+ Sonic Bloom: a thesis in four acts

[drabauer]

From the Lost Diaries, Day One:

"Remember sucking wind and noise – deafening noise. Head still ringing."

Danielle in "Solitary":

"I remember the terrible sound"

Imagine a deafening noise capable of guiding a plane to a safe landing, the French castaways to shore, Locke to his boar.

Imagine a technology so clean, so natural, so transparent that it leaves no trace behind.

Imagine the sound.

The sound within

Imagine descending into an Alice-in-Wonderland canyon where the echo that returns when you shout "hello" sounds like "olleh." No such sound-reversal canyons exist in nature. However, physicists in Europe and the United States have recently been creating environments in the laboratory and underwater that exhibit reversed echoing. ...
Such setups refocus sound with remarkable precision. When a person sings out "hello" in such an environment, the sound not only comes back reversed but it also beams specifically to the vocalist's head, and nowhere else.

These traits make time-reversed acoustics, as this technology is known, promising for a wide range of uses, including ... broadcasting different translations of a speaker to listeners sitting side by side.

Many environments bend and bounce signals around so much that they become severely distorted. ... an environment with many sound-bending and sound-reflecting obstacles actually improves a time-reversal mirror's projection of sounds back to a specific location. The more reflecting surfaces there are in the environment, the wider the spatial spread of the components of sound the mirror gathers. And that provides the mirror with more precise guidance for targeting the echo.
Mathias Fink of the University of Denis Diderot in Paris, France and some other scientists also expect that the same techniques may work in the electromagnetic realm, perhaps increasing the signal-carrying capability of wireless communication systems...
Getting more practical, scientists are considering such uses as auditorium systems that could simultaneously transmit completely different sound streams to people sitting right next to each other. This concept could be applied, for example, at the United Nations, where speeches must be simultaneously translated into many languages for different listeners. Instead of donning headphones, however, the UN delegates would simply hear the appropriate translation where they sit.

Similarly, family members traveling in a car might simultaneously listen to different radio stations.

Reversed echoes may fight disease and foster communication (http://www.sciencenews.org/20010106/bob8.asp)

[b]The sound that heals

For many years, scientists have been investigating the use of inaudible, high-intensity ultrasound for incision-free surgery but the hodgepodge of tissues in the human body distorts acoustic signals, making it difficult to precisely aim the acoustic energy.

That's where time-reversal mirrors can come in. For more than a decade, Fink's group has been developing versions of ultrasonic devices, known as lithotripters, for destroying mineral stones that can form in the kidney and gall bladder. First, the lithotripter's time-reversal mirror broadcasts unfocused sound into an organ to create reflections that reveal a stone's location. Then, the device sends a time-reversed form of the reflections, but greatly amplified, to shatter the target.

.... Emad S. Ebbini and his colleagues at the University of Minnesota in Minneapolis are also showing how such mirrors might be applied in medicine. They are investigating time-reversed ultrasound for two procedures: knocking out heart tissue that misfires electrically and destroying tumors.

Time-Reverse Acoustic Research Promises Medical Breakthrough (http://www.news-medical.net/?id=341)

The sound that searches

Another acoustically noisy environment where time-reversal methods are drawing attention is the ocean. ... William A. Kuperman of Scripps Institution of Oceanography in La Jolla became interested in time-reversed acoustics in the mid-1990s while working on a Navy-funded ocean-modeling project. His challenge was to devise computer models of ocean acoustics that would make it possible to take signals received at underwater listening posts and trace them back to their sources, for instance, enemy submarines. The advantage of doing it all on computers, he notes, is that no sonar pings are generated, so there would be nothing to tip off a target that it's being stalked.

The test results have been "spectacular," Kuperman says. "Time reversal is undoing the complexity of the ocean." From a distance of 10 kilometers, for example, the team refocused a sound pulse into a spot only a few meters in depth. ... Now that Kuperman and his colleagues have established how well ocean-based time reversal can work, they're investigating how to exploit time-reversed acoustics for detecting submarines and mines, developing a better understanding of the ocean environment, and communicating between undersea vehicles.

