Did Jack Do It?

[Memoh]

After that guy botches the mercy shooting, Jack goes back into the tent. After a moment there is silence. Now Jack said, that it would take hours for the marshall to bleed out....

Did Jack perform a mercy killing himself?

[Steve580]

I assumed so...good decision, I guess, to waste all your antibiotics and other medications on an injured man, and then :x kill him.
-Steve

[edinkc]

I would say yes. I suppose we won't know for sure until the next episode.

Up until now the only medications mentioned are the antibiotics, but there could be pain killers.

Jack clearly states just a few scenes earlier that he is not a killer.

With this show expect a twist.

(and what a shame to kill off a good plot line between Kate and the marshall.)

[Uri the Sun Goddess]

I wondered about Jack killing the Marshal too. He looked pretty sick/disgusted/upset when he came out. And yeah...happened way too quickly. Poor Jack.

Uri

[OneFoolOfATook]

Okay, I Think Jack Did It For A Couple reasons That Are All Connected, Someone said in the chat that that would violate his hypocratic oath...well....yes but no. Jack is (or maybe WAS) a doctor. And as a doctor he is sworn to protect human life, however, the main was going to die no matter WHAT he did. HIS LUNG WAS PUNCTURED! the only solution was to kill him, euthonasia man (dagnabit....someone just spelled that for me too.....) if he didn't end the mans sufring, THE GUY WOULD HAVE SUFFERED FOR HOURS! Jack would have had no choice, which would explain the look he had...he was horrified at what he had been made to do. It's not something he wanted to do, but he had to step up and do it. He had to push himself aside and help the man by killing him. Letting him suffer would have viloated his oath. Doing somthing....well.... wouldn't you want someone to do it for you if there was no way to save you.
My two cents
Plus A nickle

- - -

[Steve580]

I could be wrong here, but I'm pretty sure the oath doesn't allow for mercy killings. That, I thought, is why he didn't do the logical thing, and kill the Fed earlier (Jack said the Fed was going to die in a few days, yet continued to treat him).
-Steve

[cccourt]

It was Sawyer. Didn't you see Jack telling him: "you missed his heart. You hit him in the lungs...and it will take him hours to bleed out."
ccc

[toonaspie]

I'm suprised that we didnt see anyone running out screaming "HELL, WAS THAT A GUNSHOT?!!!"

[OneFoolOfATook]

I'm suprised that we didnt see anyone running out screaming "HELL, WAS THAT A GUNSHOT?!!!"
I was thinking that too....
And yeah, I know Mercy Killing's Ain't Aloud
We all remember "Doctor Corvorcan" (or however it's spelled)
But Still, In that situation.....how could he not, in good conciounes? sure it's gonna plauge him for the rest of his life, but he had no choice.

- - -

[sing4themoment]

I think Jack did do it because lik i said in another post, being dead is better than suffering. And ya...Sawyer SHOT him but didnt kill him.

Haha good point there with the screaming of the gunshot...prolly cut it out

Damn, the ending was sooo long...

[Steve580]

And yeah, I know Mercy Killing's Ain't Aloud...But Still, In that situation.....how could he not, in good conciounes? sure it's gonna plauge him for the rest of his life, but he had no choice.
Yeah, but wasn't he in that situation for the even before PB Killer shot the Fed? I mean, he told Fugitive Girl that the Fed would only live a few more days, and that he'd be in great pain the whole time; yet he didn't kill the Fed then. Instead, he (rather senselessly, in my opinion) continued to give him medicine.

-Steve

[OneFoolOfATook]

Okay, yeah, continuing to give him medicine was senssless....but in a hospital you continue to give a dying man medicine even if he is dying becuase he is dying SLOWLY
Fed Got shot in the LUNG. Which was then filling with fluid and no longer working. There was no chance. Not even a hypothetical one, whereas with the shrapnel wound he could still say it was "touch and go" all the odds then were on him dying, but he could still hope.
Shot in the chest like that....there was no hope, especialy since they weren't AT or NEAR a hospital.

