Cooper... WAS on plane [Archive]

mjburne

03-24-07, 04:23 AM

I think its been discussed and is pretty obvious that Cooper is the orignal Sawyer..... which may mean that he was on the plane following Sawyer... or even Locke. BUT I think the prrof that he was on the plane was the MacCutcheon Whiskey. I'm not sure if this has been mentioned. Obviously Cooper had it in his room... and it had about the same amount in it as the bottle that charlie and Hurley found. We kept wondering how the whiskey got on the plane. I'm willing to bet that this is how. I mean how many bottles of that are floating around? Which would mean Locke saw the REAL Cooper, not a manifestation or trickery.

dp2

03-24-07, 04:27 AM

Maybe. But the scene in his aprtment was four years before the flight. did he take it with him when he fled and never take another drink?

snivellusfriend

03-24-07, 04:37 AM

Interesting theory.

I thought the MacCutcheon Whiskey was a clue to connect Locke's father with Penny's father and that it appeared on the island because Desmond wanted it (Ben's magic box speech).

LostFools

03-24-07, 05:02 AM

Maybe. But the scene in his aprtment was four years before the flight. did he take it with him when he fled and never take another drink?

it's a very expensive drink... i would only take sips every couple of years...:Cheers:

I Hate Seabillies

03-24-07, 05:15 AM

That's funny that Desmond was chugging it.

myhappycakeoven

03-24-07, 05:21 AM

i dont care what significance maccutcheons has to the overall story, as an avid scotch connoisseur i wanted nothing more than to sample it and was incredibly heartbroken when i discovered it was a made up brand.

i guess ill just have to stick to chivas regal 18

mjburne

03-24-07, 05:25 AM

Maybe. But the scene in his aprtment was four years before the flight. did he take it with him when he fled and never take another drink?

I had thought about this, too. But I also think that he would only take a sip every so often. The only thing that may not seem right is him keeping it with him when he fled. But I just think it was meant to let us know that he was on the flight. Maybe not though, this IS Lost... anything is possible

John

03-24-07, 08:34 AM

I'd say that Cooper was one of the first class passengers that vanished.

TheBigCat

03-24-07, 08:57 AM

One problem with that. We saw Ben dispatch Ethan to the mid-section and Goodwin to the tail. He never dispatched anyone to the front section.

I think that Bed read Locke's file and said "Holy cow! This guy was paralyzed and now he's walking around. WTH???? Look...he was pushed out an 8th storey window by his father who had previously conned him out of a kidney. I bet we could get him to co-operate if we gave him Anthony Cooper trussed up like a Christmas goose.", and sent whoever is running things back in The World to track him down.

One thing...on another track, but with all those files on the Losties I'll bet Ben knows that Jack and Claire are half-sibs.

Khan

03-24-07, 04:38 PM

I think that's the most likely theory. They could have made regular trips off the Island until the lastest incident so it'd be easy for them snatch Cooper once they started background checks and noticed Locke's Island connection.

Rocky Raccoon

03-24-07, 04:41 PM

Cooper... WASN'T on plane.

Even for TPTB, that'd be quite a stretch.

fgradel

03-24-07, 05:14 PM

"Cooper... WASN'T on plane.

Even for TPTB, that'd be quite a stretch."

If you mean that Cooper being in the plane would be quite a stretch, I disagree. I think is the other way around. Cooper HAD to be in the plane, otherwise THAT would be quite a stretch.

What is most likely:

a) The Others, after learning Locke's history, have gone out of the island (probably not something they do everyday), searched for a rich guy who has been succesfully running away from justice (fooling probably even Interpol) for four years and could be hidden anywhere in the world, found AND captured him in a small amount of time (80 days or less), thus bringing him to the island; OR

b) Cooper is simply one of the survivors who was snagged from the beach, and the others found out after some research that he was Locke's father, thus keeping him for later use (Locke's manipulation)?

Using Occam's Razor, the right answer must be the latter.

Otherwise, as someone already stated, there are at least two possible reasons for Cooper being in the plane - Locke and Sawyer - and the Whiskey in the island was probably from Cooper's luggage. And it will be easier for TPTB to explain how Cooper got on the island: all you need is another flashback were we see Cooper (either following Locke or Sawyer for whatever reason, or simply taking a vacation abroad) getting a ticket for flight 815.