One of the nifty features of this communication scheme is that the information is covert, Kuperman says. "Off the focus, you get [only] rumbling."

TRM in Ocean Acoustics (http://www.mpl.ucsd.edu/people/wak/)
Applications of TR to Underwater Acoustics (http://www.nrl.navy.mil/content.php?P=04REVIEW77)

The sound that burns

Thermoacoustics (TA) is the study of the conversion of acoustic energy – compression waves in a gas (sound) - into heat energy and vice versa. Acoustic energy can be harnessed in sealed systems and used to create powerful heat engines, heat pumps, and refrigerators.Thermoacoustic devices use these compression waves*to replace mechanical pistons, crankshafts, and valves, reducing the number of moving parts in their design and making them simple, reliable machines. Thermoacoustic cryocoolers generally have two major sections to their design: an electroacoustic transducer (like a loudspeaker) and a coldhead.

Los Alamos Thermoacoustics Page (http://www.lanl.gov/thermoacoustics/)

[JacksGirlfriend]

dr: My most important question is: What on earth were you researching that you stumbled upon something like this?

I get the general drift of it. So what implications do you see for us? Do you think the entire island is a staging operation for these types of experiments? That perhaps the technology is uncontrollable? Do you think the experiments are being conducted even now?

We have strange sounds. If they're caused by this kind of experimentation, why do the effects seem so devastating?

I can't begin to imagine how something like this would be involved with such far-ranging consequences. It almost seems like a "gentle" technology. What's on your mind? Do you see something I don't?

JacksGirl

[Chance Gardener]

An intriguing line of speculation I agree. I knew of the kidney stones and heat uses. Knew about using reverse sound for cancellation of noise; headphones that block out machine noise but let in conversation are one of the results. However, broadcasting multiple signals to individuals in a crowd would be highly cool. Think of the interactive uses for gaming; say a murder mystery party or adventure hunt. Sweet.

This would also give a rational explanation for the "whispers" Danielle and now Sayid are hearing, though Danielle should have known the source if the French castaways were the creators of it.

Further, I doubt the writers know about this so I think it'll be unlikely that sound is the cause of this. Though a huge version of the kidney stone zapper could be used to create "sound stair steps" which could explain how the tail got ripped off and then the plane lowered step by step, though again, not really likely either. Why would the plane have been targeted? Wrong place, wrong time or someone or something on board that TPTB wanted them/it?

Still it is amazing that even now, strange and wonderful things are still being discovered even for something thought to be so thoroughly "understood" as acoustics.

[drabauer]

Thank you Chance! That is a lovely consideration of possible implications. JacksGirl, I don't really have any answers at this point. As someone for whom "sound" is a constant preoccupation, I have merely noted how important it seems to be at evey dramatic moment (with the notable exception of Jack's hallucination). I just wanted to put these ideas out there and see if they percolate for anyone.

More on this later . . .

[JacksGirlfriend]

I agree, dr. Sound is very important in the show. I guess I just didn't understand how what you posted, which seems to have such good implications, could in our world create such fear and chaos.

As usual, I'm hoping Pin will drop by because he's got the kind of mind that will be able to see a connection if there is one. I emailed him. Hope he shows because I'm interested to see if he spots something. (You know darn well I won't see it.)

JacksGirl

[drabauer]

Hope he shows because I'm interested to see if he spots something. (You know darn well I won't see it.)

AH you underestimate yourself JG!

A bit of a downer: saw my brother, an aerospace engineer, for the holidays. He told me he stopped watching Lost when he saw the flashback with the tail ripped off because there is absolutely no way the writers could EVER rationalize that!

[Yorke]

JacksGirl, I don't really have any answers at this point. As someone for whom "sound" is a constant preoccupation, I have merely noted how important it seems to be at evey dramatic moment (with the notable exception of Jack's hallucination).

Does this mean I might have to get a better speaker system or I might miss this stuff?:\
Hope I get a good bonus this year....

