View Full Version : Juliet Dichotomy
Juliete is a very interesting character. She has shown many different sides to her personality. For Example, she is shown as being very feable in her flashback, not being able to stand up to her ex, and admitting that she was a mess. Then is shown to be very cool, calm, and calculated through her actions on the island. She is shown as a life giver when working to get her sister pregnant, and as a cold blooded murderer when she whacks Danny near the end of the episode. She intrigues me.
She also said that she has been on the island for something like 3- 3 1/2 years. It will be very interesting to see if her sisters baby carried to term and what the outcome was there.
Did anyone find Jack's reaction coupled with the music to be odd when she mentioed that Ben told her he was going to get her off the island??? Like he took more from that than maybe the rest of us did. Just some thoughts.
Not_So_Lost
02-08-07, 02:08 PM
Did anyone find Jack's reaction coupled with the music to be odd when she mentioed that Ben told her he was going to get her off the island??? Like he took more from that than maybe the rest of us did. Just some thoughts.
I think maybe that he realized that Ben told him the same thing. That if he did the surgery then he would let him go home, and now that Juliet was told the same thing he is thinking Ben just uses that as the ultimate bribe, and that both of them are going nowhere.
calib73
02-08-07, 02:09 PM
Did anyone find Jack's reaction coupled with the music to be odd when she mentioed that Ben told her he was going to get her off the island??? Like he took more from that than maybe the rest of us did. Just some thoughts.
I found that a little odd too. Lost usually ends on a cliffhanger and it seemed a little strange to end it there, almost like we need to look closer at it.
sawyerhasbestlines
02-08-07, 02:16 PM
I think maybe that he realized that Ben told him the same thing. That if he did the surgery then he would let him go home, and now that Juliet was told the same thing he is thinking Ben just uses that as the ultimate bribe, and that both of them are going nowhere.
That's what he told Michael and Walt.
If Ben lives, and he still has a spine, he should just wear a T-shirt that says: "do what I want, and you can go home". And the back should say: not.
Regarding Juliet's duality and finesse with the gun. A lot of them have remarkable finesse. I was amazed Kate's fingers weren't blown off when they shot the walkie-talkie out of her hands. Juliet had the seed of a monster in her when she secretly performing questionable research on her own. Her new environment just nurtured the seed.
I think maybe that he realized that Ben told him the same thing. That if he did the surgery then he would let him go home, and now that Juliet was told the same thing he is thinking Ben just uses that as the ultimate bribe, and that both of them are going nowhere.
That crossed my mind too, but that shouldn't suprise him that much. He knew she wasn't happy with Ben and wanted him dead. He shouldn't be so suprised that she wanted off, or that he was willing to grant that wish. I think there's a bit more to that.
denys001
02-08-07, 02:51 PM
Did anyone get the name of the company courting Juliet ? I'm sure there's another easter egg here by way of the 'net. ... What's its connection with teh Hanslo Foundation ?
Did anyone get the name of the company courting Juliet ? I'm sure there's another easter egg here by way of the 'net. ... What's its connection with teh Hanslo Foundation ?
Mittelos
Scrambled = Lost time/time lost
Homer Noodleman
02-08-07, 03:19 PM
I don't see too much of a dichotomy. Both Flashback Juliet and Island Juliet were trapped in situations they couldn't control. In her flashback her Ex was aware that she was conducting illegal experiments on a human subject (do you have any idea how screwed she would be if the courts found out about that?) while her being trapped on Craphole needs no expanding upon.
Further, when Tom mentions to Jack that she and Ben have a history, the implication is that she has an Ex in both situations, and that her past significant others are quite manipulative and may not be interested in what's good for her.
That said, she does have spine to try to see to her interests in both situations. She does risk doing the illegal experiments because of her feelings for her sister, and -- when offered a chance off the island -- she puts herself in a position of peril with the Others by killing Pickett.
In short, she seems feeble because she is in a situation where other people are holding all of the cards, but she still plays her hand as well as she can.