- - -

[lost1]

mentioned above, "it's a shame that they ruined a good story line between Kate and the federal Marshall"

i think we're going to keep gong further back in Kate's travels and the federal Marshall pursuit of her...we'll find out what she did....by the way - how uncanny is it that she looks like Jennifer Garner -

What if it went back to her being....you know who!

Would you put it past JJ?

[Why its Mr U]

Put me down as a no, I think he patched the sucking chest wound and gave the marshal what drugs he could to ease the pain then left because he couldn't stand to sit there and watch the marshal bleed to death since there was no longer anything he could do.

[OneFoolOfATook]

he patched him up, gave him what drugs he could, and then just left cause he couldn't stand to watch?
......
screwed up doctor
But everyone is entitled to an opnion and theory, we'll just have to wait and see.

- - -

[Hooster]

I don't know... There was a lot of grunting in pain and struggling for breath, then all of a sudden silence. Either he passed out from the pain or Jack ended it all for him.

Me, I was under the impression Jack finished him off. I wonder how, though. Strangulation? Is strangulation even a word? :D

[OneFoolOfATook]

It is a word.
I don't know if it's spelled right
I'm a typo queen meself :D
I thought maybe he suffocated him. Horrid way to die, but quicker and less time to deal with pain then a bullet in the lung. There Is no less painful way of dying.

- - -

[Why its Mr U]

How would that make him a screwed up doctor? Since they are trained to save lifes and Jack had spent hours trying, why would not being able to watch his patient die be that hard to believe?

I would say passed out from the drugs or pain.

Strangulation is a word but smothering would have been easier.

[Uri the Sun Goddess]

My first thought was suffocation too, Took.

Uri

[OneFoolOfATook]

In my mind it makes him a screwed up doctor because it makes him a coward....a character flaw and perhaps something that harkens back to his past......but I don't like the idea of him just giving the guy medication, patching him up, and then simply leaving him alone to die on his own simply cause he couldn't stand to be there. BUt we all make bad decisions and it proves him not perfect, which I do like. However, he's just gonna leave the man alone to die? nobody wants to die alone like that, with a bullet in his chest and no possible way of surviving. It's the whole POINT of mercy killing.
But Thats My opinion.

- - -

[Hooster]

Suffocation! That was the word I was really trying to think of. That is what I think happened.

[martianprobe]

I'm thinking strangulation for some reason. The Marshall is dead.. there were a few last breaths and then a grunt and then silence. Doc comes out, gives dude a dirty look and strides disgustedly away.

[Why its Mr U]

Respecting life and not playing God is hardly cowardice. So called mercy killing is done to prevent pain not so that the patient doesn't die alone. Since the marshal was unconcious it wouldn't matter if Jack was there or not. Another thing is the show jumped from that point to the next morning (by which time we assume the marshal is dead either with or without further attempts to kill him) so maybe Jack walked down to the beach to get himself some water and then went back to the tent.
***
Having just rewatched that potion on tape, i'm starting to wonder if you are right. Given his earlier disgust at the idea I didn't think he would but Jack does have kind of a "Oh my God what did I just do" look when exiting.

Arrgh this is going to be a what exactly did happen show. We'll probably never get totally clear answers.

[Suil Liath]

Duh! It never occured to me Jack di dit. I just thought the guy got lucky and pegged out quickly.

I'm glad to see Sawyer, Mr. Macho, make a major @#%$ up.
Why he didn't just shoot the guy in the head is beyond me.

-Kit-

[OneFoolOfATook]

Respecting life and not playing God is hardly cowardice.
Not at all what I meant. It's a hard topic to discuss because it involves peoples beliefs and values on life and death and all the stuff leading up to death. I meant he was a coward for not being able to stay with a dying man. but you make a good point, maybe he did just go to get water or something.
I still think he gave the man mercy.
hee, and yeah, this may be one of those things we never know the truth of....maybe its better that way.
And I really Loved Saywer Screwing Up Like That, too. That Was Horrific. Mr. Tough Guy Thought He Did A Noble Thing That Dr. Jack Couldn't Do, He Had Himself On A Pedestol And Then It Was Yanked Out From Under Him.
Nice.

