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View Full Version : Eko and Charlie should have died with the Hatch!


sacred
02-18-07, 03:58 AM
Okay, big obvious there taken straight from the episode but Desmond tells us that Charlie is going to die.
If we keep in the character of the episode, then Charlie is going to die by some balancing act of the universe to try and restore the timeline. But what should Charlie have died from? The answer is:
The hatch implosion.
But think of the scale of that implosion! It was a pretty damned big crater, of crushed little bits, how does a person walk away from that?

The answer is more obvious from the episode than some think (depends how you read it of course); Desmond prevented them from ever being inside! Through the tiny differences in Desmond's relived life (yes, I am saying he was sent back), Charlie and Eko never made it into the hatch, possibly Locke wasn't either, meaning the only definite person inside the hatch is Desmond, who is there to turn the key.
However, when Desmond goes back in time he sees the mysterious jewellery shop woman who talks to him about the universal balance etc. What Desmond has done is cause at least two people (Eko and Charlie) to survive an implosion that was supposed to kill them. Poor Mr. Eko is grabbed by a polar bear, but Locke manages to rescue him, Mr. Eko eventually falls to Smokey.
Charlie is now the target of this balance, and Desmond, by creating this imbalance, is somehow able to read the changes happening and thus receive flashes of things changing, things that could now happen, and is able to change them to save Charlie's life.

I'm uncertain how Locke fits, he may have survived by some freak accident or he may have also been spared the hatch, perhaps Desmond manages to convince him to leave after he smashes the computer. Thus Locke could be a target too.

This is mainly throwing it out there, but the evidence I think is in HOW Mr. Eko was written off. I know it was not intended from the start but it seems to fit, how can one guy be so unlucky to have a hatch implode him, then a polar bear maul him then a smoke monster beat him about all in the space of what...two days? Fate catching up with him.
There could even be some alternative link in this way, that leaves all of them somehow as survivors. Perhaps this isn't the first time Desmond's life has 'flashed before his eyes' and this was the only future he managed to create in which all of them survived, while the hatch (the necessary, inevitable component) was destroyed. He could have gone through THOUSANDS of possible lives, some where he never landed on the island but saw the world end instead. All we saw was one of them where he finally understood what his role had to be. Perhaps we saw flashes from several different attempts. When you start meddling with time it becomes so deliciously unclear

The woman behind the counter in the jewellery store? I'm thinking she is the universe's way of restoring balance to Desmond's 'path'.
The Valencetti equation? Big stinker if the universe is trying to balance that, perhaps Dharma failed because everything they do only results in the universe correcting the equation again.
And here's the juicy, far-out and completely contrived bit; perhaps that is what the swan hatch was actually doing, trying to harness time or dampen it or something so that the work being done could change the core numbers of the equation and change the earth's fate.

Note; I'm not liking time-travel one bit, but taking this episode at its face (or apparent face) value becomes interesting in this way.

I mean, alternative; we missed a bit. Before Desmond turns the key, Locke, Eko and Charlie all make it to a safer distance. When Desmond turns the key some kind of emergency vent could have opened up (remember we don't know where exactly in the Swan Desmond was under the floor) which released a ton of energy and hurled him out, sans clothes before the hatch eventually collapses in on itself. Desmond then has some weird ass dream and aquires some strange awareness, or as posted in another thread is mentally attacked by Smokey which causes him to (or manipulates) this dream/hallucination he is having.
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Lostender
02-18-07, 07:00 AM
Final destination.... NOOOO
:Cheers:

Sopherocious
02-18-07, 09:05 AM
I was also reminded of the trite (but oh-so-entertaining-to-make-fun-of) movie Final Destination while considering what deaths might really have just been "course corrections."

Really though, Charlie has been escaping death since the crash because shouldn't he have died with the passengers in the nose section of the plane? He has had numerous brushes with death and several people have saved him already.

Preston
02-18-07, 12:46 PM
I like the thought that Desmond stopped them ever entering the hatch! That would be cool, but it wouldn't explain why they all still think they were in the hatch, cos if he stopped them being in the hatch when it blew up they would now think they wasn't in there, but I'm sure Locke and co have spoke about being in the hatch when it blew up?

Mind you! Charlie did say "Aren't they back yet?" just after the hatch blew up so maybe your right, maybe Charlie, Eko and Locke actually all walked out and Charlie was like why aren't they back yet?

