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View Full Version : Eureka, I'm gonna try it again


joepa15425
12-08-04, 01:22 AM
Hello all, thought it was time to throw my two cents in. Hopefully you will find what I'm about to say at least interesting. This is my first post, but I’ve been lurking for quite some time. I've looked for a theory like mine, but haven't found one. If this is somebody else’s, then I'm sorry, and well done because I think this is the path to understanding LOST.

OK. Like many of you, I have been approaching the mysteries of lost much the same way a detective analyzes a crime or an archeologist studies the pyramids. For example, I wanted to weigh in when I actually had something to say, so I decided to sit down, re watch all the episodes, study them with great care, making notes, asking myself questions, searching for clues. I did that today. What I found was kinda obscure yet so obvious that I felt the writer was smiling from ear to ear knowing he 'got us'.

See the reason my approach was flawed is because this crime hasn't happened yet, and the pyramid wasn't built yet. Meaning, who the hell knows what's gonna happen in the end. Yes we all know that it's fiction, but we delve into the what ifs, whys and hows. I bet if you asked the writer, he would say he doesn't know either, not yet. But I believe I found the common thread. Although I haven't found the answers we all want (I still believe they don’t' all exist yet), I have found the Rosetta Stone that I believe can and will reveal the secrets. They may not be the ones we want, but here goes anyhow.

Alrighty, like I said, I rewatched all the episodes and took notes, blah blah blah. Whilst perusing my copious notes one episode stood out like a sore thumb. Not for the obvious reasons but for the not so obvious one. For example, each episode had some kind of island drama in it, monsters, treetop pilots, polar bears, transmissions, dead people walking, attacks from behind, french women. All but one that is— episode 8, Confidence Man.

It was a good episode, but nothing really happens that makes you wonder. It seemed all the questions were answered. It got me thinking. This would be a great time to give the big clue. The one if I’m the writer, I can point out later and say, why didn’t you see it, it was so obvious. Maybe the reason we didn’t see it (and again if somebody did mention this I’ll defer credit) is because the most it seems we could discuss about that episode was whether or not Locke was the real Sawyer (yawn). I had no notes on episode 8, as I wasn’t looking for character threads, just island mysteries. No notes cept one–WATERSHIP DOWN, the book Sawyer was reading, that belonged to Boone.

Out of curiosity and because I work near the local library I checked the book out today. I’m not gonna pretend I read it, I didn’t (it’s over 400 pages). I rented the movie instead, and watched it. There were so many obvious references to LOST I didn’t even have to pay attention to catch them. I’m sure I missed the most important, or perhaps they lie in the book where I think our favorite writer would be a bigger fan. I’m not gonna get into detail about the story. But basically it’s about a bunch of rabbits who because of a psychic vision by one of the rabbits leave there home for a new place to live. Basically most of the rabbits aren’t high up on the pecking order, aren’t highly regarded, (sound familiar?) So they leave because of impending doom as foretold by the vision. Along the way they come in contact with other rabbits and other natural dangers that threaten them, basically they long for peace and tranquility. Along the way, they realize they have no female rabbits so the must go steal some from the local farmer. In addition they do battle with an evil General (what was Locke called by his Risk playing buddy?)
Did you all notice the scratches on Kate and Jacks faces through most of the early episodes, hell the might still be there for all I know they are so obvious. Well in the book some rabbits are given a mark to identify who belongs to who by being scratched. The marks look striking similar to our two heroes.

In the beginning of their quest, just as it’s beginning, one of the rabbits is suddenly and unexpectedly killed. Not much to it, it just happens, and nothing is said again about it. Sound like the woman drowning early on?

Let’s see what else? (I’m saving the big one for the end) The song in the movie sung by Art Garfunkel is called Bright Eyes. What’s a pet name Sawyer calls Kate?

There’s more but I’ll leave it to you guys to investigate further, if you are so inclined, but here’s something from the book I noticed while I was checking it out. In the back of the book is a section called Lapine Glossary. The very first entry is (this comes word for word from the book) Bob-Stones: A Traditional game among rabbits. (See footnote on page 246.)

Turning to page 246, the following is the footnote, verbatim. * Bob-stones is a traditional game of rabbits. It is played with small stones, fragments of stick or the like. Fundamentally it is a very simple kind of gambling, on the lines of “Odds or Evens” A “cast” of stones on the ground is covered by the player’s front paw. The Opponent must then hazard some sort of surmise about its nature–e.g. one or two, light or dark, rough or smooth.

I’ll leave you with that, I think it’s obvious. The series, I believe is based perhaps loosely perhaps not, on Watership Down.&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Sorry about the earlier botched post, my pc sometimes has a mind of it’s own. --JoePA

joepa15425
12-08-04, 01:32 AM
I haven't really tried to tie the two together yet (Lost and Watership Down), but perphaps it can be done by understanding the book better. For example, either Adam or Eve was gambling for each other and they drew the stones and were then allowed to go off and mate. Maybe, I dunno just a thought. That's why they had the two stones in their possession. Make sense?

schweinhaxe
12-08-04, 02:20 AM
Nice work joepa and welcome to the board.

