Danielle's 16-yr Radio Message = Reaction From the Purge?

[Boogieman]

Hello All, Searched and couldn't find anything discussing Danielle's message as a possible reaction to her coming back and finding that Ben had purged the DI.

Was she trying to send the signal to the DI? She has to know more than she is letting on to know to get to the radio tower, and to broadcast the message.

This thought was stimulated based on "The Answers" from last night. They showed the purge and her message in close proximity, almost as a clue that they are one in the same.

I am not buying that her message was for her research vessel team, nor about the sickness. She is mad at Ben about the purge, and he took Alex from her about this same time (Ben likes the kiddies).

[Crandyman]

Sometimes a distess signal is just a distress signal.

I see where you are headed with this but I don't quite understand it's significance. It's obvious that when Danielle made the signal, all she wanted to do was get rescued. Are you suggesting the only reason she made the distress call was because of the Purge? I don't see why she would be content on the island all the up until the Purge, then suddenly want to make a distress signal. That is unless you don't believe a word of her story, I guess.

[Boogieman]

Crandy, I am suggesting a possibility that she was Dharma all along, and wanted to contact the DI off-island to alert them that Ben had purged and killed most of the DI. Her "They're all dead" seems to fit the scene of Ben returning to the DI village and seeing a whole bunch of dead people. Thoughts?

[Crandyman]

Crandy, I am suggesting a possibility that she was Dharma all along, and wanted to contact the DI off-island to alert them that Ben had purged and killed most of the DI. Her "They're all dead" seems to fit the scene of Ben returning to the DI village and seeing a whole bunch of dead people. Thoughts?

So, that means her entire story would be false, which I am not willing to accept. She was part of a research team that crashed on the island 16 years ago. There is reason for me to believe otherwise and no evidence to support the claim that she is former DI.

[weiwuwei]

So, that means her entire story would be false, which I am not willing to accept. She was part of a research team that crashed on the island 16 years ago. There is reason for me to believe otherwise and no evidence to support the claim that she is former DI.

But it does raise an interesting point: sure, a distress call is a distress call, but even if I've been through a whole lot of crazy stuff and lost a lot of sanity points, if I actually manage to figure out a way to transmit a "distress call" it's not going to say "I'm alone; it killed all of them; they're all dead." My call would say "I'm Danielle Rousseau, of the Ye Olde Science Ship, my crew has all died and I don't know where the eff I am, but last known coordinates were such and such. HELP!"

So.......is she THAT nuts, or was it not a distress call, but rather a WARNING? To whom?----we don't need to solve that yet. But I agree that it sounds like a fishy "distress" call.

[NumberStation]

But it does raise an interesting point: sure, a distress call is a distress call, but even if I've been through a whole lot of crazy stuff and lost a lot of sanity points, if I actually manage to figure out a way to transmit a "distress call" it's not going to say "I'm alone; it killed all of them; they're all dead." My call would say "I'm Danielle Rousseau, of the Ye Olde Science Ship, my crew has all died and I don't know where the eff I am, but last known coordinates were such and such. HELP!"

So.......is she THAT nuts, or was it not a distress call, but rather a WARNING? To whom?----we don't need to solve that yet. But I agree that it sounds like a fishy "distress" call.

Yes, it definitely sounds less like a distress call to an unknown recipient than it sounds like a direct message to some party that already knows something about her, but it's probably the case that the weirdness of the message is just supposed to suggest that she is crazy.

Remember, this thing was from a pretty early episode in season 1. She was the first "other" any of the Losties encountered. They were playing her up as insane and possibly dangerous, and she herself was raving about a sickness that drives one violently insane.

[Crandyman]

...Remember, this thing was from a pretty early episode in season 1. She was the first "other" any of the Losties encountered. They were playing her up as insane and possibly dangerous, and she herself was raving about a sickness that drives one violently insane.


That's a good point. Look at the character evolution of Danielle since her initial introduction. It is vastly different. She has gone from boderline schizophrenia to regular island castaway in a mere 90-days. I guess she really was just lonely. :rolleyez:

[fatpeoplearefunnier]

I love Danielle, and i would hate it if she were lying to the Losties, but i must say from the storyline point of view it would make a lot of sense.
Maybe she is Annie like someone suggested. Maybe she and Ben got married, got pregnant and Alex is really Ben's daughter. (how that pregnancy survived i do not know). But then Ben turned on Dharma and Annie/Danielle saw his true colors. She send out the message: they are all dead...
The main problem with that theory is why she would have send out the message in French. A French accent might not be that hard to fake if she wants to confuse the Losties, but why send out a French message 16 years earlier? French was obviously not Annie's first language.

[ZIA]

I don't believe Danielle has any ties to Ben's Others or the Dharma Initiative. In "The Answers" last night TPTB did state that she was shipwrecked on the island, her crew died, and she has been "sort of wandering around the Island." I was relieved to hear it because I always loved Danielle.

Like I've said before; my theory is that Ben and Annie were together (married,whatever) and she got pregnant and died which would fit in nicely with Ben's obsession about the fertility issue. Well, that and the fact that in order to create a successful society; you would need more people to grow that society or it would be doomed to die off.
Zia

[stratman]

I find it troubling that Ben would jam a signal but not send people to the tower and just turn it off or destroy it.

Are the TPTB implying there are places Ben and Gang won't venture?

And if Ben is actually having the signal jammed, and the source of the jamming is the Looking Glass station, why does he tell everyone 1) it's flooded, and, 2) it still works?? There is obviously something in or about the Looking Glass station he doesn't want anyone to know about - like the children of all those dead mothers or a way to get off the island.

[HellsChicken]

I'm surprised nobody here has pointed out the obvious, though. Danielle created her distress call, and the tower was LATER controlled by the Others. Remember Danielle telling Sayid that "they control it now"? Why was the DI not in control of the radio tower when Danielle first made the transmission?

[ZIA]

I'm surprised nobody here has pointed out the obvious, though. Danielle created her distress call, and the tower was LATER controlled by the Others. Remember Danielle telling Said that "they control it now"? Why was the DI not in control of the radio tower when Danielle first made the transmission?
WOW! Great memory! Danielle is on her own. Poor Danielle!
Zia

[sgtdraino]

Hello All, Searched and couldn't find anything discussing Danielle's message as a possible reaction to her coming back and finding that Ben had purged the DI.

Was she trying to send the signal to the DI? She has to know more than she is letting on to know to get to the radio tower, and to broadcast the message.

This thought was stimulated based on "The Answers" from last night. They showed the purge and her message in close proximity, almost as a clue that they are one in the same.

I am not buying that her message was for her research vessel team, nor about the sickness. She is mad at Ben about the purge, and he took Alex from her about this same time (Ben likes the kiddies).

I am loving this theory. I have never believed Danielle's story, and the full translation of her distress call definitely seems to back this theory up:

Iteration 17294530 : "If anybody can hear this, they are dead. Please help us. I'll try to make it to the Black Rock (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Black_Rock_%28ship%29). It [or he] killed them. It [or he] killed them all."

Iteration 17294531 : "It [or he] is outside. It [or he] is outside and Brennan (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Brennan) took the keys. Please help us. They are dead. They are all dead. Help us. They are dead."

Iteration 17294532 : "It [or he] is outside. It [or he] is outside and Brennan took the keys. Please help us. They are dead. They are all dead. Help us. They are dead."

Iteration 17294533 : "They are all dead. Help us. They are dead. If anybody can hear this --"

Iteration 17294534 : "It [or he] is outside. Please help us. Please help us !"

Iteration 17294535 : "If anybody can hear this, I'll try to make it to the Black Rock. Please help us ! They are all dead. They are dead. It [or he] killed them. It [or he] killed them all. I'll try to make it to the Black Rock."


That message is clearly meant for a specific group to hear. A group familiar with Danielle and the geography of the island (The Black Rock).

Due to the focus at the time on Smokey, and Shannon's rough translation, we all assumed "Il" should be translated as "it." But now it makes a lot more sense that "Il" in this context could indeed be "He." Ben.

[weiwuwei]

I am loving this theory. I have never believed Danielle's story, and the full translation of her distress call definitely seems to back this theory up:

Iteration 17294530 : "If anybody can hear this, they are dead. Please help us. I'll try to make it to the Black Rock (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Black_Rock_%28ship%29). It [or he] killed them. It [or he] killed them all."

Iteration 17294531 : "It [or he] is outside. It [or he] is outside and Brennan (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Brennan) took the keys. Please help us. They are dead. They are all dead. Help us. They are dead."

Iteration 17294532 : "It [or he] is outside. It [or he] is outside and Brennan took the keys. Please help us. They are dead. They are all dead. Help us. They are dead."

Iteration 17294533 : "They are all dead. Help us. They are dead. If anybody can hear this --"

Iteration 17294534 : "It [or he] is outside. Please help us. Please help us !"

Iteration 17294535 : "If anybody can hear this, I'll try to make it to the Black Rock. Please help us ! They are all dead. They are dead. It [or he] killed them. It [or he] killed them all. I'll try to make it to the Black Rock."


That message is clearly meant for a specific group to hear. A group familiar with Danielle and the geography of the island (The Black Rock).

Due to the focus at the time on Smokey, and Shannon's rough translation, we all assumed "Il" should be translated as "it." But now it makes a lot more sense that "Il" in this context could indeed be "He." Ben.

OH my god! How did I miss this? This should be on some list of "not-very-well-hidden hidden clues". Oh man-----of course she ain't what she says she is! Science ship my arse. 7 months pregnant---whatever!

[ZIA]

Wow! I 'd be someone that "didn't see that coming" if Danielle is with the "Others" or Dharma...
Zia

[fatpeoplearefunnier]

I am loving this theory. I have never believed Danielle's story, and the full translation of her distress call definitely seems to back this theory up:

Iteration 17294530 : "If anybody can hear this, they are dead. Please help us. I'll try to make it to the Black Rock (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Black_Rock_%28ship%29). It [or he] killed them. It [or he] killed them all."

Iteration 17294531 : "It [or he] is outside. It [or he] is outside and Brennan (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Brennan) took the keys. Please help us. They are dead. They are all dead. Help us. They are dead."

Iteration 17294532 : "It [or he] is outside. It [or he] is outside and Brennan took the keys. Please help us. They are dead. They are all dead. Help us. They are dead."

Iteration 17294533 : "They are all dead. Help us. They are dead. If anybody can hear this --"

Iteration 17294534 : "It [or he] is outside. Please help us. Please help us !"

Iteration 17294535 : "If anybody can hear this, I'll try to make it to the Black Rock. Please help us ! They are all dead. They are dead. It [or he] killed them. It [or he] killed them all. I'll try to make it to the Black Rock."


That message is clearly meant for a specific group to hear. A group familiar with Danielle and the geography of the island (The Black Rock).

Due to the focus at the time on Smokey, and Shannon's rough translation, we all assumed "Il" should be translated as "it." But now it makes a lot more sense that "Il" in this context could indeed be "He." Ben.

So what do you think this means exactly? Was Danielle part of Dharma? Sure seems that way. But why has Ben not killed her?
And: is she really lying about things or has she indeed lost her mind and has started to believe her own story about the Science ship?

Another important thing to remember: she tells Sayid that SHE killed her crew members. Remember how Sayid has gun pointed at her, but some kind of pin is missing and she says: "Robert didn't see it was missing either; before i killed him"
Now if you are the innocent Dharma victim of 'Ben gone wild', why would you say that you killed your own crew? Makes not a lot of sense.
Even if her disturbed mind came up with the shipwreck because it was a safer memory then the massacre, why include the self-incriminating part?

[korunn chalsad]

It's interesting in light of the ambiguous transmission that she says she hasn't seen the others but can "hear them whisper", when first talking to Sayid in S1 (and it now seems plausible that the whispers are distinct from the others that we know). She has had contact with / knows about Ben's crew (Alex taken, etc), so she could be making a conscious distinction here -- i.e. Ben et al are not the "others" she first mentions.

Also, it seems reasonable to place the purge at about 16 years before present time, no?

[weiwuwei]

It's interesting in light of the ambiguous transmission that she says she hasn't seen the others but can "hear them whisper", when first talking to Sayid in S1 (and it now seems plausible that the whispers are distinct from the others that we know). She has had contact with / knows about Ben's crew (Alex taken, etc), so she could be making a conscious distinction here -- i.e. Ben et al are not the "others" she first mentions.

Also, it seems reasonable to place the purge at about 16 years before present time, no?

Actually, it's Sayid who says something about "other PEOPLE on this island---have you seen them?" And she then says "no, but I've heard them...." She doesn't even make the distinction between other people and Others.

BS! If she had never seen ANY other people on the island, especially Others, how did she know Ben was an Other so quickly? Why wasn't she all "where's my child, bugger?"! I don't buy her story one bit----at least not that she had never seen them, yet knows so much about them and the island.

[LightSide/DarkSide]

After she told Sayid that she hadn't seen the others we found out fairly quickly that she was lying about that. She stold Aaron and made that column of black smoke to draw them out and possibly make a trade for her daughter. If she lied about that then there's no telling what else she was lying about.