The only flaw I can see in this rationale is that, since Cooper is a fugitive from the US, why would he be returning there from Australia by his own will? Unless he was certain that he would not be caught (being Cooper/Original Sawyer, by this time he has already forged an entirely new identity/life for himself). Or perhaps Kate was not the only FBI prisoner in the plane...

btw, do we already know why Locke was on the plane? (that is, why he was going from Australia to the US?) I can't recall if that has already been told in a previous episode. Perhaps it is LOCKE who was following his father, and his look of surprise at last episode's is because he thought Cooper had died in the crash.

I Hate Seabillies

03-24-07, 05:24 PM

I'm surprised no one theorized he stowed away in Christian's casket. That would explain why the casket was open (Cooper was alive and climbed out) and why Christian's body was not in it.

gbigblackdog

03-24-07, 07:19 PM

Ok, an answer I think I know. Your question of why Locke was on the plane from Australia to the US...was because he was turned down by the booking agency for the walk-a-bout. I remember a clerk or someone telling him that had they known he was in a wheelchair, they wouldn't have accepted his deposit for the walk-a-bout. So, I'm pretty sure he was returning home instead of going on his adventure.

Homer Noodleman

03-24-07, 08:49 PM

Even though it would be a goofy stretch, I would buy Cooper being on the plane far easier than I would buy the Others going out, capturing Cooper and bringing him to the island.

J_C

03-24-07, 09:13 PM

It could be that John Locke is being shown an image of his 'father' just as Eko saw Yemi, Jack his father, etc.

Crandyman

03-24-07, 09:21 PM

It could be that John Locke is being shown an image of his 'father' just as Eko saw Yemi, Jack his father, etc.

That's just more interesting anyway, IMO. I would be real disappointed to find out he was on the plane. Any explanation but that, would suffice for me.

LandPirate

03-24-07, 10:53 PM

What is most likely:

a) The Others, after learning Locke's history, have gone out of the island (probably not something they do everyday), searched for a rich guy who has been succesfully running away from justice (fooling probably even Interpol) for four years and could be hidden anywhere in the world, found AND captured him in a small amount of time (80 days or less), thus bringing him to the island; OR

b) Cooper is simply one of the survivors who was snagged from the beach, and the others found out after some research that he was Locke's father, thus keeping him for later use (Locke's manipulation)?

Using Occam's Razor, the right answer must be the latter.

I agree with your reasoning (though I would not have used the word 'must').
But that doesn't make the suggestion that Cooper (can we start calling him Coopyer now?) was on plane any less absurd.
.

Hodgepodge

03-24-07, 11:15 PM

I happen to agree with Fgradel scenario as well. The idea the "Others" would read a put together file on Locke and go out and find Cooper is a little far fetched in my book.

Finding him on flight 815 wouldn't be as far fetched as finding the brother/sister team of Jack and Claire on the flight. Not knowing they're brother and sister. Hurley on the flight with one of his employees by the name of Locke. And all of the other coinkydinkies we've come to accept.

ILUVBEN

03-25-07, 01:38 AM

It could be that John Locke is being shown an image of his 'father' just as Eko saw Yemi, Jack his father, etc.

I really like this idea too. I like the idea of The Others having the smoke monster locked up in that room...and I like the idea of them unlocking the door and letting the smoke monster out. And I would love it if this is how they get their information for the "file"... from the smoke monster. I would love it if the smoke monster was a computer program and that it "read" the losties...and based on what the losties saw and felt, the smoke monster recorded this data and that is how the Others got their info. To me, that would be interesting. So, when Locke looked in the room, it's because Ben prepped him by inserting the idea of Locke's father in his head...and making him think of his father...and lo and behold...when the room opens....it's his father...

Either that or Ben is the perfect Illusionist...

but to me it would be more interesting if there really is a "magic box."

zartan

03-25-07, 05:33 AM

Cooper's a con man. Ben's a manipulator. Locke's known weaknesses are that he's easily conned and easily manipulated.

There might be a few more options to this mystery than just the two theories previously presented. For instance, there are quite a few connections to the passengers of Oceanic Flight 815. We must assume either improbable randomness or purposeful design. Whom more likely to mastermind this doomed flight than Cooper?

