Jacob: The man who wasn't there.

[Lyonyssa]

It's late and I know I should be in bed, but I wanted to post this before finally retiring for the night. Could the reason we (and Locke) couldn't see Jacob be, because he is out of phase? If he is the island's oldest living inhabitant, perhaps the prolonged exposure to the electro-magnetic waves have had an unusual side-effect?

We've seen Desmond being propelled backwards in time during the fail-safe protocol and have hypothosized that it was due to the electro-magnetic build up that occured, so it's not too far of a stretch to suppose that a prolonged exposure to the waves might cause someone to become just out of phase enough to seem invisible. Calling out to Locke for help because he is caught perpetually being a few minutes ahead (or behind) everyone else in the time stream and unable to put things right again without assistance. For all we know, it may have been an experiment gone awry that resulted in his being out of phase.

If that is the case, we can take it one step further in assuming that Jacob might want the help of Ben and his people, but Ben has his own agenda and Jacob's problem is not high on his list of priorities, so he's been playing Jacob and enjoying the status afforded him because he is the only one who can communicate with Jacob.

[CLUCK]

my thoughts on jacob is:

ben has multiple personalities (m p), and jacob is one of them.

the whole wind blowing, things breaking, etc was because ben is "special" like walt was.

ben is also a certified nutjob.


i think that the rest of the others all sat around because they know there is no jacob and that ben is nuts... but they also know ben has m p and jacob is one of his alter egos.


IF ben has m p he wouldnt really know what he was doing in situations like that... and to him he was having a conversation with a real person.

himself.

[Juliette]

at first, i thought jaco was bens imaginary friend :)

[SuperOrange]

at first, i thought jaco was bens imaginary friend :)


I was laughing myself silly though the episode... since Ben said, "Richard doesn't talk to Jacob, I talk to him. No one else talks to him." All crazy like. Hahahaha...... Ben's been on that island faaaar too long...
I can't wait for the podcast so they can tell us what the hell was up with Jacob.

[SamHayden]

The whole thing was a set up, conversations with imaginary people or other personalities indicates schizophrenia. Multiple Personalities or DID (Disociative Identity Disorder). Sufferers of DID don't usually have conversations with their other selves although they do sometimes hear their voices asking to come out (in their own words). I'm not an expert but from some of the stuff I've read and studied indicates that in fact Ben has not got DID. The reason I say this is because the Ben flaskbacks show no history of abuse from his parents. Usually people with DID have suffered abuse both physical and sexual from their childhood. The way the brain copes is to deny it ever happened and place all of the memories into a seperate consciousness, the brain creates an alter ego so as not to face the abuse. This means that those with DID do not usually recall ever being abused. It also means that the alter ego has self awareness and they think of themselves as looking like themselves, they don't usually project themselves to be a seperate entity like Ben did with Jacob.

I don't think Ben has DID but he might have schizophrenia, his mind may be struggling to cope with the guilt he felt at allowing all of the people to die from the Dharma Initiative.

[RicoSlim]

you guys are forgeting that they showed a real person on the seat at the end of all that craziness, go and look back on your DVR, looks like Jesus or Locke with a bad wig in my opinion

[iluvjack]

http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=34835 I tried

[iluvjack]

you guys are forgeting that they showed a real person on the seat at the end of all that craziness, go and look back on your DVR, looks like Jesus or Locke with a bad wig in my opinion


that doesn't mean ANYTHING it was a product of Ben's mind for us to see

[Spybinder]

I felt there was too long of a gap from the time young Ben first met Alpert in the Jungle and when older Ben gased his father and Dharma. What did Ben learn/see during this time?

Questions I have...
1) Why is Ben special to Jacob? Is Jacob Wilson???? (you know, Castaway)
2) Is Ben just a pawn for Alpert and the Hostiles?
3) Did all of the Dharma people die from the gas?
4) Wouldn't there be Dharma survivors at the Flame, Swan, Pearl, Hydra, etc... Radinski, Kelvin, etc...???
5) What was the purpose of the numbers and the Swan? Will we find out this season?
6) Why was it necessary for Cooper to die before Ben would take Locke to see Jacob?
7) Is Smokey playing games with everyone? Is everything just manifestations gone wild???

