LOST Hiatus Rewatch NOW! (05/27/09-06/03/09)-S1E3: Tabula Rasa

[Brian]

This is the discussion thread for the LOST-TV Hiatus Rewatch - Season 1 Episode 3 , "Tabula Rasa"

Written by : Damon Lindelof

The original (or as close to original as exists) thread for this episode can be found here (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6139).

General questions about the LOST-TV Hiatus Rewatch can be posted in the LOST-TV Hiatus Rewatch thread (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37370).

Episode Description:

Jack tries to save the Marshal, and Kate comes to terms with his death. Sawyer attempts to euthanize him.

[catnap]

Obviously this is not a new idea but the thing that struck me the most in Tabula Rasa was the intimacy between Kate and the Marshall. No question in my mind there was something other than just the fugitive/marshall relationship between them. He was wearing a wedding ring in the car chase scene and I think him using that hand to "shoot" at her was supposed to show it off. However we now know that the person she was married to was not the Marshall. She seems too young to have had more than one marriage but you never know! Anyway she seemed like she was going to kiss him and I felt her questions about his dying came from concern for him and not for herself. Thoughts?

Also Jack said twice that I counted that he had to get the Marshall some water. :)

[jadingirl]

Question: Where was Kate's mugshot taken? It said Harrison Valley Police Dept on it I think so was that in Austrailia?

[Des02]

I agree if this was the first time seeing Tabula Rasa you would really think there is more to the story than cop/fugitive he seems to really despise her. Maybe later there will be something. Could he be Tom’s (wasn’t that the name of the guy she married?) father?
And knowing everything she has done wouldn’t she know how to dismantle a gun? Was she playing innocent when asking Sayid how to take it apart? (holding it on Sawyer after the polar bear incident)
I know its only been 3 years but everyone looks so differently! A bit younger and have changed their looks over the years… for the most part a lot better now than then. I think they could have avoided the problem with Walt growing so much if they had initially said his age was around 12

[yung23]

remember to look for monkeys !

(those little guys are out there somewhere!)

[catnap]

Question: Where was Kate's mugshot taken? It said Harrison Valley Police Dept on it I think so was that in Austrailia?

Someone looked this up in the original Tabula Rasa thread and came up with Potter County PA for where this dept. is. So the mug shot took place back in the US

[jadingirl]

Thanks Catnap!

[catnap]

Sure thing! Also noticed the Marshall died quickly after Jack saying he would bleed out for hours after Sawyer shot him in the chest. Did Jack go in and put him out of his misery after all? I can't picture Jack doing that but something happened!

[Maestra]

Again, I've loved going back and watching. I had forgotten a lot of the little backstories. Sawyer's first kill on the island (or at least attempted) was the marshall. He did it out of mercy + selfishness (not wanting to listen to him moan), not frustration (treefrog) or hatred (Cooper). The Michael/Sun/Jin dynamic was just beginning... Locke was already acting strangely (and I loved the music played during some of his scenes, to make us wonder about him), though I loved how he let Michael deliver Vincent to Walt. :)

[interplanetjanet]

Locke's first arrangement of an important island experience he thought someone should have.

Jack mercy kills the marshall. Something not in his nature. And I think Sawyer's failure at mercy killing (yet another thing the ol' hero did better than him) will underscore some of his coming obnoxiousness--one more reason to despise himself.

Jack's speech at the end can go two ways--they're here for a while (like, maybe up to a month) and won't worry about pasts, and they all died, effectively, when the plane crashed and get another chance. Or, you can see it as Jack believes they are here possibly forever. That'll go with his coming cavehunt; quite different from his later determination to get off the island. Jack may want to save everyone, but on the island. Getting off the island is Sayid's focus.

[Des02]

i think he did go in and kill him

[interplanetjanet]

The marshall seems way too personally invested in Kate. Of course, her bank robbery was out of proportion to the need to reclaim Tom's plane, and the fullpress federal pursuit way out of proportion to murder and insurance fraud, so that might just be the way they do Kate's story. Still, I keep expecting to learn there was a time she got away by getting awfully personal.

[Its Vanilla]

Episode 3: Random thoughts

The first "previously, on Lost..."

Boone's wanna-be hero attitude is rather annoying.

The first alias of Kate's we learn is Annie.

The watch thing is becomming sort of noticable. Sun had one that was clearly on display.

Kate gets Sawyer to do her dirty work.

Jack definately mercy-killed the marshall.

LOL at Hurley dumping the sand out of his shoe.

The future pairing of Charlie and Claire is hinted at.

Locke looks seriously creepy at the end.

Still no signs of Nikki or Paulo.

[interplanetjanet]

I've always interpreted Jack as mercy killing the marshall, and that it left a scar on his soul. As he gathers antibiotics, and someone asks him how many he'll use on the marshall, even when there may be no hope, and someone else may need them later, we see the Jack obsessed with saving people beyond reason that'll come back with Boone.

This ep had the first instance of Sayid wanting to keep something from the group, and Kate deciding that she needed to tell Jack. Not everyone, just Jack. (Something that drove me nuts at the end of this season when she snipes at Sayid that he might want to start telling the notJack people about Naomi, since she's taken care of telling Jack and her duty apparently stops there.) She's known him a day. But as we'll see with the doctor and cop she loved, he's very much her type.

A lot of communication issues. Started in the last ep, when Jack and Kate don't talk about what happened to the pilot, so as not to scare people. (But Charlie clearly does talk.) Then Sayid decides they should cover up the radio problem to not scare people, and Kate agrees (at least implicitly) but then tells Jack. The first strands in that web that eventually had them forced to put in lots of "look, someone told them about Patchy, okay?" scenes.

[11Rooster11]

The question that I have after the re-watch is...

Did Walt make it stop raining? We know that he is "special" and Michael had just finished saying "I'll look for Vincent when the rain stops."

What do you think?

[catnap]

I never noticed it the first time around but knowing what we do now I say definitely. Remember the bird and the window?

[iwanttobelost]

The question that I have after the re-watch is...

Did Walt make it stop raining? We know that he is "special" and Michael had just finished saying "I'll look for Vincent when the rain stops."

What do you think?


I was wondering the same thing when I saw that again but do you think he knows he can do this?

[Joenet]

I was wondering the same thing when I saw that again but do you think he knows he can do this?
Yes, but he may not know why... yet.

[bella]

And did he tell Locke about his secret?

[Unlocke Locke]

If you listen closely as the plane breaks apart, some of it sounds like the monster sounds.

I forgot that Hurley knows Kate is a criminal of some sort.

Why was Kate given the gun to be the protector at first camp on the mountain top? It was obvious that she wanted everyone to think she was inexperienced with guns, yet they all decide that she should be the one to have it? Was it because no one trusted anyone else with it?

Ray Mullen had the same fake arm as the Dharma guy on the same side.

The metal gun case came down out of the overhead compartment and hit the Marshall in the head. Did someone have the wherewithall to take it and put it under the seat? Isn't that where Kate and Sawyer found it when they went for a swim?

Kate seemed pretty calm when the plane was breaking apart. Calm enough to place the oxygen mask over the marshall's face and her own with hand cuffs on. I think if it were me and I turned to see the tail section of the plane ripping off I would have been paralyzed with fear, yet no one looked really terrified.

I think the only reason why it seems that the marshall and Kate have some sort of intimate connection is because he was after her for so long. At that point they knew each other pretty well.

I think it is great that we are doing this, I have forgotten so many things.

[Des02]

You know I think it’s a weird coincidence that there is so many references to prosthetics Ray, Marvin and Sam (wasn’t there anther one too?) you add people with disabilities to the mix and it gets a little more wide spread not saying it’s a big theory conspiracy or anything just one of the neat odd things that make Lost, Lost

[iwanttobelost]

You know I think it’s a weird coincidence that there is so many references to prosthetics Ray, Marvin and Sam (wasn’t there anther one too?) you add people with disabilities to the mix and it gets a little more wide spread not saying it’s a big theory conspiracy or anything just one of the neat odd things that make Lost, Lost

One of the men Danielle was with Montand she said he lost an arm around the black rock or near it by the dark territory. I just don't know if it all means anything.

[IwannaBlost]

---



Hmmmmm

[catnap]

Identity theft or innocent mistake???? :)

[iwanttobelost]

Hmmmmm

I really did not know sorry!!!!

[catnap]

Just joking around there's lots of names that are close to the same out there!


:)

[Annie]

Just a few things to add, it seems as if it all has been said.

Repitition--The farmer tells Kate "Everyone deserves a second chance."
Jack paraphrases on the beach something to the effect of we all will
have a new start.

Rain as they are returning from the communication expedition.

The first time we see Kate run w/o informing the person from whom she is
running (later it happens with the cop/husband).

Kate seems much more confident and authoritative than she does in later
seasons.

Charlie sharpies again and changes Fate to Late on his fingers.

I loved the montage at the end and especially liked the song they ran
over the montage (It'll All Wash Away, I think).

I was thinking of how much so many of the characters changed and
evolved throughout the series. Hurley, however, seems to remain consistent.
It was so great to see this episode again.

[ozanna]

Charlie seems to have a thing about leaving messages on his hands- first the LATE and FATE things on his fingers, and in the final episode his writing on his palm to Desmond.

[ozanna]

Had some interesting thoughts on Sawyer and his various killing experiences. The first time we actually see him kill is the polar bear episode. This was a spur of the moment action because the group was being threatened, poor Shannon nearly shat herself ! Sawyer just happened to have a gun handy and he did not hesitate to use it. It takes a fair bit of ammo and courage to kill a large animal with a handgun, specially when it is charging at you head on.
The second time was the marshall. This one was a conscious decision brought about by the fact that the man was in agony and was not going to improve, he was upsetting the rest of the losties with his agonized cries, and I think Sawyer suspected that he was somehow connected to, and a threat, to Kate, and this seemed like a good way of getting into her.....erm......good graces. Because this was premeditated by the time he got there he wavered and thus botched it, leaving hero Jack to put the poor guy out of his misery.
As we see later, when Sawyer attempted to shoot the shrimp guy in Sydney again it was premeditated and he couldn't go through with it , but after a talk with Jack's father and a few drinks, he was able to get the job done.

The next attempted kill was the boar which ransacked his tent, peed on his shirt and really pissed him off. But he decided not to kill it because it wasn't a threat to him or anyone else.

Sorry to ramble on - what I am getting at is it appears that Sawyer is not a cold blooded killer - yet. I'm not touching the end of S3 - thats a whole new ballgame. Hope this has not gone too far off topic.

[Darkrogue]

I've always interpreted Jack as mercy killing the marshall, and that it left a scar on his soul.

Yes, I agree. It sounds like we even hear death gurgles before Jack emerges from the tent.

As bitchy as it sounds, it almost seems like Shannon's classic "I wish he would just die, already" line voiced the unspoken opinion of everyone in the vicinity. No one was comfortable with his suffering.

This ep had the first instance of Sayid wanting to keep something from the group, and Kate deciding that she needed to tell Jack. Not everyone, just Jack. (Something that drove me nuts at the end of this season when she snipes at Sayid that he might want to start telling the notJack people about Naomi, since she's taken care of telling Jack and her duty apparently stops there.) She's known him a day. But as we'll see with the doctor and cop she loved, he's very much her type.

Again, it annoys me as well, but she clearly has a thing for such men, as you stated.

A lot of communication issues. Started in the last ep, when Jack and Kate don't talk about what happened to the pilot, so as not to scare people. (But Charlie clearly does talk.)

Yet another reason I love Charlie; with everyone clamming up and sharing nothing, he’s the chatterbox. He can’t keep his mouth shut, but who could blame him, considering everything that is going on? At least someone’s talking around here. ;) He never does it publicly, though. He waits until he's out of earshot from those he perceives as 'authority figures'. He's whispering behind the scenes.

General Observations:

Again, Kate is kind of a badass. She displays the right amount of vulnerability without being a complete, sniveling wreck. What happened?

People seem initially to gravitate towards both Kate and Sayid as leaders. For one thing, the individuals involved in the hike decide Kate should be in charge of the gun (a nice shred of irony, seeing as how back on the beach, Jack and Hurley are simultaneously discovering hints of her criminal past).

Sayid displays good leader potential as well, considering his speech upon their return to the beach. He is very take-charge, designating tasks and directing those around him. Jack has yet to officially assume the throne. That said, was anyone else annoyed by the fact that Jack automatically assumes Kate’s crime is murder?

We see a few hints of the inherent goodness within Jin, even if I still want Sun to slap him at this point.

I had forgotten about the scene between Jack and Sawyer in the wreckage of the fuselage. Nice setup with regard to character clashes here. Though it is evident that some of the actors are still in the process of “finding” the characters. I noticed this with Hurley as well.

Michael cracked me up during the sequence where he is searching for Vincent—and stumbles upon a bathing Sun.

Charlie and Locke’s first meeting occurs here, as well. It appears Charlie has gone through all the females with his “I’m-in-a-band” shtick. What’s even funnier is that yet again, he is ignored (even though Locke will later claim to be a fan).

Interesting how the marshal seems to want Kate to be the one to kill him—a classic result of rivalry.

Finally, it is this episode in which we are treated to the first “music-montage” ending. I miss those. :( The song (Wash Away) is nice as well, and is representative of the collective 'sins' these characters now have the chance to overcome.

Repeated dialogue:
Jack says “what did you do?” twice: once to Kate, when he arrives in the tent to find the marshal strangling her, and once to Sawyer, after the failed shooting. I like the layered meaning in the line, seeing as how the question of ‘what Kate did’ in the past hovers over the entire episode.

[ozchick]

I don't have too much to add here, but I did notice a couple things. I too think the marshal was a little bit in love with Kate. I wonder if we'll ever see that flashback.

When Kate and Ray were in the truck as Kate is leaving, the song playing was the first (but not last) time we hear Patsy Cline and the song is (appropriately) "Leavin' on Your Mind". The lyrics are:

If you got leavin' on your mind
Tell me now, get it over
Hurt me now, get it over
If you got leavin' on your mind

If there's a new love in your heart
Tell me now, get it over
Hurt me now, get it over
If there's a new love in your heart

Don't leave me here, in a world
Filled with dreams that might have been*
Hurt me now, get it over
I may learn to love again

(Repeat second verse)

Hurt me now, get it over
If there's a new love in your heart


Also, I loved the gorgeous shot of the fuslage with the storm in the distance, as Jack was headed in to look for meds.

