View Full Version : Hiatus Rewatch (06/03/09-06/10/09)-S1E4: Walkabout
This is the discussion thread for the LOST-TV Hiatus Rewatch - Season 1 Episode 4 , "Walkabout"
Written by : David Fury
The original (or as close to original as exists) thread for this episode can be found here (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6140).
General questions about the LOST-TV Hiatus Rewatch can be posted in the LOST-TV Hiatus Rewatch thread (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37370).
Episode Description:
When boar are discovered on the island, Locke takes Kate and Michael hunting. Locke sees the monster. Jack decides the fuselage must be burned, and Claire holds a funeral service for the victims.
Here's what I noticed:
Opening scene is close up of Locke's eye (similar to Pilot)
Jack saves Charlie YET AGAIN by running back and helping him escape being trampled by a wild boar. Seems the island has been trying to kill Charlie from the get go.
Same scene Sawyer kind of has his arm around Kate, acting protective of her
Kate says she is a vegetarian? Have we seen anything to the contrary? "Taco night" comes to mind - I guess they could have been veggie tacos
Repeated phrases - Rose to Jack "you don't have to keep your promise". Same thing Sara told him and I think Boone as well.
Locke saw Smokey, said he didn't
Locke in fb speaking to a woman (Helen) - obviously a phone sex person that can't meet him in person/charges him to talk to her. Was the woman he was involved with later named Helen and if so coincidence or did they change the character?
That's all I got for now :)
iwanttobelost
06-20-07, 12:48 PM
Locke in fb speaking to a woman (Helen) - obviously a phone sex person that can't meet him in person/charges him to talk to her. Was the woman he was involved with later named Helen and if so coincidence or did they change the character?
The phone sex girl was after he was involved with Helen that was why he called the girl Helen to feel like they were still together. :)
The phone sex girl was after he was involved with Helen that was why he called the girl Helen to feel like they were still together. :)
Oh yes that makes sense, he was paralyzed when he was talking to the phone sex girl and he wasn't when he was with Helen. Thanks for clearing that one up for me, so hard to keep it all straight!
Hodgepodge
06-20-07, 05:33 PM
I haven't rewatched it yet, but I do remember my first OMG moment. Locke in that wheelchair. I remember it distinctly! All of the Hodgepodge's looking around at each other in amazement. I'll never forget that as long as I live.
I miss the time we all spent watching the series. Maybe moving it back to a more decent hour will allow us to recapture that family time. I don't even know if they've kept up with Lost. I'll have to ask them.
ozchick
06-21-07, 01:09 AM
This episode contains one of my most favorite shout outs of the series. In the first flashback Randy asks Locke for the TPS reports! :rotfl: If you haven't seen Office Space, add it to your Netflix list NOW!
This is the first episode where we see Sun with plants. She's holding some when Michael first asks her to watch Walt, then she has, I think aloe, that she uses as a toothbrush.
I enjoyed the scene of Charlie and Hurley having fun together trying to catch the fish.
Rose's story about why she's holding Bernard's ring seems a little contradictory to what we learn later in SOS, but I'm willing to chalk that up to TPTB not having thought through their whole story yet.
In the flashback when Locke is talking to "Helen", who I agree is a phone sex operator (at $89.95 an hour!), there's some sort of machine on the bedside table that has a glowing screen on it. During the conversation he turns it off. Any ideas on what it is? Here's a shot:
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l256/ozgirl100/normal_walkabout362.jpg
And here it is after he turns the screen off:
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l256/ozgirl100/normal_walkabout363.jpg
One more, closer:
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l256/ozgirl100/normal_walkabout364.jpg
One last thing, the music during the FB after the wheelchair reveal, when Locke is standing up on the beach for the first time is gorgeous!
I haven't re-watched yet, but your question is exactly my question from Season 1!! Someone told me it was a medical monitoring device of some kind at the time, but I can't remember what it would be monitoring since Locke's spine was crushed.
I'm sure someone else will remember.:)
Unlocke Locke
06-21-07, 02:13 AM
Jack's dad is wearing white shoes with a dark suit
At the end of the scene where Locke is on the phone with his buddy at the office, there are monster noises.
Love the scenes between Charlie and Hurley. It just won't be the same without that. :(
I love Walkabout. It's always been a favorite for many reasons, but I love how the chararters start to take on a life of their own and find their place in this new pseudo-society.
One of my favorite scenes is when Locke throws the knife seemingly out of nowhere and then says "We hunt." He then proceeds to tell them expertly how to do it. This episode (we/I thought) defined Locke as a provider, hunter, a leader. I remember I wanted to rely on that.
So, what happened...
Michael asks Kate "What were you doing in Australia?" as Locke Shh's her. Denied.
It's also the first time we hear "Don't tell me what I can't do."
And just like you Hodge, I almost had a stroke the first time I saw Locke in a wheelchair too. ;)
Also, I am really loving the music this time around!
Have a great night!
Darkrogue
06-21-07, 10:06 AM
Wow. Who could forget this one? Awesome episode, and one of my all-time favorites!
Initial observations:
Already we see some tension between Sayid and Jack. Strangely enough, I actually sided with Jack over the body-burning debate.
How funny that Locke’s job consisted of entering numbers and pushing buttons. Basically he went from doing this in the “real world” to doing the exact same thing on an island.
I wonder if this ever occurred to him when he was down in the hatch, pushing the button and thinking it was his “destiny” to do so? ;)
Has anyone ever translated what Sun says to Walt after Michael pushes him off on her (a funny scene, btw). It seemed an awful lot like something along the lines of “your father’s kind of a tool, isn’t he?” :D It made me laugh how Michael used cave-man talk and hand gestures when he spoke to her.
Already everyone is gravitating to Jack to do things (arrange/speak at the memorial, see about Rose, etc.).
Why does Shannon go to Charlie of all people, for fish? I suppose she sensed how easy it would be to shnooker him: when she approached him, the poor guy responded like a puppy invited for a walk. He was clearly lying or at least exaggerating about his fishing skills, seeing as how he then went to Hurley for help.
Sawyer “being nice” in spite of himself when he hands Claire the wallets. A little of his good side showing, even though it’s clear he wants to maintain the bad-guy front. Nice scene, that.
I notice Kate and Sayid working together here, and they tend to do so quite a bit throughout the beginning of the series. They both seem to connect very well—a relationship that has fallen by the wayside. I love Kate taking initiative and doing things of her own volition. Again, I miss this Kate.
Jack saves Charlie YET AGAIN by running back and helping him escape being trampled by a wild boar. Seems the island has been trying to kill Charlie from the get go.
Yep, and yet another thing to add to the list. (Yeah, I’m keeping tabs on this one. Heh. I think I’m up to five already. Poor Charlie.)
Somehow the chaos of the opening boar scene reminded me of the Alpha Beta pig prank scene from Revenge of the Nerds. Hilarious!
Kate says she is a vegetarian? Have we seen anything to the contrary? "Taco night" comes to mind - I guess they could have been veggie tacos
That line struck me as strange as well, hearing it now. I can’t recall ever having heard of this anywhere else. Hmm. Something else to keep in mind...
I haven't rewatched it yet, but I do remember my first OMG moment. Locke in that wheelchair.
Oh, yeah.
Locke was at his best in Season 1, definitely. I loved the hell out of him throughout the entire first season run (he became a little too cryptic and crazy for me later). This was the Locke I loved, and the person to whom I would have been most apt to listen. He was the guy I would have trusted above anyone.
The scene at the end of this episode was golden. I still think this ranks as the coolest reveal ever. It definitely had me going "whoa!". It really caught me off-guard, and had me thinking 'what the hell?'
