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truffula
11-23-06, 04:04 AM
An Analysis of Danielle Rousseau
*transcripts were taken from Spooky's transcripts except for the French Transmission translation which came from Lostpedia*

Now lets analyze what we know, piece by piece through all the lies and inconsistencies from this woman:

DANIELLE: You just happened to hear my distress call? I know what you are.

Danielle knows that the transmission can/should only be able to be recieved by the Hanso Foundation. I don't think she' knows about the contents of the crate in the Arrow bunker (the transciever). The "I know what you are" implies that she thinks he's a member of THF, not DHARMA, but THF. She changed the transmission in hopes that the Foundation would come to her aid, but after several years, I think she gave up hope and realized that the Foundation didn't care about her, and was her enemy like Ben and the Others. More indication of this here:

SAYID: Rousseau.
DANIELLE:How do you know my name?

Before Sayid can answer, she's already suspicious of how he knows her name. Perhaps she knows of the Others liking for the making of Lists. This fuels her notion that he's a Hanso mole.

SAYID: What is this place? Those batteries -- they wouldn't be able to produce enough power to transmit your distress call all these years.
DANIELLE: It broadcasts from somewhere else. But they control it now.
SAYID: They?
DANIELLE: You. And the others like you.

Another indication that she was a member of DHARMA. The radio tower was set up to transmit the core factors of the Valenzetti equation, controlled by DHARMA. But once DHARMA realized they were being used by THF for whatever means, there was an "incident" a split in groups (I detail this in my Others vs OTHERS thread), thus "they" control it now. And the following statement "You and the others like you" - meaning THF moles. Another thing, if THEY controlled it now, don't you think they would've gotten rid of her distress call?

SAYID: I didn't know you were alive.
DANIELLE: Still lying.

She's really convinced that he's a Hanso Operative, and that he knew she was still alive (Hanso probably kept accurate records of who was sent to HIS Island). She knows they "watch"/gather intelligence from outside the Island (we've seen their ability to do this with Jack's file and the knowledge of Sayid being Iraqi and Sun's full name)

DANIELLE: It's a music box, but it's broken. It has been for a long time. It was a gift from my love for our anniversary.
SAYID: You mean Alex?
DANIELLE: Robert. This was such a comfort to me in the first few years here.

This is a test. She's not an idiot. She could've fixed that music box if she wanted to. She wanted to gauge Sayid's ability as well as his personality. Also, dropping a name "Robert", allegedly her husband who she later killed.

And now the biggest lie of them all. The "Story". They're good at this. Remember Ben's quote to Ethan and Goodwin as he sent them to the crash sites of flight 815 "Make up a story", not to mention Ben's "my name is Henry Gale and I'm from Minnesota" story. Also in TLE, the Hanso Foundation is very good at coming up with "cover stories" as they trick innocent villagers into being unwilling test subjects for their worldwide virus "So when you go in, you have to keep up the story. You know it by heart. Don't waiver".

DANIELLE: We were part of a science team.
SAYID: A science team armed with rifles? Was Robert on the team?
DANIELLE: Yes.
SAYID: And Alex, was he, too?
DANIELLE:Our vessel was 3 days out of Tahiti when our instruments malfunctioned. It was night, a storm, the sounds. The ship slammed into rocks, ran aground, the hull breached beyond repair. So, we made camp, dug out this temporary shelter. Temporary. Nearly 2 months we survived here, 2 months before --

First off, if I had some dude calling my daughter a "HE", I would've made that correction immediately. I guess that's just part of the writers keeping us in suspense. Nevertheless....here comes one of the BIGGEST incinsistancies in Danielle's story:

- "The ship slammed into rocks and ran aground" WHERE? If the Black Rock can survive all this time, surely a ship like the one Rousseau's team was on would've been visible at some point? I mean, Kelvin was able to salvage Desmond's small sailboat, it sure sounds like Rousseau's ship was a little bit larger than that (for an alleged team of 6 people). So I say - THERE WAS NO SHIP. She was ALREADY THERE as a member of DHARMA. Perhaps it was even her pregnancy that caused Ben and crew to pay closer attention to her. They seem to want the children with NO MOTHER (according to Alex, they were gonna kill Claire once they had Aaron)

- "Nearly 2 months we survived here" - so she was 7 months pregnant when they "arrived" and they "took" Alex within a week of her birth.

SAYID: Your distress signal? The message I heard, you said, "It killed them all."
DANIELLE: We were coming back from the Black Rock. It was them. They were the carriers.
SAYID: Who were the carriers?
DANIELLE: The others.
SAYID: What others? What is the Black Rock? Have you seen other people on this island?
DANIELLE: No, but I hear them. Out there, in the jungle. They whisper. You think I'm insane.
SAYID: I think you've been alone for too long.

This whole thing here is one big LIE. Not to mention she dodges some questions too. Lets start with "we were coming from the Black Rock" - she knows of this place, and I strongly believe that the overhead map that we call "Rousseau's Map" is actually MAGNUS HANSO's Map that she took from the Black Rock and made additional notations on.

Now there was much debate as to the translation of Danielle's "distress transmission", in French, both "he" and "it" could be put in as part of the translation. In Danielle's quote above, she refers to "IT" - "it was THEM". The "carriers" if she means sickness, is a LIE; however, they could be the carriers of something else, like a superhuman gene (I know I know, I want this to tie into HEROES so bad :p)

And the dodged questions "What Others?" "What is the Black Rock?" - she doesn't want to give up that information so readily. She knows who the "others" are, and she sure as hell knows what the Black Rock is. Even a quick "the Black Rock is a massive slave ship in the middle of the jungle" would bring forth too many questions for her to deal with, so she remains silent. I'm not sure she knows the extent of the history of the Black Rock, only that its there and that Magnus Hanso was involved. It could even be the revelation of what the Black Rock means to the Island (in terms of Hanso's objectives vs DHARMA's objectives) that caused the split. Danielle's transmission says that they were coming from the Black Rock when they came for her and her team. This is probably where Montan lost his arm. Some sort of battle between factions.

The BIGGEST LIE OF THEM ALL: "Have you seen other people on this Island?" - "NO, but I hear them whisper". What a bunch of LIES!!! She's seen other people on the Island for sure. Especially cause I consider her a former DHARMA scientist. She knows Ben, probably Juliet too; hell, the reason Ben and Juliet aren't "on the same page" could be because of Ben's ousting of Rousseau and DHARMA. When she captured Ben, she KNEW him, and what he was capable of doing in the lying department. They're all very good at deception in one way or the other. The shanty town, the hillbilly clothes/fake beard, the pacemaker, Rousseau's explanation of how she got to the Island, etc. You get my point.

But within this LIE there is some truth - the WHISPERS. She's trying to help him, but not directly. She's playing both sides I think. She very well could've explained the ENTIRE situation to Sayid in this first encounter, but then we wouldn't have alot of show left if they answered all this right away. :p I think the WHISPERS are part of the "good guys" not Ben's crew, and have been trying to help the Losties in what little capacity they can for now.

[They hear sounds outside and Danielle picks up a rifle and heads to the hatch.]
SAYID: Where are you going?
DANIELLE:If we're lucky, it's one of the bears.

"One of the bears" she says. She knows there are more than one. Another indication she was aware of DHARMA's projects. I even suspect SHE was the one who let the bears loose in the first place; once she found out what was REALLY going on. Perhaps part of her escape plan to release the bears to create an extra distraction for those trying to find her.

DANIELLE:The firing pin has been removed. Robert didn't notice it was missing, either -- when I shot him.
SAYID: But you loved him.
DANIELLE: He was sick.
SAYID: Sick?
DANIELLE: It took them, one after the other. I had no choice. They were already lost.
SAYID: You killed them.
DANIELLE: What would have happened if we were rescued? I couldn't let that happen. I won't.
[Sayid throws the rifle down.]
SAYID: I'm not sick.
DANIELLE:I know.

Okay, big question here - WHAT took them? There is NO SICKNESS. That is a cover story. The only explanations I can think of is either she's talkin about Smokie, or they drugged up Danielle on whatever it was they drugged up Claire with so she wouldn't remember (the icky stuff in the canteen). Though Rousseau was alot more suspicious at this point so they probably increased the dosage compared to what they gave Claire.

