Famous Names

[hurtingatheart]

I wasn't sure whether or not to put this in the General Discussion section, but I decided this would be safer (and you can always move it).

I was looking at the list of characters and I started noticing that a lot of them have famous names. Here are the ones I made a possible connection to:

Boone: Could be linked to Daniel Boone, a great American explorer in the 1700's. (Maybe Boone will come across/discover something on the island?)
Walt: Could be linked to Walt Disney, founder of the Disney children's movies. (Could represent the innocence and child-like aspects of Walt.)
Sawyer: Could be linked to Tom Sawyer, fictional character in Mark Twain's novel, The Adventures of Tom Sawyer. In the book Tom is a trouble-maker in the beginning, but as the book goes along, he matures and starts making responsible decisions. (Maybe Sawyer will follow suit and start acting responsibly?)
Jack: The one that comes to mind first is Jack the Ripper..the mysterious killer who was never caught in London. Rumor has it, the man behind the killings was a doctor. (Maybe after Jack killed the Marshall...he starts killing more people? Unlikely, but hey.) Also, the name Jack comes from John which means "merciful". (More mercy killings?)
Locke: Has already been speculated that he may be linked to John Locke, a 17th century philosopher.

As for Kate, Hurley, Shannon, Sayid, Michael, Jin and Sun...I could not think of anything...except I think there was an American Western Outlaw with the name Kate, but I'm not sure.

I tried looking up the meanings of the "leftover" names, however, and (out of the ones I could find) one stuck with me:

Kate: Pure/virginal. (Maybe she's innocent after all?)

Just an idea. =)

[JacksGirlfriend]

Interesting - I thought of Tom Sawyer as well, although I think it popped into my head because it's not a very common name, at least I've never met any.

I was thinking the name Boone had to be significant somehow because, really, do you know any people with the first name of Boone?

I think Michael means "gift from God" (my son's name is Michael) and I'm pretty sure he was the Archangel of Justice. Not sure how that will come into play, but if Walt is special like a lot of people seem to think, it might.

Shannon is I think an Irish name, fairly knew as an American name. Look into the Irish of it. It's also a place there. Sayid, Sun and Jin will have to be analyzed from their own culture. Shouldn't be too hard. They sound pretty common.

Kate is probably Katherine. There are saints named Catherine but I know nothing there. Not a Catholic. And I know there's something called a St. Catherine's Wheel, which I think was an instrument of torture associated with one of them. I think it was destroyed by her touch.

And you'll have to think of another association for Jack. I refuse to go with Jack the Ripper. How about Jack and the Giant Killer?

JacksGirl

[Abraxas]

Don't read too much into a simple name like "Jack".
There's no question that the less common names are intentional, but "Jack"...nah.

Why is the dog called "Vincent"? :D

[MonsterEatsPilot]

Good topic. I thought of Walt Whitman when Walt's name came up...

Some info on Whitman...

The central point of Whitman's philosophy lay in his faith in the powers of Man. Man is the source of all potential goodness, beauty and truth; indeed, he and God partake of the same nature. But to develop his creative inclinations, man needs freedom, freedom open to all, built on equality, tolerance, and self-respect. Each individual should be given a full opportunity to use freedom and prepared for it by the public acting in collaboration with the forces of law. This, in essence, was Whitman's idea of democracy.

In fact, Whitman was devoted to a philosophy which combined pantheism with a strong belief in human action, which unites the human soul with cosmic life but stresses the uniqueness of human personality and human relations. His civil, democratic, human consciousness was rooted in an all-embracing feeling of cosmic solidarity, and he was anxious to avoid any attenuation, and not to be deterred by psychic transmigration to the remotest objects.

There is a tension between Whitman's firmness of conviction and his universal receptivity for impressions, sensations, ideas and phenomena, between his feelings of being a missionary of democracy and his mythical imagination. But this same tension strengthened his poetical power and did not endanger the unity of his character. From cosmic vagaries he always found the way back to simple truth and common sense.

[cccourt]

Purrkins: Thanks for restoring my faith of posters here!!
Great piece!