Maybe he moved to the island after the attempted murder of Locke. He's been on craphole the entire time.

Maybe he was generated out of a "magic box".

Maybe they used psychic Walt to find his location.

See lots of options...

zeekman

03-25-07, 09:34 AM

newyorkmets9

03-25-07, 02:05 PM

Unless he wanted to finish him off. But why would he want to do that in Australia?

zeekman

03-25-07, 06:13 PM

Locke was paralyzed in Australia, it would not be hard to "finish him off".

GoPanthers

03-26-07, 01:36 PM

I like the idea of Anthony Cooper possibly being on the plane (I really do, interesting!!!), but then why would Ben have referred to him as the man from Tallahassee (spelling?)???

sdunn96

03-26-07, 01:46 PM

He didn't want Locke to know he was on the island.
He isn't sure what names Locke knows him by......so being vague allowed him to move him into position.

KCaffrey

03-26-07, 01:47 PM

VonWesvolin

03-26-07, 03:20 PM

Cooper's a con man. Ben's a manipulator. Locke's known weaknesses are that he's easily conned and easily manipulated.

There might be a few more options to this mystery than just the two theories previously presented. For instance, there are quite a few connections to the passengers of Oceanic Flight 815. We must assume either improbable randomness or purposeful design. Whom more likely to mastermind this doomed flight than Cooper?

Maybe he moved to the island after the attempted murder of Locke. He's been on craphole the entire time.
That is Occam's Razor. I totally agree with this explanation.

lostdrewski

03-26-07, 05:00 PM

I think the more likely possibility is that Cooper is there on behalf of the Widmore/Paik contingent and was captured by the Others at some point on the island, whether he was on the plane or not. I think Cooper was set up to keep tabs on Locke under the orders of his leaders (Widmore) because Locke is part of the Others' contingent. Locke has most likely had his memory toyed with which is why he is beginning to realize his connection to the island. He has been on the island before and he now knows this. When he met Ben in the Swan Hatch Ben told him that he was there because he was coming for him. I think we will find out Locke "is" one of the Others and he was brought back to the island by them.

Hodgepodge

03-26-07, 05:44 PM

I'm liking the Cooper being on flight 815 more as I think about it. If the "Others" have a file on all of the survivors of flight 815, they'd have a file on Cooper. They'd know he was a recipient of a kidney, and they'd know Locke was the donor. Just like the son of the woman Cooper was going to marry found Locke. They'd see the connection and keep Cooper around.

I'd be curious to know whether Cooper was given the run of "Othersville" prior to Locke's arrival? Or, was he always kept bond and gaged?

HurleyBoob

03-26-07, 06:40 PM

If you are saying that the you are basing Cooper being on 815 solely on the Whisky, that is kind of flimsy. I understand the Locke connection but we don't even know for sure Cooper is the real "Saywer" (yet lol)

What reason would he have to follow Locke on the Walkabout? He is trying to AVOID Locke, not confront him.

I definitely agree that the whiskey is way too little to base that on, and people were arguing about how he would still have some left, etc. Uhhm...couldn't he have bought another bottle? It's not THAT rare, they even had it at the pub Desmond was at in "Flashes"--so its apparently pretty common.

I happen to think that Cooper is (the real) Sawyer, but there is no evidence to support it. Although it does seem too obvious of a connection--could be a red herring.

Pacman 23

03-26-07, 07:16 PM

Cooper... WASN'T on plane.

Even for TPTB, that'd be quite a stretch.

I'm sorry but this made me laugh a little. This is LOST after all. I mean isn't it a stretch that Locke was on the same plane as the guy who owns his box company and the guy whose girlfiend he had performed a home inspection for, or 2 siblings who never met to be on the same flight with their dad riding below in a coffin, or that the boat that Desmond used to get to the island was given to him to a woman whose funeral was in progress when he showed up, etc, etc, etc and on and on and on. EVERYTHING is a stretch on LOST. It's what makes LOST what it is. Cooper being on that flight and being Sawyers dad is not anymore unlikely than anything else that has happened so far. LOST certainly skates that thin edge between the plausible and absurd. Everyone talks about this show one day jumping the shark but I think this show is riding on one. The best and longest running shark balancing act I have ever seen. I love it.

tellthemmrekoletyoulive

03-26-07, 07:26 PM

Keep in mind that Cooper was wearing the same clothes he had on when he pushed Locke out of the window.

