Jacob = Ben's dad

[brinoceros5]

hi, this is my first post.

jacob is not locke. jacob is ben's father.

I've looked back at the profiles of Jacob, Ben, Locke and Ben's dad. Ben's dad and Jacob have the same exact dent in their noses. This is why Ben cares so much about what Locke heard him say, because he is his father.

[Des02]

when did you see Jacob? did i miss something?

[Reality]

when did you see Jacob? did i miss something?

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e360/Sporkguy/jacob.jpg

[jareeyore]

Can you get a screenshot of Ben's father for us? For comparison?

[Lost In KC]

I think you are right..It seems to be Bens dad but that makes NO sense.

[Des02]

wow i guess thats what i get for watching on my little tv lol i totally missed that thanx

[Billymays]

I think it's Jack's dad.

[lostboy]

Jacob looks like a he might have been a slave driver from the Black Rock. Look at his shirt and the long hair tied up in the back.

[icekoffee]

ben's father was in that sexy vw bus that hurley was rolling around in. Still strapped in the drivers seat with beer in the back..... Roger- Workman
http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/334572.jpg

[Jaypers]

I agree, looks like Christian Shepard from the side view!

[Lost In His Eyes]

Ben's dad died. lol They even found the corpse with the Roger Workman clothes. Sure, they could have switched the clothes with someone, but it seemed that Ben didn't even care to move him to have him buried.

[qwicmbl]

when did that shot take place? when Locke turned on the flashlight?

[brinoceros5]

http://lostpedia.com/images/4/46/AnaMeetsChristian.jpg


i dont see any dent in the nose of Christian Shephard

[icekoffee]

technology= flashlight

doesnt ben have a pacemaker or something? lol

[Jaypers]

Okay, In think I've got it.
Jacob is a ghost. A poltergeist. He is a pirate from the Black Rock ship.
That's why he doesn't like technololgy, and that's why he was wearing a fricking Pirates wardrobe!!!!!!

HA AH AH AAAA!!!!!!!!

[Jaypers]

brinoceros5 (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/member.php?u=20616) vbmenu_register("postmenu_1516533", true); can you overlay those two pics? the one of the doc, and the one of the ghost pirate, Jacob?
I want to see where they match up.

[brinoceros5]

Jacob is the ghost of Ben's dead father. This is why Ben is so intrigued with what Jacob said to Locke and even shoots Locke over it.

[Lost In His Eyes]

GHOSTS!

It certainly explains the whispers... ;)

[Kinmar]

Jacob Vanderfield, check out the widows peak

http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2924&d=1178768382

nvm Truff says all those LE photos were stock photos from a agency. oh well.

[Lost In His Eyes]

Who is that? Vanderfield?

[brinoceros5]

http://photos-397.ll.facebook.com/photos-ll-sf2p/v80/136/82/48800397/n48800397_30930014_4431.jpg

[McCutcheon's]

The man in the chair looks like someone new, like Chris Christofferson (spelling probably wrong (whistler from Blade)).

[gimmeabreak]

Ben's dad died. lol They even found the corpse with the Roger Workman clothes. Sure, they could have switched the clothes with someone, but it seemed that Ben didn't even care to move him to have him buried.

give me a break...

[gimmeabreak]

does anyone have an image of vanderfield's profile? until i see a clear nose indentation (like ben's dad), i'm not convinced.

[Farmer Ted]

Kind looks like Nick Nolte in the drunk tank if you ask me.

[Leinad]

I might be wrong but dont his cloth look pretty "classic"?
Maybe he is from the slave ship, maybe even an old english captain (an ancestor of Locke) and his soul is now somehow stuck on the island.
I mean the name "Jacob" would fit, a pretty classical one and Jacob Locke doesnt sound too wrong for a captain for that time frame.
Lets also not forget that Ben said he doesnt like technology...

[brinoceros5]

http://lostpedia.com/images/0/0f/3x20_roger_linus.jpg

doesnt Jacob look exactly like this guy? Roger Linus?