HEL
.
.
.
P.............

[Aquaman]

the idea of ben creating an alternative personality is not too far off, but what you all are saying on this thread is not entirely accurate. i am a counselor and in my years working towards this title, i found myself working people who have schizophrenia (in varying degrees). people with schizophrenia can create their alternative realites as result of a life-changing emotional incident (rape, witnessing death, being the victim of physical or emotional violence, etc). the one distinction is that these people do NOT manifest their alternate personalities. i know we are on a special island and anything is possilbe, but i feel it is unlikely that ben has created this person as a result of his stressful and personally damaging childhood.
samhayden - agree with your post and disgree too. ben did have a lot of events in his childhood that might explain a dissociative personality. if you heard your dad tell you, on your birthday, while drunk of his a##, you killed your mom and ruined my life - you might grow up to kill bunnies too.
this is an intersting thread but two facts remain constant: there is a person in the chair (jacob) and ben can talk to and confront this person whenever he wants to.
most people live with MPD do not know of their alternate personalities and are not able to channel them. they surface as a result of an incident that reminds them of a traumatic event.

[DharmaUdonNoodles]

that doesn't mean ANYTHING it was a product of Ben's mind for us to see

and BEN is the one with Schizophrenia? ;)

[Aquaman]

spybinder - here is my attempt to answer the questions you posed:
1) i feel this is what the writers want you to believe - adds more intrigue to the person that is/might be jacob
2) i totally agree that it is possible ben is the suspected leader, but really a puppet in a bigger scheme that is headed by richard (longer period of time with the hostiles) and his people
3) i think we are to assume all of the DI are dead, but this means that the hostiles had this planned for a long time (had to find every member, etc) and this may have been ben's test to become one of them
4) good point - the DI did not merely occupy the barracks where saw all the gassed bodies, they could have been all over the island. i assume kelvin was not there yet, but we all assume he had prececessors.
5) another good question - i assume there has to be a great significance to these numbers aside from the link they have to hurley's past. for god's sake the writers spent over a season referring to these numbers (danielle, hurley, des, etc). hopefully, if there is an explanation the writers do as good a job connecting this answer in a manner similar to the way they connect verything else.
6) this is obvioulsy a deed everyone has to overcome - however, i question this too becuase i doubt the stewardess who seems to be welcomed/accepted by ben's camp, would off her dad. these "good people" find interesting way to manage their anger and emotional baggage.
7) smokey, imo, is the biggest most unexplained conundrum on the show. it is unlikely we will get a smokey flashback any time soon, but we will need to learn more about it to understand how it fits into the grand scheme of things.

hope this helps - great questions and good thread.

[Kinmar]

that doesn't mean ANYTHING it was a product of Ben's mind for us to see

Your forgetting that our vantage point during that scene was from Locke's perspective not Ben's.

[Tubby]

that doesn't mean ANYTHING it was a product of Ben's mind for us to see


Kinmar beat me to it, but I was also going to say it was through Johns rather than Bens eyes we were seeing that character.

The reason Ben shot John was he was threatned by the fact John heard Jacobs' voice when he clearly did not, meaning John is probably more "special" than Ben, a potential threat/future leader material.

The Jurys still out, but I feel Ben understands Jacobs presence is real, but hasnt been able to tune in so has been faking being able to hear him, no witnesses to this before John, and is genuinely taken aback that John can actually hear Jacobs voice.

[misty nichole]

my thoughts on jacob is:

ben has multiple personalities (m p), and jacob is one of them.

the whole wind blowing, things breaking, etc was because ben is "special" like walt was.

ben is also a certified nutjob
I agree, and this was my first impression on what was happening, but how do you explain that man in the chair when the flashlight was turned on?
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a43/pattylarrimore/09.jpg
I also think that the sand or ash in the perimeter outside of where Jacob lives, was interesting....was it there to keep something out or keep something in, or
was it something else all together?