Locke is not finished blowing things up!

[Pacman 23]

Locke definitely had an opinion of the "other's" lifestyle being a "cheat". He asked about the power source remember? I think his goal is to completely eradicate the island of ALL its technology. I believe HE believes that is what the island wants him to do. He had a need to "purify" the island. He'll be looking for those "two hamsters on a wheel" any day now I'm sure.

[merry slug]

Good point - why would Locke consider using power etc... on the island a "cheat"? It must have something to do with what he feels the island is or does.

I bet the radio tower is in jeopardy too.

[interplanetjanet]

But where will he get more C-4? Or are we back to dynamite. (The logic of keeping the C-4 at the comms does escape me.)

When we found the C-4, I figured that he wasn't mad Sayid didn't tell him the place could blow, he was mad Sayid didn't tell him there was a lot more C-4 he could steal to blow up lots more stuff.

[dharmapup2]

Locke seems to be the only one to understand the mysical significance of the island. Although he is seemingly messing up by destroying seemingly important power sources I really believe that ultimately what he is doing may be what saves them all.

[boonian androphile]

There are a few more dangerous hatches that require demolition. I bet Locke has dynamite stashes just as Charlie had/has heroin ones. Locke plans for his future need to rule the Island Kingdom.



:blowup: :blowup: :blowup: :blowup:

[merry slug]

I bet Locke has dynamite stashes just as Charlie had/has heroin ones.

:yeah: Or he's just counting on the Others having some tucked away somewhere. The island will show him where.

[Jessicaswanlake]

If Locke really wanted to go Luddite, then he would not have used the facilities at the Swan Station. Taking showers, listening to records and using washing machines don't exactly buy one Island Survival points.

That being said, someone better make sure the matches and household cleaners are kept under lock and key or else he'll build flaming dishtowel bombs to destroy other offensive "cheater" items, like Jack's piano and the pinball games in the rec center............

[merry slug]

If Locke really wanted to go Luddite, then he would not have used the facilities at the Swan Station. Taking showers, listening to records and using washing machines don't exactly buy one Island Survival points.


Good point. Maybe his recent dislike for "technology" is a result of a change in his attitude towards the island. Beacuse of the hatch blowing up? (the first one, I mean :D)

[DharmaUdonNoodles]

I'm wondering if the lack of communications, beacon, sub, etc will mean the end of the food drops? Okay now you will have all of these people who can't leave & having to live off of island-only foods. Is it going to be everyone vs. Locke? or is it going to be those who want to stay on the island (because they believe they are healed by it) vs. those who want to leave?

[merry slug]

I'm wondering if the lack of communications, beacon, sub, etc will mean the end of the food drops? Okay now you will have all of these people who can't leave & having to live off of island-only foods. Is it going to be everyone vs. Locke? or is it going to be those who want to stay on the island (because they believe they are healed by it) vs. those who want to leave?

I wondered about the food drops too. I'm guessing here, but I'm thinking that, until Locke pushed 77, the mainland assumed Dharma was still active (at least in some way), and thus dropped the food. There may not be anymore after this.

[Hodgepodge]

I'm trying to get a feel for Locke's last havid. The one he self-induced with his homemade sweat lodge. Because, I think Pacman 23 brings up a good point. Is that what Locke has decided the island wants? To go back to a time when "it" was pristine? Without all of the hatches and technology?

[dzt66]

I'm trying to get a feel for Locke's last havid. The one he self-induced with his homemade sweat lodge. Because, I think Pacman 23 brings up a good point. Is that what Locke has decided the island wants? To go back to a time when "it" was pristine? Without all of the hatches and technology?

Why don't I think of stuff like this? You guys have such insight! There are so many things about last night that I just can't wrap my mind around. I could barely sleep!

[mjgill85]

I'm trying to get a feel for Locke's last havid. The one he self-induced with his homemade sweat lodge. Because, I think Pacman 23 brings up a good point. Is that what Locke has decided the island wants? To go back to a time when "it" was pristine? Without all of the hatches and technology?

Thanks to spooky:

-----------------------------------------------------------
[Inside the sweat lodge we see Locke eat some of what's in the bowl and ladle some water onto hot stones. Suddenly someone grabs Locke's shoulder and the camera reveals Boone in the sweat lodge with Locke.]

BOONE: Hi, John. It's good to see you again. [Locke wants to speak, but can't] What's that, John? [Locke mouths/whispers: I'm sorry] Oh, you're sorry. That's okay. I was the sacrifice the island demanded. [Locke mouths something else] Don't worry; you'll speak when you have something worth saying. I'm here to help you find your way again. So you can bring the family back together. Come on, I want to show you something.

[Locke tries to move, but his leg doesn't work. He looks at Boone, panic stricken, and tries to move his leg again.]

BOONE [pointing off camera]: John, you're going to need that.

[We see a wheelchair lying on its side with the wheel spinning. We see trippy flashes of superimposed images of Locke's face. We see the wheel chair rolling along with Locke at the Sydney airport, Boone pushing him.]

BOONE: John, someone in this airport is in serious danger. You are the only one who can save them.

[We see Charlie and Claire cooing over Aaron and Locke points at them.]

BOONE: Not them, they'll be fine -- for a while.

[Locke sees Sayid, Sun and Jin. He points as Jin and Sun argue. Sayid pats Jin's back.]

BOONE: I think Sayid's got it.

[Locke sees Hurley working as an Oceanic counter person. Hurley types the numbers into the computer.]

BOONE: Not Hurley.

[Locke sees Desmond dressed as a pilot walking and laughing with some beautiful flight attendants.]

BOONE: Forget it. He's helping himself.

[Locke sees Kate and Sawyer, very chummy in line. He sees Jack going through a metal detector, and getting wanded by Ben. Locke starts waving his arm frantically.]

BOONE: There's nothing you can do for them. Not yet. First you have to clean up your own mess.

[We can hear "clean up your own mess" being repeated in the background. Boone stares intently into Locke's face, then disappears. Locke is suddenly alone in the airport sitting at the bottom of three escalators. Boone appears at the top.]

BOONE: Come up here, John.

[We see Locke dragging himself up the escalator using his arms. When he gets to the top he puts his hand in a pool of blood and then sees Eko's stick.]

BOONE: Clean it up, John.

[We see that Boone is covered in blood with his shirt torn. He looks as he did in Locke's dream from Deus Ex Machina.]

BOONE: They've got him. You don't have much time.

[Suddenly Locke is back in the sweat lodge. He starts to leave and suddenly we see the image of a snarling polar bear's face. Locke stumbles out of the sweat lodge, frightened.]

-----------------------------------------------------------

I bolded the parts that seemed a little 'strange' to me. Could they be hints that cleaning up the mess is what Locke infers as cleaning up the island? Or is it simply that Eko going missing was down to him (Locke's mess) and he had to save him (clean up afformentioned mess)?

[mystwoman]

Locke is going firestarter. I'm not sure c4 is even involved anymore.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/187326/lock_in_the_box.html?page=3

[Hodgepodge]

...I bolded the parts that seemed a little 'strange' to me. Could they be hints that cleaning up the mess is what Locke infers as cleaning up the island? Or is it simply that Eko going missing was down to him (Locke's mess) and he had to save him (clean up afformentioned mess)?Mjgill85, thanks for pulling that dialog. And I too, thank Spooky for her transcripts.

Those bolded excerpts could imply cleaning up the island couldn't they. We've come to realize the island speaks to Locke with very little clarity. And, we've already seen what results when he misinterprets "its" actual meaning. People die!:(

[boonian androphile]

Destruction before creation. Fire before growth. Time for the Dharma/Others world to go up in flames. Go Locke Go!

:blowup:

[I Hate Seabillies]

If Locke really wanted to go Luddite, then he would not have used the facilities at the Swan Station. Taking showers, listening to records and using washing machines don't exactly buy one Island Survival points.

That being said, someone better make sure the matches and household cleaners are kept under lock and key or else he'll build flaming dishtowel bombs to destroy other offensive "cheater" items, like Jack's piano and the pinball games in the rec center............

Ah, but that was when Locke lost his way. After the Swan blow'd up, he had his smoke out/hallucination in the Peyote shack, when the island got him back on track. see the transcripts mjg posted above.

[Dagolu]

I got the gist that locke wants to eliminate all technology on the island (even sayid's radio equipment) the island would become more and more powerful the less there is electricity to destabalize it's natural electromagnetics. Locke wants to release the island, tap into it's power and become a God

[dharmapup2]

Yes..I do not think we have seen the last of John blowing things up. How long will the Losties and Others allow this until they either restrain him or until they realize he is trying to accomodate the island's "wishes" and he might end up helping...we'll see...

[Susan B Anthony]

The "bringing the family back together again" line stuck with me too. I think it means more than just bringing JK&S back from Other-katraz. Locke believes that everyone who is on the Island was brought there, so maybe "the family" includes the Others and the 815s.

I don't know that Locke intends to cleanse the Island of all technology, but just to cut off all connection with the outside world so that they will be forced to rely on the Island for everything they need.