The names could be metaphors for the people making them known. Walt connected to W. Whitman is believable. To Walt Disney? I don't think so.
ccc

[MonsterEatsPilot]

Sorry for a quick double post but...

Sayid = Master

According to various websites.

This is VERY interesting. He is indeed taking a leadership role but "master" implies a dominant role and a submissive role... although he seems to be a very respectful of all other survivors... Hmmm...

Waylaid, thanks, enjoy your posts too.

I think the KEY people for right now are Walt and Locke (additional information on Locke can be read in the "Locke is a guardian angel..." thread) as there is an interesting relationship between the two...

[Abraxas]

Sayid is a common name in middle eastern countries, I think. Quite like "Jack".

[JacksGirlfriend]

Sayid = Master.

It's perfect. I love it.

JacksGirl

[MonsterEatsPilot]

Is indeed very common, a quick google search came up thousands of "sayids" but the translations of this is "master" -- on deeper thought this could mean "master carpenter," "master chef," "master tailor" etc... to denote a proficency in a profession or certain skill and not a position of dominance/leadership that I mentioned in my original post. I would be interested to know his full name however... But, I do not think this is a mere coincidence.

[indigoblind]

And I know there's something called a St. Catherine's Wheel, which I think was an instrument of torture associated with one of them. I think it was destroyed by her touch.

Indeed it was a torture device. It was a wheel with spikes inside and someone was placed inside and generally rolled down a hill. It gives it's name to the firework So-called as well because it was used to kill St. Catherine for being a Christian.

[Myzty]

Sayid = Master ??

LMAO... You guys make me feel normal again. Ah I love this place!

Syed (misspelt as Sayid) is a term of respect: like Mister/Master//MR./MS. before a person's name.

[Abraxas]

Yeah, I thought it must be Syed. I guess Sayid is the English way to spell it, this has become a standard, already.

[JacksGirlfriend]

The character list spells it like Sayid.

Myzty: Is there some misunderstanding I'm not aware of?

JacksGirl

[Abraxas]

Yes, but Myzty is correct on this either way.
Or maybe both exist? I have no idea.
Spelling of Middle Eastern names is usually very different throughout the world.

[MyZackyMacky]

I love animals with people names :D

[MonsterEatsPilot]

I think both are proper spellings...

However, if Sayid/Sayed is simply a formal term of respect like Mr., Dr., Master etc... then what is his real name!?

I mean, this would be as if I went around and introduced myself as "Mister."

He identified himself as "Sayid/Sayed" in the Pilot episode to Hurley. Quite possible he was withholding information BUT, if he was withholding information why did he mention he served in the Republican Guard -- I think this is more damning than revealing his true name.

So, is his name Sayid or is it Sayid something something or other? Now I'm confused...

[MyZackyMacky]

On Oz, they spelled the name Said.

[dude21009]

Walt = Walter Matthau because he and Locke make an odd couple

[Abraxas]

No, it's Syed. :p
Sorry.
And that's not a title but a real first name.
Myzty should clarify.

[AilaAolani]

Sayid means master not like in dominance and submission but more like one might say Lord so and so in medieval times. as in al sayid al harb would be "warlord" in Arabic.

[JacksGirlfriend]

I wasn't thinking of Sayid in dominance/submissive terms because he certainly comes across as respectful of others, interested in their well being and protection of the group as a whole. I thought "master" as more of a teacher, a guide. But I like the warlord concept. Definitely leadership potential there.
JacksGirl

[OneFoolOfATook]

LMMFAO, Dude!

This Is A really Interesting Post....I Like It And I'll Have To Think On These Names.....
Perhaps Sayid *is* hiding something if he was introducing Himself As "Mister"...But Who Knows....Besides The Writters? O_o
Perhaps He Just Doesn't Trust Anyone, Why Would He? I'm Sure He Has Reasons Not Too....
I Heard Sawyer And Imediatly Thought Of Tom Sawyer Too....I Think The Description Above About Him Starting Out As A Trouble Maker And Maturing As Time Went On Is A Good One....I Can Already See It...I Think Everyone Can.
I've Heard Charlie's Last Name Is Potts...Well He Is A Junkie....maybe It's In Referance To "Pothead" LMAO!!!

