Kate and Juliet

[Island Hobo]

I hated this interaction, they made Juliet out to be a karate know it all that just beats up Kate and schools her constantly. Then when Kate finally gets the upper hand and messes her up big time, Juliet just says that it's happened four times already so it was apparently just one of her weaknesses and she's actually just plain better than Kate.

When she instantly dodged a pool cue coming out of nowhere and threw Kate on the ground, even if she did have some karate knowledge I have to hand it to Kate that was very well performed and would have been nearly impossible to dodge. She started the swing right before the door opened and as soon as Juliet entered the room it was in her face. In my opinion that was completely lame, they try to make Juliet into far too much of a warrior rather than a doctor. But back at the start of the season Doctor VS Doctor Jack just grabs her and throws her around like a rag doll, putting a piece of a plate to her neck and her only defense is a little stun gun that he just tosses to the side like it's nothing.

Juliet has earned no points with me. All this coupled with her trying to kill the great Ben, the only interaction I'm looking forward to with Juliet is maybe a good torture session with our trusty Iraqi.

[zetaprime]

I hated this interaction, they made Juliet out to be a karate know it all that just beats up Kate and schools her constantly. Then when Kate finally gets the upper hand and messes her up big time, Juliet just says that it's happened four times already so it was apparently just one of her weaknesses and she's actually just plain better than Kate.

When she instantly dodged a pool cue coming out of nowhere and threw Kate on the ground, even if she did have some karate knowledge I have to hand it to Kate that was very well performed and would have been nearly impossible to dodge. She started the swing right before the door opened and as soon as Juliet entered the room it was in her face. In my opinion that was completely lame, they try to make Juliet into far too much of a warrior rather than a doctor. But back at the start of the season Doctor VS Doctor Jack just grabs her and throws her around like a rag doll, putting a piece of a plate to her neck and her only defense is a little stun gun that he just tosses to the side like it's nothing.

Juliet has earned no points with me. All this coupled with her trying to kill the great Ben, the only interaction I'm looking forward to with Juliet is maybe a good torture session with our trusty Iraqi.


The actress (Elizabeth Mitchell) is proficient at boxing and karate, so she's gonna kick ass every time.

[Freckles+The Best Cowboy]

I questioned this too... it looked to me like Kate really gave it to whoever was coming in the door, they should have been out flat, and then all of a sudden Kate is on her back. Kate's no punk, we've SEEN her hold her own against full grown men before.... and logically, that should have worked, WAY better than Jack's rushing Juliet from ACROSS THE ROOM.

But this isn't the FIRST time Juliet has surprised me with a sudden show of physical prowess. Remember back when she cold-cocked Jack in the Hydra station?

Now I like Juliet as a character, and if the writers can come up with a satisfactory explaination as to why Juliet is channeling Trinity meets the Bionic Woman, then fine. Ethan seemed a little stronger than normal too.... so maybe they are going somewhere with this...

Oh, and Kate instantly apologizing when Juliet starts screaming? What's up with that?? She was beating the stuffing out of Juliet, of COURSE she meant to hurt her, that's what generally happens. :stare: I found it kind of funny.... and at the same time, didn't understand. Instantaneous reaction? It's like the anger behind attacking Juliet in the first place disappeared!

ETA: Zetaprime, I can appreciate the actress has skills. That doesn't mean her character automatically opens a can on everyone. It probably helped her get the job... but yeah. That cannot be the excuse for what we saw at the beginning of the episode tonight.

[zetaprime]

The Juliet character uses the skills that Mitchell has. It's not hard to imagine that at some point after recruitment Juliet was trained in martial arts. Kate isn't supposed to have formal martial arts training, so she ought to lose in any fight with Juliet, especially if she's handcuffed and Juliet isn't, as was the case in that rec room scene.

[Docteurmad]

I was glad that Juliet got the upper hand. Doctors, con men, fugitives and hunters are not necessarily super warriors.

[Susan B Anthony]

But back at the start of the season Doctor VS Doctor Jack just grabs her and throws her around like a rag doll, putting a piece of a plate to her neck and her only defense is a little stun gun that he just tosses to the side like it's nothing.

That was all part of the set-up to mess with Jack's mind. It showed that Ben was willing to sacrifice Juliet which made Jack think he and Juliet were in the same boat.....an illusion which Jack still holds, by the way.