This was the moment in which a great show became an awesome show. That moment when the camera pans back to reveal him in the chair, followed by the post-crash beach scene—wow. Magic, man!
As ZIA mentioned above, I think what helps make the scene so effective is definitely the music. There is something powerful about the music in itself, and it adds a real triumphant flavor to the mood.
Love the scenes between Charlie and Hurley. It just won't be the same without that. :(
:sigh:
Stupid, stupid Darlton.
:cry: :banghead:
Jack saves Charlie YET AGAIN by running back and helping him escape being trampled by a wild boar. Seems the island has been trying to kill Charlie from the get go.
Locke saw Smokey, said he didn't
Locke in fb speaking to a woman (Helen) - obviously a phone sex person that can't meet him in person/charges him to talk to her. Was the woman he was involved with later named Helen and if so coincidence or did they change the character?
That's all I got for now :)
it seems that way to me too, that the island has it in for charlie since day 1. maybe smokie in the pilot was really going for charlie??? very final destination-ish, and i like the idea. charlie kept escaping death, and finally satisfied it in a VERY dignified way.
locke's first encounter with smokey is definatly one that tptb need to dive into further. i would like to see it from his p.o.v., what exactly he saw to say "i have looked into the eye of this island, and what i saw was beautiful".
This episode contains one of my most favorite shout outs of the series. In the first flashback Randy asks Locke for the TPS reports! :rotfl: If you haven't seen Office Space, add it to your Netflix list NOW!
This is the first episode where we see Sun with plants. She's holding some when Michael first asks her to watch Walt, then she has, I think aloe, that she uses as a toothbrush.
In the flashback when Locke is talking to "Helen", who I agree is a phone sex operator (at $89.95 an hour!), there's some sort of machine on the bedside table that has a glowing screen on it. During the conversation he turns it off. Any ideas on what it is? Here's a shot:
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l256/ozgirl100/normal_walkabout362.jpg
i wondered too, and my first thought was medical equiptment. but he has been paralyzed for some time.. (was it 4 months or 4 years?) what would still need to be monitored???
Already we see some tension between Sayid and Jack. Strangely enough, I actually sided with Jack over the body-burning debate.
Already everyone is gravitating to Jack to do things (arrange/speak at the memorial, see about Rose, etc.).
Sawyer “being nice” in spite of himself when he hands Claire the wallets. A little of his good side showing, even though it’s clear he wants to maintain the bad-guy front. Nice scene, that.
I notice Kate and Sayid working together here, and they tend to do so quite a bit throughout the beginning of the series. They both seem to connect very well—a relationship that has fallen by the wayside. I love Kate taking initiative and doing things of her own volition. Again, I miss this Kate.
jack and sayid, great tension. i think early on sayid shoulda knowcked the hell out of him and took the leadership position!
saywer has always shown that soft spot thoughout the show, just not always crystal clear. when it came to the marshall, he didnt do it because KATE wanted him to... he did it because he knew it was the right thing. same thing with the waletts.
i always thought kate and sayid would make a great leadership team, but kates problem (and it starts this early!) is her inability to keep secrets from jack.
the first time i watched this episode, i honestly thought locke was some type of army/defense/government person. till randy blew up his spot!
and the wheelchair reveal was an OMG! moment for sure. watching last night my wife actually changed her opinion back to locke being able to walk because of the crash, not the island.
Darkrogue
06-21-07, 12:00 PM
it seems that way to me too, that the island has it in for charlie since day 1. maybe smokie in the pilot was really going for charlie??? very final destination-ish, and i like the idea. charlie kept escaping death, and finally satisfied it in a VERY dignified way.
I’ve actually been thinking about that for a while, just as a way to justify in my own mind his death. I’ve got some pretty extensive thoughts on it that I’ll elaborate on in the future, although I don’t for one minute think it was a part of TPTB’s “grand plans”: I think it just works out to look that way. I don’t think they were thinking that far ahead, especially at this point in the series.
saywer has always shown that soft spot thoughout the show, just not always crystal clear. when it came to the marshall, he didnt do it because KATE wanted him to... he did it because he knew it was the right thing. same thing with the waletts.
Yes, I never thought Sawyer did that because he thought Kate wanted it. The guy was clearly a goner, and I think it is just another hint at Sawyer’s humanity. Yet, just like with everything else, he tries to cover it under the guise of being a jerk.
He was very awkward about the wallets, as well. He did not want to come off as too ‘caring’. “Aw, hell, just take ‘em.” I loved the way he approached that. :)
jack and sayid, great tension. i think early on sayid shoulda knowcked the hell out of him and took the leadership position!
:lol: I'll second that—even though at this point in the series, I didn’t really mind Jack. The most offensive thing to me about him at this point was that he was mildly dull.
i always thought kate and sayid would make a great leadership team, but kates problem (and it starts this early!) is her inability to keep secrets from jack.
Very true. She does the exact same thing here that she did with regard to Naomi: she goes against Sayid’s suggestion and tells Jack. I wonder if it has something to do with the fact that Jack was the first person she ‘connected with’ or really spoke to after the crash?
Another thing: This Randy fellow has consistently been a condescending jerk throughout his career path, hasn't he? :D He's the kind of idiot we've all worked with at one time or another: the guy who is the least deserving and/or capable of handling a position of authority, and yet he always seems to land just such a position, even though it never lasts long once those who hired him figure out what an incompetent asshat he is.
There is a personality-type label for that, and I can't remember off the top of my head which one.
Very true. She does the exact same thing here that she did with regard to Naomi: she goes against Sayid’s suggestion and tells Jack. I wonder if it has something to do with the fact that Jack was the first person she ‘connected with’ or really spoke to after the crash?
top of my head which one.
that was exactly what i was thinking. they got really close really fast. its almost like shes trying to "earn points" with him, and she does it by telling him info.
Dharma For One
06-21-07, 09:38 PM
In the flashback when Locke is talking to "Helen", who I agree is a phone sex operator (at $89.95 an hour!), there's some sort of machine on the bedside table that has a glowing screen on it. During the conversation he turns it off. Any ideas on what it is?
This is explained in the S1 DVD episode producer commentary. Are people buying the explanation? It sounds reasonable, but I'm not familiar with the equipment.
Also, on the phone sex: It could've been one of those "R rated" phone conversation/fantasy lines. I'd like to give Locke the benefit of the doubt here. I'm not sure why though. Lol!
Hodgepodge
06-21-07, 11:44 PM
I haven't re-watched yet, but your question is exactly my question from Season 1!! Someone told me it was a medical monitoring device of some kind at the time, but I can't remember what it would be monitoring since Locke's spine was crushed.
I'm sure someone else will remember.:)If I remember correctly, the speculation revolved around the machine stimulating Locke's legs muscles. To keep his legs from atrophying. Not sure if there was ever confirmation.
That makes total sense Hodgepodge. I had no idea that's what that machine was. Thanks.
One thing I noticed in this epi is when Locke is in the lunchroom and tells GL12 "Patience is the hallmark of a good leader" and then a couple of scenes later Jack is sitting with Rose on the beach and she remarks that he has a good soul, that he's patient and caring.
I also noticed the theme that really seems to be throughout Lost (and Jack himself) is if you save someone's life, you're then kind of responsible for it. Boone basically says this to Jack when he points out Rose up the beach. Isn't that kind of a Buddhist philosophy, or in an eastern religion of somekind?
This is explained in the S1 DVD episode producer commentary. Are people buying the explanation? It sounds reasonable, but I'm not familiar with the equipment.
Also, on the phone sex: It could've been one of those "R rated" phone conversation/fantasy lines. I'd like to give Locke the benefit of the doubt here. I'm not sure why though. Lol!
I don't remember the monitor being explained in the commentary. Can you confirm this?
