Who's Jacob? C'mon, you have to notice...

[rubysareduhbomb]

Here is what I picked up on the last episode.

The flashbacks.

They were there to explain two things:

#1. Why Ben saw Locke killing his father the only way to 'set things right' or whatever he said, because Ben himself killed his father, and it did seem to set things right in his mind

#2. That Ben joined up with the natives.

The key is the natives. I believe Jacob is one of the natives Ben met when the whole Dharma thing happened, and that's why he's so powerful to Ben. Ben killed his own father, and all of his people because he sided with the Natives; however, he did spare some of his people, probably the ones who also cooperated with the natives. So the whole idea here is that Jacob is the leader of the natives, or a native that is important to Ben. The list has not been explained up to this point.


The screencaps that are being shown of Jacob are consistant to the person Ben met in the woods when he was a child--I don't know if this person has a name or has been identified, but chances are, if this person has not, this is Jacob.

[misty nichole]

The person he met in the woods as a child.
Are you speaking of our ageless Richard.

[rubysareduhbomb]

The person he met in the woods as a child.
Are you speaking of our ageless Richard.

I believe so.

But if he has no tribal connections, then no. I am missing something. When was Richard introduced? It seems like I've never heard of him before- and trust me, I am a quite frequent watcher of lost. I must have missed this.

Who is Richard?

[Roger WorkMan]

do a search for Richard Alpert

[LostIsTony]

Richard Alpert. He's had quite a big role so far.
1. Recruited Juliet
2. Ben's go to guy.
3. Filmed Juliet's sister and child in the park in Miami
4. Gay Locke Sawyer's red folder on the hill.
There's more but I gotta go

[JINANDJUICE]

I believe so.

But if he has no tribal connections, then no. I am missing something. When was Richard introduced? It seems like I've never heard of him before- and trust me, I am a quite frequent watcher of lost. I must have missed this.

Who is Richard?

he's been around a little while: he was the one who recruited Juliette posing as someone from mittelos bio, he was the one around when locke saw his dad on the island for the first time - tied up and gagged, and he was the one who gave locke the file on our Sawyer (James Ford). he's been playin a role or two here and there this season.

[JINANDJUICE]

beat me to a couple tony.

[takezo]

Yeah the dude in the jungle was Mr Mascara with Sawyer hair.

[Sawyersgrl]

Maybe they're Ancient Egyptians..........hence the eyeliner.:rolleyez:

Dude, it's better than some of the "theories" I've seen around here, lol

[rubysareduhbomb]

It's possible that it is so;

But what I mean is, whoever Jacob is, he was part of the tribe or native and that's why he's so important to Ben. That's what's with the list. That is why it seems like Jacob is Ben's boss, because Jacob was the one who put these ideas in his head when he was little.

Jacob is why he killed his father and the other people.
Jacob is why...

And Jacob is part of the native tribe- he's old, and because he's a native that is why he doesn't like technology. As a native, he didn't like Dharma because of their technology.

Either Jacob is the leader of the natives, or just one of the natives who specifically came out to Ben and made an impact on Ben's life. That is my theory.

I'm sure somehow you can put a twist on it to how Richard is a native, how Richard is Jacob. But, coming that I don't know Richie here so well, I'm not going to branch out on that theory. It's just what bugs me with the Richard thing is that it really doesn't tie into my theory, and also, in the dark screenshot, he looks a lot older. Like..old. It might be the bad lighting, but I stand to my theory and am not turning this into another Richard is Jacob thread.

[CENSORED]

Jacob is too powerful and scares Ben too much to just be a native....just my thought.

[rubysareduhbomb]

Jacob is too powerful and scares Ben too much to just be a native....just my thought.

Well, I think that the fact that they met when he was only a boy means that they had been planning the sabatoge for a while. It was not an impulse thing, just because he got fed up with his dad or something- he had been planning it for years.

To know someone who wants to 'help you' from that period of time makes an impact on you. In this episode, I believe that Ben was acting like a little boy a bit, and so, you can see that it has some connection.


