Need to vent. Yes, Jack is mentioned

[Matthew is a fox]

I just needed to get this off my chest. I like the character of Jack very much and I know he's not going to be everyone's favorite character. In fact, Jack may be the last on their list. However, I am getting quite fed up with all the posts I read from Sawyer fans about them not liking Jack because he seems like a "hero/sissy/goody goody type." What is so wrong with playing a nice character? Playing a nice man shouldn't make him either of those things. Is anyone else getting irritated with the amount of Sawyer fans on here complaining about Jack?


P.S- Yes I realize that they all aren't coming from Sawyer fans, but the majority of posts are.

[KingLancelot]

Hello,

Yes, sometimes it gets old when people continuously get on Jack's case.

I like Jack, and I also like Sawyer.

Being a nice man, does not make him any of those things, Jack is a very important part of the show.

His character is perhaps, noble.... He tries to save everyone he can if possible, and maybe sometimes is to hard on himself.

Jack may every now and then make mistakes, but he's only human.

Take Care,
KingLancelot.

P.S. It's good to vent, don't wanna keep all that inside ya' know.;)

[CaribbeanSwan]

I know what you guys mean. It's difficult to understand, even more because I don't see the same antagonism towards Sawyer from people who like Jack’s character, except when pushed by some completely annoying comment or thread bashing Jack.

But I’ve realized that those comments are usually irrational (even when sometimes painted to be so level-headed, frequently cleverly enough to convince themselves and a few others), so I tend more and more to don’t care.

I think it is just an underlying concern of Sawyer’s fans that, when compared to Jack (by themselves), Sawyer looks really bad, and that irritates them. So the approach they use to counteract on this, is to undermine Jack. They could really like Sawyer and just enjoy whatever it is they enjoy about him without worrying so much about Jack, really!!

Well, it's their lost.

[Matthew is a fox]

I agree, they worry way to much about Jack and what he does. When I first came here, it appeared that SO MANY people were anti Jack and even though when members started to increase, the Jack fans started to increase, it's still irritating. If you don't like Jack then fine, but what is so hard with just staying in the fan forum of the person you like, discussing that person/character and leaving out the person/character you hate the most? Some people thrive on getting the best of others, but I just don't know how much longer I am going to stay on this forum since the Sawyer fans are being really immature. I guess you could say Sawyer would be proud at the way his fans are behaving |I

[morbius47]

Is it okay if I say BOTH Jack and Sawyer are pansies? Just wondering under what conditions it is okay to bash the incompetent Dr. Jack.

[Clementine Kruczynski]

Morb I think if you threw something about Boone in there you could bash anybody you wanted to.

[CaribbeanSwan]

Well, if that’s your thing, go ahead, why would you need approval?

Anyway, defining characters as “pansies” (either Jack or Sawyer or even Boone) is not something that will go anywhere, so, it’s not interesting. Too superficial.

[MiladyRomance]

I know what you guys mean. It's difficult to understand, even more because I don't see the same antagonism towards Sawyer from people who like Jack’s character, except when pushed by some completely annoying comment or thread bashing Jack.

Caribbean Swan,

I agree, I see quite a few Jack bashing threads in his thread, which is very irritating, but I never lash back at Sawyer fans, or other fans.

I really like both Sawyer & Jack on the show. :D

[Matthew is a fox]

I try not to lash back but it does happen occasionally. I wish I could recruit more Jack fans lol ;)

[broerox]

Seriously, what is wrong with being a good guy? Jack is genuine and actually cares about people. That doesn't make him a wimp or boring or a "pansy". I don't see the appeal of Sawyer at all. The man is racist and an overall sleaze. Being a pig doesn't one interesting.

[Matthew is a fox]

Well, to the Sawyer fans, being a pig DOES make one interesting lol. I probably would take a different angle if Sawyer was the guy "people love to hate" as some have mentioned. However, he is the person people "worship" and I find that really bizarre. The Sawyer fans love the guy and defend him left and right saying that he is "a great man, just misunderstood." No, he's not misunderstood, he's just mean. They are in denial.

[broerox]

The Sawyer fans love the guy and defend him left and right saying that he is "a great man, just misunderstood." No, he's not misunderstood, he's just mean. They are in denial.
Well those people are clearly watching some other show. Sawyer has not ONCE shown a shred of decency. We are talking about a man that made a profession out of stealing money and ruining lives. Since the crash he has done nothing to help anyone, shown compassion for no one, and worked hard at turning a bad situation worse. I find the Sawyer worship bizarre as well. If you like the guy fine, but please people stop trying to rewrite the guy into some poor wounded soul.