Darkrogue-I'm with you, that scene in the end is exactly what made LOST go from a great show to an awesome show for me too.
Hey, can you start a separate post of all Charlie's near death experiences in "Things to watch for" so we can all check it out? Then Brian can add it to the list at post 1 and you can update it from there.
Cluck- I was completely sold on the idea that Locke was involved in some D.O.D. capacity until the second Randy started being a jerk.
Too funny.
Zia
ozchick
06-22-07, 01:53 AM
This is explained in the S1 DVD episode producer commentary. Are people buying the explanation? It sounds reasonable, but I'm not familiar with the equipment.
If I remember correctly, the speculation revolved around the machine stimulating Locke's legs muscles. To keep his legs from atrophying. Not sure if there was ever confirmation.
Thanks for the explanation. I'll have to watch the commentary.
Darkrogue
06-22-07, 11:16 AM
Darkrogue-I'm with you, that scene in the end is exactly what made LOST go from a great show to an awesome show for me too.
Hey, can you start a separate post of all Charlie's near death experiences in "Things to watch for" so we can all check it out? Then Brian can add it to the list at post 1 and you can update it from there.
Zia
:Cheers:
Heya, ZIA! And certainly. I’ll just copy the post I had there and snip it accordingly.
Ida Monster
06-22-07, 01:30 PM
Regarding the machine next to Locke's bedside: Here's a a couple of threads I found about it:
What was that machine by Locke's bed? (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=405&highlight=machine+NEAR+atrophy)
Locke's Bedroom (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5629&highlight=machine+NEAR+atrophy)
I'll have to listen to the commentary as well. But for now I speculate that considering the height from which Locke fell, he may have also suffered damage to one or more of his internal organs. Perhaps his remaining kidney? I don't think it was a dialysis machine. Other than that, I'd have to vote for muscle stimulator.
ETA: Transcript of the commentary of the scene:
"A lot of people didn't understand what the machine was."
"mmm hmm"
"Well it's just there, right?"
"It's perfect"
"But we want them to (not understand.)"
"It's perfect."
"It's actually stimulating his muscles which helps to explain why he's able to stand..it helps explain, doesn't totally, the island has a lot to do with it."
jadingirl
06-22-07, 02:15 PM
2 things I thought of:
1. With regards to Kate being vegetarian - what was she eating at the rancher's house when he made her breakfast - I thought she had ham and eggs or something like that but I don't remember off hand.
2. Jack says you can't bury the bodies in the fuselage because nothing will stay buried so why did they start a cemetary later on - was that just because they were now burying their friends?
Dharma For One
06-22-07, 05:37 PM
She ate her eggs like she was starving. So, maybe she just fell off the wagon. But, there are some vegetarians who consider eating eggs and milk okay. I can buy that Evangeline is a vegetarian in real life (with that bod!)
I see keeping a few graves intact as being a lot easier than keeping a mass grave away from the wild boars. With a few graves, you can just put a few big rocks over them; with a mass grave it would be very difficult.
Hodgepodge
06-23-07, 12:24 AM
...One thing I noticed in this epi is when Locke is in the lunchroom and tells GL12 "Patience is the hallmark of a good leader" and then a couple of scenes later Jack is sitting with Rose on the beach and she remarks that he has a good soul, that he's patient and caring...You know I didn't catch that Bella. :) And remember, it was Locke who convince Jack to take the role as leader. Apparently he saw the same qualities.
...2. Jack says you can't bury the bodies in the fuselage because nothing will stay buried so why did they start a cemetary later on - was that just because they were now burying their friends?Has this dialog been added to the same line thread? Remember Locke tells Paulo the same thing in Expose.
11Rooster11
06-25-07, 02:26 PM
One of the things that really jumped out to me was the fact that we are missing a huge part of the Locke backstory.
I know that we know nothing of the young John Locke but that isn't what I'm talking about. Every Locke flashback has shown John as an able bodied man (except walkabout). Yet he says that he's lived with the handicap for 4 years. So from the moment Cooper tossed him out the window to the week before being marooned on the island, we know virtually nothing of what he did with his life.
Wheelchair reveal is what hooked me on the show.
I was a little late this week, as a matter of fact I havent even watched White Rabbit yet but I will get to that today. This really reminded me how much I loved Locke in the beginning. I started loosing intrest in his character once he became obsessed with the hatch, I still like him but im not as into him. It seems I remember something about that machine having to do with something medical too.
Hodgepodge
06-25-07, 05:15 PM
Knowing what we know about "Smokie", what did Locke see that was so beautiful? Remember in White Rabbit, he tells Jack he looked into the eye of the island and what he saw was beautiful. This was right after his encounter with "Smokie" in this episode.
We know it scans the memories of its victims. 11Rooster11, got me thinking about this with his last post. We know Locke's last four years have been pretty painful. We know he was brought up in Foster care. Moved from one family to another. His mother deserted him twice, and his father stole his kidney. Right before he pushed him out of an eight-story building. So I ask again, what in the world could he have seen that was so beautiful? :confused:
Hmmm...good question. Locke's memories are painful but not really b/c of his direct actions - he was mostly trying to do the right thing (give his Dad a kidney, save someone from getting swindled) and he gets screwed every time. It seems like Smokey sometimes takes the form of a bad memory (Eko's brother and Eko's guilt) and sometimes a good "memory" (Ben's mother). I put memory in quotes b/c that didn't happen, Ben's mom died at childbirth, he can't possibly remember her. So maybe Locke saw something pleasant that didn't really happen or maybe could have happened but didn't? And maybe it will if things go right next time? I think I'm rambling now...
ozchick
06-25-07, 08:44 PM
Knowing what we know about "Smokie", what did Locke see that was so beautiful? Remember in White Rabbit, he tells Jack he looked into the eye of the island and what he saw was beautiful. This was right after his encounter with "Smokie" in this episode.
We know it scans the memories of its victims. 11Rooster11, got me thinking about this with his last post. We know Locke's last four years have been pretty painful. We know he was brought up in Foster care. Moved from one family to another. His mother deserted him twice, and his father stole his kidney. Right before he pushed him out of an eight-story building. So I ask again, what in the world could he have seen that was so beautiful? :confused:
I actually watched this again with the commentary, which I had not yet seen and they discussed this. I'm not sure if commentary discussion is considered a spoiler or not, so just in case.
The people doing the commentary were Terry O'Quinn, David Fury who wrote the episode (thanks Brian for that name in the first post), and the guy who directed (whose name is not in the first post and I don't remember it :p). They talked about shooting the scene from the "monster's" point of view, so the viewers wouldn't see it, and how Terry was basically looking at nothing. He asked the writer what he was supposed to be looking at, so he would know how to play the scene, and was basically told go ask Damon. So he went to Lindelof who said he couldn't (wouldn't?) tell him, but only said that what Locke was seeing was the most beautiful thing he'd ever seen. Terry didn't mention exactly what he was imagining, but did use that as his subtext.
Hodgepodge
06-25-07, 11:09 PM
...Ben's mom died at childbirth, he can't possibly remember her. So maybe Locke saw something pleasant that didn't really happen or maybe could have happened but didn't? And maybe it will if things go right next time? I think I'm rambling now...You know Catnap, you're absolutely right. There's no way Ben would have stored a memory of his adult mother. Now you've forced me to find screebcaps and compare both women. If the women are the same, that would mean "Smokie" got the information for another source. Probably Ben's dad, Roger Workman!
Getting back to what Locke saw. So, to your thinking, we're possibly missing a "good" flashback in another Locke-centric episode. I'd like to see that. I'm tired of seeing this guy abused at every turn.