"What would've happened if we were rescued?" - Hanso would be exposed, and this is a very wealthy and powerful man with many global connections namely Paik and Widmore (Paik confirmed in TLE, Widmore is pure speculation on my behalf). He's kept his "Island project" a secret for so long, he'll be damned if he's gonna let this French woman screw it all up for him. Danielle still believes there is a "sickness", she bought into their story in every way. She's gonna need proof otherwise before she changes her opinion on this one.

And how would she know Sayid wasn't "sick"? Because she's not on the psychotropic drugs that the Hanso foundation produces that would make her hallucinate and be easily coerced into the belief of some "sickness". But the mental impact of those drugs has convinced her that there IS a "sickness".

DANIELLE:Your people -- the one's you're determined to get back to -- watch them, watch them closely.

Correct she was on this one. And this advice paid off. Sayid was the one to notice Michael's odd behaviour and suggest to Jack that he had been compromised. She knows about the Others capabilities to infiltrate and obtain information. I really hope that Danielle and EyePatchGuy are in cahoots and are good guys. That would be so cool. :)

Now, in her brief conversation with Hurely in "Numbers" she does the same routine, alot of lies with a little truth buried in there if you know where to look:

HURLEY: Look, I came here to find -- [he reaches for his pocket; Danielle aims her rifle] oh, easy, easy, easy. I'm just getting your notes. Please, tell me why you wrote this. What do these numbers mean? Please.
DANIELLE: I don't know.
HURLEY: What? You don't know? Okay, that thing in the woods, maybe it's a monster, maybe it's a pissed off giraffe, I don't know. The fact that no one is even looking for us, yeah, that's weird, but I just go along with it because I'm along for the ride, good old fun time Hurley. Well guess what? Now, I want some friggin' answers.
DANIELLE [lowering her rifle]: Our ship picked up a transmission -- a voice repeating those numbers. We changed course to investigate. After we shipwrecked my team continued to search for the transmission source. It was weeks before we found the radio tower.
HURLEY: There's a radio tower on this island?
DANIELLE: Yes, up by the Black Rock. Some of us continued to search for the meaning of those numbers while we waited for rescue. But then the sickness came. When my team was gone, I went back up to the tower and changed the transmission.
HURLEY: The distress signal we heard?
DANIELLE: Yes.
HURLEY: But the numbers -- did you ever find out anything about them? Do you know where they got their power?
DANIELLE: Power?
HURLEY: They bring bad stuff to everyone around you. They're cursed. You know that, right? The numbers, they're cursed.
DANIELLE: Numbers are what brought me here. As it appears they brought you. Since that time I've lost everything, everyone I cared about. So yes, I suppose you're right. They are cursed.

This right here is one of the biggest tips to the reveal of the Numbers meaning in TLE.

Danielle doesn't know what the numbers mean - they can't figure out how to change any of the variables. Then she lies. Continues the story about her ship picking up a transmission that only Hanso can recieve. I suspect what Lenny and Sam heard at their listening post was Rousseau and crew attempting to figure out how to change the transmission. It took them a while; they probably had some resistance - Danielle's transmission was recorded at the radio tower itself where she'd locked herself in saying "they are outside". So the broadcast was now able to be heard by others outside of THF if they knew where to look or were (un)lucky to stumble upon them, until Danielle successfully changed the transmission.

Now she starts to give away more than she should have : (the location of the radio tower) "up by the Black Rock"..."some of us continued to search for the meaning of those numbers (the core factors of the Valenzetti Equation) - then the "incident" occurred. Somehow Ben/Jacob and crew figured out that eventually through whatever it was they were doing, that Rousseau and crew were going to figure out that they'd been duped.
"But then the sickness came" - they began to drug her (much like Ethan did to Claire in her sleep). And in a very short time, she killed them all....did the Others dirty work. "We're not killers" says Ben (in I forget what episode). They manipulate.

And this here SCREAMS of the Valenzetti Equation:

HURLEY: But the numbers -- did you ever find out anything about them? Do you know where they got their power?
DANIELLE: Power?
HURLEY: They bring bad stuff to everyone around you. They're cursed. You know that, right? The numbers, they're cursed.
DANIELLE: Numbers are what brought me here. As it appears they brought you. Since that time I've lost everything, everyone I cared about. So yes, I suppose you're right. They are cursed.

"The Numbers are what brought me here" - TRUTH - but not as you said. You were brought there to change one of those Numbers, Danielle. It's time to end the lie. And of course they're CURSED!!! They are the core factors in an equation that predicts the end of humanity!!

So after this, she disappears until Exodus, where she tries to help the Others plan in an effort to rejoin them or at least be reuinited with her daughter.

DANIELLE: Our ship went aground on this island 16 years ago. There were 6 of us -- my team, 6. At that time I was already 7 months pregnant. I delivered the infant myself. The baby and I were together for only 1 week when I saw black smoke -- a pillar of black smoke 5 kilometers inland. That night they came -- they came and took her -- Alex. They took my baby. And now, they're coming again. They're coming for all of you.

Again, LIES. Here is where the timeline just doesn't add up.
7 out of 9 months pregnant, yet she delivered the baby herself?? From her previous story to Sayid, it took "THEM" weeks to find the source of the transmission, and even after that the remaining members were trying to figure out the Numbers. Sorry, Danielle, you blew this cover story. Also, "THEY" came and took her....um....I thought you said you didn't see anyone else on this Island?? Again, this whole shipwreck story is a great big LIE.

The Hanso Foundation and DHARMA were recruiting the worlds greatest minds for this project - altering the Valenzetti Equation - in the Orientation film, Alvar states that "after your induction counseling and training, you and your colleagues will be shipped to a Top Secret facility" - so she technically isnt lying about being "shipped" there, just the "shipwrecked" part is a bunch of bull.

Oh, and "5 kilometers inland" - gee, you're pretty good a gauging distance. We see more examples of this in the future...

Then she comes to warn them about the "Others" coming for them ALL!! Whoah, what a scare tactic!

JACK: How many of them are there?
DANIELLE: I told you all I know.
SAYID: There has to be more you tell us. How did you know?
DANIELLE: You have a bigger problem. I can vanish into the jungle, but I'm just one person. You have 40 people. Where will you hide them?

Yeah, yeah, yeah,....run, hide, or die. Nice ultimatum. "I told you all I know" - LIE. And then she dodges the question again, but also leads them to the discovery of whats inside the Swan "Where will you hide them?" she says. After that they show her the dug up Swan Hatch. She wants them to know about DHARMA and their history. She wants them on HER side when she eventually tries to rescue her daughter. And what's next? Of course, she shows them how to open the door to the Swan with the Dynamite. She could've just shown them the front door, but its all part of the psychological challenge (I assume some aspect that DHARMA was studying about the human condition, oh yes, that's the word - HEURISTICS).

Now they show Danielle the dug up Swan Hatch:
[We see Danielle, Jack, Hurley, Locke and Sayid at the hatch.]
HURLEY: Dude. Whoa.
DANIELLE: What is this?
JACK: We were hoping you could tell us.
HURLEY: Uh, question -- how do we know we can all, like, fit in there?
LOCKE: No handle on the outside, means there must be another way in -- another entrance means space.
SAYID: This is a mistake. We don't know anything about these others. We're reacting with no information, no intelligence. This hatch might even be theirs. Black smoke on the horizon doesn't mean they're...
DANIELLE: It means they're coming.
JACK: Yeah, we got that.
LOCKE: You booby-trapped your shelter with explosives. You have any more?
DANIELLE: Dynamite, by the Black Rock, in the dark territory.
HURLEY: Well, that's 3 reasons to go right there.
DANIELLE: If we're to make it back by sunset we have to leave within the hour.

"What is this?" - yeah right. Nice try. And she's really quick to cut off Sayid about the significance of the black smoke of the horizon. Again, she demonstrated her knowledge of distance on the Island by saying that to make it to the Black Rock and back to the Swan before sunset they'd have to leave soon - so she KNOWS about BOTH locations. Oh, and this whole "Dark Territory" is just a scare tactic to keep the Losties from exploring that region and finding things that could hinder her plan to get back at Ben/THF for taking her child/kicking her out

[They come to a piece of black fabric hanging from a branch.]
DANIELLE: Le Territoire Fonce.
JACK: The Dark Territory.
DANIELLE: The Black Rock is not far. This is where it all began -- where my team got infected -- where Montan lost his arm. We must move quickly.