As for Ben promising a way iff the island, I think he is being entirely honest. Since his conversation with Kate on the beach, I've argued that he is clinging to the notion of civilization as he goes through the bad. Ben wants off the island, and Ben has a plan that some how involves Jack to get off. If you'll recall, Juliet says something to the effect that Ben told her he would get her off the island if she helped Jack when the time came.
Ben has lived his life on that crazy island. He lives in an eratz suburb and acts as he imagines a civilized 'gentleman' behaves. He doesn't want to see the world through a TV screen, he wants to sit on a park bench in Central Park and be surrounded by humanity.
BTW, take no offense, but I'm moving this to the new Character interactions forum. I think it will get some good input there.
I Hate Seabillies
02-08-07, 03:34 PM
That's what he told Michael and Walt.
If Ben lives, and he still has a spine, he should just wear a T-shirt that says: "do what I want, and you can go home". And the back should say: not.
We don't know for sure that Ben's promise to Michael was not fulfilled. Everything we see about Ben leads me to believe he will find a way to technically fulfill his promise but not with the intent of the promisee.
But I agree, the look on Jack's face was "Oh crap, that's what he promised me. Me thinks I'm not going anywhere."
Lyonyssa
02-08-07, 03:35 PM
Which brings us back to the tumor. If Ben couldn't leave the island because he knew the tumor would kill him, having Jack remove it would theoretically allow him to do so. If that is the case, his dangling the same carrot before Jack and Juliet makes sense. Let's for a moment think of Ben as a petulent little boy instead of a man. The benign dictator of all he perceives, if Ben is happy, everyone is happy. If Ben can't leave the island, no one leaves the island. So with the surgery, he is able to finally leave and will then allow the others to do so as well.
sawyerhasbestlines
02-08-07, 09:37 PM
Michael and Walt = Snowglobe. They'll be back.
Ben hasn't left the island to get fixed in a real hospital, because he can't leave - since the purple sky.
I don't believe that Ben has only existed on that dharmite island. I think he's stuck there now. He's probably gone back and forth before - the same way Juliet got there, the same way Ethan got there.
The question is what triggered the tumor and how did it grow so fast. And is it really a tumor. Can't wait for the lab results.
clayseason1
02-09-07, 11:30 AM
Did anyone find Jack's reaction coupled with the music to be odd when she mentioed that Ben told her he was going to get her off the island??? Like he took more from that than maybe the rest of us did.
Yes, Jack learned a lot from that operation experience.
After Jack tells Tom what Juliet said about letting Ben die on the operating table and Tom tells Julet to leave, Juliet tells Tom that Jack is lying - he would never let a patient just die.
Now Jack knows that whole Juliet saying one thing and displaying cards saying another was part of the mind game. Juliet has known all along that Jack wouldn't be a party to intentionally letting a patient die.
In addition, Jack now knows that Juliet believes Ben has the power and authority to "let her leave" the island. (Jack also has to wonder if Juliet's little break down - going home scene isn't part of the bigger mindgame.)
Juliet also told Jack that she's been there 3+ years. Earlier she confirmed that she was part of the original operation with the "it doesn't matter who we were then, it only matters who we are now" scene. From the looks of the condition of the stations, Dharma operations went south a long time ago, but now Jack knows everything fell apart during the last 3+ years.
Great point. So you believe that Juliet does not want Ben to die? hmmmmm
juanbong
02-09-07, 01:55 PM
Juliete is a very interesting character. She has shown many different sides to her personality. For Example, she is shown as being very feable in her flashback, not being able to stand up to her ex, and admitting that she was a mess. Then is shown to be very cool, calm, and calculated through her actions on the island. She is shown as a life giver when working to get her sister pregnant, and as a cold blooded murderer when she whacks Danny near the end of the episode. She intrigues me.
First off, I'm very pleased and elated that you brought this thread up, diggy8! I have been thinking this exact notion since rewatching the ep last night and had planned to post something quite similar.
Now, Homer brings out some excellent points on Juliet's dichotomy. This statement rings so true from what we have seen so far...
Further, when Tom mentions to Jack that she and Ben have a history, the implication is that she has an Ex in both situations, and that her past significant others are quite manipulative and may not be interested in what's good for her.