[SelfProjectRealized]

A bit of a downer: saw my brother, an aerospace engineer, for the holidays. He told me he stopped watching Lost when he saw the flashback with the tail ripped off because there is absolutely no way the writers could EVER rationalize that!

Your brother sounds like a lost cause if he would stop watching a show for such a stupid reason, but listen to this. I was watching a TV show about urban legends yesterday and it was talking about some urban legend where the window of a plane comes off and the person gets sucked out or something and they were trying to figure out if that ever happened. The answer was no, BUT, there was a time on a small plane where, just like on Lost, the fuselage depressurized, there was some engine malfunction and a piece of the back of the plane ripped off!!! I was like Holy Crap, that's EXACTLY what happened on the show! Not the most reliable source, I'll admit, but as far as I know, neither is your brother.

Side note: I really wish I lived 50/60 years ago when people weren't SO OBSESSED with realism in things like film and tv. Filmmakers had the luxury of being able to get away with very sensational, over-the-top FUN things, even just for effect if they wanted, and in the end, I think this luxury ADDED to the art form. Realism in today's film industry, in my opinion, only takes away from the overall quality of the movies/TV Shows that are coming out, because when a film is sensational, it's necessarily ABOUT that sensation, which is always less interesting than if a sensational universe is simply ever-present in the film world.

[drabauer]

Thanks SelfProject. Having just returned from "The Incredibles," I can only agree whole-heartedly! What matters is whether a fictional creation is true to the parameters of the world it sets up, and is written well enough to draw us into that world.

[leftofpunk]

From episode one

Remember sucking wind and noise – deafening noise. Head still ringing.

Wasn't that refering to the sound from inside the plane as it was crashing? Like when the tail section came off? I don't think that has anything to do with "what's" on the island at all.

I guess I could be wrong, but it doesn't feel like it.

[Wynter Zera]

This really is a cool theory and it does seem like sound is importaint.

[Chance Gardener]

Bringing this thread back to life, as I've a question.

When the monster was savaging the shrubbery (monster is the Knights of Ni????) it seemed the sounds being made were different this time around, compared to the first airing of the episode.

Is there a way to check to confirm/rebuke such a thought?

Oh, not a sound thing so I'll post more fully in the GD forum on the Pilot later, but it seemed to me the trees were going down by something "low", say no more than 10 ft high. Don't know if this was an intentional part of the special effects or an unfortunate side effect. Then again, perhaps my perceptions of the trees motions are too highly influenced by my own special frame of subjective perception that I cannot be considered an objective observer of such events.

But it looked like the Mach 5 was motoring around after Speed pressed the H button (it was the H button that activated the blades wasn't it?). Maybe the sound was the Mach 5 engine?

[JacksGirlfriend]

Chance - you make my head hurt.

JacksGirl

[TheBigCat]

Sorry, Doc, if this sounds grandiose, but I have to disagree with your brother. Catastrophic failure is rarely predictable since it generally results from engineers thinking that they have everything accounted for: "O-rings? It will never get that cold at the cape." Just a few years ago a MD-80 went down off SoCal because engineers mis-prescribed the preventive maintanence required on the horizontal stabilizer jackscrew assembly.

[JacksGirlfriend]

Is everyone around here smarter than I am?

JacksGirl

[TheBigCat]

Aparently you're smart enough to not go on and on about things that you have no idea of, so i'd say "no".

[JacksGirlfriend]

I'll just take that as a compliment and move along to the pseudo-science threads where I belong.

I do love reading the physics "stuff" but frankly I forget it the moment I leave the screen. It does make me appreciate the versatility of the people here though. It's amazing to me.

JacksGirl

[TheBigCat]

I must admit that I am stumped as to how a tailless airliner could descend from 30,000 ft to a few hundred and then break apart nose section from middle in a non-woogie universe. I think that this must just be one of those "suspension of disbeleif" moments that are required for the shows premise. I have already mentioned on the chat board why it is necessary for the tail to be the first thing gone, but I'll say it here for all to read. The CVR and CDR, the "black boxes" (actually they are hi-viz orange) are put in the tail section because that is the place where they are most likely to survive. With the tail breaking away first they are most likely in deep water which muffles EM emissions above 10hz or so. Therefore, searchers are not going to be able to find the plane by tracking the black box transponder. Since our castaways are over 1000 miles from where they are supposed to be, rescue is not bloody likely. Vola... Series Premise is born.