[Hodgepodge]

The "bringing the family back together again" line stuck with me too. I think it means more than just bringing JK&S back from Other-katraz. Locke believes that everyone who is on the Island was brought there, so maybe "the family" includes the Others and the 815s. SBA, you maybe proven right! But, I'd exclude the "Others".

We all understand why Locke wants to stay on the island. That doesn't take much thought. But I couldn't understand why he'd keep anyone else from leaving. I mean, he's a grown man. If a ship came to rescue the survivors, he could just say I'm not going. He's got nothing to go home for. I don't anyone would force him off the island.

Then it dawned on me! Locke has been without a family all of his life. The survivors of flight 815 have become his family, in a word. Think about it! He considers himself like the father. What does a father do? Brings home the beacon so his family can eat. That's what he's done from day one, literally.

[DaGringo]

Thanks to spooky:

-----------------------------------------------------------
[Inside the sweat lodge we see Locke eat some of what's in the bowl and ladle some water onto hot stones. Suddenly someone grabs Locke's shoulder and the camera reveals Boone in the sweat lodge with Locke.]

BOONE: Hi, John. It's good to see you again. [Locke wants to speak, but can't] What's that, John? [Locke mouths/whispers: I'm sorry] Oh, you're sorry. That's okay. I was the sacrifice the island demanded. [Locke mouths something else] Don't worry; you'll speak when you have something worth saying. I'm here to help you find your way again. So you can bring the family back together. Come on, I want to show you something.

[Locke tries to move, but his leg doesn't work. He looks at Boone, panic stricken, and tries to move his leg again.]

BOONE [pointing off camera]: John, you're going to need that.

[We see a wheelchair lying on its side with the wheel spinning. We see trippy flashes of superimposed images of Locke's face. We see the wheel chair rolling along with Locke at the Sydney airport, Boone pushing him.]

BOONE: John, someone in this airport is in serious danger. You are the only one who can save them.

[We see Charlie and Claire cooing over Aaron and Locke points at them.]

BOONE: Not them, they'll be fine -- for a while.

[Locke sees Sayid, Sun and Jin. He points as Jin and Sun argue. Sayid pats Jin's back.]

BOONE: I think Sayid's got it.

[Locke sees Hurley working as an Oceanic counter person. Hurley types the numbers into the computer.]

BOONE: Not Hurley.

[Locke sees Desmond dressed as a pilot walking and laughing with some beautiful flight attendants.]

BOONE: Forget it. He's helping himself.

[Locke sees Kate and Sawyer, very chummy in line. He sees Jack going through a metal detector, and getting wanded by Ben. Locke starts waving his arm frantically.]

BOONE: There's nothing you can do for them. Not yet. First you have to clean up your own mess.

[We can hear "clean up your own mess" being repeated in the background. Boone stares intently into Locke's face, then disappears. Locke is suddenly alone in the airport sitting at the bottom of three escalators. Boone appears at the top.]

BOONE: Come up here, John.

[We see Locke dragging himself up the escalator using his arms. When he gets to the top he puts his hand in a pool of blood and then sees Eko's stick.]

BOONE: Clean it up, John.

[We see that Boone is covered in blood with his shirt torn. He looks as he did in Locke's dream from Deus Ex Machina.]

BOONE: They've got him. You don't have much time.

[Suddenly Locke is back in the sweat lodge. He starts to leave and suddenly we see the image of a snarling polar bear's face. Locke stumbles out of the sweat lodge, frightened.]

-----------------------------------------------------------

I bolded the parts that seemed a little 'strange' to me. Could they be hints that cleaning up the mess is what Locke infers as cleaning up the island? Or is it simply that Eko going missing was down to him (Locke's mess) and he had to save him (clean up afformentioned mess)?

I always remember this scene and come to the conclusion that it wasn't the island, it was a real hallucination that dealt with Locke's guilts and fears. I think John Locke is a metaphor for BLIND faith, and his selfish ability to screw anyone for his beliefs is very evident. Locke's killed more people on that Island than Smoky or Michael.

[juanbong]

Moving to Locke's Character Thread.

Thanks.

[sgtdraino]

I got the gist that locke wants to eliminate all technology on the island (even sayid's radio equipment) the island would become more and more powerful the less there is electricity to destabalize it's natural electromagnetics. Locke wants to release the island, tap into it's power and become a God

Locke did sound somewhat like a Luddite, but I think people are reading too much into his statement. Heck, if he were really that hardcore, would he himself be enjoying video games? Or eating chicken out of a fridge, and talking about how much he enjoys it? Heck, when Locke scolds the Others for using guns, he himself brandishes the gun that he is using! I think he was mostly saying that the island's answers will not be found in The Barracks or The Flame, but out in the jungle. It's not that the Others use technology, it's that they have become dependent on it. They don't get out as much as they need to. Home can be a wonderful and comfortable place, but you learn things by venturing outside your house.