- - -

[CrazieBlueEyes]

Out of compassion, Jack killed the Marshall. He would not have, had Sawyer not intensified the man's suffering by misfiring.

As for the Hippocratic oath, I am certain that it does not endorse mercy killings. But now Jack is on an island where there are no laws, no boundaries, no oaths. He can only be guided by his own sense of morality and what is just.

CBE

[OneFoolOfATook]

He can only be guided by his own sense of morality and what is just.
Exactaly.
And I Don't Think For A SECOND He Would Have Done A Thing Besides Ease The Guys Suffering Through Medication If Sawyer Hadn't Shot Him.
But Here's The Catch.
The Marshal WANTED TO DIE!
Sawyer Just Effed It Up.
Maybe Jack Saw How Badly The Man Wanted To Die, Weighed His Options, Knew He Couldn't Save Him, And Granted His Wish.

- - -

[Baron X]

Of course he did it, but gosh darn it he was not happy about it. there would be no point in giving him drugs, besides we have no proof he found any pain killers, he was looking for stuff to treat the infection. I think he snuffed him with a blanket or something similar.

[maxpublic]

Jack killed the marshall. He told Sawyer it would take hours for the marshall to bleed out, then told Sawyer to get out of the tent. Moments later you hear someone strangling, then silence. Jack walks out looking almost ill.

It's not like he had much of a choice at that point; Sawyer pretty much screwed the whole thing up and left the marshall in even worse agony than before - and there's no way he was going to recover with a through-and-through in one of his lungs without a hospital and major surgery. You can argue the Hippocratic Oath all you like; but remember, Jack did his very best to abide by that oath until Sawyer put him in a position of either watching the guy die in a very brutal fashion over a period of hours, or ending it right there. Jack may be a doctor but he's also human, and clearly compassionate.

For confirmation, remember how Jack treated Kate when he learned that she was a wanted criminal. Very self-righteous, "I'm not a murderer!" (pretty obvious foreshadowing there; you knew what had to happen next). Then after he kills the marshal he reconciles with Kate seemingly out of the blue, justifying it by saying "we all died three days ago" and "everyone deserves a fresh start". He's talking about himself as much as Kate.

Can't very well go around holding people in contempt for criminal acts when you just committed a murder yourself, eh? No matter how necessary.

Max

[lost1]

just watched it again..

yous hear suffering and anguish and then it turns to muffled breathing

[Mac of the island]

I think that Jack killed him he had no other option. The look on his face after leaving the shelter said it all. Was I the only one thinking "dang it Bailey, what were you thinking? You can't just shoot someone in the lung!" Seriously though I think Fox is a very good actor I just haven't seen him in anything but P of 5.

[Beckers1]

Yeah, Jack did it. And i think, as a doctor, he's going to feel bad about it for sometime.
I think Sawyer really felt bad about his part too. You could tell he really thought he was putting the guy out of his misery -- but only made it worse. :o
Some soul searching going on there ... :(

[Rachiepachie2001]

I was wondering why others on the Island weren't freaking out with the Gunshot either. Maybe because it's something they were familiar with so it didn't really scare them, who knows, but I know I would've freaked out.

Cheers!

[Vicki]

i think he suffocated him, i myself thought of that during the episode (too much buffy maybe.) but if he really wanted to end the pain, i could think of much better ways than a gun (actually, i can only think of suffocation at the moment)

[JacksGirlfriend]

Jack did the only thing he could do and I think everyone's being a little rough on Sawyer. It was actually a very brave thing to do and despite the fact that he isn't the brightest in the bunch (always go for the head), he was not at all worried his action would further malign his character. He made a moral choice knowing the potential consequences. That's a heroic action and I think he was devastated when he saw he'd screwed it up. Sawyer has some growing up to do and though I think he's had a rough life and is going to have struggle hard to overcome whatever his "secret" is, I see lots of potential in him.

JacksGirl

[Mac of the island]

I agree with jacksgirl partially. Sawyer was right in what he did but I think he is the only person really grasping the circumstances they are in. It's about survival. He is going to need to learn that he will need other people to do so though. I have a hunch that he and Sayid will have a "bonding" ep later in the series.