[lostchild]

lol this is too funny.

Jacob = Jacob

[RangerMel]

He looks like Uncle Rico.

[eBoyDog]

Well, it seems that there is a somewhat common concept that there are a lot of people just showing up to certain people on the island, Ben saw his dead mother, Jack saw his dad, Ecko saw his brother, Kate saw the horse..... I'm sure I'm missing some others.

There appears to be something that can create the manifestations of persons or objects to people on the island, it's very possible that Jacob does appear to been as his dad and as Ben has no pleasant feeling about his dad and he knows that whatever it is really isn't his dad so he calls "it" Jacob; Ben already stated that he saw and talked to his mother but his mother was dead so even as a young boy Ben recognized that while it appeared to his mom, it wasn't....

[eckert]

ive posted this in another thread, but it seems relevant.
http://www.havocfilms.com/lost/jacoblocke01.jpg

[PsychoFish]

The first person i thought of when i looked closely at Jacob was Roger "Work Man - Bens dad" Linus ... the hair... the face...

It's not Christian.. the nose is completely wrong. Roger although is still possible.

[fantasygeek317]

I've posted this before, but in the Bible, Jacob is Benjamins father.

[catnap]

Who is that? Vanderfield?

I want to know this too - who is Jacob Vanderfield???????????

[paralax]

I want to know this too - who is Jacob Vanderfield???????????

http://lostpedia.com/wiki/Jacob_Vanderfield

[Kylie]

Personally, it doesn't look like Jon Gries to me.

[lostdrewski]

I agree, looks like Christian Shepard from the side view!

I was hoping we would see Christian in that cabin, but that picture with the hair wouldn't make sense because Christian had shorter hair when he was in Australia.

I think it looks alot like Locke, meaning a twin or Locke himself.

[cargo177]

I know some people aren't that crazy about the Biblical references, however, i have to mention few facts because it relates to the bigger picture. I ran a search and couldn't find anything relating to it so i started a new thread.

In the Bible, Jacob is the father of the 12 tribes of Israel. His wife Rachel, which couldn't bear children for the first 20 years they were married, finally gave birth to Joseph who was sold by his brothers to the Egyptians. Jacob's Second son from Rachel and his youngest from all his wives was born on the road between Beteland and Efrat, , the place now know as Bethlehem. Guess what happened---- while giving birth on the side of the road, Rachel died.However, Jacob's son survived and was named----- Benjamin. Sounds Familiar?????

I am willing to bet that Ben was conceived on the island and Jacob is his real dad and not Roger. Jacob knew that Emily wouldn't survive the pregnancy and sent her back to the mainland. However he wanted to have his son, and the two people riding the convertible car on the road were there for a reason, they were there to make sure Jacob's son is alive. If you look again in the episode, right after the mom dies the two people are looking at each other like they expected that to happen. Now you ask.... the guy that brought Ben and his "FATHER" to the island was part of DHARMA so what connection he would have with Jacob? well i believe he was one of the natives and infiltrated DHARMA for many years. This is also the missing link i had with who gave the code to Ben to open the sonic fence. As a proof you can see that after the purge the only person Ben approaches is that same guy. I think the guy had a bigger role than what we know in the purge.

[catnap]

I like this idea although I have seen it around. It does explain a lot but if the guy that brought them to the island was really affiliated with the Hostiles then I don't think he would have been gassed. But Ben did go shut his eyes where as he didn't even want his father "Roger" buried. But if Jacob is not entirely human would that make Ben special in some way? And even if Jacob is the father I feel that Ben is keeping him prisoner somehow (ash circle, "help me") so my question (one of many!) is why???

[medre]

I know some people aren't that crazy about the Biblical references, however, i have to mention few facts because it relates to the bigger picture. I ran a search and couldn't find anything relating to it so i started a new thread.

