Nod to Homer

[LostInWilderness]

If Sayid lifting that carpet to expose Locke as a fool isn't a nod to Homer, Leuthen and Hodge will eat Homer's shorts. ;)

[Brian]

Hey, I didn't volunteer for that bet. ;) :)

I have to admit though, Locke hanging around in the other room reminded me way too much of S2.

[Homer Noodleman]

Find a new hatch -- play chess. Find an Other -- play chess. Stand guard? Naw, play chess. After huge fight and Klughocide -- play chess. Ka-boom!

What a boob.

[sgtdraino]

Gotta go with Homer on this one, Locke was not on his game today. It is irritating how sometimes the writers make him super-perceptive, and other times not observant at all.

In Locke's defence, The Flame fell prey to the continuing trend of the 815s not sharing information with each other. The fact that the whole place is WIRED WITH EXPLOSIVES is a little detail you might want to share with the other members of your team!

Locke was also right in telling Sayid not to let Klugh and Patchy talk to each other.

[Brian]

In Locke's defence, The Flame fell prey to the continuing trend of the 815s not sharing information with each other. The fact that the whole place is WIRED WITH EXPLOSIVES is a little detail you might want to share with the other members of your team!

Locke was also right in telling Sayid not to let Klugh and Patchy talk to each other.

Good points indeed.

Considering what happened in S2 when he got stuck in a hatch somewhere, I'd rather see him blow 'em up all day long. With all that C4 and electronics, Sayid should have told Locke not to touch anything, including that stupid computer. Nothing ever good comes of Locke coupled with a computer.

[boonian androphile]

Locke gave into his obsessive-compulsive personality disorder. Has it really been about destiny? Or has it been about reorganizing the world in his own meticulous image? Can't keep away from that keyboard! Chess: a game of squares within a square. Chess: a game of order.

In the end, Locke was an idiot and mostly unreliable. At least he blew up the hatch. He wins points for that!
:10: :clap: :worshippy :winner:

[LostInWilderness]

Hey, I didn't volunteer for that bet. ;) :)

I have to admit though, Locke hanging around in the other room reminded me way too much of S2.
Hodge will probably still fall for it.
Gotta go with Homer on this one, Locke was not on his game today. It is irritating how sometimes the writers make him super-perceptive, and other times not observant at all.
You worked really hard to find something, anything, redeeming about Locke tonight. I stand by my sea change observation - this episode refuted the ambiguity of 2 and a half years. Locke was exposed as a boob. Now, TPTB may reintroduce the ambiguity later, but I can't think of any other reasonable explanation for this episode other than TPTB wanted to clarify a lot of things, including Locke is a boob. The Locke of the first half of season 1 that we all fell in love with because he was so studdly ;) was a fake. It was misdirection.
Locke gave into his obsessive-compulsive personality disorder. Has it really been about destiny? Or has it been about reorganizing the world in his own meticulous image? Can't keep away from that keyboard! Chess: a game of squares within a square. Chess: a game of order.

In the end, Locke was an idiot and mostly unreliable. At least he blew up the hatch. He wins points for that!
:10: :clap: :worshippy :winner:
Shame to say you can't even credit Locke with intending that. It was a mistake.

[Susan B Anthony]

For the first time in 2.5 years I am getting on board with the "writers screwed up" bandwagon.

In the past, I have been able to at least justify Locke's actions with his personality as we have been led to see it. Locke's un-admirable acts up to now could be credited to his obsessive personality, his chase after his destiny, his sulking because he doesn't like his destiny, even his descent into self-pity because he doesn't have a destiny. Last night was the first time I have seen the writers intentionally showing Locke as stupid. Some examples:

1) Locke didn't appear at the initial fight with Patchy until it was over and Kate (who is being remade as super-warrior) had Patchy at gunpoint.

2) Sayid's unveiling of the trapdoor after Locke's proclamation that he had thoroughly searched the place.

3) Locke abandoning guard duty to play video games, not noticing that Patchy, only 10 feet from him, was escaping his ropes.