- - -

[JacksGirlfriend]

Maybe Charlie is a reference to "good time Charlie". Not sure where the expression came from but it's been around a long time.

JacksGirl

[OneFoolOfATook]

OH! That Really Makes Sense JG! He Is A Fun Kinda Guy...Rock Star And All That.....Good Time Charlie....I Don't *THink* I've Ever Heard That....But I Think It Fits....
I Like It!

- - -

[JacksGirlfriend]

I remember my mother saying it. She used to say her dad (after he left her mother) was a "good time Charlie", meaning he liked to drink and dance, hanging with the ladies. Charlie may just be an updated version.

JacksGirl

[OneFoolOfATook]

...that sucks.....Sorry to hear....
but I think it does fit charlie....he is flirting with every chick (SKIRT CHASER!) and he is talking to just about everyone....even Locke....who ignored him! heheh....he's trying to be everyone's buddy....it really does fit him.....

- - -

[Myzty]

I am sorry for not getting back to this earlier.

JacksGirl: I am not sure what you meant?

Thanks for the vote of confidence Abarax. :) Appreciate it.

Okay, I should know what this means since one of my best friend's name is "Syed" and I know how much he hates it when ppl spell it Saheed, Sahaid, Sayid, Sayeed, Saeed, ... well you get the gist.

Even though his name is a prefix, we just use it as his first name. As he has like 5 different names so we kind of took our pick and it would not surprise me at all if "Sayid" of Lost would actually turn out to have a different FIRST NAME all together. :rollin I know I am not much help.

There are two forms or ways this name is used in muslim regions.

Syed as a prefix

Saeed/Sahid/Sayid/Sahaid as a first name


Syed as to a name as "Sir" (lets say) is to a Lord in English. This term is to be used as a means of respecting someone as it belongs to the most respectable bloodline (for Muslims all around the world) of Prophet Mohammad PBUH.

Saeed as a first name means respected (Arabic)/priestly (Hindi)/Happy (Persian).

Whatever the case maybe, one thing is obvious he is being painted as a respectable character so far as we have seen.

[JacksGirlfriend]

Myzty: I think I was just confused because someone said it meant "sir" and implied it wasn't really his name. But it's in the character list so I know it's his name.

I like all the meanings and they all relate to the character.

JacksGirl

[Myzty]

They do, don't they! :\

I am not the kind of person who'd watch a tv show religiously, but this one has got me hooked. Gotta love it!

[Dstorm7]

Hello all! This was my first post that I originally posted as new thread & I was directed here. Glad to see the discussion already taking place.

Here is what I have found so far.

-------------------------------------------------------


KATE

1st meaning: Usage: Celtic;Gailic: Pure, Virginal

2nd meaning: Usage: English

Short form of KATHERINE. This is the name of the woman who Petruchio marries and tries to tame in Shakespeare's comedy 'The Taming of the Shrew'.

KATHERINE Usage: English

From the Greek name Aikaterine. The etymology is debated: it could derive from the earlier Greek name Hekaterine, which came from hekateros "each of the two"; it could derive from the name of the goddess HECATE; it could be related to Greek aikia "torture"; or it could be from a Coptic name meaning "my consecration of your name". The Romans falsely derived it from Greek katharos "pure" and changed their spelling from Katerina to Katharina to reflect this. The name belonged to a 4th-century saint and martyr from Alexandria who was tortured on the famous Catherine wheel. This name was also borne by two empresses of Russia, including Catherine the Great, and by three of Henry VIII's wives.

HECATE Usage: Greek Mythology (Latinized)

Possibly derived from Greek hekas meaning "far off". In Greek mythology Hecate was a goddess associated with witchcraft, tombs, demons and the underworld.

JACK

Short for John - "John is Merciful"

JOHN Usage: English, Biblical

English form of Johannes, which was the Latin form of the Greek name Ioannes, itself derived from the Hebrew name Yochanan meaning EzCode Parsing Error: color=maroon size=4]"YAHWEH is gracious]". This name owes its consistent popularity to two New Testament characters, both highly revered as saints. The first was John the Baptist, the forerunner of Jesus Christ, who was beheaded by Herod Antipas. The second was the apostle John who was also supposedly the author of the fourth Gospel and Revelation. The name has been borne by 23 popes, as well as kings of England, Hungary, Poland, Portugal and France. It was also borne by the poet John Milton and the philosopher John Locke.