In the Bible, Jacob is the father of the 12 tribes of Israel. His wife Rachel, which couldn't bear children for the first 20 years they were married, finally gave birth to Joseph who was sold by his brothers to the Egyptians. Jacob's Second son from Rachel and his youngest from all his wives was born on the road between Beteland and Efrat, , the place now know as Bethlehem. Guess what happened---- while giving birth on the side of the road, Rachel died.However, Jacob's son survived and was named----- Benjamin. Sounds Familiar?????

I am willing to bet that Ben was conceived on the island and Jacob is his real dad and not Roger. Jacob knew that Emily wouldn't survive the pregnancy and sent her back to the mainland. However he wanted to have his son, and the two people riding the convertible car on the road were there for a reason, they were there to make sure Jacob's son is alive. If you look again in the episode, right after the mom dies the two people are looking at each other like they expected that to happen. Now you ask.... the guy that brought Ben and his "FATHER" to the island was part of DHARMA so what connection he would have with Jacob? well i believe he was one of the natives and infiltrated DHARMA for many years. This is also the missing link i had with who gave the code to Ben to open the sonic fence. As a proof you can see that after the purge the only person Ben approaches is that same guy. I think the guy had a bigger role than what we know in the purge.

Interesting theory but there are a number of holes in it. The basic premise of it refutes everything that TBTB chose to show in the episode.

First of all, Roger and Emily are presented as a very close couple. so close that her death apparently drives Roger into alcoholism and resentment of his only son for "causing" her death. How likely is it that a young woman in the 1960's would have left her husband, gone to some island and gotten pregnant, gotten shipped back so she could go through her pregnancy with a husband that would know he wasn't with her 7 months ago when the baby would have been conceived? Not impossible but highly unlikely.

How long would the Goodspeed's have to drive up and down the highway in their red convertible, waiting for Roger to carry her out of the woods at the right moment? How would they have prevented some other car from stopping and helping? If they simnply wanted to make sure that Jacob's son was alive, wouldn't it be a lot simpler to find out who her obstetrician was and then see if the baby was okay at the hospital? We don't even know if the women dying before the second trimester ending was even happening then. Even if it was, I doubt they would know the exact moment that a woman would go into labor. Emily could have just as easily gone into labor the day before, the day after or many other days. Would they just be endlessly driving around, hoping that Emily would go into labor as they were passing by?

IMO, the look between the Goodspeed's when Emily passed was just a normal, omigod, the poor woman didn't make it look.

As for who gave Ben the code to the sonic fence, if you listen to the orientation video that's playing when Roger and Ben arrive, Dr. Candle clearly states that a new code will be given each morning so they can pas through the fence as necessary. The fence code was not a deep dark secret in "Dharmaville", everybody had access to it so ben having it proves nothing.

As for them showing Goodspeed's face after the purge, I mean who else would they show? What other adult face would the audience recognize? You state that Ben approaching him is some kind of "proof" of him having some role in the purge but I would say it's exactly the opposite. He'd likely be alive with a gas mask on if he was helping the hostiles with the purge. Ben told Locke that he was "one of" the people smart enough to avoid being in that pit. That implies that some other Dharma people helped with the purge but Goodspeed's dead body indicates that he wasn't one of them.

[cargo177]

Catnap - If you can find the link to the thread please post it here...
Now, regarding to the guy being Gassed... maybe that was part of his mission and that was ultimate goal. maybe he scarified himself to the cause of killing all the others, similar to the biblical story of Samson (Again, a biblical reference.)
The biblical story also match the fact that Richard seemed as if he's not aging, according to the Torah when Benjamin was born, his father Jacob was 90 and his grandfather Isaac (Jacob's dad) was around 150 years old. The fact that Jacob speaks only to Ben makes the assumption that Ben is his son even stronger.
Let me raise another assumption - John is actually Ben's Brother ( Joseph, according to the bible) that is sold to the Egyptians but comes back later on in life after his father think is dead. Both of the brothers (Ben and John) Kills the guys who they think are their fathers but actually Jacob is their Father. Another reference is that in the bible, Joseph was thrown by his brothers to the pit before he was sold, sounds familiar again???
I know it a little bit of a mess but im still trying to figure things out here...

