are eye to eye and just fine, I assure you. Thanks.

I didn't post something webmazish outside of the webmaze. "bigmouth" was asking a question and then his thread got "closed" because the mod said it had already been discussed. My point was simply that it seems the mods get short tempered with newbies and shut down people who are really trying to figure out the board. If things are being re-discussed (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27574) on smaller boards (not a lost topic, just a question about webmaze) they should be a little more forgiving.

The thread that was locked was just like this one, complaints. Not a theory or a speculation.

I locked it because everytime in the past we have had this discussion it gets heated and someone gets their feelings hurt. And you can PM me if you wanna talk about it, we aren't gonna keep opening new threads on it.

Bottom line, if its webmaze discussion, it belongs in webmaze.

I'll give you a link to a previous discussion, believe me there are more if you look. Use the search function. ;)

Heres a recent one:
The polarization between webmaze and GD, T & S, et. al (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22088)

ETA: I'm gonna merge this thread with bigmouths from yesterday, and I will leave it open over the weekend. Want to go on, go ahead. Monday its closing.

If you still want to discuss further after that, we don't need threads, use aggies suggestion and PM someone.

Have a nice weekend. :)

bigmouth

11-10-06, 06:01 PM

Well, my righteous fury had mostly subsided, then I read this:
This sub-forum was created at the request of members who wanted to post TLE/webmaze related theories
Odd, I seem to recall it was created at the request of a vocal minority who whined ad nauseam about TLE posts in Theories and Speculation.
It was anticipated this sub-forum would not get a lot of use, but would at least give those who wanted to use it, the opportunity to do so.
You are begging the question, which is why the preferences of anti-webmazers are allowed to control in the first place. Are they the majority? Do they even post regularly in T&S?
There are enough members who do not wish to see webmaze info in other areas to respect those wishes and keep webmaze discussion here.
Really? Has there been a poll? And are you including the many productive posters who have been driven away from T&S as a result of this policy?
We have had this discussion before.
Yes, funny how we keep having it again and again. Most people would take that as a sign the status quo isn't working. You can keep locking these threads, and referring posters to other locked threads (thanks a lot). But ignoring the problem won't make it go away...

aggiesean

11-10-06, 07:07 PM

While in theory I agree, let's look at this from a realistic perspective, bigmouth. The administrators of this board wish to provide a certain level of service that caters to as many Lost fans as possible. Now, this includes individuals such as you and I that know TLE information is canon, and those who wish to discuss only the television-aired material. There is a "vocal minority" who detest TLE information, yet there is also a "vocal minority" who insist that everyone should view it. In the middle is the silent majority, with varying views on either side yet not fervently on either.

Had the board completely caved to the anti-webmazers, we wouldn't even be allowed to discuss this. That's why separate sub-forums were created, in the hope that discussion on both levels could be encouraged.

The problem with this sub-forum is that it effectively covers two forums in General Discussion: that of Webmaze and that of T&S. At the time it was created, Webmaze was the only General Discussion forum with sub-forums. Since then,
-General Discussion: International was split into regional sub-forums,
-Shippers was split into "Canon" and "Creative" ships, and
-T&S added an index sub-forum.
All of these changes are great, and I applaud them. That being said, I no longer see a reason why T&S cannot have sub-forums containing "show only" and "show + TLE" theories, similar to the split sub-forums added in the Shippers forum.

You can keep locking these threads, and referring posters to other locked threads (thanks a lot). But ignoring the problem won't make it go away...
Anytime two groups have strong opinions, the conversation never ends, and the "problem" never goes away. Just to reiterate what lab said, though, the threads were locked because they discuss board-structure, which is a discussion which the moderators and administrators prefer to keep amongst themselves. (Thank you, lab, for giving us the chance to discuss this over the weekend, however.)

:Cowdance:

bigmouth

11-10-06, 08:19 PM

While in theory I agree, let's look at this from a realistic perspective, bigmouth.
Aggie: Considering that what I'm requesting is the status quo on other Lost boards where I participate, I don't think I'm asking anything unrealistic.
There is a "vocal minority" who detest TLE information, yet there is also a "vocal minority" who insist that everyone should view it. In the middle is the silent majority, with varying views on either side yet not fervently on either.
How do you know we're the minority? Has this question been put to a vote? The only people I ever see complain about this are a few mods who feel strongly. And but for their complaints about TLE, many of them never participate in T&S to begin with.
Had the board completely caved to the anti-webmazers, we wouldn't even be allowed to discuss this. That's why separate sub-forums were created, in the hope that discussion on both levels could be encouraged.
But why did the board cave at all to the webmazers? And why is the only acceptable solution our ghettoization?
The problem with this sub-forum is that it effectively covers two forums in General Discussion: that of Webmaze and that of T&S.
Actually, the problem as I see it is the is the fetishization of sub-forums. Each time you sub-divide, you impose a cost on posters to participate. Right now, those of us who want to reference the TLE are being forced to bear the entire cost of the webmaze "problem."

A more fair and efficient solution would be for us to label theories "TLE" and for the anti-webmazers to avert their eyes.

PS: Apologies to Lab for taking out my frustration on him/her. But the last straw for me was getting referred to a locked thread.

aggiesean

11-10-06, 10:06 PM

Aggie: Considering that what I'm requesting is the status quo on other Lost boards where I participate, I don't think I'm asking anything unrealistic.

How do you know we're the minority? Has this question been put to a vote? The only people I ever see complain about this are a few mods who feel strongly. And but for their complaints about TLE, many of them never participate in T&S to begin with.
I'll answer both of these comments together, as they officially address the same point. I was not calling your request unrealistic by any means. That being said, the rules and structure of this forum are set by the administrators and moderators of this forum. There are moderators and administrators on both sides of this argument, and some who are relatively neutral. The decisions on this topic are theirs to make, and not ours. We as regular posters are free to make suggestions privately (or in threads where permitted, as lab has permitted here), but in the end these decisions are theirs.

What you refer to as the "status quo" on other forums is based off of decisions made by the administrators and moderators of those respective forums. This, however, has become the status quo on this forum. As perveyors of this forum, it is not expected that we agree with every decision made by administrators and moderators on this and other issues, only to follow them.

A more fair and efficient solution would be for us to label theories "TLE" and for the anti-webmazers to avert their eyes.
I would have no issue with this solution, provided the T&S Index sub-forum contain TLE directories in addition to the show-only topical indices currently there.

:Cowdance:

littlelabrynth

11-11-06, 12:39 AM

A more fair and efficient solution would be for us to label theories "TLE" and for the anti-webmazers to avert their eyes.

I would have no issue with this solution, provided the T&S Index sub-forum contain TLE directories in addition to the show-only topical indices currently there.

Besides the fact that some people are intersted in show only material, I think one of the major problems with the inclusion of TLE material for some is that the events that occured in the ARG have little to do with what is happening on the show. I understand why TLE material should be kept separate when it comes to Rachel, Mittlewerk, ROT, etc. These people and events have no connection to the show, generally speaking.

However, the information about the Black Rock, Magnus Hanso, Alvar Hanso, DHARMA, the Valenzetti Equation, and the meaning of the numbers DOES. This information is considered canon by TPTB, but will probably NEVER be addressed through our characters stories on the show itself.

Perhaps if the material that can be considered relevant to the mythology behind the events on the TV show were sorted out and approved by the mods and administrators, it could be classified as acceptable TLE information. It could be posted/stickied for everyone to read and then the people who do not wish to be exposed to the rest of the TLE information would not have to be exposed.

I would also have no problem with what has been proposed by bigmouth and aggiesean. A sub-forum in T&S for webmaze material would be a fair compromise, IMO. What we have now does not work. There are a couple of interesting threads in this sub-forum that deserve more attention. If we did have a sub-forum in T&S for theories that incorporated TLE material, this allow for a fuller discussion of these ideas. Of course, there are also a couple of threads down here that should STAY down here.

This part of the board is generally ignored. But the bigger problem, IMO, is that the people who DO read this part of the board, seem like they are afraid to post in it. Some of the dumbest threads in GD and T&S get more responses from other posters than the best of the threads in this section. I see the number of views increase for these threads on a daily basis, yet NO ONE has any opinion on what they read. :confused:

NeillT006

11-11-06, 10:11 AM

This argument was lost a long time ago when people sat back and allowed the Internet elements of the LOST experience to be characterized as "spoilers," thus invoking all of the baggage which goes along with that characterization.