The reason I feel TPTB are intentionally fulfilling Homer's vision of Locke, is that they could have achieved the plot-objectives without Locke seeming like an idiot.

I think that Locke fiddling with the computer and typing in "77" actually is in character with obsessive, I'm-finding-my-destiny Locke. I even think destroying their best chance of contact with the outside world (intentional or not) is in character. Locke doesn't want to leave the island and wants to fulfill his destiny there. I am all for the tension of Locke having his own agenda and not being trustworthy to help his fellow 815s along in their quest to go home. But this is the first time he has come across as an air-head.

My fear is that if they don't put some meat back on the character, TOQ is going to get sick of it and move on to better roles.:(

p.s. I also think Sayid marching un-armed into the courtyard without sharing his suspicion that there was more than one hostile was out of character, and frankly more in character with Locke, but more on that in the Character Interaction forum.

[Khan]

As I've said before and will say again, Locke knew what he was doing when he entered 77. He doesn't want to leave the Island and he doesn't want anyone outside help rescuing the Losties. He not only believes his destiny is there he thinks thier destiny is there as well.
People familiar with military strategy or even video games knows what happens when a vital center is about to be taken by the enemy. You never let sensitive material fall into thier hands, you destroy everything you can and as many of the enemy as possible. That's why that station was wired to explode, Locke figured it out, the key was press 77 if hostiles are too much of threat. He wasn't waiting for Dharma backup to come to the rescue, Dharma kidnaps, tortures and kills Losties he knows that, especially since they were warned to stay away from certain areas.
He wanted to make sure no one gets off the Island, his belief is thier destiny is there and when he has the opportunity to prevent outside communication he does, knocking Sayid showed us his intent in S1.

[sgtdraino]

For the first time in 2.5 years I am getting on board with the "writers screwed up" bandwagon.

Yep. Is this even the same character that "cleaned up his own mess" just a few episodes ago in "Further Instructions?" Or led an expedition to The Pearl in "Cost of Living?"

Last night was the first time I have seen the writers intentionally showing Locke as stupid.

Completely agreed, Susan B. He wasn't even leading the trek through the jungle, Sayid was in front. He even asks Sayid for a compass bearing, where back in Season 1 he didn't seem to need one even in the dark. There is no other explanation, except that in this episode, the writers set out to make Locke look stupid. I wonder why? It seems clear the character is being set up for something. Seems to me that whatever it is Locke is being set up to do is going to be either really stupid, or something extraordinarily clever (since that's what we wouldn't expect, at this point).

Some examples:

1) Locke didn't appear at the initial fight with Patchy until it was over and Kate (who is being remade as super-warrior) had Patchy at gunpoint.

2) Sayid's unveiling of the trapdoor after Locke's proclamation that he had thoroughly searched the place.

3) Locke abandoning guard duty to play video games, not noticing that Patchy, only 10 feet from him, was escaping his ropes.

The reason I feel TPTB are intentionally fulfilling Homer's vision of Locke, is that they could have achieved the plot-objectives without Locke seeming like an idiot.

Correct. I can't and won't argue with these. The only smart thing Locke did this episode, was yelling at Sayid not to let Klugh and Patchy talk to each other.

I think that Locke fiddling with the computer and typing in "77" actually is in character with obsessive, I'm-finding-my-destiny Locke. I even think destroying their best chance of contact with the outside world (intentional or not) is in character.

I would disagree with this. In fact, I think Locke's motives on the computer were to establish communication and get help. The first menu choice he makes is to establish communication with the mainland. When this fails, he tries other options. He has no idea the place is wired to blow, so in my mind, "has your position been overrun?" implies activation of a distress call or alarm to get help. "77" wasn't exactly labeled "blow yourself up." :) Which in itself doesn't make a lick o' sense. The charges in the basement weren't hidden in the slightest. They were simple explosives wired to be detonated electrically. If 77 is "self destruct," why isn't it labeled as such? And why be vague/deceptive about it, when your explosives aren't hidden? And why have the option protected via computer encryption? You don't need a computer to detonate those charges, they're right there in the open for you to do whatever you want with them. The premise doesn't make sense. This episode had some really decent plot advancement, but also had some really shoddy writing.