[cargo177]

Interesting theory but there are a number of holes in it. The basic premise of it refutes everything that TBTB chose to show in the episode.

First of all, Roger and Emily are presented as a very close couple. so close that her death apparently drives Roger into alcoholism and resentment of his only son for "causing" her death. How likely is it that a young woman in the 1960's would have left her husband, gone to some island and gotten pregnant, gotten shipped back so she could go through her pregnancy with a husband that would know he wasn't with her 7 months ago when the baby would have been conceived? Not impossible but highly unlikely.

How long would the Goodspeed's have to drive up and down the highway in their red convertible, waiting for Roger to carry her out of the woods at the right moment? How would they have prevented some other car from stopping and helping? If they simnply wanted to make sure that Jacob's son was alive, wouldn't it be a lot simpler to find out who her obstetrician was and then see if the baby was okay at the hospital? We don't even know if the women dying before the second trimester ending was even happening then. Even if it was, I doubt they would know the exact moment that a woman would go into labor. Emily could have just as easily gone into labor the day before, the day after or many other days. Would they just be endlessly driving around, hoping that Emily would go into labor as they were passing by?

IMO, the look between the Goodspeed's when Emily passed was just a normal, omigod, the poor woman didn't make it look.

As for who gave Ben the code to the sonic fence, if you listen to the orientation video that's playing when Roger and Ben arrive, Dr. Candle clearly states that a new code will be given each morning so they can pas through the fence as necessary. The fence code was not a deep dark secret in "Dharmaville", everybody had access to it so ben having it proves nothing.

As for them showing Goodspeed's face after the purge, I mean who else would they show? What other adult face would the audience recognize? You state that Ben approaching him is some kind of "proof" of him having some role in the purge but I would say it's exactly the opposite. He'd likely be alive with a gas mask on if he was helping the hostiles with the purge. Ben told Locke that he was "one of" the people smart enough to avoid being in that pit. That implies that some other Dharma people helped with the purge but Goodspeed's dead body indicates that he wasn't one of them.

I'm aware that some of the assumptions can't be proven at this point, i can give you 10 different ways that Emily could be conceived by Jacob but that will be trying to guess how the writers would chose to make it happen. However the various similarities to the biblical story gives me a strong feeling that Jacob is actually Ben's dad.
Your second argument stated that those people would have to ride up and down the road until Emily delivers... well, we already know that Richard probably caused Juliet's ex-husband to ran-over by a bus so.... i guess they have the abilities

About the guy that died in the purge, i don't know if that was an accident or some part of the purge but that guy will def. have a role in the plot which will be exposed later on

[medre]

Catnap - If you can find the link to the thread please post it here...
Now, regarding to the guy being Gassed... maybe that was part of his mission and that was ultimate goal. maybe he scarified himself to the cause of killing all the others, similar to the biblical story of Samson (Again, a biblical reference.)
The biblical story also match the fact that Richard seemed as if he's not aging, according to the Torah when Benjamin was born, his father Jacob was 90 and his grandfather Isaac (Jacob's dad) was around 150 years old. The fact that Jacob speaks only to Ben makes the assumption that Ben is his son even stronger.
Let me raise another assumption - John is actually Ben's Brother ( Joseph, according to the bible) that is sold to the Egyptians but comes back later on in life after his father think is dead. Both of the brothers (Ben and John) Kills the guys who they think are their fathers but actually Jacob is their Father. Another reference is that in the bible, Joseph was thrown by his brothers to the pit before he was sold, sounds familiar again???
I know it a little bit of a mess but im still trying to figure things out here...

Sounds like you're still grasping here. Goodspeed getting gassed as part of his mission makes no sense other than you trying to force it to fit the story of Sampson. What would be the point? Sacrifice for no good reason makes no logical sense. he could have put on a mask just like everyone else. The sensible "assumption" is that he wasn't part of the plot. Period.