Now, the part that I get hung up on is her story about her ship and following the numbers transmission to the island. On her maps there appears to be a drawing of (her) crashed ship somewhere just off the coast of the island. This suggests to me that this part of her story is true but maybe not.

The thing I find interesting about her distress call is that it is somewhat ambiguous (as has been pointed out by the use of "il"). She uses "il" in two seperate statements without reference as to what either "il" could be. If I remember this right she suggested to Sayid that "it killed them" was a reference to the sickness. Her entire crew got sick and she had to kill them. But that doesn't make sense when applied to the other "il". "The sickness" is outside? That could makes sense but not in the context of her message. She goes on to say that she is going to the Black Rock. If she's worried about a sickness outside of the radio tower (implying that the tower is a safe area) then why risk going outside to the Black Rock?

It's also strange (as pointed out already) that she mentions the Black Rock in her distress call. That implies that whoever she expects to receive the message is familiar with the Black Rock and the island's location (she never gives coordinates). To me this means one of two things. Either the message is intended for someone that knows where she is (and was blocked) or the message was intended for someone already on the island who is familiar with her situation. It could be that her "research" ship was actually a search and rescue mission. Could she have been sent by Dharma in response to the purge to find out what happened? I always found it highly suspicious that a researcher/scientist/whatever she's supposed to be would be so skilled with firearms, setting traps, demolitions, stealth, and survival.

I think she was on a ship, that ship and her crew was sent to the island for a very different reason than she stated, her ship crashed, and her mission went to poop. :(

[Radio Mogul]

Plus, remember when she caught Ben in the trap. She did not seem to know Ben's exact identity, or she would have ripped him a new oraffice, and not handed him over to the losties.

Ben was claiming to be lost in the balloon accident.

Danielle may well have come on a Dharma rescue mission, but I think smokey took out her crew.

[LightSide/DarkSide]

I had another thought about Danielle's distress call. It's possible that it was intended for a person or persons left behind on her ship. Maybe her ship didn't crash right away but was anchored off the coast (and crashed/was sunk later). If it was anchored then it makes sense that someone would be left on board to make sure that there was a ship to return to. An anchored ship isn't a good thing to leave unmanned after all. She may have been attempting to warn the rest of her crew and to tell them where they could find her.

I've been waiting impatiently for a Danielle flashback episode ever since she was introduced. I'm dying to know what her real story is. Plus I want to see Montand lose his arm. Hopefully they'll give her a flashback next season. :crossfing

[fatpeoplearefunnier]

I always found it highly suspicious that a researcher/scientist/whatever she's supposed to be would be so skilled with firearms, setting traps, demolitions, stealth, and survival.


Maybe she was a girl scout!
(not one of those American ones, whose main mission is to sell cookies, but a French one; they're tough!)

[Boogieman]

Kinda sounds like Naomi's current situation... hmmm!

[ZIA]

I had another thought about Danielle's distress call. It's possible that it was intended for a person or persons left behind on her ship. Maybe her ship didn't crash right away but was anchored off the coast (and crashed/was sunk later). If it was anchored then it makes sense that someone would be left on board to make sure that there was a ship to return to. An anchored ship isn't a good thing to leave unmanned after all. She may have been attempting to warn the rest of her crew and to tell them where they could find her.

I've been waiting impatiently for a Danielle flashback episode ever since she was introduced. I'm dying to know what her real story is. Plus I want to see Montand lose his arm. Hopefully they'll give her a flashback next season. :crossfing

I've ben dying for a Danielle flashback too....and I want to see Montand lose his arm. :)

[weiwuwei]

Plus, remember when she caught Ben in the trap. She did not seem to know Ben's exact identity, or she would have ripped him a new oraffice, and not handed him over to the losties.

But didn't she say instantly "he's one of them, don't trust him?" That seems pretty strange if she had no experience with "them." I think that "trap" wasn't for Ben----him in the net was a trap for the Losties. I think he might have gone to her (if they weren't already in cahoots) and "made her an offer she couldn't refuse" and so she agreed to not only get him in the camp safely (if he just came to camp, he'd have no chance of pulling the "Henry Gale" act) but also to help him out later by bringing them all to someplace (she says the radio tower, I say BS) that he can then "have his way" with them (whatever that might be, killing them, etc) and at that he'll let her at least see Alex. I think that's why she's so gung-ho to help the Losties take on the Others----she's suddenly turned very "involved" for someone who survived for so long by staying uninvolved, you know?

[Boogieman]

But didn't she say instantly "he's one of them, don't trust him?" That seems pretty strange if she had no experience with "them." I think that "trap" wasn't for Ben----him in the net was a trap for the Losties. I think he might have gone to her (if they weren't already in cahoots) and "made her an offer she couldn't refuse" and so she agreed to not only get him in the camp safely (if he just came to camp, he'd have no chance of pulling the "Henry Gale" act) but also to help him out later by bringing them all to someplace (she says the radio tower, I say BS) that he can then "have his way" with them (whatever that might be, killing them, etc) and at that he'll let her at least see Alex. I think that's why she's so gung-ho to help the Losties take on the Others----she's suddenly turned very "involved" for someone who survived for so long by staying uninvolved, you know?

I am seeing eye-to-eye with you on this one, and this is along the lines of why I originally started this topic. Perhaps this deal Ben and Danielle have pays off next week. I haven't read any of the latest spoilers, so have no fear spoilerfreefan, this is pure speculation. As Danielle takes them to the "radio tower" I imagine bad things might happen. The little things add up to support Grand Scheme for Ben and an alternate Scheme for Danielle...

Letting the recorder go to Locke knowing he would give it to the Losties.
Getting trapped in the net after being on the island nearly his entire life.
Working a deal with Juliette and presumbably Jack to get them off the island, while brainwashing Locke to blow up the sub.
Appearing vulnerable so the Losties AND Others will "show" their true intentions, this way when his big plan unveils, he knows who he can trust, and who are his threats.
Enter 77, Danielle and the communications shack... my bet is this was the radio tower, and the remaining Dharma Initiative (Danielle/Mrs. Klugh/Patchy) where deriving a plan to retaliate against, and topple Ben.
All the "Mama drama" about Alex needs to have a pay-off for the large amount of time invested in the story.

[lostmymarbles]

I always found it highly suspicious that a researcher/scientist/whatever she's supposed to be would be so skilled with firearms, setting traps, demolitions, stealth, and survival.

What??
Shes been on the Island for 16years watching her back, staying hidden, trying to put together weapons, im sure she is most skilled person on the show with all the above.

As for all this Boo-Hockey I dont think Danielle is even thinking of joining Ben she hates him more then anyone i bet, Danielle is a Lostie now and I have no reason not to trust her.

[LightSide/DarkSide]

What??
Shes been on the Island for 16years watching her back, staying hidden, trying to put together weapons, im sure she is most skilled person on the show with all the above.


That's precisely my point. I find that suspect. She was supposed to be part of a research team (perhaps code for recon team?) I find it curious that a researcher could develop the skills necessary to survive and stay hidden on this particular island by herself for even a year. If she didn't already have expertise in all of the skills mentioned then it would have taken her years to develop them. How did she manage to survive in the mean time without Smokie, the others, or the polar bears killing her? Her story seems pretty incredible and since she's lied already...

[weiwuwei]

That's precisely my point. I find that suspect. She was supposed to be part of a research team (perhaps code for recon team?) I find it curious that a researcher could develop the skills necessary to survive and stay hidden on this particular island by herself for even a year. If she didn't already have expertise in all of the skills mentioned then it would have taken her years to develop them. How did she manage to survive in the mean time without Smokie, the others, or the polar bears killing her? Her story seems pretty incredible and since she's lied already...

I agree, in the sense that it's not the "usual" thing to happen when someone gets stranded in the wilderness for a long time. I think we all have this idea in our heads that almost anyone would last for a long time as long as no illness or bad accidents happened to them, but it's just not true when you're by yourself. If you have other people to help you survive (dividing duties, combining skills and knowledge, being the voice of reason for each other, etc) then you might be okay. However, if you're by yourself, and have no experience with survival skills like guns, hunting, foraging, shelter-building, avoiding dangerous wild animals, etc, then you're probably gonna die pretty quick. When we have the benefit of each other's experience, we do well, but when we're left to figure things out for ourselves, it takes a long time if it happens at all.

[Jaypers]

Two things that struck me in reading this post


1) Might Danielle have been with the Richard Group that was on the island before Ben joined them?

2) When did the signal start getting blocked? Isn't that how the dude who gave the numbers to Hurley learned about them from his father?

I guess I am confused on the timelines.



.

[weiwuwei]

Two things that struck me in reading this post


1) Might Danielle have been with the Richard Group that was on the island before Ben joined them?

2) When did the signal start getting blocked? Isn't that how the dude who gave the numbers to Hurley learned about them from his father?

I guess I am confused on the timelines.
.


Danielle heard the numbers the same "year" (1988) that Sam Toomey heard the numbers on the radio waves. Hard to say who heard them first, but even if it was Danielle, it would have taken her a while to change the transmission to her tape, so Sam would have had a chance to hear them as well.

[Verite Garde]

Excellent, excellent thread!

I, too, love Danielle and wonder when we'll finally get a flashback on her.

This thread, though, has me truly doubting her story now.

However. The reason she had a baby and both lived is because she did not conceive on Craphole. I do believe Ben found out about her just like he found out about the Losties and kidnapped her while pregnant and she escaped after Alex was born.

It also seems that whoever her distress signal was supposed to reach was also on Craphole.

Do we know how long she was there prior to the distress signal? Couldn't have been more than seven months or so, since she had to have become pregnant before she got there.

So Alex is 16 and wasn't it 16 years ago exactly when the purge took place?

For once I see a real possible connection!

I also don't think she's in cahoots with Ben. Mikhial apparently is loyal to Ben, so I don't think she is in cahoots with him either.

[stratman]

That's precisely my point. I find that suspect. She was supposed to be part of a research team (perhaps code for recon team?) I find it curious that a researcher could develop the skills necessary to survive and stay hidden on this particular island by herself for even a year. If she didn't already have expertise in all of the skills mentioned then it would have taken her years to develop them. How did she manage to survive in the mean time without Smokie, the others, or the polar bears killing her? Her story seems pretty incredible and since she's lied already...

1) Danielle stated she was already pregnant (7 months?) when shipwrecked. I doubt a paramilitary outfit would take her along for a search and rescue or reacquisition mission even if she was the leader. I can see a slighty dippy, overly exuberant acquatic or terrestrial research group have a pregnant woman on a short term reasearch trip though.

2) Not everybody grows up in the city. I know women that can take care of themselves in the wild and can shoot the snot out of most men. A buddy's wife has competed at Camp Perry and performed well at various distances. He says, jokingly (sort of), he has nothing to worry about his wife and her Garand out past 1000 yards. Someone who sails as part of their research probably knows a little about living with nature. There were literally 100's or 1000's of these types of women that pioneered the West in the 19th century USA.

3) What Danielle didn't know she would figure out. Necessity is the mother of all invention. Fear and hunger are great motivators. Trial and error is the process. 16 years is a plenty of time to hone her skills.

4) Danielle managed to avoid the others by knowing their territory and staying away. She even says she doesn't like to go to the Dark Territory where the Black Rock is. She must have had a bad experience and did not care to repeat it. Danielle stays alive by not pushing her luck. Dumb people die quicker doing dumb things. It's the basis for those yearly Darwin Awards emails (the top ten ways idiots kill themselves while doing something stupid. at least their genes won't be passed on, hence the name Darwin Awards)

[weiwuwei]

1) Danielle stated she was already pregnant (7 months?) when shipwrecked. I doubt a paramilitary outfit would take her along for a search and rescue or reacquisition mission even if she was the leader. I can see a slighty dippy, overly exuberant acquatic or terrestrial research group have a pregnant woman on a short term reasearch trip though.

Really? You can see a science expedition taking a 7-month-pregnant woman on a boat for any amount of time? You're not even supposed to fly to your mother's house in Resida during your last trimester, yet Danielle thought it would be okay to go on an EXPEDITION? I find the entire "I was sailing while pregnant" story unbelievable, myself.

2) Not everybody grows up in the city. I know women that can take care of themselves in the wild and can shoot the snot out of most men. A buddy's wife has competed at Camp Perry and performed well at various distances. He says, jokingly (sort of), he has nothing to worry about his wife and her Garand out past 1000 yards. Someone who sails as part of their research probably knows a little about living with nature. There were literally 100's or 1000's of these types of women that pioneered the West in the 19th century USA.