Hodgepodge

03-26-07, 10:19 PM

Keep in mind that Cooper was wearing the same clothes he had on when he pushed Locke out of the window.Screencap! Because if this is true, I'm changing my vote to "Smokey". :rolleyez:

Pacman 23

03-26-07, 11:37 PM

Screencap yes! If true then I'm changing MY vote to a "timecop" abduction.. lol

Jeph

03-26-07, 11:54 PM

Keep in mind that Cooper was wearing the same clothes he had on when he pushed Locke out of the window.
I've heard this a few times now, but his shirt looks very different to me.

snivellusfriend

03-27-07, 12:15 AM

Good theories; I can't decide which one I believe.

Cooper's not wearing the same shirt; He was dressed in black when he pushed Locke out the window, but is now wearing a light blue shirt inside his cell.

http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-1267-766.html

http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-1267-910.html

Hodgepodge

03-27-07, 12:16 AM

Here's the cap of Cooper just before pushing Locke out the window.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v623/WilHodge/Cooper.jpg

Now, here's the cap of him bond and gaged in the chair.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v623/WilHodge/Cooper_B.jpg

The shirts are totally different. Thanks a lot Tellthemmrekoletyoulive! :mad:

Thanks for the caps TPTP!

tellthemmrekoletyoulive

03-27-07, 03:47 AM

Oops, my bad. But thanks for the screencaps.

tellthemmrekoletyoulive

03-27-07, 03:51 AM

:rolleyes4

williambob1

03-27-07, 12:58 PM

I disagree with the your conclusion and application of the Razor too.

Dharma has/had the means to easily go out and find Cooper in the real world. That task would be infinitly easier due to the relationship between Cooper and other people in Dharma. I believe Cooper is Penny's Dad's brother. Penny's Dad is involved with Dharma, Coopyer (i like that) may have been but went rogue years ago as he likes to con people and do his own thing. Dharma wouldn't have let him hide away somewhere- they would have let him THINK no one knew where he was but they have and keep tabs on anything important to them.

Pacman 23

03-27-07, 01:06 PM

Wouldn't a team of clandestine operatives/recruiters find a good use for seasoned con man? Would seem to be a extremely valuable asset to the "team" considering how they operate thier "recruiting process". Perhaps not as a regular but as a hired gun. Maybe that is how they knew his wearabouts so easily. He was in their rolodex.

williambob1

03-27-07, 01:08 PM

yea, he would make a good fit- if he wanted to cooper-ate (lol no pun). I don't think he was willingly cooperating with them.

DarthKitty

03-27-07, 01:09 PM

That task would be infinitly easier due to the relationship between Cooper and other people in Dharma.Who in Dharma does he have a relationship with? Penny's Dad is involved with Dharma, Proof please?! Coopyer (i like that) may have been but went rogue years ago as he likes to con people and do his own thing. Dharma wouldn't have let him hide away somewhere- they would have let him THINK no one knew where he was but they have and keep tabs on anything important to them. I just don't see the connection. What have we seen on the show to prove this idea?

williambob1

03-27-07, 01:17 PM

rosie,
as I said in my post- I believe Penny's dad is involved with Dharma. I believe Cooper is related to him. Connecting those resolves the connection you ask about.

ika

03-27-07, 01:17 PM

I'd rather believe that Mittelos is a very well funded intelligence agency with the money to move very quickly all over the world. That's how Cooper got there.

DarthKitty

03-27-07, 01:25 PM

rosie,
as I said in my post- I believe Penny's dad is involved with Dharma. I believe Cooper is related to him. Connecting those resolves the connection you ask about. Ok. I don't always catch all the connections seen on the show that other folks here do. I depend on these threads to enlighten me due to my poor observation skills :). I was just wanting to know what I had missed on the show that showed a relationship between the two.

dragongrrl

03-27-07, 01:40 PM

Rosie,

Read this: http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Widmore

There is no PROOF outside of off-show references that Widmore is related to the Hanso Foundation. and even that relationship is mostly circumstantial.

but, as we've seen often in LOST, "coincidences" often play out to be something more.

fwiw, i think you guys who are putting Cooper with Widmore are reaching, but that's why we're here, isn't it? to have fun trying to figure things out. :)

DarthKitty

03-27-07, 01:46 PM

Thanks dragongrrl! :) I didn't think there was anything that big that I had missed.