[Wynter Zera]

I don't know that Sawyer fans hate Jack. I don't hate him. I usually find him boring, often times illogical and perfectionistic, but I don't hate the character. (In fact the only character I hate would be Shannon.) I think a lot of Sawyer fans react to hate comments lots of Jack fans seem to have posted toward Sawyer.

Honestly, I could see him becoming a great character eventually (if they keep him). Right now I just don't care for him. The same could happen with Shannon giving the right development.

[TheHammerOfGod]

"Well those people are clearly watching some other show. Sawyer has not ONCE shown a shred of decency."

Hmmm..not hurting Sayid when he has the chance
helping Michael from Jin
Giving Hurley the manifest
helping in the trap for ethan
sending off the flare signal

yeah, not ONE thing.

[azteclady]

Hammer,

You forgot - giving Kate the laptop battery to right the transceiver, and giving Claire the wallets he had scavenged from the bodies in the fuselage, for her im memoriam ceremony.


Follow the link in my signature first, PM me second

[TheHammerOfGod]

Thank you azteclady, thats two more. But of course, he's just a evil racist ass :rolleyes

[CaribbeanSwan]

Wow, that was tasteful and respectful, the title… just Sawyer’ style…

Amazing, how people see want they want to see:

1. Hmmm..not hurting Sayid when he has the chance – not to mention that Sayid (or is it Abdul, Al-Jazeera, Muhammed, Omar, Ali?) just stopped him from doing what he DEFINITELY was going to do by making him interested in the French woman/the others account: that’s why he stopped;

2. helping Michael from Jin –granted, he did it because he likes Michael sooo much, and because he wanted so much to do the right thing;

3. Giving Hurley the manifest – did so highly amused, after some begging and because he had nothing to lose, and just for once being nice to a guy he’s just mocked before (lardo, pork pie, stay-puft, never Hurley). Hurley also had to tell him “'Cause, dude, you could use the points”;

4. helping in the trap for ethan – survival/self-defense mode, no other choice that to adapt and stick to the group;

5. sending off the flare signal – “rescue-me too” mode, no other choice that to adapt and stick to the group HE DESPISES;

6. giving Kate the laptop battery to right the transceiver – hmmm… this is crazy, but I think he likes Kate, he wants something from her… I know, crazy…; it just took her a little begging to get it, nothing out he ordinary;

7. giving Claire the wallets he had scavenged from the bodies in the fuselage, for her im memoriam ceremony – heroic, simply outstanding: nobody else would have thought of returning a scavenged personal belonging, after the owner asks for it.

Guess I'm up for an outburst from the very composed, fair moderator, as I have seen before in this board (poor runloganrun, must be still sore). I think Jimmmi was right about this "club".

[Coulrophobic421]

They see Sawyer as a tortured soul that can be redeemed by the love of a good woman or some such. He can be a total asshole 99.99% of the time, but all he needs to do is get that kicked puppy look going for a few seconds and they all want to be the one to save him. A completely ridiculous notion, but fairly common nonetheless.

That being said, I still enjoy Sawyer as a character. He does keep things interesting. If everyone was always helpful and nice to everyone else all the time, it'd get pretty dull.

I also like Jack. I don't know why some people feel it has to be an either/or thing.

[azteclady]

Coulrophobic said:
"I also like Jack. I don't know why some people feel it has to be an either/or thing."

I don't either.



Beto

[TheHammerOfGod]

Sorry man, but your beliefs on Sawyer's motives are beyond asinine. I am a man, and I like Sawyer's character, it aint nothing to do with his looks obviously. Yeah, he's an asshole. But he's not a racist and he's not evil. Im an Irishman, born and raised in Dublin, Sawyer's attitude is quite similiar to my own, as far as his sarcasm, that's one reason I enjoy his character.

[roswellhippie]

ok
who wants to watch a tv show with a bunch of people running around loving eachother? boring....the whole point of entertainment is plots...characters....etc....I think some of you have your real world and tv world confused.

[Claire]

Jack is one of my favorite characters, and really, it's been bothering me too. I don't see why people have to make fun of him and dislike him becuase he is a good, decent, repectable person.