I think you're missing our point here: no one's questioning a woman's ability to survive in general (I, myself, am a survivalist woman who likes it better in the woods). What we're saying is that usually, when someone is such a scientist that they are taking science expeditions (which says she's probably got a grant for it), they're usually the type of person who has spent more time in a lab than in the woods, because it takes a long time to become a truly professional scientist, and not just an amateur one. It also takes a long time to really get good at survivalist skills; believe it or not, you need to actually practice that stuff after you read it in a book or see it on Discovery. It's not just something you can read and then go "okay, come the Revolution I'll be able to survive off lichen and morning dew." Remember, her crew was killed rather quickly, because she had the baby by herself, alone. So the fact that she was so good at it so quickly is rather suspect.

3) What Danielle didn't know she would figure out. Necessity is the mother of all invention. Fear and hunger are great motivators. Trial and error is the process. 16 years is a plenty of time to hone her skills.

Again, sure, 16 years of practice would make you expert, but the point is that you most likely wouldn't survive the first 16 days if you didn't know what you were doing. She had her crew....for a very short while. Either they cracked down right away and went "okay, Danielle, just in case we all die, here's all of our survivalist knowledge" or she knew a good bit of it on her own already.

4) Danielle managed to avoid the others by knowing their territory and staying away. She even says she doesn't like to go to the Dark Territory where the Black Rock is. She must have had a bad experience and did not care to repeat it. Danielle stays alive by not pushing her luck. Dumb people die quicker doing dumb things. It's the basis for those yearly Darwin Awards emails (the top ten ways idiots kill themselves while doing something stupid. at least their genes won't be passed on, hence the name Darwin Awards)

Yes, this is what she says. However, we've already shown her words to be highly suspect simply due to her so-called "transmission" contradicting her own story. She says she's all freaked by the dark territory, yet she seems pretty fine to me when se leads the Losties there the first time....and then managed to bring herself back numerous times in the "last few days" (Island time) to get them dynamite. She also would have had to figure out where the boundaries of the Others' territory was, and the whole point is that she says she's had no dealings with them, yet here she is knowing exactly where they are and aren't. Yes, she had 16 years to figure this out. But the pint is: she knows a hell of a lot more about the Others than she lets on. She plays it like she's just been totally alone the whole time and NEVER has seen Alex, never talked to the Others, never made contact and we're saying "BS."

[Boogieman]

I think you're missing our point here: no one's questioning a woman's ability to survive in general (I, myself, am a survivalist woman who likes it better in the woods). What we're saying is that usually, when someone is such a scientist that they are taking science expeditions (which says she's probably got a grant for it), they're usually the type of person who has spent more time in a lab than in the woods, because it takes a long time to become a truly professional scientist, and not just an amateur one. It also takes a long time to really get good at survivalist skills; believe it or not, you need to actually practice that stuff after you read it in a book or see it on Discovery. It's not just something you can read and then go "okay, come the Revolution I'll be able to survive off lichen and morning dew." Remember, her crew was killed rather quickly, because she had the baby by herself, alone. So the fact that she was so good at it so quickly is rather suspect.


I am an Engineer (not a scientist, which takes even more study) and I fully agree with this. I have spent more time on study than outdoors, or farming, or hunting, or doing fix-up projects around the house. Now that I am working, and no longer studying, I am trying to learn these things. I feel like a complete idiot for not knowing my way around farm equipment, simple house projects, etc.

I am learning, but not fast. My aptitude is driven toward envisioning, inventing and designing things.... not fixing them. It is sad really, but I think I would be dead on this island within a year. Not only because of nature, but the skill of hiding from the Others, the skill to "pick up trails/tracks", avoiding that pesky smoke monster who might disapprove of some of my past choices, etc.

At the end of the day it boils down to this... Scientists and Engineers are curious people. Danielle's curiosity would explain her finding a radio tower, and her skill to change the message... but I doubt she could overcome her curiosity to explore the entire island, map out EVERYTHING, know where all resources would be, find Desmond's boat when it was on the beach for so long, find Kelvin out surveying, find at least one of the Others, etc. She claims her only contact was "whispers" and I say BS! ... and after 16 years she finally captures Ben... more BS!

[stratman]

Really? You can see a science expedition taking a 7-month-pregnant woman on a boat for any amount of time? You're not even supposed to fly to your mother's house in Resida during your last trimester, yet Danielle thought it would be okay to go on an EXPEDITION? I find the entire "I was sailing while pregnant" story unbelievable, myself.

A woman that sails the open seas is precisely the kind of person that would learn to handle themselves in hazaardous and extreme conditions. Men do it. Why not women too?

You obviously do not know many academics or researchers who's study involves the outdoors or ocean. There are women that will go on short proscribed plannned excursions while 7 months pregnant. There are women that will jog at 7 months pregnant or lift weights. There are women that go camping and boating while 7 months pregnant. And there is NO universal ban on pregnant women flying in their 3rd trimester. The fact is there are some pretty tough women. Whether their actions are prudent or not is another question.


I think you're missing our point here: no one's questioning a woman's ability to survive in general (I, myself, am a survivalist woman who likes it better in the woods). What we're saying is that usually, when someone is such a scientist that they are taking science expeditions (which says she's probably got a grant for it), they're usually the type of person who has spent more time in a lab than in the woods, because it takes a long time to become a truly professional scientist, and not just an amateur one. It also takes a long time to really get good at survivalist skills; believe it or not, you need to actually practice that stuff after you read it in a book or see it on Discovery. It's not just something you can read and then go "okay, come the Revolution I'll be able to survive off lichen and morning dew." Remember, her crew was killed rather quickly, because she had the baby by herself, alone. So the fact that she was so good at it so quickly is rather suspect.

"Usually". Uh huh. Where is the "usual" in Lost?

I think you have missed the point completely, including a reoccuring theme in Lost. Extra-ordinary actions/events happen to seemingly ordinary people. While no real proof exists, Danielle could have had military/paramilitary/survivalist experience AND may be a researcher, which would explain her story as researcher and survivalist. Hence yours and my assumptions are pure speculations and neither is able to say the other is incorrect yet. If you are a survivalist, then you would know you could function reasonable so at 7 months pregnancy if need be and barring complications. Do you think that women of centuries past got a free ride to not do hard labor (ie their chores)? Not doing the work would mean harsher existence and possible death.


Again, sure, 16 years of practice would make you expert, but the point is that you most likely wouldn't survive the first 16 days if you didn't know what you were doing. She had her crew....for a very short while. Either they cracked down right away and went "okay, Danielle, just in case we all die, here's all of our survivalist knowledge" or she knew a good bit of it on her own already.

So it is believable that Locke becomes the Great White Hunter but Danielle is a meek wilting lilly that should have died? That is pretty sexist even for a non-feminist as myself. People I have met in my life are proof positive that there are some mean, lean fighting machine women out there.



Yes, this is what she says. However, we've already shown her words to be highly suspect simply due to her so-called "transmission" contradicting her own story. She says she's all freaked by the dark territory, yet she seems pretty fine to me when se leads the Losties there the first time....and then managed to bring herself back numerous times in the "last few days" (Island time) to get them dynamite. She also would have had to figure out where the boundaries of the Others' territory was, and the whole point is that she says she's had no dealings with them, yet here she is knowing exactly where they are and aren't. Yes, she had 16 years to figure this out. But the pint is: she knows a hell of a lot more about the Others than she lets on. She plays it like she's just been totally alone the whole time and NEVER has seen Alex, never talked to the Others, never made contact and we're saying "BS."

I agree with your examples of Danielle's inconsistencies. Add to that the ruthlessness with which she physically abuses Sayid and her astute powers of observations similar to how the Others/Hostiles behave. You may be correct. Once a liar, always a liar. Right? The money is on Danielle to be lying about other events as well. I hope Sayid makes sure there is a firing pin in the rifle Danielle leaves behind for igniting the dynamite! But until there is more proof, either your or my speculation could be true. Without more evidence then it is foolish to discount either one at this point based on what's "usual" or limited experience with differrent personality/character types.

[stratman]

I am an Engineer (not a scientist, which takes even more study) and I fully agree with this. I have spent more time on study than outdoors, or farming, or hunting, or doing fix-up projects around the house. Now that I am working, and no longer studying, I am trying to learn these things. I feel like a complete idiot for not knowing my way around farm equipment, simple house projects, etc.

I am learning, but not fast. My aptitude is driven toward envisioning, inventing and designing things.... not fixing them. It is sad really, but I think I would be dead on this island within a year. Not only because of nature, but the skill of hiding from the Others, the skill to "pick up trails/tracks", avoiding that pesky smoke monster who might disapprove of some of my past choices, etc.

At the end of the day it boils down to this... Scientists and Engineers are curious people. Danielle's curiosity would explain her finding a radio tower, and her skill to change the message... but I doubt she could overcome her curiosity to explore the entire island, map out EVERYTHING, know where all resources would be, find Desmond's boat when it was on the beach for so long, find Kelvin out surveying, find at least one of the Others, etc. She claims her only contact was "whispers" and I say BS! ... and after 16 years she finally captures Ben... more BS!

I believe you also suffer from the other poster's "one size fits all" way of thinking.

Why would it be impossible for someone brought up in a family that were avid campers, outdoorsmen/women, naturalists, live off the land types that would take her natural curiousity, engendered and nurtured by her upbringing, and focus it on some form of research involving nature?

Maybe Danielle grew up in a male centric environment where she was treated as "one of the boys" and therefore learned all these traditionally male oriented activities.

Maybe she is ex-military or ex-government-sponsored covert operations.

I'm not saying you're wrong and I'm correct. I'm saying none of us know what her story is yet. Until more is revealed, discounting a very plausible explanation is intellectually dishonest, especially behind the facade of cultural norms. Afterall, we are dealing with human intellect and emotion, not a scientific fact such as whether the cable to the Looking Glass Hatch/Station is an anchor or carry enough power for its operation.

[weiwuwei]

A woman that sails the open seas is precisely the kind of person that would learn to handle themselves in hazaardous and extreme conditions. Men do it. Why not women too?

Sure, great, fine. A woman would sail and be courageous----again, I'm not questioning the bravery of women. I'm questioning the reasonable decisions of an expecting mother.

You obviously do not know many academics or researchers who's study involves the outdoors or ocean. There are women that will go on short proscribed plannned excursions while 7 months pregnant. There are women that will jog at 7 months pregnant or lift weights. There are women that go camping and boating while 7 months pregnant. And there is NO universal ban on pregnant women flying in their 3rd trimester. The fact is there are some pretty tough women. Whether their actions are prudent or not is another question.

Actually, I'm friend with a woman who is an astronomer, and had a trip to Hawaii planned to go to an observatory there for a week. She had to cancel the trip altogether because she found out she was pregnant and they don't like pregnant women to go above a certain altitude (the observatory is up on a volcano). She's only a few months along (like 2); so yes, I do know women whose scientific study involves trips and the outdoors. And yes, there are women who boat and camp and climb during their pregnancy; the point is, you're supposed to stay close to your OBGYN in case you go into early labor, which happens all the time. If you ask any "real life" pregnant woman, scientist or survivalist, if she would risk her baby's life for her career or for anything, she'll say no. She'll say screw the research, I'm not chancing losing my baby. So, if you know women who have traveled abroad during their last trimester, I would ask: what was so important that they were willing to risk their child's life to travel?


"Usually". Uh huh. Where is the "usual" in Lost?

I think you have missed the point completely, including a reoccuring theme in Lost. Extra-ordinary actions/events happen to seemingly ordinary people. While no real proof exists, Danielle could have had military/paramilitary/survivalist experience AND may be a researcher, which would explain her story as researcher and survivalist. Hence yours and my assumptions are pure speculations and neither is able to say the other is incorrect yet.

I think you're getting a little defensive. I wasn't trying to attack you personally, just the idea that we were "women-bashing" and saying a woman can't survive. Plenty of mysterious and unlikely things have happened on the island, but the last time I looked, they were trying to keep it as based in reality as they could. Therefore, if we can't try to figure things out based on "usual" behavior or occurances then this entire message board is useless, correct? Are we to speculate based on what usually DOESN'T happen in real life?

If you are a survivalist, then you would know you could function reasonable so at 7 months pregnancy if need be and barring complications. Do you think that women of centuries past got a free ride to not do hard labor (ie their chores)? Not doing the work would mean harsher existence and possible death.

Again, sure, I'd function fine at 7 months and would be able to do it all by myself. But would I knowingly put myself in danger of actually having to use my survival skills at 7 months along? Hell no. I would have to be incredibly stupid or selfish to go risking my child's well-being so I could go play in the woods (or on the ocean). And perhaps you didn't notice, but the death rate while carrying babies has dramatically decreased since women didn't have to do such grueling physical labor anymore, since they stopped having to live a survivalist lifestyle. That kind of lifestyle while pregnant puts you in grave danger, and the women who you're speaking of knew that. Women used to die all the time before and during childbirth; risking a big long trip on the ocean is putting yourself in direct threat of this.




So it is believable that Locke becomes the Great White Hunter but Danielle is a meek wilting lilly that should have died? That is pretty sexist even for a non-feminist as myself. People I have met in my life are proof positive that there are some mean, lean fighting machine women out there.