Cranky
02-18-07, 12:52 PM
I was also reminded of the trite (but oh-so-entertaining-to-make-fun-of) movie Final Destination while considering what deaths might really have just been "course corrections."

Really though, Charlie has been escaping death since the crash because shouldn't he have died with the passengers in the nose section of the plane? He has had numerous brushes with death and several people have saved him already.

Yeah, Charlie was hung from a tree and brought back by Jack.

I think the writers just like messing with him.

JohWell
02-18-07, 02:03 PM
He has had numerous brushes with death and several people have saved him already.

Charlie needs to kick the bucket, soon!

Lets count some close calls.
1. Almost crushed by a cart while rushing to a seat during the crash.
2. Almost hit by a large chunk of airplane when it blows up on the ground.
3. Almost eaten by a polar bear while hiking with Sawyer/Kate/Boon/Shannon/Sayid(comon, you know Charlie cant run). Saved by Sawyers offhand shooting.
4. Almost chewed on by the monster, when his foot gets stuck as J/K&Him scramble away from the cockpit. Saved by Jack going back for him.
5. Almost crushed & then asphyxiated while trying to save Jack from a cave-in. Saved by Locke's previous words on moths.
6. Strung up by Ethan, beaten back to life by Jack.
7. Almost falls to his death when a rope bridge that just supported Hurley's weight snaps.
8. Almost shot by the crazy French chick. Saved by Hurley's speed and rugged handsomeness.
9. Gets hammered by rocks from one of Russo's traps.
10. Almost blown up by Eko in the hatch.
11. Almost blown up by Locke in the hatch.
12. Almost hit by lightning. Saved by Desmond's lightning rod.
13. Did not drown because Desmond likes to make things hard for himself.


I cant wait :Cheers:

cinderellabop
02-18-07, 03:50 PM
This scenario makes sense, but what is troubling me is, why didn't Desmond try to save Eko? Taking it a step further, why did Locke's vision quest instruct him to save Eko if he was meant to die? Why did Boone say in the vision that Charlie would be "all right, for now?"

If Desmond did prevent Eko and Charlie from entering the hatch, saving them from a predetermined death, then he should have been aware of Eko's fate, just as much as Charlie's. He should have been aware of what was going to happen to Eko with the polar bear, and later with Smokey. But Desmond didn't attempt to do anything about the polar bear, and when they all found Eko dead after the Smokey attack, Desmond seemed as shocked as anyone else. Was it because he realized the futility of trying to defeat destiny? If that was the case, why is he trying so hard to protect Charlie? I like the theory that somehow, Charlie will go on to do something to change fate (whether for good or bad).

lostboy
02-18-07, 03:54 PM
Final Destination was a good movie.

L8O1S5T
02-18-07, 04:06 PM
Demond wouldn't be able to save Eko because the actor who played Eko had to leave for personal reasons.

cinderellabop
02-18-07, 04:11 PM
Demond wouldn't be able to save Eko because the actor who played Eko had to leave for personal reasons.

You are aware that there's a difference between the plot of the show and the politics behind it, right? I'm saying, plot-wise, why didn't Desmond try to save Eko? We all know the reasons he was written out, I'm just trying to find the logic in the storyline.

Lostender
02-18-07, 04:18 PM
We dont fully understand how his "flashes" work yet, it could be that charlie has a greater purpose on this island, and eko had already served his.

drabauer
02-18-07, 05:22 PM
Cinderellabop, I think the visions's focus on Charlie is highly suspicious, and a good argument for some outside intervention in Desmond's flashforwards. Or of course the shibboleth of bad writing!

RunLoganRun
02-18-07, 06:24 PM
Nope - Charlie wasn't in the hatch when it exploded. That's why he survived. Please don't mention information that has not appeared on the show - spoiler tags are required.

ETA - Thanks Brian for fixing the first post.

YouAllEverybody
02-19-07, 02:55 PM
Well, if you remember all of the Tallies have been killed off except Bernard who was originally with the Losties on the front of the plane before going to the back before the plane ripped in half, and Charlie was suppose to be a tallie until he ran to the front of the plane to use the bathroom...his first way of cheating death mayhaps..Bernard was suppose to be where Charlie was and vice versa, hence why Bernard was only tallie to survive and the grim reaper is after Charlie

Hodgepodge
02-20-07, 07:23 PM
Moving to the Character Interactions forum. Please follow the link and continue the discussion there.