[Hodgepodge]

...I think Sawyer suspected that he was somehow connected to, and a threat, to Kate, and this seemed like a good way of getting into her.....erm......good graces. Because this was premeditated by the time he got there he wavered and thus botched it, leaving hero Jack to put the poor guy out of his misery.
As we see later, when Sawyer attempted to shoot the shrimp guy in Sydney again it was premeditated and he couldn't go through with it , but after a talk with Jack's father and a few drinks, he was able to get the job done.

The next attempted kill was the boar which ransacked his tent, peed on his shirt and really pissed him off. But he decided not to kill it because it wasn't a threat to him or anyone else.

Sorry to ramble on - what I am getting at is it appears that Sawyer is not a cold blooded killer - yet. I'm not touching the end of S3 - thats a whole new ballgame. Hope this has not gone too far off topic.You know Ozanna, I'm wondering whether you maybe right about Sawyer's reason for trying to put the Marshal out of his misery. Remember, he always said he and Kate shared something in common. Remember the bording scenes in Exodus? I'm wondering if Sawyer passed their seats and saw the handcuffs?

I do agree Sawyer wasn't a coldblooded murderer before arriving on the island. You mention the botched euthanasia, and the shrimp guy. But he learned quickly. He did Tom without a second thought.

[bella]

My thoughts on Kate & the marshall. Definitely agree he's in love with her, but he hates her too. Yin and Yang. I think he loves everything that is tough and scrappy about her, and if she told him she loved him back, he'd throw it all away to run off with her. BUT, since his is an unrequited love, it turned to hate. Almost like he needed to catch her to put himself out of his misery. (I keep thinking greek tragedy, or shakespeare.) I really think that's why he wanted Kate to kill him, a tragic end to his tragic love story. It probably pained him more knowing she couldn't do it, that she had some kind of feelings for him. I wonder now that he's dead, is he one of the whisperers.

[Hodgepodge]

My thoughts on Kate & the marshall. Definitely agree he's in love with her, but he hates her too. Yin and Yang. I think he loves everything that is tough and scrappy about her, and if she told him she loved him back, he'd throw it all away to run off with her. BUT, since his is an unrequited love, it turned to hate. Almost like he needed to catch her to put himself out of his misery. (I keep thinking greek tragedy, or shakespeare.) I really think that's why he wanted Kate to kill him, a tragic end to his tragic love story. It probably pained him more knowing she couldn't do it, that she had some kind of feelings for him. I wonder now that he's dead, is he one of the whisperers.I'm definitely in agreement Bella. Remember when he tries to convince Jack of her crime. "Listen to me, no matter what she does - no matter how she makes you feel, don't you trust a word that she says. She will do anything to get away." This man knows from experience. He'd fallen hard!

[ZIA]

I'm definitely in agreement Bella. Remember when he tries to convince Jack of her crime. "Listen to me, no matter what she does - no matter how she makes you feel, don't you trust a word that she says. She will do anything to get away." This man knows from experience. He'd fallen hard!
I'm with you and Bella on this. It's just too obvious that he both loves and hates Kate. He seems like he's resigned (the further along we go in the show) to chasing her forever. He catches her; she manages to escape everytime. It kind of seems like a game to him.
Zia

[Annie]

I just couldn't figure it out about the Marshall and I think you have it Bella.
I was thinking about the phone call during the episode where Kate gets married. He told her he would stop pursuing her if she could demonstrate she could stay in one place. A federal Marshall letting a suspected or maybe convicted murderer off the hook if she would stay in one place?? He must have had a thing for her, an unrequited thing.

[Unlocke Locke]

This may be farfetched but I was thinking that maybe Kate and the Marshall have a child together. He has custody of course. I am also thinking that the child would be older now in Season 3 in the flashforward - as to who Kate is referring to as to who is wondering where she is.

[Hodgepodge]

This may be farfetched but I was thinking that maybe Kate and the Marshall have a child together. He has custody of course. I am also thinking that the child would be older now in Season 3 in the flashforward - as to who Kate is referring to as to who is wondering where she is.This is a little far out there for my taste Unlocke Locke. Although, I do think there's a good chance she slept with him. A ruse used to escape. Remember her relationship with that bankrobber from Whatever the Case May Be. She's not above using sex, if it gets her what she wants.

Speaking of escape! We know why Kate was heading to Los Angeles, but why was she in Australia in the first place? Remember what she tells Ray the morning he catches her sleeping in his barn? "I graduated from college and figured I'd see the world. Australia was top of my list so I hopped a flight to Melbourne but I don't know anybody here so I figured I'd walk for awhile, you know." Then remember the conversation between her and Sun, in the latters garden? "...I was on my way to Bali. I travel a lot. I was looking forward to exploring the island. Somehow I ended up on a flight to LA, instead." Was she trying to find the most remote place on the planet? I can think of places no one would ever think to look. Australia wouldn't be one of them. Homer has theorized she's looking for something. Not sure what that could be. Maybe I can get him to stop by and expound his theory. Oh Homer! :nanabobo:

[abcdxyz]

We know why Kate was heading to Los Angeles, but why was she in Australia in the first place?

That's a really good question, Hodgepodge, especially when they went to so much trouble to tell us why everyone else among the survivors was in Australia. I've wondered myself from time to time why she was there.

I think we were all expecting the tickets that Kevin gave her at their breakfast to be from Miami to Sidney, but of course, they weren't. That was a tease, I think, and most of us didn't really pick up on it. I hope it ends up being important to the story (why she was in Oz, that is), or else it will be just a narrative oversight, which would be disappointing.

[ZIA]

I just couldn't figure it out about the Marshall and I think you have it Bella.
I was thinking about the phone call during the episode where Kate gets married. He told her he would stop pursuing her if she could demonstrate she could stay in one place. A federal Marshall letting a suspected or maybe convicted murderer off the hook if she would stay in one place?? He must have had a thing for her, an unrequited thing.

Exactly. That was the scene that sealed it for me too. The whole "Holidays have come and gone and still I haven't heard from you, Kate..."
I shouldn't really quote that because it's not an exact quote, but you get the point.
Why would she even have his phone number?

[CLUCK]

Did Walt make it stop raining? We know that he is "special" and Michael had just finished saying "I'll look for Vincent when the rain stops."

What do you think?
i fully believe walt made the rain stop. this was the first display of his powers. some will argue that the polar bear was, but it doesnt make sense... as in it didnt happen near where he was. everything else (rain, bird, etc) was while he was there. plus the polar bears were already on the island.

Had some interesting thoughts on Sawyer and his various killing experiences. The first time we actually see him kill is the polar bear episode. This was a spur of the moment action because the group was being threatened, poor Shannon nearly shat herself ! Sawyer just happened to have a gun handy and he did not hesitate to use it. It takes a fair bit of ammo and courage to kill a large animal with a handgun, specially when it is charging at you head on.
The second time was the marshall. This one was a conscious decision brought about by the fact that the man was in agony and was not going to improve, he was upsetting the rest of the losties with his agonized cries, and I think Sawyer suspected that he was somehow connected to, and a threat, to Kate, and this seemed like a good way of getting into her.....erm......good graces. Because this was premeditated by the time he got there he wavered and thus botched it, leaving hero Jack to put the poor guy out of his misery.
As we see later, when Sawyer attempted to shoot the shrimp guy in Sydney again it was premeditated and he couldn't go through with it , but after a talk with Jack's father and a few drinks, he was able to get the job done.

The next attempted kill was the boar which ransacked his tent, peed on his shirt and really pissed him off. But he decided not to kill it because it wasn't a threat to him or anyone else.

Sorry to ramble on - what I am getting at is it appears that Sawyer is not a cold blooded killer - yet. I'm not touching the end of S3 - thats a whole new ballgame. Hope this has not gone too far off topic.

i honestly dont think that saywer is a COLD BLOODED killer. think about how traumatized he was by the events that lead to his parents death. yes, frank ducket was revenge, albiet the wrong guy. i probably would have done the same thing if i were him. theres a difference between murder and cold blooded murder.

This is a little far out there for my taste Unlocke Locke. Although, I do think there's a good chance she slept with him. A ruse used to escape. Remember her relationship with that bankrobber from Whatever the Case May Be. She's not above using sex, if it gets her what she wants.

Speaking of escape! We know why Kate was heading to Los Angeles, but why was she in Australia in the first place? Remember what she tells Ray the morning he catches her sleeping in his barn? "I graduated from college and figured I'd see the world. Australia was top of my list so I hopped a flight to Melbourne but I don't know anybody here so I figured I'd walk for awhile, you know." Then remember the conversation between her and Sun, in the latters garden? "...I was on my way to Bali. I travel a lot. I was looking forward to exploring the island. Somehow I ended up on a flight to LA, instead." Was she trying to find the most remote place on the planet? I can think of places no one would ever think to look. Australia wouldn't be one of them. Homer has theorized she's looking for something. Not sure what that could be. Maybe I can get him to stop by and expound his theory. Oh Homer! :nanabobo:

kate is just a fugutive, plain and simple. she had alot less of a chance getting cought anywhere other than in the united states. especially in the outback of australia.

now what i dont understand is the picture of her in the post office in the land of oz. why would they internationally distribute a pic of her??? ya, she killed her father and robbed a bank. but that doesnt require international attention. the marshall obviously knew that she was in oz BEFORE the farmer turned her in. but how did he know?

and also on the L.A. subject... why was she being transported there? she didnt rob the bank in LA, nor did she kill her father there. unless it was just a connecting flight. i understand that the marshall's unit/office could have been based oout of LA... but most of that government stuff (US MARSHALLS, CIA, FBI, etc) is east coast based.

[Hodgepodge]

That's a really good question, Hodgepodge, especially when they went to so much trouble to tell us why everyone else among the survivors was in Australia. I've wondered myself from time to time why she was there.

I think we were all expecting the tickets that Kevin gave her at their breakfast to be from Miami to Sidney, but of course, they weren't. That was a tease, I think, and most of us didn't really pick up on it. I hope it ends up being important to the story (why she was in Oz, that is), or else it will be just a narrative oversight, which would be disappointing.

...kate is just a fugutive, plain and simple. she had alot less of a chance getting cought anywhere other than in the united states. especially in the outback of australia.

now what i dont understand is the picture of her in the post office in the land of oz. why would they internationally distribute a pic of her??? ya, she killed her father and robbed a bank. but that doesnt require international attention. the marshall obviously knew that she was in oz BEFORE the farmer turned her in. but how did he know?

and also on the L.A. subject... why was she being transported there? she didnt rob the bank in LA, nor did she kill her father there. unless it was just a connecting flight. i understand that the marshall's unit/office could have been based oout of LA... but most of that government stuff (US MARSHALLS, CIA, FBI, etc) is east coast based.Abcdxyz, when Kevin showed her those tickets, I said 'so that's why she went to Australia.' Only to be foiled again! :mad: TPTB could've gotten themselves off the hook with that one, but they didn't use the bait. Which tells me, they'll get to it eventually. :pray:

CLUCK U, the idea of a wanted poster in Australia adds to my confusion. I don't think she made the mistake of calling him from there. But if she did, she's to smart to allow the call to be traced. Remember when she called the Marshal in I Do? She uses an egg timer to let her know when time is up.

Regarding why they were headed to Los Angeles. I've always assumed the he took the first available flight out of Sidney to the States. He was probably going to make a connecting flight once they arrived. But think about this! With all of the speculation about his feelings for her. Did he get on the first thing moving because he wanted to get her back? Or, did he take the first flight because he didn't trust himself? Again! ;)

[abcdxyz]

now what i dont understand is the picture of her in the post office in the land of oz. why would they internationally distribute a pic of her??? ya, she killed her father and robbed a bank. but that doesnt require international attention. the marshall obviously knew that she was in oz BEFORE the farmer turned her in. but how did he know?

I think we've kind of forgotten our whole S1 set of questions about Kate. I agree that there's more to the Marshal and Kate's relationship than we've seen yet. And I wonder why she ended up in Australia. I've always thought, as you suggest, CLUCK U, that there is something way over the top in the official response to Kate. Sure, she's a murderer, but you can't tell me every common garden-variety murderer gets this kind of pursuit. Look at the way they had a bunch of guys staked out at Kate's mother's house in Left Behind. That's way more than a response to an "ordinary" murderer. I mean, she's not really a mass murderer or a serial killer.

[Ida Monster]

...

kate is just a fugutive, plain and simple. she had alot less of a chance getting cought anywhere other than in the united states. especially in the outback of australia.

I agree with this. The outback is a very large place to get "lost" in.
It's also a very large place to die in if you have limited survival skills.
She'd be ok if she stuck to the roadways and smal towns or rural farms like Ray's.


now what i dont understand is the picture of her in the post office in the land of oz. why would they internationally distribute a pic of her??? ya, she killed her father and robbed a bank. but that doesnt require international attention. the marshall obviously knew that she was in oz BEFORE the farmer turned her in. but how did he know?

The marshall may have tracked her to that particular area then posted the "Wanted" posters himself. Is that even something they do in Oz? I understand that the practice of posting Wanted posters in US post offices has it's roots in the Old West. Do they do this in other countries as well?


and also on the L.A. subject... why was she being transported there? she didnt rob the bank in LA, nor did she kill her father there. unless it was just a connecting flight. i understand that the marshall's unit/office could have been based oout of LA... but most of that government stuff (US MARSHALLS, CIA, FBI, etc) is east coast based.

I think it was just a connecting flight, as the trip from OZ to LA is long and refueling or switching planes is a must. But you have a good point..
Could've she commited or be accused of an even worse crime?

[Hodgepodge]

...The marshall may have tracked her to that particular area then posted the "Wanted" posters himself. Is that even something they do in Oz? I understand that the practice of posting Wanted posters in US post offices has it's roots in the Old West. Do they do this in other countries as well?...Ray says he saw Kate's wanted poster a couple of days ago, then contacted the Authorities. I've always assumed when he called the number on the poster, the Marshal was contacted in the States and flew to Australia. I never considered he was already there. I'm looking forward to the flashback we're missing.