We have seen how manipulative Ben can be. He told Jack that if he saved him, then Ben would let Jack go home. Now he has told Juliet the same thing. Juliet having history with Ben makes things tough for her, just like it would make things difficult for anyone in this kind of situation. However, once Ben does tell Juliet that he will let her go if she helps Jack, Juliet becomes her island self. In control, aggressive, and quick on her feet. Remember when Jack asks Juliet if she is in charge...
JACK: You work for him?
JULIET: No, I don't work for him.
JACK: He's in charge.
JULIET: Well, it doesn't work that way over here, Jack. We make decisions together.
JACK: Really? Because when I was holding that broken plate at your neck he seemed happy to just let you die. I mean, it felt like he made that decision on his own.
JULIET: You don't know what you're talking about. I don't answer to him.
But see it does work that way. Ben has control of Juliet somehow. We know how Edmund had control of Juliet with legal issues and trying to publish her work.
Now we have seen Juliet in two different lights but still under the influence of powerful men. The thing that we still need to know is, why is Juliet really on the island? To study fertility experiments? To impregnate a female or male subject? She isn't a doctor like Jack.
This will be interesting on what role she plays now that she has helped Jack's friends escape and helped Ben live.
Which brings us back to the tumor. If Ben couldn't leave the island because he knew the tumor would kill him, having Jack remove it would theoretically allow him to do so. If that is the case, his dangling the same carrot before Jack and Juliet makes sense. Let's for a moment think of Ben as a petulent little boy instead of a man. The benign dictator of all he perceives, if Ben is happy, everyone is happy. If Ben can't leave the island, no one leaves the island. So with the surgery, he is able to finally leave and will then allow the others to do so as well.
We don't know that. When Jack asked why they didn't take him off Island to get the operation Tom started to say something about the purple sky but never had a chance to finish.
We don't know how long they knew about the tumor, many people have serious medical conditions and ignore all kinds of symptoms until it's too late; given this is Craphole Island and the experiments they're involved in we don't know how it got there or when.
They may no longer be able to leave the Island or can only do so at certain times.
Perhaps after the first failure to push the button they may have tightened up how often a Dharma plane comes there, or maybe they can't come as often.
mystwoman
02-09-07, 02:13 PM
If Jack is so famous in the medical profession, why doesn't Juliet have a time and place where she experienced Jack?
I'd love a flashback where Christian hit on her.
Now we have seen Juliet in two different lights but still under the influence of powerful men. The thing that we still need to know is, why is Juliet really on the island? To study fertility experiments? To impregnate a female or male subject? She isn't a doctor like Jack.
This will be interesting on what role she plays now that she has helped Jack's friends escape and helped Ben live.
Great point. Where does she go from there??? Assuming that is what Ben said to her, I am inclined to believe that she thinks she's got a legit possibility to get out, which for storyline purposes probably won't happen (of course Michael and Walt have sure been go for a long time with no check in). But I digress. The question that I have is: If you're Jack, why do you let them have three minutes alone right there??? You're already balls deep, why give an inch? How many other peoople were jumping off there couches saying, "NO, N F'ing WAY! Don't allow it Jack!"
If Jack is so famous in the medical profession, why doesn't Juliet have a time and place where she experienced Jack?
I'd love a flashback where Christian hit on her.
In his field, there are so many excellent people in the medical profession it would be impossible to keep track of them, unless they're in your speciality.
Yeah, Jack is a surgeon, and she seems to be more into research.
Homer Noodleman
02-09-07, 05:31 PM
She's probably a molecular biologist or something like that, which would make it unlikely she traveled in the same circles as a spinal surgeon.
Could someone explain to me why:
Juliet was so emphatic that Jack must kill Ben, then when it appeared he might just do that, Juliet exposed him as though Jack was performing that on his own? I'm feeling so ignorant about her intent.
Hodgepodge
02-10-07, 10:41 PM
...He knew she wasn't happy with Ben and wanted him dead. He shouldn't be so suprised that she wanted off, or that he was willing to grant that wish. I think there's a bit more to that.