I think TPTB are trying to keep us guessing about Juliet and are doing a pretty good job. I wouldn't lay money as to where her true loyalty lies -- which is part of the awesomeness of LOST!

p.s. Docteurmad, I love your sig! Will Patchy have a place in your hall of heroes? :Cheers:

[Docteurmad]

That was all part of the set-up to mess with Jack's mind. It showed that Ben was willing to sacrifice Juliet which made Jack think he and Juliet were in the same boat.....an illusion which Jack still holds, by the way.

I think TPTB are trying to keep us guessing about Juliet and are doing a pretty good job. I wouldn't lay money as to where her true loyalty lies -- which is part of the awesomeness of LOST!

p.s. Docteurmad, I love your sig! Will Patchy have a place in your hall of heroes? :Cheers:

My guess would be that now that she has no way to go back home, wherever this is, she has no reason to trust Ben anymore and Ben cannot bend her to his will anymore. He used the losties to heal him and to destroy the submarine. That being accomplished, I guess he got rid of everyone who wanted to leave the island.

p.s. You bet ;) Shame on me for not adding him sooner.

[clayseason1]

I don't trust anyone that Sayid doesn't trust. :D

I do think Juliet going back to the beach with them will be good for the storyline... far more complicated than Ana Lucia joining the survivors. I'm sure by the end of the season we'll all be frustrated with all the unsaid words and furtive looks the Jack, Juliet, Kate and Sawyer dynamic is sure to cause.

I'm not 100% sure Jack trusts her though. I know he acts like he does. I hope he doesn't. Jack finally displayed just how smart and clever he can be - I would hate to think that capacity has been dimininshed. Of course, we didn't get to see what transpired the whole time he's been in "othersville".

[Enoch Root]

Juliet's Bionics demo may have something to do with the Dharma experiments. Remember Ethan' super-human strength? Maybe the Dharma food is laced with steriods...lol.

[Khan]

The Others may have superior strength, we have good reason to think Juliet may have been given whatever it is they may take.
Juliet expected Kate to attack so she was ready, they knowall about her and wouldn't be stupid enough to just walk up on Kate who's been curiously locked in room with so many potential weapons.
The jungle smackdown Kate layed on her could have two meanings.
One, she let it happen, not expecting Kate to dislocate her shoulder. The move Kate used is not always used in fights.
Secondly Kate might be as ordinary as we think. I suspecting sooner or later one or more of the Losties is connected to Dharma, perhaps without knowing it.
It's not surprising Kate would apologize, she wanted to smack Juliet around not cause real damage, at heart Kate's a very compassionate person. Haven't you ever been a fight but didn't want to break a bone or whatever?

[Hodgepodge]

That was all part of the set-up to mess with Jack's mind. It showed that Ben was willing to sacrifice Juliet which made Jack think he and Juliet were in the same boat.....an illusion which Jack still holds, by the way.

I think TPTB are trying to keep us guessing about Juliet and are doing a pretty good job. I wouldn't lay money as to where her true loyalty lies -- which is part of the awesomeness of LOST!...SBA, I'm not sure I agree with your assumption. Taking this incident and adding Juliet wanting Jack to kill Ben on the operating table goes hand-in-hand. And right here I'm going to vacillate by saying, if both incidents were true. I agree, Juliet has been an awesome addition to the cast. My hats off to the acting skills of Elizabeth Mitchell. :Cheers:


My guess would be that now that she has no way to go back home, wherever this is, she has no reason to trust Ben anymore and Ben cannot bend her to his will anymore. He used the losties to heal him and to destroy the submarine. That being accomplished, I guess he got rid of everyone who wanted to leave the island...Docteurmad, I see you're on the side that thinks Juliet is an outcast. You maybe proven right, but I'm going to wait until the final round before making my decision. :nanabobo:


Juliet's Bionics demo may have something to do with the Dharma experiments. Remember Ethan' super-human strength? Maybe the Dharma food is laced with steriods...lol.Enoch Root, I'm glad you joined Lost-TV. I feel the same way. The "Others" may not be "normal".

And regarding the steroids! I say any records they set should be preceeded by an asterisk. ;)


...It's not surprising Kate would apologize, she wanted to smack Juliet around not cause real damage, at heart Kate's a very compassionate person. Haven't you ever been a fight but didn't want to break a bone or whatever?Here's another sign of Kate's compassion. Remember when they were cornered by "Smokie" in the tree-jail? Juliet seemed really and honestly terrified. Kate cupped Juliet's head to her shoulder. A sign of protection or sisterhood!