Locke doesn't want to leave the island and wants to fulfill his destiny there.

Correct, but he's already demonstrated that he doesn't care if other 815ers leave. Heck, he helped push the raft into the ocean.

My fear is that if they don't put some meat back on the character, TOQ is going to get sick of it and move on to better roles.:(

As he damn well should. lol. Unless this season we're going for the ambivalence of "is he an idiot or isn't he?" Ugh. Jack is an irritating character, but least he's consistent. Locke is all over the board, and it's pissing me off at the show.

p.s. I also think Sayid marching un-armed into the courtyard without sharing his suspicion that there was more than one hostile was out of character,

As was the idiocy of Sayid failing to tell everybody concerned to stay away from that computer, once he spotted those explosive charges wired electronically. That computer was the only device Sayid had observed capable of setting off those charges. At least Sayid knew the computer was there and operating, Locke had no inkling of the explosives.

[blue sunrise]

If Sayid lifting that carpet to expose Locke as a fool isn't a nod to Homer, Leuthen and Hodge will eat Homer's shorts. ;)
:D Sayid's expression said, "Boob." loud and clear.

[Susan B Anthony]

An inkling of hope (or a grasp at a straw):

I picked this up from other threads, but I think it merits mention here. Locke looked at the camera focused on him, and I believe there was a red light on, indicating it was hot. Then when Mikhail said the computer cheats, Locke noted that computers can't cheat, only people can. Maybe Locke knew he was not playing a computer, but actually a person on the other end of the computer. I believe Locke wants to make contact with the Others, and this would advance that goal.

Question for you Sgt. Draino, you say Locke's intention is to "establish communications and get help." Communications with who? And help from who? Yes, he did press the numbers to establish communication with the mainland, but you notice he didn't say, "Hey, Sayid & Kate! Come quick! I think we might be able to talk to the mainland!"

What do you make of the fact that Locke wasn't interested in talking to Mikhail?

[Island Hobo]

I can't even defend Locke anymore, in my opinion last night's episode was the worst in LOST history. It was completely lame, now that they've ruined Locke LOST can no longer be called my favorite show. And now that they used a Sayid episode to attack Locke I'm gonna have to drop my Sayid avatar..

[boonian androphile]

It was a Sayid episode. All point of view (except for pingpong) was from Sayid. Sayid has always felt that Locke is often mistaken in perceptions and actions. Locke's actions in this episode merely reconfirmed Sayid's impression of Locke: Locke is a loose cannon with his own agenda and motivations.

Even if Locke wanted to communicate with specific people to advance his cause of finding his destiny within the island center (btw Locke---it's the island where to find such things, not the Others' farmer outpost) he certainly bungled at interpreting the intent of the failsafe message. I saw this dharma face communication as "push the self-destruct button." It was obvious that the place was going to blow. Locke has hatch-tunnel vision and was caught up in the ecstatic moment of finding another computer to play with.
:compwoes:

[sgtdraino]

Even if Locke wanted to communicate with specific people to advance his cause of finding his destiny within the island center he certainly bungled at interpreting the intent of the failsafe message.

I think your perception is colored by the preview, and by the knowledge that there are exposives in the basement, knowledge which Locke wasn't privy to.

I saw this dharma face communication as "push the self-destruct button." It was obvious that the place was going to blow.

Was it? Let's review, from Locke's perspective only. Patchy is tied up, apparently a hostile posing as DHARMA. Sayid and Kate are in the basement, doing who knows what. Locke beats the chess game, and this is what he hears:

CANDLE: Manual overide achieved. For palet drop, enter 24. For station uplink, enter 32. For mainland communication, enter 38.

Locke enters 38, for mainland communication.

CANDLE: The satellite dish is inoperable. Communications are down. For SONAR access, enter 56.

Locke enters 56, for SONAR access. A backup comm system to the dish? A distress beacon?