The decisions were made by people who I like, but who allowed spoiler-phobic attitudes to foreclose consideration, and enjoyment, of the LOST product in the manner intended by its creators.

They were wrong then. They are wrong now.

The argument against use of TLE in T&S has, over time, boiled down to two issues: (i) reliability and (ii) devaluation of the broadcast product.

The reliability issue arose from the "webmaze" which predated the actual LOST Experience product. And, it is true that early forays into the webmaze resulted in nothing more than unsanctioned fanfiction which had no place in the discussion of the story intended by the show's creators.

But those times are not these times. The character of TLE as "official" or sanctioned material is beyond argument. Sure, the occasional issue arises regarding some source but, as I have seen here, the non-sanctioned sites are quickly identified. And TPTB have been cooperative in identifying pretenders.

"Devaluation" involves the claim that revelation of some piece of information in TLE in advance of the appearance of that information on the broadcast diminishes enjoyment of the drama by disrupting the normal sequence of tension building/release, in a manner akin to true spoilers.

In my opinion, this concern is fully trumped by the decisions of TPTB as to how they wish to deliver their product. We are all free to either like or dislike the format adopted for the telling of the tale. But it has always struck me as somewhat arrogant for any of us to overrule TPTB, rejecting their creative vision, and accepting only those elements of the package which fit our vision of how things should be.

Regardless of my opinion, however, other factors have arisen which parry the thrust of the "devaluation" argument. It now appears TPTB intend to use TLE, at least in part, to reveal answers to show mysteries without further revelation on the broadcast itself. The effect of this on the underpinnings of the "TLE as Spoiler" advocates should be clear to all: if TLE is the only place where we will ever get answers to certain questions, those answers will never function as spoilers in the sense posited by TLE's critics. Those answers will not have the capacity to devalue the broadcast and, indeed, will serve only to increase the overall understanding and enjoyment of the show and its mysteries.

Don't fool yourselves, however, into thinking that there will be any change in the attitudes of those who have voiced their abhorrence of TLE, or that now some sort of compromises can be struck which would allow freer use of TLE in T&S. The issue has acquired significance well beyond its own parameters. There are those who are personally invested in the argument who like to win and who have the power to do so.

Yes, this argument was lost a long time ago. Just look at what has happened in this thread over the last couple of days and ask yourself, honestly, do you think it likely that there has been any change in attitude by those who could make a difference?

N.

clayseason1

11-11-06, 12:03 PM

JacksGirlfriend

11-11-06, 01:22 PM

The title of this thread intrigued me

It intrigued me, too.

I guess I should start by explaining why this sub-forum is here:

As the webmaze evolved, it became clear people were interested in using the information presented to create theories. A problem arose in T&S (and other places) because threads became filled with information that was unrecognizable to most of us. We would be reading along and think "what the heck? where did that come from?" To the majority of people here, webmaze is foreign information. I still believe the majority get all their information from the TV show. As more and more threads began to fill with this kind of information, we realized something had to be done because the viewers of the show were being exposed to information they did not want to know. Whether some felt it was pertinent to the enjoyment and/or solution of the show was beside the point. Most people did not want to see it - it caused confusion, it caused ideas to be skewed by knowledge beyond the common grasp and occasionally dropped a spoiler into the mix.

Spoiler tags didn't always work because a thread could become filled with tags and consequently become very un-readable.

We didn't want to curb the enthusiasm some of you had for the webmaze material so we reached a compromise. We created this forum so you could run free with your ideas and exchange all the information you wanted. It was put in the webmaze forum because we thought it would be more convenient for you. It was not meant to segregate - but obviously you feel that is what's happened.

There is still ongoing debate on whether the information presented in the webmaze is canon. Some of you feel it is. Some of us aren't sure. Those of us who refused and/or didn't have time to engage in webmaze may find ourselves disatisfied with the outcome of the show. I've said before, if that's the case, I will be scrambling through these threads looking for my satisfaction. Others may as well. But at this time, our policy is to keep webmaze material separate because we feel it can interfere with a logical discussion of the television show itself.

The real problem here seems to be the location of your T&S forum. If you feel you would receive more traffic and participation if it were moved to the T&S area of the board, I am perfectly willing to bring it to the group for discussion.

littlelabrynth

11-11-06, 02:44 PM

The title of this thread intrigued me, so I decided to take a quick look. I'm glad I did. When I first started reading the thread, I thought it was just a rehash of a well-debated topic (some of it is) and then I realized that it really is more than that. It's a discussion of board-wide problem. Let me explain.

I recently began working with Hodgepodge and RoseArienh in the Cast and Character forum, developing character walkthroughs. An example (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1037878&postcount=4) I've never regularly participated in that forum but I always thought it was well traveled as the LOST characters are multi-layered and therefore would attract some in depth discussion. However, I now know that forum suffers the same problem the Webmaze forum suffers - Traffic Flow.

IMO, the real problem is how to get people who only post in 1 or 2 forums to participate in other areas of the board.

Yes, traffic flow is one of the problems, but it is not the biggest problem with this sub-forum. At least the idea of a character walkthrough does not cause an immediate knee jerk reaction by some members the way that the mention of TLE material does.

I have never seen a thread moved out of GD or T&S just because somebody decided to try to analyze a character. All it takes is for one person to post TLE material. Some mods are really patient and just edit the post to hide the material behind spoiler tags, but other mods will quickly move it to the basement.

I have read a few of the character walkthroughs and I have been VERY impressed. I have to admit that I only check that section of the board about once a month or so. Mostly what I see down there are picture/media threads and love/hate clubs. The other threads I see about the characters contain many observations that are being discussed openly everywhere else on the board.

Don't get me wrong though, I have been known to actively read the Paulo Hate Club Thread. I also have subscriptions to a few of the picture threads. But if I want to read about a character or try to analyze their actions, I can do it in any part of the board I want too without having to hide it behind a spoiler tag for fear of offending anyone.

There is still ongoing debate on whether the information presented in the webmaze is canon. Some of you feel it is. Some of us aren't sure.

The real problem here seems to be the location of your T&S forum. If you feel you would receive more traffic and participation if it were moved to the T&S area of the board, I am perfectly willing to bring it to the group for discussion.

Would these quotes by Javi and Gregg Nations help to solve the debate about whether or not this stuff is canon?

Confirmation from Javier Grillo-Marxwatch (link (http://hansofoundation.livejournal.com/1978.html?thread=24762#t24762)) (link (http://hansofoundation.livejournal.com/2236.html?thread=48572#t48572)) (link (http://hansofoundation.livejournal.com/2236.html?thread=52668#t52668)) (link (http://hansofoundation.livejournal.com/2236.html?thread=89020#t89020)).
Confirmation from Gregg Nations (link (http://thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=47155)) (link (http://thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=63710)) and here is a question I posted to Gregg Nations a few days ago looking for further clarification of what TPTB considers canon to the mythology of Lost (link (http://thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=64429)). He has not logged on since the day before I posted the question, but hopefully we can get an answer next week.

I would love to have a sub-forum in T&S for webmaze related threads. At least it would give everyone a fair chance of exchanging or ignoring ideas based from both the show and TLE.

island_maverick

11-11-06, 03:11 PM

Would these quotes by Javi and Gregg Nations help to solve the debate about whether or not this stuff is canon?IMO, no, they wouldn't. Greg or Javi or someone else from ABC need to come out and officially announce to the television audience that TLE is pertinent information in support of the TV plot. Until such time, it will remain the domain of the segment of the web community that is interested in it.

It makes no sense to affect/alter the viewing experience of 'television people' - it would be unfair to force information on them if their radar does not seek interest beyond the confines of the one hour weekly TV slot.

In terms of the placement of this sub-forum, JG has made the suggestion of relocating it to being a sub-forum within the regular T&S forum, and this can be reviewed with the team if you consider it an avenue worthy for discussion.

Simply, this sub-forum was set-up to allow free, unrestrainted discussions about theories reliant on TLE information, out of respect to both those interested and not interested in TLE. It seems like you are saying it is time for a change.

littlelabrynth

11-11-06, 05:10 PM

Simply, this sub-forum was set-up to allow free, unrestrainted discussions about theories reliant on TLE information, out of respect to both those interested and not interested in TLE. It seems like you are saying it is time for a change.