He said something along the lines of "One of us had to go" which was meaning

Natives or Dharma

Why would he get rid of Dharma if he liked Dharma? He didn't like Dharma. He hated it. He planned with Jacob the whole thing and that is why he fears Jacob, because Jacob is like his father. I also thing there are some things we are missing. There will be more flashbacks on this if my hunch is correct. Just like when Juliet was introduced, it took a couple of episodes to really find out why she was there.

[CENSORED]

I can't see this as a two man vision....this was what the "natives" wanted. The Dharma people had a security system to protect them from them. This was a plan of the natives from the very beginning. They just needed someone to help them....who better than a little boy who is so upset that he will do anything to get away from there...even if that takes him staying there for quite a few years.

Ben was a major part, but it was the plan of the "natives"

[rubysareduhbomb]

I can't see this as a two man vision....this was what the "natives" wanted. The Dharma people had a security system to protect them from them. This was a plan of the natives from the very beginning. They just needed someone to help them....who better than a little boy who is so upset that he will do anything to get away from there...even if that takes him staying there for quite a few years.

Ben was a major part, but it was the plan of the "natives"


Yes, yes, yes, you are absolutely right. That was the big plan. But in a way, I think Ben was benifited by it too because of getting rid of his father. And that's how the natives got him into the little plan.

[CENSORED]

So then how does it happen that this clan of "natives" who use this boy to be the huge part of their plan suddenly fear him to the point that only Ben knows who Jacob is? How is it that none of the others have had the chance to "see" him?

[rubysareduhbomb]

So then how does it happen that this clan of "natives" who use this boy to be the huge part of their plan suddenly fear him to the point that only Ben knows who Jacob is? How is it that none of the others have had the chance to "see" him?

Because I believe, 1st off all, there is something we are not knowing about Jacob- will be revealed later in a flashback, and 2nt of all,

and the people who were with Ben, If I am not mistaking, were orignally part of Dharma. For some reason Ben spared them all- and that's probably why they all respect him as the leader. Because he forewarned this death that was going to occur to these people for some reason, and for some reason these people believed him. They've been following him for a long time now, and not knowing who this infamous 'Jacob' is. I don't think Ben's Party knows any more about Jacob then Locke originally did.

[CENSORED]

I think that they do know a ton about Jacob....but Ben has a reason to hide it from them....and an ability to do so. Did you see how they didn't jump to help when Locke kicked eyepatch man's @ss? They didn't sit and ask "Who the heck is this Jacob?"....they now that Locke was going to find something out...they just were too afraid.

[takezo]

So then how does it happen that this clan of "natives" who use this boy to be the huge part of their plan suddenly fear him to the point that only Ben knows who Jacob is? How is it that none of the others have had the chance to "see" him?

Maybe Ben's HAVIDs at a young age? He could also have usurped control of the natives.

[KatesBoyfriend]

For those missing the obvious Biblical connection, Jacob was the father of Benjamin. Benjamin's mother was Rachel who died giving birth to Benjamin. (As an aside, Benjamin was the brother of Joseph, of the coat of many colors fame)

[CENSORED]

and the people who were with Ben, If I am not mistaking, were orignally part of Dharma. For some reason Ben spared them all-

But this would be true if Ben was the sole person behind it (or one of two as you see it)....I still think it was a group effort, with Ben being a huge part of it, but not the person behind it.

[CENSORED]

For those missing the obvious Biblical connection, Jacob was the father of Benjamin. Benjamin's mother was Rachel who died giving birth to Benjamin. (As an aside, Benjamin was the brother of Joseph, of the coat of many colors fame)

I do know this...but Ben's dad is dead. And his name was Roger. If this was even the "ghost" (hate that expression) of is father, why a different name?

[takezo]

I don't think it's a ghost at all. I think whatever Jacob is, he has been on the island for a very long time.

[Other]

Am I the only one that think that the others(hostiles) were pleased when Ben said he could see his mother. Now he is also the only one that can see Jacob. He is special. I think Ben and Locke share the same mother and locke can see Jacob as well. He just has to believe. The other have been trying to see Jacob for a long time then they found ben and he can see him therefor the rest now see him as this special leader.