But I couldn't understand why he'd keep anyone else from leaving. I mean, he's a grown man. If a ship came to rescue the survivors, he could just say I'm not going. He's got nothing to go home for. I don't anyone would force him off the island.

And I can't understand why people think Locke wants to prevent everyone from leaving the island, when there's still a perfectly good sailboat around. Well, okay, I can understand. People misinterpret Locke's actions all the time! :) The only thing blowing up the submarine did, was prevent Jack from leaving at that specific time. I don't know why, but I think it was important to do that.

I always remember this scene and come to the conclusion that it wasn't the island, it was a real hallucination that dealt with Locke's guilts and fears.

That is incorrect, because the HAVID imparted real life information that Locke could not have known by other means: That Eko had been attacked and dragged away by a bear. It was The Island talking.

[Brian]

Locke's killed more people on that Island than Smoky or Michael.

Smokey has killed the Pilot and Eko, that we know of.

Father of the year killed Ana-Lucia and Libby, that we know of.

Locke killed Mikhail, and that was more likely Locke finishing what Mikhail started in Enter 77 anyway. You're not going to try and say that Locke killed Boone are you? ;)

[Susan B Anthony]

Locke killed Mikhail, and that was more likely Locke finishing what Mikhail started in Enter 77 anyway.

Not to mention that Locke couldn't have known for certain what would happen to Mikhail when shoved into the invisible fence. Knowing the Others, the big fence could have just been a psychological defense to scare people away. Sort of like the fake beards.


Please please, not "Locke murdered Boone" again. :DeadHorse:

[Homer Noodleman]

the big fence could have just been a psychological defense to scare people away. Sort of like the fake beards.

I first read that as fake breasts. To say I was confused by the 'scare people away' part would be an understatement. :boggled:

[Susan B Anthony]

I first read that as fake breasts. To say I was confused by the 'scare people away' part would be an understatement. :boggled:


Well, you know it's the Nikki and Paulo episode next week. Who knows what horror may be revealed.

[Pacman 23]

SBA,

Then it dawned on me! Locke has been without a family all of his life. The survivors of flight 815 have become his family, in a word. Think about it! He considers himself like the father. What does a father do? Brings home the beacon so his family can eat. That's what he's done from day one, literally.

No anymore! His last action of blowing that sub completely severed his connection to the losties. Everyone who knows what he did depise Locke now.. the rest of the Losties will despise him as well when they find out what he did. Locke has no allies left except the others. Sayid would kill him in a heartbeat and will probably have to race to do it before some other Lostie does. What he did will be seen as utterly despicable by his fellow losties. Locke has alienated himself and is now an other - he has absolutely no choice now. Whether he likes it or not, he can not go back to the losties. possibly ever. The question is "can he redeem himself"?

[Susan B Anthony]

I'm guessing Locke won't fess up and admit that he blew up the sub to keep everyone from leaving the Island. Remember, he came up with an excuse for Sayid about destroying the radio equipment.

I think when Jack challenges Locke, Locke can legitimately say, "Did you really believe that Ben was just going to let you go?" I personally wouldn't have trusted Ben enough to board a submarine piloted by one of his people.

Locke will have a hard time selling that he was doing what was best for everybody, but I bet he will try.

[Homer Noodleman]

Let's not forget that the castaways are a forgiving lot. When Shannon tried to lodge a bullet in his cranium they all more or less shrugged, and that's only one example of many.

His hope at the moment is Kate who, since Season One, has patiently worked to bring the outsiders into the group.

[Island Hobo]

I think Locke blew up the sub just to attack The Others and serve the island in whatever way he feels is right. Maybe he thinks that everyone should stay on the island and that was how he was doing it for all of them, but I doubt they would believe that.