I Smell Carrots

03-27-07, 08:01 PM

While nothing is ever out of the question on this show, I really don't think he was on the plane. As someone earlier suggested, Dahrma/Mittleos is the type of group that likely has wide ranging operations. Its not unthinkable that they could have grabbed him as soon as they figured out what we have about Locke.

He could also have been recruited. Here's someone on the run constantly. What if he was approached with an offer to "disappear" for a while? We know the Others are the best con artists out there. EIther of those seem more likely, to me, than him being on the plane.

Hodgepodge

03-27-07, 10:13 PM

Juanbong and I have been on the lookout for symbols of Dharma's existence in the real world for sometime now. We may never find any, but that doesn't mean Dharma doesn't exist in some fashion today. And that fashion are all of the coporations, entities, shadow companies we've come across since the series started. It is my belief Dharma exits in some form within one or all of them. Also, I'm not giving up the idea of finding a skyscrapper with the Dharma symbol plastered on its facade somewhere out there.

I can't believe when a man tries to kill another man, he sets up shop so he can be found. Just like the detectives told Locke, Cooper could be anywhere in the world. What I've been reading here is the idea that whatever entity Dharma has turned into, they'd be able to find a man who doesn't want to be found. And find him within 80 days. Just to bring him to an island on the happenstance his son shows up.

I know I've mentioned we've accepted a number of coinkydinkies regarding Lost, but the idea of Cooper being an agent for whatever the entity has become seems to be pushing the envelope of believability. Not sure I could buy into that scenario.

Because we have so many strange couplings on flight 815, it just makes sense to throw in one more. TPTB may go another route, they've surprised on more than one occasion. But, I think having Cooper on a honeymoon, or anniversary, or vacation and end up on the doomed flight to Los Angeles makes the most sense.

DarthKitty

03-27-07, 10:23 PM

But, I think having Cooper on a honeymoon, or anniversary, or vacation and end up on the doomed flight to Los Angeles makes the most sense.

That is what I think we will see, or something along those lines. Some connections/storylines are going to be simple, some not. I think this one will be simple, complicated by the fate or coincidence of Cooper just being on the plane.

abcdxyz

03-27-07, 11:14 PM

It occurred to me last night that when Ben told Richard Alpert to "bring me the man from Tallahassee," he might have meant just that--"go get the man who is in Tallahassee now and bring him here from there."

Granted, that would be a further stretch than anything that has been suggested in this thread so far, but if the Others have some kind of ability to go out into the world and bring things back to the island, or to draw things they need to the island (Ben suggests this), it could be possible, I guess. Maybe the "magic box" is a teleporter or transporter that brings things and people from elsewhere, rather than creating them.

Personally, I'm leaning more toward Cooper being on the plane originally, I think. Although Ben, et. al. could have brought him to the island on purpose and been holding him for a while, I suppose.

But his reason for being there is to give both Locke and Sawyer (for I believe he is the man who conned James Ford's parents) a "second chance," the "do-over" that TPTB talked about in the recap episode on Feb. 7. What will they choose to do with him? Will they take revenge, or forgive him?

Susan B Anthony

03-28-07, 12:50 AM

Very interesting debate. My $.02:

It is very unlikely that the Others could have figured out that they wanted Cooper, and then found him and brought him to the Island in the 80 days since the crash. Cooper was an experienced con-man, and if he was now motivated by the prospect of a long prison term, I'm thinking he could bury himself very deep. If we assume that the Others knew who was on the plane and had files on them even before the crash, that could change things, but I don't buy that theory for reasons I won't go into.

I would believe that Cooper was on the plane, and was grabbed by the Others early on. Remember, Locke was the first person to board the plane, so if Cooper was in first class, Locke would not have seen him nor vice versa. Why would Cooper be flying to LA when he was wanted in California? Maybe he was hiding out in Australia, caught a glimpse of Locke, and in a panic, took the first flight he could get onto. Maybe he thought Locke had found his hidey-hole in Australia and come to have his revenge.