[mystjade]

I don't see why people have to make fun of him and dislike him becuase he is a good, decent, repectable person.


Clair you summed up jack's personalty perfectly. Jack is a good decent Honorable person (and he is probably my favorite character), but that's why most people don't like him. They want someone who is more unrealistic, a character, someone they can easily lace into a category. A character that there familiar with, that they have seen before in other shows. Lindsey, Kate, and charlie, too some extant are those characters Jack is not.

[azteclady]

My apologies to both Claire and mystjade but I seriously disagree with you assessment.

By reading the threads in this forum, as well as others elsewhere [like the episodes discussions], I find that many people dislike Jack because he's not all that decent, morally superior, etc.

At the same time, characters that are either all white or all black are found only in fiction - real people do have flaws. Which is why I like LOST and most of its characters, by the way.

Then again, I take exception to people who can justify anything in one character and condemn everything in another - but that's probably just me.


Beto
Got a question/problem/complaint? Follow the link in my signature first, read the entire welcome forum second, then PM me.

[mystjade]

I apologize for my previous post, I realize how it could easly be misconstrued, and how i left out vital points from my argument.

I am not condemning any other characters, I like sawyer, Hurley, and Charlie, and I never said anything to the contrary. I also never said that jack was morally superior. In fact in 'the why do people hate, jack' thread, i defend3m him as a tragic hero rather then a more cliched hero/ villain.

A tragic hero like Oedipus, or Odysseus can be a amoral at time's. Jack is Honorable in the fact that he tries to follow a moral code. Most people on other threads seem to have a problem with jack because, he is fallible and hard to classify

[Pink Pinker]

What confuses me is why Sawyer fans would come into the Jack board just to bash him. I'm not to personally fond of Sawyer, but that doesn't mean I'm going to go onto his board and talk about how eveil he is. I'll just stay away from it. Thats what really bothers me. I can sort of see why people like Sawyer, but bashng another character is just plain rude.

[azteclady]

Pink Pinker, allow me to explain then: each character board is to discuss the character - and that means both the positive and the negative. Most characters in LOST have both aspects, which what makes them so interesting for many of us.


Beto
Got a question/problem/complaints? Follow the link in my signature first, read the entire Welcome forum second, then PM me.

[Pink Pinker]

I understand, but what I meant was that we can talk about Jack's negative aspects, but not in Just 'Jack sux, I hate him" sort of manner.

[Captain Jack Sparrow]

I like Jack. I think he plays an immportent part on lost. If their was no doctor, Rose(Black lady) would have died. Clarie's baby may not have been such a succesful delivery. As for Boone. Well he would have died either way I think. But Jack is a good charactor!

[banshee]

I love Jack..

I think the ppl who don't care for him have a difficult time identifying w/his grey area...He's the hero & therefore should be hero all the time. So when he messes up it's unacceptable....Also on the flip side when he does heroic acts he's seen as a goody goody because then ppl can't relate with someone who would put himself in harm's way for others. Thus I think there's a tendency to support a character on the way to redemption vs. say a hero's fall from grace.

Thing is Jack isn't one dimensional....He's not just the hero which can become an archetype he can get pigeon holed into...He's often viewed through a black/white filter-he can never do enough right, & shouldn't do any wrong. So I think the human being, the man struggling just like everyone else gets lost on some. It's ok for him to try to do the right thing, but it's also ok in trying so hard, to be given the benefit when he messes up. He deserves to have flaws.

I also think his subtle complexities frequently get missed. To me he makes you think & is that which is hiding in plain view...You have to pay attention w/him because he's quite sutble in his clues... I find a lot of dramatic, emotional, & psychological layers to him. I know he seems straight forward, but after spending much time psychoanalyzing him as one of my fav characters, I think there's a lot there that's very interesting, & very compelling.

Ppl can't always put their finger on why they do or don't like a character & shouldn't have to. However, often times when I see someone presenting intellectual facts as to why not to like him, it's really just interpretation...Some will ascribe attributes to him I'd never even associate w/his character such as being judgmental, sanctimonious, chauvinistic, or controlling. I could list why I don't find those true at all but we only have so much space LOL...So in essence it's like some just don't like him & try to assign characteristics he doesn't have to fit that perception. Not all folks, just some in my experience.

I think there's a lot more to him to be revealed. I think he's really the last bastion in terms of the character we think we know, but will come to gain more insight into by the end of the season....And not necessarily in a bad way, just a different way than is widely perceived. I hope it helps ppl who haven't been warmed by his character to better identify w/the pain & stress he has had to endure.