I am sorry if you misunderstood me. I did not say it was time for a change, I only tried to offer a possible solution to an obvious problem and I thought I might be able to offer confimation for those who cared. I have no problem with what JG suggested. That is what I want. I also have no problem with keeping it the same as it is now. You do not see me running around the board posting TLE information everywhere. I do not even post spoiler tagged information in areas outside this forum. I decided along time ago to honor the wishes of those who did not want to be exposed to the information and I will continue to do the same. Once again, I am sorry. I will keep my opinions to myself from now on.

island_maverick

11-11-06, 05:29 PM

Once again, I am sorry. I will keep my opinions to myself from now on.Calm down.

There's nothing to apologise for. Nor should you feel the need to keep your opinions to yourself.

When I said, "it seems like you are saying it is time for a change" I wasn't directing the statement at you personally. I was, like the rest of my post, addressing all those who had posted their concerns in this thread. The fact that you were the last person to post before I did, is just a coincidence.

Don't be so quick to take offence and jump to the wrong conclusions. :nanabobo:

Just to re-state what I was trying to say earlier - is this just a letting-off steam thread, or are people keen to see a change of organisation along the lines of that suggested by JG?

littlelabrynth

11-11-06, 07:33 PM

Calm down.

There's nothing to apologise for. Nor should you feel the need to keep your opinions to yourself.

When I said, "it seems like you are saying it is time for a change" I wasn't directing the statement at you personally. I was, like the rest of my post, addressing all those who had posted their concerns in this thread. The fact that you were the last person to post before I did, is just a coincidence.

Don't be so quick to take offence and jump to the wrong conclusions. :nanabobo:

Just to re-state what I was trying to say earlier - is this just a letting-off steam thread, or are people keen to see a change of organisation along the lines of that suggested by JG?

Sorry...Because you had quoted my post concerning verification that the material is indeed canon and considered important to the Lost mythology by TPTB, and then stated that the information still had no influence on your opinion of whether or not it could be considered as a valid reason for re-evaluating the need to address this issue made me a little defensive.
:flowers:

But...if we can go back to that.

Originally Posted by littlelabrynth
Would these quotes by Javi and Gregg Nations help to solve the debate about whether or not this stuff is canon?IMO, no, they wouldn't. Greg or Javi or someone else from ABC need to come out and officially announce to the television audience that TLE is pertinent information in support of the TV plot. Until such time, it will remain the domain of the segment of the web community that is interested in it.I doubt that will ever happen. The closest we are ever going to get are the OFFICAL Hanso Foundation commercials that were shown during the last few episodes of Season 2. Those commercials invited every single viewer of LOST to join in on the webmaze. They have reached out to their television viewers by using other types of media, including websites, podcasts, magazines, etc. If you would like to hear Javi speaking about his involvement with TLE and how he, Damon, and ABC created the ARG in order to get out to the fans the mythology behind LOST that would never be addressed in the televised show, I would be happy to provide a link. It is from an official LOST panel at Dragon*Con in Atlanta this past September. Javi and Paul Dini were there as official representatives speaking to the television show's fans. The panel was about the TV show, but Javi encouraged questions about the ARG and answered us as honestly as he could. Only a fraction of us knew about the webmaze beforehand.

Yes...I would like to see a TLE subforum in T&S. I am sure there are many other posters who would as well. Maybe, in order to be fair to ALL of the members of this board, you could make a poll. A simple vote for or against JG's proposal. It could be anonymous. No one would have to fear being labled a "webmazer". It would be fair to everyone and then no one could make assumptions as to why or why not there is or isn't a compromise.

Just to re-state what I was trying to say earlier - is this just a letting-off steam thread, or are people keen to see a change of organisation along the lines of that suggested by JG?I think this thread stated off as a "letting-off steam thread" with hopes for a change. Thankfully...it has developed into something more than that. :)

NeillT006

11-11-06, 07:56 PM

are people keen to see a change of organisation along the lines of that suggested by JG?

Count me in. There is nothing I like better than pointless, superficial change which ignores the real issue.

N.

John

11-11-06, 08:14 PM

The real issue?

I think it's an issue of perception. The long standing rule from the inside out has been that if it's on the TV show it's not tagged, while everything else is. Call it what you will, but TLE discussion, just like interviews and podcasts, is to be tagged.

Whether the information is spoiler or not is not the issue. The issue is that some people don't want to discuss TLE, some people do, and some people find it ludicrous that others are not interested. The best solution is to do as we have done. If moving forums around helps improve traffic, then so be it. If people who follow the maze are irritated that more people don't follow, take the complaint to TPTB. This forum will cater as best it can to all preferences.

NeillT006

11-11-06, 09:02 PM

I think it's an issue of perception.

I do too.

Our eyes can either be opened or they can be closed.

N.

John

11-11-06, 09:07 PM

I do too.

Our eyes can either be opened or they can be closed.

N.

No, that would be a matter of choice, and that's what this message board supports.

NeillT006

11-11-06, 09:25 PM

No, that would be a matter of choice, and that's what this message board supports.

Go ahead.

You choose for me.

Oh. Wait. You already have.

N.

John

11-11-06, 09:32 PM

Go ahead.

You choose for me.

Oh. Wait. You already have.

N.

See, that's part of the mis-perception, and it's where your eyes are closed. Nobody has chosen anything for you. You are free to choose to discuss any LOST related material on this message board, as long as it is posted with respect to the guidelines of the board. That doesn't limit you from posting any LOST material.

If you feel slighted or limited in what you can discuss, I suggest you reconsider.

NeillT006

11-11-06, 09:54 PM

See, that's part of the mis-perception, and it's where your eyes are closed. Nobody has chosen anything for you. You are free to choose to discuss any LOST related material on this message board, as long as it is posted with respect to the guidelines of the board. That doesn't limit you from posting any LOST material.

If you feel slighted or limited in what you can discuss, I suggest you reconsider.

I live mostly in T&S, which existed as a place for open, wide ranging and imaginative discussion of the issues and mysteries presented to us by TPTB.

When the TPTB made clear their intent to broaden the format of their creation to include media beyond TV I looked forward to new energy and ideas in the T&S forum.

But, the decision was made to exclude non-TV material from the forum.

The decision was not mine.

Since that time, T&S discussions have had imposed on them arbitrary restrictions which did not previously exist, and which in my opinion have impaired rather than promote the free flow of ideas on that forum.

In any event, the threat parts were interesting.

N.

sculpey

11-11-06, 10:34 PM

island_maverick

11-11-06, 10:39 PM

So, would I be correct that those who don't want to know anything beyond what appears on the 'show' immediately throw away the bonus disc that comes with the DVDs?I don't own any DVD sets - do the bonus discs have TLE information on them?

John

11-11-06, 10:48 PM

Those "restrictions" are no different than podcast, spoiler, promo pic, or interview restrictions. People that frequent those materials have no issue with the restrictions. Why is it that there is such an issue with TLE?

There is no exclusion of information and you know it. You can tag your information and it will be included for all that choose to read it. There is even a whole forum right here for you to run tagless in if that suits you better.

If I buy a new car, can I get what I need by reading the manual, or do I have to visit the website too? If the manual contains the information that I'm looking for and I am satisfied with that it is my decision. Is it polite for Mr. Jones next door to place face down on my windshield a flyer which contains information from the website that I'm not interesed in?

Incidentally, what threat?

John

11-11-06, 10:50 PM

So, would I be correct that those who don't want to know anything beyond what appears on the 'show' immediately throw away the bonus disc that comes with the DVDs? Just in case the cat plays it or something? ;)

I use them for coasters.

No really, I watched the S1 set in its entirety. I haven't opened my S2 set yet.

sculpey

11-11-06, 10:57 PM

I use them for coasters.

No really, I watched the S1 set in its entirety. I haven't opened my S2 set yet.

I haven't watched any of the S2 set either. Well, I did watch how they made the hatch. If I wasn't to lazy to make a poll, it would be interesting to know how many other people bought the set but didn't watch it. I don't think we're alone here.

John

11-11-06, 11:06 PM

Would you please get your drum stick in sync with my pocket watch? The discord is giving me a headache.

JacksGirlfriend

11-12-06, 12:07 AM

There is nothing I like better than pointless, superficial change which ignores the real issue.