Dude, you totally missed the boat on that one. Umm......Locke was preparing for a walkabout trip for years and years before he got on the plane. He was an expert in survivalism. Seriously, are you watching the same show we are? Did you miss that episode, where it explains how Locke became that hunter? Because we haven't seen anything that suggests Danielle has any of that kind of past experience. And seriously---I'ma woman, why would I be sexist against women? You're getting really defensive, man,; chill out, it's just a discussion.





I agree with your examples of Danielle's inconsistencies. Add to that the ruthlessness with which she physically abuses Sayid and her astute powers of observations similar to how the Others/Hostiles behave. You may be correct. Once a liar, always a liar. Right? The money is on Danielle to be lying about other events as well. I hope Sayid makes sure there is a firing pin in the rifle Danielle leaves behind for igniting the dynamite! But until there is more proof, either your or my speculation could be true. Without more evidence then it is foolish to discount either one at this point based on what's "usual" or limited experience with differrent personality/character types.

Okay, so why are we discussing anything about this show? I'm not supposed to speculate based on what we know about her and what we know about the real world? What else am I supposed to speculate on---the answers they've given us?!?! Seriously, yeah, we could both be right or both be wrong, but that's not the point----we're trying to figure this out before it's revealed in the show. That may be foolish, but if it is, why are you here arguing your point?

[Boogieman]

I believe you also suffer from the other poster's "one size fits all" way of thinking.

Why would it be impossible for someone brought up in a family that were avid campers, outdoorsmen/women, naturalists, live off the land types that would take her natural curiousity, engendered and nurtured by her upbringing, and focus it on some form of research involving nature?

Maybe Danielle grew up in a male centric environment where she was treated as "one of the boys" and therefore learned all these traditionally male oriented activities.

Maybe she is ex-military or ex-government-sponsored covert operations.

I'm not saying you're wrong and I'm correct. I'm saying none of us know what her story is yet. Until more is revealed, discounting a very plausible explanation is intellectually dishonest, especially behind the facade of cultural norms. Afterall, we are dealing with human intellect and emotion, not a scientific fact such as whether the cable to the Looking Glass Hatch/Station is an anchor or carry enough power for its operation.

My comments have nothing to do with Danielle being female. I was generalizing about scientists/engineers. Generalizations are like assumptions, and we all know what happens when we assume. Never have I said that Danielle COULD NOT learn these skills, or that she could not survive 16 years... I just pointed out evidence that leads me to believe she is lying.

What she is hiding is something we cannot answer now, but methinks S4 will have more Danielle / Jacob / Island Mystery now that she is becoming an active member of Lostie society. ... And the truth about lying might rear it's ugly head in S4.:D

[ZIA]

See? All the interest in Danielle is awesome. This is one of the best threads going right now.
Zia

[weiwuwei]

I'm not saying you're wrong and I'm correct. I'm saying none of us know what her story is yet. Until more is revealed, discounting a very plausible explanation is intellectually dishonest, especially behind the facade of cultural norms. Afterall, we are dealing with human intellect and emotion, not a scientific fact such as whether the cable to the Looking Glass Hatch/Station is an anchor or carry enough power for its operation.

Ah, but there you go: everyone was discussing that cable in terms of "real-life", they were saying: it can't be an "anchor" because the platform is bolted to the ocean floor, and it can't be an electrical cable because it would be silly to expose it and it's not big enough for that anyways. So, they used real-life logic to deduce that it was neither, and lo and behold, the producers have now confirmed in the podcast that it's a communications cable! So, real-life logic DOES work on this show, and it's not silly to use the logic of reality to deduce what's going on, even without the "official story" about it!

[Boogieman]

Originally Posted by stratman http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/images/002/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1551988#post1551988)
I'm not saying you're wrong and I'm correct. I'm saying none of us know what her story is yet. Until more is revealed, discounting a very plausible explanation is intellectually dishonest, especially behind the facade of cultural norms. Afterall, we are dealing with human intellect and emotion, not a scientific fact such as whether the cable to the Looking Glass Hatch/Station is an anchor or carry enough power for its operation.


Since when do we take any "story," as told by a character, at face value? This is usually the least reliable data, and is usually proven false through flashbacks. TPTB are so consistent with this mechanism that we all come to expect it now. I am not saying the story is impossible, just improbable considering the evidence.

[weiwuwei]

Wait, I just thought of something, and forgive me if the theory has been presented on these boards before: perhaps Danielle was originally on the island with Dharma or what have you, and she was traveling abroad to recruit new scientists to the island? In that way, her story (and the producers' verification that she did shipwreck on the island 16 years ago) is still partly true, and it makes more sense that she would be on a boat while pregnant if she was coming back to the island, where her OBGYN was. Perhaps she brought them there, and the ship did run aground, but it was no big deal and they just rowed to shore and got to work, and then the purge happened and that's when she fled to the woods, to escape the purge?

Or perhaps she brought them there under false pretenses and the shipwreck was staged, and her "crew" was an experiment to learn about Lostaway behavior or test out stuff on them? Maybe once they got to shore, she disappeared and left them alone in the jungle and then carried out the experiment on them? Maybe it was the TLE "virus", and that's why the purge happened---Ben and the Natives thought it was abhorrent, what happened to the people they tested it on, and so they purged Dharma from the island so they couldn't do that crap anymore? And Danielle managed to escape their capture, and threatened to tell the outside world, so Ben took her baby and told her they'd kill Alex with the virus or whatnot if Danielle ever left or tried to tell anyone, so she stayed and has done what they told her when they needed her to screw with the Losties? And Ben told her he'd give Alex back if she leads them to the radio tower so he can [insert evil plan here]?

Just speculation.....but my "big wall web of Lost theories" is starting to come together, and it's inspiring me......

[Verite Garde]

See? All the interest in Danielle is awesome. This is one of the best threads going right now.
Zia

I don't know. I was just going to post that the thread has gone to hell in a hand basket.

The reason a pregnant astronomer only two months along was restricted was because the most miscarriages occur during the first trimester.

Pregnant women in their second and third trimester who have careers in any area usually try to work for as long as they can.

Rousseau was on a scientific expedition and do we even know what kind of vessel she was on? How big? How long the rig was on this expedition?

She could have been only been slightly pregnant when the vessel embarked and thought she'd be home before she was due.

Then it ran aground. Why is anyone speculating that she would be a bad mother to be on the expedition when pregnant so therefore she's lying about why she is on Craphole?

She also was probably highly trained in many areas of survival beforehand, and not only that, never expected to be stranded.

Rousseau might be lying about it all, but the reason for my being open to that fact is not because a women would never put her unborn child in such danger.

How the hell would she have known the ship would run aground?

Also, the "ship" with scientists probably had good medical facilities and what if when she embarked on the expedition she didn't even know she was pregnant at all?

[weiwuwei]

Okay, here's the story straight from Danielle's mouth:


SAYID [working on the music box]: And how did you come to be on this island, Danielle?
[Danielle sighs and looks like she doesn't want to talk about it, but she will as if for the price of the music box.]
DANIELLE: We were part of a science team.
SAYID: A science team armed with rifles? Was Robert on the team?
DANIELLE: Yes.
SAYID: And Alex, was he, too?
DANIELLE:Our vessel was 3 days out of Tahiti when our instruments malfunctioned. It was night, a storm, the sounds. The ship slammed into rocks, ran aground, the hull breached beyond repair. So, we made camp, dug out this temporary shelter. Temporary. Nearly 2 months we survived here, 2 months before --
SAYID: Your distress signal? The message I heard, you said, "It killed them all."
DANIELLE: We were coming back from the Black Rock. It was them. They were the carriers.
SAYID: Who were the carriers?
DANIELLE: The others.
SAYID: What others? What is the Black Rock? Have you seen other people on this island?
DANIELLE: No, but I hear them. Out there, in the jungle. They whisper. You think I'm insane.
SAYID: I think you've been alone for too long.
[FLASHBACK]


I'm still trying to find the episode where she talks about having the baby....anyone remember which one that was? It would save me a lot of searching.....

[CON-FLICKT]

We got Nikki and Paolo flashback but no Danielle... That's B.S.! They would give us too many answers to our "poke in the dark" theories...

[stratman]

Oh boy. This is going to be long.

Sure, great, fine. A woman would sail and be courageous----again, I'm not questioning the bravery of women. I'm questioning the reasonable decisions of an expecting mother.

What is reasonable to you is different for someone else. Different strokes for different folks. This is something you understand or not.

Actually, I'm friend with a woman who is an astronomer, and had a trip to Hawaii planned to go to an observatory there for a week. She had to cancel the trip altogether because she found out she was pregnant and they don't like pregnant women to go above a certain altitude (the observatory is up on a volcano). She's only a few months along (like 2); so yes, I do know women whose scientific study involves trips and the outdoors. And yes, there are women who boat and camp and climb during their pregnancy; the point is, you're supposed to stay close to your OBGYN in case you go into early labor, which happens all the time. If you ask any "real life" pregnant woman, scientist or survivalist, if she would risk her baby's life for her career or for anything, she'll say no. She'll say screw the research, I'm not chancing losing my baby. So, if you know women who have traveled abroad during their last trimester, I would ask: what was so important that they were willing to risk their child's life to travel?

I am a physician and have performed pre- , peri- and post-partum care. A pressurized plane cabin is not the problem per se - being sedentary is the usual culprit and potentially leads to blood clots. Extended automobile rides carry the same issue. The risk is reduced by getting up and walking on a regular basis. One could catch a communicable disease in the close quarters and re-used air of a pressurized cabin, but I don't think that would typically be the reason not to fly. Take offs, landings, air sickness (vomiting) and turbulence may precipitate labor, more so in someone further along than 7 months, though the risk is quite small indeed. High risk pregnancies, on the other hand, DO present with women with increased risk for flying, but to my knowledge, Danielle has no history of being high risk. High elevations are a problem if you are not acclimatized, otherwise, how would you explain the delivery of healthy babies by indigenious mountain peoples in Asia and South America?

Of course asking pregnant women if they would knowingly endanger their baby's life you would get/expect a "no" answer. Otherwise they would be deemed mentally suspect and require psychiatric care. But, if you include context in your rigid "black vs white" line of questioning then you will see there is a world of gray in the calculation of what is risky behaviour and to what degree, low to high, that risk is. A well conditioned athlete may continue to exercise at a high level compared to someone that was not conditioned at the start of the pregnancy. I personally know/knew women that exercised at what would be previously considered dangerous levels and delivered term healthy babies. It's context and knowing risk profiles, not blanket statements, in this case. And I'm not even talking about the psychological profile of the individual yet. Some women are just "tougher" than others and take on more activity and risk. It's a BIG world with MANY possibilities.

One other thought: Very pregnant Claire was flying to Los Angeles! From the looks of things, including the size and health of the baby at birth, I'd say she was significantly more than 28 weeks along in her pregnancy. She had no qualms about the safety of her baby and flying. I know it's ridiculous to use fiction to make fact. I'm just pointing out that your comments do not fit "everyone" and are exclusionary of other "real life" possibilities.

I think you're getting a little defensive. I wasn't trying to attack you personally, just the idea that we were "women-bashing" and saying a woman can't survive. Plenty of mysterious and unlikely things have happened on the island, but the last time I looked, they were trying to keep it as based in reality as they could. Therefore, if we can't try to figure things out based on "usual" behavior or occurances then this entire message board is useless, correct? Are we to speculate based on what usually DOESN'T happen in real life?

Defensive - I would agree there is a component to that, but it is bourne from my desire to keep it real. If you were familiar with my posts overall, and I certainly do not expect you to be, then you would see that I have been steadfast in examining events through the prism of real world or scientific knowledge. I became a little jaded when Smokie and some other events were introduced due to TPTB mantra of everything can be explained by science as we know it today. I don't think so! Exactly what is "usual" or "real" concerning Smokie, Jacob, uninjured survivors of a mid-air jet disintegration, etc? Do people usually go to Australia to get drunk, visit their bastard child and die? Do scorned lovers run away to Phuket and get the usual nasty tattoo? Do fugitives usually escape the USA to Australia to be caught by a marshall that purposefully brings multiple pistols and her prized toy airplane with him? Do young women usually get tickets half way around the world to dump a baby on people they don't know? Is your neighborhood devoid of children because they were, as usual, all kidnapped?

Debating over a cable's purpose is easy because there is a foundation of hard science that must be conformed to in order for the cable's function to be "real". Human behavior, on the other hand, follows no rigid science and can be whatever it is. Behaviour is predicated on past experience and present cognition such that one may be able to predict action/thought if given enough historical knowledge, but we don't have that data yet for Danielle.

Your, or anyone else's, stance that Danielle cannot be what I proposed simply because she does not fit the norms of your experience, and in the vacuum of corroborating facts, could be construed as naive at best or a form of cultural and gender "racism of lowered expectations" at worst. Having a gestalt about Danielle's backstory is fine, indeed, healthy and encouraged by this forum. Stating that your gestalt is the correct way in the overwhelming paucity of facts currently known is one-dimensional and arrogant.