ETA: Just found screencaps and it's the same woman. But I also found a cap of young Ben looking at a picture of his mother and father. That's probably where the memory came from.
I actually watched this again with the commentary, which I had not yet seen and they discussed this. I'm not sure if commentary discussion is considered a spoiler or not, so just in case.
The people doing the commentary were Terry O'Quinn, David Fury who wrote the episode (thanks Brian for that name in the first post), and the guy who directed (whose name is not in the first post and I don't remember it :p). They talked about shooting the scene from the "monster's" point of view, so the viewers wouldn't see it, and how Terry was basically looking at nothing. He asked the writer what he was supposed to be looking at, so he would know how to play the scene, and was basically told go ask Damon. So he went to Lindelof who said he couldn't (wouldn't?) tell him, but only said that what Locke was seeing was the most beautiful thing he'd ever seen. Terry didn't mention exactly what he was imagining, but did use that as his subtext. Yeah, I've got the S1 DVD as well Ozchick. And, I can understand that from an acting standpoint, but it doesn't jive with what we've been shown of this guys life. Locke should've run screaming after seeing a synopsis of his life. Remember again, he was frighten when he saw it again in Exodus and started running. I'm wondering what changed between those two contacts?
With all the above in mind, I wonder if Locke is just completely overwhelmed that he can actually walk again and maybe that's what's so beautiful when he looked into the eye of the Island.
I mean Locke had nothing to look forward to before he came to the Island, could his life have sucked more than it did pre-Island?
It's weird that he would choose these exact words, (don't you think?) because of all the eye references. Maybe the opening scenes we see are associated to these words. The eyes we see are being looked into by the Island or vice-versa.??
Now I'm rambling...
Zia
That's what I was thinking, Zia, his life was awful and now suddenly he can walk, hunt, provide for people and help out. He definately is getting his "Walkabout" adventure and then some. And he does become a leader of sorts. So maybe that is what he is seeing??
i always thought locke's "beauty" that he saw was either him with a "family" or with helen.
and i never realized till now that we are infact missing a big chunk of lockes story, from the time his father threw him out the window to we see him working for randy plating risk with the guy he works with. that event seems only a short time before he goes to the walk about... and theres a big gap between.
I always thought the beauty Locke saw was glimpses of himself living (and walking) on the island forever - as in his destiny.
Bob Sacamano
06-26-07, 02:50 PM
I put memory in quotes b/c that didn't happen, Ben's mom died at childbirth, he can't possibly remember her. So maybe Locke saw something pleasant that didn't really happen or maybe could have happened but didn't?All Ben had to remember his mother was this photograph.
http://gallery.lost-media.com/albums/ep-caps/season3/3x20-curtain/1/normal_curtain-cap237.jpg (http://javascript<b></b>:;)
When Emily appeared in his window and then in the jungle she was wearing the same dress and headband:
http://gallery.lost-media.com/albums/ep-caps/season3/3x20-curtain/1/normal_curtain-cap316.jpg (http://javascript<b></b>:;)
This is the only memory that could be scanned because it was the only memory that young Ben had of his mother.
What connects all of the Visions - Christian, Yemi, and Emily - is that each one represents a guilty memory. Specifically, a guilty memory about feeling responsible for someone's death. Jack, Eko and Ben all shared those same guilty feelings.
Nice screencaps - makes sense!
It does make sense. Good catch. Thanks.
Bob Sacamano
06-26-07, 03:29 PM
Thanks!
I'm really enjoying the discussion here.
So, thank you.
Hodgepodge
06-26-07, 04:25 PM
With all the above in mind, I wonder if Locke is just completely overwhelmed that he can actually walk again and maybe that's what's so beautiful when he looked into the eye of the Island.
I mean Locke had nothing to look forward to before he came to the Island, could his life have sucked more than it did pre-Island?...
That's what I was thinking, Zia, his life was awful and now suddenly he can walk, hunt, provide for people and help out. He definately is getting his "Walkabout" adventure and then some. And he does become a leader of sorts. So maybe that is what he is seeing??I think you guys have hit the nail on the head. I was looking at it from a visual standpoint, and it's apparent Locke's looking at it spiritually. Thanks guys! And, you're never rambling ZIA! ;)
...What connects all of the Visions - Christian, Yemi, and Emily - is that each one represents a guilty memory. Specifically, a guilty memory about feeling responsible for someone's death. Jack, Eko and Ben all shared those same guilty feelings.I always enjoy a thread that much more when Bob Sacamano makes an appearance. Great catch BS! BS, is there a thread discussing these guilty memories? The deaths that are attributed to these people?
Bob Sacamano
06-26-07, 04:56 PM
Hodge you are too kind and one of my favorites.
If you click the underlined link in my sig it takes you to my thread in T&S. The first post contains the theory premise as well as an analysis of all the Dreams, Visions, Trips, and Projections. In the thread, we talked a lot about how the 815s guilt is being used to manipulate them via the Visions and how those differ from their Dreams.
It would be great to here from some of you over there.
Hodgepodge
06-26-07, 05:28 PM
Something else I want to bring up, and this is as good a place as any.
We learned from S.O.S. Rose saw Locke in that wheelchair. Now, throughout these first few episodes Locke's running around helping people, hunting boar and alike. I'm curious why she'd keep something like that to her self? Locke's even aware she knows he was in a wheelchair. Yet he never goes to her to ask that she keep his secret.
Another thing! In this episode Jack tries to console Rose about Bernard. She tells him, "Doctor, my husband is not dead." I guess I'm trying to figure out when she became aware of the Island's power. Was this last statement, a statement of faith or fact?
And, I'm going to head your way Bob Sacamano. I'm looking forward to reading that thread. :)
ozchick
06-26-07, 05:40 PM
Something else I want to bring up, and this is as good a place as any.
We learned from S.O.S. Rose saw Locke in that wheelchair. Now, throughout these first few episodes Locke's running around helping people, hunting boar and alike. I'm curious why she'd keep something like that to her self? Locke's even aware she knows he was in a wheelchair. Yet he never goes to her to ask that she keep his secret.
Things like this make me wish I didn't know so much about the production and business side of making a tv show. I have a feeling we might need to chalk this up to TPTB and the production schedule. I think they didn't even have the idea to do SOS until they saw how popular Rose and Bernard were. Walkabout originally aired in October 2004 and was probably shot sometime that summer. SOS aired the night before Thanksgiving 2005 (which I remember specifically because my family discussed it over turkey the next day) and was probably shot in September, a full year after Walkabout. While I believe TPTB have some of the big picture stuff planned in advance, I doubt the Rose and Bernard story has been there since the beginning, especially since the actors are not part of the regular cast. In the commentary for this ep, they discussed how they wanted to use L. Scott Caldwell more, but she was doing a play somewhere and wasn't available. She probably has a limited contract with Lost which allows her to do other work.
Hodgepodge
06-26-07, 06:46 PM
Things like this make me wish I didn't know so much about the production and business side of making a tv show. I have a feeling we might need to chalk this up to TPTB and the production schedule. I think they didn't even have the idea to do SOS until they saw how popular Rose and Bernard were. Walkabout originally aired in October 2004 and was probably shot sometime that summer. SOS aired the night before Thanksgiving 2005 (which I remember specifically because my family discussed it over turkey the next day) and was probably shot in September, a full year after Walkabout. While I believe TPTB have some of the big picture stuff planned in advance, I doubt the Rose and Bernard story has been there since the beginning, especially since the actors are not part of the regular cast. In the commentary for this ep, they discussed how they wanted to use L. Scott Caldwell more, but she was doing a play somewhere and wasn't available. She probably has a limited contract with Lost which allows her to do other work.Good point Ozchick! I didn't take that into consideration, but it makes perfect sense.