[CLUCK]

there ia definatly another piece to the puzzle with kate and the marshall. props to everyone for bring up some great points.

[etta]

Posted by Hodgepodge (bolding mine): Then remember the conversation between her and Sun, in the latters garden? "...I was on my way to Bali. I travel a lot. I was looking forward to exploring the island. Somehow I ended up on a flight to LA, instead." Was she trying to find the most remote place on the planet?

I never noticed this until I just read it in your quote, but Kate says she was on her way to Bali. Although I assume she's not telling the truth. However, didn't Naomi (end of Season 3) say that the plane was found off the coast of Bali? I don't know that this means anything, I just find it interesting that Kate mentioned being on the way to Bali in S1 and now we have Naomi saying that's where the plane wreckage was found in S3.:rolleyez: :rolleyez: :rolleyez:

[Hodgepodge]

Posted by Hodgepodge (bolding mine):

I never noticed this until I just read it in your quote, but Kate says she was on her way to Bali. Although I assume she's not telling the truth. However, didn't Naomi (end of Season 3) say that the plane was found off the coast of Bali? I don't know that this means anything, I just find it interesting that Kate mentioned being on the way to Bali in S1 and now we have Naomi saying that's where the plane wreckage was found in S3.:rolleyez: :rolleyez: :rolleyez:Damn it! Damn it! Damn it! You're exactly right Etta. I can't believe I missed that. :dunce: That means I've got to go back to that particular discussion thread and see if anyone else picked up on that little fact.

Thanks for catching that Etta! :wave2:


ETA: Just completed a search of the episode, The Brig. Several posts about Naomi mentioning Bali, but no mention of Kate saying she was on her way there in this episode. I'm sure it means nothing, but it's amazing what we're catching this time around. ;)

ETA2: Continued my search and found you weren't alone Etta. It was mentioned in the Cover-up: hijack of other flight 815 to Bali (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1502669#post1502669) thread. Start with post #35.

[etta]

Thanks for the link, Hodgepodge. I have to say I never would have made the connection if the Season 1 re-watch was not taking place.
I have about 2 more weeks of work before I go on maternity leave, so I should hopefully be able to keep up with the rest of the summer re-watch after that. I'm sure there's lots more of these connections to be found.

[MichaelW30]

I'll be one of the few to think that the marshall only had pure hatred for Kate and detested her. I think he represents the black and white view point of her.He only knows her by the acts she commited. To him she is a murderer who trys to rob banks and commit insurance fraud not to mention I'm sure he must think she has no value for life when she crashes the car with the love of her life in the car with her.

We as an audience are the ones who are shown why we should have compassion for her. We get to see the reasons for her actions and ever thing to us becomes grey.


Also for those who wonder why she is so heavily sought after I think we are all so fixed on the murder of her father that we forget the bank robbery and the fact that she would be now charged with robbing a bank and murder charges of three men.

[Freckles+The Best Cowboy]

Did Walt make it stop raining? We know that he is "special" and Michael had just finished saying "I'll look for Vincent when the rain stops."


I never thought about it that way before, but WOW, now that it's been mentioned.... Walt kind of looks out in the distance and then it stops.... and then he gives Michael a challenging look as if to say "Well? You were Saying?"

And knowing everything she has done wouldn’t she know how to dismantle a gun? Was she playing innocent when asking Sayid how to take it apart? (holding it on Sawyer after the polar bear incident)


Why was Kate given the gun to be the protector at first camp on the mountain top? It was obvious that she wanted everyone to think she was inexperienced with guns, yet they all decide that she should be the one to have it? Was it because no one trusted anyone else with it?

Yes, she completely played innocent after taking Sawyer's gun... and she's done it in the past too.... in the FB for WTCMB, she does it during the bank robbery. She knows perfectly well how to handle a gun but she pretends NOT to in order to seem nonthreatening, and it works very well for her here. Everyone agrees that she should hold it because she supposedly doesn't know how to use it, and is a neutral handle for it. Plus, if the girl holds the gun, none of the guys have to feel cheated out of it by another guy. It's no longer, 'why does HE get the gun?' but 'oh, the girl's got it. when we need it we can get it from her.'

If you listen closely as the plane breaks apart, some of it sounds like the monster sounds.

Ray Mullen had the same fake arm as the Dharma guy on the same side.

The metal gun case came down out of the overhead compartment and hit the Marshall in the head. Did someone have the wherewithall to take it and put it under the seat? Isn't that where Kate and Sawyer found it when they went for a swim?


After you made note of this, I DID hear some familiar sounds, mostly clicks in nature that were reminiscent of Smokey.

I have noticed the recurring missing limb theme, but never that it was one the same side.... good catch!

That wasn't the same case. The case with the guns was all silver, the case that hits the marshal is black with silver trim. Even if they were the exact same case in terms of looks, Kate explains that Airport security made the marshal CHECK the case of guns. In Exodus part 1, the Airport Security guy tell the marshal that the case will be stowed in the crew compartment up front. what it was doing under a seat in the lagoon is possibly a continuity error, because if it were in the CLC as indicated in Exodus, it would have been found with the Cockpit section. If it were checked in regular baggage as Kate suggested in WTCMB, it should have been found in the caves with Charlie's guitar, the empty coffin, and all that other stuff. But.... now I'm just nitpicking.

I think Sawyer suspected that he was somehow connected to, and a threat, to Kate, and this seemed like a good way of getting into her.....erm......good graces.

Good Graces? LOL! they are sure getting GOOD with euphemisms nowadays.



The first time we see Kate run w/o informing the person from whom she is
running (later it happens with the cop/husband).

Well, she did say that she left him a note, but I agree with you that she was intending to slip away in the night. However, she flat out TELLS her husband that she's leaving and why.


Kate seems much more confident and authoritative than she does in later
seasons.




Again, Kate is kind of a badass. She displays the right amount of vulnerability without being a complete, sniveling wreck. What happened?

Two words: Love. Triangle. She was totally AWESOME in the beginning, and it's the reason I love the character-- and every now and then, we are treated with a glimmer of take-no-nonsense Kate. hopefully we can start getting BACK to that soon... once this tri/quad/whatever angle stuff plays out. don't get me wrong, i love the romance stuff, but it REALLY brings out the worst in everyone involved most of the time, have you noticed? with Jack and Kate especially... Jack gets even WORSE with his superiority complex and Kate hits rock bottom with her INFERIORITY complex. Sawyer gets jealous and competitive, but even he handles it way better than the other two. We even SAW it in this episode, Jack claims 'I am NOT a murderer!' [as if suggesting Kate is one] and Kate helps absolutely NONE by withdrawling and not defending herself.
Interesting how the marshal seems to [I]want Kate to be the one to kill him—a classic result of rivalry.
VERY interesting, in retrospect... you may be right about the rivalry, but I noticed it a different way. This is our FIRST hint that Kate's original crime had something to do with homicide, and I wasn't watching quite closely enough so early in the show to notice it. The way he so casually suggests it... as if there is no question that she would be capable of doing such a thing.... because she had before.... and I was too green a Lost viewer to read that much into it. :p

People seem initially to gravitate towards both Kate and Sayid as leaders. For one thing, the individuals involved in the hike decide Kate should be in charge of the gun (a nice shred of irony, seeing as how back on the beach, Jack and Hurley are simultaneously discovering hints of her criminal past).

Sayid displays good leader potential as well, considering his speech upon their return to the beach. He is very take-charge, designating tasks and directing those around him. Jack has yet to officially assume the throne. That said, was anyone else annoyed by the fact that Jack automatically assumes Kate’s crime is murder?

I had forgotten about the scene between Jack and Sawyer in the wreckage of the fuselage. Nice setup with regard to character clashes here.



How DIFFERENTLY things might be if Sayid had assumed control. His speech in this episode was a perfect example of his leadership skills and while I realize Jack is the doctor, it should have been CLEAR that Sayid was a better fit as 'leader', if the lot is going to do things that way. I personally would want a committee of sorts.... they loosely have one but obviously once Jack gets a REAL hold of power within the group, things go south.... and this is coming from a person that LIKES Jack.

Kate would have done well also, as people tend to LISTEN to her, as has already been pointed out. When she's assertive, she makes a great leader. In her current state, not so much.

Yeah, I was annoyed. Not so much that he assumed the worst, but just they way he came across with it, so judgmental. He has no IDEA what she's wanted for and even worse, he doesn't even ask her about it, he just jumps to conclusions and passes judgment and how DARE she make any kind of suggestion about the Marshal? When Sayid suggests that Jack can't save the marshal, when Sawyer suggests that trying would be wasteful of precious resources, Jack gets defensive but no where NEAR the way he is when Kate says something about it. Granted, Kate is a little more BLUNT with telling him what he ought to do, but STILL.

I agree, it was a GREAT scene between Jack and Sawyer. Something I noticed: Jack's holier-than-thou schtick started WAY early. When I watched it the first time, I thought Sawyer a jerk and Jack a person of high moral ground, but seeing it now, its different. Even BEFORE I agreed that Sawyer had a stronger argument with the marshal/drugs thing, but now I noticed something else: Jack passes judgment mightily quick on others. Sawyer's looting. Sawyer wins THIS round of verbal banter with the clever 'I'm in the WILD.' quip... and he has a much more sound assessment, as terribly immoral as it sounds. If only he could harness that for good. ;)

I agree if this was the first time seeing Tabula Rasa you would really think there is more to the story than cop/fugitive he seems to really despise her.

The marshall seems way too personally invested in Kate. Of course, her bank robbery was out of proportion to the need to reclaim Tom's plane, and the fullpress federal pursuit way out of proportion to murder and insurance fraud, so that might just be the way they do Kate's story. Still, I keep expecting to learn there was a time she got away by getting awfully personal.

I'm definitely in agreement Bella. Remember when he tries to convince Jack of her crime. "Listen to me, no matter what she does - no matter how she makes you feel, don't you trust a word that she says. She will do anything to get away." This man knows from experience. He'd fallen hard!

This is a little far out there for my taste Unlocke Locke. Although, I do think there's a good chance she slept with him. A ruse used to escape. Remember her relationship with that bankrobber from Whatever the Case May Be. She's not above using sex, if it gets her what she wants.

Speaking of escape! We know why Kate was heading to Los Angeles, but why was she in Australia in the first place?

I'll agree here... as quoted above, the marshal told Jack she would do ANYTHING to get away.... and he put special emphasis on the word anything. Like you all have agreed, I too think there is way more to the Marshal/Kate relationship than just cop/criminal. He seems WAY too personally invested. Pointing a 'gun finger' at Kate in Australia was just one example, and I recall it being a particularly chilling gesture the FIRST time I saw it. It had the same effect while rewatching it.

I've always thought, as you suggest, CLUCK U, that there is something way over the top in the official response to Kate. Sure, she's a murderer, but you can't tell me every common garden-variety murderer gets this kind of pursuit. Look at the way they had a bunch of guys staked out at Kate's mother's house in Left Behind. That's way more than a response to an "ordinary" murderer. I mean, she's not really a mass murderer or a serial killer.

I've ALWAYS argued that the response to Kate's original crime was WAY out of proportion.... Alright, she blew up her house and the person inside, and her mom calls the police. US MARSHALS pick her up? that's WAAAAAY outrageous. I keep expecting to hear that there's more to the story. US Marshals are a FEDERAL service. her original crime is still at the state level... so what's up?

Other things:

Hurley was so funny in the scene where he runs into Kate and notices she has a gun. He's trying so hard to play it cool though he knows she's a fugitive and the gun just throws him for a major loop.

You know what else? Nobody on this show knows how to accept an apology! Kate tells Ray she's sorry, and he responds "I am too." this is a COMMON type of response on this show.

Dude count: 4. Dude total: 9.

[Darkrogue]

Two words: Love. Triangle. She was totally AWESOME in the beginning, and it's the reason I love the character-- and every now and then, we are treated with a glimmer of take-no-nonsense Kate. hopefully we can start getting BACK to that soon... once this tri/quad/whatever angle stuff plays out. don't get me wrong, i love the romance stuff, but it REALLY brings out the worst in everyone involved most of the time, have you noticed? with Jack and Kate especially... Jack gets even WORSE with his superiority complex and Kate hits rock bottom with her INFERIORITY complex. Sawyer gets jealous and competitive, but even he handles it way better than the other two. We even SAW it in this episode, Jack claims 'I am NOT a murderer!' [as if suggesting Kate is one] and Kate helps absolutely NONE by withdrawling and not defending herself.

I know. That triangle (quadrangle/hexagon/whatever the hell it is now) ruins almost every character it touches. And I really hate that. It was rather cute at first, when it was merely J/K/S rivalry, but it has been taken way too far, and has taken too much precedence. Nothing good has come of it, and how right you are that it has damaged every character involved in some way. I have said as much in other threads.

There is a term for what that love triangle has become, and it involves the word “cluster” + another word we cannot type in a PG-13 forum. A shame, really. That word is so versatile, and beautifully expresses some of my feelings regarding what has happened with this show. ;)

Kate is hardly the only character to suffer from bad writing. My primary favorite has suffered as well (to the worst degree-he’s dead). To be fair, it is the writing that can be blamed on most of our problems with these characters. Even the characters I can no longer stand I liked in season one. I cannot think of one character I hated by the end of season one. Some I had to warm up to (Sawyer, Jin, Shannon), but I liked everyone at the close of the season.

By the time we got around to the season 2 finale, I think I just about hated every single one of them. :D

I loved Hurley in that scene you mentioned. He is always trying to be so polite, and he always comes off as awkward.

And I'm kinda surprised you're only up to 9 on the "Dudes".

[Hodgepodge]

...We as an audience are the ones who are shown why we should have compassion for her. We get to see the reasons for her actions and ever thing to us becomes grey.


Also for those who wonder why she is so heavily sought after I think we are all so fixed on the murder of her father that we forget the bank robbery and the fact that she would be now charged with robbing a bank and murder charges of three men.MichaelW30, as an audience member, I have never seen Kate in shades of grey. What she's done has been cold-blooded and calculated. Her little spiel to Wayne/Sawyer in What Kate Did about why she killed him has never given her absolution in my book. Especially since she admits herself, him beating her mother wasn't the reason. I could've accepted that as a reason too. And we all forget about the little crime of bank robbery. :rolleyez:

Wayne, Tom! Who was the third man she killed?


...Pointing a 'gun finger' at Kate in Australia was just one example, and I recall it being a particularly chilling gesture the FIRST time I saw it. It had the same effect while rewatching it...Since we've been discussing the possibility of more than a cop/robber relationship between the Marshal and Kate, this brought something to mind.

I can imagine him having her in custody again. Kate using her femine wilds to lure him to remove the cuffs for a little roll in the hay. She getting the drop on him and using his own gun in her escape.

[MichaelW30]

That's right. I was wrong. She just shot Jason. You can roll your eyes at the bank robbery but my point was in the eyes of the Federal Agents she probably SEEMS much more heartless and dangerous.

I will have to disagree with they shades of grey. For one I believe no human is purely "back" or "white" evil or pure. She wants to man who turns her in to get his money and she REALLY loved Kevin.

[Hodgepodge]

That's right. I was wrong. She just shot Jason. You can roll your eyes at the bank robbery but my point was in the eyes of the Federal Agents she probably SEEMS much more heartless and dangerous.

I will have to disagree with they shades of grey. For one I believe no human is purely "back" or "white" evil or pure. She wants to man who turns her in to get his money and she REALLY loved Kevin.No, no! I wasn't being facetious with the rolling eyes. I was agreeing with you. Murder wasn't her only crime.

I can see us having sympathy for the character, and I do. But the acts we've brought up are "black". Yet I agree, saving Ray's life and wanting him to get the reward money, is completely "white". There's that symbolism again! ;)

[MichaelW30]

It's hard to tell sometimes. Kate's character really isn't one of my favorites but I will say that I'm ok with them showing her vulnerable side this year.

EVEN while sleeping with Sawyer not being the smartest thing she somewhat THOUGHT she was doing the right thing. She just might not have used the best judgement.

One of my favorite things about this show is how they show peoples inperfections yet show they can still be caring people. When a lot of shows try and have a strong female they overcompencate and then don't show a weaker side.

I just feel that while Kate irritated me this yr I was ok with it because I just took it as her being this yrs. Locke.

[Hodgepodge]

MichaelW30, I think a lot of what you hated about Kate in S3, can be attributed to her predicament. It's not a lot you can do from behind bars. Especially when you're being played like a violin by the maestro Ben.

[Freckles+The Best Cowboy]

I know. That triangle (quadrangle/hexagon/whatever the hell it is now) ruins almost every character it touches. And I really hate that. It was rather cute at first, when it was merely J/K/S rivalry, but it has been taken way too far, and has taken too much precedence. Nothing good has come of it, and how right you are that it has damaged every character involved in some way. I have said as much in other threads.

There is a term for what that love triangle has become, and it involves the word “cluster” + another word we cannot type in a PG-13 forum. A shame, really. That word is so versatile, and beautifully expresses some of my feelings regarding what has happened with this show. ;)

Kate is hardly the only character to suffer from bad writing. My primary favorite has suffered as well (to the worst degree-he’s dead). To be fair, it is the writing that can be blamed on most of our problems with these characters. Even the characters I can no longer stand I liked in season one. I cannot think of one character I hated by the end of season one. Some I had to warm up to (Sawyer, Jin, Shannon), but I liked everyone at the close of the season.

By the time we got around to the season 2 finale, I think I just about hated every single one of them. :D

I loved Hurley in that scene you mentioned. He is always trying to be so polite, and he always comes off as awkward.

And I'm kinda surprised you're only up to 9 on the "Dudes".

Yeah, I hear ya. Cluster:censored: indeed. You're right, it WAS cute at first... when it brought out that playful banter and it looked good either way... but as it's worn on, it began to bring out the WORST sides of everyone involved.... and now it's just such a hot MESS that they need to let it fade away. I thought it was great when she 'chose' Sawyer at the beginning of S3. I felt that was a better decision as far as matchups at that point, and it would have been GREAT if the jate thing took the backburner [the way way in the back one] then. But the writers try to please EVERYONE and that presents a big problem. They SHOULD have had her choose and let that be it. It didn't need to be in Jack's FACE or anything, but that whole did-she-sleep-with-Sawyer-to-get-back-at-Jack ordeal was a BIG mistake and it was really below everyone involved. It's one thing to subtly show that she hasn't forgotten about Jack, but Christ, do it tastefully. Maybe they can pick it up in S4 and fix it somewhat... maybe if they try now we can begin to forget what a terrible thing this has become. We know that Kate makes it off the island, so obviously, they have a plan for her..... hopefully it involves dropping this ghastly curse of a romantic whateverangle and redeeming everyone stuck in it.

Seeing how they turned Charlie's stalled out story into something everyone could care about, I still have faith that they can do the same with the once awesomely badass, but still interestingly flawed Kate. She pulled strong yet vulnerable off PERFECTLY once before, we know they can do it. They just have to stop writing Kate in the interest of Jack/Sawyer and start writing her like they had her in S1. They ARE capable of redeeming a character: Locke is another strong example. He's come way back from the brink.

LOL, I know... I thought there would be more, he uses a couple back to back... but I'm sure itll stack up fast. I'll be keeping a running count just for fun. :p

MichaelW30, as an audience member, I have never seen Kate in shades of grey. What she's done has been cold-blooded and calculated. Her little spiel to Wayne/Sawyer in What Kate Did about why she killed him has never given her absolution in my book. Especially since she admits herself, him beating her mother wasn't the reason. I could've accepted that as a reason too. And we all forget about the little crime of bank robbery. :rolleyez:

Wayne, Tom! Who was the third man she killed?


Since we've been discussing the possibility of more than a cop/robber relationship between the Marshal and Kate, this brought something to mind.

I can imagine him having her in custody again. Kate using her feminine wiles to lure him to remove the cuffs for a little roll in the hay. She getting the drop on him and using his own gun in her escape.

That wouldn't surprise me, lol. That would definitely help explain all the animosity between them. The marshal seems to have a really personal vendetta against her, especially in this ep. Hopefully we have a flashback coming that will do it justice.


I will have to disagree with they shades of grey. For one I believe no human is purely "back" or "white" evil or pure. She wants to man who turns her in to get his money and she REALLY loved Kevin.

I agree with you.... they've purposely shown us her compassionate side to soften the idea of her past, but I think we can all agree that when she's bad, she's really REALLY wicked. She's done some really cold things, but she's got a heart in there somewhere.... and as viewers, it affects our perception of her crimes. We see those things as done out of self preservation and almost a survival instinct. During the bank robbery, its said that she didn't want anyone to get hurt, but when Jason blows that plan to smithereens, she turns over that other side and does what she has to.... from the Police point of view, the cut and dried version looks REAL bad, but we see a different person. So I can agree with you on the concept of us seeing in gray... but it seems to me that the marshal has a way more EXTREME take, and there's something more than cop/criminal driving his motivations to capture her. I suppose we'll see. :p

[B]MichaelW30, I think a lot of what you hated about Kate in S3, can be attributed to her predicament. It's not a lot you can do from behind bars. Especially when you're being played like a violin by the maestro Ben.

I agree here. The writers really immobilized her in the beginning of S3 with the cages, and they did it on purpose. Kate's been running from bars for a while now, to put her behind them WOULD really break her spirit and strip her bare. The rest of S3 Kate has been about her finding her strength again, but they've been struggling with it because they let the romantic thing kind of smother a lot of the compelling personal stuff that they could have gone with. So the mini was about her being forced to face her worst fears and they did a really GOOD thing by her when they had her climb back in her cage to stay with Sawyer. That was a really powerful scene and it was important in the development of both her and the Kate/Sawyer relationship. The middle of S3 had Kate going back for Jack, and that was the right thing for Kate as well. However.... they really MANGLED the end of it, and since then she's kind of been bleh. You'd think after experiencing the Others first hand she'd have a whole HELLUVA lot to say to Sayid, and whatwith the GREAT team they made in S1, you'd think the writers would have gone back to that.... they SORT of did for a bit but then forgot about it at the end of the season when it would have really been an advantage to both characters. Sayid's WAY underused, imho. He's not my favorite character, but I would keep him in the forefront. Survival of the fittest, remember? Sayid's at the top of the fittest list, and he's still doing a good job of balancing his strengths with his flaws.

Ben's really been pulling the strings all season, but we're at the cusp of a coup d'etat and Locke is going to prove to be everything Ben feared he was. I can't WAIT for S4... they've set up some really great stuff and now that they have a SET SCHEDULE, they can carry out their master plan. While its kind of a bummer that we'll only get 16 ep seasons from now on, at least we have a guarantee that nothing will get dragged out longer than necessary because the writers wont be trying to stretch the story out and make it last.

[Hodgepodge]

...I agree here. The writers really immobilized her in the beginning of S3 with the cages, and they did it on purpose. Kate's been running from bars for a while now, to put her behind them WOULD really break her spirit and strip her bare. The rest of S3 Kate has been about her finding her strength again, but they've been struggling with it because they let the romantic thing kind of smother a lot of the compelling personal stuff that they could have gone with. So the mini was about her being forced to face her worst fears and they did a really GOOD thing by her when they had her climb back in her cage to stay with Sawyer. That was a really powerful scene and it was important in the development of both her and the Kate/Sawyer relationship. The middle of S3 had Kate going back for Jack, and that was the right thing for Kate as well. However.... they really MANGLED the end of it, and since then she's kind of been bleh...You know Freckles+The Best Cowboy, I never looked at Kate behind bars as nothing but a plot device. But you make a great point. She has been running from her past, along with running from herself long enough. Putting her behind bars is maybe what she needed to drop all the baggage she's been carrying around. Not the legal baggage, but all the other stuff. And, there's a lot of other stuff.

I never bought the choice she made while in custody (if we can keep the same symbolism going :)). She was manipulated into choosing Sawyer from day one. We saw it coming from that first breakfast meeting with Ben.

KATE: What did you do with Sawyer and Jack?

GALE: Now why Sawyer?

KATE: Why Sawyer what?

GALE: He's the first one you asked about. "What did you do with Sawyer and Jack?"

KATE: You don't know me.

GALE: Of course I don't.
As you mention, going back for Jack was the consummate Kate. She's like a Marine. You don't leave a man behind. But, once they were safe, in her mind she starts to vacillate.

When Juliet told her Jack saw them, you could see her whole being change. She even went so far as to tell Sawyer, the only reason she slept with him was because she thought he was going to die. Then, she sees Jack and Juliet together, like a couple. What does she do? She runs to Sawyer's tent for another roll in the hay. I agree, I'm tired of it too. But, I think it's being played perfectly.

Haven't you been in love with two men at the same time? :nanabobo:

[Freckles+The Best Cowboy]

OH, absolutely. The Others had a very BIG part in orchestrating her 'decision'. In hindsight, its easy to see that its EXACTLY what they wanted to accomplish. The WHY part is a little fuzzy, but we know for a fact that they damn near forced the two of them together. Putting them in cages right across from each other was genius, because it allowed them to be somewhat united in a time of weakness and uncertainty. With Jack out of the picture, it was the two of them against the world and it definitely put a rock on the accelerator of their relationship.

However, I also feel that in time, Kate would have chosen Sawyer anyway. He's a way better match for her as a partner and they are at the same place in their own lives that they can kind of help each other. Kate and Jack, on the other hand, have some serious problems that keep them apart. Jack's superiority complex is one. Kate's severely low self esteem is another and putting those together is like dynamite. It's a damn wonder those two even like spending time together. But Kate loves Jack because Jack is just like Sgt. Austen and Dr. Tom and Police Officer Kevin. He's a morally good man who tries to do the right thing. Jack is exactly her type, as someone earlier said. But until she feels worthy of him, they'll never have any real kind of relationship, and Jack does LITTLE to help her in that department with all his judgmental fits and wishy washy behavior.

Sawyer, conversely, is her KIND. To watch the two of them together is just about the only good thing to come of the triangle, and while they have their lows.... they've also got their highs. Theyve got a strong bond of camaraderie and understanding, and i think eventually they would have wound up together.

But yes, I agree, her choice was almost not even hers. Curious, though, that the Others, in all their infinite knowledge of our castaways, chose to put Sawyer and Kate together. It was almost like they knew it was a done deal. ;)

I don't think we can believe Ben when he told Jack that he would have bet on Jate, nor do I believe Kate was put in the cages with Sawyer simply because she put his name first in the question to Ben that you quoted above. No, Kate and Sawyer were going in those cages together and Jack was put inside [and kept from seeing them] for a reason. No, that whole captivity setup was loaded, and Ben IS a betting man... one who stacked his bets perfectly. He got everything he wanted, didn't he?

Yes, it's played very well.... and convincingly, lol, but it can be frustrating from time to time.

Haven't you been in love with two men at the same time?

No, i haven't, and I thank my lucky stars, because apparently it puts capable, rational women asunder. :p

[LAN]

OH, absolutely. The Others had a very BIG part in orchestrating her 'decision'. In hindsight, its easy to see that its EXACTLY what they wanted to accomplish. The WHY part is a little fuzzy, but we know for a fact that they damn near forced the two of them together.

As some people have theorized, perhaps the Others were trying to get the Losties to conceive another child, perhaps for research...or perhaps they think Juliet has now figured out a way to conceive on the island (due to Aaron's birth).

And maybe Ben's initial question was meant to prompt Kate into giving away whom she cared for more.... when she mentioned Sawyer's name first and Ben called her on it. Maybe it was due to that conversation that they ended up putting her in with Sawyer.

Or it was just coincidental and they really only wanted to seperate Jack, in hopes of getting him to perform the surgery on Ben.