Again, sure, I'd function fine at 7 months and would be able to do it all by myself. But would I knowingly put myself in danger of actually having to use my survival skills at 7 months along? Hell no. I would have to be incredibly stupid or selfish to go risking my child's well-being so I could go play in the woods (or on the ocean). And perhaps you didn't notice, but the death rate while carrying babies has dramatically decreased since women didn't have to do such grueling physical labor anymore, since they stopped having to live a survivalist lifestyle. That kind of lifestyle while pregnant puts you in grave danger, and the women who you're speaking of knew that. Women used to die all the time before and during childbirth; risking a big long trip on the ocean is putting yourself in direct threat of this.

- You are projecting your values and experiences onto someone else. Danielle is not you.

- The higher death rate of babies and mothers in the old days occurred with or without hard labor. Strenuous activities while pregnant is not necessarily contraindicated for the entire pregnancy when context is considered. What is the definition of "hard" labor and what is the physical condition and prepregnanvy exercise/work routine of the woman. Current low death rates are additionally due to improved pre-natal care, improved nutrition, improved medical knowledge, improved sanitation, immunizations, etc. I never said a pregnant woman should do everything they did prior to pregnancy or even throughout their pregnancy. There should be a "tapering" of strenuous activity as the pregnancy progresses, later on particularly. But a well conditioned pregnant woman who is not high risk can continue her activities, exceptions withstanding, well into and possibly throughout (keeping in mind the "tapering" policy mentioned before) the pregnancy.

- Sailing/boating is not strenuous activity unless you are working the sails. A short term (several days) trip on a boat is not absoultely contraindicated for a low risk pregnant woman. Doing research on land or ocean, as well as hiking, operating firearms, setting traps or bending over are not absolutely contraindicated. Carrying a captured Ben to the Losties probably would not be wise. Low risk 7 month pregnant woman are not mandated to stay in close proximity to their physicians and can fly and travel in cars with appropriate breaks for walking around.

Dude, you totally missed the boat on that one. Umm......Locke was preparing for a walkabout trip for years and years before he got on the plane. He was an expert in survivalism. Seriously, are you watching the same show we are? Did you miss that episode, where it explains how Locke became that hunter? Because we haven't seen anything that suggests Danielle has any of that kind of past experience. And seriously---I'ma woman, why would I be sexist against women? You're getting really defensive, man,; chill out, it's just a discussion.

- I don't recall any proof that Locke was a survivalist or had prepared for his walkabout for years. He was referred to as Colonel, though sarcastically, by his boss while playing a board game. He did bring a mess of knives in a suitcase to Australia but his walkabout was in an air-conditioned bus loaded with tourists going on an guided tour of the outback where the main danger is spending more money than you want on tourist traps. Locke only displayed one occasion of backbone throughout all of his flashbacks - confronting his deadbeat dad - and ended up essentially losing his backbone (paralysis) in the process. The pot farm was where he farmed, not hunted, and was in fact told he was a farmer and not a hunter by the undercover agent who had a detailed knowledge of Locke's life and pyschological makeup. Living in a hippy commune does not make one a survivalist though it does give some credibility to your argument. There is no doubt that Locke had some knowledge and/or skills, such as throwing knives and hunting wild boar, but so did the kids in the movie "Lord Of The Flies". Were they trained hunters and survivalists? Point being it's literary license on TV and 'do it or die' time in real life. Dynamite handling could have been learned from Artz. In another website I read that Eko called him a hunter which could be explained as Eko's conclusion resulting from knowing only the island persona of Locke and not his actual lifelong "Walter Mitty" persona back in the real world.

- I don't profess omnipotent knowledge with Lost. Please reference or give links to your statements about Locke's abilities and expertise. I do like to learn (re-learn) about Lost.

- There are antifeminist in the world. I'm not making that up. Camille Paglia is a feminist who's considered an anitfeminist. Confusing, no? Some of your statements, what a woman can and can not do, boardered on what some call antifeminism. In fact you were just expressing your point of view developed from your experience which I have argued is limited as defined by my own (limited) experience.

Okay, so why are we discussing anything about this show? I'm not supposed to speculate based on what we know about her and what we know about the real world? What else am I supposed to speculate on---the answers they've given us?!?! Seriously, yeah, we could both be right or both be wrong, but that's not the point----we're trying to figure this out before it's revealed in the show. That may be foolish, but if it is, why are you here arguing your point?

Speculation is the heart of this forum. We are all trying to figure this show out in advance of full knowledge. Agreement is not discussion. Also, where is the discussion when someone uses an argument that undermines their own premise ( we don't know the facts, keeping things real yet events are not real, using 'usual' as benchmark to explain the unusual) while saying another's argument is invalid just because it doesn't fit their paradigm of the world. Bluntly, I didn't care for your rigidly held, exclusionary methodology concerning Danielle (I'm right because that's how pregnant women and researchers are supposed to behave) particularly since we are dealing with human behaviour and not hard science.

I stated early on, based on what we do know, either theory could be correct. You did not. Ironically, I am leaning towards your angle that there is something more sinister concerning Danielle. Still, you shouldn't dismiss out of hand a very plausible theory based upon actual real world occurrences and not expect some heat. It's the principle of the matter.

[stratman]

I don't know. I was just going to post that the thread has gone to hell in a hand basket.

The reason a pregnant astronomer only two months along was restricted was because the most miscarriages occur during the first trimester.

Pregnant women in their second and third trimester who have careers in any area usually try to work for as long as they can.

Rousseau was on a scientific expedition and do we even know what kind of vessel she was on? How big? How long the rig was on this expedition?

She could have been only been slightly pregnant when the vessel embarked and thought she'd be home before she was due.

Then it ran aground. Why is anyone speculating that she would be a bad mother to be on the expedition when pregnant so therefore she's lying about why she is on Craphole?

She also was probably highly trained in many areas of survival beforehand, and not only that, never expected to be stranded.

Rousseau might be lying about it all, but the reason for my being open to that fact is not because a women would never put her unborn child in such danger.

How the hell would she have known the ship would run aground?

Also, the "ship" with scientists probably had good medical facilities and what if when she embarked on the expedition she didn't even know she was pregnant at all?

Thank you for injecting sensible possibilities.

[stratman]

Okay, here's the story straight from Danielle's mouth:

Need for firearms:

Three words: HIGH SEAS PIRACY.

Another possibility: Research that places one in proximity to dangerous wild animals.

Another possibility: danielle is everything you suggest.

Sure. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

At the moment, we don't even know if we're dealing with a cigar.

The rest of Danielle's speech is a plot hole that has been left adrift. Maybe TPTB will resolve it by series end.

On different note: A big clue may be Danielle's statement "Our vessel was 3 days out of Tahiti...". This relative location of the island coincides with the story given by the pilot of Oceanic 815.

Thanks to weiwuwei for the refresher.

[stratman]

I'm still trying to find the episode where she talks about having the baby....anyone remember which one that was? It would save me a lot of searching

Season 1, Episode 23 - Exodus Part 1

A couple of excerpts:

DANIELLE: Our ship went aground on this island 16 years ago. There were 6 of us -- my team, 6. At that time I was already 7 months pregnant. I delivered the infant myself. The baby and I were together for only 1 week when I saw black smoke -- a pillar of black smoke 5 kilometers inland. That night they came -- they came and took her -- Alex. They took my baby. And now, they're coming again. They're coming for all of you.

-------------------

[They come to a piece of black fabric hanging from a branch.]

DANIELLE: Le Territoire Fonce.

JACK: The Dark Territory.

DANIELLE: The Black Rock is not far. This is where it all began -- where my team got infected -- where Montan lost his arm. We must move quickly.

-------------------

Kills her "infected" shpmates including her significant other, delivers her own baby by herself and survives for 16 years on an inhospitable freaky island?

She's one tough broad!

[weiwuwei]

What is reasonable to you is different for someone else. Different strokes for different folks. This is something you understand or not.

Fair enough---that's really all any of us can argue by here!


A pressurized plane cabin is not the problem per se - being sedentary is the usual culprit and potentially leads to blood clots. Totally agree----I was really speaking of the fact that women are not supposed to fly or travel during the last trimester because of the risk of early labor happening for ANY reason, not necessarily travel-induced, because if that happened they would want the OBGYN that was familiar with her history to be able to make the tough decisions necessary during a premature birth/situation. I really don't know how travel could affect the pregnancy, only that they don't like to find out!

And, my friend was told not to go to Hawaii because the altitude of the observatory was the issue---not the flying or traveling. Just making an example that I do, indeed, know scientific types, even one or two that were pregnant scientists (contrary to the previous statement).

Of course asking pregnant women if they would knowingly endanger their baby's life you would get/expect a "no" answer. Otherwise they would be deemed mentally suspect and require psychiatric care. But, if you include context in your rigid "black vs white" line of questioning then you will see there is a world of gray in the calculation of what is risky behaviour and to what degree, low to high, that risk is. Perhaps I misspoke; I meant that if you ask any pregnant woman if she had a really great opportunity to advance her career/interests but that required she take a boat trip (which, like you said, can be fraught with danger such as pirates, shipwrecking, etc), she would most likely say that the advancement wasn't worth the possible risk that the trip would involve. Pregnant mothers tend to look at the "better safe than sorry" side, from what I've found. That's all I was trying to say.

One other thought: Very pregnant Claire was flying to Los Angeles! From the looks of things, including the size and health of the baby at birth, I'd say she was significantly more than 28 weeks along in her pregnancy. She had no qualms about the safety of her baby and flying. I know it's ridiculous to use fiction to make fact. I'm just pointing out that your comments do not fit "everyone" and are exclusionary of other "real life" possibilities.But that's exactly why Jack asked her about it---because a pregnant third-trimester woman usually does not fly or travel at all. She said her doc said it was okay, and he didn't look like he believed it, and for good reason: docs *usually*, *in my experience*, only make that exception when the mom is traveling to go give her child away, therefore wherever she's traveling to will be the place where she intends to have the child, therefore going into labor while traveling is not an issue in that case. I think that actually supports my argument---Jack's reaction to Claire traveling.


Defensive - I would agree there is a component to that, but it is bourne from my desire to keep it real. If you were familiar with my posts overall, and I certainly do not expect you to be, then you would see that I have been steadfast in examining events through the prism of real world or scientific knowledge. I became a little jaded when Smokie and some other events were introduced due to TPTB mantra of everything can be explained by science as we know it today. I don't think so! Exactly what is "usual" or "real" concerning Smokie, Jacob, uninjured survivors of a mid-air jet disintegration, etc? Do people usually go to Australia to get drunk, visit their bastard child and die? Do scorned lovers run away to Phuket and get the usual nasty tattoo? Do fugitives usually escape the USA to Australia to be caught by a marshall that purposefully brings multiple pistols and her prized toy airplane with him? Do young women usually get tickets half way around the world to dump a baby on people they don't know? Is your neighborhood devoid of children because they were, as usual, all kidnapped? Again, fair enough. I simply respect the fact that you're using logic-based arguments, not poo-poo-ing it! Sorry if I offended or came across harsh; I really don't mean anything personally! And yes, one of the hardest things about this show, I think, is trying to figure out where the hell they're applying real-world logic and where they're playing that "it's pseudo-science" card!


Everything between the last quote and the next quote, I agree with you!



- I don't recall any proof that Locke was a survivalist or had prepared for his walkabout for years. In the ep "Walkabout" in the office with the tour guide, he says he's "been preparing for this for years, I probably know more about this than you."

- There are antifeminist in the world. I'm not making that up. Camille Paglia is a feminist who's considered an anitfeminist. Confusing, no? Some of your statements, what a woman can and can not do, boardered on what some call antifeminism. In fact you were just expressing your point of view developed from your experience which I have argued is limited as defined by my own (limited) experience. Yeah, I'm familiar, unfortunately! I really think the entire concept of "feminist" or "antifeminist" is silly, because it connotes a sense of "pro women's rights" or "anti women's rights" when really, some of us love the fact that we have the right to go to work, but resent the change in our society to one where we have no choice but to work unless we're moms (and even then, many of us will bash each other for staying at home to do that). But I guess I need to go back and try to read my posts in this light, because I really thought I was making it clear that I was speaking about people in general, and not just women. I think a man or woman is equally capable of the "scientist" stereotype I was referring to: most scientists, IMHO, would be at a disadvantage when it comes to survival skills than, say, a redneck. Scientists can use their copious intelligence and logic to figure things out, but many times in nature you just don't have the time for deductive reasoning, you know? So I guess I need to figure out how I didn't get that across in the way I intended, and what I need to do differently!



Bluntly, I didn't care for your rigidly held, exclusionary methodology concerning Danielle (I'm right because that's how pregnant women and researchers are supposed to behave) particularly since we are dealing with human behaviour and not hard science.Again, I guess I'm going to need to figure out where I made the mistake in trying to put forth my argument. That was certainly not what I was intending for you to derive from my statements.

