Hiatus Rewatch 3 (06/10/09 - 06/16/09) - S1E9 : Solitary

[Brian]

This is the discussion thread for the LOST-TV Hiatus Rewatch - Season 1 Episode 9 , "Solitary"

Written by : David Fury

The original (or as close to original as exists) thread for this episode can be found here (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6145).

General questions about the LOST-TV Hiatus Rewatch can be posted in the LOST-TV Hiatus Rewatch thread (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37370).

Episode Description:

Sayid is captured by Danielle Rousseau, the French woman who made the distress call. Hurley builds a golf course to ease the survivors' tensions. Walt grows closer to Locke.

[thatbutton]

We see Ethan for the first time in Solitary, hunting with Locke. I've wondered why, even though he was suppossed to have been with the losties since the very first day this is the first we see of him.

And then there's Danielle. There's still so much of her story that doesn't add up. Is her name really Rousseau? Why would she have her name printed on a jacket? If her daughter Alex was stolen from her as an infant, how is it that Ben and co. have continued to call her Alex? Would they have even known that was her name? If she's been around the island enough to map it, how is it possible that she still has not seen any of the others? Did the cable that we now know leads to the looking glass on the one end lead to her underground shelter on the other end? If it didn't, where does it lead on the other end?
Danielle is certainly one of the most interesting characters on the show. I really hope we get a fb from her in Season 4.

[ZIA]

We see Ethan for the first time in Solitary, hunting with Locke. I've wondered why, even though he was suppossed to have been with the losties since the very first day this is the first we see of him.

And then there's Danielle. There's still so much of her story that doesn't add up. Is her name really Rousseau? Why would she have her name printed on a jacket? If her daughter Alex was stolen from her as an infant, how is it that Ben and co. have continued to call her Alex? Would they have even known that was her name? If she's been around the island enough to map it, how is it possible that she still has not seen any of the others? Did the cable that we now know leads to the looking glass on the one end lead to her underground shelter on the other end? If it didn't, where does it lead on the other end?
Danielle is certainly one of the most interesting characters on the show. I really hope we get a fb from her in Season 4.

Danielle!! I always wondered the same thing. Why do the Others call Alex Alex, if they took her when she was a week old AND Danielle has had no contact with the Others?
Also, (I know I say this all the time) but if I was on an Island for 16 years, I would've seen something by now, ran into someone; especially if my baby was kidnapped on a seemingly remote island. Danielle is a key player on the island-IMO and I'm dying for a FB. :)

[GG]

Danielle!! I always wondered the same thing. Why do the Others call Alex Alex, if they took her when she was a week old AND Danielle has had no contact with the Others?
Also, (I know I say this all the time) but if I was on an Island for 16 years, I would've seen something by now, ran into someone; especially if my baby was kidnapped on a seemingly remote island. Danielle is a key player on the island-IMO and I'm dying for a FB. :)WOW! I never thought about that before. Good catch, Zia, and I agree with you, I think Danielle is a key player, too. I also think that's why TPTB have not shown her in a flashback yet. It wouldn't surprise me if Danielle is somehow connected to Dharma, Widmore or Mittleose. I can't wait for her flashback!

[catnap]

I agree we need a Danielle flashback. I loved Sawyer trying to make a bit more of an effort per Kate's request. I have to wonder why she calls herself an outcast though, she seems to be a popular figure on the island and not everyone knows about her past. Just Hurley and Jack so far, right?

[ozanna]

About Danielle - if she was a member of some sort of scientific research team that could explain why her name was on her jacket, especially if it was funded by a large corporation. Did we ever find out about that ? I'm half expecting for her fb (if she ever gets one ..... please !) to reveal that Danielle and her team were sent by somebody who was investigating Dharma or Widmore et al. Sickness ? No clue, and it hasn't been mentioned recently.

Yes, how did the others know Alex' name - maybe they had been doing some covert surveillance in the bushes when Alex was born and discovered her name that way. In that case, if they wanted the baby why didn't they take Danielle too. Of course that would have been too easy !

Poor Sayid - another tortured soul. He is another one who is forced to do things totally against his nature. Funny how with Sawyer's background he is condemned as being a degenerate criminal, whereas with Sayid what he did was wrong, but because he was ordered to do it by the military he was kind of let off the hook, so to speak. But he obviously took no pride in what he had done. Sayid regrets his past actions, but has not sunk to the depths of self hatred that Sawyer has. The fact that he has taken himself off on this island odyssey says a lot for his integrity.

Jack I think is feeling a lot of guilt over Sawyer's predicament, hence his hostility when changing the dressing on his arm, and Sawyer is enjoying this. Kate and her "as one outcast to another" line - I think what she really meant was - 'we're two of a kind, but you're actually worse than me so the worse you behave, the better you make me look. And I think she likes the fact that she can tell everyone else that shes the only one he'll open up to.

When Sawyer went up to the golf course and put in his bet for the sunscreen etc. who noticed the kind of resigned "told you so" expression on his face when everybody originally just stared at him, and then when Boone of all people called him on it, how he kind of ducked his head away almost as if he was moved that someone had actually responded to him.

Also hats off to Hurley for organizing the golf tournament, that and his camaraderie with Charlie. What a guy.

[Darkrogue]

I had always wondered the question of why the Others call her Alex as well. My guess would be that they heard Danielle crying the baby's name when they kidnapped her and kept the name out of some weird respect, thinking that doing so somehow made them "good guys". We know how twisted these people are. ;)

Another great episode (there were so many gems in season one). Sayid's flashbacks tie in very well with his on-island experience. I also noticed how worried Kate seems about Sayid. Again, it seems like they wanted to pursue some romantic attraction between those two as well, and somehow it just fell to the wayside. Kate's really got everyone's attention. You'd think she was the only female on the island! (which is why her "one outcast to another" line made me laugh, too)

General observations:

I'm glad they spent a full three seasons to finally get around explaining where that pesky cable in the sand leads. :)

Hurley shows that he is a leader in his own way. He has the skills already, but he is a different kind of leader than the rest. He makes people relax! Even his speech was inspiring in its own way, and proves he can exercise some level of authority on certain occasions. Later we see him utilize this ability to bring Sawyer out of his self-imposed 'loner mode' and to bring Charlie from his depression. He might not be aware of it, and might not be sure of himself, but he's definitely got influence.

Danielle is just as creepy as ever. Can't say I blame her for wanting to hang o to Sayid. He must seem like a real catch after she's been in the jungle for so long.

Bad Dad: Michael just doesn't 'get it'. Again, it's obvious how little experience he has in the Fatherhood department. He's much too restrictive for no good reason (he never gives Walt good reasons for any of his 'rules'), and he leaves him alone with a sleeping woman. Then, he asks Walt if he wants to play golf--only to tell him "maybe later" when his turn comes up. Didn't it occur to him to let Walt take his swing?

I noticed how Rousseau dances around the subject of Alex's identity until the very end.

First mention of the sickness here. I personally don't think sayid probed enough on this subject, especially towards the end. When he called after her, right before she walked away, I thought for sure he would ask what the symptoms are, what kind of sickness it is, etc. Instead, he asks her about Alex. Sweet, but definitely not what my parting question would have been. :D

ozanna, I also loved Sawyer's attempt to "fit in". It says something about Boone's nature that he was the first to "welcome him", as it were. I wonder if Sawyer's brief conversation with him towards the end of "White Rabbit" has anything to do with this? (Sawyer was the only one to talk to Boone after he was 'ostracized' over stealing the water)

Finally, the first introduction of the whispers. And we still don't know what they're all about!