This is where THF said we're taking them out. Replace the word "infected" with "attacked" and that fits alot better. So what, we're to believe that this location where Montan loses his arm began the spreading of this "infection"? All of a sudden his arm was so infected that it had to be cut off? I highly doubt that. The Black Rock seems to be a protected object if it's located in this "Dark Territory"....the only reason it was unguarded was because they WANTED them to see it, to get the dynamite to get into the Hatch. Just like they WANTED Sayid to find the decoy village. They have a MASTER PLAN.

[We hear the sounds of the monster and see Arzt running around. Danielle runs into a bamboo stand.]
DANIELLE[motioning to Kate and Jack]: Here, in here.
HURLEY: Dude, we've got to book.
LOCKE: Wait. It's headed the other way.
[The rain stops.]
DANIELLE: We're safe now.
KATE: What was that thing?
DANIELLE: It's a security system.
JACK: Security system? What does that mean?
DANIELLE: It's purpose it that of any security systems -- to protect something.
KATE: Protect what?
DANIELLE: The island.

First sign that she knows what she's dealing with - she motions to Jack and Kate as if she knows a safe place or way to hide from Smokie. Then she identifies it as a Security System that protects the Island. How does she know so much about it? Because as a former member of THF/DHARMA (pre-split) she's well aware of what it is and what it does. I believe Ben's group has no control over Smokie anymore. Perhaps at one point, when they created it they did (and for all we know, Rousseau (a scientist) could've had a hand in its design); and the "release" or loss of control of Smokie is another event linked to this "incident" mentioned by Dr. Candle in the Swan Orientation film, which could be the result of the split between DHARMA and Hanso.

Now we get to some of the good stuff :D Aka - Ben's "capture" by Danielle.

SAYID: What are you doing here, Danielle?
DANIELLE: Looking for you.
Not looking for "one of you" (she's met Locke and Jack too), no, she wants Sayid in specific to be the one who sees "Henry" all trapped in her net first. She's had a chance to evaluate Sayid to a more fuller extent than the other Losties, and if I'm right, and Ben's "capture" was all a big plan....
SAYID: Where are we going? You said you were looking for me -- what was your plan -- to hide in the woods hoping I would pass you by?
DANIELLE: I was going to wait until dark and find you at your tent.
SAYID: Why? [he stops]
DANIELLE: We need to keep moving.
SAYID: Not until you tell me where we're moving to.
DANIELLE: Trust me.
SAYID: The last time we met you arrived to warn us the Others were coming which they weren't. In fact, it was a diversion to kidnap Claire's baby. So pardon me for not trusting you.
DANIELLE: This place I'm taking you to -- there's something that will help you -- something important. As for trust, take this. [she offers her rifle which Sayid takes] If I'm lying it's yours to use.

More proof she was coming for Sayid in specific as she says she was hoping to wait til dark to get him.

Yes, I believe Rousseau set the fire. She was once one of them so she knows some of their tricks, like how to not leave tracks or "disappear into the jungle" without a trace. She didn't just set the fire to scare the Losties into thinking the Others were coming for Aaron, she was also signaling to Ben and crew that the raft with Walt on it was going to set sail and now was their chance to get him. She's desperate to be reunited with her daughter. At that point, she demonstrated to Ben that she was willing, in a way, to cooperate with them again. So perhaps they met with her and made a "deal" with her. Unfortunately I don't think they'll live up to their end of the deal. I speculate that Ben (or a representative for Ben) told Danielle that if she followed instructions that they would let her back into the fold and reunite her with her daughter. Much like the "deal" that Miss Klugh/Ben struck with Michael. Do you REALLY think that they just LET Michael and Walt just LEAVE? I seriously doubt that. Regardless of what Michael did, Walt knows too much about what's going on, and if that were to get out....well....it would be bad news for THF.

Then she says that "there's something that will help you, something important" - okay, its Ben, the "leader" of the Others (as we assume for the time being until we find out who Jacob is). How is having Ben going to help them? She knows he's not gonna talk, she's trying to convince Sayid that this guy is a bad guy/an Other, when really the plan is for Ben to get in and get up close and personal with some of the Losties, namely Jack and Locke. He's willing to take the beatdown from Sayid to get the info he wants to eventually convince Jack to do the surgery, as well as "work" Locke as well - I'm convinced they want Locke too, but he's gonna be a little harder to get seeing as the OtherOTHERS/Havid givers/controllers of Smokie/the WHISPERS/ANTI-HANSO remnants of the original DHARMA are already helping him see the truth. If he wanted to merely observe, he could've easily done so from the Pearl (or elsewhere for all we know), no, he wanted to get hands on. Rousseau shooting him with the arrow was part of the deal too (imagine this scenario: BEN "okay okay I took your daughter and cast you out, you can shoot me with an arrow when I try to run away. Remember its gotta look believable though." - Ben knows she's a good shot otherwise she wouldn't have let her do it - just picture Locke teaching Walt to throw the knife "see it before it happens, in your minds eye" - Danielle did this as she precisely hit Ben as to not critically wound or kill him.

Now Sayid encounters Ben trapped in Danielle's net:

BEN: Help me!
DANIELLE: Don't believe a word he says.
BEN: Hey!
DANIELLE: He's one of them.
BEN: I have no idea what she's talking about. She's crazy.
SAYID: How long has he been up there?
BEN: Since last night. Please, just cut me down. My name is Henry Gale. I'm from Minnesota. Please.
DANIELLE: He's lying.
SAYID [pulling out his knife]: I'm going to cut him down.
DANIELLE: Don't.
BEN: Thank you.
DANIELLE: You're making a serious mistake.
SAYID [after cutting him down]: It's okay; it's okay. You're alright. Hold on. Take it easy.
[Danielle prepares her cross bow. "Gale" sees her.]
BEN [running]: No.
SAYID: Wait. Danielle, don't!
[Danielle shoots Gale in the shoulder. Sayid runs to him.]
SAYID: You could have killed him.
DANIELLE: If I wanted to kill him, I would have killed him.
SAYID: You shot this man with no provocation.
DANIELLE: He is one of them. Tie him up. You should take him to your doctor. He's no good to you dead.
SAYID [tying him up]: And then what?
DANIELLE: You talk to him, Sayid. As I recall that is what you do. But know this -- he will lie -- a long time. He will lie.

"Don't believe a word he says, he's one of them" - she says this with such certainty as if she knows Ben. Okay, I admit the "striking a deal" bit I mentioned before is a bit of a stretch, but I'm just goin with the flow here :p Point being this again proves that she lied to Sayid in the first place when she said "No, I've never seen other people on this Island". Bull. You seem to be pretty sure about Ben being an "other", Danielle. You also seem to know he's good at lying, like the lies he told them/DHARMA and the "story" of the sickness that he used to get Danielle to kill her team and surrender her baby.

"You should take him to your Doctor, he's no good to you dead" - yeah that and I imagine it would've begun an all out attack on the Losties headed by Pickett had Ben died at the hands of Danielle there. Like she said, if she wanted him dead, she could've done the deed. So now she's lived up to her end of the bargain and got Ben back to the Swan to check up on things and evaluate Jack and Locke. But like I said, she's playing both sides of the coin here, so next she hints at Aaron being sick so that Claire would attempt to remember what happened to her.

CLAIRE: You spent all that time with her when you went out to the Black Rock. You must have talked about something.
KATE: Just about her ship crashing here -- her and her research team getting stranded.
CLAIRE: What happened to them?
KATE: They died.
CLAIRE: How?
KATE: Tracks are gone -- trail ends here.
CLAIRE: Kate, how did they die?
KATE: She killed them.
CLAIRE: What? Why, why would...
DANIELLE [appearing]: Because they were infected. You believe me now, don't you?
CLAIRE: I want you to take me back there.
DANIELLE: Back?
CLAIRE: To where I scratched you.
KATE: Claire.
CLAIRE: No, okay, she knows I remember! I remember a lot of it now. I remember the room, the medicine, a teenage girl. Okay, so don't lie to me and make out you don't know what I'm talking about. My baby is sick and you're going to take me back there to get what he needs. Right now!
DANIELLE: It's not far from here.