I stated early on, based on what we do know, either theory could be correct. You did not. Ironically, I am leaning towards your angle that there is something more sinister concerning Danielle. Still, you shouldn't dismiss out of hand a very plausible theory based upon actual real world occurrences and not expect some heat. It's the principle of the matter.Yep; fair enough. I get heated in my debate; I try to make concessions, but admitting that I'm likely wrong is not a debate style I ever got the logic of! I'll admit that we may all be fools and have no idea what they're really doing, but when it comes to debate, I can only argue if I think I'm right. Otherwise, if I really don't know, I do the "you may be right, but maybe..." line. Here, I feel I'm right. So, fair enough!

[stratman]

I was really speaking of the fact that women are not supposed to fly or travel during the last trimester because of the risk of early labor happening for ANY reason, not necessarily travel-induced, because if that happened they would want the OBGYN that was familiar with her history to be able to make the tough decisions necessary during a premature birth/situation. I really don't know how travel could affect the pregnancy, only that they don't like to find out!

And, my friend was told not to go to Hawaii because the altitude of the observatory was the issue---not the flying or traveling. Just making an example that I do, indeed, know scientific types, even one or two that were pregnant scientists (contrary to the previous statement).

- Third trimester pregnant women should refrain from flying, not "not supposed" to fly. It is an important differentiation and involves risk vs benefit thinking.

- Unfortunately in today's modern society, and alltogether too often, the OB a women chooses to deliver her baby is not the OB that actually does. Fortunately, a low risk, uncomplicated delivery (the vast majority of births) is not rocket science and any properly trained person (note I didn't just say physician) can perform the role without knowing you from Adam, or in this case Eve.

- I failed to comprehend what you were saying about altitude. My bad. Since I don't know the altitude your friend was planning on residing in nor her medical history, I can not speak intelligently on her specifics. What I can do is give you a link with information that contains reasonable information and in easily digestible format: http://www.bodyresults.com/E2pregnantalt.asp. This website also touches on topics of exercise and pregnancy, another topic we discussed. The gist of altitude and pregnancy is that it can be perfectly safe to mother and baby depending upon medical history and pertinent details of the trip. It would be ridiculous to say no pregnant women living at sea level could fly to Denver for a vacation or permanent relocation.

Context, context, context.

Perhaps I misspoke; I meant that if you ask any pregnant woman if she had a really great opportunity to advance her career/interests but that required she take a boat trip (which, like you said, can be fraught with danger such as pirates, shipwrecking, etc), she would most likely say that the advancement wasn't worth the possible risk that the trip would involve. Pregnant mothers tend to look at the "better safe than sorry" side, from what I've found. That's all I was trying to say.

I completely agree with your statement given the qualifiers "most likely" and "tend to" and "from what I found".

My point is that Danielle is not your average woman. Her calculation of risk vs benefit may not be the same as yours or most women. I wouldn't define her by our cultural norms.

Following Verite Garde suggestions, Danielle may have been been on her way from research to home so that her pregnancy and delivery could be monitored appropriately. Maybe she and her doctor felt she was up to the task of a week or two on research trip. Doctors outside of the USA are less encumbered by legal pitfalls and more likely to be less defensive in their practice of medicine. While the mechanics of medicine are universal, the art of medicine is varied and cannot fit into a singular cultural norm.

But that's exactly why Jack asked her about it---because a pregnant third-trimester woman usually does not fly or travel at all. She said her doc said it was okay, and he didn't look like he believed it, and for good reason: docs *usually*, *in my experience*, only make that exception when the mom is traveling to go give her child away, therefore wherever she's traveling to will be the place where she intends to have the child, therefore going into labor while traveling is not an issue in that case. I think that actually supports my argument---Jack's reaction to Claire traveling.

Hmm. I am not making it up that women can and do travel, fly, exercise, etc for a variety of reasons in their third trimester, with the blessing of their doctor, and, do it all safely. I don't know what else to say that will help you understand and accept it. I refer you to your own physician for more information.

In the ep "Walkabout" in the office with the tour guide, he says he's "been preparing for this for years, I probably know more about this than you."

Good one!

From that episode a few excerpts:

LOCKE: We know there are wild boar on the island. Razorbacks, by the look of them. The one's that came into the camp last night were piglets, 100, 150 pounds each. Which means that there's a mother nearby. A 250 pound rat, with scimitar-like tusks, and a surly disposition, who'd love nothing more than to eviscerate anything that comes near. Boar's usual mode of attack is to circle around and charge from behind so I figure it'll take at least three of us to distract her long enough for me to flank one of the piglets, pin it, and slit it's throat.

LOCKE: The ground here has been rooted up. That's how boars get the majority of their food, they dig. Afterwards they generally wallow in the dirt, rub up against the trees, scoring them with their tusks.

Yep. He sure has a lot of specific knowledge. Is it book knowledge or real world experience?

------------------------

[Randy walks in the break room.]

RANDY: Hallmark, huh? Tell me more about being a leader, Locke. While you're at it, tell me about this Col. thing. I cruised your file in human resources, you've never been in any of the armed forces.

LOCKE: I'm just playing a game, Randy. It's my lunch hour, I can play a game.

RANDY: Well, tell me, what's a Walkabout? [reading from a brochure]: "Experience the dream journeys of the fabled Australian Outback."

LOCKE: You have no right taking that off my desk.

RANDY: So, you wander around hunting and gathering food, right? On foot?

LOCKE: Not that you would understand, but a Walkabout is a journey of spiritual renewal, where one derives strength from the earth. And becomes inseparable from it. I have vacation days, I'm going, Randy. I've already made a reservation.

GL12: Wow. John you're really doing it, huh? You tell Helen yet?

RANDY: Helen? Well, what's this Locke, you've actually got a woman in your life.

LOCKE: That's none of your business.

RANDY: What is it with you Locke? Why do you torture yourself? I mean, imagining you're some hunter? Walkabouts? Wake up, you can't do any of that.

LOCKE: Norman Croucher.

RANDY: What? Norman what?

LOCKE: Norman Croucher. Norman Croucher, double amputee, no legs. He climbed to the top of Mt. Everest. Why? It was his destiny.

So, no military record in his human resources file and plenty of "Walter Mitty-esque" behaviour by Locke.

---------------

[Travel agency office in Australia.]

AGENT: The Walkabouts we arrange here are not just a stroll through the park. It's trekking across vast stretches of desert, rafting bloody treacherous waters.

LOCKE: Look, you've got no idea who you're talking to. I'm well aware of what's involved, believe me. I probably know more than you on the subject.

AGENT: In any case, it's a trying ordeal for someone in peak physical condition, let alone. . .

LOCKE: Look, I booked this tour a month ago, you've already got my money. Now, I demand a place on that bus.

AGENT: You misrepresented yourself. . .

LOCKE: I never lied.

AGENT: By omission, Mr. Locke. You neglected to tell us about your condition.

LOCKE: My condition is not an issue. I've lived with it for 4 years. It's never kept me from doing anything.

AGENT: Look, unfortunately it is an issue for our insurance company. I can't keep the bus waiting any longer. It isn't fair to the other people.

LOCKE: Hey, don't talk to me about fair.

AGENT: I can get you on a plane back to Sydney on our dime. That's the best I can do.

LOCKE: No. I don't want to go back to Sydney. Look I've been preparing for this for years. Just put me on the bus, right now, I can do this.

AGENT: No, you can't.

LOCKE: Hey, hey, don't you walk away from me. [The wheelchair reveal]. You don't know who you're dealing with. Don't ever tell me what I can't do, ever. This is destiny. This is destiny. This is my destiny. (yelling) I'm supposed to do this, dammit. Don't tell me what I can't do. Don't tell me what I can't. . .

You were correct that Locke has been in preparation for some time (if we are to believe what he says). I was wrong about the degree of activity and danger involved in the walkabout.

Locke had book knowledge but not actual experience. As a smart guy he retains the knowledge and then puts it to use in the "real world" of the island. He blossoms from a Walter Mitty wannabe to a person that actually lives out his fantasy. Rare indeed.

One thing that is an undeniable is the drastic change to Locke since his arrival on the island. He is now a man with a purpose, a plan and the cojones to carry it out. What this represents has yet to be revealed.

[weiwuwei]

I'm glad we've come to an understanding of each other's positions! This is the intellectual stimulation we need to solve this mystery, eh? I guess the producers themselves said it (somewhere, I forget), this show would never have survived before the age of the internet! If we all weren't here to fill each other's gaps and be each other's sounding boards, we'd never be able to follow what the hell was going on!

Go us!

I guess the conclusion we've come to is that Danielle is not to be trusted (until we get that damn flashback episode for her!) and she *might* have had more "to do with" the Purge than we think, given the suspicious coincidence of the dates of her *arrival* and the Purge itself (judging by Alex's age and Ben's suspected age). I know Alex is with Ben (from the preview of tonight's ep) at the radio tower, and I assume Danielle is as well, so that should be interesting! Maybe this thread will be totally irrelevant or blowing up tonight! We shall see!

[Boogieman]

I guess the conclusion we've come to is that Danielle is not to be trusted (until we get that damn flashback episode for her!) and she *might* have had more "to do with" the Purge than we think, given the suspicious coincidence of the dates of her *arrival* and the Purge itself (judging by Alex's age and Ben's suspected age).

In a nutshell, this is what the thread should center on. Glad you two have made amends. Danielle's story could be completely as described on-air thus far, but I wanted to discuss the reasons I felt otherwise.

Stratman, I completely agree with you approach to Lost. I hope we get "real world" answers and plausible scientific explanations for the majority of our questions. I will be willing to accept a couple minor psuedo-science or sci-fi things because it's TV, but the core of the show should keep it "real."

Back to Danielle...

SAYID: Your distress signal? The message I heard, you said, "It killed them all."
DANIELLE: We were coming back from the Black Rock. It was them. They were the carriers.
SAYID: Who were the carriers?
DANIELLE: The others.
SAYID: What others? What is the Black Rock? Have you seen other people on this island?
DANIELLE: No, but I hear them. Out there, in the jungle. They whisper. You think I'm insane.
SAYID: I think you've been alone for too long.
[FLASHBACK]

As a counter to my own skeptical theories on Danielle's truth telling, perhaps she did go to the Black Rock with her team, heard the voices, her team did die of the sickness and this is the "bad experience" she had in the "dark territory."

Perhaps the sickness was Ben and The Others (Richard and gang) using the gas canisters to kill Danielle's team. This would make sense as it isolates her, making for an easy abduction of Alex from a vulnerable Danielle!

[stratman]

As a counter to my own skeptical theories on Danielle's truth telling, perhaps she did go to the Black Rock with her team, heard the voices, her team did die of the sickness and this is the "bad experience" she had in the "dark territory."

Perhaps the sickness was Ben and The Others (Richard and gang) using the gas canisters to kill Danielle's team. This would make sense as it isolates her, making for an easy abduction of Alex from a vulnerable Danielle!

It's absurd that no Lostie focuses on the obvious like "What is this infection?". Afterall, Danielle had to kill her shipmates who were "infected". Anyone else here want to know what to look out for and how to avoid getting "it"? You'd think Jack would be all over this since he's a doctor.

My thoughts on Danielle and her motivations for lying:

1) Unlike Hurley and Kate, who give it up to the "enemy" in a New York second, Danielle intelligently "lied" about her knowledge on anything to do with the island inhabitants until the "new" strangers, the Losties, proved themselves to be trustworthy. She's had to evade and escape the Hostiles to stay alive. Would you trust some dude you've never seen before on an island full of people that have done nothing but bad things to her and her crew? Combine that with 16 years alone and you get a half nutbar, half black ops individual.

2) Danielle's choice of words "infected" and "carriers" denotes a degree of specificity to what occurred, if we are to believe she is a researcher or an educated individual. Maybe these words take on a different meaning in her native tongue. We cannot know that at this time. In the context presented, to me it means some communicable disease or process which can be "carried" or transmitted by one human to another human. A carrier may also not be suffering from the disease, just a vector for transmitting the disease, but there is no proof of this as of yet. What Danielle refers to as infection may also not be bacterial or viral related but may be some other sort of process such as radiation, parasitic or a science fiction.

Remember that Desmond enquired about sick members of the Losties as well. Also, the Dharma juice Desmond injected on a regular basis. And there is that hatch with "QUARANTINE" sprayed on the interior aspect. These are plot lines that are adrift that I am expecting closure on by series end.

I say that Danielle did a pretty good job of keeping it together with Sayid.

Things that do look suspicious about Danielle:

1) Lying

2) Good condition clothing

3) Batteries that still work

4) Still has ammunition

5) Avoided seeing alledged daughter (though this could be a defensive mechanism to avoid feeling pain)

6) Giving Ben up to the Losties

7) Multiple trips covering long distances to get volatile, nitro dripping dynamite without blowing up like Artz (this also is a point in her favor)

8) No questioning how her distress signal could still be transmitted even though she claims the Others have control of the tower (OK. This is something I'm suspicious about)

9) Treats Sayid brutally and without reservation, just like the Others do with the Losties (I've always thought that the Others treat the Losties like research animals - compassionately but with moral, ethical and evolutionary superiority. When the test animal is behaving they are nice but will instantly subdue with overwhelming force to secure the animal properly and then return to pleasant without residual animosity.)

10) If I recall correctly, she had medicine handy that she injects into Sayid and knocks him out. Tropical temperatures and 16 years aged is stretching believability for a medicine to last. I hope Sayid has had his tetanus updated and doesn't get a nasty infection because Danielle didn't clean his skin before injecting.

[keairaii]

They should ask Danielle where she buried the people that were with her.

[rvturnage]

Ah, but there you go: everyone was discussing that cable in terms of "real-life", they were saying: it can't be an "anchor" because the platform is bolted to the ocean floor, and it can't be an electrical cable because it would be silly to expose it and it's not big enough for that anyways. So, they used real-life logic to deduce that it was neither, and lo and behold, the producers have now confirmed in the podcast that it's a communications cable! So, real-life logic DOES work on this show, and it's not silly to use the logic of reality to deduce what's going on, even without the "official story" about it!
Just to clarify...the producers have not confirmed in the podcast that it's a communications cable. Also, podcast info is considered spoiler, so please spoiler tag any discussion about it...

What I gather from their comments is that what type of cable is irrelevant. The important thing is they used it as an intriguing plot device to forshadow the introduction The Looking Glass Station two seasons ago, and now they wanted Charlie to go into the station, so they had him go in and not just cut a cable. They needed a way for Charlie to overcome his fear of water, established 2 seasons ago and re-iterated in his Greatest Hits Flashback, to become a hero and save Claire and the others. They needed the a way to locate the underwater station. The cable fit that bill. Worrying about what kind of cable it is and if it's large enough for power or tethering is irrelevant to it's what TPTB used it for. A plot device.

I've highlighted the relevant parts to my post:
why not take out a pair of hedge trimmers and like cut the wire? Wouldn't that do the trick?

Cuse: Possibly. But it's also possible that cable wasn't the sole source of power for the looking glass. It could have been a communication cable.

Lindeloff: i also probably think if Desmond came up to Charlie and said "I see you cutting the cable and then you get sand in your eye...

Cuse: It probably wouldn't be so dramatic

Lindeloff: People wouldn't really watch the finally.

[IMLOSTRU?]

I think it is safe to assume that if she was communicating about the Black Rock, then that was her original research mission. "That's where it all started" she says.

But what where the keys to?

1. Something in or on the Black Rock?
2. Shackles??
3. A discovered Hatch??
4. The motor to her vessel?

[scotpgot]

Wow I like this thread. Some thoughts come to mind, some sane - others not.

1. In her radio message (according to our translation) Danielle is saying "Help US" over and over. If they've all been killed and Danielle is alone, who is "US"?

2. The name Brennan freaks me out. ("Brennan" took the keys). Apparently Brennan is Tom's last name (Kate's Love). That's pretty weird. Also, I have a lot of faith in our audio experts here, but I wonder if they gave it another listen would it sound at all like Bukhanin(sp?)? Just wonderin'.

3. Do we know how much time passed between when Danielle's team died and when she set up the message. I mean, it SOUNDS like an emergency/distress call, which would be sent immediately following some type of emergency, but maybe it wasn't. Maybe Danielle's team died, a lot of time went by, something else happened, THEN she set up the distress call. Is that possible?

4. Do we trust Sayid's calculations 100% that the message has been running for 16 years? (Just askin'.)

5. This thread is the first time I've seen "carriers" used (and actually paid attention). What we know now, I would wager a guess that carriers/whispers are the same people, and hostiles/Others are other people.

6. It seems to me to MAJOR things that we really don't know a lot (or hardly ANYTHING, really) about are the Black Rock and Danielle. I wonder much, if at all, they're connected.

[rvturnage]

The name was definately Brennan, and has been confirmed by TPTB.

[scotpgot]

Wow, ask for an audio expert, get an audio expert.

Thanks, rv.

[IMLOSTRU?]

Wow I like this thread. Some thoughts come to mind, some sane - others not.

1. In her radio message (according to our translation) Danielle is saying "Help US" over and over. If they've all been killed and Danielle is alone, who is "US"?

2. The name Brennan freaks me out. ("Brennan" took the keys). Apparently Brennan is Tom's last name (Kate's Love). That's pretty weird. Also, I have a lot of faith in our audio experts here, but I wonder if they gave it another listen would it sound at all like Bukhanin(sp?)? Just wonderin'.

3. Do we know how much time passed between when Danielle's team died and when she set up the message. I mean, it SOUNDS like an emergency/distress call, which would be sent immediately following some type of emergency, but maybe it wasn't. Maybe Danielle's team died, a lot of time went by, something else happened, THEN she set up the distress call. Is that possible?

4. Do we trust Sayid's calculations 100% that the message has been running for 16 years? (Just askin'.)

5. This thread is the first time I've seen "carriers" used (and actually paid attention). What we know now, I would wager a guess that carriers/whispers are the same people, and hostiles/Others are other people.

6. It seems to me to MAJOR things that we really don't know a lot (or hardly ANYTHING, really) about are the Black Rock and Danielle. I wonder much, if at all, they're connected.

The cop?

[scotpgot]

The doctor. The one with the airplane.

Linky linky (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Tom_Brennan).

[Boogieman]

2. The name Brennan freaks me out. ("Brennan" took the keys). Apparently Brennan is Tom's last name (Kate's Love). That's pretty weird. Also, I have a lot of faith in our audio experts here, but I wonder if they gave it another listen would it sound at all like Bukhanin(sp?)? Just wonderin'.


"Took the keys stands out as ODD! Could this be the Failsafe Key? Or the key found around Horace's neck in "Man Behind the Curtain"? VERY interesting connection if it is, and more evidence toward Danielle = Dharma!.

The Brennan find is also thought stimulating as I still find myself wondering what was such a big deal b/t Kate and Brennan's little toy plane that was worth robbing a bank and killing for!

[rvturnage]

"Took the keys stands out as ODD! Could this be the Failsafe Key? Or the key found around Horace's neck in "Man Behind the Curtain"? VERY interesting connection if it is, and more evidence toward Danielle = Dharma!.
I don't recall a key around Horaces neck...when did we see that?
The Brennan find is also thought stimulating as I still find myself wondering what was such a big deal b/t Kate and Brennan's little toy plane that was worth robbing a bank and killing for!

There's a thread in theories about the Brennan/key connection...a good one, if I recall...it's been a while since I read it. Here's a link (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22730&highlight=brennan+keys).

[IMLOSTRU?]

I don't recall a key around Horaces neck...when did we see that?

There was a screen cap that made it appear he was wearing a key around his neck but it could also have just been a necklace of some sort.

[Hodgepodge]

Moving to the Mira Furlan - Danielle forum for further discussion.

[Boogieman]

Season 1, Episode 23 - Exodus Part 1

A couple of excerpts:

DANIELLE: Our ship went aground on this island 16 years ago. There were 6 of us -- my team, 6. At that time I was already 7 months pregnant. I delivered the infant myself. The baby and I were together for only 1 week when I saw black smoke -- a pillar of black smoke 5 kilometers inland. That night they came -- they came and took her -- Alex. They took my baby. And now, they're coming again. They're coming for all of you.

-------------------

[They come to a piece of black fabric hanging from a branch.]

DANIELLE: Le Territoire Fonce.

JACK: The Dark Territory.

DANIELLE: The Black Rock is not far. This is where it all began -- where my team got infected -- where Montan lost his arm. We must move quickly.


Could Danielle be reffering to Dr.Wickman/Dr. Candle???

[Hodgepodge]

Could Danielle be reffering to Dr.Wickman/Dr. Candle???That's a good question. I'm beginning to believe Danielle and her crew were a part of Dharma. And, were sent in search of the island when the "incident" occurred. Now, whether this "incident" was the purge we witnessed, is definitely a possibility.

Having their boat run aground they could've found Dr. Crandle/Dr. Wickman hold up in one of the hatches. Enlisted his help to try and send a message to the Initiative, which resulted in them getting sick. Still not sure about this supposed sickness. We have yet to see any manifestations of an illness that would render the patient a death sentence.

I'm curious whether we need to know when/how Dr. Crandle/Dr. Wickman lost the use of his arm?

[Brian]

I'm curious whether we need to know when/how Dr. Crandle/Dr. Wickman lost the use of his arm?

Interesting. I'm going to have to tag the rest of my response.....

We will indeed find out what happened to his arm. The word is, "How Dr. Candle/Wickman lost his arm will be explained....graphically. However, we haven't heard when we're supposed to see this.

[Boogieman]

Methinks a polar bear eating an arm off is more likely for Dr. Wickman/Candle than the "sickness" or "incident".

[Boogieman]

Wow, it has been awhile since I have revisted this thread.

I'm surprised nobody here has pointed out the obvious, though. Danielle created her distress call, and the tower was LATER controlled by the Others. Remember Danielle telling Sayid that "they control it now"? Why was the DI not in control of the radio tower when Danielle first made the transmission?

I had a thought about what Danielle meant by "control". She probably knew the signal was being blocked somehow. This is the control Ben had over the tower. I do not see a transcript posted of TTLG, but I remember Mikhail was somewhat surprised and angry that the two girls in the looking glass were not "on assignment in Canada" and were blocking the signal.

Mikhail is one of the few in Ben's group that most would identify as highly possible to be a survivor of the DI. His time as a loner in the communications hatch could lead to a connection with Danielle. Remember she backed away before Mikhail could identify her when Sayid and Kate came knocking.

I am still leaning toward Danielle being a former DI, which I believe to be the people on the freighter for S4 to be the same. The DI is coming back to take control of the island... Danielle was an attempt that went wrong several years ago... perhaps leading to the "Incident".

[Homer Noodleman]

I've long argued that Danielle represents a group that was on the island prior to the Dharma Initiative. From the little we can suss out of the transmission, her expedition was likely an attempt to seize control of the island back.

I've also tried to point out something from the Season III Finale, but it hasn't gotten much traction. Take a look at the radio shack again. Notice anything missing? There isn't a single Dharma logo to be seen, and we all know Dharma brands everything -- right down to their toothpaste tubes. That is not a Dharma facility in my opinion.

I suspect Danielle probably can make a good guess as who sent that freighter.

[cricer]

I've long argued that Danielle represents a group that was on the island prior to the Dharma Initiative. From the little we can suss out of the transmission, her expedition was likely an attempt to seize control of the island back.

I've also tried to point out something from the Season III Finale, but it hasn't gotten much traction. Take a look at the radio shack again. Notice anything missing? There isn't a single Dharma logo to be seen, and we all know Dharma brands everything -- right down to their toothpaste tubes. That is not a Dharma facility in my opinion.

I suspect Danielle probably can make a good guess as who sent that freighter.

There's no sufficient timeline to suggest Danielle was on the island prior to the Dharma Initiative, but I do agree with your opinion that she was in fact on the island first.

As for the radio shack... have we seen Dharma logos on the exterior of any of the stations? From what I recall, we haven't, we only found them on the interior. I haven't seen the finale in a while, but maybe you could fill me in here - do we see the inside of the radio shack?

[RangerMel]

I've also tried to point out something from the Season III Finale, but it hasn't gotten much traction. Take a look at the radio shack again. Notice anything missing?



As for the radio shack... have we seen Dharma logos on the exterior of any of the stations? From what I recall, we haven't, we only found them on the interior. I haven't seen the finale in a while, but maybe you could fill me in here - do we see the inside of the radio shack?

What? There's a Radio Shack on the island? :flowers2:

[cricer]

What? There's a Radio Shack on the island? :flowers2:

Season three finale.

[Homer Noodleman]

cricer,

I don't mean that Danielle was necessarily on the island earlier, but that the group that sent her expedition had been on the island. In the text if the full radio transmission she refers to places on the island, like the Dark Territories, that makes it clear she thought the recipients of the message would be familiar with what she was talking about. I don't believe her group stumbled across the island by accident, they landed on the island with a purpose.

The hatches usually have Dharma symbols on the doors. Also, there are no -- none, zero, zip nada -- Dharma logos inside of the radio shack. That really struck me when I watched those scenes (largely because I've argued for some time that the radio tower predated Dharma so I was curious to finally see it).

[cricer]

cricer,

I don't mean that Danielle was necessarily on the island earlier, but that the group that sent her expedition had been on the island. In the text if the full radio transmission she refers to places on the island, like the Dark Territories, that makes it clear she thought the recipients of the message would be familiar with what she was talking about. I don't believe her group stumbled across the island by accident, they landed on the island with a purpose.

The hatches usually have Dharma symbols on the doors. Also, there are no -- none, zero, zip nada -- Dharma logos inside of the radio shack. That really struck me when I watched those scenes (largely because I've argued for some time that the radio tower predated Dharma so I was curious to finally see it).