Yes, Jack learned a lot from that operation experience.
After Jack tells Tom what Juliet said about letting Ben die on the operating table and Tom tells Julet to leave, Juliet tells Tom that Jack is lying - he would never let a patient just die.
Now Jack knows that whole Juliet saying one thing and displaying cards saying another was part of the mind game. Juliet has known all along that Jack wouldn't be a party to intentionally letting a patient die...I don't think she was playing a game. If it's proven Ben did promise Juliet a free ride off the island, then I'd say she definitely tried to get Jack to kill Ben.
Something else I found interesting! Tom's reaction to Jack's statement. "...did Juliet really ask you to kill him?" He knew it was a possibilty. This wasn't Juliet's first attempt to get Ben out of the way. Maybe she's asked other "Others" for help in the endeavor. But Tom know she's capable of it. JMO!
They're a small tight knit group, and her research is extremely important. They may have known she's had deep anger or hatred toward Ben but they couldn't afford to lose her.
They're mind games masters, in her future flashbacks I'd bet they show them using manipulation her to keep line. If that failed they would probably resort to threatening her sister, so I think she's been powerless until now.
We know she'll kill in a heartbeat and we know she's been approached by some of the group who is in disagreement with Ben's leadership. I'm thinking some of her flashback's will show a person trapped, but canny enough to keep her freedom and wait her time to strike.
Without Dane
02-11-07, 12:20 AM
I think maybe that he realized that Ben told him the same thing. That if he did the surgery then he would let him go home, and now that Juliet was told the same thing he is thinking Ben just uses that as the ultimate bribe, and that both of them are going nowhere.
I like that interpretation. I just wish it had been a bit more clear in the episode. But, that makes a lot of sense.
melanie
02-11-07, 02:45 AM
gertie- I think it was just to keep from being "discovered." Jack had just "tattled" so she effectively said "I didn't do it! HE's just lying!"
I like that interpretation. I just wish it had been a bit more clear in the episode. But, that makes a lot of sense.
Since when do TPTB make anything clear anymore? If the water is not completely muddy they won't give us a drink.
I'm curious what special power Ben has to leave the island that Juliette couldnt finagle herself. Like access to what button, ship, wormhole (yeah I went there) that he has control of that no one else does. His having this power seems like he'd trump whatever Jacob has.
clayseason1
02-11-07, 10:59 PM
I just finished Jack's walkthrough for "Not in Portland" and there's a line there that could be quite revealing. I haven't seen any discussion of it so I thought this would be the right place to mention it.
from "Not in Portland"
After the operation, Jack stands in the observation room, staring down at Ben. He looks over at Juliet as she joins him. She asks if he was able to remove the tumor and Jack says simply, "Yeah." Jack then tells Juliet to do a biopsy and see if the tumor is malignant. Then Jack asks, "So what now? I just go back to my cell?" Juliet replies, "Until they figure out what to do with you." Jack inhales sharply and nodding his head, says, "They."
The thing of it is, if Ben is in charge, Juliet would have said "Ben" not "They". So I'm wondering who "they" are. I don't think it's a group of the "others" that we have seen - again I think it's obvious that Ben is the leader of that group and the decision-maker of that group. I think it's either an "off-island" group or another layer of the "others" - perhaps a council of some type. What do you think?
I don't think he has special power, I think he got it the old fashioned way by using a crisis.
Juliet still ranted about how they were all supoosed to be equal, and there are others who resent Ben. Somethings be happening we haven't seen yet.
The hatch the Tailes took shelter in was abandoned, the medical hatch was operational, but was left in a few short weeks, no one came to relieve the personal in the hatch with Desmond.
My thought is something big is happening, something that could be very damaging to the Others, as always a strong person starts take charge. After awhile they control by will alone, and the laws and ideals of a community are discarded.
Dictatorship 101, be the saving figure in a time of crisis.
The thing of it is, if Ben is in charge, Juliet would have said "Ben" not "They". So I'm wondering who "they" are.
This is interesting. I had read that line under a totally different light. I thought that it was meant to convey that Juliet did not consider herself totally an Other ("They decide what to do with you" instead of "we decide what to do with you") and Jack sort of noticed it and stressed "they". Of course, with Juliet all is fuzzy and debatable, so anything is possible!
This is interesting. I had read that line under a totally different light. I thought that it was meant to convey that Juliet did not consider herself totally an Other ("They decide what to do with you" instead of "we decide what to do with you") and Jack sort of noticed it and stressed "they". Of course, with Juliet all is fuzzy and debatable, so anything is possible!
I had taken this the same way. I assumed Juliet was seperating herself from the others. It seems as if she had aligned herself with Jack; not necessarily the Losties, but Jack. The reasons behind this are unclear, but she has certainly done her best to further his cause. Personally, I still think she's on team "Bad Guys". Anyway, I think that's why that statement was made, but what do I know?
Hodgepodge
02-12-07, 04:43 PM
I believe what the "Others" had Sawyer and Kate working on was a makeshift landing strip. I forsee Him/Jacob/:whistling and probably Bea landing on the smaller island in the near future. Then, all hells going to break loose! :Cowdance:
juanbong
02-12-07, 07:04 PM
I believe what the "Others" had Sawyer and Kate working on was a makeshift landing strip. I forsee Him/Jacob/:whistling and probably Bea landing on the smaller island in the near future. Then, all hells going to break loose! :Cowdance:
Actually, that is a landing strip so I can come and go off the island. I just didn't want to tell anyone! :D
On a more serious note, I do hope we find out what pray tell the Others were making/building. I keep hearing about they were digging for some ancient relic that is located on the island, but I dunno.
What about her sis being named Rachel, Jacob's fave wife and I think Benjamin's mother (in the Bible, that is)? I'm starting to think the names are just a smokescreen to add to our confusion.
juanbong
02-12-07, 08:10 PM
What about her sis being named Rachel, Jacob's fave wife and I think Benjamin's mother (in the Bible, that is)? I'm starting to think the names are just a smokescreen to add to our confusion.
Maybe, but TPTB has of recently said that be alert of the names of characters because they do mean something. Now to what they mean, you got me.
I read that too Juan, which makes me think they are playing with our collective heads. It is that or there's a rip in the space time continuum and Rachel is Ben's mommy and Juliette is his aunt, and Jacob is her hubby who has 11 other sons on the island, eeekk.
I believe what the "Others" had Sawyer and Kate working on was a makeshift landing strip. I forsee Him/Jacob/:whistling and probably Bea landing on the smaller island in the near future. Then, all hells going to break loose! :Cowdance:
That would mean something may have happened to any other landing strip they had. I'm really convinced there's an unseen war between the Others and ? we don't know about.
TheBigCat
02-14-07, 08:34 AM
Maybe, but TPTB has of recently said that be alert of the names of characters because they do mean something. Now to what they mean, you got me.
I'll add that to my list of other things TPTB said.
:rolleyes:
Rewatching the FB last night I cant believe I missed that lamp in Rachels room. It was the Hexagon shape that has been used in many places over the past seasons on Lost. I havent seen a screencap of it yet, I think it had a design on the front , it was brown (could have been wood). I hope this means they are going back to lots of detail in things for us to catch , not in the Locke's sock draw sense, but more like when Damon said the props are very deliberately picked sense.
I think he did, but the problem is what is just a little wink to the fans and what has plot meaning. There's a big difference and I don't think they were clear about those types of details.
philosopher
02-16-07, 04:01 AM
Juliete is a very interesting character. She has shown many different sides to her personality. For Example, she is shown as being very feable in her flashback, not being able to stand up to her ex, and admitting that she was a mess. Then is shown to be very cool, calm, and calculated through her actions on the island. She is shown as a life giver when working to get her sister pregnant, and as a cold blooded murderer when she whacks Danny near the end of the episode. She intrigues me.
She also said that she has been on the island for something like 3- 3 1/2 years. It will be very interesting to see if her sisters baby carried to term and what the outcome was there.
Did anyone find Jack's reaction coupled with the music to be odd when she mentioed that Ben told her he was going to get her off the island??? Like he took more from that than maybe the rest of us did. Just some thoughts.
I think Jack was just shocked because he didn't suspect that Juliet wasn't an Other. If he did he wouldn't have betrayed her by telling Tom that she asked him to kill Ben. I feel Jack did a terrible mistake when he said that.
As for Juliet, I think she just wants the Others to believe she's on their side. I would be really surprised if she knows what has happened to her sister the last 3 years, which is probably why she's so desperate to leave the island.
philosopher
02-16-07, 04:09 AM
I don't see too much of a dichotomy. Both Flashback Juliet and Island Juliet were trapped in situations they couldn't control. In her flashback her Ex was aware that she was conducting illegal experiments on a human subject (do you have any idea how screwed she would be if the courts found out about that?) while her being trapped on Craphole needs no expanding upon.
Further, when Tom mentions to Jack that she and Ben have a history, the implication is that she has an Ex in both situations, and that her past significant others are quite manipulative and may not be interested in what's good for her.
That said, she does have spine to try to see to her interests in both situations. She does risk doing the illegal experiments because of her feelings for her sister, and -- when offered a chance off the island -- she puts herself in a position of peril with the Others by killing Pickett.
In short, she seems feeble because she is in a situation where other people are holding all of the cards, but she still plays her hand as well as she can.
As for Ben promising a way iff the island, I think he is being entirely honest. Since his conversation with Kate on the beach, I've argued that he is clinging to the notion of civilization as he goes through the bad. Ben wants off the island, and Ben has a plan that some how involves Jack to get off. If you'll recall, Juliet says something to the effect that Ben told her he would get her off the island if she helped Jack when the time came.
Ben has lived his life on that crazy island. He lives in an eratz suburb and acts as he imagines a civilized 'gentleman' behaves. He doesn't want to see the world through a TV screen, he wants to sit on a park bench in Central Park and be surrounded by humanity.
BTW, take no offense, but I'm moving this to the new Character interactions forum. I think it will get some good input there.
I have a feeling Juliet doesn't know they can't leave the island after the sky turned purple. So it would be easy for Ben to promise her that when he knows it cannot happen. Juliet doesn't seem to know much about what's going on with the Others. When Ben gave her the assignment to talk to another outsider (Jack) she felt this was her opportunity to try something, but she couldn't talk to him because of all the cameras.
JACK: You work for him?
JULIET: No, I don't work for him.
JACK: He's in charge.
JULIET: Well, it doesn't work that way over here, Jack. We make decisions together.
JACK: Really? Because when I was holding that broken plate at your neck he seemed happy to just let you die. I mean, it felt like he made that decision on his own.
JULIET: You don't know what you're talking about. I don't answer to him.
I'm glad I wasn't the only one who was reminded of that conversation :)
Jack at the time was trying to play mindgames but I think he had just discovered that Juliet isn't really a member of the team. He just didn't know it yet.
As for why Juliet's on the island. I suppose the answer is to help them with their project (whatever that is).
philosopher
02-16-07, 04:21 AM
Could someone explain to me why:
Juliet was so emphatic that Jack must kill Ben, then when it appeared he might just do that, Juliet exposed him as though Jack was performing that on his own? I'm feeling so ignorant about her intent.
I'm not sure I understand this. It was Jack who exposed Juliet by revealing what she told him in private. Juliet had no choice but to deny it then because she would have been in terrible trouble if the Others found out she was still sabotaging them.
Jack made a huge mistake when he said that and it looks like he will realize it in the next episode (watch the canadian preview and you'll understand why).
philosopher
02-16-07, 04:23 AM
I just finished Jack's walkthrough for "Not in Portland" and there's a line there that could be quite revealing. I haven't seen any discussion of it so I thought this would be the right place to mention it.
from "Not in Portland"
The thing of it is, if Ben is in charge, Juliet would have said "Ben" not "They". So I'm wondering who "they" are. I don't think it's a group of the "others" that we have seen - again I think it's obvious that Ben is the leader of that group and the decision-maker of that group. I think it's either an "off-island" group or another layer of the "others" - perhaps a council of some type. What do you think?