My 2 cents

[carol2661]

[quote=rubysareduhbomb;1521136 Ben killed his own father, and all of his people because he sided with the Natives; however, he did spare some of his people, probably the ones who also cooperated with the natives. [/quote]

I saw no evidence that he spared ANY Dharma people. All of them looked pretty dead to me.

My guess is that the concept of breaking away from all your past life was a part of the step taken to being a part of the new group. It's not just a Ben-thing.

When Richard was talking to Locke up on the hill, he was more gentle about it, but he still said that Locke's dad had to go. Now we know that Richard has been around a VERY long time and probably told Ben to do the same thing as part of his transition to Hostile-hood.

[CENSORED]

Am I the only one that think that the others(hostiles) were pleased when Ben said he could see his mother. Now he is also the only one that can see Jacob. He is special. I think Ben and Locke share the same mother and locke can see Jacob as well. He just has to believe. The other have been trying to see Jacob for a long time then they found ben and he can see him therefor the rest now see him as this special leader.

My 2 cents

Hey, that may be why it seems that Ben was so jealous that Locke heard Jacob! Good point Other!

I saw no evidence that he spared ANY Dharma people. All of them looked pretty dead to me.

My guess is that the concept of breaking away from all your past life was a part of the step taken to being a part of the new group. It's not just a Ben-thing.

When Richard was talking to Locke up on the hill, he was more gentle about it, but he still said that Locke's dad had to go. Now we know that Richard has been around a VERY long time and probably told Ben to do the same thing as part of his transition to Hostile-hood.

Bingo! I agree 100%

[Ein Stein]

I'm just gonna ask this here to avoid making another Jacob thread:

What the hell is this "hole in Jacob's head" everyone is talking about? All I see is curly hair.

[rubysareduhbomb]

I'm just gonna ask this here to avoid making another Jacob thread:

What the hell is this "hole in Jacob's head" everyone is talking about? All I see is curly hair.

There is a patch in which there is inconsistancy of hair, which people this is a hole- I say it's just curly hair too- in a sloppy mess.

[Mari2006]

I'm just gonna ask this here to avoid making another Jacob thread:

What the hell is this "hole in Jacob's head" everyone is talking about? All I see is curly hair.


Can we get the screencap of this??

[Mari2006]

found it!!!

http://lost.cubit.net/forum/gallery/1_09_05_07_10_43_58.jpg (http://lost.cubit.net/forum/gallery/1_09_05_07_10_43_58.jpg)

[hopelessly lost]

This may have been already been pointed out and I apologize if it has been, but did anyone notice that when young Ben first encountered ageless Richard, that he knew Ben's name with out Ben telling him?? How would he know this without being told, especially since he is perceived as a hostile... Why was Ben singled out and not Annie per se. I'm convinced that Richard is the devil's advocate... perhaps the smokey monster advocate or some other evil entity from the island?? His purpose is to make sure the dirty deeds get done. He definitely has an ulterior motive in all this. He is going to prove that he has more importance than we can imagine.

[TheCFiles1]

Just wanted to put my 2c in....

I appreciate the backstory episodes because obviously they are very important to advancing the plot and giving us a larger picture of the situation and characters, and answering questions.

But I would prefer they use some kind of backstory/current plot format, rather than devoting entire episodes almost exclusively to flashbacks. Last night was interesting about the Dharma Others/ Hostiles, Jacob etc. and Ben's history on the Island.

But just as with Desmond's flashback episode-I felt it was just too much of the entire episode. Time to go back to the beach people!

I prefer episodes where they combine a nice balance of backstory and current plot. We need more time on the beach in real time; the main problem with the show in the beginning of this season was too much time on the second Island and not enough plot on the beach with the regulars.

I get tired of these episodes which are about 90% backstory. They don't connect us with the current plot enough in my opinion.

[dbankier]

This may have been already been pointed out and I apologize if it has been, but did anyone notice that when young Ben first encountered ageless Richard, that he knew Ben's name with out Ben telling him??

I've just watched the scene again, and Richard asks him for his name and Ben tells him.

RICHARD: What's your name?
BEN: Ben.
RICHARD: Ben, do you want to tell me what you're doing in the middle of the jungle all by yourself?