Everyone is buying into her shipwrecked story, and until she can prove otherwise, she's still spreading the Others "panic story" about this "sickness". She intentionally left tracks for them to find her. She knows what Claire is going to want to see, and she also knows the location of the Staff, as I suspect she's been in there before but too drugged up to remember. Perhaps she's hoping that if Claire can regain memory of what they did to her, than she might be able to as well, but alas she does not.

[We see Kate, Danielle, and Claire walking through the jungle. Danielle stops.]
CLAIRE: Why are we stopping here?
DANIELLE: This is where you scratched me.
CLAIRE: But there's nothing here.
DANIELLE: Where do we go next?
CLAIRE: Why are you asking me that? You need to tell me where to go.
DANIELLE: Where is this room?!
CLAIRE: How can you be saying that? You grabbed me, that's why I scratched you -- because you were taking me back to them.
DANIELLE: Is that what you think? You said you remembered! That's why I brought you here. You lied! [she grabs Claire]
KATE [pointing her gun]: Hey, get your hands off of her!
[Claire walks off, and Danielle approaches Kate until the barrel of the gun is up against her chest.]
DANIELLE: Go ahead, please. Do it.

Danielle wants proof that Claire remembers more. She's hopeful that if Claire can coherently remember then there is a possibility she might remember as well. Danielle knows where the Staff is, that's why she stops Kate from interfering as Claire discovers it; and remote chance of Claire remembering details (it kinda pays off a little as Claire tells Danielle about the teenage girl (Alex) who helped her escape.

CLAIRE [walking]: I know this is it.
KATE: Claire!
DANIELLE: Leave her alone.
KATE: Excuse me!
DANIELLE: Let her look.
KATE: Look for what? Claire! Claire!

Also, she's a good judge of character. From her experiences with Kate so far, she assesed that she's not the killing type and pulls the "go ahead, shoot me now" bit knowing full well Kate won't shoot her.

Now that all of her dialogue has been analyzed, lets go back and look at her little "distress transmission":
"If anybody can hear this, they are dead. Please help us! I'll try to go as far as the Black Rock (http://www.losttv-forum.com/wiki/Black_Rock). It [or He] killed them. It [or He] killed them all. It [or He] is outside. It [or He] is outside and Brennan took the keys. Please help us. They are dead. They are all dead. Help us. They are dead."

Like George Carlin ripped apart the airline safety lecture, I will do the same here.

Lets start at the beginning - "If anybody can hear this" - as a member/former member of DHARMA, Danielle is aware that the transmissions from the radio tower can only be recieved by the Hanso Foundation. I mentioned before that her team (what was left of it) had to do something to alter the transmission signal so that it could be recieved outside THF. They succeeded because "if anybody can hear this" means she has hopes that someone besides THF will hear her transmission.
The next two things she says conflict with each other - "they are dead. Please help us" - now, later she adds "they are ALL dead". My question is this - who is this "US" she refers to? "Please help US" implies that she's not alone. But if THEY are ALL DEAD, how is there still an "US"?

"I'll try to go as far as the Black Rock" - now this sounds like she's giving her location away. Who knows where the Black Rock is? Whoever drew the Blast Door Map sure does. Also, THF knows, as Magnus' arrival on the Island (somehow) on the Black Rock is IMO what began the legacy of the Hanso's on the Island. There has to be someone else who knows the location of the Black Rock that she was hoping would hear this transmission. Could it be Eye-Patch Guy?

Now I'll look at this both ways, the "HE" translation and the "IT" translation, for the next part.

Lets start with "HE" - "He killed them, he killed them all. He is outside." Well we know of one guy who has the killing attitude - Pickett. But Ben has professed "we're not murderers". So who did the killing if we're talking about a "HE" here? Someone also had to kill the REAL Henry Gale too, buried him as well. So if Ben's group isn't doing the killing, who is? Answer - Ben is LYING AGAIN about the killings. Ethan was in Ben's crew, he killed Scott and tried to hang Charlie. Okay, Ben may not have killed Henry directly, but he and his crew aren't above a little murder if they deem it necessary.

Now for the "IT" version - "It killed them, it killed them all. It is outside." The first thing that comes to mind is Smokie. But now another question I have is who was it that was killed here? From what Danielle said, SHE killed her team because they were sick, so who does that leave? Unless of course Danielle was LYING about her team, and there were more than 6 of them, and NO shipwreck. She was a member of a much larger community of DHARMA scientists - that's who was killed. This was THF's final attempt to wipe out the opposition (those DHARMA scientists who realized they were duped and the whole project was a scam to get them to further the "Hanso Initiative" (whatever that might end up being)). This also begs the question - who, if anyone, is controlling Smokie now? If it is what "killed them all" then at that point it was under THF's control in a sense, but now, it seems to be helping the Losties in a way (appearing to Jack and leading him to water, helping Locke find the Pearl, etc) very similar to what I think Danielle is kinda doing. She's just not telling them the whole story....yet.

This final part I've been itching to get at this whole time - "It/He is outside. Brennan took the keys" - we've covered the He/It outside, it's BRENNAN/Brandon/Brendon and the KEYS that I want to discuss here. Goin on the belief that Danielle was a member of DHARMA, I believe the KEYS she's referring to are the DHARMA FAILSAFE KEYS for the stations (at least the Swan).

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e41/truffula/Random%20Pics/FAILSAFEKEY.jpg

Brennan failed because THF/Ben's crew were able to regain the keys and reinstate the projects, only with their guidelines, not those originally intended by DHARMA. Radzinsky was probably one of the first "new" recruits/test subjects.


In closing, I believe I have proven that Danielle Rousseau is a liar who knows alot more than she's telling, and was/is a member of the DHARMA Initiative.

By all means we have many weeks to kill here.....please....
Discuss On. :D

Peace,
Truff

RoseArienh
11-23-06, 04:26 AM
Very nice, Truff! Lies can be as revealing as the truth, once you figure out which is which. I have admire Ben, who makes an art of lying, from the get-go, and now you're making me think Danielle is made of the same cloth. I never actually trusted her, but I still don't know who's side she's on, except her own.

Fierro
11-23-06, 12:56 PM
I also believe she is not telling the truth.

LostViking
11-23-06, 03:41 PM
Great job Truff. I have long thought the whole Danielle capturing and then shooting Ben incident was faked. I still don't understand why she started to assemble her "hidden" crossbow while Sayid is standing there with a gun..unless it was all planned.

Makes me wonder if a French science expedition really did crash - but there were no survivors. Or maybe there were but they weren't "good".

Echo
11-24-06, 08:05 AM
Great job, Truff!

DANIELLE: The Black Rock is not far. This is where it all began -- where my team got infected -- where Montan lost his arm. We must move quickly.


One thing I was thinking when I read this, and I'm sure it's been brought up before, but Montan lost his arm? Sounds like Candle/Wickmund. Also, I wiki'd Montan and came up with Montan wax. Wax, candle, wick. Weird.

Anyways, I also think that Brennan could be Radzinsky? Brennan Radzinsky? Maybe not. That would explain how Desmond got the key, and it would also back up the theory that Radzinsky/Inman were Dharma loyalists, and why Ben thinks that place is "a joke."

truffula
11-24-06, 03:42 PM
Great job, Truff!



One thing I was thinking when I read this, and I'm sure it's been brought up before, but Montan lost his arm? Sounds like Candle/Wickmund. Also, I wiki'd Montan and came up with Montan wax. Wax, candle, wick. Weird.

Anyways, I also think that Brennan could be Radzinsky? Brennan Radzinsky? Maybe not. That would explain how Desmond got the key, and it would also back up the theory that Radzinsky/Inman were Dharma loyalists, and why Ben thinks that place is "a joke."
Thanks Echo! :)

I had thought that "Brennan/Brandon/Brendon" was Radzinsky too, but if I'm correct and the notebook from which Kate read from after discovering the other end of the Pearl "airshaft", is a mention of Radzinsky, his first name doesn't begin with a "B": (from spooky's transcript)

KATE [reading from the notebook]: 0400: S.R. moves ping-pong table again.