CANDLE: SONAR is inoperable. Has there been an incursion on the station by the hostiles? If so, enter 77.

Locke hesitates, and at this moment, is taken prisoner by Patchy. Plot ensues, stuff happens, Patchy is subdued. Then we have a BIG time jump, from day all the way to night. Kate is collecting things from the basement, Locke is back at the computer. No mention of explosives. He apparently didn't go down in the basement, Sayid notes he didn't get anything later, and Locke says he only played the game again.

CANDLE: Has there been an incursion on the station by the hostiles? If so, enter 77.

Locke apparently enters 77, setting off the time-delayed destruction of The Flame. He goes outside, catches up with Sayid, and talks to Patchy:

LOCKE: Actually, I just played that silly chess game again. And now, I realize why you didn't want me to beat it.

The Flame expodes, surprising the hell out of everybody including Locke.

SAYID: What have you done, John? That place was our one hope of communication with the outside world!

LOCKE: The computer said if there was an incursion by the hostiles, I should enter 77. So I entered 77.

Sayid's comment is, I think, intentionally ironic. It seems to me, communicating with the outside world is just what Locke was trying to accomplish.

Heh. If I was Locke, I'd say, "Why didn't you tell me the place was wired with explosives, Sayid?" And then, if I were Kate, I'd punch 'em both in the balls for not sharing information.

[Homer Noodleman]

Locke doesn't know his butt from a hole in the ground. He was just mindlessly doing whatever they guy on the TV told him to do. If Candle had said to jump in place on one foot and crow like a rooster, then we would have had a scene of Locke hopping up and down going "bwak, bwak" as Kate, Sayid, Patchy, Danielle and Ms Klugh looked on scratching their heads in bewilderment.

He has no wisdom, and never has -- that was the whole point of the scene in the Australian tour office in Walkabout. Earlier he had gas bagged on to his boss, "Norman Croucher. Norman Croucher, double amputee, no legs. He climbed to the top of Mt. Everest. Why? It was his destiny."

Meanwhile Locke, with a freaking tour bus boarding in that background for his 'mystical' walkabout, is foiled at the drop of a hat. Would Norman Croucher, double amputee, have even wasted his time on an Australian version of a dude ranch (care for some more dingaroo stew mate?) much less have been foiled by the first obstacle? Locke, loser and blowhard that he is, does nothing but fume and buy an airplane ticket back to his cubicle and his creeped out phonesex operator/pretend girlfriend.

The wirters aren't screwing up Locke, he been written as a buffoon since day one (endless scenes of him blubbering into his coffee as he sits outside his Dad's house and pines for his wayward kidney ring a bell?). Don't blame the writers -- Locke Lovers have just consistently ignored the obvious and fancied him a wise old geezer of the jungle.

He's a self-centered boob who keeps putting the other castaways in jeapardy with his idiotic quest for his destiny.

[Brian]

The reason I feel TPTB are intentionally fulfilling Homer's vision of Locke, is that they could have achieved the plot-objectives without Locke seeming like an idiot.

I think that pretty much sums up my feelings in a nutshell (no pun intended). I agree completely, SBA. I'm still not jumping ship though. They all made mistakes in not communicating better with each other and that's been a blanket complaint many fans have had about all of the characters damn near since S1 started; not just about Locke in particular.

[Hodgepodge]

I finally became a Homerite at the end of Enter 77. I've only got one thing to say. Locke's a boob! :cry:

[sgtdraino]

Sorry Susan B, dunno how I missed this one earlier. :)

Locke looked at the camera focused on him, and I believe there was a red light on, indicating it was hot. Then when Mikhail said the computer cheats, Locke noted that computers can't cheat, only people can. Maybe Locke knew he was not playing a computer, but actually a person on the other end of the computer.

An interesting thought. Of course, others have said Locke merely noticed the same camera they saw Patchy in before. Dunno about that, didn't Patchy supposedly break that one? And I haven't taken a close look yet, does the computer stuff we saw when we first saw Patchy on TV correspond to the stuff in that room? Is it the same room?