YAHWEH Usage: Theology

A name of the Hebrew God, represented in Hebrew by the tetragrammaton ("four letters") Yod He Waw He, transliterated into Roman script Y H W H. Because it was considered blasphemous to utter the name of God it was only written and never spoken. This resulted in the original pronunciation being lost. The name may have originally been derived from the old Semitic root hwy meaning "to be" or "to become."


LOCKE

Locke means Stronghold , for the foritified enclosure
Origin: Old English

I had a difficult time finding info on this name, but found the philosophy of a certain "John Locke" mentioned above VERY interesting. www.planetpapers.com/Assets/4112.php (http://www.planetpapers.com/Assets/4112.php)

...a state of perfect freedom to order their actions, and dispose of their possessions and persons, as they think fit, within the bounds of the law of nature, without asking leave, or depending on the will of any other man.” (Locke, 1980, p.81)

The State of Nature is ruled essentially by human nature. Liberty, equality, self preservation, reason, and property are the most prominent principles that Locke feels are innate to humans. Locke explains how nature intended for all men to be equal,

“...creatures of the same species and rank, promiscuously born to all the same advantages of nature, and the use of the same facilities should be equal amongst another...” (Locke, 1980, p.8)

Or www.humanities.mq.edu.au/Ockham/z3612.html (http://www.humanities.mq.edu.au/Ockham/z3612.html)

Here is a definition of the name "Locke" from a game:
groups.yahoo.com/group/egr-list/message/86 (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/egr-list/message/86)

The name Locke is given to the servants of the warlords of Ur who are of the once-living. Locke D'Averam, means literally, once-living slave of the house of Averam. Tendrik, ruler of Ahkuilonthrough his mystic adviser Sardok has called forth this man, who remembers nothing of his former life, and given him the name Locke D'Averam. A revenant is a living man, but one in which emotionssuch as empathy and love are stripped away. He is a shell, without soul or passion, only dimly remembering what it was once like to be
human, that is if he can remember such things at all...

BOONE

The meaning of the name Boone is: Good

The origin is: French

All I could find -DANIEL

From the Hebrew name Daniyel meaning "God is my judge". Daniel was a Hebrew prophet whose story is told in the Book of Daniel in the Old Testament. He lived during the Jewish captivity in Babylon, where he served in the court of the king, rising to prominence by interpreting the king's dreams. The book also presents Daniel's four visions of the end of the world. Famous bearers of this name include English author Daniel Defoe, Swiss mathematician Daniel Bernoulli, and American frontiersman Daniel Boone.

SHANNON

SHANNON Usage: English Meaning: wise one, river name


From the name of the Shannon River, the longest river in Ireland. It is composed of the Gaelic elements sean "old, wise" and abhann "river".


CLAIRE

Origin: Latin, Greek
Spelling Usage: FRENCH

Meaning: Bright, Shining, Clear

Medieval name derived from Latin clarus "clear, bright, famous". Saint Clare, a follower of Saint Francis of Assisi, left her wealthy family to found the order of nuns known as the Poor Clares. This is also the name of an Irish county which was named for the Norman invader Richard de Clare (known as Strongbow), whose surname is derived from an English river.

SAWYER

SAWYER Usage: English

From a surname meaning "sawer of wood" in Old English. It was used by Mark Twain for a character in his novel 'The Adventures of Tom Sawyer'.

TOM
Short form of THOMAS. Tom Sawyer was the main character in several of Mark Twain's novels.

THOMAS

Greek form of the Aramaic name Te'oma which meant "twin". In the New Testament he was the apostle who doubted the resurrected Jesus. According to tradition he was martyred in India. Famous bearers of this name include philosopher and theologian Saint Thomas Aquinas, philosopher Thomas Hobbes, inventor Thomas Edison, American president Thomas Jefferson, and novelist Thomas Hardy.

CHARLIE

CHARLIE Usage: English

Pet form or feminine form of CHARLES. This is the name of a character in the comic strip 'Peanuts' by Charles Schulz.
CHARLES Usage: English, French

From the Germanic name Karl, which was derived from a Germanic word which meant "man". The most noteworthy bearer of this name was Charles the Great, commonly known as Charlemagne, a king of the Franks who came to rule over most of Europe. Other famous bearers include naturalist Charles Darwin who revolutionized biology with his theory of evolution, and novelist Charles Dickens who wrote such works as 'Great Expectations' and 'A Tale of Two Cities'.

MICHAEL


From the Hebrew name Miyka'el which meant "who is like God?". This was the name of one of the seven archangels in Hebrew tradition and the only one identified as an archangel in the Bible. In the Book of Revelation in the New Testament he is portrayed as the leader of heaven's armies, and thus is considered the patron saint of soldiers. This was also the name of nine Byzantine emperors and a czar of Russia.

WALT

Short for Walter Origin: Old German

Meaning: Powerful Warrior, Ruler of Army

From a Germanic name meaning "ruler of the army", composed of the elements wald "rule" and heri "army". A famous bearer of this name was Sir Walter Scott, a novelist from Scotland and the author of 'Ivanhoe' and other notable works


VINCENT

Means: Conquering

From the Roman name Vincentius, which was from Latin vincere "to conquer". This was the name of several saints. The postimpressionist painter Vincent van Gogh was a famous bearer of this name.

SAYID

Meaning: Master

- Still have not been able to find much on this name

HURLEY


Hurley: Sea Tide – Fish Name

JIN

Meaning: Gold, Truth, Treasure, Pearl

SUN

Meaning: Goodness

[MonsterEatsPilot]

Now this is all VERY interesting. A lot to digest -- I will be watching each of these characters very closely to see if their actions reveal more of their names.

Good work Dstorm7 and to all...

Cheers!

[Dstorm7]

Thanks! I need to go back and read just to see what I make of it all myself.

[dude21009]

Hmmm... regarding Boone: you found Daniel, of whom famous name bearers include Daniel Dafoe, etc.

I believe Dafoe wrote Robinson Crusoe.

[JacksGirlfriend]

I think we have to concentrate on the significance of Boone itself. Daniel just happens to be Daniel Boone's first name but nothing significant to this character so forget Daniel entirely.

The name Boone by itself could be important if our Boone decides to take in his head to explore or settle elsewhere. Daniel Boone loved to travel and live where very few others lived. A true pioneer.

The only other Boones I can think of are Pat (let's not go there please) and Richard.

Richard was an actor who played in an old TV western and his character was called "Paladin". He was a hired gun and had a calling card that said "Have Gun, Will Travel". Although he sounds like a bad guy, he was actually a champion of right. A paladin is a hero, a white knight.

We've already seen Boone has a fascination with the gun. I don't know if that has any significance here but I see him more as Richard Boone's character, a champion of right and protector of the innocent. If this is the case, they certainly wouldn't name a character "Paladin", but Boone is a rather obscure reference to it.

[dude21009]

well, now he lives out in the "Boone-ies" :rollin

[MonsterEatsPilot]

I found this interesting.

Kate clearly called him "John" when they were attacked by the boars.

I think we are indeed onto something...

-P

[Radworld]

I like the speculation it seems that we may be on to something.

Although its not a perfect match I was thinking that Kate may equate to Catherine The Great. I'm not to schooled in her but I know she was a very strong female in a male dominatied society. Which KIND of fits...Any other Kates...Catherines that I'm not thinking of?

[lostinasheville]

"Sayid" is also a term of respect applied to a muslim who is a direct descendant of the prophet Muhammed.

I'm not a muslim, but I remember this from the movie, Not Without My Daughter. The Iranian husband is yelling at the American wife, that they are Sayids- direct descendant of Muhammed. But he pronounced it "Say-id", not "Sigh-eed".

I found the definition on the web.

[Myzty]

Dstorm,

Perhaps you cant find much under "Sayid" because it is spelt wrong? Have you tried searching under "Saeed" or "Syed"?

And lostinasheville is right. "Syed" is also a term of respect (ergo for descendants of Mohd PBUH).

"Saeed" is also a name meaning refer to my previous post.

[MonsterEatsPilot]

First, I apologize for the length of this post but I think perhaps I have uncovered something concerning the Monster and the Nature of the Island. Based on our mention of John Locke I began to think of his peer, Thomas Hobbes.

I would like to share (hopefully briefly but probably not) some of Hobbes' philosophy which I think might apply to Lost.

The following you are about to read is from Hobbes' famous work LEVIATHAN. As we have seen that the writers of Lost like to use double meanings in their titles (Walkabout for instance?) the meaning is not lost on me. Leviathan through the ages has also represented a beast, a monster. Let us put the 2 together...

Hobbes' masterpiece LEVIATHAN set out his ideas with great clarity. He argued that people want to live in peace and security and to attain this they must organise themselves into communities for protection. Since there will always be some in the community who cannot be trusted, people must set up a government with their authority to make and enforce laws necessary to protect the community. It is, Hobbes argues, the rational way for people to behave so moral behaviour is rational. Although Hobbes was himself a Christian, these arguments were seen as many as removing the need for God as the giver of moral code, for Hobbes argues that it follows by reason alone.

But now, let us look at a key passage from LEVIATHAN that I believe will give us some insight into the "monster"...

This is from the First Chapter -- Of Sense (and I do apologize for ye olde English. I have also edited for brevity):

The cause of sense is the external body, or object, which presseth the organ proper to each sense, either immediately, as in the taste and touch; or mediately, as in seeing, hearing, and smelling: which pressure, by the mediation of nerves and other strings and membranes of the body, continued inwards to the brain and heart, causeth there a resistance, or counter-pressure, or endeavour of the heart to deliver itself: which endeavour, because outward, seemeth to be some matter without. And this seeming, or fancy, is that which men call sense; and consisteth, as to the eye, in a light, or colour figured; to the ear, in a sound; to the nostril, in an odour; to the tongue and palate, in a savour; and to the rest of the body, in heat, cold, hardness, softness, and such other qualities as we discern by feeling. All which qualities called sensible are in the object that causeth them but so many several motions of the matter, by which it presseth our organs diversely. Neither in us that are pressed are they anything else but diverse motions (for motion produceth nothing but motion). But their appearance to us is fancy, the same waking that dreaming. And as pressing, rubbing, or striking the eye makes us fancy a light, and pressing the ear produceth a din; so do the bodies also we see, or hear, produce the same by their strong, though unobserved action. For if those colours and sounds were in the bodies or objects that cause them, they could not be severed from them, as by glasses and in echoes by reflection we see they are: where we know the thing we see is in one place; the appearance, in another. And though at some certain distance the real and very object seem invested with the fancy it begets in us; yet still the object is one thing, the image or fancy is another. So that sense in all cases is nothing else but original fancy caused (as I have said) by the pressure that is, by the motion of external things upon our eyes, ears, and other organs, thereunto ordained.

But the philosophy schools, through all the universities of Christendom, grounded upon certain texts of Aristotle, teach another doctrine; and say, for the cause of vision, that the thing seen sendeth forth on every side a visible species, (in English) a visible show, apparition, or aspect, or a being seen; the receiving whereof into the eye is seeing. And for the cause of hearing, that the thing heard sendeth forth an audible species, that is, an audible aspect, or audible being seen; which, entering at the ear, maketh hearing. Nay, for the cause of understanding also, they say the thing understood sendeth forth an intelligible species, that is, an intelligible being seen; which, coming into the understanding, makes us understand. I say not this, as disapproving the use of universities: but because I am to speak hereafter of their office in a Commonwealth, I must let you see on all occasions by the way what things would be amended in them; amongst which the frequency of insignificant speech is one.

Now this is interesting, no? This struck me as a plausible explanation as to the origin of "the monster" or as I like to call it now "the leviathan."

