Where was Desmond

[The artist formerly known]

Where was Desmond in Charlie's flashback? Charlie was singing Wonderwall and put his case away but no Desmond talking to him.

So lets play this out. Before Charlie came to the island last nights flashback was accurate. He was singing outside a business for money and left and saved Nadia.

Then Desmond goes back in time and talks to Charlie and this is the new memory.

So why last night did we not see Desmond?

[missedflight815]

Who says it was the same day?

[cinderellabop]

In another thread, someone posted pictures that seemed to support the evidence that the Desmond encounter was a different day. I'll see if I can find it...

[Fancy Monkey]

Maybe. Not at all implausible. But, what if this is a subtle way for TPTB to tell us that Desmond's flash didn't really happen that way? At the very least, we have to consider that one (or both - unreliable narrator?) of these flashbacks was wrong. I think if they wanted to make it obvious that it was a different day, they wouldn't have included the same song, or the rain storm. I think there was supposed to be some ambiguity there.

Personally, I hope it was the same day. I'm of the camp that what Desmond flashed back to never really happened outside of his own mind.

[Crandyman]

I tend to believe it WAS the same day but I guess none of that really matters. As Fancy Monkey pointed out here and IMLOSTRU? suggested here (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1540383&postcount=241), in the Course Correcting thread in T&S, it could always be chalked up to the UNRELIABLE NARRATOR. Remember what is important and memorable to one person may not be the same to another. Since flashbacks are represented as that characters point of view, some things may appear different.

[normal42]

I'll save you the effort Cinderellabop

From Greatest Hits
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u150/normally42/GratestHits04.jpg

From Flashes Before Your Eyes
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u150/normally42/Flashes01.jpg

I think the quickest way for them to say this was the same day would be use the same clothes. In addition to that there were far less people watching him in this epi as opposed to Flashes.
It is the same cornor, it is the same song, and it does rain. I would say Charlie has found that he can play here without being harrassed and that crowds like this song. As for the rain, it rains quite a bit in England.

Since flashbacks are represented as that characters point of view, some things me appear different.
I agree with this idea in theory but there is a difference between what works in reality and what works on screen. Television is a visual medium and if you want audiences to believe it's the same day you show them the same visuals.

[zartan]

This is just an aside, but perhaps the reason that Desmond can see flashes of Charlie's future is because he encountered Charlie in the flashback that he was able to revisit. Perhaps this linked them psychically. I'm sure somebody else thought of it first, but it bears pointing out again.

[MrSocko]

I also feel like Charlie's clothes would have been the same if the writers had wanted us to think it was the same day. But then again, I don't think Desmond's flashback was real. So maybe it was the same day, but the real version of what happened: in reality, Desmond does not recognize Charlie (as they haven't met yet) so he doesn't think to say anything to him, and continues on his way.

Just an idea. Personally I think it was different days, and Charlie just likes Oasis (who doesn't? :))

[Hodgepodge]

I'll save you the effort Cinderellabop

From Greatest Hits
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u150/normally42/GratestHits04.jpg

From Flashes Before Your Eyes
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u150/normally42/Flashes01.jpg


...I agree with this idea in theory but there is a difference between what works in reality and what works on screen. Television is a visual medium and if you want audiences to believe it's the same day you show them the same visuals.Thanks as usual Normal42! And, I agree 100%. If TPTB wanted to represent two scenes from two different episodes as the same day, they would've used the same clothing. This is what the Prop people and Wardrobe personnel are suppose to do. Make sure there are no continuity errors. So, what does that say when we catch so many of them? :confused:

[Fancy Monkey]

But would they have used the same song, and the rainstorm?

I'm not saying it's conclusive one way or another. I'm saying in this case, TPTB wanted to give us enough reason to believe either way.

[Farmer Ted]

Perhaps it's earlier in the same day. It started raining, Charlie went home for a while, changed out of his wet clothes, and then went back and started where he left off, only to have it rain on him a second time when Desmond showed up.