L. Scott Caldwell was doing a play on Broadway during that first season of Lost. And you're right, they wanted to use her more, but she wasn't available.
Chalk another one up to, when you're in trouble, punt. :nanabobo:
What connects all of the Visions - Christian, Yemi, and Emily - is that each one represents a guilty memory. Specifically, a guilty memory about feeling responsible for someone's death. Jack, Eko and Ben all shared those same guilty feelings.
Beautiful! We get you for the rewatch? Excellent!:D
And, you're never rambling ZIA! ;)
I'm going to save this forever! LOL! :D
Bob Sacamano, I'm so glad you turned me on to your thread in theories. I know I've checked in there before, but never really understood what was being said since I never looked at pg 1 (ooops!) Well, I love that you've separated the HAVIDS. Awesome theory, and I see things so much differently now.
Gotta get back to my reading, only 50+ pages more to go!
MrSocko
06-27-07, 02:16 PM
Rate it here! (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37999)
Bob Sacamano
06-27-07, 05:31 PM
Thanks ZIA and bella.
I will definitley be chiming in - great discussion going on in here!
island_maverick
06-27-07, 05:42 PM
Bob Sacamano... Awesome theory, and I see things so much differently now. Well, it was given a best theory award for 2006. It's a superb read.
Darkrogue
06-28-07, 09:18 AM
Nice, Bob Sacamano, and that’s a very insightful observation!
I’ve actually browsed that thread in Theories, but I’ve never contributed. I’ve never contributed much of anything in Theories, for some reason. I think I’m too lazy. :D There are some brilliant discussions going on there (and a few just really strange things). ;)
As for Locke’s two different experiences with Smokie—that tends to be a pattern. The first time it appears to people (with the exception of the pilot and havid Boone and Shannon--have I missed any others?), it has been harmless. The second time it approaches, it arrives with vengeance. It is almost like it scans on the first visit, then returns as a judge of sorts.
Things like this make me wish I didn't know so much about the production and business side of making a tv show. I have a feeling we might need to chalk this up to TPTB and the production schedule. I think they didn't even have the idea to do SOS until they saw how popular Rose and Bernard were. Walkabout originally aired in October 2004 and was probably shot sometime that summer. SOS aired the night before Thanksgiving 2005 (which I remember specifically because my family discussed it over turkey the next day) and was probably shot in September, a full year after Walkabout. While I believe TPTB have some of the big picture stuff planned in advance, I doubt the Rose and Bernard story has been there since the beginning, especially since the actors are not part of the regular cast. In the commentary for this ep, they discussed how they wanted to use L. Scott Caldwell more, but she was doing a play somewhere and wasn't available. She probably has a limited contract with Lost which allows her to do other work.
I’ll bet you are right. I think they had an “outline”, so to speak, but one that was not fleshed-out. I have always suspected that. The “vision” has evolved, which is why I think a lot of these pieces we are putting together are really a result of coincidence, in many cases. :)
Hodgepodge
06-28-07, 04:10 PM
...As for Locke’s two different experiences with Smokie—that tends to be a pattern. The first time it appears to people (with the exception of the pilot and havid Boone and Shannon--have I missed any others?), it has been harmless. The second time it approaches, it arrives with vengeance. It is almost like it scans on the first visit, then returns as a judge of sorts...Darkrogue, I've always assumed "Smokie" has scanned all of our survivors at some point. Probably without them knowing. Coming at night while they sleep. Or, in the case of Jack, while he was unconscious in the jungle at the beginning of the Pilot episode.
But your point is valid. From what we've seen, Locke's first encounter led to the Exodus fiasco. Mr. Eko's initial scan in The 23rd Psalm, led to his death in The Cost of Living.
Bob Sacamano
06-28-07, 05:02 PM
As for Locke’s two different experiences with Smokie—that tends to be a pattern. The first time it appears to people (with the exception of the pilot and havid Boone and Shannon--have I missed any others?), it has been harmless. The second time it approaches, it arrives with vengeance. It is almost like it scans on the first visit, then returns as a judge of sorts.Darkrogue, bella, ZIZ, ozchick, et. al. should not hesitate to post in T&S. The insights you are discussing - like this one - would inspire great ideas over there.
I'm a believer that Locke did not see the black smoke during Walkabout. He's said as much a few times now. Whether he was first approached by another entity - or a different side of the same entity - is the question. The way Smokey recoiled - as if in fear - when Locke approached Eko at the water in TCoL may be meaningful, but Smokey has always tried to get the 815s away from the group to Die Alone.
Slight threadjack here - Why do you all think Smokey's scans of Juliet yielded no results after the rich images mined from Eko? I loved S3, but this is really bothering me.
juanbong
06-28-07, 05:37 PM
Slight threadjack here - Why do you all think Smokey's scans of Juliet yielded no results after the rich images mined from Eko? I loved S3, but this is really bothering me.
This has actually bothered me as well. Did it "know" Juliet and feed her information? Did Juliet wipe her mind clean of thoughts while being "photographed"?
Both points of view are interesting, and have merit, but to me when Smokey scanned Juliet, it was just a different meeting altogether.
Hodgepodge
06-28-07, 10:14 PM
...Slight threadjack here - Why do you all think Smokey's scans of Juliet yielded no results after the rich images mined from Eko? I loved S3, but this is really bothering me.
This has actually bothered me as well. Did it "know" Juliet and feed her information? Did Juliet wipe her mind clean of thoughts while being "photographed"?
Both points of view are interesting, and have merit, but to me when Smokey scanned Juliet, it was just a different meeting altogether.You guys forget the two meetings, "Smokie"/Eko and "Smokie"/Juliet were different. It got right up in Mr. Eko's face and scanned, whereas Juliet was protected by the root/tree enclosure she and Kate hid within. It had to scan her from a distance.
I felt her scanning was strange in and of it's self. She'd been there over 3 years, but had never encounted "Smokie". I believed it when she told Kate she'd never seen it before. This tells me, she may've never wondered outside the protection of "Othersville" for those 3 years. Or, of course she could be lying! :rolleyez:
juanbong
06-29-07, 05:00 PM
You guys forget the two meetings, "Smokie"/Eko and "Smokie"/Juliet were different. It got right up in Mr. Eko's face and scanned, whereas Juliet was protected by the root/tree enclosure she and Kate hid within. It had to scan her from a distance.
I felt her scanning was strange in and of it's self. She'd been there over 3 years, but had never encounted "Smokie". I believed it when she told Kate she'd never seen it before. This tells me, she may've never wondered outside the protection of "Othersville" for those 3 years. Or, of course she could be lying! :rolleyez:
Yeah they were different! Not only what you presented above, Hodge, but Eko's meeting wasn't affected by weather elements, i.e. rain, while Juliet's meeting with Smokie had rain affecting the scans.
Could that have been an affecting possibility as to any of this? :scratchch
This has actually bothered me as well. Did it "know" Juliet and feed her information? Did Juliet wipe her mind clean of thoughts while being "photographed"?
Both points of view are interesting, and have merit, but to me when Smokey scanned Juliet, it was just a different meeting altogether.
I was wondering the same thing. What if Smokey has an aversion to Jacob and Jacob's followers?
Maybe he can't read them for some reason?
Mr. Eko's initial scan in The 23rd Psalm, led to his death in The Cost of Living.
Aww, Eko! I'm still not over it..but I'm trying.:D
Hodgepodge
06-30-07, 11:00 PM
Yeah they were different! Not only what you presented above, Hodge, but Eko's meeting wasn't affected by weather elements, i.e. rain, while Juliet's meeting with Smokie had rain affecting the scans.
Could that have been an affecting possibility as to any of this? :scratchchRain has really foreshadowed doom on the island hasn't it. It always reminds me of The Truman Show. Where someone is controlling everthing around our Losties. Moving them around like pieces on a chess board. Oh Brian! ;)
I was wondering the same thing. What if Smokey has an aversion to Jacob and Jacob's followers?
Maybe he can't read them for some reason?Not neccessarily his followers, but the original Hostiles. I'm willing to bet "Smokie" can't scan Richard.
Aww, Eko! I'm still not over it..but I'm trying.:DOkay, I said I wasn't going to cry! :cry:
Freckles+The Best Cowboy
07-04-07, 05:48 AM
Kate says she is a vegetarian? Have we seen anything to the contrary? "Taco night" comes to mind - I guess they could have been veggie tacos
Even when she initially said she was a vegetarian, I didn't believe her. yeah, on her plate at the farm she had eggs and it looked like bacon or sausage, but she might not have eaten that if she WAS a veg... but something about it didn't sit right. I'll have to keep an eye out for her eating meat but Taco Night seems to be a glaring contradiction, for one. I think she was LYING.... as people are wont to do on this island.
Already we see some tension between Sayid and Jack. Strangely enough, I actually sided with Jack over the body-burning debate.
Has anyone ever translated what Sun says to Walt after Michael pushes him off on her (a funny scene, btw). It seemed an awful lot like something along the lines of “your father’s kind of a tool, isn’t he?” :D It made me laugh how Michael used cave-man talk and hand gestures when he spoke to her.
Sawyer “being nice” in spite of himself when he hands Claire the wallets. A little of his good side showing, even though it’s clear he wants to maintain the bad-guy front. Nice scene, that.
As considerate as Sayid's standpoint is, Jack did win me over on that one. Logically they needed to do what was best for the group, and the religion of the departed is a lot less important than the comfort and safety of those who survived, if you can forgive me for saying. In a perfect world, those who didn't survive the crash could have been honored in the way their beliefs would have preferred. In a world where people crash land on islands plague by smoke monsters, dangerous wild animals, and meddlesome Others, things must be done as necessary to promote strength and safety of the surviving clan.
I was going to ask for a translation, but you beat me to it. :p
I had totally forgotten about that scene! It seems he wasn't so bad after all, even in the beginning. I didn't really like Sawyer at first... in fact [shh, don't tell!] I didnt even really think he was that attractive. Oh, he was alright, dn't get me wrong, but it didn't make me swoon or anything. So I guess I overlooked little things like these because I was never LOOKING for inherent goodness in him. Of course, over time, he's grown on me, and yes, I've gotten used to his kind of gruff sexiness, but he's not the sexiest man alive or what have you. I do, however, love the Sawyer character, and JH plays him beautifully. I reckon I started like him after the first Sawyer FB, LOL, so my initial disdain of him didn't last long. But yeah... I just thought I'd share. :p
I notice Kate and Sayid working together here, and they tend to do so quite a bit throughout the beginning of the series. They both seem to connect very well—a relationship that has fallen by the wayside. I love Kate taking initiative and doing things of her own volition. Again, I miss this Kate.
:yeah:
Very true. She does the exact same thing here that she did with regard to Naomi: she goes against Sayid’s suggestion and tells Jack. I wonder if it has something to do with the fact that Jack was the first person she ‘connected with’ or really spoke to after the crash?
I had to point this out to a FEW people.... people who were griping about how she became a 'tattletale' all of a sudden. She didn't, really. She's ALWAYS told Jack everything. In fact, she's been pretty candid with everyone about the status quo unless she was specifically asked NOT to. That's not, of course, taking into account her cardinal "Tell Jack" rule. When she learned Sun could talk, she did well keeping that quiet. Same with the pregnancy, though she did urge Sun to tell Jack and Jin. Also, shes never said anything about Sawyer's letter to anyone... and I think that was a more unspoken understanding between the two of them, so we know she doesn't tell Jack EVERYTHING, nor is she a blabbermouth when explicitly asked to keep a NON life threatening bit of information secret. But yes, she was ALWAYS inclined to keep Jack in the Loop.
Darkrogue, I've always assumed "Smokie" has scanned all of our survivors at some point. Probably without them knowing. Coming at night while they sleep. Or, in the case of Jack, while he was unconscious in the jungle at the beginning of the Pilot episode.
But your point is valid. From what we've seen, Locke's first encounter led to the Exodus fiasco. Mr. Eko's initial scan in The 23rd Psalm, led to his death in The Cost of Living.
Interesting theory.... are you saying they've ALL already been scanned? It just seems that if scanning happens, we know about it.... and you're spot on with the judgment thing. First it scans, then it comes back to exact punishment. Can we not say it has done the SAME with Juliet? It scanned her, then came back the next day to do TPTB-only-knows-what, but then it was repelled by the fence.... so every time there is a shown scanning/encounter there is also a final confrontation of sorts, yes? But none of the rest of our losties have had this kind of relationship with smokie... so I'm not sure i buy them all already having been scanned. It would bring to mind the question of whether smokie & corporeal representations of memories [CRM for further discussion here] are really the same thing or if they laterally related but NOT the same thing. could we deduct that these CRMs are something more of the magic box variety, and that smokie is a separate entity altogether? Or do we have confirmation that they are the same thing? We know that HAVIDS are different from CRMs....as HAVIDS seem very really but turn out not to be real to anyone ELSE... where as Kate's horse was seen by Sawyer. But then.... I think that's the ONLY exception, isn't it? No one else saw Jack's dad, Eko's brother, or Hurley's Dave.... so I s'pose those could all be classified HAVID... That makes what..... Kate's horse and Cooper the only CRMs so far. any others I'm forgetting? I'm talking about TWO people seeing something from one's past.
Bob S, that was one super enlightened post! when I get the chance, I'll stop by your theories thread. I don't usually go in there, I guess I've just never really seen one that got me hooked, but yours is quite interesting.
Other notes:
In the scene where Locke is at his desk working on his calculator, the printing mechanism on the calculator makes noises that are EXACTLY like noises made by smokie.
Kate had a waling stick while they were looking for the boar. This reminded me of the time Jack had one in 'Pilot'.... but didnt he also have it on another hike too? I can't really remember which ep.... is this a recurring prop? I seem to be thinking someone ELSE has had it as well... maybe Locke or Sawyer at one point? I know Ben had one, as did Micheal after his car accident, but it was more of a CRUTCH for them, so what does THAT mean? AHHHHH! the possibilities! :p
Dude count: 3. Dude total: 12.
So maybe Locke saw something pleasant that didn't really happen or maybe could have happened but didn't? And maybe it will if things go right next time? I think I'm rambling now...
Just had a crazy thought....what if in some twisted way what Locke saw was a flashforward of the island "so to speak" bringing about the death of his father.
We learned from S.O.S. Rose saw Locke in that wheelchair. Now, throughout these first few episodes Locke's running around helping people, hunting boar and alike. I'm curious why she'd keep something like that to her self?
perhaps she was hesitant to say something because something similar was happening to her, and she was trying to understand it. (the curing of her cancer, that is)
As for Locke’s two different experiences with Smokie—that tends to be a pattern. The first time it appears to people (with the exception of the pilot and havid Boone and Shannon--have I missed any others?), it has been harmless. The second time it approaches, it arrives with vengeance. It is almost like it scans on the first visit, then returns as a judge of sorts.
Like an episode of Law and Order. :D
Hodgepodge
07-10-07, 11:56 PM
...Has anyone ever translated what Sun says to Walt after Michael pushes him off on her (a funny scene, btw). It seemed an awful lot like something along the lines of “your father’s kind of a tool, isn’t he?” :D It made me laugh how Michael used cave-man talk and hand gestures when he spoke to her...There was a site, Lostlinks, which kept a running translation of everything Jin and Sun said in Korean. I think it's dead now, but I'll look into it.
Interesting theory.... are you saying they've ALL already been scanned? It just seems that if scanning happens, we know about it.... and you're spot on with the judgment thing. First it scans, then it comes back to exact punishment. Can we not say it has done the SAME with Juliet? It scanned her, then came back the next day to do TPTB-only-knows-what, but then it was repelled by the fence.... so every time there is a shown scanning/encounter there is also a final confrontation of sorts, yes? But none of the rest of our losties have had this kind of relationship with smokie... so I'm not sure i buy them all already having been scanned...Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. There's a lot of things we've come to realize happen off camera. I've got to read of all Bob Sacamano's thread in Lost Theories.
perhaps she was hesitant to say something because something similar was happening to her, and she was trying to understand it. (the curing of her cancer, that is)I understand what you're saying, and you maybe exactly right. Also, maybe the remission hadn't started for her and she was hoping it would. :pray:
clayseason1
08-16-07, 02:00 AM
Something I noticed that I thought I would mention here. Locke hires a private detective to find his mother and father. The PI sits across from him with two folders - one yellow and one red. The red one contains information on Locke's dad -- the real Sawyer.
In season 3 (I think it's The Brig) -- Richard hands Locke a red folder with information on our Sawyer -- James Ford.
I don't know that there's any significance though.
Hodgepodge
08-16-07, 04:22 PM
Something I noticed that I thought I would mention here. Locke hires a private detective to find his mother and father. The PI sits across from him with two folders - one yellow and one red. The red one contains information on Locke's dad -- the real Sawyer.
In season 3 (I think it's The Brig) -- Richard hands Locke a red folder with information on our Sawyer -- James Ford.
I don't know that there's any significance though.Will you provide us with both screencaps? I'd like to see if there the same type folders.
Something I noticed that I thought I would mention here. Locke hires a private detective to find his mother and father. The PI sits across from him with two folders - one yellow and one red. The red one contains information on Locke's dad -- the real Sawyer.
In season 3 (I think it's The Brig) -- Richard hands Locke a red folder with information on our Sawyer -- James Ford.
I don't know that there's any significance though.
I didn't notice that Clay. I would think it's significant.
clayseason1
08-18-07, 01:46 PM
lol - I posted that info about the red folders in the wrong thread. It should have been posted in Deus Ex Machina. I'll look for caps tonight and post in the appropriate thread. (Deus Ex Machina is the episode Locke meets with the private detective.)
Lol Clayseason1.
I'm here so much, I didn't even notice what episode it was either. :D
Bad Zia!
Hodgepodge
08-20-07, 07:26 PM
lol - I posted that info about the red folders in the wrong thread. It should have been posted in Deus Ex Machina. I'll look for caps tonight and post in the appropriate thread. (Deus Ex Machina is the episode Locke meets with the private detective.)
Lol Clayseason1.
I'm here so much, I didn't even notice what episode it was either. :D
Bad Zia!You guys know I have a bad habit of highjacking threads. When you're going through senility, you have to post when it comes to mind. :nanabobo:
jane_eire
11-06-07, 01:30 PM
wheelchair man
LOST Hiatus Rewatch: Week 2, Weds., June 3rd-10th
S1E4: Walkabout
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u34/zia29112/LOST%20Stuff/300px-Lost-season1.jpg
Dallard
06-03-09, 08:28 AM
OK.... I know that it is like really early and all... 4am on the east coast but I am up and I just watched Walkabout again and well...
Knowing what we all know now about Locke and FL, could it be possible that when he came in contact with Smoky, who most believe to be FL, that Smoky was feeling Locke out and maybe did something to Locke to make him make all the choices that he has made on the island. Ya know, all the things that just didn't make sense why he was doing it. One of the things that is going through my head at this really early hour is, did Smoky take over Locke. Was it at this point that he Locke became FL in a way. I know that is a far stretch and well pretty far, but you never know. Maybe not physically but maybe got in his mind and made him think the way he does about the island. His constant need to stay on the island and do what he had to do to protect it. His need to be with the "others" and him saying it was his destiny to do the things he has to do. OR... maybe I need to get some sleep and rewatch it again. :sleepzzz:
Maybe someone with some brian power can figure out what I have just said! :D
World Walker
06-04-09, 02:28 AM
Just wanted to say that this is probably the first LOST episode to truly blow my mind and leave me in a complete state of utter awe. Now as I hit the play button, we'll see if it lives up to my fond memories.
I vividly remember thinking how strange it was that Locke was wiggling his toes the first time I watched this. While there was pandemonium raining down about him, he seemed completely serene.
"Right behind ya, jackass." You tell him, Sawyer! :nanabobo:
You see, I don't get what the problem is. All those people running around afraid of boars. The boars've gotta eat too! Why doesn't anyone ever think of the boars? Now watch; some guy with a bunch of knives is gonna go out hunting them. They were here first, people...:rolleyez:
"Any bodies we bury aren't going to stay buried for very long." Now, here's a quote that peeked my interest. Knowing what we now know about Smokey and MiB, could we say this is an early hint that the dead are affected differently on this Island? Maybe, though I find it interesting the bodies we cannot confirm buried (since they are missing) are the most active (ie. Christian & Yemi).
"We don't have time to sort out everybody's god." This could be taken as a reference to MiB and Jacob, or better yet, whomever they serve, if indeed they serve a higher power than their own. Could the losties, unwittingly, have served either side over the course of the series? I think this is certain at this point.
Kate and Sayid made a pretty cool team in these early days. Too bad it doesn't last.
Randy is a dick.
Has anybody else noticed that Locke's counting machine during his first flashback scene makes the chittering Smokey sound? What does it mean? I've got no clue on this one. We've been haunted by Smokey noises all series, both subtle (to the point of doubting one's senses) and obvious. This was one of those very obvious occurances.
"If I didn't know any better I'd say you have a problem staying in one place for very long, Kate." Ouch! Hit the nail on the head on that one, Jack.
Michael, didn't I tell you in the last episode that the island had it in for you? Why didn't you listen? Now you've learned something new: If you can't keep your mouth shut during a hunt, expect a boar to gore your leg. Sheesh, even Locke knows that!
Randy's still a dick.
"Don't tell me what I can't do." Our first of many! See, look, not two minutes later he says it again. :Cheers:
Between Hurley's temper tantrum and Charlie's spastic nosedive, LOST does fishing very well. We need more fishing scenes!
The way I view the Locke and Smokey bumping into each other scene is similar to when Eko and Smokey meet in Season 2. Smokey scans Locke and then withdraws after a short time. Why Locke tells people what he saw was beautiful is beyond me. Eko certainly didn't think that. Maybe Locke saw only what he wanted to see. This scene has always been pretty unclear. Perhaps this will be revisited in Season 6.
Awwww, it's adorable how awkward Sawyer is at being nice. :nanabobo:
Walt's reaction to Michael's messed up leg is priceless.
As Boone said, that is pretty low, Shannon. I really feel bad for the poor hobbit.
"They're probably thinking the same thing about us." They sure set up the Tail Section storyline early on, didn't they?
Lost count on how many times Locke said, "Don't tell me what I can't do," but who cares, cause this is the moment. Even when I know what's coming my jaw's still going slack from how amazingly well-done the acting and music are during this reveal.
Also wanted to note the contrast between Locke's moment of euphoria as he regains his feet for the first time in four years while everybody else is running about in terror around him. Another indication that Locke is indeed different; set apart from the rest.
Still an amazing episode after all these years. :)
It really was a surprise in the end to realize that he was in a wheelchair.
Great story telling!
So now Locke has found out the specialness of the island. It has given him back his legs. No wonder whatever it was that he saw was beautiful. Or was it something evil under the guise of something beautiful, and Locke wanted it so much that he was prepared to be fooled.
With regard to the bodies, I think they thought that if they were buried the boars would dig them up pretty quick smart. There were a lot of them and there maybe wasn't enough time to bury them properly before they started to decompose. Plus they had no shovels. Therefore to cremate them would have been more humane and respectful, although not to some religious convictions.
In his back story Locke was seen playing "Risk" at work in his lunch hour. He was seen playing the same game in "The Shape of Things to Come" (S4) along with Sawyer and Hurley in the Barracks.
From his back stories we find out that Locke has had a miserable life and now is his chance to make his dreams come true - to be a person of importance. All he wants to do now is go charging off into the jungle and shoot things and be a man of action.
Sawyer to Jack: And you gave him back his knives ? after he nearly pins Sawyer to his airline seat !
Ida Monster
06-05-09, 12:04 PM
Just thinking out loud.. I noticed something odd about Locke's pants.
In the scene where he is lying on the beach, waking up and moving his foot for the first time i noticed that the bottom of his pant legs are all dirty as if he had been walking through dirt or soot. ( Had he just come back from Jacob's cabin?) Or perhaps an electrical discharge had blown him right out of his shoes leaving a blackened charring.
Jack shows little caring for the dead. Sayid is more spiritual than I remembered. Locke is really dense at times and childlike at other times. Plays a game like a child. General. lol
How did Jack eventually usurp Sayid as the leader? It seems obvious that Sayid is a natural leader. He has all the skills, know-how, and people insight to pull it off perfectly, whereas Jack freaked out and ran around the Island chasing ghost Christian until it led him to a waterfall. A Doctor vs. a Republican Guard doesn't seem too close of a race to me.
Zia - I could never figure out why Jack was permitted to take the leadership role. As soon as he started chasing Christian around the island I thought "uh oh ! This guy is a flake !" Sayid was way more logical and well organized. Jack was not interested in dead people or alive people. Poor Claire - what a horrendous situation to be in, and Jack just treated her like she was a bit of a nuisance - "oh women have babies all the time, go and organize a remembrance service." Not to forget "The Crying Game" ! (That was such a great movie !) I have never been bothered by men crying, but there is a limit.
Mind you, there wasn't a lot of competition for leader. Locke was traipsing around in the jungle in a state of euphoria with his arsenal. Sawyer couldn't give a stuff. Kate was willing but a bit out of her depth. And so on. Like I keep saying they need a democracy not a dictatorship. But sadly everyone was way too lethargic to actually chose someone and Jack ended up as "it".
World Walker
06-06-09, 12:29 PM
How did Jack eventually usurp Sayid as the leader? It seems obvious that Sayid is a natural leader. He has all the skills, know-how, and people insight to pull it off perfectly, whereas Jack freaked out and ran around the Island chasing ghost Christian until it led him to a waterfall. A Doctor vs. a Republican Guard doesn't seem too close of a race to me.
Good observation, ZIA. Sayid would have made a wonderful leader, especially back in the early days. Would he have done a better job than Jack? Sure. The biggest reason I believe this didn't happen is that it wasn't something Sayid wanted for himself. Plus, the survivors already looked up to Jack as their leader from day one.
I know, but honestly, Jack was mentally unstable, and like Christian told him, his bedside manner sucked. I know the entire series centricity is based on Jack becoming a great leader that finds redemption for himself and others, but I just think it was obvious that Sayid was a much more solid, qualified leader.
Sayid was definitely a better qualified leader, but he didn't want to be a leader, he didn't think he was suitable to be a leader. He had nothing but shame for what he had done in the past, in his torturing days, and then lo and behold, there he is torturing again, but not of his own volition.
If only Jack had used his common sense and realized that Sayid would have been the ideal deputy - but Jack wanted to do it all on his own. Whatever Sayid, or anyone else had advised him to do he would have done the opposite, regardless. Jack is a control freak, and like a lot of the Medical Profession, particularly Surgeons, needs to be in total control. A Surgeon literally holds the life of his patient in his hands at times so its not so hard to see how megalomaniacal they can get.
Jack was evidently never taught to "share" when he was a child !
AChristianShephard
06-18-09, 12:36 AM
This is the only episode that in the 5yrs of Lost I actually missed part of.
I got 30mins in then some drama happened, I cant remember what it was now.
And I missed one of the most stunning reveals ever made. My friend told me about Locke being in a wheelchair a couple of days later and had to wait for the dvd's before getting to see it.
But even with just those 30mins, I had seen enough to realise that LOST was one of the most amazing things I had ever clapped my eyes on and I was completely hooked. Line and sinker.
This episode is one of the best, and most skilfully told in the shows history.
The setups are beautiful.
Locke seeing the 'entity' and lying about it.
Rose knowing about Bernard.
Claire getting involved.
Sun making toothpaste.
Jack seeing ACS. WOW! How spooky was that?
Aww Shannon is so adorable, I used to hate her.
And the music, omg what happened to the music? It's about 1million times better in this 1st season.
Incidently, I put the 1st dvd in the player and left the main screen looping for 5mins whilst eating when suddenly at the end of the loop all these sounds fx of the smoke monster suddenly came in. Scared me witless, especially with the surround sound on.
Anyone else stumble across this... Easter egg?
Goddam! I'm gonna have to watch the next one now.
Locke 'n' Load
06-20-09, 11:28 PM
Still an amazing episode after all these years. :)
I certainly agree to that!
How did Jack eventually usurp Sayid as the leader? It seems obvious that Sayid is a natural leader. He has all the skills, know-how, and people insight to pull it off perfectly, whereas Jack freaked out and ran around the Island chasing ghost Christian until it led him to a waterfall. A Doctor vs. a Republican Guard doesn't seem too close of a race to me.
Zia - I could never figure out why Jack was permitted to take the leadership role. As soon as he started chasing Christian around the island I thought "uh oh ! This guy is a flake !" Sayid was way more logical and well organized.
People seem to think that because you are a doctor you are in a superior position and have natural leadership tendencies. Obviously they were wrong and Jack was the worse leader they could have picked. I wonder why they thought they needed a leader in the first place. This isn't the game of survivor. This was real life (so to speak). What about a democratic society? Sure, there are people who naturally tend to lead but it should not be just that one person, but a group of people who make the major decisions. And definitely not someone to tell you what to do in the regular day to day activities.
People seem to think that because you are a doctor you are in a superior position and have natural leadership tendencies. Obviously they were wrong and Jack was the worse leader they could have picked. I wonder why they thought they needed a leader in the first place. This isn't the game of survivor. This was real life (so to speak). What about a democratic society? Sure, there are people who naturally tend to lead but it should not be just that one person, but a group of people who make the major decisions. And definitely not someone to tell you what to do in the regular day to day activities.
I have said this so many times, Locke'n'Load - they needed a democracy, not a dictatorship. Jack was highly intelligent and a gifted surgeon, but when it came down to good old basic common sense, I think Jack was way at the back of the line. So who elected him anyway - did he do it himself ? OK no-one was doing much at the time, but all it needed was some communication and everyone could have contributed at least something. But Jack, true to form, martyred himself, took on the leadership role and although he didn't particularly want it, he was not prepared to give it up. As Locke wisely told him, "To be a good leader, Jack, you have to know where you're going."
But I suppose if they did all sit around in a circle and sing "Cumbaya" and make plans for the future it would all be quite boring ! The only good thing about Jack and his autocracy was the bonding of some of the most unlikely castaways, who proved that they could make decisions and work for the good of the camp.
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