[Hodgepodge]

No anymore! His last action of blowing that sub completely severed his connection to the losties. Everyone who knows what he did depise Locke now.. the rest of the Losties will despise him as well when they find out what he did. Locke has no allies left except the others. Sayid would kill him in a heartbeat and will probably have to race to do it before some other Lostie does. What he did will be seen as utterly despicable by his fellow losties. Locke has alienated himself and is now an other - he has absolutely no choice now. Whether he likes it or not, he can not go back to the losties. possibly ever. The question is "can he redeem himself"?Pacman 23, I couldn't agree more! There's no turning back for him now. Although like SBA, I do expect him to try and talk himself out of this arse whipping he deserves. And one more thing! He won't have to wait for a Lostie to try and frag him, Juliet is going to go off. She was so looking forword to getting off Craphole Island, I'd expect her to bitch-slap until tomorrow. :catfight:

[Susan B Anthony]

He won't have to wait for a Lostie to try and frag him, Juliet is going to go off. She was so looking forword to getting off Craphole Island, I'd expect her to bitch-slap until tomorrow. :catfight:

That could create an interesting standoff -- Juliet borrows a page from the Shannon Rutherford handbook and takes a shot at Locke. Does Jack stand back and cheer or does he come to the defense of his fellow passenger? I think we're going to see a lot of reallignment of loyalties between now and the S3 finale. Summer hiatus will have us discussing who is going to end up on which side. (Remember those long-ago discussions of a Locke camp vs. a Jack camp? We may see that yet.)

[Hodgepodge]

That could create an interesting standoff -- Juliet borrows a page from the Shannon Rutherford handbook and takes a shot at Locke. Does Jack stand back and cheer or does he come to the defense of his fellow passenger? I think we're going to see a lot of reallignment of loyalties between now and the S3 finale. Summer hiatus will have us discussing who is going to end up on which side. (Remember those long-ago discussions of a Locke camp vs. a Jack camp? We may see that yet.)I see it coming SBA! And we know she has no qualms about killing. Supposedly, she killed Danny to get off the island, can you imagine what she's going to do to Locke when she was that close to having her ticket home punched? And Jack, hopefully will step back and let nature takes its course. She's going to beat Locke like a rented mule! :DeadHorse:

[Susan B Anthony]

Hodge, I know you have gotten off the WEBELO bandwagon, but how far have you fallen? You look forward to seeing Locke get beaten up by a girl? Oh my.

[Hodgepodge]

Hodge, I know you have gotten off the WEBELO bandwagon, but how far have you fallen? You look forward to seeing Locke get beaten up by a girl? Oh my.I want him to get his comeuppance SBA! :nanabobo: "I'm as mad as hell, and I'm not going to take this anymore!" :mad:

[Brian]

I want him to get his comeuppance SBA!

I don't see that happening any time soon. Well, at least not unless someone has the good sense to take Locke below ground or hidden from the Island and/or Smokey. With the way he's acting and the things he's doing right now, I just don't see the Island letting any harm come to him regardless of who's hand it may be at.

Locke doesn't give a damn about getting off that island, ever, and right now he doesn't really care about anyone else getting off the Island either. Selfish? Sure. Stupid? Depends on whose eyes your looking at it from. If you're looking at it from the 815ers standpoint, yeah it's incredibly selfish and stupid. If you're looking at it from Locke's standpoint, it's all perfectly sane. Locke is seeking a little payback from those who made him question his faith in the Island, namely Ben. I guess it's just a matter of perspective but I've tried to see these things from both sides and both sides are arguably correct in their thinking. I just happen to be on Locke's side. :) ;)

[sgtdraino]

I find it amusing to hear you guys read things into Locke's motivations for blowing up the submarine, when as far as the show goes we still have no idea why he did it. I'm sure we'll find out before the end of the season, though! Looking forward to it. :)

[Brian]

I find it amusing to hear you guys read things into Locke's motivations for blowing up the submarine, when as far as the show goes we still have no idea why he did it.

Aw hell, it's no worse than an entire summer spent pondering what was in that damn hatch. :D Like you said though, I'm sure we'll find out by the end of the season....or at least I hope so anyway. ;)

[Susan B Anthony]

I want him to get his comeuppance SBA! :nanabobo: "I'm as mad as hell, and I'm not going to take this anymore!" :mad:

Comeuppance for what? Just for blowing up the submarine? Didn't he have some credit built up for all of his favors to the other 815s, starting with being the reason they all survived past about day 5? They wouldn't have eaten in those first weeks without Locke providing for them. I'm sure I don't need to list the litany of people who are in Locke's debt from early on. Yes, I think Locke lives in fear of losing his legs again. But I don't think Locke's interest and the interest of the other 815s are mutually exclusive.

I personally think that in the big picture, what is happening on the Island will have larger implications than just the fate of the 815s. I think Kelvin's talk of "saving the world" will end up being more than just metaphor, so the desire of the Losties to get back to hearth and home will have to take a back seat to the mission of the Others. But we'll have to wait until the series finale to find out if I'm right about that.

In the meantime, I think the 815s would do well to keep in mind that Locke is probably the only one of them that is a competent adversary to Ben. If they don't want to all end up dancing on the end of Ben's puppet-strings, they should stay in Locke's good graces.