Okay, that helps clear things up. So you think that she and her people were sent by a pre-Dharma group that was already familiar with the island? Interesting theory, not really sure if I have enough evidence to make a firm stance on this point, whether to agree or disagree. However, I think she was probably confused and disoriented when she first made the radio transmission, and I highly doubt that stating recognizable landmarks would be her primary concern. Oh; and everybody who lands on the island is there for a purpose. ;)

Right, I forgot that whole scene with the radio shack! It has been a while, so bear with me here. Judging by the fact that there are no Dharma symbols you are either correct in saying that the radioshack does not belong to Dharma, or it is a station not meant to be recognized as one of their own. Personally, I believe the radio shack was built before Dharma got to the island, so in that I agree with you.

[RangerMel]

Radio Shack sucks. I went there today to buy a replacement cord for my GBA and they didn't have one. :mad:

[sgtdraino]

I've long argued that Danielle represents a group that was on the island prior to the Dharma Initiative. From the little we can suss out of the transmission, her expedition was likely an attempt to seize control of the island back.

The timing of her arrival on the island would seem to fit more with a DHARMA team sent to investigate a loss in communications, due to the purge. The purge seems to have happened before Danielle arrived, because Ben does not yet have Alex at the time the purge happens.

I've also tried to point out something from the Season III Finale, but it hasn't gotten much traction. Take a look at the radio shack again. Notice anything missing? There isn't a single Dharma logo to be seen, and we all know Dharma brands everything -- right down to their toothpaste tubes. That is not a Dharma facility in my opinion.

It is interesting that it doesn't seem to have any insignia. However, according to the ARG:

The radio tower was part of the DHARMA initiative, used to broadcast the core values of the Valenzeti Equation.

It broadcast The Numbers that DHARMA was studying, a transmission that Danielle replaced with her own distress signal. Perhaps the tower was one of the earliest facilities built on the island, before the DHARMA insignia had evolved.

I suspect Danielle probably can make a good guess as who sent that freighter.

On this, I agree.

My question, more one of curiosity at this point, is this:

Has anyone done the final math on the total duration of the transmission at the time it was finally shut off at the end of season 3? Lostpedia's got something on it, but it doesn't look right to me. A calculation using the iteration we hear in The Pilot, compared to the final iteration number we hear in the season 3 finale, would give us a pretty exact accounting of how long the 815s have now been on the island.

[cricer]

The timing of her arrival on the island would seem to fit more with a DHARMA team sent to investigate a loss in communications, due to the purge. The purge seems to have happened before Danielle arrived, because Ben does not yet have Alex at the time the purge happens.



It is interesting that it doesn't seem to have any insignia. However, according to the ARG:

The radio tower was part of the DHARMA initiative, used to broadcast the core values of the Valenzeti Equation.

It broadcast The Numbers that DHARMA was studying, a transmission that Danielle replaced with her own distress signal. Perhaps the tower was one of the earliest facilities built on the island, before the DHARMA insignia had evolved.



On this, I agree.

My question, more one of curiosity at this point, is this:

Has anyone done the final math on the total duration of the transmission at the time it was finally shut off at the end of season 3? Lostpedia's got something on it, but it doesn't look right to me. A calculation using the iteration we hear in The Pilot, compared to the final iteration number we hear in the season 3 finale, would give us a pretty exact accounting of how long the 815s have now been on the island.

I would assume that if you are not willing to go by the length that the Losties say they have been on the island, no other means will provide an accurate reading of the exact length they have been on the island. Although I really don't think it's significant.

[melostmo]

2004 minus 16
do the math ..
Danielle's 16-yr Radio should still play 80s HITS
check stations for Village People..
'In the NAVY' :bump:

[TheBigCat]

Um...Village People was actually late '70s disco.

[melostmo]

Um...Village People was actually late '70s disco.

sorry,
I sometimes forget
we're dealing w/real world data :rolleyez:

[sweetsunray]

I'm thinking Danielle and her team were sent to the island on purpose, much like the freighter people now. Her lie to Sayid was not about the boat crashing imo, but about them happening on the numbers by chance and just being mere checking it out being curious. After all Naomi crashed with her helicopter.

The distress indicates she knows someone is on the receiving end, someone who knows about Black Rock. And perhaps that's all the offshore-player was after.

I don't think she was Dharma necessarily, and certainly never an Other since she became preggers off-shore.

That Ben took control over the Looking Glass to stop the tower message about the same time that Danielle altered the message, indicates he felt a high need to block outgoing messages, to keep Danielle from alarming anyone waiting for a message off-shore... just like he wanted to prevent the Losties from making the call with Naomi's sat phone.

Ben took over Otherville and purged most of Dharma prior to 1988, probably 21 December 1987 (his own birthday). Danielle would have arrived on the island around March or April 1988, and the distress message dates from April or May 1988. Also, for a little while at least it seem some Dharma survivors sheltered in caves before they died too (Adam & Eve in caves, as well as the two skeletons in the cave that later gets in habited by the polar bears... the hint the polar bear came later is the toy-truck in that cave, and similarity with Adam & Eve). Given that timeline it is quite possible Danielle's team were people sent by Dharma or affiliates to investigate the nature of what went wrong over those last months.

[Homer Noodleman]

From Jack's dating, Adam and Eve predate Dharma by about three decades.

[sgtdraino]

From Jack's dating, Adam and Eve predate Dharma by about three decades.

Yeah... but...

consider the source! ;)

[Boogieman]

I'm thinking Danielle and her team were sent to the island on purpose, much like the freighter people now. Her lie to Sayid was not about the boat crashing imo, but about them happening on the numbers by chance and just being mere checking it out being curious. After all Naomi crashed with her helicopter.

The distress indicates she knows someone is on the receiving end, someone who knows about Black Rock. And perhaps that's all the offshore-player was after.

I don't think she was Dharma necessarily, and certainly never an Other since she became preggers off-shore.

That Ben took control over the Looking Glass to stop the tower message about the same time that Danielle altered the message, indicates he felt a high need to block outgoing messages, to keep Danielle from alarming anyone waiting for a message off-shore... just like he wanted to prevent the Losties from making the call with Naomi's sat phone.

Ben took over Otherville and purged most of Dharma prior to 1988, probably 21 December 1987 (his own birthday). Danielle would have arrived on the island around March or April 1988, and the distress message dates from April or May 1988. Also, for a little while at least it seem some Dharma survivors sheltered in caves before they died too (Adam & Eve in caves, as well as the two skeletons in the cave that later gets in habited by the polar bears... the hint the polar bear came later is the toy-truck in that cave, and similarity with Adam & Eve). Given that timeline it is quite possible Danielle's team were people sent by Dharma or affiliates to investigate the nature of what went wrong over those last months.

Now, more than ever, this thread is being validated. The parallel between Danielle and the new team is strong! She was likely part of a picked team to come get Ben. Dharma must have found out that Ben is the culprit for The Purge. When she arrived, Ben must have stolen Alex from Danielle to use as leverage against her.

This also explains some of our earlier discussions in this thread about how Danielle new how to survive and protect herself so well, given that she was a scientist vs. military. It appears the new team is all scientists of some kind, and Abaddon had them go through a "training" to learn how to survive, etc.

Notice that any attempt to come on the island is being met with a Crash or severe turbulance... also note that the sub was alluded to have a "rough ride" as it enter onto the island. I assume this is the magnetic field at work!

[Acyre]

I've been waiting impatiently for a Danielle flashback episode ever since she was introduced. I'm dying to know what her real story is. Plus I want to see Montand lose his arm. Hopefully they'll give her a flashback next season. :crossfing
Dr. Marvin Candle of DHARMA lost his arm too. Coincidence?

[Boogieman]

After watching the Constant, it seems logical to think that Danielle's team could be part of the freighter people. Many of other posters have already picked up on this, but I thought I would also reference it within the context of this thread.

Brandon on the freighter? This is a similar name to Brandon/Brennan who "took the keys" in the earlier posts of Danielle's message in this thread.

Also, the most significant clue would be the "side effects" Desmond and Minkoski are having relating to mind travel. This seems to be the best evidence yet of Danielle's "sickness" she says led to her killing off her team. What if she is part of the existing freighter team and is caught back in time when she came onto the island? Maybe Minkoski's mind can't make it back in The Constant because Danielle is going to kill him thinking he is sick (with his mind leaping back to 16 years ago)?

At a minimum, I think The Constant draws good evidence that Danielle was part of the same group/purpose as the new freighters.

[Jinjur]

Yes, yes there was. This 'Brennan' got away and took the key...so Danielle said..
The way she said it makes me believe this 'Brennan' was the only member of her crew that got away and still lived. Probably ended up on that freighter somehow.
Also makes me believe that Danielle isn't who she tells she is either. When you recording a message for people to rescue you...why would you mention that a crewmember got away with some key?
And about that key... I doubt it's a real 'key'... I think it's a certain object..and I think that object is..... Kate' toyplane...
Because that toyplane belonged to Kate's childhood friend... who's name was.... Tom BRENNAN! And Kate REALLY wanted that toyplane... it's special..I tell you...







It's not even a matter of whether or not (Kate's)Brennen was killed in the car accident, because if this were indeed a true theory it wouldn't matter that he was dead only where the plane was at that time. Now I have always been a firm believer that Rousseau has always bended the truth to fit her ends, ecspecially when reviewing earlier seasons. Although I must admit the writers have done a good job of making her seem far more assimilated within the losties group as of late. However if I recall correctly, and I digress that I am going off memory alone, the Brennen we know is much younger, so either the time differential is working backwards from what some are claiming, or this just doesn't make sense.

HOMER I agree that it's strange that there are no DHARMA symbols to be seen on the shack although I think that because it asked if there was a hostile invasion in makes the appearnce of it being a dharma station a bit more concrete.

BTW Stratman...your quadruple posts makes me gag...bleh....when you have to post an answer to yourself that many times, chances are nobody is listening.

[Boogieman]

For the sake of the very interesting possibilities within this thread, let's pray Danielle is not dead!!! I hope she does not go the way of Eko, a deep and mysterious character with so much potential... gone.

[DarthKitty]

The thing that doesn't make sense in my mind is why would a woman who is 8 months pregnant go on a mission that is clearly full of danger? Not just the protecting the baby aspect, but I know when I was 8 months, it was getting hard to maneuver around. It has never made any sense to me.

[sgtdraino]

The thing that's blowing my mind, is that we now know she apparently arrived on the island 4 years before the purge happened!

Which brings into question when Ben took Alex.

[DarthKitty]

Things are really up in the air now. And with Danielle supposedly dead (which I hope isn't true), they need to tell her story now.

[Farmer Ted]

Things are really up in the air now. And with Danielle supposedly dead (which I hope isn't true), they need to tell her story now.

They do need to tell her story. That's why the killed her, so they wouldn't have to. Sucks, don't it?

[melostmo]

or maybe she just wanted to leave the series
it's not like they were giving her much dialog
or background

she never even had a flashbackfoward

maybe she just told JJ/TB to get LOST :rolleyez:

[DarthKitty]

I wouldn't blame her. But I think TPTB could have wrapped up her departure in a way that would satisfy fans. I'm sure she didn't walk into their office and say 'I quit' and leave.
We were ripped off.

[melostmo]

She seemed like a pretty 'tough cookie' to mo, and..
JJ/TB were not giving her the attention/role she deserved

so yeah, she may have walked right into their office and said
"HEY, if this is as big as my parts gonna get, I have other offers..
I want out of my contract.. i'm outa here"

happens ALL the time w/actors

LOST has never given characters a 'death' that satisfied fans DK !!! http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/images/icons/icon9.gif

writers are stupid

[Cranky]

:sigh:
After reading this thread, I now miss Danielle and her story even more. If the actress wanted to leave the show the writer's should have just had her disappear into the jungle again-not kill her off! That way they could have brought her back at anytime during season 5 or season 6 to do a flashback.
Alex was born 16 years ago. The purge happened 12 years ago.

This means Ben stole Alex and hid her with the natives for 4 years and then purged Dharma OR Danielle (in a bought of insanity) confused 1 week for 4 years, and actually had her child stolen when she was 4 years old, way after the Purge.


I like the first option.

[melostmo]

:sigh:
After reading this thread, I now miss Danielle and her story even more. If the actress wanted to leave the show the writer's should have just had her disappear into the jungle again-not kill her off! That way they could have brought her back at anytime during season 5 or season 6 to do a flashback.

that's why i think the actress
or her agent
may have very likely told JJ/ & company to get LOST ! ..

she had almost no dialog
her role petered out
and she 'shaped-up' another gig

*talks stage lingo*

[ISLANDLEA]

that's why i think the actress
or her agent
may have very likely told JJ/ & company to get LOST ! ..

she had almost no dialog
her role petered out
and she 'shaped-up' another gig

*talks stage lingo*

hi, i'll be damned > :) ...lea

see :

Spoiler: Danielle Rosseau... [Archive] - Lostpedia Forums (http://forum.lostpedia.com/archive/index.php/t-17224.html)

"But since it was Mila Furlan who asked to be written off "