[Uri the Sun Goddess]

Hey Mac, I guess you missed the handful of episodes of the show "Haunted". Matthew was wonderful in it. I hated that it got yanked. And for the record - I never saw any episode of Party of Five. He, Dom, and Ian are the reason I wanted to watch (plus, all the creepy stuff of course!) and now I've got Josh to watch too. WooHoo!

I'm with JG. Sawyer's got a lot of potential and I think he's the most real character on there. I love that he makes no excuses for himself.

Uri

[NCBBQ]

I think the Marshall choked on his own blood, and it happened more quickly than Jack thought it would.

[JacksGirlfriend]

A possibility, but that precludes personal angst. I'm sure the writers want to pile it on - that means Jack had to do it.

JacksGirl

[Mac of the island]

Party of five was good. I mock it out of love. Fox is the only reason I first watched the show because I liked his work on P of 5. I don't do much TV anymore but boy am I glad I checked out Lost. Is Haunted available anywhere? Premise of show?

[NeejaHalycon]

Yeah, Jack did it, although I'm guess he snapped his neck rather than strangled the guy.

I can't believe Sawyer didn't put the gun against the Marshal's head, though. I think that was just sloppy writing to force Jack into that situation. It would have been better to have Jack struggle with Sawyer to stop him from shooting the Marshal, only to have the gun go off and hit him in the chest. Sawyer wouldn't look like an idiot, then, and Jack would feel responsible for worsening the Marshal's condition.

[jprez98]

I like that Jack and Sawyer didn't fight about it. I think it perhaps shows some compasion on Sawyer's part, if you could call it that. Did you notice how he reacted when the marshal WASN'T dead?

-Jen

[maxpublic]

It was actually a very brave thing to do and despite the fact that he isn't the brightest in the bunch (always go for the head), he was not at all worried his action would further malign his character. He made a moral choice knowing the potential consequences.

I agree completely. The marshall wanted someone to do the deed, and neither Jack nor Kate (nor anyone else, it seems) was up to the job. Sawyer did what had to be done although he clearly wasn't happy about it (and even less so when he realized he'd botched it).

Sawyer may not be very bright, but between the polar bear and the mercy killing I think the writers have made it abundantly clear that he's one very brave individual who'll do what he thinks is the right thing regardless of personal risk or what others think about him.

I also noted that it seemed that the other survivors acted as if they wanted someone to go kill the marshall *even before the marshall asked for mercy*. Now, doing the deed when a person asks for it is one thing, but doing the deed prior to the request is just plain murder. Sawyer said it'd have to been done sooner or later, but he stated it as a fact and not as something that had to happen just so he wouldn't have to listen to the mans screams anymore.

I gotta say, by the end of ep 3 I found myself liking Sawyer quite a bit more than I did before ep 3. Of all the people on the show he's the one I'd most likely trust at my back in a firefight.

I can't believe Sawyer didn't put the gun against the Marshal's head, though. I think that was just sloppy writing to force Jack into that situation.

It was definitely a device on the part of the writers, but regardless of what we here on the board know most people have some pretty bizarre (and wrong) ideas about how the things in their world work. I don't find it that unlikely that Sawyer though a shot to the heart would be enough, nor that he didn't consider the idea of the bullet being deflected by a rib, or of missing the heart entirely.

When I was mulling over what I'd do I thought "why didn't he just take a knife and slice the carotid?" But then I realized that my solution was based on knowledge that the average person might not have; that the average person wouldn't even consider a knife because a gun is presented as being so much more deadly (and is, in most situations).

Sawyer probably doesn't have any real-world experience with handguns besides a few sessions at a firing range. He's working off of what he's seen on TV, i.e., a person gets shot in the chest and they're dead, pronto - unless they're the hero, in which case it usually takes around 20 or 30 rounds to put them down.

Max

[JacksGirlfriend]

A knife to the throat is far more personal than a gun shot because you have to be near enough to touch someone. That makes it very hard. A gun you can point, turn your face and pull the trigger. I would have sliced his throat, but it doesn't make a noise and for dramatic purposes we needed the noise to get reaction.