I am trying to compromise here, Neill. Moving the webmaze theories to the T&S forum might allow for more traffic and interest. It seems to be something people might want.

aggiesean

11-12-06, 02:03 AM

are people keen to see a change of organisation along the lines of that suggested by JG?
I'll come right out and say that I'd be all for this.

:Cowdance:

Echo

11-12-06, 06:01 AM

I'll come right out and say that I'd be all for this.

:Cowdance:

Here, here. Another vote for this.

NeillT006

11-12-06, 11:56 AM

Why is it that there is such an issue with TLE?

OK.

Lets try one more time.

Unlike the other information sources you list, TLE is an integrated part of creator's work. Saying that you should not think or talk about TLE is like saying that we are going to discuss a book, but under no circumstances bring up anything which may have arisen in Chapter 4.

I didn't decide to present the story this way. Its creators did. This is the way they want to tell the story.

Yes, it is stupid. The story elements are minor relative to the amount of work that it demands from the viewer. It is seriously over-commercialized. The production values are far inferior to the broadcast elements. It reeks of net-nerd-ism. It may not even survive to run contiguously with the balance of the TV run.

But, it is LOST.

And we are being told that there is a likelihood that elements of the mystery which have been addressed in TLE will not be addressed in the broadcasts.

The TLE does not involve information the disclosure of which disrupts the timing and order of the story's telling contrary to the intent of TPTB.

TLE is part and parcel of the way TPTB have elected to tell their story.

Years ago I took a wonderful young woman out for an evening. We went to see Young Frankenstein. Later that evening, while exiting the theater, I asked her how she liked it. She relied, "it was terrible." Terrible? Why? "Well," she said, "it was in black and white. Movies should be in color."

Good thing she was cute.

N.

Lab

11-12-06, 11:56 AM

I apologize, I am real busy right now and haven't had a lot of time to actively participate in this discussion.

The staff have all made valuable input.

As for the thinly veiled jab that appeared aimed at me, all I can say is you do not know my input among the staff, so don't try to guess it. But I am first and foremost a Mod for this area of the board, so it should be perfectly clear where my own personal opinions on TLE lean. But as a member of a staff, we all have to discuss and come to consensus on what the majority feel is right for the board. And I am going to enforce the guidelines and rules that are decided on.

It's never a perfect science. Respect and appreciate that. We continue to discuss these issues and changes are always a possibility.

Again, I'm really busy right now, but I'l check back in again when I can.

Thanks to the other staff for monitoring and participating in this discussion.

bigmouth

11-12-06, 02:48 PM

Righteous fury fading ... fading ... RISING ... fading ... fading ... gone. I'm mostly over my little tantrum (apologies to all esp. lab who was just following orders). I think JG's proposal is a great start that should be pursued, but it's not enough by itself for a couple of reasons.

First, as Neill rightly notes, it doesn't address the arbitrary treatment of TLE information. If someone referenced material from Bad Twin, they wouldn't get relocated to the sub-forum ghetto. Unless further accommodation is made for at least SOME types of references to TLE, the feelings of frustration will persist. Consider this my counter-proposal, which I'll return to in a moment.

Second, it doesn't address the related problem of over-policing the rules re TLE. One frustration that led to this thread was the way even passing references to the "Valenzetti Equation" attract the attention of some sticklers even when no explicit reference is made to TLE. There needs to be more freedom to mention such things without mods immediately stepping in.

I'll be frank -- I don't get the complaint of "too much information." Seems to me you're free to ignore TLE references just as you're free to ignore the latest literary parallel or scientific article that's posted. But if that's truly the objection, let's at least apply it fairly. At this point, some information is already known even by fans who didn't follow the game.

I think the connection between the Numbers and Valenzetti falls into the latter category. So too do details like Magnus Hanso's relationship with Alvar. These facts are like certain comments by TPTB that are so well known they don't even get tagged as spoilers (e.g., they're not in purgatory). They're also directly relevant to numerous things we've seen on the show.

So make this a subforum of T&S by all means. But above and beyond that, I urge the mods to loosen their enforcement of the rules. De-criminalize some types of TLE references even if you don't formally legalize them.

yung23

11-12-06, 03:26 PM

heres another to add to the marker for death thread list

R.I.P.

1. the awakening of Apollo

2. BM's evolution or extinction

3. now this thread.
http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27946

littlelabrynth

11-12-06, 04:16 PM

I'll be frank -- I don't get the complaint of "too much information." Seems to me you're free to ignore TLE references just as you're free to ignore the latest literary parallel or scientific article that's posted. But if that's truly the objection, let's at least apply it fairly. At this point, some information is already known even by fans who didn't follow the game.

I think the connection between the Numbers and Valenzetti falls into the latter category. So too do details like Magnus Hanso's relationship with Alvar. These facts are like certain comments by TPTB that are so well known they don't even get tagged as spoilers (e.g., they're not in purgatory). They're also directly relevant to numerous things we've seen on the show.

So make this a subforum of T&S by all means. But above and beyond that, I urge the mods to loosen their enforcement of the rules. De-criminalize some types of TLE references even if you don't formally legalize them.

While I am grateful for the consideration the mods are putting forth on this issue, I have to agree with Neill and bigmouth. TLE information is already posted all over the board behind spoiler tags, but if someone should want to address/discuss/analyze/debate/debunk said information, it must remain a secret either behind the tags, or here in the wasteland.

Earlier, I posted a suggestion about how the board possibly could handle the issue. From post #26 (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1104990&postcount=26):
Perhaps if the material that can be considered relevant to the mythology behind the events on the TV show were sorted out and approved by the mods and administrators, it could be classified as acceptable TLE information. It could be posted/stickied for everyone to read and then the people who do not wish to be exposed to the rest of the TLE information would not have to be exposed.

That is just one possible compromise though. If anyone else can come up with anything better, then please do. You can look around this board and see that people do infact want to discuss these details. Just because they were not interested in participating in the webmaze does not mean that they do not have questions about the Black Rock or the numbers.

sawyerhasbestlines

11-12-06, 07:12 PM

2 points:

- I remember when T&S and Discussion threads got displaced and pushed back to page 3 and beyond because they got burried by the threads which are now in this forum.

- To address, the traffic problem - it's hard for people like me to join discussions here. Why? Because my computer skills are so nil, that I can't follow along with the mazers and experience it with them. So I lurk sometimes, but not enough to know what's going on and join in discussions.

I wish theories here and in T&S were a bit more integrated without one displacing the other.

John

11-12-06, 07:16 PM

And we are being told that there is a likelihood that elements of the mystery which have been addressed in TLE will not be addressed in the broadcasts.

Many members of this message board do not wish to be introduced to information that comes from outside the show. If that information makes it into the show, they would prefer to experience it then and not before. This message board will be run with that preference in mind. Period.

First, as Neill rightly notes, it doesn't address the arbitrary treatment of TLE information. If someone referenced material from Bad Twin, they wouldn't get relocated to the sub-forum ghetto.

There is nothing arbitrary. All material that comes from the TLE is treated exactly the same. If I encounter a thread based on Bad Twin, it's sent to the TLE forum. If I find a post or two, tagging occurs.

Unless further accommodation is made for at least SOME types of references to TLE, the feelings of frustration will persist.

Accommodation has been made for TLE information just as it has been made for podcast information. Tag it.

Second, it doesn't address the related problem of over-policing the rules re TLE. One frustration that led to this thread was the way even passing references to the "Valenzetti Equation" attract the attention of some sticklers even when no explicit reference is made to TLE. There needs to be more freedom to mention such things without mods immediately stepping in.

If you feel that a specific situation includes over-policing, I invite you to PM a staff member. Outside of that, the same old rule applies. If the information does not come from the televised show or related preview, it will be tagged or moved to the proper forum.

I'll be frank -- I don't get the complaint of "too much information." Seems to me you're free to ignore TLE references just as you're free to ignore the latest literary parallel or scientific article that's posted. But if that's truly the objection, let's at least apply it fairly. At this point, some information is already known even by fans who didn't follow the game.

Information is known because it was not handled properly. I know all of the key points of the information provided in the TLE, and over half of it was learned because I stumbled across information that should have been tagged. In some cases it was posted untagged by members who knew better.

I think the connection between the Numbers and Valenzetti falls into the latter category. So too do details like Magnus Hanso's relationship with Alvar.