I believe Locke wants to make contact with the Others, and this would advance that goal.

Perhaps initially, but at the time Locke discovered the overide menu, they had already established that Patchy was himself an Other. The menu strongly implied contact with DHARMA personnel, the sames folks who are still providing food drops even now.

Question for you Sgt. Draino, you say Locke's intention is to "establish communications and get help." Communications with who? And help from who?

DHARMA. It was DHARMA who was protecting the button, which turned out to be real, it is DHARMA who is even now providing food drops to the island. From Locke's perspective, The Others have been repeatedly established to be liars, kidnappers, and murderers. DHARMA's agenda seems more closely aligned to The Island/Smokey, protecting the hatch and pushing the button.

Yes, he did press the numbers to establish communication with the mainland, but you notice he didn't say, "Hey, Sayid & Kate! Come quick! I think we might be able to talk to the mainland!"

He was pretty obviously figuring he'd find out if it worked first, before bothering anybody. And the more I think about it, the more obvious it is that Locke was attempting communication. He tries communication directly, it fails. He tries the SONAR beacon that Patchy says guides ships in, it fails. Finally he tries "77," which appears to be some kind of emergency alert alarm. The fact that there is a working camera that runs to The Pearl, indicates that a direct communications line to somewhere might still be possible. Yeah, he should have yelled out about the menu, but more than that Sayid should have yelled out "hands off the computer," as soon as he saw those explosives.

What do you make of the fact that Locke wasn't interested in talking to Mikhail?

It is puzzling, but my best guess would be that Locke knows that Sayid is the expert interrogator, and figures that if Sayid can't get anything useful out of the guy, Locke can't either. Patchy's also exposed as a liar pretty early on, and there's not a whole lot of point in asking a liar questions, unless you have some baseline or means of telling fact from fiction.

lol. Additionally, I just noticed that Sayid is the one who ties the guy up. I guess he did a piss poor job!

[Susan B Anthony]

DHARMA. It was DHARMA who was protecting the button, which turned out to be real, it is DHARMA who is even now providing food drops to the island. From Locke's perspective, The Others have been repeatedly established to be liars, kidnappers, and murderers. DHARMA's agenda seems more closely aligned to The Island/Smokey, protecting the hatch and pushing the button.


But the Others are more closely connected to the Island, being indigenous to it. This would make them of more interest to Locke than an outside agent who happens to make orientation films and drop supplies. Locke feels a connection to the Island. He feels the Island brought them all there for a reason. I agree he wants to communicate with anyone who can educate him about the Island, and thus help him understand his destiny. This includes Dharma and the Others (who may not be as separate as we are being led to believe).


lol. Additionally, I just noticed that Sayid is the one who ties the guy up. I guess he did a piss poor job!

Good point. :Cheers: It didn't take Patchy long either. I also have to wonder why Sayid was in such a hurry to take their prisoner back into the jungle. If Sayid was so sure the Flame was their best chance of communication, why not check the place out before leaving and take a run at communicating? They stayed until it was dark, so there was time to look around, and for Sayid to at least have a look at the computer (unless Locke was saying, "just wait till I finish my game").

So do you think Sayid grabbed the Dharma Operations Manual or just left the 50 binders in the basement? My guess is the Dharma Evacuation Procedures are toast now.

[Brian]

I think the entire purpose of the DHARMA library was to further upset the fans to Locke's actions and to further the story line. In other words, irritate people even more that he'd blown up the Flame. I could almost hear every LOST fan out there yelling at their TVs saying things like, "You could have learned everything about the island with those books" and "Everything in those books could have given you an upper hand with the others/hostiles." Yeah, true. However, if those books had been allowed to continue to exist, once we learned of their existence, then it would just be all out complaining by many fans (probably myself included) saying, "Why don't you just go back and read about it/figure it out?" They had to be destroyed to further the story. Otherwise, it's game over and LOST ends. TPTB have sometimes likened it (the answering of mysteries on LOST) to Twin Peaks, once you learn who killed Laura Palmer, the show's over. There's nothing to hold the audience's attention anymore.