So maybe Steve Radzinsky, or Scott Radzinsky, or Sceve Radzinsky :p

I think Kelvin was given the failsafe key when he "joined" the DHARMA Initiative. Now, consider that this is already after the original projects/scientists had been ousted, and this was all part of Ben's plan, the "Hanso Initiative".

truffula
11-24-06, 09:49 PM
I mentioned in my other version of this thread about Danielle's possible knowledge or lack of knowledge of the Staff.
We don't know for sure that the staff was one of the original "stations"
In Alvar's Orientation film, we see the Swan and Pearl logos when he mentions the research stations, so we KNOW for sure that at least those two were two of the original stations, what their original intent was (aside from changing the Valenzetti Equation) remains a mystery. But of the 6 things mentioned by Dr. Candle in the Swan Orientation film:

meteorology, psychology, parapsychology, zoology, electromagnetism, and utopian social

A Med Hatch doesn't seem all that likely. Obviously they'd need some sort of "hospital" for emergencies and such, but a hidden bunker in the middle of the jungle?
No, that has something to do with the kids, and the fact that Juliet is a fertility Doctor.
The children are VERY important to the "Hanso Initiative" I think, but I just can't put my finger on how yet.
Besides, "Dr.Candle's" Swan film was made AFTER the INCIDENT, so who knows if anything he says in there can be trusted.

Is it also possible that there are more than 6 stations, only films for 6 of them were required? The Blast Door Map indicated that there might be more than 6 (though one was scribbled out).

I'm starting to confuse myself here, so I shall stop now :p

littlelabrynth
11-25-06, 01:29 AM
This is a really good theory. I have always believed Danielle's story, but I also know how things are not always what they seem. You really made me think about Danielle's actions and her possible history. Much of what you speculated could turn out to be true; however for now, I am going to continue to believe Danielle's stories. Although, I will probably over analyze her actions now. Anyway, a few thoughts on your post.


Now lets analyze what we know, piece by piece through all the lies and inconsistencies from this woman:

DANIELLE: You just happened to hear my distress call? I know what you are.

Danielle knows that the transmission can/should only be able to be recieved by the Hanso Foundation. I don't think she' knows about the contents of the crate in the Arrow bunker (the transciever). The "I know what you are" implies that she thinks he's a member of THF, not DHARMA, but THF. She changed the transmission in hopes that the Foundation would come to her aid, but after several years, I think she gave up hope and realized that the Foundation didn't care about her, and was her enemy like Ben and the Others.



I agree with much of this statement except for the part that Danielle was originally a member of DHARMA located on the island. I have always believed her story that she was part of a science expedition that shipwrecked on the island 16 years ago. I believe that Danielle and her crew were sent to the island to try to reestablish THF's control on the island. Danielle thinks Sayid is one of Ben's group of Others.

We know that there was an "incident" before 1980 and according to the Blast Door Map, there was a HG (Hanso Group?) delegation inspection on 7 December 1981 and there is a reference to a MDG/AH incident in 1985. I think that something significant must have happened in 1985 that caused a major split in loyalties.

In the TLE, according to Hugh McIntyre on Jimmy Kimmel, The Hanso Foundation officially stopped funding DHARMA in 1987. This was probably a corporate image move and not a personal decision for Alvar Hanso. We know that craphole island was too important to Alvar Hanso for him to just forget about it. I think that he sent out an expedition team of scientist armed with rifles to try and reestablish control of the situation on the island. A group of scientist armed with rifles makes alot of sense if they are being sent into a hostile environment to try and reestablish control of scientific experiments. Therefore...Danielle and her team in 1988.


DANIELLE: It's a music box, but it's broken. It has been for a long time. It was a gift from my love for our anniversary.
SAYID: You mean Alex?
DANIELLE: Robert. This was such a comfort to me in the first few years here.


This is a test. She's not an idiot. She could've fixed that music box if she wanted to. She wanted to gauge Sayid's ability as well as his personality. Also, dropping a name "Robert", allegedly her husband who she later killed.



Before Danielle shows Sayid the music box, she had been going though his backpack. She had asked him about the picture of Nadia and tried find out more about her, but Sayid changed the subject. As she begins questioning him again, Sayid states that he left the group because he was ashamed of something he did.

DANIELLE: Lies! Nothing about this plane crash which you survived. You claim there were others?
SAYID: More than 40.
DANIELLE: Then why are you alone?
SAYID: I left them.
DANIELLE: Why?
SAYID: There was -- I did something, something I'm ashamed of.
DANIELLE: But Nadia, you left her too?
SAYID: She wasn't on the plane. She's dead -- because of me.
DANIELLE: I'm so sorry. I want to show you something.
Thanks, Spooky. (emphasis added)

Danielle softened considerably after Sayid made this statement. Perhaps it struck a nerve in her because she remembered that she was responsible for the death of her own beloved Robert.

When Danielle captures and questions Sayid, I know it seems like she is being awful elusive, but in her situation, I wouldn't answer too many questions either. Knowledge is power, and if Sayid had been an Other, then he could have been gathering information to use against her or to see how much she knew/remembered.



Nevertheless....here comes one of the BIGGEST incinsistancies in Danielle's story:

- "The ship slammed into rocks and ran aground" WHERE? If the Black Rock can survive all this time, surely a ship like the one Rousseau's team was on would've been visible at some point? I mean, Kelvin was able to salvage Desmond's small sailboat, it sure sounds like Rousseau's ship was a little bit larger than that (for an alleged team of 6 people). So I say - THERE WAS NO SHIP. She was ALREADY THERE as a member of DHARMA. Perhaps it was even her pregnancy that caused Ben and crew to pay closer attention to her.


I think Danielle and her crew shipwrecked on the island pretty much the same way that Desmond did. The description she gives sound very similar to what we saw with Desmond. She then goes on to say that the hull was breached "beyond repair." Just because Desomond's boat was repairable, does not mean that Danielle's ship was. Because the ship was unrepairable, the crew probably salvaged as much from the wreckage as possible and used it to build their temporary shelter.

DANIELLE:Our vessel was 3 days out of Tahiti when our instruments malfunctioned. It was night, a storm, the sounds. The ship slammed into rocks, ran aground, the hull breached beyond repair. So, we made camp, dug out this temporary shelter. Temporary. Nearly 2 months we survived here, 2 months before --
Thanks, Spooky. (emphasis added)



SAYID: Your distress signal? The message I heard, you said, "It killed them all."
DANIELLE: We were coming back from the Black Rock. It was them. They were the carriers.
SAYID: Who were the carriers?
DANIELLE: The others.
SAYID: What others? What is the Black Rock? Have you seen other people on this island?
DANIELLE: No, but I hear them. Out there, in the jungle. They whisper. You think I'm insane.
SAYID: I think you've been alone for too long.

This whole thing here is one big LIE. Not to mention she dodges some questions too. Lets start with "we were coming from the Black Rock" - she knows of this place, and I strongly believe that the overhead map that we call "Rousseau's Map" is actually MAGNUS HANSO's Map that she took from the Black Rock and made additional notations on.



I think Sayid had it right when he said that she had been alone for too long. I'm sure that 16 years alone on an island would take its toll on anybody's social skills. Danielle also seems to have possible memory issues (think Claire's amnesia). I think that she has suppressed alot of things she has experienced on the island. I keep waiting for a Danielle flashback where we find that she had a very similar experience to what Claire experienced.

When Danielle first meets Sayid, she is very untrusting. As she talks to him and deems him trusting, IMO, Danielle developes an attachment to Sayid. She believes that they have something in common. This attachment and trust is why Danielle searched out Sayid when she captured Ben.

We know that Ben is very good at being manipulative, getting inside peoples heads, and pressing peoples buttons. I very seriously doubt Danielle would have been able to effectively question Ben herself about the whereabouts of Alex considering the kind of psychological torment he would be able to subjugate her too. Ben is GOOD at mind games. I would have went looking for Sayid, as well.


DANIELLE:The firing pin has been removed. Robert didn't notice it was missing, either -- when I shot him.
SAYID: But you loved him.
DANIELLE: He was sick.
SAYID: Sick?
DANIELLE: It took them, one after the other. I had no choice. They were already lost.
SAYID: You killed them.
DANIELLE: What would have happened if we were rescued? I couldn't let that happen. I won't.
[Sayid throws the rifle down.]
SAYID: I'm not sick.
DANIELLE:I know.