They fall into the TLE category and they will be tagged correctly or moved to the TLE forum.

This is the same old argument that has boiled for months. Some members who are involved in the TLE feel that everyone who watches lost needs to know the information in the TLE. Some feel that there is no need to tag it because it doesn't matter. Some respect other member's right to avoid the information and experience LOST as they see fit.

There is no reason to force TLE information on anyone. I preferred to avoid it myself, but as a function of my responsibilities here, I was exposed to a most of it through untagged information. Don't get me started on the intentional posting of untagged TLE information that has occurred outside the TLE forum.

My personal feelings on TLE are that I found it interesting, but I wish I had not learned the information yet. It interferes with the way that I chose to experience LOST. That choice is something that this message board will continue to defend.

bigmouth

11-12-06, 08:36 PM

Many members of this message board do not wish to be introduced to information that comes from outside the show. If that information makes it into the show, they would prefer to experience it then and not before. This message board will be run with that preference in mind. Period.
Plane: But why? Why is this message board run with that preference in mind? People seem to be assuming that the sub-forum represents some sort of compromise. But it's not -- only one side is being asked to sacrifice.
This is the same old argument that has boiled for months.
With all due respect, maybe this argument keeps boiling over because the one-sided approach that's been adopted isn't working. Remember, the rule against TLE references operates as an artificial constraint on information that otherwise wants to be free.

Such constraints work fine when the community at large agrees (e.g., spoilers). But where regulation creates "the same old argument" again and again, it's usually a sign of some deep disconnect between the rule and the preferences of the community.
There is no reason to force TLE information on anyone. I preferred to avoid it myself, but as a function of my responsibilities here, I was exposed to a most of it through untagged information. Don't get me started on the intentional posting of untagged TLE information that has occurred outside the TLE forum.
Again, no disrespect, but I feel like your comment supports my point. By your own admission, "most" of your exposure to TLE was "a function of [your] responsibilities" as a moderator. By contrast, nothing "forces" other posters to read such information even when it's posted in T&S or General Discussion.

I'm not saying it never happens, and I don't mean to diminish your displeasure when it does. Honestly, though, how hard is it to avert your eyes when you sense the discussion is revealing too much? This seems to be the approach posters take on other forums (e.g., the fuselage) where the rules are more liberal.

Again, I understand that's an imposition on your preferences. But segregation of TLE discussions is (imo) an even greater imposition on our own, and the unfairness of this imbalance is driving posters away. Whether intended or not, the policy signals hostility for those who want to discuss TLE.

snakey

11-12-06, 08:56 PM

The Lost Experience has been over since 9/27, during the summer we fought our little war all alone and lonely. I am chuckling, yes really chuckling, at this spat now, I guess better late than never or is it too little too late?
At this point why cant the experience threads (spin-off, webmaze, T&S)all be joined together? Since the site specific ones (Hanso Foundation, ROT, DJ Dan etc) are pretty dead if the T&S is still kicking it would bring viewers into this consolidated area and keep hope alive.

NeillT006

11-12-06, 09:12 PM

JacksGirlfriend

11-12-06, 09:13 PM

By contrast, nothing "forces" other posters to read such information even when it's posted in T&S or General Discussion.

The force happens when they're perusing a thread on a subject they're interested in and suddenly there is a discussion occuring of which they have no knowledge and have no interest in knowing. I've seen many threads switch gears because of the introduction of new material. By the time a poster realizes this (because he thinks he's missed something), he has already been exposed to untold amounts of things he didn't want to see. We've gotten 100% better with that, and I thank all of you for it, but it still occasionally happens.

I'm trying to be fair here. I asked for a list of some of the information that's been uncovered in webmaze. I didn't want to see it (anyone who knows me will tell you that) - but I wanted to know for myself if we were being unreasonable. There's no way for someone to tell me - I have to form my own judgment.

Truff made a list of some of the major highlights you all have unearthed. It is very interesting stuff and other than the Black Rock information (I would have preferred to keep my pirate dream alive), there wasn't anything I thought would dampen my enthusiasm or ruin my experience. However...

If the things on the list are important, they will HAVE to be revealed on the show. If they are going to be revealed on the show, then they technically have not aired yet. And if they have not aired... well you know what that means. They have no place on the board as a whole.

As far as I can see, none of these ideas have impacted the character development as yet. None of them have changed the course of the action. They may, however, do so in the future. In that regard, they could ruin someone's excitement when the information is finally revealed.

I'm not saying you shouldn't discuss this stuff. If it turns out to be important, the entire direction of the show could change once the information is let loose. But that is the very reason why, at this point, it has to be semi-confined.

I'm sure some of you have awesome theories based on what you've experienced. I'm sure there are lots of people on this board eager to read them. That's why I've suggested moving the T&S area into the T&S forum - to allow easier access to those who may feel lost in the web forum and are curious to see what ideas you've come up with. But, by the same token, there are a great many "show only" people on this board and the history here has been to view things from that perspective - as though the show exists in and of itself, without outside influences.

Some of you may feel change is necessary, but I don't. So far the structure of this board has worked and people have enjoyed it. I don't want to risk that. Allowing this information on the general board at this time is tantamount to including spoilers in regular threads. Sure, eventually it might be on the show... but it's not there yet. If it's not there, it can't be out in the open.

island_maverick

11-12-06, 09:17 PM

Some bits of TLE are 'real', some bits are 'fun but not relevent'. That is problem one.

Problem two, is that as much as they have enjoyed flexing their imagination with parallel scripting, to the best of my knowledge (do others know better?) not once has any there been anything broadcast from ABC before, during or after an episode of Lost that advises TLE is supporting information to assist the TV-viewing experience. While this particular situation persists, I don't see how TLE will elevate itself beyond its current paradigm.

NeillT006

11-12-06, 09:29 PM

Allowing this information on the general board at this time is tantamount to including spoilers in regular threads.

If one accepts this premise, then of course you are right.

But you are wrong.

Because it is not.

N.

(I want to have a good attitude. I really do.)

NeillT006

11-12-06, 10:00 PM

- I remember when T&S and Discussion threads got displaced and pushed back to page 3 and beyond because they got burried by the threads which are now in this forum.

The threads that were causing the issue you discuss were the "nuts and bolts" threads -- those that were given over to the thrill of the chase; the mechanics of the who/what/where/hows of mining the information.

The separate forum for the "working" threads solved those issues, and no one is complaining about, or advocating a change in, that framework.

The bone of contention here is what to do with the nuggets produced.

N.

island_maverick

11-12-06, 10:07 PM

The bone of contention here is what to do with the nuggets produced.The nuggets may as well be processed chicken as long as TPTB choose to de-marque the TV show from TLE.

littlelabrynth

11-12-06, 10:28 PM

JacksGirlfriend

11-12-06, 11:00 PM

If one accepts this premise, then of course you are right.

But you are wrong.

Because it is not.

Has this information aired? No, it has not. Is it something that might potentially air? Yes, it is. That puts it in the same category as spoilers - Lost-related material that may or may not be shown on the TV. That means it has to be contained under tags.

If this statement were true, then I would have never learned about electromagnetism, remote viewing, nanobots, what namaste means, the backgrounds on several different philosophers, what Aboriginal Dream time is, etc, etc, etc.

These are ideas and theories created by imaginative people who watched the show and took their thoughts to a higher level. Each one of these theories started as a thought sparked by something they viewed on the TV. Remote viewing, electromagnetism, Aboriginal dream time, etc. were here from the first month the show aired. There was no TLE then - just people looking for explanations.

There is every possibility that an idea expressed in TLE might have sparked a similar idea, or confirmed an idea someone already had. To have stated that idea was not the issue. The problem arose when all the supporting evidence came from TLE and not from the show itself. I think there's a big difference - athough I'm sure Neill will beg to differ.

NeillT006

11-12-06, 11:07 PM

athough I'm sure Neill will beg to differ.

I rarely beg.

N.

JacksGirlfriend

11-12-06, 11:08 PM

Key word being "rarely."

NeillT006

11-12-06, 11:12 PM

Has this information aired?

Yes it did.

It "aired" in the manner intended by the show's creators.

If I read Gregg Nations right, the only explanation of The Numbers that we will receive is the one we have been provided on TLE.

Again, that may suck, and may not be the way that you or I or LIW want the thing to play out, but it is not our show. It is theirs.