I think TPTB are purposely taking Locke down this path so they can make him look better in the future. (At least, that's what I hope they're doing. ;))

[sgtdraino]

But the Others are more closely connected to the Island, being indigenous to it.

We-ell, we don't actually know if they're indigenous. Heck, we know for a fact that some of them are not indigenous. We just know that they (supposedly) predate DHARMA's arrival.

This would make them of more interest to Locke than an outside agent who happens to make orientation films and drop supplies. Locke feels a connection to the Island.

He calls it "The Island," but who knows what it is? He knows that The Island wanted him to push the button, he knows that Boss Other Ben Liarness tried to get him to stop pushing it. If I were Locke, in my mind that means the Other's agenda is contrary to The Island's. Candle, on the other hand, was also a proponent of pushing the button. In theory that makes him an ally of The Island's agenda. Since he was the one representing the computer menu, obviously Locke figured he'd be contacting someone associated with Candle.

If Sayid was so sure the Flame was their best chance of communication, why not check the place out before leaving and take a run at communicating? They stayed until it was dark, so there was time to look around, and for Sayid to at least have a look at the computer.

Good point. They had all day, I dunno why Sayid would want to just leave the place wired up like that.

So do you think Sayid grabbed the Dharma Operations Manual or just left the 50 binders in the basement? My guess is the Dharma Evacuation Procedures are toast now.

The show was purposefully vague about what they took from The Flame. My guess is, depending on what sort of plot avenues they take in the future, some of those binders may turn up in Kate or Sayid's packs.

I think TPTB are purposely taking Locke down this path so they can make him look better in the future. (At least, that's what I hope they're doing. ;))

Yeah, me too. They better! :mad: But I hope like hell there's a hew and cry over Locke's behavior that tptb hear and heed. Obviously some folks disagree with me on this, but to my mind, Locke has generally been portrayed as a pretty smart fellow in the past. lol. Maybe the "sickness" is stupidity? ;) In any rate, jacking around with the character is the quickest way they can make me change the channel.

[Khan]

I will not disgree Locke is boob, after reading some posts in this thread and giving it some thought I believe he is a simpleton.
The thing is, he's one because he's too damn willful, not because he lacks intelligence, insight, talent or wisdom. All of those things are completely short circuited by his childish willful stubborness.
His relationship with his father is a great example. The man was a low life user, but when Locke found out he still set his will to make the relationship be what he wanted. He hurt himself repeatly by throwing himself against the unmovable rock of his father's uncaring selfish nature. He even lost the one love he could count because of it.
He attached himself to group of cult like drug dealers, still he wanted them to be his "family" so on went the blinders and he held on when he should have walked way before long the FBI showed up.

On the island he now has the physical ability and opportunity to live out his wildest dreams, but once again his will comes into play. Look carefully at the scenario, everyone starts new there, no one knew of his life's failures. He was admired and heroic in thier eyes. He brought meat when they were hungry, he had the knowledge of many things to help them survive and overcome thier personal inner tumoils. His skills are even more valuable than Jack's since he doesn't need modern medicines, tools, etc to be of real use.
He can build things, knows how to swaddle a baby, knows how to use plants in ways they don't, sees deep into thier souls, could teach them to use a knife, it goes on and on.

But what does he do? He blows it all by being willful. He decides the Island is to be what he thinks it is and everyone has to fall in line with his dream, It's "play as I say play because that's how I want it" or he'll do things like he did to Sayid when he clunked him in the head. He's not doing anything for them, everything he does is for his dream, to fulfill his fantasies. He slithers close to Claire in her lowest moment, first time mother alone, scared and shied away from by the rest of the Losties, along comes Old Uncle Locke. He makes her a cradle for the baby to come and shows interest and concern, but his real reason is to pick her brain for information on the Island, his true interest. He defends her when she fears Charlie, but I think it was only to get close to Aaron since the Others want him, which again goes back to the Island.
He has so much talent and capacity to be all he wants and more but he can't see beyond his childish stubborn will to make things and people be and do what he wants. Look at how he wastes all of his gifts , that make him a boob, since he willingly destroys every opportunity to be all that is within him to be.