But I read further, and now here is Chapter 2 of LEVIATHAN -- Of Imagination

THAT when a thing lies still, unless somewhat else stir it, it will lie still for ever, is a truth that no man doubts of. But that when a thing is in motion, it will eternally be in motion, unless somewhat else stay it, though the reason be the same (namely, that nothing can change itself), is not so easily assented to. For men measure, not only other men, but all other things, by themselves: and because they find themselves subject after motion to pain and lassitude, think everything else grows weary of motion, and seeks repose of its own accord; little considering whether it be not some other motion wherein that desire of rest they find in themselves consisteth. From hence it is that the schools say, heavy bodies fall downwards out of an appetite to rest, and to conserve their nature in that place which is most proper for them; ascribing appetite, and knowledge of what is good for their conservation (which is more than man has), to things inanimate, absurdly.

When a body is once in motion, it moveth (unless something else hinder it) eternally; and whatsoever hindreth it, cannot in an instant, but in time, and by degrees, quite extinguish it: and as we see in the water, though the wind cease, the waves give not over rolling for a long time after; so also it happeneth in that motion which is made in the internal parts of a man, then, when he sees, dreams, etc. For after the object is removed, or the eye shut, we still retain an image of the thing seen, though more obscure than when we see it. And this is it the Latins call imagination, from the image made in seeing, and apply the same, though improperly, to all the other senses. But the Greeks call it fancy, which signifies appearance, and is as proper to one sense as to another. Imagination, therefore, is nothing but decaying sense; and is found in men and many other living creatures, as well sleeping as waking.

Cool, huh? And then I kept reading...

The decay of sense in men waking is not the decay of the motion made in sense, but an obscuring of it, in such manner as the light of the sun obscureth the light of the stars; which stars do no less exercise their virtue by which they are visible in the day than in the night. But because amongst many strokes which our eyes, ears, and other organs receive from external bodies, the predominant only is sensible; therefore the light of the sun being predominant, we are not affected with the action of the stars. And any object being removed from our eyes, though the impression it made in us remain, yet other objects more present succeeding, and working on us, the imagination of the past is obscured and made weak, as the voice of a man is in the noise of the day. From whence it followeth that the longer the time is, after the sight or sense of any object, the weaker is the imagination. For the continual change of man's body destroys in time the parts which in sense were moved: so that distance of time, and of place, hath one and the same effect in us. For as at a great distance of place that which we look at appears dim, and without distinction of the smaller parts, and as voices grow weak and inarticulate: so also after great distance of time our imagination of the past is weak; and we lose, for example, of cities we have seen, many particular streets; and of actions, many particular circumstances. This decaying sense, when we would express the thing itself (I mean fancy itself), we call imagination, as I said before. But when we would express the decay, and signify that the sense is fading, old, and past, it is called memory. So that imagination and memory are but one thing, which for diverse considerations hath diverse names.

Wow! Well, I'm not sure about you but this reveals alot of information to me (plus it is good stuff to know). I am indeed sorry for posting in such length but this did indeed come across this as too much of a coincidence to ignore.

Do we think this warrants a new thread or should we just continue our conversation here?

Interested to know what all of you read from this.

Here endeth the lesson.

Cheers!

-Purrkins

[lily myoneandonly]

i dont think sayid is hiding anything and not divulging his real name, because in "walkabout" the envelope with the pictures of the woman in it is addressed to sayid. the person who sent it to him, possibly the woman in the pictures, must have known him well (well enough to know of his connection with the woman) so why would they address it 'mister'? but perhaps the meaning of his name as 'master' has something to do with his character

[ashinn]

The other characters seem to think Jack is a "Jack of all trades.":p

[jjabramizeme]

interesting about boone. i am wondering if he will be one of the two leaders when they begin to split into two camps. This could help the Daniel Boone/ "he goes his own way" theory. I am guessing that jack will lead a group inland for water and boone will try and convince people to stay on the beach.

Someone mentioned this already but I definitely think there's some connection that Kate is reminiscent of Katherine from Taming of the Shrew. So far we've only seen her with men who try and "tame" her (the farmer, the marshall, sawyer, even Jack to a certain extent). She's a strong, ballsy, opinionated woman, just like Katherine.