N.

island_maverick

11-12-06, 11:23 PM

It "aired" in the manner intended by the show's creators.But it hasn't been aired via the medium of television. While they continue to keep TV and TLE officially seperate, so should we.

NeillT006

11-12-06, 11:26 PM

While they continue to keep TV and TLE officially seperate, so should we.

Who said they have?

N.

island_maverick

11-12-06, 11:28 PM

Who said they have?When have they said on TV transmission that we need to follow TLE to support the TV plot?

JacksGirlfriend

11-12-06, 11:45 PM

TLE and the show are connected by virtue of their mythology only. They may be based on the same history, but, if you watch the TV show only, you would have no way of knowing that. At this point we are dealing with only the history as presented on the TV - the rest is dessert, not the main course.

Some people don't want dessert, Neill, and yet they will still enjoy their meal. There is no point in bringing around the dessert cart unless it's included in the price of the meal. And so far it's not.

We can go around and round forever on this and never see eye to eye.

island_maverick

11-12-06, 11:49 PM

We can go around and round forever on this and never see eye to eye.I have a feeling Neill might enjoy that journey.

NeillT006

11-12-06, 11:55 PM

When have they said on TV transmission that we need to follow TLE to support the TV plot?

Where have they said that TLE does not support the TV plot?

N.

NeillT006

11-12-06, 11:58 PM

It would be an unusual restaurant that would make you move to another area to eat your desert just because of the food fetishes of fellow diners.

N.

island_maverick

11-13-06, 12:16 AM

Where have they said that TLE does not support the TV plot?A tenuous argument, at best.

NeillT006

11-13-06, 12:19 AM

A tenuous argument, at best.

Thank you for agreeing.

N.

island_maverick

11-13-06, 12:32 AM

Thank you for agreeing.
Not really.

I am suggesting that a TV show that doesn't make specific reference to external information does not need that information to assist the airtime plot.

You are suggesting that a TV show that doesn't deny reference to external information is, by default, one that requires the information to assist the airtime plot.

In hindsight, I was being generous when I was referring to your hypothesis as being tenuous.

NeillT006

11-13-06, 01:19 AM

I'm suggesting that it isn't just a TV show.

But if you stamp your feet real hard three times maybe you can wish it otherwise.

N.

JacksGirlfriend

11-13-06, 01:36 AM

It would be an unusual restaurant that would make you move to another area to eat your desert just because of the food fetishes of fellow diners.

Okay - then let's say a cigarette after dinner. They would make you move to the smoking section or the bar. Doesn't mean other patrons can't be in there as well, but it's their choice if they choose to be surrounded by the smoke.

Better?

(I used the dessert analogy cause I prefer not to eat dessert)

NeillT006

11-13-06, 01:38 AM

Okay - then let's say a cigarette after dinner.

So, TLE is carcinogenic?

N.

vonnegut

11-13-06, 01:53 AM

It would be an unusual restaurant that would make you move to another area to eat your desert just because of the food fetishes of fellow diners.

N.

If you are eating deserts, it is CERTAINLY an unusual restaurant.

*runs quickly out of thread*

NeillT006

11-13-06, 01:58 AM

If you are eating deserts, it is CERTAINLY an unusual restaurant.

Sorry, I was thinking of the place where you work.

N.

LostViking

11-13-06, 02:16 AM

From the fuselage:

www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=47155

ANIGEN21:

Hey Gregg,

I'm a huge fan of the show--and I am ultra exicted for the Lost Experience this summer. The initial clues have been amazing and I love the revamped Hanso foundation website.

I asked this over at the Lost Experience thread, and they suggested that I asked you. So here goes:

This may be a really stupid question, but I figure it needs to be answered/discussed anyway.

Are the events and information that unfold during the Lost Experience going to be considered canon for the show as well?

GREG NATIONS:
Thanks for being the source of my new obsession
Oh, yes. Damon and Calton wouldn't be putting the info out there otherwise. They've been working on this since January, and it's a nice way to get out some mythology information that may not have worked its way out through characters' stories.

There's a lot more coming your way, so I hope you enjoy.
Are the events and information that unfold during the Lost

So it has been said here before that while the Lost Experience is part of the writer’s “universe Lost”, it is not part of the broadcast show. It is canon – but may never be part of the TV series. The producers wrote it, advertised it on ABC and major newspapers, and did the whole act at comicon. Everything in that orientation video is real in the Lost universe, but wont be aired. I guess it is really directed at us, the hardcore fans who spend their time writing and reading about other peoples impressions of a fictional TV show.

At this point, I think it is a safe bet that the Lost producers conceived the experience after looking at the way Star Wars had the “Clone Wars” produced and shown before the final Star Wars three was shown. I believe they took a more active role than George Lucus. While Mr. Lucus allowed others to write and produce the shows, he did treat the shows plots as canon to the rest of the Star Wars Universe. Yet very little from the Clone Wars found it’s way into the movies. Watching them explains a lot of background to the Star Wars fan and enhanced the whole experience. I never got the whole General Grievous thing until I watched those cartoons.

So, if it will never be broadcast, what do we do with the information given to us by the Lost Experience. More importantly how does anyone distinguish between theories based on information that are derived from members of this board delving into the experience and theories that are independently derived – yet contain elements discussed in the Lost Experience. There are several major theories out there, that have been around before the lost experience, that have been discussed by the experience. Take the numbers thread for example. There were people last year who speculated that the numbers might be what the Lost Experience says they are. Should the whole numbers thread be moved here since it is TAINTED with experience posts. I have seen several original theories, not derived from the experience, but mentioning elements of it, sent here – to the theory dungeon – just because other members of this board saw fit to mention or cite the Lost Experience in the non-experience theory thread.

I think this is ridiculous. By the current standards on this board, more than half the things mentioned in the general T&S mention elements and plots revealed in the experience. I can completely understand the desire to delve into broadcast only material. That leaves out podcasts, previews, interviews, things I take pictures of in Hawaii, rumors, news articles and anything else that doesn’t happen in the 61 minutes Lost occupies each week on ABC. All those things I mentioned are SPOILERS – I know that, and I fully respect it. The Lost Experience is no different – and I think it is narrow minded of this board to treat it as though it is LESS than other spoilers. The only solution to this is to create a “spoiler theory” area and locate right below the current T&S. It works on the fuselge and it can work here. I am upset only by the threat of good threads being moved to this Low traffic dungeon – not your attempts to keep the Experience out of the GD areas.
:Hippy:

John

11-13-06, 02:26 AM

The Lost Experience is no different – and I think it is narrow minded of this board to treat it as though it is LESS than other spoilers.

How is it treated as "less"? The same rules apply to TLE as apply to other non-televised subjects. If anything it's treated as more.

Homer Noodleman

11-13-06, 02:37 AM

dweisspt,

The reason the numbers are low in here is the same reason ABC pulled the plug in TLE. There isn't much fan interest in it.

I would suggest TPTB made a mistake by making Lost a fictional TV show inside of the TLE universe. That effectively disconnects the two. That is, at any point they can contradict the TLE in the TV show, and then weasel their way out of their "what's cannon" paradox by saying the two occupy two different realities.

Regardless of whatever PR blathering is flying out of their mouths at the moment (and are there people who still believe their shilling?), the PTB structured them to be two different stories. As such, like it or not, the TLE is quite separate from Lost. That's why many people pay no attention to it -- they're watching a TV show, but are not interested in the web based spin-off from it.

LostViking

11-13-06, 02:39 AM

How is it treated as "less"? .

Everything else that is a spoiler is sent to the spoiler section, a place viewed by more than two people at a time, when a theory is determined to be tainted by the Experience - it is sent here.

The current sliding scale policy also opens the moderators to being accused of playing favorites. Why can some people post comments about the content of the Experience and not be repramanded or moved and others not enjoy that same freedom? Why allow yourselves to be exposed to this possiblilty? This experience stuff is no different than other spoiler info.

Is it that the Spoiler folks don't want to be tainted by the experience? I really doubt that. People who look for any and all tidbits - no matter how small or lame - to help them understand Lost are not going to be upset by a few theories based on the experience.

John

11-13-06, 02:46 AM

dweisspt, nobody is playing favorites.

TLE information is not sent to Spoilers because it's TLE. You're right. There are spoiler folks who don't want to view TLE information for exactly the reason that Homer stated - it's separate from the TV show LOST.