Okay, big question here - WHAT took them? There is NO SICKNESS. That is a cover story. ..

"What would've happened if we were rescued?" - Hanso would be exposed, and this is a very wealthy and powerful man with many global connections namely Paik and Widmore (Paik confirmed in TLE, Widmore is pure speculation on my behalf). He's kept his "Island project" a secret for so long, he'll be damned if he's gonna let this French woman screw it all up for him. Danielle still believes there is a "sickness", she bought into their story in every way. She's gonna need proof otherwise before she changes her opinion on this one.


If I were Danielle and I had seen my entire crew and my husband grow so "sick" that I felt I needed to kill them because of what would've happened if we were rescued, I very seriously doubt I would be worring about what Alvar Hanso and his precious global connections would think. I believe the "sickness" is real.

truffula
11-25-06, 04:01 AM
You always have such nice detailed replies, LL, me likee :D

Lets see here....

I believe that Danielle and her crew were sent to the island to try to reestablish THF's control on the island.
Good point. Something I neglected to consider in my theory in certain areas was the timeline. This will give me something to reevaluate in the coming days for sure.
Let me see if I understand what you're getting at here.
Danielle and her science team were sent by Hanso to regain control of the DHARMA projects gone awry because of Ben. Now that I think about it, besides manilulating and lying, what exactly is Ben's job? What is his role in the grand scheme of things?
It sounds like you're implying that Ben was once a member of Hanso's Group on the Island but got big headed and found a way to cut out Alvar and take on things his way (or Jacob's way, but thats another topic entirely :p). So Alvar sends this covert team to try to recapture the Island. Only question I have here is, if this was a team sent to reestablish THF's control, why only 6 people? I would think Alvar would send a larger group, especially knowing the number of folks already inhabiting his Island.

In the TLE, according to Hugh McIntyre on Jimmy Kimmel, The Hanso Foundation officially stopped funding DHARMA in 1987
That interview was worth squat IMO as far as the storyline facts in TLE are concerned. Those questions weren't prepared, nor were his answers, and I know this for a fact. So I take that 1987 reference with a grain of salt.

I think that he sent out an expedition team of scientist armed with rifles to try and reestablish control of the situation on the island. A group of scientist armed with rifles makes alot of sense if they are being sent into a hostile environment to try and reestablish control of scientific experiments. Therefore...Danielle and her team in 1988
Again I ask, why only a team of six people? I think the six people she's talkin about are the ones who agreed that what Ben was doing was wrong and they needed to get out.

But you're right though, the timeline just doesn't add up the way I have it laid out. The "incident" took place sometime in the late 70s, and I linked that to Danielle leaving Ben's group. So lets examine the timeline a little here:

- 1975 - Alvar Hanso films the Orientation film for the DHARMA Initiative to change the core factors of the Valenzetti Equation, and the projects on the Island begin (the Swan and Pearl at least in some capacity)

- 197?? - The "Incident" - whatever it was it changed the original protocol of DHARMA (the Valenzetti Equation). This I believe is where the original DHARMA scientists realized they were duped and were all disposed of. Remember, the Hanso's have been there alot longer than DHARMA. The Island was just a place for DHARMA to "work". So now Ben/Jacob and crew take over and continue to maintain the illisuon that business is as usual. The transmission stays the same, and THF still sends new recruits.

- 1980 - The "revised" Swan and Pearl Orientation films are made, noting the "incident" in the Swan film. In the Swan Orientation film, Dr. Candle outlines the NEW goals of "DHARMA": meteorology, psychology, parapsychology, zoology, electromagnetism, and utopian social...(othersville). Alvar clearly states that the purpose of DHARMA was to change one of the core facotrs of the Valenzetti Equation, yet Candle makes no mention of it. Why? Because Dr.Candle is working with Ben/Jacob and not Alvar.

- 1988 - Danielle Rousseau and her husband Robert, along with a select other few, discover the true purpose of "the Hanso Initiative", realize they've been duped and attempt to escape. One of them sets the Polar Bears free as a distraction and they make it to a hidden shelter where they survived for two months before....it was time for Danielle to give birth. They wanted Alex really bad for some reason. So of course her friends try to protect her, and the Others got aggressive (and cut off Montan's arm as a warning). Then, much like Ethan's threat to Charlie about killing them one by one until he got Claire, they killed off the remaining traitors, leaving Robert to defend for his life, much like Kate trying to save Sawyers life attempting to convince Jack to do Ben's surgery, so Danielle said he was "sick", not physically ill, but sick in the head like Ben, and gave her the "Danielle, we need to give Alex to Ben. Its for the best".

SAYID: She wasn't on the plane. She's dead -- because of me.
DANIELLE: I'm so sorry. I want to show you something.
Thanks, Spooky. (emphasis added)

Danielle softened considerably after Sayid made this statement. Perhaps it struck a nerve in her because she remembered that she was responsible for the death of her own beloved Robert.
And what's funny about this statement is that Sayid is LYING to her to soften her up, and he succeeded. Sayid isn't a Hanso spy, and he has nothing to hide, so he's trying to get as much info as he can (as he eyes the maps and later makes sure he takes them as he leaves).

We know that Ben is very good at being manipulative, getting inside peoples heads, and pressing peoples buttons. I very seriously doubt Danielle would have been able to effectively question Ben herself about the whereabouts of Alex considering the kind of psychological torment he would be able to subjugate her too. Ben is GOOD at mind games. I would have went looking for Sayid, as well.
Excellent point. She knows what Sayid is capable of, and deems him the best chance of getting answers.....or.....
They know about Sayid, that he is an Iraqi, most likely they have a file on him too. He was chosen. Ben was willing to take it to get closer to Jack (for the surgery) and Locke (for whatever reason).

It seemed to be one whole orchestrated plan. Have Rousseau create panic, Walt gets taken which sets off Michael. Through studies in the Pearl, they gather info on those who have been in the Swan - those on Miss Klugh's LIST - Jack, Kate, Hurley, and Sawyer. But not Locke. They have something else in mind for him, but that's gonna be a ways down the road before we learn anything about that. Then Danielle and Ben fake the "capture" so Ben can personally manipulate Jack and Locke, knowing full well that the faked the computer conversation with Michael to sucker him into walking into their trap will work perfectly (which it did). And yes, I believe that was NOT WALT that Michael was talking to on that computer.

If I were Danielle and I had seen my entire crew and my husband grow so "sick" that I felt I needed to kill them because of what would've happened if we were rescued, I very seriously doubt I would be worring about what Alvar Hanso and his precious global connections would think. I believe the "sickness" is real.
See, here is where part of TLE ties in....the psychotropic drugs that were tested in bevereges....okay in TLE we were all like SPRITE!! OMG!!! But this was 2006, and in 2004, where LOST is taking place, they probably havent figured out how to make it taste all "lymony" yet (thus Claire's comment about it being gross).

For some reason that scene in Batman Returns when they release the gas into the city and everyone starts hallucinating, and the Batman with red eyes and all.....they give Danielle somethin like this, she could see her crew/husband as all freaked out and sick and kill them.....later, once the drugs wore off, she realized what she'd done. Fallen for another THF ploy for someone else to do their dirty work.


I'm sure I'll have more to add later ;)

Peace,
Truff

aggiesean
11-25-06, 04:45 AM
For the most part, I LOVE where you went with this, truff. There are a few portions, however, that seem to me to possibly be a stretch.
First off, if I had some dude calling my daughter a "HE", I would've made that correction immediately.
With regard to Sayid calling Alex a "he" in "Solitary" (S1E9), as much as I love spooky's transcripts they neglect one key portion of this, IMO: The moment Sayid first called Alex a "he":

DANIELLE: You have a bullet wound.
SAYID: I was a soldier.
DANIELLE: You were. And are you still?
SAYID: That was a long time ago.
DANIELLE: Tell me more about her, the woman, Nadia.
SAYID: Alex -- Who is he?

At this point, the camera pans to Danielle, and Mira Furlan (whom I've loved as an actress since her Babylon 5 days) gives a look of confusion, then realization. This is when she realizes that Sayid had NOTHING to do with Alex's disappearance. Why not correct Sayid? For one thing, it's not important for her to make sure to, but also, this "Alex--who is he" question threw her off, I think. Her first hypothesis, that Sayid was part of those who took her daughter, was wrong, and she needed to regroup; thinking of correcting him then wouldn't necessarily be paramount.