[JacksGirlfriend]

Yes I heard you say that in chat and meant to respond, but things get kind of chaotic in there at times. I'm sure I got side-tracked as usual. It was a good point though and glad you posted it. Don't waste theories in chat - always come here and write them down.

JacksGirl

[TheBigCat]

Will do.

[Chance Gardener]

Aparently you're smart enough to not go on and on about things that you have no idea of, so i'd say "no".
Was that a slam? I think that was a slam. I think the feline suffering from an excess of avoirdupois slammed us.

Well Tom, I'm not a smart man. (H2 reference there for anyone who watches that - best running gag in some time)

I have no doctorate in physics of any kind, this is true. Simple calculus strains me as well, though I've not revisited it for awhile now; maybe I should and see if 3rd times the charm? Those pesky integrals.

But.

I do know that sound is a wave. And a wave can be made to interfere with another wave in such a way that interesting things can be made to happen at the intersections and interferences. Since sound can move objects (heck light can move objects) it stands to reason that sound can support objects.

How?
See not physicist above.

But even this not quite smart enough sophont can envision such a thing. A sound generator that can lift, hold, lower objects with enough power (cable running to the ocean tied to a thermoelectric power grid say?) supplied to the generators.

Perhaps sound generators to create a hovercraft, with an ooooeeeooooo sound that knocks down trees so you don't crash as you tool around the island tracking polar bears?

Bet it would sound bitchin' gnarly if they found it and Hurley hooked his Walkman to it dood.

Besides, since I am experiencing cellular senescence, I have precious little else to do but post inane unresearched theories extrapolated from real world examples present in the world around us today. Please, I need your pity.

And your inane ideas

[drabauer]

Hey BigCat, a clarification (days after the fact).. my bro meant that one could never rationalize any SURVIVORS, not the accident itself. He could come up with no scenario in which any one or thing would survive.

And Chance, keep going; I got all tingly reading that last post (god help me I get my rocks off on the lost-tv boards these days ..)

I've got some more "sound" thoughts, but I don't want to post them until I get a recording to check. It would be great if someone could post an mp3 of some of these events (less bandwidth than video).

[v1p3r6]

the way the trees were moving in the first episode were probably from sort of sound device to scare of the other animals i guess. it was so powerful it shook the trees.

[TheBigCat]

Two things:

1) Chance, please include this unit is your "not smart" catagory. I am just as succeptable to talking, typing, etc. before thinking as the next tabby. Therefore, any percieved "slam" should include self as target. Still, the smartest person that I ever met never passed up an opportunity to prove his intelligence by keeping his mouth shut.

2) Doc, thanks for the clarification. I too have some difficulty in seeing how anybody could have survived such a crash. I am, therefore, willingly suspending my disbelief for the sake of an intrigueing story and holding out a vague hope for a plausible resolution to the quandary.

[Chance Gardener]

So, if no one talked. we'd all be smart? Hmmmmmm. So by not communicating, what we are really saying is that we are too smart for school. So since we don't really need schools, we should abolish school and reappropriate those funds earmarked for schools back into other more important societal needs, such as feeding the poor and clothing the unfortunates (like Paris Hilton). Then with the poor dealt with, we could turn our attentions back to space. First a base on the moon, with craft lofted into orbit with the standing wave sound generators. Then, on to Mars, using railguns to sling the craft components into orbit. We then send out probes (again, using moon based railguns) to the Oort cloud which then attach themselves to the comets there and have them herd them back to Mars. With Mars bombarded by comets, raising the water vapor level, we can then begin terraforming the surface and establishing a permanent presence on Mars. From there, we can then develop gas bag technology to create floating cities in the upper atmosphere of Saturn (mean temp is about 20 Celsius about 15-20K in if I remember correctly). These cities could (besides providing yet another home for mankind) process the gases in Saturn to fuel further exploration and provide needed materials for Earth. Then with all this, we could create craft (using mushbonding metal technology to resist 3000 atmospheres per square inch) to go into Jupiter's clouds beneath the methane layers into the layers that have organic compounds suitable for use as food (it would be like rich tasty bread) back on Earth to continue to feed the poor, who by now are not so poor.