If you are unhappy with the numbers of people interested in TLE, that is not the fault of this message board, it is the fault of TPTB.

NeillT006

11-13-06, 02:47 AM

-- COMPOUND BREACH --

-- COMPOUND BREACH --

Oh.

Look.

Its Homer.

In TLE.

Someone shake him down for a slingshot.

N.

Homer Noodleman

11-13-06, 02:48 AM

dweisspt,

We've widely advertised the existence of this area of the forum. People are free to go where they want. The fact they they are in Spoilers, and not in here, is not a conspiracy, it just reflects what the board membership is interested in.

truffula

11-13-06, 02:50 AM

The reason the numbers are low in here is the same reason ABC pulled the plug in TLE. There isn't much fan interest in it.
Just so you know, there was no "plug" pulled on TLE.
It had run its course. It had a planned beginning, and a planned ending (for this round ;)). Javi addressed some of the things that they had to scrap along the way, but the overall "experience" was played out as concieved.
And the 48,814 folks that participated directly in Act III of TLE isn't exactly what I'd call lack of fan interest....

LostViking

11-13-06, 02:51 AM

As such, like it or not, the TLE is quite separate from Lost. That's why many people pay no attention to it -- they're watching a TV show, but are not interested in the web based spin-off from it.

Fair enough Homer. I believe it is part of the show - and explains the entire Dharma distraction. I am thrilled, by the way, to think that the fact they explained it in the experience means they will be dropping it in the show. You may be surprised to learn that I thought the entire Lost Experience game to be quite lame. I didn't like it at all. I couldn't be bothered finding the clues and piecing them together. It amazed me how much fun everyone seemed to be having at something I felt was quite boring.( For much the same reason, I never attended a Gators game for the three years of grad school I spent there.)

But that Lost Eperience orientation video is another thing. Its the same as the other videos we have seen. And it clearly explains the numbers and Dharma. If you don't think its really part of the Lost - no problem - but I do. Or at least, I like to believe it's true. It enhanced my enjoyement of this show. It made me think of new theories - and made me re-look at old ones. Your own Dark Territories is enhanced by the video - because the video explains enough to free your mind from Dharma. :rolleyez:

LostViking

11-13-06, 03:14 AM

dweisspt,
The fact they they are in Spoilers, and not in here, is not a conspiracy, it just reflects what the board membership is interested in.

Ok Homer - you have touched on the heart of this issue. I am not going to ask for a recount or make any comments about my own opinion of what the entire membership might or might not want. You have been here way longer and are certainly much more involved than I ever come close to.

But I want to add a thought to "what the board membership is intersted" - viewership. We post here to hear what other people think about our ideas. The more volume and replies we get, the happier the members of this board are. If I spend hours contriving a theory that explains everything on Lost and have it moved a day later because some yahoo posted a comment in it based on Experience info, I am going to feel slighted. No one is going to read my theory here. My only reason for posting it in the first place has been dimished by moving it here.

I doubt a vote or headcount of who wants the Lost Experience here or there would ever reflect anything more than who likes the Lost Experience. I think there is no difference from a theory in the spoilers section based photo suposedly taken at a set and something theorized on from the Experience. We might not ever know if either thing is based on the reality of Lost.

I think they should be equally treated.

Homer Noodleman

11-13-06, 03:29 AM

If I spend hours contriving a theory that explains everything on Lost and have it moved a day later because some yahoo posted a comment in it based on Experience info, I am going to feel slighted. No one is going to read my theory here. My only reason for posting it in the first place has been dimished by moving it here.

...

I think they should be equally treated.

First off, I think that is a bit of a straw man argument. A comment mentioning the TLE posted by somebody later in the body of a thread won't get that thread moved. The comment will either be wrapped in spoiler tags by a mod, deleted or ignored. It is a thread that starts with a lot of overt references to TLE that will get moved.

They are equally treated, it is no more difficult for a viewer to enter this forum than it is for them to enter any forum. They go where they choose.

LostViking

11-13-06, 04:01 AM

A comment mentioning the TLE posted by somebody later in the body of a thread won't get that thread moved. The comment will either be wrapped in spoiler tags by a mod, deleted or ignored. It is a thread that starts with a lot of overt references to TLE that will get moved.

I am not too sure of that. I had one of my thread - that in the initial post did not have a Lost Experience reference - moved because of what others had posted.

Island Maverick sent me a pm afterwards to explain the moderators decision. I am sure its bad form to do this, but I am going to quote what Mav said to me in his pm, because it was his explanation of the board policy( please forgive me for posting this Mav)

The problem is, what is to stop anyone from reading TLE/SPoilers and then posting an idea on that info in the wider GD forums, thereby surruptitiously revealing potential spoilers to those wishing to wait until it definitely comes out on the TV show? In your case, I could sense your frustration at not getting enough views or discussion in the mini T&S in webmaze.

I have seen other posts that started off Experience free only to be moved here. But, I hope what you are articulating is the new and improved policy, although I would like to see a real definition of what constitutes "overt".

I hope everyone understands that I do not intend any of this in a mean spirited or detracting way. I just wanted to express my own opinion here - I am glad for once to post here and have an immediate response by someone like Homer.

Homer Noodleman

11-13-06, 04:22 AM

dweisspt,

Ah, well... then I'm wrong about that. In fact, now that you mention it -- I think I remember a thread of yours getting moved. It was about the numbers being constants in a formula, or something like that, and then a number of Maze people jumped in?

Moving a thread is always a judgement call -- and that was a tricky one. Sometimes a mod will get to a thread too late and the damage is done. Sometimes none of the open options are all that good.

Did you ask if a repost of the thread with a warning to steer clear of Maze suff would have been ok?

John

11-13-06, 04:29 AM

dweisspt is referring to a thread that he started in GD which was based on TLE information, only he didn't tag the info or come forward with the fact that the idea was actually based on TLE. He had started a similar thread back here a few days before. Those threads are now combined here (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24008).

Homer Noodleman

11-13-06, 04:42 AM

Guys,

I've made it clear this area is supposed to stay TV-Centric. Dweisspt's original post accomplished that quite nicely. However, it wasn't long that the Maze stuff explicitly had to get dragged in. Tisk, tisk.

I'm removing ST from the thread title because this area is for TV discussion only. A thread veers so far from the show that it needs a ST tagging will get booted out of here. This section of the board is restricted to the show. If you don't like that restriction -- don't waste your time whining -- post elsewhere on the forum where the ST tagging of a thread is allowed.

I'll leave the spoilerish stuff tagged, but ask that NO more if it appear in this thread. Talk about the notions raised in the parent post all you want, but please keep the conversation confined to events that have aired.

That's your example of power drunk mods? Looks like we tried to be polite about it and got no where.

LostViking

11-13-06, 05:27 AM

dweisspt only he didn't tag the info or come forward with the fact that the idea was actually based on TLE. here (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24008).

TPTP,

Yes I think the mistake I made was making two threads - one in Webgame T&S

But I did not write anything in the GD thread that was in any way out of the Experience. I am not sure what I could have added spoiler tags around. Also, many things that have been spoiler tagged in the first post with the words "TLE spoiler" get sent here within seconds.

I am really sorry to bring all this up again - I was not too upset at the time, and more than over it now - but I want you to look at what I posted. Yes it was all based on a concept I had gotten from the Experience - and if you don't know, this was not ever said in the Experience or shown. It was a speculation I had after other information in TLE.

Here was the post in question

I have a new thought about the numbers - that is best placed here I think.

When we first hear the Danielles Distress call there is a male robotic voice that plays after her message that says "Iteration..."and then a number. Sayid tells us that the induration tells us how many times the message has played....since Danielle changed it.

Now, I have to ask, why would such a system exist unless it was expected that the numbers would CHANGE?.

Obvioulsy there is an automated system that was braodcasting the numbers. Danielle claims she heard it. Lenny heard it. Then Danielle is stranded, she kills her shipmates and finds the radio tower. She changes the message - and now her message plays instead of the numbers and the iteration measures the number of times the new message plays.

Why is there a way to change the message in the first place.

I think the answer is the numbers are not as static as we all thought. I think the design of how this message is braodcasted and the fact that Danielle was able to change it indicates that the numbers can change - and the radio system was desined to not only allow for the change but also to measure it.