And Richard not aging in no way fits in with Jacob being 90 and Isaac being 150. The bible says that how old they were, it NEVER says they didn't age or show the appearance of age. Again, that's a stretch you are making in order to force your theory to fit the known "facts".

And so now, John is Ben's brother? What evidence is it that Cooper is NOT Locke's father? Even though he's a con man, he did acknowledge paternity of Locke as did Locke's mother. Locke was a match for donating him a kidney. Locke knows who his mother is and it wasn't Ben's mother Emily so they are not brothers, plain and simple.

[catnap]

Catnap - If you can find the link to the thread please post it here...
...

Here it is http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35078

It is in the What I think is going on forum with the thread title "Check out the Dharma School kids". It talks about the 12 tribes, etc. I think there are too many similarities to this Bible story for it to be coincidence.

[cargo177]

Sounds like you're still grasping here. Goodspeed getting gassed as part of his mission makes no sense other than you trying to force it to fit the story of Sampson. What would be the point? Sacrifice for no good reason makes no logical sense. he could have put on a mask just like everyone else. The sensible "assumption" is that he wasn't part of the plot. Period.

And Richard not aging in no way fits in with Jacob being 90 and Isaac being 150. The bible says that how old they were, it NEVER says they didn't age or show the appearance of age. Again, that's a stretch you are making in order to force your theory to fit the known "facts".

And so now, John is Ben's brother? What evidence is it that Cooper is NOT Locke's father? Even though he's a con man, he did acknowledge paternity of Locke as did Locke's mother. Locke was a match for donating him a kidney. Locke knows who his mother is and it wasn't Ben's mother Emily so they are not brothers, plain and simple.

Ok medre... Lets not allow it to get too complex here.... for a start, do you agree that the biblical story Benjamin's birth has more than one parallel in the birth of Ben in the show ( the birth on the side of the road, the Names, the fact that the mother died while giving birth) It doesn't really get more obvious than that... if you agree to this than we have to extract the the meanings... if Ben is Parallel to Benjamin in the bible therefore Roger has to Be biblical Jacob, but that doesn't make any sense because Roger treats him bad until Ben kills him. In the biblical story Benjamin's father, Jacob, favors his youngest son Benjamin more than any of his brothers besides Joseph which he believed was killed by a wild beast. The plot in the show, was too similar to the biblical story for not meaning anything and im not even talking about the names. Can you give me at least that?

[cargo177]

Here it is http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35078

It is in the What I think is going on forum with the thread title "Check out the Dharma School kids". It talks about the 12 tribes, etc. I think there are too many similarities to this Bible story for it to be coincidence.


Same here, way too many similarities... i didn't build my theory yet.. but this is diffidently my framework for it

[medre]

Ok medre... Lets not allow it to get too complex here.... for a start, do you agree that the biblical story Benjamin's birth has more than one parallel in the birth of Ben in the show ( the birth on the side of the road, the Names, the fact that the mother died while giving birth) It doesn't really get more obvious than that... if you agree to this than we have to extract the the meanings... if Ben is Parallel to Benjamin in the bible therefore Roger has to Be biblical Jacob, but that doesn't make any sense because Roger treats him bad until Ben kills him. In the biblical story Benjamin's father, Jacob, favors his youngest son Benjamin more than any of his brothers besides Joseph which he believed was killed by a wild beast. The plot in the show, was too similar to the biblical story for not meaning anything and im not even talking about the names. Can you give me at least that?

Sure, I can agree that the plot and the bibical story have some parallels. I just think that the conclusions you are reaching in trying to make it fit the parallels are not logically supportable or supportable by the facts in the show. I'd like for you to address my specific points made earlier if you'd care to. I'm not trying to be harsh, I just think that perhaps the bibical story was used as some general outline but these writers are too clever for things to fall exactly as they did in the bible. Using something as an inspiration is one thing. Having a new story follow the same details as the inspiration would be a cop out. That would be kind of like having a new tv show follow the exact same plot as the Fugitive but have the Richard Kimble character be a gambler instead of a doctor and he's accused of killing his gay lover instead of his wife.