But my first vote is that it isn't really Cooper -- it's Smokey. Ben said the magic box will show you whatever you want to see. Eko wanted very badly to see Yemi, so he did. (I'm guessing Ben knows that the magic box is a very large monkey paw, but he won't tell Locke that.) Also, remember what Eko said to Locke just before he died. Locke relayed it to Sayid and co. as "We're next," but if Eko said, "You're next," he could have been speaking only to Locke. Also, remember, Locke also saw Yemi in his dream; an image which couldn't have come from Locke's own subconscious.

But if Smokey is responsible, another question comes to mind -- Are Ben and Richard also seeing Cooper? Or is this just an image from Locke's mind that the others can't see?

I DON'T KNOW!!!! I CAN'T FIGURE IT OUT!!!!!!! :banghead:

sablegirl

03-28-07, 12:59 AM

If the box is a teleporter or a way to 'Grab' people or manafest your dreams....then why didn't they go get a spinal surgeon or a replacement doctor instead of hoping Jack would cure Ben? I feel the box is either an illusion or the smoky theory. But a portal???? No.

sablegirl

03-28-07, 01:11 AM

By the way....I don't believe it's Cooper in that 'Box' at all....I think Ben transported Roy De Soto from Firestation 51 in Los Angeles from the year 1972. Just a guess.

Cluck You

03-29-07, 03:47 AM

WayneInNYC

03-29-07, 04:18 AM

I think the simplest answer would be:

Cooper was already on the island when 815 crashed. Cooper was possibly "recruited" by the others ages ago and has been living on the island in Bensylvania. I think the whole bound and gagged thing is another mind game that Ben is playing with Locke.

Mephil

04-01-07, 09:54 PM

While watching the expose episode, (just after boone asks to borrow the chair off n/p) did anyone else notice the tannoy announcement? I thought it was a calling for Captin Steward. Maybe it was Cooper acting as the pilot. This to me, reminds me of "Catch me if you can" of the character Frank, of how he would con his way on to flights to recieve free flights. Mmmm? Could this be how he ended up on the island? If he was with the pilots, this would explain why none of the passangers ever saw him, and how his where abouts became on the Island itself.

DarthKitty

04-02-07, 12:58 PM

I think he was on the plane, wether or not he was a pilot or passenger, it seems to convoluted to have him already on the island. Not that Lost can't be convoluted ;)! I will say I had never considered that he was a pilot, the only thing about that is he tried to kill his son. Piloting a plane is not really under the radar.

Raytonium

04-02-07, 06:32 PM

BUT I think the prrof that he was on the plane was the MacCutcheon Whiskey.

By this reasoning, Widmore was on the plane as well--and every other person that ever had a bottle of that whiskey. :rolleyez:

yung23

04-02-07, 06:51 PM

BTW ... there IS a slight hint regarding Cooper and smokey for anyone willing to listen..

IMO/
Smokey is a particle physics wetdream based on Superfluids

AND one of the most well known superfluids.. is a fermionic condensate.

otherwise known as.. a BCS.

Fermionic superfluids

It is far more difficult to produce a fermionic superfluid than a bosonic one, because the Pauli exclusion principle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pauli_exclusion_principle) prohibits fermions from occupying the same quantum state (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_state). However, there is a well-known mechanism by which a superfluid may be formed from fermions.

This is the BCS transition (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BCS_theory), discovered in 1957 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1957) by John Bardeen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Bardeen), Leon Cooper (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leon_Neil_Cooper) and Robert Schrieffer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Robert_Schrieffer) for describing superconductivity. These authors showed that, below a certain temperature, electrons (which are fermions) can pair up to form bound pairs now known as Cooper pairs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooper_pair).

As long as collisions with the ionic lattice of the solid do not supply enough energy to break the Cooper pairs, the electron fluid will be able to flow without dissipation. As a result, it becomes a superfluid.

it being a superfluid, also answers how it flies around.

its part of the quantum hall effect.

Fourtoes

04-02-07, 07:33 PM

Perhaps we ought to pay some attention to what Ben says. Why take this moment in time to tell us about the magic box and claim Cooper came out of it? Perhaps because he did come out of whatever metaphorical thing this box is.

I'm voting Smoke Monster on the box. But that doesn't necessarily mean Cooper isn't the real Cooper. We aren't quite sure what Smokey can do. A grab might not be out of the question, even if it seems like a shark too far.