"One of the bears" she says. She knows there are more than one. Another indication she was aware of DHARMA's projects. I even suspect SHE was the one who let the bears loose in the first place; once she found out what was REALLY going on. Perhaps part of her escape plan to release the bears to create an extra distraction for those trying to find her.
I'm sorry, but I find this a stretch. No science-minded person like Danielle (whether involved with DHARMA or not) would see a polar bear in a wildnerness setting (albeit not its natural one) and think it was the only one on the island. She would assume there had to be more than one for the survival of the species on the island.

Oh, and "5 kilometers inland" - gee, you're pretty good a gauging distance. We see more examples of this in the future...
I also find this a stretch. It's said more as in a hand-wave "about 5 kilometers" phrasing, like you or I would say "about 5 miles" to describe something not near enough to stroll to, but not so far it takes too long to get there.

I love your other ideas, though. Just wanted to bring up my concerns about tying these in. :)

:Cowdance:

lucky4me8
11-25-06, 05:10 AM
Great work - very comprehensive! I've had a couple of threads on Danielle on a different board and I can't resist chiming in whenever I hear her name. I'm in the minority of those who believe that Danielle has been telling the truth to the best of her ability, with many pointed omissions and some clever wording to misdirect us, but hopefully you won't mind that difference of opinion.

I've been thinking, as have you, that Danielle's team came to investigate the state of things on the island after whatever happened in 1985 with the MDG/AH incident. My theory is that there was a catastrophic incident with Smokey (as per the blast door map) that killed all (or almost all) the DHARMA scientists. They were never heard from again, in any case, and investigations were started. I don't know who the Others really are, of course, but I don't think that they're DHARMA leftovers.

Danielle says, "We were part of a science team." This indicates, imho, that the six in their crew were part of a larger delegation, possibly military, possibly international. Possibly other parts of the larger team arrived before or after Danielle's group.

If you look carefully, Danielle never says that she killed her team, or even that she killed Robert, only that she shot him and that "it" took them, one after the other. Sayid assumes that she killed all of her team members, a logical inference based on Danielle's transmission ("It killed them all"). But I think that what she may have meant by this is that the DHARMA scientists, who she came to check up on, were all dead when her team arrived. In her transmission, she's obviously addressing someone who is familiar with the island, who would understand who "they" were. She may have been trying to reach other parts of the team, those who hadn't reached the island yet (maybe they split up and each group was looking for it).

We know that she shot Robert, but she never says that she killed him. Her reference to the firing pin in his gun implies not just that he tried to shoot her first, but also that she anticipated this. Maybe her team started acting paranoid and crazy after they started having visions, and she assumed that they had a sickness, based on the other dead DHARMAites (possibly THEY were the carriers). Maybe she chained her team inside the Black Rock and left them for dead, but some of them got free (she never went inside the ship's hold). Some of them could have banded together and joined the Others (or become the Others), coming back to rescue Alex after the birth.

We also know that Brennan was still alive - he took the keys. Maybe he disappeared with them after betraying the team (I like the idea of him being Tom Brennan, Kate's boyfriend's father, and alive and well in Otherville, but that's another tangent). Maybe that's how she identified Ben as an Other who would lie for a long time - she recognized something about his behavior, or is just paranoid from that experience. In any case, I think some of the team is alive, but the question is, what were they doing to act so freakish that she thought "it" took them?

Anyway, just my two cents - sorry this got so long.:)

littlelabrynth
11-25-06, 07:21 AM
It sounds like you're implying that Ben was once a member of Hanso's Group on the Island but got big headed and found a way to cut out Alvar and take on things his way (or Jacob's way, but thats another topic entirely :p).

I'm not exactly sure of what I think about Ben right now except that I know he is definately big headed. I still believe as I did before that he infiltrated DHARMA somehow and I grew to enjoy his position of leadership immensely.

As for taking on things his own way...Jack wasn't even on Jacob's list.


So Alvar sends this covert team to try to recapture the Island. Only question I have here is, if this was a team sent to reestablish THF's control, why only 6 people? I would think Alvar would send a larger group, especially knowing the number of folks already inhabiting his Island.If Alvar did send an expedition team to try and recover control of the island, we don't know for sure how large or small of a team he may have sent. There could have been several ships in the fleet and only Danielle's ship crashed on the target island. The others could have been lost in the storm or thrown off course. However, I don't like this explanation because it ignores the fact that Danielle is 7 months pregnate when she is shipwrecked.

If Danielle and her crew were the only ship that was sent to the island it could simply be a matter of that is how a special operations team usually operates. This would kinda allow for Danielle's pregnancy and being with her husband. They could have been top specialist in their field and an inseperable team. From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_operations):
Special Forces typically comprise relatively small groups of highly-trained soldiers who are armed and supplied with specialized equipment, and operate upon the principles of self-sufficiency, stealth, speed and close teamwork. See, here is where part of TLE ties in....the psychotropic drugs that were tested in bevereges....okay in TLE we were all like SPRITE!! OMG!!! But this was 2006, and in 2004, where LOST is taking place, they probably havent figured out how to make it taste all "lymony" yet (thus Claire's comment about it being gross).

Sorry...that's part of the TLE information that I usually do not consider relevant to the story line on the show LOST. However, once I started thinking about it, I remembered a few details about Dr. Hackett and the psychotropic drug.

Transcripts from Lostpedia (http://lostpedia.com/wiki/Dr._Hackett):

We know that Dr. Hackett worked for the EDC as far back as 1988. We have this received this document about Project Sumo:CONFIDENTIAL MEMORANDUM
To: Dr. Kini, Lewis King Laboratories, AG
From: Dr. Hackett EDC 1554A
Date: March 10, 1988
Re: Doubleblind Data V,

The reformulation trials (Project Sumo) are progressing well. As always, we are slowed by patent lawyers who need too much information (you know the drill). Please send the results of the secondary doubleblind study as soon as they are compiled. Your work is proving fruitful (pun intended!) in establishing the proof that the original experimentation was confounded by the ridiculous implementation parameters established by our friends in copenhagen. Best -J cc: Dr. Perez
We also know that Dr. Hackett worked for Apollo Candy in 2004. This document was discovered:CONFIDENTIAL MEMORANDUM
TO: Dr. Hackett Apollo Candy
FROM: G. Downs Engineering Development Center Atlanta, GA
Date: July 21, 2004
RE: Test Study Dr. Hackett,

Initial research shows release of the psychotropic compound to be a success. The acid and flavoring agents of the beverage disguise :the taste. More tests are necessary to reach optimum viral spread. My superiors are eager for you to join our effort, once you have :extricated yourself from your current situation. G.
Also, Dr. Hackett was also mentioned by Mel0drama in a sign-language video, claiming that Hackett and Mittelwerk were fighting over the use of Apollo candy to distribute chemicals - the message suggests that Hackett left Apollo and took his research to Sprite. Of course, we do not have a time line for this event or even know for sure whether Hackett was still pro-psychotropic drug use distribution or if he had changed his stance on distributing them.

Well...we know that there are Apollo Bars on the island. There were some in the Swan's pantry and Boone even had one in the Pilot episode. I always thought that maybe the psychotropic drugs would sort of make one more suseptible to things such as havids. It is true that the drug could cause one to believe that everyone else around them is sick, causing them to believe there is nothing else that can be done except to kill them. But I really do not think that if the drug did that, it could be mass distributed around the world without causing massive bloody riots and political and social upheaval.

The "sickness" on the other hand, IMO, is something entirely different. I'm not sure what exactly, but I believe that it is a physical condition, not a psychological one. I'm not sure how reliable I want to consider this, but in Maternity Leave, Danielle shows up believing that Aaron is infected when he has a fever and rash.

I also believe that the vaccine is real. It is not a placebo. The Others vaccinated the baby when Claire was still pregnate; the Others injected some type of medication into J/K/S when they arrived on Alcatraz island; the inhabitants of the SWAN station vaccinated themselves (or at least we know for sure that Desmond did); there was a new vaccine kit that was delivered in the food suppy drop.