[Synner]

There is absolutely no indication that it was the same day, unless we are to believe Charlie only went out on the corner once in his life.

I'll also echo the thoughts of Normal as well. The unreliable narrator literary device is entirely plausible here, based on what we've seen so far. But it does not work well on the screen. In order to be able to make sense of the story, you have to be able to rely on what you seen, even if you can't explain it. Unlike a really good book, on a screen (big or small) we are not privy to the details that get fleshed out in a person's thoughts that would enable us to conclude the discrepancies are the result of an unreliable narrator. Without those intimate thoughts, we have nothing with which we can distinguish fantasy / inaccurate memories from reality.

[WGM]

Just for the sake of simple discussion, I want to say that I really liked Desmond's talk with Charlie just before Charlie whacked him in the head in the outrigger ... When Des said (paraphrase) "Maybe the reason I keep seeing you die isn't because you're supposed to die ... but because I'm supposed to keep it from happening." ... In essence, Des is saying he feels like he's seeing what he's supposed to do ... not what's supposed to happen to Charlie ...

My mom got into studying dream interpretation a while back ... and one of the things she told me was that a common belief is that whenever you dream, the main character in the dream (regardless of who it is) is a representation of yourself ... that it's really YOU that's going thru whatever it is you're dreaming about ...

Apply this to Des ... and perhaps it makes a little more sense ... because if Charlie was supposed to die way back when, how would he be alive to swim down to The Looking Glass and flip the switch?

I know this line of thinking gets thin when you realize that the arrow would have struck Charlie during the Naomi episode had Des not tackled Charlie ... but still, Des had the power the entire time to keep that situation from happening ...

just something to think about ... it might become a more prominent issue down the road, that Des has been forseeing his own destiny, and not the destiny of Charlie ...

[IMLOSTRU?]

I tend to believe it WAS the same day but I guess none of that really matters. As Fancy Monkey pointed out here and IMLOSTRU? suggested here (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1540383&postcount=241), in the Course Correcting thread in T&S, it could always be chalked up to the UNRELIABLE NARRATOR. Remember what is important and memorable to one person may not be the same to another. Since flashbacks are represented as that characters point of view, some things may appear different.

Thanks Crandy. I am a firm believer that in this show we would have been more overtly told that it was the same day instead of it being so ambiguous.

[twilightsun]

I have never believed that that was a "flashback" in "Flashes Before Your Eyes." I thought it was more like a coma dream in which Desmond was remembering things from the past but inserting his present self into them. Don't you ever dream about something that happened years ago, but you also know things from now? Maybe that's just me...

[noaction14]

But would they have used the same song, and the rainstorm?

I'm not saying it's conclusive one way or another. I'm saying in this case, TPTB wanted to give us enough reason to believe either way.

This is one of the essences of LOST. They give us reason to believe EITHER WAY. This can be applied to Mikhail/Sayid's cat, Hurley's Dave, and many other "yeah, but whaddabout"s.

TPTB want us to have enough evidence to be able to argue both, sometimes several, sides of many mysteries. I have faith that the truth behind these mysteries will be revealed to us in the most satisfying way possible: by having many questions answered, leaving several ambiguous, and ending in three years with (hopefully) a gratifying (but still debate-worthy) conclusion.

[ZIA]

I tend to believe it WAS the same day but I guess none of that really matters. As Fancy Monkey pointed out here and IMLOSTRU? suggested here (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1540383&postcount=241), in the Course Correcting thread in T&S, it could always be chalked up to the UNRELIABLE NARRATOR. Remember what is important and memorable to one person may not be the same to another. Since flashbacks are represented as that characters point of view, some things may appear different.

I would also like to add that it could have been the same day, and on that same day Desmond did one thing different-thus affecting the entire string of events. That would explain why Charlie seemed to be dressed differently. Maybe that's too simple of an explanation, but Desmond does go back and try to change things over and over.
Zia

[rosalind711]

it might become a more prominent issue down the road, that Des has been forseeing his own destiny, and not the destiny of Charlie ...
good thoughts.