[Khan]

I missed that. While Lost was on I had someone wailing about a problem on the phone, a sick person on the couch, and was tired as hell from sitting at the hospital with someone for six hours when I watched it. I guess maybe I should look at it again.

[Enoch Root]

...Enoch Root, I'm glad you joined Lost-TV. I feel the same way. The "Others" may not be "normal".

And regarding the steroids! I say any records they set should be preceeded by an asterisk. ;)


Here's another sign of Kate's compassion. Remember when they were cornered by "Smokie" in the tree-jail? Juliet seemed really and honestly terrified. Kate cupped Juliet's head to her shoulder. A sign of protection or sisterhood!


Thanks! :Cheers:

Mmm, Kate can be amazing!

[Khan]

Kate has a soft heart, no matter what she does to protect herself, she's all mush at her core Which is the best thing for the strongest people to possess or we have hellish dictators who have the power to influence or control but only care about themselves.

[Susan B Anthony]

Kate has a soft heart, no matter what she does to protect herself, she's all mush at her core .

This is something I think Kate and Juliet have in common -- both have been hardened by experience, but that vulnerable core is still buried inside. We certainly saw Juliet's good, nurturing side, pre-Island in "Not in Portland." If you believe her tears over Colleen, it will still surface from time to time. Kate was battered by life at a pretty young age, so her toughness may run a little deeper. But from day one, Kate has forged relationships with many of the 815s, in stark contrast with Ana Lucia whose toughness seemed more inborn rather than a defense to circumstances.

Kate and Juliet will clash over Jack, but they are enough alike that, under the right circumstances, I think they could actually have a close relationship (kind of like Kate and Cassidy in "Left Behind"). Their similiarity will also let them recognize each other's deceptions. I think Kate will confront Jack about his trust of Juliet, but Jack will see it as jealousy and will continue to treat Kate as he always has, like a pesty little girl with a crush -- flattering, but not someone to treat as an equal.

[Khan]

So many people are talking about Kate being fickle, but when you look at her relationsonships with Sawyer and Jack from the beginning she's not really been fickle at all.

Kate always openly showed her interest in Jack, he was interested as well, but he always had a high handed, often haughty manner with her. Right after he found out she was criminal she was very anxious to explain her side of it to him. He wouldn't let her, cutting her short with a pronouncement that they all were starting over and dismissing the whole thing. That was a huge mistake because it took something for Kate to be willing to open up to him, it mattered to her that he heard and understood what happened. It not only cut, it left her with the knowledge that her past is in his head without any balance showing why she did something bad. He could be imagining the worse or seeing her as lesser person it he didn't know the full story.

He actions came back later to bite him in the ass when Kate pitted him against Sawyer to get inside the case. Then he self-rightously demanded she tell him what happened , what she told him was he had his chance. The wall he built between them was now harder to get around.

It cost him in another way, Kate began hang with Sawyer more often, we find in the great boar chase they went on it was because he was the only person on the Island she felt comfortable with. By that time Jack had a few more blunders with her under his belt, his superior attitude, constantly dismissing her abilities, and pushing her aside was creating an even bigger wedge.

The things that happened in S2 made the situation even worse, before it was over we see his nastiest attitude toward her displayed, with him treating crazed murdering maniac with warmth and attention and giving Kate the biggest cold shoulder possible. He also put her firmly out of the loop on everything at that point, Hurley probably knew more of what was happening. Kate who had been one of the leaders, was now a disgraced Redshirt by his will alone.
Her crime for that harsh punishment was tagging along on thier failed mission, something he had determined this extremely competant woman who's went on more than one dangous outing shouldn't allowed to do. It was a disaster, but he never took any responsility for his part in what happened.

Now in S3, we're supposed to believe this man is so completely in love with Kate he freaked seeing her with man that up until then he helped her turn to by treating her like she was an unruly child and forever giving her mixed signals?

I think Jack took Kate's always running back to him ,trying to get his attention and respect after he kicked her away for granted. It would be far more realistic if the character stopped feeling sorry for himself and spent some time facing his behavior toward her, his part in her becoming closer and closer to another man.

Kate more than anything needs to find a place of rest, someone she can be open about her past with not fearing that he will look down on her for it, someone who will include her in his life without resevation. She tried repeatly to trust Jack, he repeatly turned her efforts against her.

They need to address those issues if they want us to really believe Jack is that deeply wounded. It could be they're rushing the romance angle, to set up the quad, but it's still too much of a stretch to accept after Jack's behavior since day one that he's suffering anything more than wounded pride with some real regret over what he seemed to have lost.