[Dharma For One]

Kate and her "as one outcast to another" line - I think what she really meant was - 'we're two of a kind, but you're actually worse than me so the worse you behave, the better you make me look. And I think she likes the fact that she can tell everyone else that shes the only one he'll open up to.

When Sawyer went up to the golf course and put in his bet for the sunscreen etc. who noticed the kind of resigned "told you so" expression on his face when everybody originally just stared at him, and then when Boone of all people called him on it, how he kind of ducked his head away almost as if he was moved that someone had actually responded to him.

Also:

ozanna, I also loved Sawyer's attempt to "fit in". It says something about Boone's nature that he was the first to "welcome him", as it were. I wonder if Sawyer's brief conversation with him towards the end of "White Rabbit" has anything to do with this? (Sawyer was the only one to talk to Boone after he was 'ostracized' over stealing the water)

This is not what happened. Why does it seem that everyone hates Kate? Is it because these Rewatch postings are 90-100% from women? The more interesting question is if the tables were turned and it was 90-100% men, would it seem like everyone hated Sawyer? Somehow, I doubt that. Why is that?

Also, on the Danielle fb. Perhaps it will reveal that Ben knew how crazy Danielle became, and he took Alex for her own safety (which is foreshadowed when the Others took the taily children for their own safety). Field goal!

[catnap]

Yes, it was definitely Kate that encouraged Sawyer to try a little harder and then Kate that finally said "I'll take that action" when Sawyer put in a bet for sunscreen and everyone just stared. Kate likes him and is trying to help him fit in a little better. After Kate says that then Boone says he wants to get in on it too since they need sunscreen. I love Kate and Sawyer together so I always watch their interaction pretty closely. I love when Jack says to Sawyer "no one wants to be around you" and Sawyer thinks for a minute, gets a smile on his face, and says "she does." Boy does that piss Jack off!

[Darkrogue]

You are correct, it was Kate who instigated the exchange; Boone was the first who followed up. Sorry about the confusion. And for the record, I don’t hate Kate. At this point in the series, I liked her very much and thought she was the most awesome female character on the show.

I simply dislike what the writers have done with her since. There is a difference. ;) Though that is a different topic for discussion entirely.

On the other hand, I did hate Sawyer early in the series. It was only after "Confidence Man" that I began warming up to him.

[Dharma For One]

Yes, it was definitely Kate that encouraged Sawyer to try a little harder and then Kate that finally said "I'll take that action" when Sawyer put in a bet for sunscreen and everyone just stared. Kate likes him and is trying to help him fit in a little better. After Kate says that then Boone says he wants to get in on it too since they need sunscreen. I love Kate and Sawyer together so I always watch their interaction pretty closely. I love when Jack says to Sawyer "no one wants to be around you" and Sawyer thinks for a minute, gets a smile on his face, and says "she does." Boy does that piss Jack off! Safety! Lol! That's good defense!

You are correct, it was Kate who instigated the exchange; Boone was the first who followed up. Sorry about the confusion. And for the record, I don’t hate Kate. At this point in the series, I liked her very much and thought she was the most awesome female character on the show.

I simply dislike what the writers have done with her since. There is a difference. ;) Though that is a different topic for discussion entirely.
Perhaps 'hate' was just a bit of hyperbole on my part, taking my cue from Jack hate. However, I also disliked the unlikely Kate/toyplane affair, which TPTB admitted was a weaker point in the story, of which I doubt anything will come of it to the chagrin of many. That said, I'd just as soon forget that so i can continue to enjoy the contrasting portrayal by EL of this outwardly charming but subtley conniving, strong yet vulnerable, leader yet follower, intensely emotional yet powerful female character. Beyond that, what's to dislike? (I'd be glad to carry on when we get to a relevant thread as long as it doesn't involve moral arguments).

[ozanna]

Dharma for One - I'm also appologizing for my comments about the sunscreen bet. Also I don't think I said I hate Kate, because I don't, in fact I quite liked her in this epi, I just don't quite trust her. I don't think everyone hates her, or loves Sawyer. I like Sawyer because I think he is an intriguing character, and on a purely shallow note, he has physical attributes which appeal to me, as I am sure Kate's phyical attributes appeal to some of the males ! I'm far too old to be a fan girl, but I still like to look at attractive people of which I consider Sawyer to be one !!!

Anyway as I said before, excellent episode (at least I think I did !)

[Dharma For One]

No need to apologize. I've made my share of gafs on these forums and my strategy is to just keep them buried and forgotten! :D You're certainly entitled to your opinion on characters, and it would be wrong to hold back what you think about them. In Kate's case your opinion is probably pretty much the same as mine. I don't think we're supposed to trust Kate. So, I apologize for using the wrong word.

However, about the fanboy/fangirl word which pops up periodically in these types of discussions: that applies to people who don't call it as they see it, or are blind to seeing things in more than one way. Some, perhaps many, people act as if they're afraid of that label instead of just expressing their opinion as they conceive it. This indicates that they are conciously or unconciously phrasing things in a certain way to avoid that label, which is wrong-headed. I'm not saying this applies to you. I am expressing my opinion about the word.

[Hodgepodge]

Rewatched this one last night for Danielle's character-walkthroughs. Solitary ended up 12th on my S1 ranking list.

Regarding the "Others" calling Alex, Alex. I've always gone along with Darkrogue's comment about hearing her scream the baby's name throughout the jungle. Sort of like Michael screaming Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaalt! :nanabobo:

I've also come to the conclusion there's more to Danielle's story than she's told. I'm convinced she and her team were looking for the island when their ship ran aground. She knows to much about traps and such. Could she be paramilitary? Could they've been sent to investigate the "incident"?

Brian has a great theory about our elusive hermite. You can find it here (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1380959&postcount=7). Give it a read, it makes a lot of sense.

[thatbutton]

Thanks for the link Hodge. That theory makes a lot of sense. Especially considering the way Ben said, "Alex...meet your mother," (or something to that effect) in the Season 3 finale. Something about the way he said that made it seem like they had a past together.

And without that past between Ben and Danielle, I really don't see why the others would have continued to call her Alex, even if they knew that was her name, because it would've just made it easier for Danielle to find her and given her more credibility in proving to Alex she was her mother if she ever did.

[Hodgepodge]

Thanks for the link Hodge. That theory makes a lot of sense. Especially considering the way Ben said, "Alex...meet your mother," (or something to that effect) in the Season 3 finale. Something about the way he said that made it seem like they had a past together...Believe me Thatbutton, you weren't alone in that assumption. It was so, matter-of-fact. "Alex. This is your mother."

[Darkrogue]

(I'd be glad to carry on when we get to a relevant thread as long as it doesn't involve moral arguments).

Oh, of course. My current problems with Kate don't have to do with moral arguments at all. They have to do more with the way the writers have handled her in general since season 1 (but a lot of characters have suffered in this area--not just Kate). Actually, we could discuss it in the WHATDAHELL thread. Khan and a few of us are trying to organize a project that examines how all the characters have been written/handled for the past three seasons--the good and the bad. ;)

ETA: Btw, I've been observing your Football thread, and I must say I'm impressed with the cleverness of the posts.

However, about the fanboy/fangirl word which pops up periodically in these types of discussions: that applies to people who don't call it as they see it, or are blind to seeing things in more than one way. Some, perhaps many, people act as if they're afraid of that label instead of just expressing their opinion as they conceive it. This indicates that they are conciously or unconciously phrasing things in a certain way to avoid that label, which is wrong-headed. I'm not saying this applies to you. I am expressing my opinion about the word.

Agreed, that word is one that I would also apply to those who are a bit, er, blinded by their undying love (or lust ;)) for a character to the point that they don't recognize flaws or just plain stupidity in said character.



I've also come to the conclusion there's more to Danielle's story than she's told. I'm convinced she and her team were looking for the island when their ship ran aground. She knows to much about traps and such. Could she be paramilitary? Could they've been sent to investigate the "incident"?

Brian has a great theory about our elusive hermite. You can find it here (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1380959&postcount=7). Give it a read, it makes a lot of sense.

Oh, yes, I agree. Danielle's story has never quite seemed to "add up", really. I'd be willing to bet that at least a few elements of Brian's theory are likely. There was definitely something strange about Ben's line in the finale, and she just seems to know too much, in spite of her silence. Sometimes silence is the greatest giveaway. She's always been that loose cannon you can't quite trust, that wild card whose loyalties are never exactly certain.

I personally think he's on to something with the Easter Bunny theory. ;)

[ozchick]

We see Ethan for the first time in Solitary, hunting with Locke. I've wondered why, even though he was suppossed to have been with the losties since the very first day this is the first we see of him.

I'd like to discuss this a bit further. This is the first look at Ethan. I'm not as concerned about having not seen him before (I'm going to attribute that to late casting) but I think it is very interesting that he has aligned himself with Locke. Has Ben wanted Locke from the beginning? We saw Ben order Ethan to get lists on day 1, but it's been over 2 weeks. I'm sure Ethan's reported back by now, and received new instructions. Perhaps he's been told to get close to Locke.

I don't have too much more on this episode, other than to say Naveen Andrews did some very nice work. Also, we were introduced to the concept of the "next life" or another life as Des says. The words on Nadia's picture say "You'll find me in the next life, if not in this one."

Oh, and I love Hurley! :D

Sawyer nicknames, only one but it's good:
Dr. Quinn: Jack

[Hodgepodge]

I'd like to discuss this a bit further. This is the first look at Ethan. I'm not as concerned about having not seen him before (I'm going to attribute that to late casting) but I think it is very interesting that he has aligned himself with Locke. Has Ben wanted Locke from the beginning? We saw Ben order Ethan to get lists on day 1, but it's been over 2 weeks. I'm sure Ethan's reported back by now, and received new instructions. Perhaps he's been told to get close to Locke...Very Interesting Ozchick! We learn from the episode Maternity Leave, Ethan was tardy with his list. "What the hell happened? You were supposed to make the list and then bring her in. Was I unclear?" Now this does leave the impression he'd told them about the pregnant Claire, so maybe you're right.

Are you thinking Ben and the "Others" had gotten information on the Losties and found out Locke was in a wheelchair prior to crashing on the island? Remember we found out Mikhail was working on passenger profiles before any of the bodies were cold. I think I'm onboard! :)

[ozchick]

Very Interesting Ozchick! We learn from the episode Maternity Leave, Ethan was tardy with his list. "What the hell happened? You were supposed to make the list and then bring her in. Was I unclear?" Now this does leave the impression he'd told them about the pregnant Claire, so maybe you're right.

Are you thinking Ben and the "Others" had gotten information on the Losties and found out Locke was in a wheelchair prior to crashing on the island? Remember we found out Mikhail was working on passenger profiles before any of the bodies were cold. I think I'm onboard! :)

Knowing what we know now, I think it is very interesting that the first time we see Ethan, he's with Locke. Given the later attention that is paid to Locke, and knowing, as you said, that Mikhail had been getting the info on the passengers, I think Ethan must have had some kind of orders to befriend him. I'm going to keep my eye out for further interactions between them, as I keep re-watching.

[Dharma For One]

...I've been observing your Football thread, and I must say I'm impressed with the cleverness of the posts.
Thanks, it must be the MacCutcheon Whiskey.
Khan and a few of us are trying to organize a project that examines how all the characters have been written/handled for the past three seasons--the good and the bad. ;)
Do you mean like this?

Sayid:

S1: I was a military communications officer; I got people to communicate. But, I can't do that anymore so I'm going to banish myself to the French Woman's bed today and let her shackle and torture me.
S2: That's it, you do it good Nadi.. eehh Shannon. Sorry... Did I tell you that I like cats too? Never mind.
S3: Daddy, will you push harder! (at the swingset) ......... Are we rolling...?

Or:

Danielle's Family *

We're creepy and we're cooky,
Mysterious and spooky, **
We're altogether ooky,
We're Danielle's family!

Her body's like a palace,
I should've called her Alice,
Then why'd I name her Alex?
We're Danielle's family!

Here in S2 samo,
I'm altogether lamo,
I forgot my hubbies namo,
We're Danielle's family!

So here we are in S3,
I don't know who undressed me,
The Whisperers or just me,
We're Danielle's family!

She thinks that Ben's her father,
I know she's not his daughter,
Get ready for the slaughter,
We're Danielle's family!

So now I've got the dyno,
To blow up hell if I know,
I'm looking really fino,
We're Danielle's family!

So what's to come in S4?
It's something to be guessed for.
Will sexy Sayid 'torture' me?
We're Danielle's family!

* sung to the Adam's Family theme
** apologies to spooky

[Hodgepodge]

Knowing what we know now, I think it is very interesting that the first time we see Ethan, he's with Locke. Given the later attention that is paid to Locke, and knowing, as you said, that Mikhail had been getting the info on the passengers, I think Ethan must have had some kind of orders to befriend him. I'm going to keep my eye out for further interactions between them, as I keep re-watching.Do you remember that conversation between Locke and Jack on Ethan's trail after the kidnapping in All the Best Cowboys Have Daddy Issues? "I hunted with Ethan. I spent time with him. I never sensed anything off. But for everything that I know about hunting, tracking -- whoever he is, he knows more." I think this adds to your suspicion.

[jane_eire]

Danielle's music box has a mirror on it. It's from her lover. When Sayid opens it, he doesn't start working on it. Instead, he starts asking questions, and Danielle starts answering. Danielle opens up, in effect. The music box is a mirror to her heart.

Sayid's envelope contains pictures of Nadia. Nadia's name is also "Noor", which is a Sufi term meaning light, and metaphorically, light reflected off the mirror of the heart. When Danielle opens up the envelope, she starts asking Sayid questions, and he answers. The envelope is a mirror to his heart.

[Darkrogue]

Thanks, it must be the MacCutcheon Whiskey.
Do you mean like this?

Sayid:

S1: I was a military communications officer; I got people to communicate. But, I can't do that anymore so I'm going to banish myself to the French Woman's bed today and let her shackle and torture me.
S2: That's it, you do it good Nadi.. eehh Shannon. Sorry... Did I tell you that I like cats too? Never mind.
S3: Daddy, will you push harder! (at the swingset) ......... Are we rolling...?

Or:

Danielle's Family *

We're creepy and we're cooky,
Mysterious and spooky, **
We're altogether ooky,
We're Danielle's family!

Her body's like a palace,
I should've called her Alice,
Then why'd I name her Alex?
We're Danielle's family!

Here in S2 samo,
I'm altogether lamo,
I forgot my hubbies namo,
We're Danielle's family!

So here we are in S3,
I don't know who undressed me,
The Whisperers or just me,
We're Danielle's family!

She thinks that Ben's her father,
I know she's not his daughter,
Get ready for the slaughter,
We're Danielle's family!

So now I've got the dyno,
To blow up hell if I know,
I'm looking really fino,
We're Danielle's family!

So what's to come in S4?
It's something to be guessed for.
Will sexy Sayid 'torture' me?
We're Danielle's family!

* sung to the Adam's Family theme
** apologies to spooky

:D :D

[Des02]

Wow, I finally got to sit down and watch Solitary.. Who would have known at this time Ethan would have turned out to be who he was. I don’t know if I had stepped out of the room or something (this was before my DVR days) but I totally missed Sayid and Nadia being childhood friends before so that was a bit of a surprise. I thought they just fell in love while she was being held captive. And why why why if Sayid was a trained soldier wouldn’t he notice the firing pin was removed? I don’t know anything about them so maybe its not something that’s noticeable but it seems like it would be… I know they had to come up with a way for him to not shoot her. And was all the stuff in her bunker from her ship? She seems to have a lot of stuff in there, I also I liked hearing the story of their crash again. I cant wait until we have a Danielle FB!

[Hodgepodge]

Jane_Eris, let me welcome you to Lost-TV, I'm sure you're going to enjoy the community. Make sure and read the New Member Welcome (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25440) post and introduce yourself in the same thread. Also, be sure and read the Rules and Guideline (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1361508#post1361508). They're both here to help make your stay a happy one. Now to your post.


Danielle's music box has a mirror on it. It's from her lover. When Sayid opens it, he doesn't start working on it. Instead, he starts asking questions, and Danielle starts answering. Danielle opens up, in effect. The music box is a mirror to her heart.

Sayid's envelope contains pictures of Nadia. Nadia's name is also "Noor", which is a Sufi term meaning light, and metaphorically, light reflected off the mirror of the heart. When Danielle opens up the envelope, she starts asking Sayid questions, and he answers. The envelope is a mirror to his heart.That's so beautiful! :cry:

And again :welcome:


...And was all the stuff in her bunker from her ship? She seems to have a lot of stuff in there, I also I liked hearing the story of their crash again...Des02, we've got some screencaps of all that stuff in her bunker somewhere. I'll see if I can find it and post a link.

We kinda came to a census that she's been gathering stuff she's found on the island for those 16 years. We noticed a Civil Defense insignia and some other stuff circa WWII.

[Des02]

copol looking at pervious screencaps would be great

[Unlocke Locke]

I always was curious about how Danielle got electricity in her bunker and how she kept the shots refrigerated.

[Dharma For One]

Danielle's music box has a mirror on it. It's from her lover. When Sayid opens it, he doesn't start working on it. Instead, he starts asking questions, and Danielle starts answering. Danielle opens up, in effect. The music box is a mirror to her heart.

Sayid's envelope contains pictures of Nadia. Nadia's name is also "Noor", which is a Sufi term meaning light, and metaphorically, light reflected off the mirror of the heart. When Danielle opens up the envelope, she starts asking Sayid questions, and he answers. The envelope is a mirror to his heart.
Touchdown! "Now that's the way football should be played."
I always was curious about how Danielle got electricity in her bunker and how she kept the shots refrigerated.
It was the 16 year old batteries. Let me start bailing by suggesting that if she was aboard a science ship maybe they had solar powered batteries. Maybe there was a solar collecting array just outside of view of her bunker. :)

[Hodgepodge]

copol looking at pervious screencaps would be greatDes02, I found what I wanted to link, but it was from the old EZdays and the thread no longer exists. :pullhair: I did find this one (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=772389#post772389), which has a couple of screencaps. I hope it helps.

[Annie]

I just finished watching Solitary. It seemed to me that Ethan would have
joined up with Locke because he is so gullible; he was an easy target.
That was quite a good thought though that he may have been targeted by Ben.

So much has been said, so I will just mention a few things I noticed.
When we first see Sayid in Danielle's den, he is hearing "Where is Alex?" in
many different languages. Danielle is quite knowledgeable.

It also struck me how prepared Danielle was for unforseen hostilities. The
losties might have taken a page from her book. Had she not had some
unpleasant contacts with the others, why would she have traps everywhere?
Why would she be so suspicious of Sayid and not welcome him warmly to
have contact with another human being? There's some history there. We
really do need a fb.

I loved the golf game. Hurley is so in tune with his fellow losties needs.
Kate was looking out for Sawyer, it seemed, when she asks him to participate
more. She especially seemed to be trying to help him when she was the
first to take him up on his bet. This was a very enjoyable episode. Lots
of info brought to bear. The hiatus rewatches are going too fast for me :).

[Hodgepodge]

...When we first see Sayid in Danielle's den, he is hearing "Where is Alex?" in
many different languages. Danielle is quite knowledgeable...This reminded me of the introduction of Naomi Dorrit. She was also fluent in several languages. Even their arrivals on Craphole Island are similar.

The sky turns purple, and all of a sudden the island is there. "...till 3 days ago. I was flying back for the ship when all the sudden the clouds cleared and I saw land. The instruments started spinning. I realized I was going down, so I grabbed my chute and I bailed."

In Danielle's case! "Our ship picked up a transmission, a voice repeating those numbers. We changed course to investigate. After we shipwrecked my team continued to search for the transmission source."

Thanks for the reminder Annie! :wave2:

[GardenMom]

Back to the golf game for a minute...did you note how infuriated Charlie got when he didn't make his shot, and then Jack steps up next and people start their betting pool. Charlie stamps off muttering - it appears he is still very resentful of Jack, like he was in "The Moth", but I thought they had resolved their issues in that episode.

[Darkrogue]

This reminded me of the introduction of Naomi Dorrit. She was also fluent in several languages. Even their arrivals on Craphole Island are similar.

The sky turns purple, and all of a sudden the island is there. "...till 3 days ago. I was flying back for the ship when all the sudden the clouds cleared and I saw land. The instruments started spinning. I realized I was going down, so I grabbed my chute and I bailed."

In Danielle's case! "Our ship picked up a transmission, a voice repeating those numbers. We changed course to investigate. After we shipwrecked my team continued to search for the transmission source."

Thanks for the reminder Annie! :wave2:

I thought of that as well, later on.

Back to the golf game for a minute...did you note how infuriated Charlie got when he didn't make his shot, and then Jack steps up next and people start their betting pool. Charlie stamps off muttering - it appears he is still very resentful of Jack, like he was in "The Moth", but I thought they had resolved their issues in that episode.

I did notice that. Way back when, Mr. Darkrogue and I agreed that was a “testy little cuss” moment. :D

One of his many flaws is pride: hence, he doesn’t react well when that pride is wounded, in whatever small way. I also think Charlie is so used to losing/being outdone by others that he tends to take petty things to heart. He’s been diminished and belittled enough that he sometimes has a hard time of seeing a game as just a game.

Remember, he spent his years as a "rock god" in the shadow of his brother. Even in fame he was diminished: Liam was the one who sucked up all the glory while Charlie was relegated to roadie and tire-changing flunky. A lot of his reactions are spill-over from that experience. Plus, in a way, Jack is something of a replacement “big brother” to Charlie, so there is a bit of displacement going on here. Thus, I think it is a combination of factors at work: pride, a history of being belittled/outshined and the tendency to take things too dang personally. He feels he is being overshadowed by the "big shot doctor".

Some of it is also probably anger with himself; he knows he's generally a screw-up, and he harbors some deep-rooted disappointment in himself, which doesn't help, and carries over to very petty things. Part of his reaction is probably just Charlie being frustrated with himself for screwing up the shot--just like he screws up everything else. Poor sod.

There are a few other times when he behaves similarly with other characters, over relatively stupid things. His resentment towards Jack is also hinted in Raised By Another when he argues with him over the validity of Claire’s fears: “You know everything that’s going on with everyone!”

Of course he’s not the only one to grumble about/resist Jack in the show at this point. The Doc has been confronted/questioned by at least Sawyer, Kate, and Sayid. People at first challenged him more. We’ve seen a return of some resistance to him towards the end of the third season, but I always suspected there would be more of a rift than we have actually seen.

[Freckles+The Best Cowboy]

Regarding the "Others" calling Alex, Alex. I've always gone along with Darkrogue's comment about hearing her scream the baby's name throughout the jungle. Sort of like Michael screaming Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaalt! :nanabobo:
:yeah:

Thats what I assume as well. Could be a deeper reason, though. I'm one of those who agree there's WAAAAAY more to Rousseau than we are led to believe.... I think that's why we HAVENT gotten a flashback for her. There's gonna be some major island/other/dharma reveal in her past, I'm sure.

Oh, of course. My current problems with Kate don't have to do with moral arguments at all. They have to do more with the way the writers have handled her in general since season 1 (but a lot of characters have suffered in this area--not just Kate). Actually, we could discuss it in the WHATDAHELL thread. Khan and a few of us are trying to organize a project that examines how all the characters have been written/handled for the past three seasons--the good and the bad. ;)


I think you're right, this can be said for MANY characters..... a LOT of people admit they liked S1 Kate but hate the way she is now. I'll even say I don't much enjoy some of the things the writers have done with Kate, but I noticed that a LOT of people felt Locke got reduced to a terrible waste [a 'boob', I believe is the popular term for him].... HOWEVER.... Locke made a REAL comeback and he's regained both competence and importance recently... it's all a part of the character's journey. Locke lost his faith... now he's got it back again. Kate is on the same kind of redemptive journey.... or so I tell myself, anyway. I'm trying to keep MY faith. Kate's a far cry from her S1 power player position.... but we saw midseason that when she's got a purpose she can pull herself together and whup some ass.... Hopefully she, like Locke, and yes, Charlie before her, she'll make a comeback of her own. Once you hit bottom, there's no place to go but up, right? ;)

I loved the golf game thing, it was really cute and a nice way to lighten the tone of the episode.

Interesting look into Sayid's past. the only question I had was WHY would he tell Danielle that Nadia is dead? I forgot about this.... It seems an odd thing to lie about, no?

Ah, the introduction to Danielle, one of the most helpful and mysterious characters on the island. She's also done her share of 'harm', in regards to taking Aaron and what not... but she's been a wildcard all along. Now that she's found Alex, who's side is she on?

Dude count: 7. Dude Total: 27.

[Dharma For One]

Interesting look into Sayid's past. the only question I had was WHY would he tell Danielle that Nadia is dead? I forgot about this.... It seems an odd thing to lie about, no?
That's Sayid's impression of Howard Stern when he said that his wife died to all the girls but he was still going home to her every night- the sympathy ploy and romance angle combo. Baba booey baba booey baba booey Howard Stern Howard Stern!

[Black Manta]

Didn't Danielle say her team was three days out of Tahiti? Assuming they were heading West or Northwest wouldn't that give up an idea of the location of the island?

[ZIA]

Didn't Danielle say her team was three days out of Tahiti? Assuming they were heading West or Northwest wouldn't that give up an idea of the location of the island?

It should, but the Island isn't visible as far as we know. Plus, Ben is blocking all the communications equiptment.

[Hodgepodge]

...I think you're right, this can be said for MANY characters..... a LOT of people admit they liked S1 Kate but hate the way she is now. I'll even say I don't much enjoy some of the things the writers have done with Kate, but I noticed that a LOT of people felt Locke got reduced to a terrible waste [a 'boob', I believe is the popular term for him].... HOWEVER.... Locke made a REAL comeback and he's regained both competence and importance recently... it's all a part of the character's journey. Locke lost his faith... now he's got it back again. Kate is on the same kind of redemptive journey.... or so I tell myself, anyway. I'm trying to keep MY faith. Kate's a far cry from her S1 power player position.... but we saw midseason that when she's got a purpose she can pull herself together and whup some ass.... Hopefully she, like Locke, and yes, Charlie before her, she'll make a comeback of her own. Once you hit bottom, there's no place to go but up, right? ;)S2 Kate was just window dressing. She got so much press from the first season, TPTB thought they could just have her stand around and look gorgeous. Well, we showed them! :nanabobo:

S3 didn't start out much better, but as we've discussed, it was hard when she's a captive. TPTB tried when they put her in that dress and had her bend over a couple of times. Okay I enjoyed that like every other guy, but I was glad when she escaped. I'm looking forward to her return to glory.

Locke is another story! He went from "Great White Hunter" in S1 to cubicle-guy in S2. Somebody should've blew that hatch up a long time ago.

This last season's Locke forced me to turn in my Webelos banner (We Believe in Locke). He betrayed everybody from the Losties to the "Others". Just read my Sentencing (http://losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33176) thread for Locke's crimes against humanity, and what I feel should be his sentence.

[ozanna]

Hodgepodge

Go and get that Webelos banner right back ! OK Locke has ERRED, but he has not totally gone off his rocker yet - actually maybe thats not a good way to put it ! Have faith, Hodge, and give the poor old bugger a chance to redeem himself. If anyone should hate him Sawyer should, but when Locke thanked him for killing Cooper, Sawyer just sort of looked at him as if to say "thats cool, mate, any time". Is this place getting more and more bizarre or is it just me ! But what I was going to say was that no matter how much of a boob Locke became, Jack is 100% worse. His behaviour just got more and more erratic and weird towards the end of S3. Paranoia, megalomania, pig headedness - "I'm the leader", "she's under my protection", "I won't have the guns in the hand of amateurs" etc. etc. etc.
I read your Sentencing thread, it was very entertaining. I read it a while ago, but I can't remember why ! Safe to say it made sense. I really can't make up my mind about Locke, one moment I hate him with a vengeance and wouldn't trust him for a moment, and the next I really empathize with him. Which is the sign of a really good character. Same with Sawyer.

So next time you get all bitter and twisted about Locke Hodge have a good look at Jack - at least it'll give you a bit of a laugh !

[Darkrogue]

S2 Kate was just window dressing. She got so much press from the first season, TPTB thought they could just have her stand around and look gorgeous. Well, we showed them! :nanabobo:

S3 didn't start out much better, but as we've discussed, it was hard when she's a captive. TPTB tried when they put her in that dress and had her bend over a couple of times. Okay I enjoyed that like every other guy, but I was glad when she escaped.

Ugh. Just…ugh. (I’m female, so you can probably guess how I felt about those scenes. :nanabobo: As if it wasn’t bad enough they completely took her backbone away and relegated her to damsel in distress role. I won’t even mention the tasteless cage sex and mud wrestling). These writers get more and more like giggling teenaged boys as the series progresses. Sure, there was eye candy in S1 (Kate in her panties and plenty of shirtless Sawyer), but it never came off as cheap or gratuitous.

I agree about Locke being damaged as well. Season two assassinated a lot of the characters (Michael, Claire and Sawyer suffered as well, besides the ones we have already mentioned). Locke did several things that were completely out of character (changing his entire button philosophy, beating a blubbering man half his size who wasn’t even defending himself, whining around in the hatch washing dishes). When he wasn’t skulking in the background and carrying a baby around and having no screentime at all, Charlie was transformed into a nasty, smarmy, hateful little weasel when he wasn’t acting like an all-out lunatic. And that was before he was made Sawyer’s bungling, kidnapping toady-lapdog, successfully vilifying both Charlie and Sawyer at once. By the end of season two, I hated every single character on the island I think. This was also when my opinion of Jack plummeted completely off the map.

S3 helped many things, but others not so much. Season three brought back “hunter Locke”, but not so much compassionate/helpful Locke. It lifted Sawyer some, only to knock him down again. It brought back likable Charlie only to kill him. :confused:

Needless to say, when the season two rewatch discussion begins, it is going to be interesting. ;)


It should, but the Island isn't visible as far as we know. Plus, Ben is blocking all the communications equiptment.

Er, wait a tick? I'm sure this has been discussed elswhere, but for my own clarification: doesn’t this make several things problematic? What about the Flame? Weren’t they communicating from there, or at least until “the sky turned purple”? If so, how were coms from The Flame making it off the island if they’ve had jamming equipment blocking all signals all this time?

Sorry if that's a bonehead question. :dunce:

[Hodgepodge]

Ozanna, I don't think there was a bigger fan of Locke's than yours truly. In my book he could do no harm. I even turned my head when he bopped Boone over the head and left him tied up in Hearts and Minds. Because, you and I both know Boone needed it.

It started going bad when he allowed his obsession with that damn hatch to cloud his judgement. This resulted in Boone's death. "Boone was a sacrifice that the island demanded..." Once he got inside, he reverted to his former self, cubicle-Locke.

This last season I didn't recognize the man. From destroying the sub to desertion. Leaving a fellow Lostie to fend for herself. And lets not talk about the cold-blooded murder of Naomi Dorrit. Okay, I'm getting mad again! :mad:


Ugh. Just…ugh. (I’m female, so you can probably guess how I felt about those scenes. :nanabobo: As if it wasn’t bad enough they completely took her backbone away and relegated her to damsel in distress role. I won’t even mention the tasteless cage sex and mud wrestling). These writers get more and more like giggling teenaged boys as the series progresses. Sure, there was eye candy in S1 (Kate in her panties and plenty of shirtless Sawyer), but it never came off as cheap or gratuitous...I couldn't agree more. Maybe it was the newness that allowed us to accept Kate swimming in her panties and Sawyer not owning a shirt, but as you mention, you never got the impression it was done deliberately


...I agree about Locke being damaged as well. Season two assassinated a lot of the characters (Michael, Claire and Sawyer suffered as well, besides the ones we have already mentioned). Locke did several things that were completely out of character (changing his entire button philosophy, beating a blubbering man half his size who wasn’t even defending himself, whining around in the hatch washing dishes). When he wasn’t skulking in the background and carrying a baby around and having no screentime at all, Charlie was transformed into a nasty, smarmy, hateful little weasel when he wasn’t acting like an all-out lunatic. And that was before he was made Sawyer’s bungling, kidnapping toady-lapdog, successfully vilifying both Charlie and Sawyer at once. By the end of season two, I hated every single character on the island I think. This was also when my opinion of Jack plummeted completely off the map...I remember reading an article at the end of S1 and before the beginning of S2, that TPTB built the hatch set to save money. Apparently it's so expense to film in Hawaii, this was a way to cut costs. It may've worked, but the result drove a lot viewers to other channels.


...Er, wait a tick? I'm sure this has been discussed elswhere, but for my own clarification: doesn’t this make several things problematic? What about the Flame? Weren’t they communicating from there, or at least until “the sky turned purple”? If so, how were coms from The Flame making it off the island if they’ve had jamming equipment blocking all signals all this time?

Sorry if that's a bonehead question. :dunce:I don't think it's a bonehead question. I assumed the radio tower and the Flame used different modes of communication. Wasn't there a communication dish outside the Flame when it was introduced?


...Interesting look into Sayid's past. the only question I had was WHY would he tell Danielle that Nadia is dead? I forgot about this.... It seems an odd thing to lie about, no?...Going back to the discussion of this episode. Does this add to the time-loop theory? The idea that in one loop Nadia dies, and another Sayid finds out she's living in California.

[ZIA]

Er, wait a tick? I'm sure this has been discussed elswhere, but for my own clarification: doesn’t this make several things problematic? What about the Flame? Weren’t they communicating from there, or at least until “the sky turned purple”? If so, how were coms from The Flame making it off the island if they’ve had jamming equipment blocking all signals all this time?

Sorry if that's a bonehead question. :dunce:
No, You're not crazy! I know exactly what you're saying. It's the same issue I have. It can't be that HUGE of a continuity error, can it?

Clearly, we see Mikhail standing in front of remote live cameras in the Flame hatch when 815 went down, unless Ben jacked the comm. after the crash, then you're right, it doesn't make much sense.

[lizzo]

Good points about the communications problem...did they ever say when Ben started the "jamming" thing in the Looking Glass? I know they claim that they couldn't communicate since the Swan blew, but was that true?

[Hodgepodge]

Good points about the communications problem...did they ever say when Ben started the "jamming" thing in the Looking Glass? I know they claim that they couldn't communicate since the Swan blew, but was that true?Lizzo, I'm going to look, but I don't think they did. :confused: Ben just confessed to Mikhail he lied. :rolleyez:

[Wiserbud]

I'm late to the rewatch party, just started S1. In regard to Danielle, her recording states they all died 16 years ago. Isn't that about the time of the purge? Maybe she was an original Dharma member and survived the purge. That would explain her name on her jacket.

[Black Manta]

I'm late to the rewatch party, just started S1. In regard to Danielle, her recording states they all died 16 years ago. Isn't that about the time of the purge? Maybe she was an original Dharma member and survived the purge. That would explain her name on her jacket.

I feel so stupid. It never occurred to me that the disease and the purge might be related.

[Hodgepodge]

I'm late to the rewatch party, just started S1. In regard to Danielle, her recording states they all died 16 years ago. Isn't that about the time of the purge? Maybe she was an original Dharma member and survived the purge. That would explain her name on her jacket.

I feel so stupid. It never occurred to me that the disease and the purge might be related.Quit a few members have questioned Danielle's story of her arrival and motives for being on Craphole Island. I've felt for some time she was sent by whomever to find the island.

Black Manta are you thinking her arrival coincides with Ben's island takeover? Can we make that fit within the timeline and what we know of things?

According to the transcripts, she and her team were on the island 2 months before they found the Black Rock. "We were coming back from the Black Rock. It was them. They were the carriers." So, if she assumed whatever Ben and Richard unleashed that day was a disease, why wasn't she infected? Could it be as simple as she had a gas mask? I like this guys! ;)

[Black Manta]

Well we never really have had any evidence of a diease so far so it could be anything. Do we know what Ben released? What if it was a toxin of some kind that moved with the wind and was deluted in the process? It wouldn't kill right away but might affect the nervous system in such a way as to drive them mad.

Was Danielle pregnant at the time? Maybe that's why she was immune (stretching I know, but there have been larger leaps on the show).

Timeline wise-I don't have a clue.

[sweetsunray]

DANIELLE:
Danielle does speak a lot of languages, doesn't she, indeed comparable to Naomi. And although I too think Danielle hasn't told the Losties the whole truth, I do believe her that she doesn't know the Others all that well. Why would she be speaking so many languages if she was once amongst them. If she was for example Ben's wife then she would have known that the Others could understand English just fine. Her message of the tower though in the pilot suggests she believes she's not just SOS-ing any coincidental receiver, but people who know the island, who know who's with her... it's as if she's leaving a message for those who sent her on a mission towards the island, and that may very well be the same people who sent Naomi, or the Dharma Iniative after they lost contact with their people after Ben's killing spree. Danielle talks about change of control over the tower to Sayid when she has him with her ("But they control it now"). If I add this up to her reiterated messages, then I'm thinking that not long after Ben killed everyone in Otherville, a team of investigators was sent out to what happened with the information that hostiles may have taken control and if so they have to regain it and/or ensure minimal workings of stations, and Danielle was part of that team. Also that Danielle's message has been looping for sixteen years now unanswered suggests that Ben has been jamming signals with the help of the Looking Glass for sixteen years already, and that Danielle's instructors abandoned the investigation mission.

Still is weird how Desmond's button partner ended up on the island. He claimed to have been sent as Dharma volunteer, and that must have been within those last sixteen years, since he was in the first Gulf War shaping Sayid into a torturer before he arrived on the island. How did they manage to do that if the Others already had control over the island? That's one of those unsolved mysteries I hope we learn more about the coming season.

THE WRITING OF SAYID's CHARACTER
TPTB do seem to have abandoned Sayid in their writing over the past two years. Certainly his quest for Nadia seems to be abandoned. And I'm very sorry for this. Naveen is a great actor and Sayid is a positive as well as deeply emotionally layered figure (as played by Naveen) who could have been included in the on-island story much more, if not centering one more FB on him. I don't think they seem to know what to do with his FBs actually. His search for Nadia seems to be forgotten in later FBs, except for the one that tells us how he ended up on fligth 815 for his infiltration mission in Sidney with the terrorrist cell and that he pulls up his head when Mikhail uses the name Nadia to his cat. I really wonder what that Enter 77 FB was for. And yes it conflicts with Sayid claiming he doesn't udnerstand French if he worked and lived in Paris, no matter how touching it was it seemed to have no purpose at all.

However, I don't think their writing problems for the character of Sayid has little to do with losing interest, but all the more because they defined him too narrow and have written him in a plot corner from the start: after this episode we kinda know everything there's to know about Sayid. He was a soldier with the Republican Guard in the Gulf War, a torturer (part of the communication officer tasksheet) and the last few years he has roamed the world to search for his lost love Nadia, and he hasn't found her yet, and only these three things define him. I'm wondering whether they had planned for Sayid to last as long as he did. It is quite possible that they had planned to have Sayid killed by Smokey (his FB in S3 is about confessing), but because the actor of Eko wanted out, they switched it.

They could use the torture past angel for so much, as it is such a heavy moral subject. And his past love life isn't the most interesting to get into either to begin with, because well he hasn't found Nadia yet, has he? They did try to blow new life into his love life with Shannon, but that only ended up handicapping him more, and imo not really all that believable against his proclaimed true love for Nadia. That too is an indication they didn't plan to have Sayid make it off the island alive. If he was never to be reunited with Nadia, then it could not be harmful to his character to have known a consummated love on the island at least. That leaves the soldier, but as a communication officer he had little to do with actual war-management or fighting tactics. They invested heavily on the communication officer part of him for the most part until now (Solitary) in S1, but in that he became handicapped as well after having to delay the tower and the Looking Glass for such a long time.

Considering all this, I think they have tried to do their best with what was left, getting him on as much missions as they could, especially investigation missions. And I see indications that they're now trying the actual war-soldier angle at the end of S3.

This brings me back to him mentioning Nadia is dead in this epi. He says, "She's dead, because of me." I know we see her alive and well in a Locke FB. I think with all the above there is an indication they had planned Nadia to be dead for real in the story, and that he had actually did cause her dead much later in his backstory, and that it was this he had to confess to Smokey, but would eventually end up defending, get killed by Smokey, and then having both Sayid and Nadia (dead) walk off together in the hereafter (Nadia wrote on teh back of the picture: "You'll find me in the next life if not in this one"). This idea is also reinforced with Sayid hearing the whisperers, which we can associate with Smokey. Sayid has never encountered them again afterwards.

Hmmm, I conclude that Sayid was not meant to survive for all that long, would have been the one killed by Smokey in a similar confession situation as Eko and woudl have found Nadia in the next life. Sayid was too narrowly written imo to develop him much. And if he stayed this long then it is due to Naveen's acting and his populairty with the viewers. They must have altered their plans about Sayid's death and tried to write him in wherever they could, but as he was not part of the plan for getting off the island they've been stuck over him ever since with what they had as basic story material, meanwhile not only cornered with his narrow beginnings, but also handicapped over what had already happened to him on-island (torture, Shannon).

THE GOLF COURSE AND HURLEY:
I totally agree with Hurley having the role over the leadership of social workings. We get to see it in the pilot when he's ditrsibuting food, and now with the gulf course. And it's one of the most hilarious sidestories on-island. And I could have smacked Michael almost when he treated Walt as he did. He looked to be such a devoted father in his fb later on when Walt's still a baby, but it's unnerving how annoyed he acts to the kid, and yet he can't but shout Waaaaaaaaaaaaalt all over the place. We never did find out who lost the bet, did we?
Noticed too how Jack is still in the mind of referring to the originator of the idea... When Kate assumes Jack invented the gofl course he immediately passes the credit to Hugo. He's giving him quite the praise, admits he worries about making everybody feel safe but cannot, and Hugo does it just like that.
And I really liked Sawyer making that social effort as Kate had advized him too.

JACK and SAYID and TORTURE:
It's quite amazing how either two react so differently to what they did in the previous episode. Sayid takes all the blame and removes himself from the Losties, not being able to think he's even worth it to live with them. Meanwhile Jack can't even stand Sawyer pointing out his responsibility in it and shoves it aside as if Kate and Sawyer are crying foul over nothing. It's as if he thinks: what's done is done, Sawyer only got knicked at the arm which I'm treating already, we found a solution for Shannon, and that's that, get over it. I could understand Jack being stubborn and not eager to apologize for his part towards Sawyer when Sawyer's rubbing the salt across the wound, but that he even negates this responsibility to Kate shows how much he negates it. It's quite a contrast how Sayid questions his membership card of the Losties while Jack doesn't even think twice about his doctor practice and his leader role after having done this. I do note though that Jack is never forced to question this, since aside from Sawyer rubbing it in and Kate frowing over it, nobody seems to give a **** about it. Or didn't they know about it? I doubt that. I'm sure Sawyer told people enough about it whenever he had the chance. But none of them say anything about it, or frown upon Jack over it. It's as if they all agreed to the tactics under the circumstances, even if they do try to be better to Sawyer once he himself gives it an effort.

[ZIA]

LOST Hiatus Rewatch: Week 3, Weds., June 10th-17th
2009
S1E9: Solitary
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u34/zia29112/LOST%20Stuff/300px-Lost-season1.jpg

[Dew]

Ahhh the appearance of Danielle and Nadia. It was ironic that Sayid was going thru some electric torture by Danielle. The torturer being tortured himself. They both got to each other. She was starved for human companionship. He was feeling remorse for what he did to Sawyer. Jack is still a jackass. Locke is creeping me out.

[turiel]

I could have sworn that golf course wasn't till S3 ... time flies I guess!

[Annie]

Sayid is such a sad character. He carries the burden of his
war-time inhumane behavior. He lost his love. Yet he still is there for the Losties. At times he has the most rational
thoughts on a problem. He uses his skills as a soldier to
think things through and carryout their plans. I believe he is respected by all.

TPTB have Sayid tortured the episode following
him torturing Sawyer. I wonder if that was meant as punishment or to offer him redemption (he was repentant).

The golf scenes offered the perfect comic relief. Hurley
has such a big heart and is so in touch with the needs of
the Losties. I noticed Jack acknowledged he was running
around trying to make everyone feel safe and Hurley
accomplished it with a golf game. In the last episode he
acknowledged to Sun his mistake in overlooking the aloe.
As the show progresses, I think he loses those humble
qualities.

I didn't enjoy this episode as much as the last, but it moved
the story along. At the time, we didn't whether to believe
Danielle. Now we know her story about the so-called sickness was true.

[ozanna]

Sayid is such a sad character.
I know, Annie - and in some ways he is very similar to Sawyer ! They are both loners, neither appear to have any family, or friends. Both have had tragedies in their lives. Both are bitter, but have goodness in their hearts, if anyone cares to search. But Sayid is willing to help out in the community. Sawyer - not so much.

And Hurley really does the trick with the golf tournament ! All work and no play makes Jack a really dull boy ! Kate's attempt to socialize Sawyer was a hoot ! But it did work, and I have always thought that this was the first time that he realized he could actually get along with some of these guys. Jack and Boone were happy to welcome him into the group. I think Sawyer was kind of moved by it, that they would still give him a chance.

[Dew]

What is interesting that in the beginning Sayid was helpful to the camp and Sawyer wasn't. However, in time Sawyer was helpful to the time skippers in Dharmaville, hence useful. Sayid, OTOH, is not helpful to the situation and shoots little Ben. Seems they switch roles. Interesting I thought.

[World Walker]

Beautiful opening shot of Sayid lounging on the beach.

Ah, and there's the Looking Glass cable before we even knew what the heck it was!

Poor Sayid; this is like the second time in the matter of a week he's been whapped in the head.

Hahahaha at the hypochondriac redshirt. You know, I really miss those funny buggers sometimes.

I love how disconcerting they made Danielle's introductory scene. The questioning and mild electrocution was almost as disorienting for us as it was for Sayid.

Sayid wants that man to confess in his flashback. What else do we know that's on the island that judges people? That said; don't read into this too much, because I just thought it was a neat parallel.

OMG, Ethan! I almost jumped out of my seat in fright. Hard to believe there was a time when we just dismissed him as another redshirt. Wow, still creepy after all this time! :nanabobo:

Danielle sure didn't age well in the sixteen years she was on the island. That, however, is pretty understandable.

Remember how I said Sayid's been whapped on the head two times earlier? Well, better make it three. Thanks, Danielle!

Cool symmetry between both Sayid and Danielle being surprised they know the opposite's name.

Sayid's claim of Nadia being dead is puzzling. On one hand, with all the craziness we've seen on this show lately, one could surmise that this could be an alternate timeline in which she had been killed earlier than the timeline where we saw her and Sayid married. Or it could be that Sayid misspoke purely on his own emotional torment. If he believed he would never see her again, perhaps that would make her dead to him.

The golf course provides good comic relief.


Danielle: "We ran aground, the hull breached beyond repair. So, we made camp, dug out this temporary shelter. Nearly two months we survived here. We were coming back from the Black Rock. It was them. They were the carriers. The Others."

Sayid: "Have you seen other people on this island?"

Danielle: "No, but I hear them out there in the jungle. They whisper."


Okay, so most of Danielle's story checks out from what we saw in Season 5. There are a few things that still don't mesh up in my mind.

First, it seems their ship hit rocks, yet when we see the French team in Season 5, they're on a raft, so perhaps the rocks were further out than the island, and they abandoned ship. All in all, this isn't such a big deal.

Apparently, the French team dug out the shelter Danielle had been living in obviously after Jin's first encounter with the team, but their stuff is still shown on the beach where they arrived when Danielle killed her team in Jin’s second/last encounter. This was presumably two months after the arrival. Was the shelter already dug out and all the stuff not quite moved down there yet?

Danielle claims she saw nobody else on the island, but we know she very clearly saw Ben when he came for Alex. And who is she referring to when she says they were the carriers? Her own team or the Others? If it is the Others, that would hold interesting implications toward what exactly happens to people when they drink the island kool-aid, so to speak. Notice the behavior of Robert in Season 5 before Danielle kills him. The look on his face as he attempts to murder Danielle is chilling and we've all seen it before. It was the same menacingly fanatical look on Ethan's face when he kidnapped Claire and beat the crap out of Jack. For lack of a better way to describe it, these fanatical expressions were very Others-like. Maybe in order to become an Other, a person has to go through a mind alteration in or around the temple. Maybe this is why the temple is not for the losties as Ben claims in Season 4. Maybe that strange video in Hydra Station’s Room 23 was an early indication that we would indeed see mind alteration as a large part of the plot down the road. Anyway, it’s worth thinking about.

Whew, that was long-winded...

Charlie trying to help Hurley golf was great. "Dude, get away from me." :rotfl:

"You'll find me in the next life, if not this one." Hmmm, a clue of alternate timelines, perhaps? Sounds very similar to "See ya in another life, brotha!" doesn't it?

"Your people, the ones you're so determined to get back to; watch them, watch them closely." So, Danielle's afraid they'll contract the sickness, as well. In light of what we saw in Season 5, would it be fair to say that any of our Losties have been altered in any way by Smokie as was implied with the french team? If so, then John Locke certainly seems to be an obvious candidate, considering his squirrelly behavior throughout his time on the island.

Ah, it's Ethan again, right next to Kate in the golfing scene. And he's still creepy!

And it's our first scene of the whispers! They always seem to be connected in some way with the Others. Were they watching Sayid in that moment? Were they passing through the area? God, we need way more information and I hope they deliver in the final season. If there's one thing I want to know, it's about the whispers.

Goodnight! :Cheers:

[turiel]

Sayid's claim of Nadia being dead is puzzling. On one hand, with all the craziness we've seen on this show lately, one could surmise that this could be an alternate timeline in which she had been killed earlier than the timeline where we saw her and Sayid married. Or it could be that Sayid misspoke purely on his own emotional torment. If he believed he would never see her again, perhaps that would make her dead to him.


Yes its certainly strange given that only a few episodes later we see that he was on his way from Australia to her in LA. Actually, why did Nadia have to find him after he came back with the Oceanix 6? Surely she would have been in the same place she was before, as it was only a few months since the crash. Back on point, maybe Sayid was trying to empthasise with her and manipulate her psychologically - as a 'communications officer', its something he would be well used to.


"You'll find me in the next life, if not this one." Hmmm, a clue of alternate timelines, perhaps? Sounds very similar to "See ya in another life, brotha!" doesn't it?


Maybe. But throughout Season 1 and partly in Season 2, there were many hints dropped that would lead the viewer to believe that they were in purgatory, and indeed that was the most popular theory going round at the time. Obviously it has been since disproved, but I think this was one of the red herrings rather than an alternate timeline hint.

[Dew]

What I loved most about the golf course was Hurley's hip wiggling and Charlie's dancing to break Jack's concentration. I miss Charlie and Hurley together.

[AChristianShephard]

Ohh what an episode, one that really gets things moving plot wise, with the first introduction, of not one, but unbeknownst to us, 2 outsiders.

Ethan was handled so smoothly, funny how he made initial contact through Locke, who you'd have thought would be prime candidate for smelling a rat after Sayid was otherwise engaged.
Remember how Sayid knew Mike was double-crossing?

Sayid also gets the début whispers in what at the time must of been a really spooky ending, especially after the music themes we've had.

Danielle's back story was so well thought through, genius.

Loved this episode, it was a change in direction to finally have something more tangible going on rather than Polar bears.

10/10