It may be that this has been brought up before - but not as an individual post - please let me know if I am mistaken....

TPTP, I am writing this as an example, its mine so at least I know the intent and history. After this happened, I have all seen this played out week after week with other members - many of them new ones.

As I said above, my mistake was the dual post of this. Had I just posted in GD, I think I would have felt this was more of a witchhunt.

But I ask you, judged on its own merit, in GD, is this thread really a Lost Experience spoiler? It was never mentioned (probably never will) in the show or in TLE. Yes it was based on the information in TLE that the numbers could potentially change. (I would add that when I posted this - we had not yet learned in TLE that the numbers could change - so it was really a guess on my part)

Without Dane

11-13-06, 06:43 AM

aggiesean

11-13-06, 02:45 PM

While I understand that this thread may be locked today as lab had mentioned, SHBL brought up an interesting point in another thread moved here just now:

It's hard to get people interested in this side of the board, when there is endless threadjacking in every thread about how to organize. Can the organization discussion be contained in one or a couple areas instead of bleeding throughout?

I'd argue that moving something from one sub-forum in T&S to another would lead to less discussion and thread-jacking in this regard than the current method of moving the posts to separate forums.

And in the absence of such a move, leaving this thread unlocked would allow for discussions on this nature to take place here rather than threadjacking the discussion threads as I'm sure the authors and supporting theorists would prefer.

:Cowdance:

bigmouth

11-13-06, 03:16 PM

If this statement were true, then I would have never learned about electromagnetism, remote viewing, nanobots, what namaste means, the backgrounds on several different philosophers, what Aboriginal Dream time is, etc, etc, etc.
littlelab: Exactly -- very well said. Every day I'm confronted with outside information that affects how I consume the show. Sometimes I'm bothered by the ideas and esp. how they're presented. I get sucked into arguments and research I might otherwise have avoided. But that's the cost of participating in any marketplace of ideas.
Okay - then let's say a cigarette after dinner. They would make you move to the smoking section or the bar. Doesn't mean other patrons can't be in there as well, but it's their choice if they choose to be surrounded by the smoke.
JG: Hmmm...why not stick with an analogy involving ideas and information, which is what's really at stake? Every day, when I walk down the street, I'm exposed to all kinds of speech that I find disturbing and/or offensive, whether it's the cigarette advertising aimed at kids, or the anti-abortion protestor handing out pictures of bloody fetuses. It's up to me to look away -- that's part of life in a democracy.

Now, I understand that Lost-tv is neither a democracy nor a public forum. But we are a marketplace of ideas, and I think we should aspire to the free exchange of information as much as possible. And if that doesn't persuade you, think about it practically. I know I sound like a broken record, but the fact that this frustration keeps boiling over is a sign of disconnect between the preferences of the regulators and regulated.

So where do we go from here? Like I said, JG's suggestion is a great start. Beyond that, I love littlelab's suggestion of allowing certain TLE information that we can all agree is relevant into discussions on other boards. I think information relating to Valenzetti, the Numbers, Magnus Hanso, and the Black Rock should all be fair game since all of those things have been mentioned on the show. I'd also argue for references to the Sri Lanka Orientation, which features Alvar Hanso...

Warthawg1

11-13-06, 03:26 PM

If someone chooses not to recognize TLE, it's their loss, in my opinion. We've heard again from Gregg Nations (http://thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=63710) that the meaning of the numbers (and their role in the Valenzetti Equation) will NOT be covered on the show. So people who don't follow information from TLE will have to live with never finding this information out.

If it's not going to come up on the actual show, then I just don't care.

I'm not into television shows that require a companion guide. If it's not going to be explained on the show, then it must not be very important to the big picture.

That's not to say anything bad about the people who enjoy this aspect of the show, but I suppose there are many people who feel like I do, and that might explain a lack of interest in this sub-forum.

bigmouth

11-13-06, 04:21 PM

That's not to say anything bad about the people who enjoy this aspect of the show, but I suppose there are many people who feel like I do, and that might explain a lack of interest in this sub-forum.
Wart: I think simple human nature explains the lack of participation in this subforum. People aren't going to go to the trouble of searching out the subforum. But I have suspicion these threads would generate a LOT more interest in T&S and GD.

Consider my thread Extinction or Evolution (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24253). I posted it in General Theories on the Fuselage, but in the webmaze forum on Lost-tv. Ordinarily, my theories get MANY more responses on lost-tv -- but not this time. Only 12 replies and 561 views here compared with 35 responses and 1220 views there.

Obviously, this doesn't prove anything -- there could simply be more posters interested in TLE over on the fuselage. I do, however, find it interesting that the disparity is (a) so pronounced and (b) contrary to the usual response of both sites.

John

11-13-06, 04:34 PM

Yes I think the mistake I made was making two threads - one in Webgame T&S

That didn't help, because the thread was flooded with comments from people who were commenting in your thread back here.

Yes it was all based on a concept I had gotten from the Experience - and if you don't know, this was not ever said in the Experience or shown. It was a speculation I had after other information in TLE.

The thread was based on TLE information, and therefor did not belong in the forum that you posted in.

Wow, Gregg Nations said the whole Valenzetti Equation/numbers thing won't appear on the show? That's foul!

Spot on. That's one reason that information is not allowed without tags outside this forum. It's not part of the broadcast television show, yet loosely based on the same concept. There is no promise that TLE will stand the test of time concerning the broadcast television show.

I know I sound like a broken record, but the fact that this frustration keeps boiling over is a sign of disconnect between the preferences of the regulators and regulated.

It's a small disconnect, and it's certainly not due to the staff not hearing your plea.

...I love littlelab's suggestion of allowing certain TLE information that we can all agree is relevant into discussions on other boards. I think information relating to Valenzetti, the Numbers, Magnus Hanso, and the Black Rock should all be fair game since all of those things have been mentioned on the show. I'd also argue for references to the Sri Lanka Orientation, which features Alvar Hanso...

No. Those subjects were expanded upon in TLE and in that capacity are not a part of the televised show. If you wish to discuss those things, you will need to tag appropriately.

Warthawg1

11-13-06, 04:38 PM

Wart: I think simple human nature explains the lack of participation in this subforum. People aren't going to go to the trouble of searching out the subforum. But I have suspicion these threads would generate a LOT more interest in T&S and GD.

Big: That probably does play a large role as well. Sometimes there can be too much organization. I don't like having to go to too many different sub-forums. In fact, I've seen some interesting topics in other areas of this site become less active after getting their own special sub-forum.

island_maverick

11-13-06, 09:46 PM

I am sure its bad form to do this, but I am going to quote what Mav said to me in his pm, because it was his explanation of the board policy( please forgive me for posting this Mav)^^^^ At last, I get a reason to use that voodoo kit I got last Christmas.

But, I hope what you are articulating is the new and improved policy, although I would like to see a real definition of what constitutes "overt".Moderating is not an exact science, judgement will always play its part. In the case of the thread you refer to, it was a carbon copy of a TLE TS thread and I felt it would have only served to 'eductate' non TLE members about TLE information. I made a call to move that thread out of main T&S for that reason, a decision I stand by.

I hope everyone understands that I do not intend any of this in a mean spirited or detracting way.Like I said, I'm tearing at the cellophane on my voodoo kit as we speak.... :nanabobo:

Ah, well... then I'm wrong about that. I don't think you were, Homer. The rules as I interpreted them at the time:

1. TLE info is to be tagged when posted outside of those forums
2. Threads started whose initial premise is TLE get moved to TLE forums

And the one relevent to dweisspt's thread which, by all fair means, is only common sense in my book:

3. Threads which get over-run by TLE, even if hidden behind tags, will eventually get moved (regrettably for the OP) as it has migrated from being a regular thread to a TLE thread - and seeing tags in every subsequent posts makes it hard to follow, too. This is where judgement will make its biggest play.

dweisspt is referring to a thread that he started in GD which was based on TLE information, only he didn't tag the info or come forward with the fact that the idea was actually based on TLE. He had started a similar thread back here a few days before. Those threads are now combined here (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24008).Yes, an important factor in the thread being moved and eventually merged.

dweiss, I won't post an excerpt from your PM reply to that PM from me you quoted...but I'm fairly sure you admitted a moment of haste and apologised unreservedly. Accordingly, I took it that moving the thread was contentious but not unreasonable on my part.