I'm just wondering how up close and personal Jack had to get. I suppose smothering would be the only way at that point unless someone had some very potent in their bag - something that would kill an otherwise healthy person. Any ideas? I know nothing (of course I don't) about medicine. Nitroglycerine? Would that kill a healthy person?

JacksGirl

[maxpublic]

A knife to the throat is far more personal than a gun shot because you have to be near enough to touch someone.

That's a good point, and one I didn't think of. If Sawyer's having a hard time as it is, using a knife to end the mans life may be beyond even his reserves of courage.

I'm just wondering how up close and personal Jack had to get.

Jack might've actually cut the man's throat. It makes more sense than strangulation or suffocation (both of which probably would've taken longer than what we saw onscreen).

Max

[gayboy2004]

There's absolutely no doubt that Jack did it. I didn't even think that there was any other way of interpreting that scene. Thoughout the episode Jack refused to kill the marshall because his ethics (and oath as a doctor) forbid it, but Sawyer's blunder gave him no other choice. So in the end, the person who was most against putting the marshall out of his misery was the person who ended up doing the deed himself. Oh the cruel irony...

[JacksGirlfriend]

I never actually thought about Jack slitting his throat. Have no idea why after I thought I'd do it myself. Yes, I'll go with that. He'd know exactly where to cut so it would be immediate and deadly, and fast.

I'm home sick today. What's your excuse for being online in the middle of the day?

JacksGirl

[maxpublic]

I'm home sick today. What's your excuse for being online in the middle of the day?

I'm a writer. I set my own hours. And this board is a wonderfully good excuse for avoiding work!

Max

[JacksGirlfriend]

I want to be a writer when I grow up (sigh). And I was doing a pretty damn good job of it until I found this board. But I still have to work... because (sigh again) I'm not published, though very determined to be.

But I'm guessing you must be published already (or extremely wealthy)... Care to share... just a hint.

JacksGirl

[jprez98]

I have no work to do today! I've been on the board since 8:00 this morning (it's almost 3:00 now).

I think that when Jack was sitting on the beach, before Kate came up to him, he was feeling very guilty about killing the marshal.

-Jen

[Abraxas]

I'd say Jack smothered him, because after the gunshot wound he wouldn't live again. And screw the codex or whatever. This doesn't apply where they are, anyway.

[maxpublic]

I watched the episode again earlier today. It's far too quick for smothering/suffocation. I think he must have cut the marshall's throat, or perhaps shoved a knife into his heart.

Max

[Abraxas]

Even in that state it takes so long to smother somebody?
Well...probably just "because" is a pretty good explanation, too.
Whatever. He definitely put him out of his misery. He's not going to return next episode. Please don't do that.

[Uri the Sun Goddess]

Wouldn't cutting his throat have gotten Jack bloody? Did anybody notice blood on his hands? I'm going to have to watch it again...

Uri

[dude21009]

Sawyer seems way too handy with a gun to have botched that "mercy killing". Just last week he dropped a charging polar bear in an area with very limited visibility (with all the tall grass). And he's saavy enough to salvage supplies from the plane. So I think he has some survivalist skills and it would unlikely for him to screw it up.

I get the feeling that Sawyer and Kate have a history.

[JacksGirlfriend]

I think you're confusing "history" with sexual tension. There's definitely that.

JacksGirl

[Abraxas]

There's a difference between killing an animal and killing a human. Especially if you don't really want to kill the human and you're nervous about it.
Why should Sawyer miss intentionally? To put hardship on Kate?
I don't think they know each other, btw.

[boobtuber]

I definitely think that Jack killed the marshall by strangling him. He definitely did. He had to, plus he doesn't have to worry about his license because he thinks he'll never "practice" medicine in the real world again, and ...he obviously knows he has some beef on Kate, right, so...he's a good one to put out of his misery....

[OneFoolOfATook]

okay, About Sawyer.....
I Think That He Took The Responsibility Of Mercy Killing The Marshal As A Way To Kinda Show He Knew What Had To Be Done And Did It (Was I Hallucinating When He Came Out Of The Tent Or Did He Have A Smug Look On His face?) But Then When He Heard The Marshal Still Alive His Face Just Fell! He Went Immdeniatly For His Cigerettes...Which He COuldn't Get Out (LOL) And Then Just Threw Them In His Anger At Himself. He Thought He Was Doing Something Noone Else Could And He Botched It. He Didn't Do It To End The Mans Suffering Or The Screaming, He Did It Because Noone Else Would. And He Screwed It Up Royaly.
As For The Writters Messing Up And Making Jack Kill The Guy And No Wrestiling-Of-The-Gun-Between-Them....Let Me Say There Is Nothing...NOTHING A Writter Loves More Then Torturing Their Characters, Just Driving Them Nuts And Breaking Them Down, Beating Them Into The Ground And Then Kicking Them In The Teeth....Because Then,....What Is There For Them To Overcome?
A Struggel Would Have Sucked And Been Lame, The Gun Going Off Would Have Been Ruled And Accident Between Jack And Sawyer.....They Would Eventualy Make Up....Now Jack And Sawyer Are Not Even Gonna Be Able To Look At each Other. Jack Is Now Deeply Hurt By What He Had To Do, It's Shaken His Soul....He Has To Deal With What He Was Forced To Do....It's Also Taken Sawyer Down A Peg Or Three From Where He Was.
I Thought It Was Excelently Written.

- - -

[Lothiriel of Rohan]

Short answer after everybody else answered is Jack did kill the Marshal after Sawyer botched the job. The death of the Marshal occurred too quickly after Jack told Sawyer it would take another 4-5 hours for him to die having only punctured his lung. Sawyer walked out of the tent and Jack was left with the Marshal alone. Shortly thereafter Jack walked out. So he did it IMHO.

[CatchFoundAlias]

It sure was nice to leave speculation that he did. I still think he should have come out and told sawyer to finish the job that would have made it even more sinister. Then you would know that every one that survived is gonna turn evil.

[KatesBoyfriend]

how uncanny is it that she looks like Jennifer Garner

Actually no. Jennifer Garner is ugly. Evangeline Lilly is absolutely gorgeous.

[feenie1010]

It's possible that Jack did put the Marshall out of his misery by suffocating him; Marshall seemed to be having a hard time breathing and placing an object in front of his mouth and nose might have been easier.

OR with a head trauma, surgery that wasn't all that successful, dehydration and possibly shock now add a punctured lung, without doing anything at all to alleviate the pain, Jack also sped up the demise.

[dsera]

Just saw this thread and thought I would put my $.02 in. I say Jack definitely smothered him. I turned the sound up all the way on that scene and you can hear the guy struggle for breath as if his mouth is being covered to smother him. Then the look on Jack's face when he comes out is a sure give away to me. Actually until I read this thread, I hadn't thought twice about it. I assumed it was a given that he had finished him off.

[azteclady]

dsera,

for many of us part of the fun is finding alternative (read: REALLY convoluted) explanations for things that are, in reality, simple :D

Welcome to the madness!


Beto
sinking ever deeper

[Abby Road]

You know...until I read the theories in this thread, I really hadn't considered our "hero" had killed him. Don't ask me what I thought but it just wasn't that. :) Yet, somehow it makes perfect sense now and I think the smothering theory sounds probable. There wouldn't be anymore trauma than necessary and no more noisy gunshots. Jack could have cupped his hand tightly around the Marshall's mouth and nose to form a seal and it probably wouldn't have taken long if he didn't struggle.

[tavella]

It strikes me that the difference between Jack's original refusal to euthanize the marshall and his final decision to do so is that in the first case, if rescue appears the marshall would have a chance to last long enough to get to the hospital. Yes, by that point Jack is already doubtful of rescue, but not sure, and you'd feel Really Stupid and Evil if you killed your patient and the next day a ship came by.

After the marshall had been shot, even if a ship appeared right that moment he wouldn't have lasted long enough to get to the hospital. So it was a choice of deaths, and Jack gave him the cleaner one.

[DOMesticatedSag]

I agree, smothered him. What a crappy way to go, especially after being shot by Sawyer.