It's also possible that Cooper has always had a special tie to the island, either through Dharma or Mittelos (sorry, I don't see them as the same thing at all).

Many of us have speculated that even if Desmond's button omission brought down 815, the flight was off course and may have been preparing to land in the area. If Cooper had a tie to this island, that could point to one person who might have been interested in bringing both Locke and Sawyer here.

LOSTUmphreak

04-02-07, 09:16 PM

That's funny that Desmond was chugging it.

Here's what I think of you and your precious whiskey Mr. Widmore!

mrfrankie

04-04-07, 04:03 PM

If he was on the plane (which would be my preference) I have one explaination why: He is the real Sawyer. He conned our Sawyer into killing someone in Aussie and was following him to make sure that task was completed. Why mess your hands when you can manipulate someone else into doing it?

He was plucked out of the jungle by the Others after leaving the first class area. That part of the plane was pretty well preserved after the crash.

He has lots of identities so he feels pretty comfortable travelling all over. Plus, its been a few years since he shoved Locke out the window.

DarthKitty

04-04-07, 04:07 PM

Could be that he was following Locke, possibly to finish the job or attempt to con him again.

Hodgepodge

04-04-07, 04:19 PM

Perhaps we ought to pay some attention to what Ben says. Why take this moment in time to tell us about the magic box and claim Cooper came out of it? Perhaps because he did come out of whatever metaphorical thing this box is...Fourtoes, I think I understand what you're saying. Although, I don't think "Smokey" has the power to fetch beings from wherever in the World.

What I like about the quote I pulled is the term "magic box" as a metaphorical container of things we want or need. Now follow along with my reasoning! What if this "magic box" was the actual plane that brought our survivors to Craphole Island. What did Ben need more than anything? That's right, a spinal surgeon. Using Ben's own words, "one just droped out of the sky." From the dossier on Locke, Ben determined what Locke needed was a face-to-face confrontation with the man whose brought him nothing but sorry. His father, Cooper. Who, just so happens was also on flight 815.

DarthKitty

04-04-07, 05:31 PM

Hurley's manifest had a "Sawyer" on it......Australia should have deported a James Ford, not a Sawyer.

So, there must have been another "Sawyer" on the plane.

This was posted by sleepy jeff. (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1434754#post1434754) I find it very telling.

SuperOrange

04-04-07, 05:36 PM

it's a very expensive drink... i would only take sips every couple of years...:Cheers:

Coopers a con man, from the looks of his lifestyle, it doesn't look like hes pinching pennies.

SuperOrange

04-04-07, 05:55 PM

Locke asked Sawyer why he picked that name, Sawyer, because in the flight manifest it said James Ford, nothing about a Sawyer. He was probly curious because he checked up Coopers history after the kidney thing and found out things about his past. The whole Sawyer thing and how he's a con man and whatnot. He probly knows that his father and Sawyer are connected.

LOCKE: No, your name. Why'd you pick Sawyer?
SAWYER: What do you mean, pick?
LOCKE: After the census Hurley gave me the flight manifest. Your name is James, right? James Ford.
SAWYER: What's it to you?
LOCKE: Just an interesting name to choose, is all. Who'd you get it from?
SAWYER: Who says I got it from anybody?

Were does someone say theres a Sawyer on the manifest? I'm trying to find it.

Hodgepodge

04-04-07, 06:10 PM

Locke asked Sawyer why he picked that name, Sawyer, because in the flight manifest it said James Ford, nothing about a Sawyer. He was probly curious because he checked up Coopers history after the kidney thing and found out things about his past. The whole Sawyer thing and how he's a con man and whatnot. He probly knows that his father and Sawyer are connected.

LOCKE: No, your name. Why'd you pick Sawyer?
SAWYER: What do you mean, pick?
LOCKE: After the census Hurley gave me the flight manifest. Your name is James, right? James Ford.
SAWYER: What's it to you?
LOCKE: Just an interesting name to choose, is all. Who'd you get it from?
SAWYER: Who says I got it from anybody?...I like this SuperOrange. It would make sense during S1 when Locke was the all-knowing seer, he'd figure this out.

Have you had a chance to read the Who will kill Cooper--Locke or Sawyer? (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32695) thread? You might find it an interesting read. :nanabobo: