Is there nothing to say?

[Susan B Anthony]

Or is everyone so relieved that Ben survived the rumors of his death that they are speechless?

[Hodgepodge]

SBA, I was screaming when Jack was punching him. 'Kill that S.O.B. Jack!' With every punch. I was screaming so loud, I woke my kids. :nanabobo:

[snivellusfriend]

I'm relieved Ben wasn't killed; I was pondering Ben's motives and thinking about Jack's flashforward showing his future.

I think Ben is molding Jack into a leader, like himself, possibly so that Jack can take over for Ben if he is killed, which is why he pretended to kill Jin, Sayid and Bernard; Ben wanted to see if Jack could make the difficult decision of sacrificing a few of his people in order for the majority to be rescued. Jack has changed; He didn't like it when Sayid was hitting Ben in Season 2, yet he hit Ben in the Season 3 finale.

I believe Ben is still in control, despite appearing otherwise; He held out his hands as though to say he didn't have any weapons, which caused the Losties to become suspicious of him. I noticed Ben didn't protest when Jack took his walkie talkie nor try to fight Jack off or tell him to stop hitting him; He had his arms at his sides.

I feel sorry for Ben because it seems as though he can't be honest with anyone, not even his own people; Richard, who's known Ben for many years, didn't even know about the doll that Annie had given to him. I wondered why Ben didn't try to hide it, but I suppose he didn't because Richard had already spotted it and wouldv'e asked what it was, anyway. I believe Jack has learned to keep information from his group; He didn't want to tell Rose and Sun that their husbands had been "killed" because he wanted them to focus on the radio tower, to get off the island.


I wonder if TPTB are copying from the movie, "Cast Away;" It was released in 2000. It's about a man surviving on an island after his plane had crashed in the Pacific Ocean; He stays there for four years and trys to get off the island by writing, "Help," in the sand and building a raft. He gets rescued by a freighter ship and he comes home to find that his wife had married another man and now has kids; Their relationship is over, but he unexpectedly finds another woman.

It reminded me of Jack's future, when he and Kate were no longer together, and I'm wondering if the woman whose car had crashed will end up being with Jack; He seemed to feel better, almost like his usual self, when her kid had waved to him.

A Coldplay song also reminded me of Jack's future:
"Stood on a bridge, tied to the noose...You came along and you cut me loose"

If the woman hadn't been there, if her car hadn't crashed, (why was she driving at 2 a.m?) Jack wouldv'e killed himself; She saved him.

[Budman]

I think Ben's days are numbered.

If Jacob is communing with Locke, I think Ben becomes insignificant.

[Susan B Anthony]

SBA, I was screaming when Jack was punching him. 'Kill that S.O.B. Jack!' With every punch. I was screaming so loud, I woke my kids. :nanabobo:


You and my husband! Every time Ben comes on screen he is yelling, "They should have killed that b*****d when they had the chance!!" Personally, I think he's awesome. He is a great villain because he is 3-dimensional. I think the genocide flashback was done because TPTB had softened poor tumor-ridden, long-suffering father, spurned lover Ben up so much that people were forgetting how creepy he was as Henry Gale.

I hope they don't kill him off because he is one of the most interesting sources of conflict on the show, adding depth to the Jack/Locke dichotomy.

Snivellusfriend, I'm not sure I agree with your assessment of the Ben/Jack relationship. I don't see Ben as molding Jack into a leader to replace him. The clear person to replace Ben is Locke, and Ben is doing everything possible to keep that from happening.

I think Ben realizes that Jack is the de facto leader of the castaways, and he knows manipulating Jack effectively manipulates the whole group.

I'm not sure why he ordered that Sayid & co. not be shot. At least according to the movies I watch, the thing to do would be kill one of them (for real or for pretend) and then threaten to kill another unless he complies. Once Jack thinks they are dead, his motivation to cooperate is gone, replaced by a motivation to pummel Ben repeatedly in the face. Why do you think Ben didn't just order them shot for real?

[snivellusfriend]

Why do you think Ben didn't just order them shot for real?

I believe Ben didn't want them to be shot because he wanted Jack to continue to do the opposite of what he says and trick him into calling Naomi's people, like how he manipulated Locke to blow up the submarine; After believing that Ben had killed his friends and finding out that this was a lie, he said to Ben, "The mistake was listening to you." So, the Losties will be blamed for doing these things while Ben is safe from blame.

[Sawyer'sChick]

I completely think that things are working out the way Ben wanted them to go AFTER his original plan got thrown out of wack thanks to Charlie and Juliette. If you watch him come unglued and then reglue himself together during the episode... He is shaken up big time when he realizes that Charlie is in the Looking Glass and Juliette has betrayed them. BUT... he physically stops shaking as he starts piecing a new plan together. Read my "plan B" post if you would like to see that discussion. I just got bumped over here... and did not get thoroughly discussed in the general forum....

Ben is the best character to love to hate... and he adds allot to this show! He is notorious for protesting and antagonizing the Losties into doing exactly what he wants them to do. Remember Locke blowing up the submarine...? The way he manipulated Jack and Locke in the hatch? He does what he does... very well!