[arkol]

The screencap, It's Lock. By the way: In the Bible; Sons of Jacob are Benjamen and Joseph. Benjamen kills his brother Joesph (Lock?) and leaves him in the ditch for dead. But he doesn't die. He becomes a bigwig in Egypt. Maybe lock hears Jacob because he is Ben's brother. Maybe Lock resembles Jacob because he is his son.

[CFiles42]

What I don't get is how the Hostiles managed to kill all those Others. They were outside, and even if they had somehow discharged a fatal nerve gas (which was the implication as they were all wearing gas masks) it would be hard for it to be effective given the outdoors and how it dissipates. They wouldn't be able to release gas in such a large, outdoor area that effectively and from farther away.

That entire scene was very confusing to me, although of course it left Ben's alliance to the Hostiles vague.

PS: Arkol, very good insight. I hadn't known that at all. You're onto something!

[Darkshines]

Richard Alpert. He's had quite a big role so far.
1. Recruited Juliet
2. Ben's go to guy.
3. Filmed Juliet's sister and child in the park in Miami
4. Gay Locke Sawyer's red folder on the hill.
There's more but I gotta go

Wow, I think you may have Misheard THAT ep......:rotfl:

[RangerMel]

I'm just gonna ask this here to avoid making another Jacob thread:

What the hell is this "hole in Jacob's head" everyone is talking about? All I see is curly hair.

I looked at the screencap, and i couldn't find Jacob's hole either.

[CENSORED]

Just wanted to put my 2c in....

I appreciate the backstory episodes because obviously they are very important to advancing the plot and giving us a larger picture of the situation and characters, and answering questions.

But I would prefer they use some kind of backstory/current plot format, rather than devoting entire episodes almost exclusively to flashbacks. Last night was interesting about the Dharma Others/ Hostiles, Jacob etc. and Ben's history on the Island.

But just as with Desmond's flashback episode-I felt it was just too much of the entire episode. Time to go back to the beach people!

I prefer episodes where they combine a nice balance of backstory and current plot. We need more time on the beach in real time; the main problem with the show in the beginning of this season was too much time on the second Island and not enough plot on the beach with the regulars.

I get tired of these episodes which are about 90% backstory. They don't connect us with the current plot enough in my opinion.

I just think that it was time to reveal what has happened....that's what Locke asked of Ben. We got to see what really happened as the viewer. This episode was about the past.....which leads to more backstory.

I believe the next episode will be filled with current beach scenes.

[TheTerribleTwist]

I believe so.

But if he has no tribal connections, then no. I am missing something. When was Richard introduced? It seems like I've never heard of him before- and trust me, I am a quite frequent watcher of lost. I must have missed this.

Who is Richard?

You might want to go back and watch the episodes again.

[jaf]

I think Richards’s appearance in the young Bens flash back is going to be key to the events changer for season 4. His ageless appearance was no accident.
Young Bens ability to see his dead mother kept him from being snuffed by Richard. He was hoping Ben is "him". The one that can communicate with Jacob.

The repeated references to Locke being special by the others is because they knew he was paralyzed before arriving on the island.
Ben shot Locke because he is a threat to his power mad hold over the others. Ben has a typical case of a bad childhood.
An oppressive father that blames him for his wife’s death. Missing mom. He has become a control freak. He does not want any competition as "leader".

Maybe Locke is a "him" too.

I want to know why the others let Walt go when it was so obvious he had special abilities. Is Ben really that important to them?

John

[arkol]

Richard Alpert. He's had quite a big role so far.
1. Recruited Juliet
2. Ben's go to guy.
3. Filmed Juliet's sister and child in the park in Miami
4. Gay Locke Sawyer's red folder on the hill.
There's more but I gotta go
Richard is ageless, because he is the one that does the most traveling back and forth in time. he is ben's travel guy to the past.

[arkol]

Richard Alpert. He's had quite a big role so far.
1. Recruited Juliet
2. Ben's go to guy.
3. Filmed Juliet's sister and child in the park in Miami
4. Gay Locke Sawyer's red folder on the hill.
There's more but I gotta go

Richard is ageless, because he is the one that does the most traveling back and forth in time. he is Ben's travel guy to the past.