If only I can keep my mouth shut.

But, if I keep my mouth shut, how will I please the ladies then?

[Black Dahlia]

First of all, everyone who cares please note that it is not a sound reversed in time that cancels itself out but the same sound that is 180 degrees out-of-phase. Sounds are waves, but they are rather complex on the quantum level, emanating out in three dimensions through trillions of bouncing particles, so it's easier to explain with loudspeakers (you can tell someone is authoritative when they prepend "loud" to "speaker.") Speakers usually have two wires going to them, positive and negative. We have two ears so we should get our sounds from at least two speakers. If you reverse the positive and negative wires on just one of the pair of speakers, they will be 180 degrees out-of-phase to each other and the music will sound like crap. That is because while one speaker move forwards the other is moving backwards the exact same amount, cancelling each other out. Not all sound ends up being entirely cancelled out, as you can still hear the higher frequencies, because of somehwat complex acoustical reasons that anyone here who would want to hear about would already know.


Secondly, I must say to all the naysayers about the survivability of the crash:

- Nobody saw the crash, so no one can estimate how survivable it was. You have made assumptions of what the resulting crash would be based on the damage to the plane in-flight and the fact that it ended up in at least three major pieces. The fact that there are major pieces should clue you in to the fact that the crash did not occur in the manner in which one would suppose it would based on the aeronautical catastrophy shown in the flashbacks.

- Chaos has a strange way of creeping up every now and then and making seemingly unsurvivable calamities survivable. Several parachutists have survived free-falls of over 10,000 feet with nary a thing to slow their descent but the suit they wear and the aerodynamics of their body, a couple even hitting nothing but terra firma on the way down. Once while driving on a wet road I entered a curve going 110 MPH (don't ask why; I was young and full of crazy ideas), spun out of control for several revolutions, and crashed backwards into a tree. The damage? A 1.5" x 2.5" elliptical mar in the rear bumper's paint that was textured like bark. I also got rear-ended by a motor home going at least 50 MPH while on a motorcycle and was back in school the day after.

- We know the plane broke up in flight, and we know 48 or so people ended up on the beach near the wreckage of the middle section of the fuselage, or thereabouts. Here is the kicker - there is no reason why you should have to suspend your disbelief. It is up to the writers and creators of Lost to come up with a plausible explaination as to how this happened, and I do believe they think they can pull this off. Actually, I guarantee they think they can pull it off, I just can't guarantee they'll be able to convince all of us. But there is an explaination for how these people survived.


Finally, as far as sonic phenomena relating to the show, I did notice something during the re-airing of the pilot. What brought the plane down was not turbulence, but a shock wave followed by turbulence. Whatever the source of this enormous blast of percussion was remains to be seen.

[Chance Gardener]

Was that too much?

[sawyerhasbestlines]

Thanks for all that. It's fun to think about.

The implication is an auditory "holograph." It means people (Danielle, Sayid, Jack) are not crazy or that they are having auditory hallucinations. And why some can hear things and others can't while being in near proximity.

drabauer,
what about :
" - someone for whom "sound" is a constant preoccupation - "

Me too.

[hppydppy1]

jgf, i am here to support you.;)
there was a hawaiian airliner that had a section of the fuselage blow out and sucked a few people out of the plane in mid-air. being as this show is very dramatic and mystery-laden, i just wonder if the writers really thought we would get this far into it? get so abstract about what is what on the show? to notice things like sections of the plane, sound waves, turbines sucking only one person in, etc., as opposed to just having this being "hollywood" stuff for show and not meaning anything. if you get picky and intently watch every show, you will see that the continuity people make mistakes. i.e., a gal with long hair has it all hanging over her left shoulder and in the next cut to her, she has it on her right shoulder. so, things we pick at may be just mistakes, or hollywood stuff. i think the clues they are showing us and rerunning, are in the comic book, charlie, the ring and rose, hurleys reason for being there, claire's baby, locke's being "un" paralyzed and his comfort on this island, the sound of the turbine and the sound from the hills where the trees are blowing, the empty coffin, "vincent" (a watcher), ethan, the handcuffs found in the woods, the polar bear. there is more, but i am taking a lot of room. i don't think things like the type of labels on boxes, clothing, etc, are playing too much in this. the stones are weird, too. black and white ones. cause and effect/yin/yang, dark light, good, evil.
some really abstract and far out thinkers here. great reading what you all say. intense show, huh?

[armarea]

This sound discussion is really intriguing!

When you listen to the sound of the tail of the plane breaking off as you watch the pilot, are you also struck by the brilliant white light from the hole in the back of the plane? I am. It looks distinctly otherworldly to me. Any thoughts?

[TheBigCat]

Chance... You're awesome... When I get my sides stitched back together I'm gonna send a big kitty style bear hug your way!

Dahlia, the faint hope for a survivability explanation that I am hanging on to might possibly come from The Others. I have noticed that, so far, the writers are not using the tactic of revealing things that are not noticed by, or are at least within the sight of, at least one of our castaways. I'm talking scenes like Boone walikng past a palm tree and the camera pans up to show the satelite dish in the crown of the tree and stuff like that. They haven't been doing it like that. But the posibility exists that one or more of The Others might have seen something, possibly from a hidden observation post. If I were running a secret polar bear-breeding and pregnant woman-abducting facility I would post look-outs. Maybe we will see something in a flashback from wazzizname abductor-boy.

[Chance Gardener]

TBC, glad to hear it; that was the reaction I was going for.

Dahlia, several excellent points. Commendations and kudos to you. I agree that its up to the writers to convince us of the 'why' they survived and agree also that it is conceivable. Stranger things do happen in this world.

Just because something has 100:1 odds doesn't mean it won't happen. Sometimes you're lucky 100.

[bigmouth]

Nobody saw the crash, so no one can estimate how survivable it was. You have made assumptions of what the resulting crash would be based on the damage to the plane in-flight and the fact that it ended up in at least three major pieces. The fact that there are major pieces should clue you in to the fact that the crash did not occur in the manner in which one would suppose it would based on the aeronautical catastrophy shown in the flashbacks.

Is this really right, BD? I mean, some of the survivors surely witnessed the crash. And at least one, Sayid, has specifically mentioned that such a crash should not have had so many survivors. At this point, I think some kind of outside intervention has to be the explanation.

Also, don't forget that Danielle described a terrible noise when the frenchies' ship crashed way back when. If I recall, some of the survivors said they heard something similar during the crash. If so, that strongly suggests to me this wasn't luck.

[drabauer]

Just read about the recent invention by Elwood Norris on the AP wire; he won the Lemelson-MIT prize for his efforts:
To cut down on manmade sound straying beyond its intended audience, Norris developed a way to create a focused beam of sound waves, sort of like focusing a beam of light. ...
His sound-focusing invention, known as HyperSonic Sound, starts by generating ultrasonic — above the range of human hearing — sound waves, which can be focused in a tight beam rather than spreading out in all directions.

As these high-frequency sound waves pass through the air, they generate lower frequency sounds that people can hear. By stepping into the "beam," a person can hear sound that someone standing a foot or more away can't detect.

"It's going to quiet everything down," Norris said. "If you don't want to be bothered by it, you step to one side and you don't hear it.". . .

In cars, the technology could allow parents to listen to their favorite music in the front seats while kids in back choose their own. An airport terminal message could be beamed only to travelers in a specific area while not disturbing everyone else. A supermarket promoting a sale on cereal could project a sales pitch to shoppers in the cereal aisle.

I propose that this could explain both the whispers and particular hallucinations. Individual castaways might be targeted and sent specific messages, and the writers may expand on Norris's concept to include visual as well as auditory information.

Back to a rational explanation . . .

[lacenaire]

Cool drabauer

Is this too far from a wireless matrix theory?
I mean VR nowadays blends the real with the virtual and it even mixes them up.

[Mattie]

What a weird yet intriguing invention...what will they come up with next?

[sawyerhasbestlines]

Ohh boy do I wish this was a city mandate in NYC apartments.
------

Maybe the transmission of the numbers can be beamed directly at their targets ... sort of like telmarketing entrapment snare.

[drabauer]

Ohh boy do I wish this was a city mandate in NYC apartments.

:rotfl:

I don't live there but I visit often, and I always get a headache after half a day--my brain can't take all the conflicting sonic signals!

Seriously, I wouldn't be surprised if the writers knew of this and plotted around it. And yes, I suppose it could explain a VR invironment. Pesonally I find it more interesting to speculate that the island is the island and the hallucinations/whispers/dreams are separate; otherwise, why bother to even incoporate dreams and visions into the plot?

[Artuskan]

Could be! ... Then again, there may be a band of killer ventriloquists loose on the island.

Even scarier ... they could be MIME ventriloquists!

[Chance Gardener]

yea!!!!

[drabauer]

Old but meaty, beaty big and bouncy.

[NeillT006]

Tell me. Who would bump their own thread?

N.

[LostInWilderness]

drabauer, are you messing up Neill's nicely ordered board? ;)

[drabauer]

Neill, not just bumped, but revived from the dead!


Chance asked for it, I give it to him. Isn't that the way we're supposed to respond to Gardener's wishes around here? ;)

[athywithak]

There have been many post-finale discussions of sound, my favorite Lost topic.

In light of these recent discussions, what we saw of a (the?) monster in Exodus II and ESPECIALLY in light of CG's doubly delicious theory, OF COURSE it's great to have this back!

YAY

>>>>>>><<<<<<
sound links (just in case you want 'em)

monster has been sighted (may 2005):
p073.ezboard.com/flostthe...1&stop=136 (http://p073.ezboard.com/flosttheunofficalforumfortheabcseriesfrm29.showMes sageRange?topicID=1507.topic&start=121&stop=136)

monster sounds:

clanking noise:
p073.ezboard.com/flostthe...3229.topic (http://p073.ezboard.com/flosttheunofficalforumfortheabcseriesfrm2.showMess age?topicID=3229.topic)

mysterious humming sound:
p073.ezboard.com/flostthe...3238.topic (http://p073.ezboard.com/flosttheunofficalforumfortheabcseriesfrm2.showMess age?topicID=3238.topic)

humming and hatch:
T&S : Light From The Hatch:
p073.ezboard.com/flostthe...2129.topic (http://p073.ezboard.com/flosttheunofficalforumfortheabcseriesfrm29.showMes sage?topicID=2129.topic)


Theories and Speculation ::: "security system" cranking noise???
p073.ezboard.com/flostthe...2241.topic (http://p073.ezboard.com/flosttheunofficalforumfortheabcseriesfrm29.showMes sage?topicID=2241.topic)


sounds in general, crash too

Theories and Speculation - Archive 3
> Invention reinvigorates sound-wave theories
p073.ezboard.com/flostthe...=126.topic (http://p073.ezboard.com/flosttheunofficalforumfortheabcseriesfrm45.showMes sage?topicID=126.topic)

NOW AT Sonic Bloom: a thesis in four acts p073.ezboard.com/flostthe...c&index=36 (http://p073.ezboard.com/flosttheunofficalforumfortheabcseriesfrm29.showAdd ReplyScreenFromWeb?topicID=425.topic&index=36)

juanbong comments on sounds of crash and monster in Exodus to Pilot Full Circle: 16 Week Loop? thread in EZ HACK SHELTER
p073.ezboard.com/flostthe...D=42.topic (http://p073.ezboard.com/flosttheunofficalforumfortheabcseriesfrm47.showMes sage?topicID=42.topic) REPLACE LINK- where’d it go?

_____________

doubly delicious – two monsters:
p073.ezboard.com/flostthe...2205.topic (http://p073.ezboard.com/flosttheunofficalforumfortheabcseriesfrm29.showMes sage?topicID=2205.topic)

[magnet school]

Audiophiles unite!