I'd also agree I do think there's a distinction between character bashing, & constructive discussion about their flaws & negative points...I'm more open to the constructive because it may help you learn something.

[Dominic Love]

yea actually i find all the people that find jack a annoying woosie very irratating....hes probably braver than most people on the island. they should stop hating him and appriciate what he does for everyone on the island.

<3

[Lost In His Eyes]

Although I am a Jack fan, I don't really care if people bash him. I just laugh it off because everyone is entitled to their opinion and if they want to rant and rave about how much they hate him, more power to them. Hell, I sometimes rant about how much I don't like Locke! (I never rave though!) :D If you don't like people bashing him, don't read threads that about how much people hate him! Problem solved! :D

[Mattie]

I like Jack because he tries to be a good character. He has huge flaws...but everyone on the island does.

[Khan]

I've been reading the posts from all the Jack lovers and I understand your feelings. The problem is that for all of those who dislike Jack or dislike something he's doing and want to talk about this is where they put you.
I don't think you should post something negative just to annoy Jack fans,but there's no separate place to vent when you really hate what a character is like or doing.
As for Sawyer fans coming here to take it out on Jack maybe some do. Maybe it's because the show is giving Jack so much air time at the expense of other characters. Great for the Jack lovers,but terrible for the rest of us.
My reason for disliking Jack is not because he's decent,etc.
I question that he is, he was way too quick to help torture someone, but because I find him holier than thou, foolish in his decisions,rash, and a lousy leader.
He has his moments.
But I don't think the show should center around him or any one person,even one of my favorites, I liked it best when it was more of a group show. Some of the main people we still don't get to see enough of.

[KateSheppard]

I think if the show didn't have Jack it would be another character, etc. However, the thing that is intriguing about Jack is not only that he is a basically good force against the bad (you can come up with your own comments here) , but like someone else mentioned, Jack has his own flaws and walls that prevent him from getting close to others on the island. Yeah he has people like Kate, Sayid, Charlie and Hurly that sort of give him a peace of mind, but he's the classic tortured hero who has his own struggles mentally while worrying about everyone else's on the island.

The problem with this is that the rest of the characters and also viewers have Jack on a pedestal in the sense that he is kept in such high regard as a noble and caring person that when he does do something we consider out of character such as when he pulls the gun on Locke, etc. we are reminded that he is human and not some robot that is automatically doing things for other people on the island whenever needed.

I dont think Sawyer is inherently evil. I think that Sawyer and jack are a like actually in a lot of ways. Both have similar horrible child hoods with their fathers treating them badly. It's just that one turned out a lot different than the other. Sawyer does have the capability to care, as we know from the letter he wrote himself when he was a boy and has held on to for years.

He probably figures that if he's going to be miserable on the island, he might as well make everyone else miserable too. But I defiantely am seeing a change in him after being on the raft with Michael, etc. Sawyer is just one of those guys that knows how to push buttons to get what he wants. We all are aware that he's a bigot, etc. But I think that deep down he is just giving people what they want to hear from a guy like him. It seems that people have arleady made up their minds about Sawyer so he really doens't seem to care who he impresses or not with the exception of Kate who is the one he seems to realte to most on the island.

I am sort of surprised that Locke and Sawyer haven't become "buddies". Though they are both so secretive, etc, that theyd' probably end up killing each other if they had to work on a mission together.

Anyway my point is that Jack and Sawyer are both very intriguing characters. I dont really consider one better than the other as they both have similar flaws and are carrying their own emotional baggage which we will hopefully see unpacked in the episodes to come. Though I think it is childish to say that one character is better than the other, etc. I think they both are valuable characters to the show and the show would not be the same without either. I wonder if we would be hving this same conversation if the writers had killed off Jack like they wanted to in the beginning like they mentioned on the bonus features.

[Khan]

It would be interesting if they had carried out thier plan.They wanted Kate to be the hero,her husband being on the plane but not found. Instead they switched that to Rose and gave Jack the hero role.
If Jack had died would Kate be as high-handed as he is?
Is Jack the writers idea of a leader? Ahh,but heroes and leaders can be two different animals. And you can be a great leader in one field but not another. Sawyer saws true hero traits(when he wants), but he's not the leader type. Not unless being on the island changes him.It could happen because extreme conditions can change anyone.