[sgtdraino]

I will not disgree Locke is boob,

I'll grant he was a boob in one episode, out of... what... 58 episodes? I ain't ready to flip on the character just because he was written differently all of a sudden. Maybe Cuse ate some bad Chinese food that week, or something. ;)

The thing is, he's one because he's too damn willful, not because he lacks intelligence, insight, talent or wisdom. All of those things are completely short circuited by his childish willful stubborness.

If Locke has a weakness (and everyone does) I would actually argue the opposite. Locke isn't too willful, he's too impressionable. Too easily led by the nose, by his father, by that commune, by that undercover cop, and yes, even by The Island. He has too much faith in the goodness of others, and he cuts others more slack than he should. Locke is too naive. He's not suspicious enough.

His relationship with his father is a great example. The man was a low life user, but when Locke found out he still set his will to make the relationship be what he wanted. He hurt himself repeatly by throwing himself against the unmovable rock of his father's uncaring selfish nature.

I know this has been debated before, but that is not my take on Locke's relationship with his father. Once Locke's dad revealed himself to be a lowlife, Locke wasn't looking for a relationship, he was simply looking for the "why." Locke as a character is one who seeks to understand things, and his father is no exception.

He even lost the one love he could count because of it.

That is certainly Helen's perspective of it, that Locke was incapable of letting go of his father. But Helen didn't have the whole story. I am still convinced that Locke got the money for his father not for love or attachment, but as a final act of letting go. A selfless act to set himself apart from his father, and prove to himself he had conquered the anger in his own heart. Forgiveness is a big part of letting go, and it is part of the tragic irony of the Locke character that his final act of letting go was interpreted in the opposite way by his true love, Helen. It's an ongoing ironic theme of this show that people's intended actions have the opposite of their intended effect. The most recent example being Locke's attempt to communicate with the mainland result in destroying the communications dish.

He attached himself to group of cult like drug dealers, still he wanted them to be his "family" so on went the blinders and he held on when he should have walked way before long the FBI showed up.

This of course is, rather than an example of willfulness, a further example of Locke being too easily influenced by others.

But what does he do? He blows it all by being willful. He decides the Island is to be what he thinks it is and everyone has to fall in line with his dream, It's "play as I say play because that's how I want it"

Locke seeks to understand The Island, as he seeks to understand everything. But if asked, I think he would freely admit that he doesn't know what the island is yet. He believes The Island killed Eko, that it killed him for a reason, but that he doesn't know what the reason is. That's true, and honest.

or he'll do things like he did to Sayid when he clunked him in the head.

I don't think we have enough information to tell precisely what motivated Locke to stop Sayid from hunting down the radio tower. I'm still convinced it was a HAVID. I can only guess that something truly dangerous resides in that area.

He's not doing anything for them, everything he does is for his dream, to fulfill his fantasies.

This is completely contrary to what tptb have said about the Locke character. TPTB have stated in interviews that Locke is motivated to do what he thinks is best for the 815s has a whole. His motivations are rarely selfish.

but his real reason is to pick her brain for information on the Island, his true interest.

When did this happen? If she knows something about The Island, I'm sure Locke would be interested. But from what I've observed, Locke never just pretends to help people. His help is always genuine.

He defends her when she fears Charlie, but I think it was only to get close to Aaron since the Others want him, which again goes back to the Island.

This is typical of Locke detractors, reading dark things into Locke's otherwise completely benevolent actions, that aren't really there. ;) Locke was doing just what you suggest he should do; he was being helpful.

[Susan B Anthony]

I don't think we have enough information to tell precisely what motivated Locke to stop Sayid from hunting down the radio tower. I'm still convinced it was a HAVID. I can only guess that something truly dangerous resides in that area.


Remember, this was very early on. I'm a die-hard Locke supporter, but I'll buy that he was trying to prevent, or at least delay communication with the outside world, at least until he understood more about the Island.