I think Juliet meant the Others when she said they. She apparently isn't a member of their group even though they were trying to convince Jack otherwise.
But did she join them after going to the Island?
She's a risk taker and possibly reckless, willing to throw away her obviously expectional career by doing something very illegal. Yes she did it for her sister, but we have to look at the bigger picture, unless it was a matter of life or death was it worth the risk because her sister wanted a baby her body produced?
She may be an idealist so the Dharma philosophy could have appealed to her. We see her in a position power beyond the medical aspect so it looks like at some point she joined them.
There is only one thing that would be give me pause about her place. When Alex set off the alarm the first thing Danny or Tom asked was if the doctor had escaped or got out again. She may have tried to escape before, but for them to give her a weapon and allow her to orders shows they trust her.
they do trust her, and they also gave her the key to the cuffs which she hid from Kate. I still say she is a mole for the others.
Just nice to see those two handcuffed to each other. I would have directed that scene a bit differently :)
I didn't comment yesterday because I read the episode synopsis knew what she was going to do..
Juliet for all of her supposed morality is a typical Lost character with serious moral issues and flaws. In spite of her song and dance to keep Sayid and Sawyer from busting her ass, she's as bad as the rest.
In her flashback she inpregnates her cancer weakened sister using a stolen experimental drug. She's one of the Other in spite of her desire to return home. Everything we've seen shows she's trusted member of of a very exclusive community.
Now she deceives everyone to carry out Ben's plan, one that had to be in place before Claire escaped.She seems to stab everyone who trusts her in the back.
She never once told Kate, Sayid or Jack about what Ben wanted on the trip back. If they thought Claire was in danger they would have let her get the hidden medicine once they saw Claire bleeding. She could have even told them Sun needs needs facilities and medicine only the Others could give, it would be hard decision but one Sun would have to make.
Instead she just lies and lies and lies. There's something in it for her, probably her sister and her baby or her escape from the Island. She may turn as a character, but right now she's out for herself.
carmela
04-13-07, 05:49 PM
I don't see much of a dichotomy either. She has been manipulated and used. But she is continually deceitful - always for her own gain. I don't see her emerging victorious from all of it.
I don't see much of a dichotomy either. ...
the dichotomy is between weepy, submissive Juliet and the cool, non-responsive smiling Juliet personalities. I am greatly impressed by the actress' range and skill.
Tom said that "she and Ben have history". We don't know much about that, but apparently she has picked up techniques of manipulation and pushing people's buttons, which she obviously didn't have when confronting her ex-husband and his office sweetie. Nobody better than Ben to learn non-reaction, self-control,and deviousness from. She got that Mona Lisa smile from Ben, although it looks better on her.
Obviously, her loyalties are still with Ben and the Others. She may be fond of Jack, but he has less potential to suit her agenda.
the dichotomy is between weepy, submissive Juliet and the cool, non-responsive smiling Juliet personalities. I am greatly impressed by the actress' range and skill.
Tom said that "she and Ben have history". We don't know much about that, but apparently she has picked up techniques of manipulation and pushing people's buttons, which she obviously didn't have when confronting her ex-husband and his office sweetie. Nobody better than Ben to learn non-reaction, self-control,and deviousness from. She got that Mona Lisa smile from Ben, although it looks better on her.
Obviously, her loyalties are still with Ben and the Others. She may be fond of Jack, but he has less potential to suit her agenda.
Wow, well put. Yes, the dichotomy is just that. she seems very exacting and calculated some times, and then I feel like she's helpless and vulnerable at other times. She is a good actress.
Hodgepodge
04-17-07, 10:52 PM
I definitely see the dichotomy of the character!
On the one hand we have the woman who while showing Jack a movie, was asking him, through flash-cards to kill Ben on the operating table. Now we have the same woman, scheming with the same man she wanted dead, to infiltrate the Losties and put into action some diabolical plan. How does she keep it straight in her own mind? :confused:
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