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View Full Version : Ben's Plan "B"


Sawyer'sChick
05-24-07, 10:04 PM
It keeps bothering me - that Ben did not protest and manipulate his whole way up the rest of the hill to the tower. Then I got to thinking about how he made Locke feel like it was his idea to blow up the submarine and that Ben didn't want that to happen, when in fact he did. He just seemed way to calm overall during the last part of the episode.

So, Ben mixes the truth with manipulation to get people to do what he wants. I think he went up towards the tower to assure that Jack and crew would indeed contact the boat.

1.) Ben tells Jack that every single LIVING person on this island will be killed if the rescue happens. Leading me to think that some of the people are NOT living... in some way shape or form.
2.) Pointedly, he lets Jack know that Jack will be doing the same thing that Ben did years before.
3.) His orders to Tom are to shoot into the sand not to actually kill Sayid, Jin and Bernard. So, was this a bluff or a plan to infuriate Jack to the point of becoming MORE determined to do the opposite of what Ben is suggesting?
4.) He is somewhat quiet the rest of the way up the hill.
5.) He seems to shake when he is "off plan"... when he found out Charlie was in the Looking Glass he was shaking while talking on his walkie talkie. When he was talking to Tom on the beach... no shaking... hence, everything is going according to plan.
6.) Locke does not have the same agenda as Ben... When John says - YOU aren't suppose to do this... it is out of concern for Jack, not the island. Ben seems to be leading Jack every step of the way to do it.

I don't know... I am sort of thinking this is exactly what Ben's plan B might have been... To repurge the island of the "living".

Note: I think Richard, Locke, Mikhail, Jacob and probably some of the Losties are among who Ben may consider the "non living". Infact Charlie being killed after being hung do die... leads me to believe he too may be coming back in some form next year...

I think there will be some sort of futuristic way they can be alive but not, as this is not purgatory... but HOW INTERESTING!

bella24
05-24-07, 10:09 PM
3.) His orders to Tom are to shoot into the sand not to actually kill Sayid, Jin and Bernard.

Maybe I missed it but I don't remember hearing him say to shoot into the sand. I remember him saying "Tom, if you don't hear my voice in 1 minute shoot them"

adpreston1988
05-24-07, 10:13 PM
Maybe I missed it but I don't remember hearing him say to shoot into the sand. I remember him saying "Tom, if you don't hear my voice in 1 minute shoot them"

but they could have gone over the plan beforehand and that "shooting them" was just a bluff Tom knew Ben would pull.

You heard one of the others saying Ben has gotten crazy and why are they letting them live after they had just killed 7 of their own. And the other one saying we had to follow orders

I Like Freckles
05-24-07, 10:14 PM
Tom and one of the red-shirt Others at the beach discussed that Ben had ordered them to shoot three times into the sand as we got our first visual confirmation that the three captives were still alive.

adpreston1988
05-24-07, 10:14 PM
This actually makes a lot of sense. If Ben really wanted the LOSTIES not to get off the island he really would have shot Bernard, Sayid, and Jin. why not? But since he really wants Jack to make the call he just bluffed Jack into making him think they were dead to infuriate Jack even more to do the opposite of what Ben is saying.

Boogiewithstu
05-24-07, 10:15 PM
Maybe I missed it but I don't remember hearing him say to shoot into the sand. I remember him saying "Tom, if you don't hear my voice in 1 minute shoot them"

Ditto!!!

MagneticLocke
05-24-07, 10:16 PM
I was wondering this last night as well but, honestly, I've never seen Ben look so desperate in his life as when he was begging Jack not to make that call. He looked like a man staring death in the face. I know the guy's good, but I don't think he's THAT good.

What would be interesting here is to reread the transcripts from Man Behind the Curtain when Mikhail arrives at camp and tells Ben about Naomi. Maybe I'll go back and watch tonight.

Sawyer'sChick
05-24-07, 10:18 PM
Ditto!!!
Rewatch the episode...
The plan was to shoot into the sand. Tom wanted to shoot them for real, the other guy said they need to follow orders. It had to been planned before the act that Ben did in front of Jack.

MagneticLocke
05-24-07, 10:19 PM
Can anyone get their hands on transcripts from Man Behind the Curtain?

Edit - nm, here it is. Not sure much can be deciphered although Ben certainly doesn't seem so concerned, but that could very well have to do with the fact that he knows everything is jammed.

Mikhail Where is Ben! Where is he!
Ben I thought you were dead.
Mikhail I'm fortunate the pylons were not set to a lethal level.
Mikhail What is he doing here?
Ben It's all right.
Mikhail He's the one who tried to kill me!
Ben He's with us now. Where have you been Mikhail?
Mikhail I encountered several of his people in the jungle. They had an injured woman with them. Apparently she had just parachuted onto the island.
Ben What?!
Mikhail Her helo crashed into water. She says her ship is approximately 130 clicks to the West of us. She has a radio telephone.
Ben Where is she now?
Mikhail I assume they have taken her back to their camp.
Ben We'll be visiting their camp day after tomorrow, we'll take care of it then.
Mikhail Day after tomorrow? We have to go now.

Sawyer'sChick
05-24-07, 10:23 PM
I was wondering this last night as well but, honestly, I've never seen Ben look so desperate in his life as when he was begging Jack not to make that call. He looked like a man staring death in the face. I know the guy's good, but I don't think he's THAT good.

What would be interesting here is to reread the transcripts from Man Behind the Curtain when Mikhail arrives at camp and tells Ben about Naomi. Maybe I'll go back and watch tonight.

I know, that was my first read on Ben when I watched last night... but as I rewatched today... he read differently to me. The most stressed he has really been was when he found out John heard Jacob, and when he found out one of the losties ended up in the looking glass.

Ben doesn't get desperate, he gets unnerved.

lostchild
05-24-07, 10:41 PM
I like your thoughts except for the "non-living" part.
Other than that I do believe Ben still has a plan going on!

Sawyer'sChick
05-24-07, 10:46 PM
I like your thoughts except for the "non-living" part.
Other than that I do believe Ben still has a plan going on!

Yeah... the non living thing is not something I really buy into, except Ben said "Every single 'living person" on this island will be killed.

Why specify "living"?

Doesn't saying every single person will be killed imply that they were living?

I know it's a fine detail... just struck me - that's all.

lostchild
05-24-07, 10:48 PM
I'm just getting the feeling that the word "living" is just being used for heavy emphisis like

"I've been working all day"
as compared to
"I've been working for 24 Hours Straight"

Hodgepodge
05-30-07, 06:07 PM
Moving to the Michael Emerson - Ben forum for further discussion.