[cargo177]

Sure, I can agree that the plot and the bibical story have some parallels. I just think that the conclusions you are reaching in trying to make it fit the parallels are not logically supportable or supportable by the facts in the show. I'd like for you to address my specific points made earlier if you'd care to. I'm not trying to be harsh, I just think that perhaps the bibical story was used as some general outline but these writers are too clever for things to fall exactly as they did in the bible. Using something as an inspiration is one thing. Having a new story follow the same details as the inspiration would be a cop out. That would be kind of like having a new tv show follow the exact same plot as the Fugitive but have the Richard Kimble character be a gambler instead of a doctor and he's accused of killing his gay lover instead of his wife.

lol loved the example. I agree with you, the writers are way too smart to follow exactly the biblical story. I'm just taking this as a frame story, that because of a lack of information, im using as a structure to try and build a theory. As for the point you raised before:
Goodspeed's death - I cannot explain the reason of his death beside the fact that he was there when Ben born and he was the one that brought him to the island. Now, the fact is that Ben is special, he can see Jacob while the rest of us see an empty chair (at least for most of the scene) from that i can conclude that he has a special connection to Jacob that the others do not have. whether or not Ben is Jacob's son, the man who brought him there serves a very specific and important purpose and was probably sent by someone to do so. In my opinion the story of why it happened will unfold later on.
Ageless Richard - i understand what you are saying that the indifference in Richard's looks doesn't necessarily means that he's been living there for over hundreds of years. However, if you remember when Ben talks to Richard about his Birthday he asks him : You still remember what birthdays are? right Richard? Which implies Richard might have been around for so many years it doesn't really means anything to him.
John - that might be a long shot, but how come John was the only one Ben ever took to see Jacob ( at least as far as we know) Maybe because Ben knows about John relation to Jacob as well. that's without mentioning both of their mom's name was Emily do you think that's just a coincidence? like you said, i think the Writers are too clever for that. If to take it back to the biblical story for a sec. Benjamin's brother Joseph was thrown to the pit by his brothers in hope that he would die before one of them took him out and sold it to the egyptians. John has been thrown the first time by his "father" and survived and now he's been thrown again by Ben (which my guess is that he's brother) As for Cooper not being is real father, i can't prove it yet but to donate a kidney you dont have to be a family of a first degree.
i would like to hear your remarks on these points

[medre]

[/color]

lol loved the example. I agree with you, the writers are way too smart to follow exactly the biblical story. I'm just taking this as a frame story, that because of a lack of information, im using as a structure to try and build a theory. As for the point you raised before:
Goodspeed's death - I cannot explain the reason of his death beside the fact that he was there when Ben born and he was the one that brought him to the island. Now, the fact is that Ben is special, he can see Jacob while the rest of us see an empty chair (at least for most of the scene) from that i can conclude that he has a special connection to Jacob that the others do not have. whether or not Ben is Jacob's son, the man who brought him there serves a very specific and important purpose and was probably sent by someone to do so. In my opinion the story of why it happened will unfold later on.
Ageless Richard - i understand what you are saying that the indifference in Richard's looks doesn't necessarily means that he's been living there for over hundreds of years. However, if you remember when Ben talks to Richard about his Birthday he asks him : You still remember what birthdays are? right Richard? Which implies Richard might have been around for so many years it doesn't really means anything to him.
John - that might be a long shot, but how come John was the only one Ben ever took to see Jacob ( at least as far as we know) Maybe because Ben knows about John relation to Jacob as well. that's without mentioning both of their mom's name was Emily do you think that's just a coincidence? like you said, i think the Writers are too clever for that. If to take it back to the biblical story for a sec. Benjamin's brother Joseph was thrown to the pit by his brothers in hope that he would die before one of them took him out and sold it to the egyptians. John has been thrown the first time by his "father" and survived and now he's been thrown again by Ben (which my guess is that he's brother) As for Cooper not being is real father, i can't prove it yet but to donate a kidney you dont have to be a family of a first degree.
i would like to hear your remarks on these points

Your point about ageless Richard and the Ben's birthday reference make sense. It may implying that he's ageless or that birthdays have no meaning. Since the dialog is written by writers, it can definitely have some hidden meaning.