[Hodgepodge]

OH, absolutely. The Others had a very BIG part in orchestrating her 'decision'. In hindsight, its easy to see that its EXACTLY what they wanted to accomplish. The WHY part is a little fuzzy, but we know for a fact that they damn near forced the two of them together. Putting them in cages right across from each other was genius, because it allowed them to be somewhat united in a time of weakness and uncertainty. With Jack out of the picture, it was the two of them against the world and it definitely put a rock on the accelerator of their relationship...

...I don't think we can believe Ben when he told Jack that he would have bet on Jate, nor do I believe Kate was put in the cages with Sawyer simply because she put his name first in the question to Ben that you quoted above. No, Kate and Sawyer were going in those cages together and Jack was put inside [and kept from seeing them] for a reason. No, that whole captivity setup was loaded, and Ben IS a betting man... one who stacked his bets perfectly. He got everything he wanted, didn't he?Well, I think the why was to get Jack to operate. Remember, according to Tom Jack wasn't on Jacob's list. Bringing him was on Ben and Ben only.


...However, I also feel that in time, Kate would have chosen Sawyer anyway. He's a way better match for her as a partner and they are at the same place in their own lives that they can kind of help each other. Kate and Jack, on the other hand, have some serious problems that keep them apart. Jack's superiority complex is one. Kate's severely low self esteem is another and putting those together is like dynamite. It's a damn wonder those two even like spending time together. But Kate loves Jack because Jack is just like Sgt. Austen and Dr. Tom and Police Officer Kevin. He's a morally good man who tries to do the right thing. Jack is exactly her type, as someone earlier said. But until she feels worthy of him, they'll never have any real kind of relationship, and Jack does LITTLE to help her in that department with all his judgmental fits and wishy washy behavior...I don't necessarily agree with your assumption, and not because I'm a closet Jate. :nanabobo:

Remember, this is a woman whose wanted for a couple of murders, bankrobbery, insurance fraud, and numerous other things, and she marries a policeman. No way was Kevin a good choice!


No, i haven't, and I thank my lucky stars, because apparently it puts capable, rational women asunder. :pWell, you're still young. Give it a few more years. :D


As some people have theorized, perhaps the Others were trying to get the Losties to conceive another child, perhaps for research...or perhaps they think Juliet has now figured out a way to conceive on the island (due to Aaron's birth).

And maybe Ben's initial question was meant to prompt Kate into giving away whom she cared for more.... when she mentioned Sawyer's name first and Ben called her on it. Maybe it was due to that conversation that they ended up putting her in with Sawyer.

Or it was just coincidental and they really only wanted to seperate Jack, in hopes of getting him to perform the surgery on Ben.You maybe right Lostagainnaturally, but I think it was only to get Jack to operate on Ben. The separation, and I agree with Freckles, was a bargaining chip. When Ben couldn't get Jack to operate by purely ethical means, he played the sex card. Showing him Kate and Sawyer after the deed was the trump card. ;)

[Freckles+The Best Cowboy]

Well, I think the why was to get Jack to operate. Remember, according to Tom Jack wasn't on Jacob's list. Bringing him was on Ben and Ben only.

Right.... "Shepherd Wasn't Even ON Jacob's List", but I think it was Pickett who said it first. But strangely, Pickett said this as he was headed to shoot Sawyer. So WHAT was Jacob's list for, if Jack wasn't on it and it was okay to kill Sawyer? Can we assume Sawyer and Kate were on it? And if they both were, was it a death list? Pickett seemingly ALWAYS wanted to kill/maim Sawyer. short fuse, or itching to carry out some bizarre sentence? And if it was okay to kill Sawyer, was it because he WASNT on the list? So then was Kate? Why?? For the whole fiendish pregnancy plan? Why not some random other person? A redshirt? another female character?

Was it really Jacob's list? Or was it Ben's? If it was Ben's.... then why wasn't Jack on it? Seems to me there'd be no reason to make the distinction, right? If Ben made the list, why would he say "Well, the doctor's not on the list, but snatch him anyway so he can fix me."


I don't necessarily agree with your assumption, and not because I'm a closet Jate. :nanabobo:

Remember, this is a woman whose wanted for a couple of murders, bankrobbery, insurance fraud, and numerous other things, and she marries a policeman. No way was Kevin a good choice!

I agree.... Kevin was a downright BAD idea from the get go. If I were Kate, I would have promptly run the other way when I saw the badge. You'd think that would be the sensible thing to do. but Maybe Kate shacked up with a cop because it helped her feel a little less like a criminal. Maybe she sought a little redemption in Kevin. Maybe she just like Kevin 'cause he was a lot like her father. he stands for truth and justice and all that stuff and being with him, Kate could feel innocent by association? Maybe a little of his goodness would rub off on her? Who really knows. But Jack.... oh, Jack's right in the same vein. Not in the police sense, but the good strong aura is there.... or was in the beginning. In the first few episodes, it was hard to see how anyone WOULDNT like Jack. He had his moments, but overall, he was an admirable guy.... before he fell apart, mind you. And then even after... he has some very good qualities, and hes an essential part of the group. Bit of a hero complex.... but i imagine that was another part of the appeal for Kate. Sgt Austen was a hero, wasn't he? ;)

So that's what Kate WANTS in a man. Since we haven't seen any relationships in her past like Sawyer, we have nothing to base this relationship on. There was the bank robbing boyfriend Jason.... but he was a bit of a tool, wasn't he? there was hardly a real relationship there.... beyond purely physical. Initially, we saw Kate alternate between grinding AGAINST Sawyer and really fitting perfectly with him. When Sawyer was a bonafide ass, Kate wasn't afraid to let him know it. But they had their chemistry... and they had their NICE moments too.... and Kate was always HERSELF around Sawyer. She never had to worry about him thinking less of her. She was as close to honest with Sawyer as she's been with ANYONE on the island.... and in this way, they developed a confidence in each other, and a relationship built on trust.

Kate cant be with Jack, not the way she'd like to, until she can be completely honest with him. Remember when she left Kevin? She didn't want to tell him the truth and she was pretty upset about it.... I can't imagine she would want to repeat that with Jack. Now, Jack knows a little more than Kevin did [until she out and a told him, that is]. But Jack doesn't know EVERYTHING, and theres a whole hell of a lot to tell. Can you ever see her being comfortable enough with him to tell it all? Can you ever see her being alright with NOT telling him but being in a serious relationship with him? I can't.

Still not a believer? ;)


Well, you're still young. Give it a few more years. :D

Oh.... heaven help me. I can't imagine being in that position or having to decide. I'd go crazy.... hmm... kind of like Kate has. :p


You maybe right Lostagainnaturally, but I think it was only to get Jack to operate on Ben. The separation, and I agree with Freckles, was a bargaining chip. When Ben couldn't get Jack to operate by purely ethical means, he played the sex card. Showing him Kate and Sawyer after the deed was the trump card. ;)

Do you really think that's the ONLY reason Kate and Sawyer where there? seems an awfully convoluted plan if you ask me. It's possible they WANTED Jack to see it, yes.... but to have planned that all along? Ben's good.... but he ain't THAT good.

I believe he put Kate and Sawyer together to break them down and allow them to be there for each other and maybe even to try to get them to knock boots... but to say he planned all that would happen in two weeks and that Jack would react the way he did when he saw it? That's a real stretch. and what if Kate had asked after Jack FIRST? I highly doubt they would have put Kate in with Jack. Kate was put in a cage. She was always going to go there. Sawyer started OUT there. Jack was put inside. He was isolated to break HIM down and get him to do the surgery. If they'd put him and Kate together, he'd have NEVER done anything.... because he would have everything he REALLY cared about right next to him and Sawyer would have been a sacrifice the island demanded. Ben HAD to have known that.

[Hodgepodge]

Right.... "Shepherd Wasn't Even ON Jacob's List", but I think it was Pickett who said it first. But strangely, Pickett said this as he was headed to shoot Sawyer. So WHAT was Jacob's list for, if Jack wasn't on it and it was okay to kill Sawyer? Can we assume Sawyer and Kate were on it? And if they both were, was it a death list? Pickett seemingly ALWAYS wanted to kill/maim Sawyer. short fuse, or itching to carry out some bizarre sentence? And if it was okay to kill Sawyer, was it because he WASNT on the list? So then was Kate? Why?? For the whole fiendish pregnancy plan? Why not some random other person? A redshirt? another female character?

Was it really Jacob's list? Or was it Ben's? If it was Ben's.... then why wasn't Jack on it? Seems to me there'd be no reason to make the distinction, right? If Ben made the list, why would he say "Well, the doctor's not on the list, but snatch him anyway so he can fix me."You bring up some valid questions Freckles, and I wish I had some answers for you. But I don't! :confused:

My gut feeling is Jacob's list is actually Ben's list. I think Jacob stopped talking to Ben awhile ago. But, as you mentioned, that should've automatically put Jack on the list with Ben needing the operation and all. If I remember correctly, Ben finds out about his tumor the same day flight 815 crashes. Also, remember him joking to Jack about three days ago he finds out he has a tumor on his spine and a spinal surgeon falls out of the sky. Ben knew what he needed when he sent Goodwin and Ethan to search for survivors. Maybe it's as you think, a death list.



I agree.... Kevin was a downright BAD idea from the get go. If I were Kate, I would have promptly run the other way when I saw the badge. You'd think that would be the sensible thing to do. but Maybe Kate shacked up with a cop because it helped her feel a little less like a criminal. Maybe she sought a little redemption in Kevin. Maybe she just like Kevin 'cause he was a lot like her father. he stands for truth and justice and all that stuff and being with him, Kate could feel innocent by association? Maybe a little of his goodness would rub off on her? Who really knows. But Jack.... oh, Jack's right in the same vein. Not in the police sense, but the good strong aura is there.... or was in the beginning. In the first few episodes, it was hard to see how anyone WOULDNT like Jack. He had his moments, but overall, he was an admirable guy.... before he fell apart, mind you. And then even after... he has some very good qualities, and hes an essential part of the group. Bit of a hero complex.... but i imagine that was another part of the appeal for Kate. Sgt Austen was a hero, wasn't he? ;)...This is great Freckles! :wave2: Your reason she was with Kevin makes a lot of sense. It's like she's trying to redeem her soul by being with someone admirable--a hero. I mean, the idea of Wayne being her biological father really screwed her up. Remember what the Marshal said in What Kate Did? "...no history of violence, straight A's, no record, couple of speeding tickets..." This was your normal girl.


...Kate cant be with Jack, not the way she'd like to, until she can be completely honest with him. Remember when she left Kevin? She didn't want to tell him the truth and she was pretty upset about it.... I can't imagine she would want to repeat that with Jack. Now, Jack knows a little more than Kevin did [until she out and a told him, that is]. But Jack doesn't know EVERYTHING, and theres a whole hell of a lot to tell. Can you ever see her being comfortable enough with him to tell it all? Can you ever see her being alright with NOT telling him but being in a serious relationship with him? I can't.

Still not a believer? ;)...Oh, I complete agree with you. She'd always feel she wasn't good enough for him. He'd always look down his nose at her. I never said it was a match made in heaven. :nanabobo:


...Do you really think that's the ONLY reason Kate and Sawyer where there? seems an awfully convoluted plan if you ask me. It's possible they WANTED Jack to see it, yes.... but to have planned that all along? Ben's good.... but he ain't THAT good.

I believe he put Kate and Sawyer together to break them down and allow them to be there for each other and maybe even to try to get them to knock boots... but to say he planned all that would happen in two weeks and that Jack would react the way he did when he saw it? That's a real stretch. and what if Kate had asked after Jack FIRST? I highly doubt they would have put Kate in with Jack. Kate was put in a cage. She was always going to go there. Sawyer started OUT there. Jack was put inside. He was isolated to break HIM down and get him to do the surgery. If they'd put him and Kate together, he'd have NEVER done anything.... because he would have everything he REALLY cared about right next to him and Sawyer would have been a sacrifice the island demanded. Ben HAD to have known that.Freckles, Ben's that good! :nanabobo:

We have to remember the "Others" have had the Losties under surveillance since they found the hatch. There also maybe video monitors throughout the jungle. Ben may've seen the little games Sawyer and Kate played with each other. We all know there's always been chemistry between them. And we know Ben's a master manipulator.

I agree, Sawyer and Kate were always going in those outer cages. Jack was put indoors to break him--isolate him from his friends. But, I'm 100% sure Ben had the endgame and all it's variables planned out. As I mentioned earlier, this guy is that good. :nanabobo:

[ZIA]

Freckles, Ben's that good! :nanabobo:
But, I'm 100% sure Ben had the endgame and all it's variables planned out. As I mentioned earlier, this guy is that good. :nanabobo:

Ben's that good. Nothing is beyond the scope of his maniacal genius. I truly believe this.

I am convinced that Ben planned every single move he has ever made since he was introduced to LOST.

Remember when he was going over Juliette's infilltration with her? He asked "And if they don't believe you?" and "if she catches you lying?" as they went over possible scenarios together.

He's a genius and a manipulator of people which equals a toxic combination.

[Hodgepodge]

Ben's that good. Nothing is beyond the scope of his maniacal genius. I truly believe this.

I am convinced that Ben planned every single move he has ever made since he was introduced to LOST.

Remember when he was going over Juliette's infilltration with her? He asked "And if they don't believe you?" and "if she catches you lying?" as they went over possible scenarios together.

He's a genius and a manipulator of people which equals a toxic combination.:yeah:

[sweetsunray]

He ain't that good... Juliet chose to go the other side, and he was unable to prevent Jack from making the call. At some point, Ben seemed to have overestimated his persuasion (that is blackmail) talents and underestimate the motivations of the Losties.