Here's a thread, among others, on Watership Down. You could bump it up by adding some of your insight.

p073.ezboard.com/flostthe...=119.topic (http://p073.ezboard.com/flosttheunofficalforumfortheabcseriesfrm29.showMes sage?topicID=119.topic)
or here
p073.ezboard.com/flostthe...=528.topic (http://p073.ezboard.com/flosttheunofficalforumfortheabcseriesfrm2.showMess age?topicID=528.topic)

drabauer
12-08-04, 06:05 AM
Although Watership down has been discussed often on this board (check out Lost Literary Allusions index (http://www.swedishpoet.com/lostlit.html), I don't recall anyone linking the scratches on our heroes faces to the "brands" in the book, nor Joanna's drowning and the dead rabbit near the beginning of the story, nor Sawyer's nicknames OR the rabbit stone game.

There is an interview with one of the producers in which he discusses Watership Down as a formative book for him (there's a link to it somewhere in the General Dis threads). It also made me think of Donnie Darko, where WD also serves to reflect a plot with similar themes of alienation and moral ambiguity.

joepa15425
12-08-04, 12:04 PM
I'll stop beating the Watership Down theory drum in here if you all want me too, but I do believe that there is more to it than meets the eye. There was a scene in the movie Watership Down (I still haven't read the book) where the rabbits get caught out in the open by a fox. The strong, resourceful, brave rabbit, BigWig, runs off to draw the fox off. He disappears unseen over a hillside with the fox chasing, a noise of panic or pain is heard. Then BigWig reappears but no fox is chasing him. The others are astounded, they were certain they heard him cry out, but he offers some lame explanation. He says, “I just stopped, to get ready to run”. Then he says, that he met some others and they wanted him to stay but he pushed them out of the way and kept going. He thinks the fox got them instead. It’s very vague, but the thing is, it happens so quickly. It’s a meant to make the audience say, there wasn’t enough time for all that to happen, so therefore he’s not being truthful. This scene made me think a little of Charlie when he was running with Kate and jack from the cockpit in the first episode. It made me think of Locke a lot when he went on his first hunt with Kate and I believe Michael. Maybe Locke came in contact with somebody or something who tested him with the stones, or as they are called in Watership Down, Bob-stones. Either way, both characters in lost and the character in WS went up against a something that should have killed them, but yet they all survived, unscathed and a little vague and mysterious about their encounters. One more note of mention. The author of WS, Richard Adams writes in his Acknowledgments, “I am indebted, for knowledge of rabbits and their ways, to Mr. R.M. Lockely’s remarkable book, the Secret Life of the Rabbit.”

One more thing, in the book rabbits can't count past 4 years. Probably not significant, but i remember somebody posting a reoccuring mention of 4 years.
–JoePa

schweinhaxe
12-08-04, 01:37 PM
"I'll stop beating the Watership Down theory drum in here if you all want me too, but I do believe that there is more to it than meets the eye."

Joepa,

I don't think anyone wants you to stop beating the WD theory drum. It's just that duplicate threads get overlooked when there are more "established" threads of the same topic(not to mention the title of your thread doesn't include the words " Wateraship Down") and your ideas might not make the screens of others that would want to discuss it with you.

If you want to start beating the purgatory drum that's a different story......(Don't do it. Trust me.)

joepa15425
12-08-04, 01:43 PM
Noted

morbius47
12-08-04, 02:00 PM
Did someone say purgatory?

*Original STOP members converge on Morbius like demons in Angel finale*

joepa15425
12-08-04, 02:19 PM
Umm... I never said anthing about purgutory

morbius47
12-08-04, 02:37 PM
No, but schweinhaxe did.


Charlie.

schweinhaxe
12-08-04, 02:41 PM
I played drums for a band called "Purgatory" in college.:b

cccourt
12-08-04, 02:54 PM
JOEPA: Don't stop. Perhaps the comments and links were given so that you can compare what has come before. Your entire discussion is formidable and expressed well.

Give us more....because frankly..when the book came out, I couldn't get through it. Never saw the movie. You have piqued my interest...think I will give it another try. THANKS.

ccc

Micah Smith
12-08-04, 03:38 PM
hmm this will give me something to read and then think about other than looking up references to norse mythology and figure out when ragnarok is gonna happen on lost.

Colonel Sanders luvs Lost
12-08-04, 03:57 PM
Wow joepa15425!!

Your posts are a joy to read. Please update us with anymore similarities that you may see between WD & LOST.

Thanks!

:)

morbius47
12-08-04, 05:10 PM
Sun

redmption
12-08-04, 05:29 PM
I saw a part of this black and white movie once where Death was going to kill one of the people but you could get out of it by beating him at chess. Of course no one ever beat him and they died. (This was also parodied in Bill and Teds Bogus Journey) So maybe what they are contronting in the jungle is death and the game you are referring to in Watership down is their escape from that...