With Locke and Anthony Cooper, I'll still stick with him being Locke's real father. It's true that you don't have to be "family of a first degree" as you put it but the fact remains that Locke's mother said Cooper was his father and Cooper apparently believed he was Locke's father. He wouldn't have conned tried to con Locke out of his kidney unless he had good reason to think Locke was a compatible donor. Even before Sawyer killed him he was still acknowledging Locke as his son. He already thought he was in hell so there wouldn't have been any reason for him to lie at that point.

It's entirely possible that Ben took Locke to see Jacob because he knew of a special relationship. It could also be because Locke backed him into a corner where he couldn't turn him down without losing face in front of his people. Once Locke marched in with his father's body, Ben was caught in a predicament he didn't expect.

Please understand that I am not saying your theory is incorrect. It may very well be 100% right and time will tell. Neither one of us write the show, we're just fans with opinions that may or may not be correct. I'm just saying that IMO, the facts that we have make it easy to refute various portions of your theory.

[cargo177]

Your point about ageless Richard and the Ben's birthday reference make sense. It may implying that he's ageless or that birthdays have no meaning. Since the dialog is written by writers, it can definitely have some hidden meaning.

With Locke and Anthony Cooper, I'll still stick with him being Locke's real father. It's true that you don't have to be "family of a first degree" as you put it but the fact remains that Locke's mother said Cooper was his father and Cooper apparently believed he was Locke's father. He wouldn't have conned tried to con Locke out of his kidney unless he had good reason to think Locke was a compatible donor. Even before Sawyer killed him he was still acknowledging Locke as his son. He already thought he was in hell so there wouldn't have been any reason for him to lie at that point.

It's entirely possible that Ben took Locke to see Jacob because he knew of a special relationship. It could also be because Locke backed him into a corner where he couldn't turn him down without losing face in front of his people. Once Locke marched in with his father's body, Ben was caught in a predicament he didn't expect.

Please understand that I am not saying your theory is incorrect. It may very well be 100% right and time will tell. Neither one of us write the show, we're just fans with opinions that may or may not be correct. I'm just saying that IMO, the facts that we have make it easy to refute various portions of your theory.

I totally understand where you are coming from, it is human nature that cause us to doubt and look for answers and i appreciate the fact that you are challenging me with your arguments.
You are right with what you are saying about cooper, he had no reason to lie when he thought he was already dead. The thing is we can call something that is being is said a lie only if the person who said it is aware that what he is saying isn't true. What i'm getting at is that Cooper didn't necessarily know that John wasn't his son. Maybe, just maybe ,the con man himself got conned by John's mom to think that way. The same way Ben's dad could have been conned to think the same thing about his newborn son. The parallels between their stories, including the fact that their moms had the same name (and we know that in this show names are deliberately chosen) make me belief that both Ben and john has very special relationship with Jacob and possibly between themselves. But as you said, it's all guessing...
By the way... English is not my first Language (which you probably noticed by now) and sometimes my brain translate things the way i know them and it sounds weird but you know what i meant by "family of a first degree" right? :)

[Crow T. Robot]

Is Jacob Ben's real father? Uh... no.

He's Ben's son and Vincent in Ben's Mom reincarnated and Sayid is really Jack's brother from when Christian Shepherd was an arms dealer in Iraq during the late 60's.

Gotta love these threads.

[RangerMel]

Is Jacob Ben's real father? Uh... no.

He's Ben's son and Vincent in Ben's Mom reincarnated and Sayid is really Jack's brother from when Christian Shepherd was an arms dealer in Iraq during the late 60's.


Dude! That's totally what i was going to post! 'Cept you forgot that Claire isn't really Jack's siter, but is a transgendered clone that Juliet helped to get pregnant.