On the mini-series... the N&P FB showed that Ben had planned to get Jack and use Kate for it early on, right before Michael read "Walt's" message on the puter in the Swan that made him go search for "Waaaaaaaaaaaalt!", get captured, and broken to become a traitor to the Losties and bring back Jack, Kate and Sawyer. Sawyer probably was not in Ben's plans when he had Juliet down the Pearl, until after the confrontation where Jack, Sawyer and Locke are told not to cross the line. Tom's information on Jack's reaction and Sawyer's reaction when he held a gun to Kate's head probably made Ben think that Jack was a hard-ball poker player and that another person was invested in Kate, and that might come in handy. I do think Ben wanted to use Kate until that morning of her first asking after Sawyer to be set opposed/aside to Jack and used as blackmail (we might hurt her... you be good and you may get to see more of her than a glimpse, etc). Remember that Alex was adament about Kate normally not supposed to be in that cage opposite of Sawyer (where Karl used to be) but someplace else. But I'll say Ben's original plan was to break Jack through Kate, without Sawyer. And for Ben it was a good thing he is flexible enough to alter his plans with new information (Sawyer), because at the same time Jack had already recognized Kate to be his weak spot before he set out with Sawyer and Locke in search for Micheal (when Kate got captured and a gun agains ther head) and tried to put distance in between them at the time. And when eventually Ben did order Juliet to use Kate as leverage with Jack for him to do the operation, Jack was on it instantly (the moment she mentioned it, he looked straight into the camera, knowing full well Ben wanted to use his feelings for Kate to manipulate him). And as a poker player Jack played hard ball back.

And in that Ben made another mistake later on... Although seeing the scene between Kate and Sawyer did make him decide to go through with the operation, and it did hurt him, it motivated Jack in a way that Ben could not fathom ... self-sacrifice in order to get Kate (and Sawyer... if only because Kate cared for him) free, rather than jealousy.

[jane_eire]

whispers

[MaxPower]

Locke looks seriously creepy at the end.

Ok, I know this rewatch has long passed, but I happened to just watch this via ABC's online stream.

I want to reiterate Vanilla's statement. Not only does he look ultra creepy, but Hurley's music fades into a very sinister tone and because I'm listening via headphones, I could hear just a hint of Smokey's clicking noises right before it cuts to black. Now, was this just for dramatic effect because of Locke's "secret" or is this a hint to something more?

I haven't checked the original episode thread yet to see if this had been discussed. My apologies if so.

[Hollysasquatch]

Last night, I was watching LOST reruns on tv. I don't recall the name of the episode, but it's the one right before the episode where Locke is revealed to have been paralyzed. The show ends showing everyone in fairly good moods, getting along with each other, etc. Then, the camera spins from the back to the front of Locke's head and you see him squinting with a melancholy look on his face. I'd noticed it before, but forgot about it until last night. Were they trying to tell us he's one of the most important characters? Or maybe that he's actually a villian? Or MAYBE even that he's carrying out a real mission; possible that he'd "been there before".... Thoughts?

I would have posted this in the season 1 episode discussion, but I didn't see one.

[Randy Nations]

Was that the one where it's dark and there are flames (from the campfire) in the foreground? He looked very menacing. But I think that they were just try to single Locke out as someone different, special, thoughtful, calm. He felt a closeness with the island from the beginning. And I think these scenes of him were meant to sort of set that up. Just my opinion.....:)

[Brian]

It was, I believe, Tabula Rasa. The same episode where Locke gets Vincent back to Walt.

I'm going to merge this with that thread in the re-watch forum and leave a re-direct link here so you can find it. :)

Please continue there. :thankyous

[ozanna]

Was this the scene where everybody was on the beach - it was a sort of lull-after-the-storm kind of feeling - Hurley was playing Joe Purdy's "Wash Away" on his tape and everybody was picking up the pieces and almost relaxing. The song stopped, the music turned sinister and we see Locke looking at Walt as Michael runs up to him with Vincent. Locke's face is almost evil, enigmatic and calculating. What was that all about ?

[Hollysasquatch]

That's exactly the scene. It really freaked me out. I never thought Locke was evil, but that scene sure portrayed him as such.

[ozanna]

It always seemed strange to me that Locke had this interest in Walt right from the start. And then later Walt was kidnapped by the Others, but turned out to be not what they wanted. How much did Locke actually know about what was going on on the island ?

[AChristianShephard]

Agreed, the Walt/Locke relationship is always the 1st thing to spring to mind when i remember season 1.Best Season by far, you re-waching?

[ozanna]

Agreed, the Walt/Locke relationship is always the 1st thing to spring to mind when i remember season 1.Best Season by far, you re-waching?
What, S1 ? I love S1 and I've rewatched it a few times ! By going back to it you begin to see things that happened there that relate to things that happened in recent epis. And I'm betting once we start rewatching S4 we'll be popping back to S1 from time to time ! This is why I love this show ! :Hippy:

[ZIA]

UPDATED! Hiatus Rewatch NOW! (05/27/09-06/03/09)

[Dew]

I'm ready whenever you are. :hyper:

[Dew]

I was feeling kind of down and couldn't move much so I watched Tabula Rasa. 2 things were more prominent since we have gone 5 seasons. One was when Jack is sitting on the beach after the marshall died and Kate sits down next to him. She wants to tell him what she did that had the marshal after her. This is what line stood out for me.

JACK: I don't want to know. It doesn't matter, Kate, who we were - what we did before this, before the crash. It doesn't really -- 3 days ago we all died. We should all be able to start over.

The other is the look in Locke's eye as he uses the "dog" whistle he made and suddenly Vincent appears from the jungle. Those eyes didn't look human. :eek:

I am going to watch it again, I think. :whistling

[ZIA]

Okay. When are you thinking?

[ozanna]

The other is the look in Locke's eye as he uses the "dog" whistle he made and suddenly Vincent appears from the jungle. Those eyes didn't look human.
Dew - sometimes Locke has an almost alien look to him, and when he smiled at Kate earlier with the orange peel over his teeth he looked positively scary. But other times he can appear benevolent and kind.

And Jack saying to Kate that we all died and we get a new life now, wasn't that exactly what Locke said - Tabula rasa", a clean slate. But Jack has always been the one who can't let go, he has to keep dragging his baggage around with him. And he holds people's past mistakes against them.

I started rewatching this morning, but had to stop and get back to my judging duties for Chop Wars, so I'll carry on later. I'm still trying to figure out whether I am getting more answers, or getting more :confused:!

[Dew]

Okay. When are you thinking?

Any time. I just found out that my truck's A/C has been successful repaired, ripped out and all new installed, and my tires have been rotated and balanced. Cool, right. Um, no. The mechanic calls me and says, "there is a black cloud following you. As I was mounting the driver side read tire, the gas line burst and it spewing gasoline. The main gas feed line rusted through." I tell him to fix it since it isn't safe to drive and glad I don't smoke anymore. He calls back. "It will be $120 for the part and oh since it is '96 GMC, it isn't stocked anymore. Special order from Wisconsin. Will be in Tuesday. The truck will be ready Wednesday night or Thursday."

I have no transportation so I am home bound for the next week. It is going to cost more to fix my truck than it is worth but still cheaper than a new vehicle. So just say the word and I will re-watch it with you. :)

Dew - sometimes Locke has an almost alien look to him, and when he smiled at Kate earlier with the orange peel over his teeth he looked positively scary. But other times he can appear benevolent and kind.

And Jack saying to Kate that we all died and we get a new life now, wasn't that exactly what Locke said - Tabula rasa", a clean slate. But Jack has always been the one who can't let go, he has to keep dragging his baggage around with him. And he holds people's past mistakes against them.

I started rewatching this morning, but had to stop and get back to my judging duties for Chop Wars, so I'll carry on later. I'm still trying to figure out whether I am getting more answers, or getting more :confused:!

True about Lock's look but this was more like the look from the Flocke of S5. Evil was being kind and alien was closer but this was just demonic.

Jack and his new life. When he says it then it is true but when someone else says it then it is BS. Yeah Jack doesn't want to know what Kate did. That is BS too and a really poor pick up line.

I understand the getting more answers or getting more confused. lol

[ozanna]

Dew - so sorry about your transport woes, but I'm sure you will be able to keep yourself occupied for a week .... Frank immediately springs to mind :)

Just getting back to Locke and slightly OT, but how many people who have become involved with Locke have eventually died ? Shannon, Boone, Charlie, Eko. Claire disappeared. When he first looked up and saw what he said was beautiful, I think he was actually being possessed by something - Smokey or whatever dark angel wanted to use him ! Locke would have been easy to manipulate, he wanted to be important and to have a meaning to his miserable life.

[Dew]

Yes, now I am wondering if Locke was possessed the entire series by something. Perhaps 2 different entities. One until he was off-island and something imitating him later on.

I now wonder how many different entities, for lack of better words, exist on the island and are in contention with each other. OTOH is it just 2 entities with varieties of minions? Guess will find out at some point.

btw, Yes I have lots of Frank/JF stuff to keep my mind off this new complication. I will also work on my other projects. I did get a neighbor to agree to take me with them when they go to Wal-Mart tomorrow. I can get what I need, (eggs, bread, etc) while they do their thing. I made arrangements for another friend to take to the ophthalmologist next week. Somehow it works out. :)

[AChristianShephard]

Can't remember this episode, gonna watch now.

One thing I forgot to mention about the pilot was how LOST pretty much gets straight to the point.

The monster, the whole 'people coming back to life' (Rose n Aaron), Locke Black & White speech, Walt being drawn to him, the triangle being set up.

I'd also forgot how completely awesome Kate was at the start, she somehow merged into a bothersome whinebag, when was that, season 3? She's better again now, but this early Kate! No wonder she took all the initial headlines.

There's been various talk on how the last few seasons have picked up pace but its all just huffing and puffing, not much actually happened in most of them

[ZIA]

I LOVED Kate in the pilot. She was SO awesome in S1. I still love her. I don't care what anyone says. :)

[AChristianShephard]

OMG what is going on with Locke at the end of this episode lol.

Woah that was cr-ee-py!

It can't be flock, can it? Nah, it simply cant. It was a clever storytelling device.
CAN IT?
Genius.

He def knows something about Walt, why was he looking at him that way?
Interesting that Walt has not been shown as a factor yet (apart from the Red Herring that was the comic book).

[Captain]

I LOVED Kate in the pilot. She was SO awesome in S1. I still love her. I don't care what anyone says. :)

:yeah:

I remember when i first started watching the Lost series i was thinking " why do people hate Kate? she seems really nice..."

BUT
season 2 came and she got a lil whiny, and then season 3 made her VERY annoying.

[tellthemmrekoletyoulive]

OMG what is going on with Locke at the end of this episode lol.

Woah that was cr-ee-py!

It can't be flock, can it? Nah, it simply cant. It was a clever storytelling device.
CAN IT?
Genius.

He def knows something about Walt, why was he looking at him that way?
Interesting that Walt has not been shown as a factor yet (apart from the Red Herring that was the comic book).

I've definitely been keeping my eye on Locke's behavior, and comings and goings.

:yeah:

I remember when i first started watching the Lost series i was thinking " why do people hate Kate? she seems really nice..."

BUT
season 2 came and she got a lil whiny, and then season 3 made her VERY annoying.

Kate is Kate. She's no more flawed than the rest of them, imo. I may dislike the character's actions sometimes, but not the character herself. Same with Jack; I never got the intense Jack hate. I like Jack, always have. (I'm also keeping my eye on him as well.)

[ozanna]

I have to admit that I've never been a fan of Kate - I can't say why exactly, but I find her to be deceitful and manipulative ! Oh OK, aren't they all, well some more so than others. I'm just not a fan of the character.

When the transceiver crew are returning to the beach, Sawyer wants to go straight back, the rest want to camp for the night. Kate says he won't make it. He ask why and she says "Trust me". Later she says she has trust issues.

They set up camp and decide they won't tell the beach people what happened with the transceiver etc. because they don't want to destroy their hope. Kate remarks "So we lie". But she doesn't. She goes straight back to Jack and tells him the truth. Which is very noble and honest, but shouldn't she have shared that with Sayid and co. Her action is already causing a rift in the camp. FF to S3E22, again involving Sayid, they decide to keep the information about Naomi from Jack, because of his involvement with the Others, and they don't trust him. So she goes straight off and tells him.

In Kate's FB in Australia with Ray, he tells her "everyone deserves a fresh start".

Locke finds Vincent and tells Michael he is tethered to a tree, and he should be the one to tell Walt. Says he knows that Walt lost his Mom and that Michael should be the one to return his dog. This was similar to Locke's story to Sawyer about the dog that turned up on his mother's doorstep after her daughter died, and stayed with her until she died, and then just disappeared.

Sawyer botched up the mercy killing of the Marshal and looked genuinely distraught. Maybe he should have let Kate do it after all.

[AChristianShephard]

Sawyers nowhere near as annoying as I remember, must be cause im armed with the knowledge that he's loyal to his friends.

[Kenji III]

Sawyer's never been annoying. How dare you say that!

I started my LOST rewatch the day after the Season 5 finale aired so I'm probably much farther than the rest of you. I didn't think this would happen but my opinion is changing. For years now I used to be a googly eyed Kate fan. Now I'm not so much. In the first episodes when she acts like she is better than Sawyer and puts Jack on a pedestal saying to Sawyer "You're actually comparing yourself to Jack?" really bugged me. Like she has the right to be act that way after all she had done in her past.

Least Sawyer ends up redeeming himself.

Has Kate ever admitted she made a mistake? I don't think so.

By the end of my rewatch I'm gonna be cleaning out my Kleenexes with Lostaway cause Claire's most likely dead.

And she's the best female character on the show.

[Captain]

Sawyer's never been annoying. How dare you say that!

When Sawyer was refusing to give/tell them anything about Shannon's inhalers, he was really rubbing me the wrong way. :mad:

[AChristianShephard]

Sawyer's never been annoying. How dare you say that!

You never found his racist aggressive violent thieving nature annoying?

He was horrible in the first few episodes, not a single redeeming feature.

Well, apart from being hunky.

[Kenji III]

To be honest I've never found Sawyer to be annoying.

Ever.

Guess cause I relate to him more than the rest of the cast.

[ozanna]

Wow, I'm feeling the Sawyer love here :Hippy: Well at least not quite so much hate as there was !

But he sure was an ass to begin with. The first hint that he wasn't quite as bad as he wanted people to think he was was his reaction when he botched up killing the Marshal. And later on when he helped Claire with the info for the dead passengers and her Remembrance service. Ok so he had pilfered the stuff in the first place but she spoke to him like he was a human being and he responded accordingly.