[Warthawg1]

Quite frankly, I am glad some people periodically bump their own threads. Had the good doctor not bumped, then I would have never read, as I don't have the attention span to go searching past page 1 or 2.

[Chance Gardener]

yes, doc bumping needs to be practiced on a regular basis

[bigmouth]

Funny, I was just thinking about this thread as I watched a program on the origins of music...

[azteclady]

Oh my dear God...

I feel all stupid all of a sudden.

But in a really good way!

Note to self: Must reread, slowly and sounding out the complicated bits, before attempting to comment.

The best news prior to actual understanding is that some of my favorite original posters followed the community and have registered at the new place. That alone is grounds for a party!

[Badger]

Just a few years ago a MD-80 went down off SoCal because engineers mis-prescribed the preventive maintanence required on the horizontal stabilizer jackscrew assembly.


It was not an engineering error per se which led to the failure of the horizonal stabilizer jackscrew assembly on Alaska FLT 261, which occurred in January of 2000. A maintenance snafu?, yes.

In fact it was a maintenance accident. The maintenance and inspection of the horizontal stabilizer activation system was poorly conceived and woefully executed. The failure was compounded by poor oversight. Lubrication periods were extended, while inspection intervals were simultaneously lengthened, neither with a sound technical basis.

The jackscrew you're referring to is robust. Even at its wear limit condition, it is many times strong enough to carry out its function. And it does not wear quickly when cared for. It is a time-tested mainstay in the fleet, and one major carrier with a diligent approach to its maintenance has never seen one seriously wear, much less wear out. A whole herd of miscues was needed to allow it to fail. Virtually any system on an aircraft treated with the indifference shown to this mechanism will break, many with equally catastrophic effect. Aircraft simply must be maintained, and maintained with care and at all cost.

The original engineering specifications call for it to be lubricated and endplay measurements of the Acme nut to be accomplished every 600 hours. Alaska lengthend that, and over time it ended up being something like 2,550 hrs. Since the accident the FAA has mandated lubrication of said jackscrew and the associated mechanism to 650 hrs. The original engineering was and remains correct and proper.

As to whether or not Oceanic FLT 815 was suvivable I have stated previously, on the old forum, prior to the hack and early in season 1 that it was not survivable. This is my opinion, not only as an engineer but as a pilot with 40 years of experience, half of which were in the military.

However, this is television, fiction, a fantasy and bears no semblence to reality but merely an illusion of such. Although some of the events depicted may be 'possible given the right and bizarre set of circumstances', they are still fictional.

I am sure the writers will have an explanation for what we saw, and although it might be remotely conceviable, in reality it's so unlikely as to be laughable. In that regard at least I have to agree with your brother, Ms Bauer.

[LostInWilderness]

http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/11/29/1834252&from=rss

[island_maverick]

What sort of bump was that, LiW? A hit and run link?

[LostInWilderness]

drabauer made the case of using sonic energy to lower the plane to the ground. I posted a link that supports that theory. We still don't know how anybody survived that crash.

[NeillT006]

Seems to me we saw the plane crash, and it didn't look as if it was gently lowered to the ground.

More of a boom than a bloom.

N.

[sawyerhasbestlines]

Old but meaty, beaty big and bouncy.


Try saying that 3 X out loud.

[island_maverick]

I could buy the levitation/controlled-lowering-by-sonic-pressure idea, but given the fragments of information about the plane, whilst in flight, that we've seen on the show, it would take something explicitly directional, and multi-regional to bring down the three sections safely.

[LostInWilderness]

It looks to me like TPTB are going with the plane broke apart between 40,000 and 10,000 ft and people survived. No further explanation necessary. That's quite a cop out, imo, because how they survived is the genesis of the mysteries that captured all of us all. But we can hold out hope for something better, like sonic levitation.

[jmb3rg3r]

Old but meaty, beaty big and bouncy.

Try saying that 3 X out loud.
I tried, but I got too turned on by the second repetition... :o