I'll have to think somemore on this psychotropic drug / vaccine thing. For now, I shall consider them different. But now I want to know why both are being sent to the island via air drop.

LostViking
11-25-06, 03:16 PM
Danielle says, "We were part of a science team." This indicates, imho, that the six in their crew were part of a larger delegation, possibly military, possibly international. Possibly other parts of the larger team arrived before or after Danielle's group.

Lucky4me8, I really liked your ideas here. I went back and relistened to Danielles conversation with Sayid and I have to say - you are right. She does say they were "part" of a larger delegation

S1E9 Danielle Danielle. My name is Danielle.
S1E9 Danielle We were part of a science team.
S1E9 Danielle Yes.
S1E9 Danielle Our vessel was 3 days out of Tahiti when our instruments malfunctioned. It was night, a storm, the sounds. The ship slammed into rocks, ran aground, the hull breached beyond repair. So, we made camp. Dug out this temporary shelter. Temporary. Nearly 2 months we survived here, 2 months before...
S1E9 Danielle We were coming back from the Black Rock. It was them. They were the carriers.


But I do think she says she killed her crew:
Danielle The firing pin has been removed. Robert didn't notice it was missing either when I shot him.
Sayid But you loved him.
Danielle He was sick.
Sayid Sick?
Danielle It took them, one after the other. I had no choice. They were already lost.
Sayid You killed them.
Danielle What would have happened if we were rescued? I couldn't let that happen. I won't.

You do make a good point - she never really states she killed them, but she doesn't deny Sayid's accusation.

littlelabrynth
11-25-06, 04:48 PM
you are right. She does say they were "part" of a larger delegation.

So if Danielle's team was part of a larger group, then I guess that means that the distress signal was meant for the rest of the expedition team. This would explain why she would say that "Brennen took the keys." The person(s) she expected to pick up her distress signal would have understood both who Brennen was and what keys Danielle was referring to.

So does that mean that Danielle and her crew were sent in first for recon and then they were supposed to signal to the rest of the expedition later? Or was Danielle's team the only one to survive the storm?

No one ever rescued Danielle from craphole island. I wonder if that is because no one ever heard her distress signal or because her signal was heard and it was deemed too dangerous to the health of the other expedition members to rescue Danielle.

sawyerhasbestlines
11-25-06, 06:23 PM
We know that she shot Robert, but she never says that she killed him.



I love this thread (as I said in the other forum) and all threads discussing Danielle, and Truff put together a nice one.

*tangent*

I'm a Danielle fan and thinks she omits for survival. And like your suggestion that she shot Robert, but maybe didn't kill him - I think is going to be a theme in the whole Lost story.

Sawyer's "not a killer" but thinks he killed the shrimp guy - but maybe he survived. Sayid feels he's responsible for Nadia's death, but as we see later in Locke's flashback, she's alive and buying a house. We still don't know if Christian is dead. Nobody seems to get autopsies.

If Danielle omits, it's because there are omissions in her perceptions, her memories, possibly interfered with by use of drugs. Like Claire.

Regarding sickness; I don't think there is a sickness. It's a story designed to control, the way Desmond was kept in the hatch. But Desmond believed it, and maybe once Danielle was told the story too and believed it.

****

Yet, I think there was some negotiating going on between Danielle and Benry. I would love to see the fb of her helping him into the net.

lucky4me8
11-25-06, 08:00 PM
Lucky4me8, I really liked your ideas here. I went back and relistened to Danielles conversation with Sayid and I have to say - you are right. She does say they were "part" of a larger delegation

But I do think she says she killed her crew:

You do make a good point - she never really states she killed them, but she doesn't deny Sayid's accusation.

Thanks, dweisspt. Danielle's story is a big piece of island mythology that hasn't been revealed, imho. She has so few lines, and I think the ones she does have are really carefully worded. I know it's picky, but I have to think that the fact that she never comes out and says that she killed her team leaves some wiggle room. Even if she thinks they're dead, or she left them for dead, one or more of them might still be alive, and it would add so much to the story if it were true. I think there were three skeletons chained up in the Black Rock, so maybe one or two team members got away and joined the Others. Just the fact that Alex is with the Others links them to Danielle.

Also, after she caught Ben in the net and shot him in the shoulder, she said something like, "If I wanted to kill him, I would have killed him." That's a really interesting and revealing line, I think. I think it tells us that she's not a killer. She has the ability, but she chooses not to kill. I wouldn't be surprised if she wounded Robert but didn't kill him.

She says that her team was "gone," not that they were dead. So I'm thinking that when she says, "They are all dead," and, "It killed them all," she's referring to the DHARMA scientists. Since they were all dead, maybe she assumed that the "sickness" killed them, and that it would inevitably kill her team, who were infected by the dead carriers. So maybe she shot Robert just to stop him from hurting her, and chained everyone up in the Black Rock, leaving them for dead? Although the idea of a woman eight or nine months pregnant overtaking a whole team is problematic. Hm. Maybe she drugged them with the same thing she used on Sayid?


I'm a Danielle fan and thinks she omits for survival. And like your suggestion that she shot Robert, but maybe didn't kill him - I think is going to be a theme in the whole Lost story.

Regarding sickness; I don't think there is a sickness. It's a story designed to control, the way Desmond was kept in the hatch. But Desmond believed it, and maybe once Danielle was told the story too and believed it.

****

Yet, I think there was some negotiating going on between Danielle and Benry. I would love to see the fb of her helping him into the net.

Me too!

DogMa
03-10-07, 09:08 PM
In light of the recent episode, i just have to :bump:this baby!

I love this thread and can't wait to see how everyone ties in Patchy's story of the Purge with Danielle.
I thought it was cool that they were both on the island when it occurred and both said they survived by avoiding certain situations.

Off topic for a second.
How cool would it be if Patchy runs through the fence and instead of electrocuting himself like everyone is speculating, he disappears! I dunno, maybe it's just me pushing for a little more Sci-Fi.:D
Plus, it would be kind of hard to electrocute your self on an electric fence when "Button Boy" blew up the electric company for the entire island.

Erratic Assassin
03-16-07, 12:03 AM
she was a member of DHARMA.

If Rousseau was a member of the Dharma Initiative, then why didn't she call BS on Patchy posing as a Dharma member? If she was Dharma she wouldn't have wanted to kill one of her own.

She instantly took him for an Other even though he was wearing a Dharma uniform. It seemed easy and natural for her to associate Dharma with the Others.

truffula
03-16-07, 02:36 AM
If Rousseau was a member of the Dharma Initiative, then why didn't she call BS on Patchy posing as a Dharma member? If she was Dharma she wouldn't have wanted to kill one of her own.

She instantly took him for an Other even though he was wearing a Dharma uniform. It seemed easy and natural for her to associate Dharma with the Others.
Why didn't she call BS on Mikhail? Good question.

The line between DHARMA and "the hostiles" is blurred in my opinion, because both groups are headed by Alvar Hanso, only that DHARMA was a long con (but that's for another thread :p).

Danielle KNEW that Ben was "one of them, one of the Others" when she turned him over to Sayid. Now, if you were her, would you not ask about your daughter if you caught one of her suspected captors in a net? I mean, why set up a bunch of net traps all over the jungle unless you were intent on catching someone.
No, instead of doing that, she turns him over to who? Sayid. Who Ben and crew knew was an Iraqi interrogator. Ben's "capture" was an elaborate plan by Ben and Danielle, and it looks like it worked. For what ultimate purpose, I'm not sure.

She didn't call BS on Mikhail when he said he was the last living member of DHARMA because she was not present at that time. She was waiting for them at the stream. But when she arrived, I detected that Mikhail recognized her voice as she approached. Her line "whatever he says will be a lie" is just put there to create confusion.
She knew he was an other because she's had prior contact with him.
I'd be willing to bet that she was responsible for the loss of his eye.

We didn't get enough out of her yet, Danielle, that is. I was hoping that Kate's "Can I ask you a question?" was gonna be a good one, but oh well. At least she's still hangin around. And I can't wait to see if any of the Others community recognizes her when they go strolling in to get Jack.

they see ALL
03-17-07, 04:02 AM
w0w, i have fallen in love with this thread :nanabobo:

great stuff, really...

anyway, next episode is going to be great (if danielle really was in cahoots with dharma / hanso)...


;)