Sawyer had never had friends and he wasn't about to start now, with people he assumed he would never see again in his life. I actually thought that Sawyer was probably the most honest (Ok I use the term loosely !) person on the island as far as reality was concerned. He saw things for what they were, no :bs: And he was a good judge of character. The antics he got up to to make people dislike him were comical !

[ZIA]

When Sawyer was refusing to give/tell them anything about Shannon's inhalers, he was really rubbing me the wrong way. :mad:

Oh absolutely. I have asthma, and I know exactly how it feels. Man, I can barely watch that scene to be honest, but my point is that it's exactly the wrong time to be stubborn and ridiculous, just to prove a point, while someone needs a damned rescue inhaler before they pass out and die. Other than that incident, he's one of my favorites.

[ozanna]

I definitely agree with you there, Zia, and you know how I feel about Sawyer ! But it is actually painful to watch, Maggie Grace did a great job. And I could understand Sawyers feelings about Jack just barging into his tent and looking for stuff, up to a point but, take it out on Jack, not some poor innocent girl who he'd been purving on not long ago :mad:

Did Sawyer really want to die, or was it all just a bluff.

[Lostaway]

By the end of my rewatch I'm gonna be cleaning out my Kleenexes with Lostaway cause Claire's most likely dead.

.


How dare you say that! :p

[ZIA]

Did Sawyer really want to die, or was it all just a bluff.

He didn't want to die at all. It was a duel for power between Sawyer and Jack, using Sayid as the mediary. (Unfortunately for Sayid)

[Dew]

Are we going to re-watch this episode together before the next group of episodes start?

[ZIA]

I have to think when. What about Monday when I get home? 8PMish your time ok? Let's see if Brian wants to watch with us too! :D

[Dew]

Works for me. :D **pencils in on calendar**

[ZIA]

Me too! I'll be done by 6 PM. :D

[ozanna]

Good morning everyone :) I might even do a "drive by" if thats OK with you ?

Sawyer and his death wish - I think he thought he wanted to die, that he deserved to die, he knew he would never measure up to Jack, and Kate just kept letting him know that he couldn't !

[merry slug]

OMG what is going on with Locke at the end of this episode lol.

Woah that was cr-ee-py!

It can't be flock, can it? Nah, it simply cant. It was a clever storytelling device.
CAN IT?
Genius.

He def knows something about Walt, why was he looking at him that way?
Interesting that Walt has not been shown as a factor yet (apart from the Red Herring that was the comic book).

HOw about when Jack saw his dad, followed him, and Locke came out of the bushes with the boar? Uh oh!

[merry slug]

I have to think when. What about Monday when I get home? 8PMish your time ok? Let's see if Brian wants to watch with us too! :D

Count me in :)

[Dew]

Yay merry. The more the merrier. :D

:hyper:

[ZIA]

OMG! We're going to have a blast. All we need now is Brian! :)

*jumps up and down*

[Dew]

Yeah Brian. He can sync us to hit the play button at the same time. LOL

[Brian]

That didn't work so well last time. ;)

[ZIA]

OMGLOL! That night was TOO much fun.

[AChristianShephard]

I thought you cats had already watched this episode?

[ZIA]

Yeah, but it's fun to watch it live together and post. You should join us. :)

[ozanna]

Yeah, but it's fun to watch it live together and post. You should join us. :)

Not so easy when you're from the wrong end of the world, Zia ! Although isn't that what we're doing now ? :D

[Dew]

Less than 24 hours for me. :hyper:

[ZIA]

If anyone wants to watch 'Tabula Rasa' live, we're watching on Monday at 8PM EST.

[ozanna]

I'm guessing its just under an hour for me - but I could be wrong ! I hope to catch up at some time ! :)
Its Tuesday 9.15 a.m.

[ZIA]

You are correct. That's awesome! :)

[ozanna]

Ok, Zia, see you soon !

[ZIA]

Cool! I'm trying to find an image to start the threads back up with this year. I think Merry is watching live with us tonight too. Should be super fun!! :D

[ZIA]

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u34/zia29112/LOST%20Stuff/300px-Lost-season1.jpg
Watch 'Tabula Rasa' live and post!!
Monday at 8PM EST/5PM PST.

[Dew]

I am here. :D

[Lostaway]

Me as well.

[ZIA]

I'm ready. :)

I paused at "Previously on LOST..."

[ZIA]

Are we ready? *Hits PLAY* Nah, I'm still paused.

[AChristianShephard]

Woah, awesome timing, hold up, ive just finished work.

[Dew]

Paused on Tabula Rasa on the menu

[ZIA]

LMAO! I'm having a "Caprica" FB! :D

[Lostaway]

I've already begun watching :p

[Dew]

Where is Brian?

[ZIA]

I was just wondering that. Brian?

[AChristianShephard]

OK im ready
1.10am here

YAWN!

[Dew]

Like I said, I am on the menu and listening to the ocean in the background with the dot next to Episode 2. Waiting to hit play on by someone's command. ;)

[Dew]

Is Brian logged in?

[ZIA]

Yeah, I see him. He'll be along, I'm sure.

YAY! Let's watch.

PLAY. :)

[Dew]

I Pm'd him and missed play. Marone!

[AChristianShephard]

Same here Dew, that water is very relaxing :)


DAMMIT, need pee pee now



nah jokes.

[ZIA]

Ok, Beach opening scene.

[Dew]

Tell me the time and I will FF

[ZIA]

I paused at Sayid saying "no one's going to tell them anything" at the campfire. It's ok if we're almost perfect, right? Brian is going to crack up when he sees this. LOL.

[AChristianShephard]

Kate mings in her photocopy :pirate:

That should get Bri Bri in here.

[ZIA]

Kate looks so much younger in this episode. I can't get over how clean everyone is. LOL. :)

[Dew]

I knew it! Kate is Annie. :D

[AChristianShephard]

Al Jezerra :rolleyez:

[ZIA]

OMG. She is!

I love Hurley's line, "Dude, she looks pretty hardcore."

[Dew]

Sayid is the leader. lol

[ZIA]

Good times. :) He was actually doing a good job too.

[Dew]

Oh yeah promise to say nothing and then go running to Jack Kate. Liar, Liar!

[Dew]

Jack tells the truth for the only time in 5 seasons. "I don't know anything." ROFL

[ZIA]

Oh yeah promise to say nothing and then go running to Jack Kate. Liar, Liar!

Right, and then acts innocent asking fake exploratory questions. They started out passive-agressive. He knows. He doesn't say anything. She knows. She doesn't say anything. It's a game they're not playing together. It's funny, really.

Damn! There are SO MANY excellent one-liners in this episode!!

[Dew]

I got trust issues - Kate tells the truth for the 1st time in 5 seasons. Jack and Kate are on a roll. ;)

[ZIA]

Whoa. I always forget Jin was basically a Korean hitman.

[Dew]

Damn the music was really excellent in the beginning of the series. :D

[Brian]

Heh, don't wait on me. I just got home from work. It's going to be a while before I can hit the button. ;) :)

[AChristianShephard]

Charlies tried flirting with 3 girls in 3 eps now lol, my kinda guy.
Claire found him charming though, god bless Australian women.

[ZIA]

DAMN!

I jumped when the Marshall grabbed Kate around the neck! You know, because I've never seen this ever before. ;)

Patsy Cline FTFW!

[ZIA]

"My name's not Annie." LIAR!!!!

Make up your mind! :rotfl:

[ZIA]

See? Now Jack isn't even paying any attention to how any of the survivors feel having to listen to the Marshall suffer and die. He knows damned well he's not going to live, but Jack just can't let it go.

[Lostaway]

Charlies tried flirting with 3 girls in 3 eps now lol, my kinda guy.
Claire found him charming though, god bless Australian women.

Hell to the yes.

[Dew]

The marshal is so frakkin arrogant.

[ozanna]

And so the subterfuge begins. Why do these people go on expeditions to find out stuff, but then opt to not tell anybody anything in case they lose hope. I really had hopes for Sayid, but he's just as devious as everybody else !

Kate - "So we lie". Never a truer word spoken !

Boone to Sawyer: "Dick !"

Sawyer to Boone: "A little louder !"

Charlie was really making the most of his "one hit wonder" but it wasn't that successful ! But he was considerate of Claire's predicament.

What is it with nearly dead people grabbing Kate round the neck !

[ZIA]

The marshal is so frakkin arrogant.

Yeah, I'm not losing any sleep over that one dying.

[Dew]

Kate plays Sawyer and Sawyer screws it up. Sheesh.

[Lostaway]

I thought Boone called Sawyer a "Prick"

[ZIA]

With the gun? It seemed like they were both trying to con each other. Looking back, I have to think Sawyer already had Kate all figured out with the whole Marshall deal.

[AChristianShephard]

The farmer guy was pretty armless really.

We never found out what chased Michael into Suns bosom did we, no other Polar Bears on island eh?

[ZIA]

I thought Boone called Sawyer a "Prick"

Did he? That's even better. LOL.

[Dew]

3 days ago we all died - Jack. :hmm:

[ZIA]

Hmm. It's all there, isn't it?

[Dew]

I miss Hurley and his CD player. :(

[ZIA]

Yeah, I really love this song and it's positive vibe. :)

[Dew]

What a closing scene with Locke. He looks just demonic. :scared:

[Lostaway]

When I first saw this episode, I was under the impression that Locke was a pedo...

[ZIA]

Walt and Vincent was awesome. Aw. I loved creepy little Walt. :)

[ozanna]

The farmer guy was pretty armless really.

We never found out what chased Michael into Suns bosom did we, no other Polar Bears on island eh?

Ummm - "armless" - well someone had to do it I guess ! :rolleyez:

[Dew]

Are we watching E3 tomorrow since no Fringe?

[AChristianShephard]

Oh come on, its late Xx

Never been a big fan of this episode, I remember back in the day being slightly unsure of the shows direction.

Fantastic ending though.

[ZIA]

Are we watching E3 tomorrow since no Fringe?

This is E3 for this week. We're doing great so far. I already have E4, E5, & E6 ready to go for Wednesday. :)

[Dew]

Oooops I mean E4. Are you going to watch all 3 on Wed? On line or on your own?

[ZIA]

I think I can manage one episode "live" a week right now. I really, really enjoy it. If we keep going, we keep going, right? Oops! I know you're exactly like me in that way, LOL! :D

[Dew]

Well let me know the next live one and I will save it. I can then watch the other 2 myself. :)

[ozanna]

When Michael accidentally barged in on Sun washing I think he was running away from the boars, while he was looking for Vincent.

I'm pretty sure Boone called Sawyer "Dick" not that it really matters.

I think Sawyer knew exactly what Kate was up to with the Marshall, and he wanted to score points with her, but he stuffed up royally. Leaving Jack to sort it out.

[ZIA]

Well let me know the next live one and I will save it. I can then watch the other 2 myself. :)

We just have to figure out which one we like the best. :)

[Max]

Hey Zia! Thanks for the invite. Came in way too late and really just watch Tabula Rasa the other day.

I always thought it was telling to see how much Sawyer struggled after shooting the marshall and him not dying. He knew that Jack wouldn't be able to do it, said so himself being a doctor. But after Jack stomped into the tent, the look on Sawyer's face was really sad.

I guess we just knew a decent guy was in there somewhere! Ozanna, I think he was trying to score points too. But did it look like it worked????

[Dew]

blair :clap:

[ZIA]

Hey blair! Better late than never, that's what I always say. :)

[ozanna]

Hi, Blair - welcome :) Sawyer does that tragic, haunted look so well ! When he mistakenly killed the shrimp guy back in Sydney he had that same look on his face.

Kate sure knows how to mess with Sawyer's head ! He thinks he's got her sussed, but she's almost sneakier and more cunning than he is ! I'm glad she looked out for Ray though :)

[Max]

Thanks for the warm welcome, guys!

I was just thinking today that Kate gave Jack the opportunity to learn exactly what she had done. She probably had her little speech all set up and ready to explain who she was and why she had killed Wayne or Tom or whomever. But no. Jack said nuh uh. Don't wanna know, don't care.....BUT.....

We come to Whatever the Case May Be and he pounds her with what the heck that little airplane means to her. She screams what it means, that it belongs to the man she loved. He's not for that. He wants to know know know. wtf....he just told her he didn't want to know. So when he finds out she killed the man she loved, he walks away from her sobbing. Didn't like it. Not at all. Jack's my hero, but i'll tell ya, he can make some seriously wrong decisions. Keep with the program man! You either want to know what she did or you don't.

Rant over.

[ZIA]

"He's got a helluva mortgage." ;)

[Max]

Hi, Blair - welcome :) Sawyer does that tragic, haunted look so well ! When he mistakenly killed the shrimp guy back in Sydney he had that same look on his face.

Kate sure knows how to mess with Sawyer's head ! He thinks he's got her sussed, but she's almost sneakier and more cunning than he is ! I'm glad she looked out for Ray though :)

Kate has messed with Sawyer's head the whole time. I'm glad about Ray too. Plus she puts the oxygen thingy on the marshall! I wouldn't have.:rolleyez:

[Lostaway]

I like the Marshall. All he was doing was his Job.


If capturing cons makes him a douche... well, I dunno.

[ZIA]

I don't think capturing Kate was my issue with him. It was more the creepy cat and mouse game he had going on with her the whole time.

[Max]

Absolutely. He was getting a rise out of it.

[Dew]

And Kate is a she. :hmm: ;)

[ZIA]

Absolutely. He was getting a rise out of it.

It always bothered me that Kate even had the Marshall's phone number. I have to assume he gave it to her ar some point, because he mentioned that she's called him before. Just weird. Who does that? "Oh hey, it's me. Um. Are you still stalking me?" LOL.

[Lostaway]

It's a criminal thing. Ever see that movie based on a true story about Leonardo dicaprio ripping off several banks?

He calls the guy who is coming after him every christmas.

[ozanna]

That was a good movie, Ian, its almost like having someone chasing them makes them feel important. If the Marshal had suddenly stopped chasing Kate, she would possibly have felt like she'd been abandoned. She needed him to give her some purpose in life. With Jack it was having someone to look up to, the hero. With Sawyer it was someone she felt that she was superior too, and someone she could manipulate. There was no way she could have killed the Marshal herself, that would have been cheating. So she had to keep pestering Jack about how the poor guy was. The fact that Sawyer took the bait and tried to kill him took all the guilt away from her and shared it equally between Sawyer and Jack. It was way too personal for her to do it herself.

[ZIA]

I've never seen the movie, but Sawyer started it by saying, I'd hate to be in your shoes right now. You have the gun, and so on...It's a classic reverse con technique. The end result is always the same. The person either gives the con the gun (here, you have it now. You do it) or he could have easily convinced her that it was her idea to kill the Marshal. (He's suffering and is going to continue suffering, if no one does anything.)

[LostinCoffs]

OK. Just finished watching.

I definately think Sawyer had Kate sussed well before they had that campfire conversation! I got the impression he knew she was the fugitive, and that he was going to use her desire to get rid of the Marshall to get that gun back in his own waist band!. But hey she used him so it worked out for her

I was not sure what they were trying to do with that Locke scene at the end. He just did a nice thing to help Michael, but then made him look so evil and creepy. Like perhaps he was setting Michael up for something / going to make him pay for something?? Hmm. Was he bad anti locke at some times in that timeline??

I kept getting distracted by how young and hot Jack looked.. he he he.

[Lostaway]

I just looked it up, it's called "Catch me if you can."


Sound Kate like? :p

[ZIA]

Heh. Yeah, a little. I've still never seen the movie though. :p

[Dew]

I have wondered about Kate having the Marshal's telephone number and what the Marshal said to Jack about no matter what don't believe her, blah blah blah. Did he have a fling with Kate and she burned him? Seems that his pursuit of her has a bit of personal revenge to it.

[ZIA]

Yeah, that's what I was saying. It's some bizarre game. I always thought there was more to that story than we saw in the episodes.

[Dew]

A sicko bizarre game at that.

[ZIA]

Yeah, it seemed like too much, you know? So, why show Locke with a serial killer look on his face at the end of the episode?

[Dew]

Yeah that too. I remember watching this episode with a friend when it first aired and I just shivered at that look. I told my friend that Locke's look was demonic and he was possessed or not what he seems at the very least. Possessed scared me. Me no likey possessed. :no:

[ZIA]

:D

[ozanna]

Good morning all ! Wow - OT - its raining !

Yes, definitely something bizarre going on with Kate and the Marshal - he was taunting her, but she was taunting him too. This was why she couldn't kill him herself - that would not have been part of the game. Kate is quite capable of killing, buts its not good ethics to kill your opponent ! She appeared to want to keep him alive, but I don't think she wanted him to suffer. Then along comes Sawyer, quite happy to get his gun out of his pants at the first opportunity :D and help the "damsel in distress".

I still think there was more going on with Kate than we know, which is why the Marshal was so wary of her. I think she may have done something far worse than anything we know about as yet, and she is also extremely cunning. Why was her mother scared of her ? Army Dad seemed to be aware that there was something not quite right with her, too. Anyone remember ? * runs off to wash dishes !*

S2 - "What Kate Did". Kate finds out that Wayne is her real father and goes to visit Sam Austen to ask him why he never told her he wasn't her real father. He tells her he was afraid she would have killed Wayne because of the way he treated her mother. He told her she had murder in her heart, whereas he didn't. And this coming from a step-daddy who said he loved her.

[World Walker]

Our very first, "Previously on LOST," fills my heart with joy!

Our very first, "freckles," from Sawyer.

Our very first tarp tent over the marshall.

Our very first fully centric flashback goes to Kate. Also, I don't recall the famous wooshing sound in the first two episodes. Looks like we've got our very first whoosh with that, as well.

Whew! :nanabobo:

So, Annie was Kate's alias in Australia. No wonder so many people insist she is the Annie from Ben's Season 3 flashback. Somehow, I still heavily doubt it.

Kate claims she's canadian during the breakfast scene. If I remember correctly, this is a lie, right? If so, that's an interesting parallel to all the Others (Ethan, for example) who seem to say they're canadian. Also, Bonnie and Greta from the Looking Glass were supposed to be on assignment in Canada. Strange emphasis on a place that seemingly has little to do with our story.

Danielle's message really is a headscratcher. I understand how she came to record it shortly before Alex was born. Yet if it happened 16 years ago in 1988, how in the world did the Dharma Initiative (who don't fall until 1992) just let that message play out for four years? The only explanation I can come up with is that in the final years of the DI, the conflict with the Others intensifies dramatically and they lose access to certain sites outside their main barracks. The radio tower was pretty darned far out there, so it's possible the DI had no access to the tower b/c of the conflict with the Others.

That shot of the fuselage with the stormy sky in the background is absolutely gorgeous. *Swoons*

"Sun...I love you." For a moment, I could see a glimpse of the Jin we all know and love buried deep inside that man.

LOL! Hurley was really playing it cool with Kate, wasn't he. The way he bolted off was great. Man can move!

So, Tabula Rasa = blank slate. "Everyone deserves a fresh start." Is this what we're going to see in Season 6? Does Jacob believe in this philosophy of betterment? From what we know so far, it sure seems like this is something Jacob would agree with. Remember, "It only ends once. Everything that comes before is just progress." Was the first go through (what we've seen in seasons 1-5) supposed progress? Will we see improvement in the lives of our losties if/when we see the possible alternate timeline scenario play out? Very intriguing stuff.

"I'm gonna get your dog back as soon as it stops raining." Oh, Michael, the gods have it out for you on this island, my man. Enjoy season 1 while it lasts. It'll only get worse.

Harold Perinneau does a wonderful job of being very awkward. Take the half-naked Sun bathing scene for example.

I think it important to note the Marshall says, "No matter how she makes you feel," during his talk with Jack to persuade him not to trust Kate. He also says, "She got to you, too, huh?" Would this be a subtle indication that Kate and the marshall perhaps did have some history during their games of cat and mouse? We'll probably never get an answer to that, but it does seem heavily implied.

Josh Holloway's acting in the botched shooting of the marshall was brilliant. Sawyer's shaking hands weren't even able to allow him proper use of his lighter for a smoke. He was greatly unnerved by what I interpret to be a good act on his part gone wrong. We've seen the good intentions pave the way to hell theme a lot on this show. Excellent scene overall.

Awwww, I forgot about this! Our very first corny ending complete with feel good music. That having been said, I love the idea of the music originating from Hurley's cd player and I love even more that the juice runs out midway through the season. Very creative.

Really liked the fruit toss between Sayid and Sawyer, followed by the latter's haunted look. The Vincent/Walt reunion almost teared me up because I know the last time Walt ever sees his dog will be the end of season 1. How sad!

The million dollar question: what is going through Locke's mind at the end of the episode during that very strange stare? What I saw was Locke stood alone from the others, completely seperate, whereas everyone else seemed to be interacting with each other and the camp. Already, the writers are setting him up to seem special; set apart from the rest.

Overall, a great episode; one that hosted many of our very first moments for us LOST viewers. Cool eppy. :Cheers:

[ZIA]

LOL! Your post was cracking me up. I was sitting here reading it, and nodding my head in agreement. Where have you been all our lives? :D OMG! I love this episode. So many of our favorite quirky things, and great one-liners (that we all use in RL, if possible, lol!) I loved the music, the filming was brilliant, and the beach was beautiful.

[ozanna]

Our very first, "Previously on LOST," fills my heart with joy!

Kate claims she's canadian during the breakfast scene. If I remember correctly, this is a lie, right? If so, that's an interesting parallel to all the Others (Ethan, for example) who seem to say they're canadian. Also, Bonnie and Greta from the Looking Glass were supposed to be on assignment in Canada. Strange emphasis on a place that seemingly has little to do with our story.:Cheers:

Canada ! Hmmmm ! We know Kate comes from Iowa. What is it with Canada. Could it be a pseudonym for somewhere else ? As in Frank's immortal words - "We're not going to Guam, are we ?" We know Ethan was born on the Island - Juliet delivered him. Bonnie and Greta had been working with Mikhail who seemed to have his own agenda. Portland is another place that crops up from time to time. Just a thought.

And Joe Purdie's "Wash Away" is for every more my favorite piece of music, and that montage was heartbreaking an moving ! I may have said this before !

[World Walker]

LOL! Your post was cracking me up. I was sitting here reading it, and nodding my head in agreement. Where have you been all our lives?

Well, I've been lurking since mid-season 3. I know, shame on me, but better late than never, right? :)

Canada ! Hmmmm ! We know Kate comes from Iowa. What is it with Canada. Could it be a pseudonym for somewhere else ? As in Frank's immortal words - "We're not going to Guam, are we ?" We know Ethan was born on the Island - Juliet delivered him. Bonnie and Greta had been working with Mikhail who seemed to have his own agenda. Portland is another place that crops up from time to time. Just a thought.

The Others seem to be very active with the outside world. I tend to forget that every time I see them in their ragged bum clothing. They have connections on the outside. Remember how much money it was implied that Ben had on the outside? Also, don't forget the off-island Other, Jill, from the butcher shop in season 5. There's far more to the Others than we know and at this point we've learned a lot.

[ZIA]

Well, I've been lurking since mid-season 3. I know, shame on me, but better late than never, right? :)

Exactly right! Late is always better than never, besides...we're just getting started. :)

[abcdxyz]

"I'm gonna get your dog back as soon as it stops raining." Oh, Michael, the gods have it out for you on this island, my man. Enjoy season 1 while it lasts. It'll only get worse.


It wasn't until this rewatch that I realized that this was another "Walt" moment. Walt's desire for the rain to stop actually MADE it stop, I believe.

[World Walker]

It wasn't until this rewatch that I realized that this was another "Walt" moment. Walt's desire for the rain to stop actually MADE it stop, I believe.

Great catch and obvious now that you point it out! :)

[turiel]

Hmm I thought even in S1 that it was obvious (after watching the Special episode and then thinking back to this scene). Makes me wonder what I've missed and other people have thought are obvious!

[AChristianShephard]

It suddenly seems really obvious to me now that Kate is in fact Annie.

I mean come on, Kate serves no other purpose in this show other that looking ridiculously cute. The age difference is easily explainable as being the island doing, or maybe something Jacob granted her, and is it not strange that she was desperate to get away from the island even though she had been running from the law? I reckon the Marshall was an other too.

I'm telling you, we are in for the mother of all flashbacks in Season 6.

She's Annie.

There are plot holes, I admit. She must have a secret agenda.

But she is Annie.

[Locke 'n' Load]

I have wondered about Kate having the Marshal's telephone number and what the Marshal said to Jack about no matter what don't believe her, blah blah blah. Did he have a fling with Kate and she burned him? Seems that his pursuit of her has a bit of personal revenge to it.

Yeah, I always thought this, too! There was something more to their relationship than what we are shown. I don't know what, though. I also don't think we will find out exactly what Kate did until the very end of the season. I'm guessing it will be a big reveal. She was quite happy to leave the island (S4?) when she realized that all the world knew (via Miles) what she done was what we were shown and not what REALLY happened.

Yeah that too. I remember watching this episode with a friend when it first aired and I just shivered at that look. I told my friend that Locke's look was demonic and he was possessed or not what he seems at the very least. Possessed scared me. Me no likey possessed. :no:

Maybe because I'm a Locke fan, I seem to have a different perspective on his character and may well be proved wrong, but I certainly hope not. :D I didn't see his facial expression as evil or malicious - just thoughtful, and perhaps grateful that he was alive and able to help others. Maybe he is already Locke2, and the character that I love is someone else (MiB, AJ?), but I still love him, no matter who he is.

[Dew]

I don't hate Locke at all. There was just something in his eyes that made me feel uneasy. TOQ is one of my favorite actors. If his role called for ambiguity then he did his job to a T. I think the eyes are the windows to anyone's soul and no matter what words are spoken or the body language, it is all there in the eyes. :)

[Locke 'n' Load]

I don't hate Locke at all. :)

I know you don't, Dew! And I enjoy reading your posts and others about Locke. I was just trying to explain how I could go a little overboard trying to protect him. :D I seem to love him, like you love Frank, and Ozanna loves Sawyer! :throb:

[Dew]

Hell yeah I understand. :naughty:

Frank :swoon:

[ZIA]

It suddenly seems really obvious to me now that Kate is in fact Annie.

She's Annie.

There are plot holes, I admit. She must have a secret agenda.

But she is Annie.

OMG! Another convert? "They" got to you too?

*kills self*

[Locke 'n' Load]

I knew you would! :thumbs_up

[ZIA]

Yeah. LMAO!! :D

I'm going to stab myself repeatedly until I can't take it anymore. Oh wait.

[ozanna]

In the immortal words of Sawyer -
Who the hell's Annie ! (or Ethan. Or Richard. Or Wayne. Or Nikki. Or Paolo. And so on.)
But if Kate was Annie and she was raised on the island with Ben, wouldn't her mother have wondered where she was ? OK, she wasn't the best mother in the world, but you'd think she would have noticed if the child wasn't there. Maybe there is a Kate and an Annie - you know, like two of them. Then Jack and Sawyer could have one each. Sort of.

[ZIA]

Are you guys frakking kidding me? Were you all escorted into Room 23 when I was gone? Who are you people, and what have you done with my best friends? :p

I always try to fall on a knife when Annie conversations come up. LOL!

[Max]

i think that diane is annie.

[Locke 'n' Load]

Please, Zia, do not go to the Annie thread, we want you alive and well!

[Dew]

Who's Annie?

[ozanna]

Huh ! :confused::rolleyes::eek::crazy1::Cheers:

[ZIA]

I <3 The Annie thread. It's way too hilarious. :D

[AChristianShephard]

Don't do it Zia, i'm too young to be a widow.

For all of you that don't believe Kate is Annie, I think you have failed to understand the basics of how this show works.

Kate & 5years of no point - Annie.

:dj:

[ZIA]

Don't do it Zia, i'm too young to be a widow. :dj:

;) I won't. :awwhug:

What are you saying about 5 years? There was no point? Here we go...LOL. Longest hiatus rewatch thread in history.

[AChristianShephard]

5years of Kate being pointless is what I meant. :Cheers:

She's Annie

x

[ZIA]

Someone save me from the Kate-haters! ;)