[Khan]

You have it wrong sgtdraino I'm not a Locke detractor. I've come to believe him to be a boob who continually destroys his chances for happiness. I think Kate's a murderer, a thief and dangerous, Charlie's a possessive, clingy drug addict who ruined his life with that crap, Desmond's a drunk, Shannon was a whinney brat, Eko probably had the highest body count as a murderer , but I'm not a detractor of any of those characters they add to show. I'm one of the founders of SASSAFRASS a club dedicated to Sawyer, but I freely admit he's murdered, he's a thief and a con man which has no doubt caused a number of people a lot of hurt, the man has deep problems.

Now that AnaL is dead there is only one character that I'm a detractor of and that's Jackass. The rest are characters who can make you want to slap them hard enough to reset the stupid buttons in thier heads because of thier behavior, but they are characters who add to the show and most are worth keeping. To me a detractor is someone who cannot find anything in a character worth watching and that character is not valid at all, he/she becomes one that is best written off because detract from the show.

I hope Locke makes it to the end, I think Lost is about redemption, if not that entirely it is a strong theme running thoughout the show, and I like to see what Locke would be if he overcame his very serious flaws.

[LostInWilderness]

It was a Sayid episode. All point of view (except for pingpong) was from Sayid. Sayid has always felt that Locke is often mistaken in perceptions and actions. Locke's actions in this episode merely reconfirmed Sayid's impression of Locke: Locke is a loose cannon with his own agenda and motivations.
The narrator is significantly unreliable, so this makes sense, especially in light of the information that Locke was carrying C4 tonight. I stand by my premise that TPTB made Locke out to be a boob as a nod to Homer.

As always, they love to throw ambiguity into the equation. Useless C4, except to make everybody but Homer doubt.

[boonian androphile]

Locke's mission is to destroy the hatches. I have paid him to do so. I promised him his father's love, a replacement kidney, and a cup of :coffeedunk:

[Jack T Kirk]

Locke likes dogs.

[LPU]

Well, we should get plenty enough insight from tomorrows episode to further this debate, if not settle it.

[sgtdraino]

Well, we should get plenty enough insight from tomorrows episode to further this debate, if not settle it.

It was an awesome ep, but probably won't settle anything. :) The WHY of blowing the sub is still very much up in the air. Sure, Ben says he did it to escape his dad, but if you believe what Ben says, I've got a bridge to sell you.

Personally, I feel avenged. It has been made clear that Locke was set on this particular mission for quite some time now, and accomplished that mission quite competently. Ben conned him? Nonsense, he was doing it regardless of what Ben said. Ben may have used the situation to his benefit, but that's to be expected. Ben is an opportunist.

This ep also once again showed Locke exhibiting knowledge he should have no conventional means of knowing. He's not all-knowing of course, but I think this episode reinforced the notion that he's receiving insight from The Island.

[Susan B Anthony]

I wondered when you were going to weigh in on this epi, Sarge. Like you, I feel my loyalty has been vindicated.

I also find it interesting that the Locke detractors have been pretty much silenced. :nanabobo:

Thinking back to my own reaction to "Enter 77," I am now more convinced than ever that tptb were intentionally trying to make Locke look stupid in that episode, just to make his comeback in "Tallahassee" that much more striking.

Either way, I'm on :cloud_9: . I think Ben makes a much more worthy foil for Locke, because he can match Locke in intelligence and imagination. Jack has always been limited because he is chained to science, which means he will never be able to fully appreciate or experience the Island. It will be nice to get an opponent for Locke that gives us more than, "Shut up, stupid." Let's just hope we continue on this track.

[dharma 3]

no doubt locke's a boob but hes grown on recently. hes a bit like dog, follows in the wake of sayid and kate, grows at jack and occasionaly blows up what ever chanse of rescue comes hes way. in fact i can kind off imagin sayid saying bad locke you shouldent of distroyd the staff, like you have the swan, the flame, the submarine boone,patchy......

[sgtdraino]

Ooooooookay... :rolleyez: