I really dislike the way TPTB continually beat up on Locke.

[AceOfDiamonds]

Does Locke make mistakes? Of course. Should Locke make mistakes? He's only human. But the most recent preview seems to suggest that TPTB are going to blame Locke of yet another critical mistake that's going to threaten everyone's lives. TPTB are like on a vendetta to make Locke the epitome of failure, and characterize all "men of faith" as losers and lunatics.

Apparently being responsible for destroying the Swan hatch (for rather ludicrous manufactured reasons, IMO; Locke loved to push the button back when everyone thought it was just an experiment, but he just so happens to begin despising the button when it's revealed it actually does save the world) wasn't enough. Nnnnoooo, TPTB are going to blame yet ANOTHER catastrophe on Locke.

It's just sickening that Terry O'Quinn's been saddled with this bullcrap. As a Locke fan from way back in Season One, it just disappoints me to see TPTB beat the crap out of my favorite character over, and over, and over again, while Matthew Fox's Jack can never do anything wrong, because he's Jack, and he never has to take responsibility for his mistakes, because he's the heeeero.

[boonian androphile]

Without knowing the actual events, I would say yes I would be tired of another Locke stumbling around causing massive explosions or other calamities. What bugs me more actually is we dont see him (or Sayid) doing much of anything. What would have been wrong with a couple of excursions once Hurley returned. Worse than making mistakes of actions, Locke (and others) are making mistakes of inaction. Maybe it's PTSD??? Explosions will do that.

[sweetsunray]

LOcke and Sayid's inaction is relative. Look at the timeline
day 67 - hatch implodes // Jack, Kate and Saywer are taken by the Others, Hurley's released
day 69 - Locke gets back to camp after the implosion (probably out for a day, like Desmond), can't talk, does his sweat lodge stuff, on his way to save Eko, meet Hurley returning and learns the news about Jack, Kate and Sawyer being taken, saves Eko, gives his speech // Sayid, Sun and Jin set up the trap to lure Others, Colleen gets shot // Kate and Sawyer start their first day of cutting rocks -> Note that Locke is not able to do much at all at this point, since there aren't that many heavy-guns characters on the beach, except for Eko who's unconscious, and Desmond seems to be nuts
day 70 - Sawyer gets a "pacemaker" (not), Colleen dies and Jack sees the Xrays, Desmond saves CHarlie from being toasted by lightning
day 71 - Sayid, Sun and Jin return "home", but Eko disappears in the night while he was supposedly still wounded by the polar bear attack, and unconscious // Sawyer learns about being on Alactraz // Jack is present at Colleen's funeral
day 72 - Locke and Sayid (along with Paolo and Nikki) go after Eko and see if they can make an attempt to communicate with the Others (there's an action excursion, at the first possible moment they were able to), they see Patchy, and they end up burying Eko after he's killed by Smokey // Juliet gives her TV-screen message to Jack with the request to kill Ben, Jack still refuses, Kate's asked to convince Jack in order to save Sawyer, he still refuses // Kate and Sawyer have sex
day 73 - Jack operates Ben and pulls his nicking trick // Kate and Sawyer escape, and make it across to Craphole island // Desmond saves Claire (and Charlie) from drowning and tells Charlie he's gonna die no matter what Desmond will try to protect him
day 74 - Sawyer lets Carl go. Kate and him start their track back to the beach // Juliet is marked and the Others along with Jack go to Otherville
day 75 - Kate and Sawyer arrive back at Losties beach. Kate goes in search of Danielle, with Locke and Sayid trailing her

So, all in all, Locke and Sayid have been inactive for 2 days. Yeah, neither Sayid and Locke are as get-go as Kate is, but 2 days isn't apathy either.

[boonian androphile]

I have seen this well thought out timeline before!

But perception is everything. The story also includes one's thinking about between weekly (and sometimes monthly and seasonal) episodes. To paraphrase a comment elsewhere, sometimes the show's pace has the feel of sludge.

Again, though, a simple moment spent on Locke and Sayid and whoever at least having a chat about what to do after Jin Sun and Sayid returned from the failed boat trip. Something...

But returning to Locke specifically, he wears the mark of dupe. I guess if we would see him more often, we may form a more inclusive opinion.

[sweetsunray]

I have seen this well thought out timeline before!

But perception is everything. The story also includes one's thinking about between weekly (and sometimes monthly and seasonal) episodes. To paraphrase a comment elsewhere, sometimes the show's pace has the feel of sludge.

That's why I prefer to watch the epis in series one after the other on DVD. Actually that's how I started to watch Lost, living in Belgium, that means I didn't get to see the first DVD until the fall of 2005. I didn't get to see S2 until the fall of 2006, right about the time when S3 started in the US. And until I discovered a site where I can watch those epis a couple of weeks back, I'm so happy to finally be up to date (well 1 day later than aired), that I'm not really bothered at all by the 1 week waiting time in between. Before ABC website was so very tempting with watching it via internet, but then always said that since I'm not located in the US I don'get to watch it. Itunes shop in Belgium doesn't allow me to download either, and I can't enlist in another Itunes shop. :mad: Anyway, in the way I started out watching Lost, the one week of waiting doesn't make me think, "why aren't they doing anything." And if I do, I check that timeline and then that feeling goes away.

[sgtdraino]

But the most recent preview seems to suggest that TPTB are going to blame Locke of yet another critical mistake that's going to threaten everyone's lives.
Now now, let's not jump to conclusions. We know how misleading and over-the-top these promos can be. We see Locke pushing buttons on a computer, apparently the buttons needed to "initiate communication with the mainland." We see Sayid reacting to that action, but we really don't know if there's anything ultimately bad to it or not.

TPTB are like on a vendetta to make Locke the epitome of failure, and characterize all "men of faith" as losers and lunatics.

It does sometimes seem that way. :) On the other hand, sometimes the show shows their faith to be borne out, and shows the men of science being the ones in error.

Apparently being responsible for destroying the Swan hatch (for rather ludicrous manufactured reasons, IMO;

Agreed. But we still don't know what ultimately happened. I think "The Island" wanted Desmond to turn that failsafe key, and getting Locke to break the computer was the only way to do it. In a way, Locke may have been serving his faith without even knowing it.

Nnnnoooo, TPTB are going to blame yet ANOTHER catastrophe on Locke.

Maybe not. It would really piss me off it they did, though. Locke is due for a real win.

As a Locke fan from way back in Season One, it just disappoints me to see TPTB beat the crap out of my favorite character over, and over, and over again,

Yeah, I feel that way sometimes. Screwing over my character is about the one way tptb might ever manage to lose me as a viewer.

while Matthew Fox's Jack can never do anything wrong, because he's Jack, and he never has to take responsibility for his mistakes, because he's the heeeero.

Seems to me Jack makes LOTS of mistakes, which actually surprises me, since tptb have to write those mistakes too. It is irritating that he keeps being pushed on us as "the hero" of the show though. To me Jack is a paranoid antisocial pompous hothead, borderline psychotic.

But returning to Locke specifically, he wears the mark of dupe. I guess if we would see him more often, we may form a more inclusive opinion.

I dunno if there's any bigger Locke cheerleader than me, but even I will admit that it's entirely possible that Locke IS being duped, by Smokey/The Island. The entity did heal him, and has provided him and the 815s real help in the past, BUT it has also directly or indirectly killed or attempted to kill several of the 815s:

The Pilot: Chewed him up.
Boone: Engineered the situation that led to his death.
Eko: Smashed him to death.
Hurley: Possibly appeared as Dave to make him jump off a cliff.
Jack: Possibly appeared as Christian to make him fall off a cliff.
Shannon: Possibly appeared as Walt to get her shot.

It seems clear to me that the entity has also given Locke false, misleading, or vague information in the past in order to trick him into doing something he wouldn't have otherwise done.

Too vague about "bloody Boone" and the plane.
The computer breaks and Desmond flees, Locke: "This wasn't supposed to happen."
Leads Locke the The Pearl in order to take the rest of his faith, to get him to smash the computer.

This entity, whatever intelligence is behind it, does not play fair. It remains to be seen whether its ultimate intentions are good, bad, or simply insane. In season 1, tptb did a good job of keeping Locke's motives ambiguous. Is he good, evil, or insane? At this point, I think it's pretty clear that Locke is a good guy. BUT he still could turn out to be a good guy that is being misled by an entity that is bad or insane. Dunno yet! :)

[Jimothy - Dude!]

If Locke makes mistakes he makes mistakes. Don't blame the writers for writing the show in a way you don't like just because you feel obliged to stick by Locke. The guys a lving mistake.

[sgtdraino]

If Locke makes mistakes he makes mistakes.

Correct.

Don't blame the writers for writing the show in a way you don't like

??? Of course I'm going to blame the writers, if they write the show in a way I don't like! :) Creating a show that we like is part of their job.

just because you feel obliged to stick by Locke. The guys a lving mistake.

Already had and won this argument. And it is entirely legitimate to point out when characters are doing things that seem out-of-character. This is fiction, written by writers, and writers are not perfect. If they write something dumb, or cause a character to do something that character would ordinarily never do, then critiquing the writers' performance is what we should do. It is through feedback from the audience that writers may realize their mistakes and correct problems. Sometimes as writers, you become so close to the work that it's hard to be impartial about what's working and not working. Hence the Ana-lucia debacle.

[Jimothy - Dude!]

or cause a character to do something that character would ordinarily never do
Ah? The writers write the show and its up to us to take on board what the writers write and form opinions based on this.
Who are you to say the character shoudn't be doing what he does?

[boonian androphile]

I agree with Sgt. Draino. This show especially has presented characters and plot and general writing in such a way that criticism of these and more is a valid way to observe the show. I always enjoy LOST on a basic level, but the show is often erratic to the point of implausibility. Locke is a prime example of a character who has been transformed and retransformed to fit the needs of the story.

[sgtdraino]

Heh. Boy, does the above statement ring true now! We go from expert tracker and master of observation, to can't find a door under a rug. Boo on you, writers!

[boonian androphile]

OMG! A post of mine which Sgt Draino hasnt fisked! God bless you, Sgt!:)

[Homer Noodleman]

I really dislike the way TPTB continually beat up on Locke.

I quite enjoy his unbriddled boobosity. :)

[sgtdraino]

OMG!

That stands for "oh my goodness." :) Wait a second, that's... internet speak! BAN HIMMMMM!!! ;)

A post of mine

Is a post still yours after you posted it? Or does it belong to the board owners?

which Sgt Draino

That's me. There's only one.

hasnt fisked!

You mispelled "fixed." I would have fixed it, but I'm not a Mod, so I don't have the power to edit your post. ;)

God bless you, Sgt!:)

God bless us, every one!

I quite enjoy his unbriddled boobosity. :)

The Island told me you'd say that. It was an off-screen HAVID I had the other day. It was awesome.

[boonian androphile]

:rotfl: :rotfl: