View Full Version : Hiatus Rewatch#3 (06/26/09-06/30/09) S1E13: Hearts And Minds
This is the discussion thread for the LOST-TV Hiatus Rewatch - Season 1 Episode 13 , "Hearts And Minds"
Written by : Javier Grillo-Marxuach & Carlton Cuse
The original (or as close to original as exists) thread for this episode can be found here (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6149).
General questions about the LOST-TV Hiatus Rewatch can be posted in the LOST-TV Hiatus Rewatch thread (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37370).
Episode Description:
When Boone becomes frustrated with Locke's quest to get inside the hatch, Locke ties him up and drugs him.
Darkrogue
07-21-07, 12:17 PM
This episode made me, er, uncomfortable. Especially when we first see them kiss. I realize this was the reaction they were going for, so they succeeded there. :D
I liked it, even so. This episode worked in much the same way for Shannon and Boone as the initial Sun and Jin episodes worked for that couple. Hearts and Minds lends us some sympathy for Boone (“like it’s all up to you”), whereas HoTRS gave us sympathy for Sun. It is not until further episodes centering upon Shannon and Jin that we are able to see their “side of the story”.
Observations:
Oh, good. It’s always nice to give the fat guy gastro-digestive issues. Ugh. Though I must admit the subsequent fishing scenes were a riot, all the way up to the sea urchin fiasco. “Pee on it!” :lol: Poor Jin.
Are we to believe that Shannon’s man in Sydney (Brian) was actually physically abusing her, or that he was staging the whole thing along with her? She shows Boone a bruise on her head, and we know this was part of a con to acquire money from Boone, but how much of the actual strife in their relationship was a ruse?
At any rate, Brian doles out an old-fashioned Boone beating. :D
Locke, about Sayid: “We’re gonna want him on our side.”
Still not exactly sure what was meant by this. TPTB have always hinted at an upcoming, major split between the Losties, but anything truly cataclysmic has yet to come of it. Hell, there were even spoilers/foilers and hints of such a thing happening in the finale of season 3 (I think even Darlton hinted at this themselves, something about different factions following either Sawyer or Jack or Locke and Jack).
Sun’s garden—and Kate becomes the second to know Sun’s secret.
I loved how strong the female characters were written in S1, and I enjoyed their confiding in one another (such as their collaborative but failed attempt to poison Jin). There was something very Trifles about it, somehow (anyone read that play?).
Loved Locke’s trippy hallucinogenic island-concoction. Locke “helps” Boone in this episode, much like he has helped Jack and Charlie. He wants to help Boone “get over” his emotionally abusive (step)sister. Once more, this solidified my affinity for Locke. (I’m very interested to see what happens to these rewatch discussions once we get into S2 ;))
Another visible “connection” between the losties (Sawyer in the police station).
More evidence that TPTB still weren’t certain what “form” they wanted their monster/stobor/Lostzilla thing to take. Whatever attacks Shannon here seems to have some very sharp teeth or claws. Like the pilot, she is mangled and bloody--not something a cloud of smoke would do, really.
Irony: Very good juxtaposition of the Kate/Sun scene with Hurley/Jin. Immediately after the scene in which Kate questions why Sun would keep her knowledge of English from her husband, we get Hurley prompting Jin with the following line: “You sure you don’t speak English? ‘Cause there’s a rumor you do.”
Subtle verification that Charlie is still suffering withdrawal symptoms. This solidifies my take on it—that much of it is assumed to happen off-camera. I’m assuming the pills Jack is doling out to Charlie is the Diazepam Charlie discovered in The Moth (definitely not “aspirin” ;)).
Charlie’s assessment of Locke (as the guy who “went postal” on his coworkers) still makes me laugh. But Jack seems uneasy about Charlie’s further summation of Locke as the “one person on this island (he’d) put (his) absolute faith in to save (them) all”. Jack already seems to harbor some distrust for Locke.
Jin bringing Hurley the fish = awww.
Boone felt “relieved” when Shannon died in his havid/magical mystery paste trip. Very telling. It’s as though he’d rather have her dead than be forced to willingly let her go. Just the same, he wants to move on and distance himself. I would have liked to see more of their relationship/childhood, just to see how they got where they are at this point in their lives.
It’s a shame we’ve lost both Boone and Shannon now. (Shannon’s death was like the first red flag to me that something was going wrong in the show, actually. Of all people, I would have assumed she was the safest person on the island by all logic)
Locke_and_Load
07-21-07, 09:38 PM
More evidence that TPTB still weren’t certain what “form” they wanted their monster/stobor/Lostzilla thing to take. Whatever attacks Shannon here seems to have some very sharp teeth or claws. Like the pilot, she is mangled and bloody--not something a cloud of smoke would do, really.
Yeah I agree with you about the form of the monster. Clips in the first half of season one dont really relate to smokie (i.e Howling).
Shannon's body was all mangled and cut. It looked like it was done with teeth or claws like you said, but there is a slight chance TPTB might have done that on purpose. Techincally it was all in Boone's mind and since he had never actually seen the monster, he probably thought it was something with claws or sharp teeth. I for one wouldn't have guessed it was black smoke at the time.
Overall though I think they just weren't sure what to make it look like too.
Darkrogue, Haven't watched this one yet but wondering why you said Shannon would have been the safest? From the standpoint of Smokie (she hasn't done as many "bad" things) or b/c she doesn't help out much (ie go into the jungle). Or something else I'm not thinking of?
Darkrogue
07-21-07, 11:00 PM
Yeah I agree with you about the form of the monster. Clips in the first half of season one dont really relate to smokie (i.e Howling).
Shannon's body was all mangled and cut. It looked like it was done with teeth or claws like you said, but there is a slight chance TPTB might have done that on purpose. Techincally it was all in Boone's mind and since he had never actually seen the monster, he probably thought it was something with claws or sharp teeth. I for one wouldn't have guessed it was black smoke at the time.
Overall though I think they just weren't sure what to make it look like too.
Yes. If it were just Shannon, I would chalk it up to it being Boone's hallucination. The pilot had similar wounds as Shannon after Jack, Kate and Charlie found him. And who would have guessed black smoke?! :D
Darkrogue, Haven't watched this one yet but wondering why you said Shannon would have been the safest? From the standpoint of Smokie (she hasn't done as many "bad" things) or b/c she doesn't help out much (ie go into the jungle). Or something else I'm not thinking of?
More from a writing/storytelling point of view than anything. It seemed a given that, since they got rid of Boone, they would keep his "other half" around for the purpose of story continuity. It was a waste to kill off both of the pair, severing all ties to the family and the flashbacks. Not only that, killing her was redundant, seeing as how they had a "fake-out" death with her already (they repeated this with Charlie).
So, my assumption was mostly from a narrative viewpoint.
Besides, their argument that the island eliminates characters who are not redeemable doesn't hold much water either, all things considered.
:Cheers: :Cheers: :Cheers: :Cheers: :Cheers: I hadn't seen this for a while and having rediscovered it, rediscovered a few things I missed out on before.
One of the themes running through the entire episode was hunting and gathering. Jin and Hurley and their fishing escapades. Kate and her fruit gathering. Sun and her garden. Even Jack gathering fruit seeds to give to Sun for her garden. However what has happened to the boar and why is there no meat, and where are Locke and Boone going every day.
Another theme was Boone and his growing discomfort over Shannon and Sayid. Sayid gives Shannon a pair of brand new shoes in a box he found in the wreckage as a thank you for helping with the French translation. Boone is rather creepily lurking around in the undergrowth watching them. Later Boone confronts Sayid and warns him to keep away from his sister. Locke, in turn warns Boone not to get on the wrong side of Sayid.
Boone's first flashback has him playing tennis with a pretty girl at a snooty country club. He gets an urgent phone call from Shannon in Sydney, very upset. This turns out to be quite a common occurrence.
Back on the island Locke and Boone are walking in the jungle and Locke says that what he has discovered is a lot more important than shooting boar, and they arrive at the hatch.
From the rest of Boone's flashbacks we discover that Shannon and Boone are not actually blood relatives (thank God for that !) It turns out that Boone's mother married Shannon's father when they were in their early teens. Boone's mother is the one with the money and she does not like Shannon, who in turn tries to get what she can out of Boone. Shannon and her boyfriend, Brian, con $50,000 out of Boone and Brian in turn runs off with the money. Shannon and Boone then sleep together, supposedly, before returning to the U.S. What a tangled web ...
Locke appears to understand what is going on with Boone and Shannon and on their trek hits Boone over the head (he appears to be making a habit of this, first Sayid and now Boone) and then smears a lot of gunk on Boone's head, causing him to have a hallucination. This leads Boone to believe that Shannon is dead, killed by the monster. When he eventually regains his senses and discovers that it was all a dream, he confesses that when he thought she was dead he felt relief. Locke in some way, appears to understand how he feels, and has hopefully helped Boone to see his 'ship with Shannon in a healthier light, and release Boone from his enslavement of his step-sister.
On a lighter note, in Boone's fb when he was in the Sydney Police Station trying to report Bryan for beating Shannon, he comments on the fact that his sister has always been attracted to the wrong type of guy. Ironically just at that moment a dishevelled looking Sawyer is dragged in, abusive and hand-cuffed ! I often wondered if this was a hint for the future - Sawyer and Shannon as a couple could have been ......... intriguing ?
Shannon was once married.
Kate discovers that Sun speaks English. Hurley wonders if Jin does - "your wifes' hot !"
Jack asks Charlie his opinion of Locke - Charlie says he would trust Locke more than anyone else on the island. Is this a forerunner to the hinted at
leadership division, Darkrogue ? I still reckon Sayid/Sawyer against Jack would be fantastic ! Can't see Locke taking on a leadership role, he is too independent, and , dare I say it, weird !
Come to think of it this was an informative episode and shed quite a bit of light on a few topics, Sun and Jin, Charlie, Hurley and his digestive system (OhKaaaaaaay !) Sayid giving a few hints of his intelligence and possible leadership qualities, Jack not quite sure what to make of him, even Sawyer in his paltry 10 seconds providing a strange sort of link with Boone - "Yo Croc Hunter ...!" There you go, an oblique tribute to Steve Irwin, our own crazy, lovable croc hunter.
Well, there's not much to add to that analysis. The only thing I thought I'd
mention is I thought it was significant that Boone was dating a very
Shannon-looking girl.
More from a writing/storytelling point of view than anything. It seemed a given that, since they got rid of Boone, they would keep his "other half" around for the purpose of story continuity. It was a waste to kill off both of the pair, severing all ties to the family and the flashbacks. Not only that, killing her was redundant, seeing as how they had a "fake-out" death with her already (they repeated this with Charlie).
So, my assumption was mostly from a narrative viewpoint.
That makes sense when you think about it that way. I found myself disliking Shannon again and feeling sorry for Boone. Poor guy, it may be sick but they aren't blood relatives and what can he do, he can't really choose who he loves. She on the other hand just continues to use & abuse him. It was clear he hated himself after their, I don't even know what to call it, in the hotel. She looks like it doesn't matter a bit to her.
Well, there's not much to add to that analysis. The only thing I thought I'd
mention is I thought it was significant that Boone was dating a very
Shannon-looking girl.
I noticed this too - thought it was Shannon at first!
Hodgepodge
07-23-07, 06:49 PM
I remember bringing up the first time Hearts and Minds aired the idea of Locke knowing about Boone's and Shannon's predicament from a HAVID.
Locke is mixing his guacamole sauce, and Boone asks what is it. "It's far later." This has always given me the idea he knew he was going to bop Boone over the head and administer his concoction. He even makes sure Boone understands what's going to happen if he persists in wanting to tell Shannon.
BOONE: ...Look, she can keep a secret.
LOCKE: You're sure?
BOONE: Yes, I'm sure.
LOCKE: No, I mean, are you sure you want to do this?
BOONE: I've got to get her off my back. She keeps asking me about this, she keeps asking me about you, about the whole thing.
LOCKE: You're sure you've thought through the ramifications?
BOONE: Yes.
LOCKE: So be it.
[Boone turns around, Locke clocks him with a knife handle.]
"He's very competent. We don't want to make an enemy of him. We're going to want him on our side." I've also been curious about the meaning of this dialog given by Locke. Was he planning a coup d'état, taking over leadership from Jack?
Oh, and this one opens with an eye too - Boone's
He's very competent. We don't want to make an enemy of him. We're going to want him on our side." I've also been curious about the meaning of this dialog given by Locke. Was he planning a coup d'état, taking over leadership from Jack?
__________________
I could not quite make up my mind about this Hodge. I always got the impression that Locke had his own agenda, and didn't much want to take on the responsibility of looking out for everyone else. But OTOH he certainly does not see eye to eye with Jack, and if someone else did take up a challenge with Jack then Locke would be on their side. But as we now know Locke is far more interested in the mythology of the island ..... actually I'm not really sure what he's interested in any more ! Roll on Season 4 !
Hodgepodge
07-24-07, 06:34 PM
__________________
I could not quite make up my mind about this Hodge. I always got the impression that Locke had his own agenda, and didn't much want to take on the responsibility of looking out for everyone else. But OTOH he certainly does not see eye to eye with Jack, and if someone else did take up a challenge with Jack then Locke would be on their side. But as we now know Locke is far more interested in the mythology of the island ..... actually I'm not really sure what he's interested in any more ! Roll on Season 4 !I think you're right Ozanna. He wants to understand how he woke up on the island with the use of his legs. We also have to remember it was the White Rabbit episode he looked into the eye of the island. And, it may've been right after this he started receiving these on island HAVIDs.
But you're right, when ever it occurred, Locke was working with a program different from Jack's, and he didn't have time to take care of 50+ survivors.
abcdxyz
07-25-07, 12:42 AM
GOD, I hate Boone and Shannon! I'm so glad they got killed off--it wasn't soon enough!
Hodgepodge
07-26-07, 12:07 AM
GOD, I hate Boone and Shannon! I'm so glad they got killed off--it wasn't soon enough!Abcdxyz, that's an awful thing to say! :no-no:
I don't really have anything new to add exactly, but I really liked Hearts and Minds as far as a character driven episode.There was some weird dialogue between people and we are made to further trust that Locke is the savior of the Losties several times even though Jack is already having doubts about Locke or is it just a rivalry issue on Jack's part?
Charlie's stating that he has "absolute faith" in Locke's abilities to "save us all" to Jack's question "Do you trust him?"
Secondly, it seems that Locke has some grasp of what's going on on the Island at this point.
He gave his compass away because he didn't need it anymore and when Boone states "I don't think I get it." to which Locke replied "That's the problem."
I still jump every time Smokey crashes down suddenly and yes, that was a very violent attack, just like the pilot.
I love the scene with Jin and Hurley and also the scenes between Sun and Kate. "Have you never lied to a man you've loved?" Very telling. Uh...yes she has.
The Shannon and Boone kissing made me cringe too! Ew!
"You're wife's hot!" Classic! :)
Darkrogue
07-26-07, 01:06 PM
That makes sense when you think about it that way. I found myself disliking Shannon again and feeling sorry for Boone. Poor guy, it may be sick but they aren't blood relatives and what can he do, he can't really choose who he loves. She on the other hand just continues to use & abuse him. It was clear he hated himself after their, I don't even know what to call it, in the hotel. She looks like it doesn't matter a bit to her.
To be perfectly honest, I did not like Shannon (I was more sympathetic to Boone—she was carelessly using him and passing off his emotions). At the same time, I thought it wasteful and flawed from a writing standpoint to get rid of her, since that effectively killed the entire storyline for that pair.
I remember bringing up the first time Hearts and Minds aired the idea of Locke knowing about Boone's and Shannon's predicament from a HAVID.
Locke is mixing his guacamole sauce, and Boone asks what is it. "It's far later." This has always given me the idea he knew he was going to bop Boone over the head and administer his concoction. He even makes sure Boone understands what's going to happen if he persists in wanting to tell Shannon.
I think you're right Ozanna. He wants to understand how he woke up on the island with the use of his legs. We also have to remember it was the White Rabbit episode he looked into the eye of the island. And, it may've been right after this he started receiving these on island HAVIDs.
But you're right, when ever it occurred, Locke was working with a program different from Jack's, and he didn't have time to take care of 50+ survivors.
Oh I definitely think he knew about what was going on with Boone and Shannon somehow, whether through havid or otherwise. The line “it’s for later” always stood out to me as an indication that he knows exactly what he’s going to do with the wacky paste long before he actually does it.
It makes me wonder if Locke knew everything he knows about these people through some sort of vision/dream/whatever. This is all happening after he has apparently looked into the “eye of the island”, as you pointed out. He seems to know a disturbing amount of information about all of his fellow castaways. Honestly, I never would have thought him to be a fan of a band like DriveShaft, after all. ;)
Perhaps when he ‘looked into the island’s eye’ he was somehow “fed” knowledge of the survivors so that he could point them in the direction of their intended “paths”, before moving on to his own “purpose”, whatever that is. Who knows, really? I somehow think if we tried to take that entire notion apart, bit by bit, our heads would explode.
jane_eire
07-26-07, 02:12 PM
whispers
Hodgepodge
07-26-07, 11:16 PM
...It makes me wonder if Locke knew everything he knows about these people through some sort of vision/dream/whatever. This is all happening after he has apparently looked into the “eye of the island”, as you pointed out. He seems to know a disturbing amount of information about all of his fellow castaways. Honestly, I never would have thought him to be a fan of a band like DriveShaft, after all. ;)
Perhaps when he ‘looked into the island’s eye’ he was somehow “fed” knowledge of the survivors so that he could point them in the direction of their intended “paths”, before moving on to his own “purpose”, whatever that is. Who knows, really? I somehow think if we tried to take that entire notion apart, bit by bit, our heads would explode.Well, we came to realize through the episode, ?, that "Smokie" is able to transfer scans/past memories from one individual to another. Remember, Locke was fed info about Yemi who he'd never met. So, Darkrogue your theory could be true.
Several members of Lost-TV have speculated Locke was just very intuitive. He listened and watched, and this maybe true. But, like you, I've always thought he knew some very imtimate details about the other survivors. Details that gave him an advantage when trying to manipulate their paths.
ozchick
07-27-07, 01:04 AM
I have to say (no tomato throwing please) that I do not miss Shannon or Boone in the slightest.
This episode is the first time (I believe) we hear about any sort of magnetic anomaly, when Sayid tells Jack about the compass.
The Hurley and Jin scenes are a riot, culminating with a big old Awww with the fish.
Jack still has a sense of humor, when it comes to Kate anyway: "Please tell me you found a coffee bar" when she's bringing him to the garden.
There's a nice bit of foreshadowing to "Special" when we see Michael find the wooden box.
Sawyer nickname:
Croc hunter: to a cop in Boone's FB, his only appearance in this ep.
I feel when Locke landed on the island it some how transformed him into someone else. Not only did he have use of his legs but his whole demeanor changed. as we have seen in FB’s he was previously fickle in his life. He always seem uncertain and skittish in things he did or with interactions he had with others. He was “born” on the island just like Ben was, a changed person and new meaning. I think his knowledge of hunting, tracking, knife slinging, concoction making skills actually came from the island its self. That was not Locke’s suitcase with all the knives his found it and claimed it as his. From any of Locke’s FB’s I just don’t think he was capable of doing any of the things he’s doing now on the island. But this is probably all a bunch of BS anyway, its way to early for me to be analyzing. lol
Hodgepodge
07-27-07, 05:03 PM
I feel when Locke landed on the island it some how transformed him into someone else. Not only did he have use of his legs but his whole demeanor changed. as we have seen in FB’s he was previously fickle in his life. He always seem uncertain and skittish in things he did or with interactions he had with others. He was “born” on the island just like Ben was, a changed person and new meaning. I think his knowledge of hunting, tracking, knife slinging, concoction making skills actually came from the island its self. That was not Locke’s suitcase with all the knives his found it and claimed it as his. From any of Locke’s FB’s I just don’t think he was capable of doing any of the things he’s doing now on the island. But this is probably all a bunch of BS anyway, its way to early for me to be analyzing. lolDes02, believe me you aren't/weren't the only one who feels/felt like this. I wish I could pull a few of my posts from the beginning of the series. I also felt Locke was possessed when he woke up on the island. Sort of like the movie, The Invasion of the Body Snatchers (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0077745/). Some entity took over his body to observe the other survivors.
Although, there's been speculation Locke was an avid user of the 'Net. He was an insatiable reader and everything he's done on the island (hunting boar, making his truth serum, building cradles, etc...), he's learned from books and the internet.
11Rooster11
07-27-07, 09:19 PM
The talk in here about smokie battering Shannon in Boone's havid got me thinking. So Boone sees Shannon in his vision; they are fleeing smokie; smokie gets a hold of her and batters her to death (presumably). The entire situation took place in Boone's mind. The conversation Boone carried on with Shannon was all in his mind. The vivid experience led him to attack John and blame him for a death that didn't take place. But some things did happen, Boone freed himself of the ropes and found his way back to camp.
Thinking about this and comparing it to Jack, Kate, and Charlie's voyage to the cockpit reveals many similarities. So was the smokie attack, pilot and the story he told a shared Havid? It seems possible that the things that they saw and heard didn't really take place, but ultimately they did make the trip and recover the heroin and transponder. If the pilot was a hallucination then the story he told could be entirely false and designed to deceive the Losties and the viewers.
The big stumbling block seems to be the fact that the vision was shared.
Any thoughts?
jane_eire
07-28-07, 02:42 PM
whispers
Perhaps when he ‘looked into the island’s eye’ he was somehow “fed” knowledge of the survivors so that he could point them in the direction of their intended “paths”, before moving on to his own “purpose”, whatever that is. Who knows, really? I somehow think if we tried to take that entire notion apart, bit by bit, our heads would explode.
I agree with this point. Now, it really does seem as if Locke had prior knowledge of the other passsengers challenges. Maybe Locke's path is to show the other survivors their paths.
I also agree that our heads could easily explode if we tried to figure everything out. :)
sweetsunray
10-24-07, 08:16 PM
Locke: He's very competent. We don't want to make an enemy of him. We're going to want him on our side.
Ironic really, knowing that Sayid will want nothing to do with it once he learns about it.
Plenty of fruit and fish to go around. What we're doing here is far more important. [They stop and uncover the hatch.] Right now, this is our priority. Yeah, Locke decides that the hatch is their priority, but apparently at least Hurley is starting to have problems with his digestive system. And I don't think that's even all that correct... form what I gather from the Survivor experiences, getting fish is not that easy really, certainly not with that many people. Of course Locke should not remain the sole hunter, but he could have trained other willing people for it. At least the Dharma food drops solved later problems with the hunting once Locke was tied to his hatch. Locke doesn't have his priorities all that straight imo. First time I watched it I was as curious to what was inside it, but now it only feeds on disappointment with regards Locke for me. His alliance is with the island, not the Losties. Perhaps the Losties ought to ally themselves with the island. Could be. Perhaps not. But my viewer alliance is with the Losties, and I guess that's why Locke became a disoppointment to me.
LOCKE: They're not ready. They won't understand it.
And who is he to decide what they can understand or not? It all depends on approach and angle of explanation. Of course, if you're thinking of saying the island led you to it and that it's more important than surviving on the island, then they won't understand it. But there's always the angle of saying "Look here what we found! Obviously built by people, business or society. Maybe the people who caught Claire. We need to know more about this. May help us find Claire."
Interesting, or weird that despite Jack's suspicion of Locke two epis back is gone here at the start. He initially supposes they're running out of boar rather than Locke not hunting for them anymore. It shows he identifies so much with the idea of helping the group he can't imagine Locke not having the same focus.
What I found strange too is how Kate and Jack seem to be back on sergeant mode once more. Kate happily provides Jack with ideas for why there are no boar and takes him to see Sun's garden, as if he hadn't hurt her at all regardign the toyplane. And I wonder why Jack isn't more uncomfortable about approaching her. Seems strange for continuity purposes in behaviour. But I guess that the guave seeds he gives to Kate are his way to say sorry, perhaps.
Boone's FB: well his one-time FB told most of the Shannon Boone story in a nutshell... what a contrast to Kate's last fb, heck even her first fb. It's clear that they want to keep Kate longer than Boone, because they tell almost all of his story in this epi, or at least all we need to know about Boone, and leave us waiting for Kate's true story for a much longer time (actually, that was never really satisfied).
Locke and his whacky paste: Timothy Leary (group dynamics and relating mechanism with Leary's Rose) and dr. Alpert (the namesake) are infamous about their drug research. In the sixties they researched drugs and how they could help people (as in students) deal with their emotional and psychological blocks to gain better understanding and personality growth. After they were cucked off university for their controversial research they started communes to further their research, which were hunted down by the FBI to be shut down. Now their stance was one of controlled use of drugs for spiritual alightenment, not recreational. We later learn Locke lived in a commune that grew drugs (weed from the looks of it), that used sweat lodges and had terms such as Hunter-Farmer (reminds me of Leary's rose of leader-follower). I'd say Locke certainly became a student of Leary and Alpert's teachings, even if he never heard of them. Because that's how he uses drugs. Mind you, Leary and Alpert would probably have chucked him out of their commune because of forcing it on Boone, instead of Boone volutneering for it.
That's another thing I dislike about Locke: he decides for others without them even involving in the decision process, never explains himself (because they're not ready to understand his explanation in his mind), without ever telling them even what he decides... he just does it. Why is that? Afraid that if he would let others know his plan that they'd order him what he can or cannot do? He's a grown-up man. Of course nobody can tell him what he can or cannot do. And even if they say no, he can still decide to do what he planned anyhow. But at least he'd give people a chance, especially when it pertains to decisions that directly involve consequences for other people and not him. Ugh, that alone can make me raving mad about him. That is what I call arrogance and paternalistic. I don't really much care whether the whacky paste helped Boone or not, but he definitely had no right to bump him on the head, tie him up and force him on a drug trip.
More, once he did that to Boone and transferred Boone's puppiness from Shannon to him, he took on full responsibility over Boone's actions. He portrayed himself as a guru to Boone, gave him a trip that would ensure Boone would follow Locke wherever Locke wanted, while Boone himself doesn't even have the guidance of Locke's dreams. (Hodge are you taking note for your trial) By disregarding Boone's free will and bind him to his will in a deep psycohological way, he became responsible of Boone as if Boone was a child. And sadly enough, Locke's not good at parenting really.
Boone's hallucination: Boone's hallucination shows he sees Shannon as helpless and can go to great lengths to save her from whatever he perceives her to be in danger. Shannon evidently played him on this, but we learn later that when she really needed his help to help her to get on her own two feet he wasn't there for her. Her true monster never had been men, but Boone's own mother. Ironic that she was shot by a woman, perhaps? Anyway, it's the damsel in distress he needs to let go off, both for his own as well as Shannon's sake. Oh, and I suspect that hallucination was not just Boone's mind, but that at least somethign listened into his thoughts, and used the Shannon imagery for it to find out what Locke and Boone were doing out there. And once it knows it could be also interpreted as making sure Boone won't tell anybody else either, because Shannon's smashed against trees and such (and that's where the wounds come from imo). It's as if it signals: tell anyone and see what'll happen to that person. Not sure I like an advizer who wants to keep everything you do for it secret.
SAYID: I'm saying this compass is obviously defective.
Obviously Sayid could have checked Locke's compass to his self-made one with the needle.
LOCKE: I gave you an experience that I believe was vital to your survival on this island.
Yeah, right. Didn't survive for that long did he?
LOST Hiatus Rewatch: Week 5, Weds., June 24th-30th
2009
S1E13: Hearts and Minds
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u34/zia29112/LOST%20Stuff/300px-Lost-season1.jpg
Well Boone had a night terror for sure. He tries so hard and somehow is demeaned in every episode so far. His relationship with Shannon, step-sister. Does this mean his mom married a man who already had a daughter, Shannon? Boone gets beat up quite a bit.
btw I still don't get the night terror, hallucination or whatever name is attached to it. Locke ties up Boone and leaves him with a knife just out of reach. He finally gets the knife after he hears Shannon calling for help. She then tells Boone that Locke tied her up. They run at the sound of Smokie and Shannon is lifted up foot first. Smokie or an trap? After all the stress of this fiasco Locke tells Boone he gave him the experience? WTF???
Claire is still missing and everyone seems to gradually get out of character.
I always wondered about Locke rubbing hallucinogenic paste onto Boones head, tying him up, and leaving him in the jungle choice, so Boone could survive on the Island. Huh? Where did that come from?
Dew - Boone's mother, Sabrina, was married to Shannon's father, but when he died Sabrina cut off Shannon's trust fund which was why she became so dependent on Boone, and he was in love with her already. What a relief they weren't actually related !
We see Boone hiding in the bushes watching Sayid giving Shannon a pair of shoes. He later warns Sayid to stay away from his sister. Then, in a fb, we see Shannon calling Boone from Sydney to go and extricate her from some abusive romance, which Boone has to pay the man to leave his sister alone.
We see Kate picking fruit, with Jack watching through the bushes. She tells him she can see him but "its not like its a secret". Jack responds with "Its hard to tell with you, sometimes".
Later when Kate is talking to Sun about Sun's ability to speak English, Sun tells her Michael is the only other person on the island who knows. Jin doesn't know and Sun asks Kate if she can keep a secret.
Kate: Don't worry. I can keep a secret.
Oh dear, I bet she had her fingers crossed behind her back !
That's it for now - it's dinner time ! I'll be back :)
World Walker
06-29-09, 12:07 AM
“This isn’t a game, man,” says Hurley. Knowing what we know now, this line was a little ironic. If you don’t know what I’m talking about, Locke spoke in the pilot of two sides, one being light, the other being dark. Also, don’t forget Desmond’s speech in Season 5 about the losties being the pieces in some game. We’ve had many allusions to the game over the course of the show. These are simply a few examples.
Sayid – 1 Boone – 0
Sorry man, but you aren’t scaring Sayid one bit…:bump:
Our very first glimpse of the hatch! It is so thunderously ironic how they spent so much effort to get in when there was a front door hidden nearby in the jungle. They really needed to explore more in these early days.
Jin’s grudge against Hurley = Classic Season 1!
Our very first glimpse of Sun’s garden. Looks like we’re at it again with firsts in this episode. Let’s see if I can grab any more!
Our very first glimpse of Locke’s wacky paste! See…another one!
Does anyone else miss Season 1 Locke’s random stories? The way he pegged each story in relation to certain situations the losties were in struck me as very wise. This wise quality sadly goes away after Season 1. If I recall correctly, the wise aura pretty much dissipates after Boone falls from the cliff.
Hurley: “You just said something mean, didn’t ya?”
Jin: *Smug grin*
Let me just say, that looks like a brutal way to get tied up. A thought just occurred to me. How does Locke know that smearing the wacky paste in Boone’s head injury would change his perspective? How could he know that it would help? How does Locke even know about the wacky paste? What the heck is the wacky paste?
Sawyer passes by during Boone’s flashback. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe this is the first time we’ve had characters cross paths in a flashback to date.
Oops, Sun, now Kate knows your deep dark secret, too! Smiling gets you busted every time. It happened to Charlotte in Season 4, too.
Hurley, while grabbing at Jin’s fly: “Pee on my foot.”
Jin: “NO!” :nanabobo:
And so Boone’s hallucinations start with Shannon screaming for help. Boone finds the proper motivation and frees himself amidst Smoky sounds. As we’ve seen throughout the show, hiding in the trees either seems to deter or mask (masking I doubt, since Smokey was able to scan Juliet and Kate through the trees in Season 3) the losties from Smoky. Why it should be this way is a mystery, but it’s an interesting mystery nonetheless.
That shadow that smoky casts against the tree is very odd looking and when I took a closer look, I noticed three shifting shadows. Remember those references to Cerberus? Well, those shifting shadows could very well represent three heads. Obviously, we usually see Smokey as a big ominous cloud or a sprightly black tendril shooting through the jungle. However, during Season 3 in Left Behind, when Smokey chases Kate and Juliet, it emerges from the ground in three parts and joins to form the single gigantic black shape we all know and love. Is Smokey Cerberus? Are all of these very early/subtle hints as to his origin/purpose? Right now we don’t know. Heck, we don’t even know if the writers knew back in Season 1 what the monster looked like till the finale when they revealed the Smoke.
Jack and Locke getting along. These days won’t last much longer.
Again, I reiterate, Jin + Hurley = gold. I think this is the first episode where I truly began liking Jin. This only grew when he teamed up with Michael to build the raft.
Charlie: “If there was one person I’d put my absolute faith in to save us all, it would be John Locke.” Now, if you change the word save into rescue, Charlie’s statement would be ironic after all the sabotage Locke commits to keep people on the island. However, saving us all is another thing entirely. Have we really seen the last of John Locke, or will he live again in Season 6 to save them all?
Our very first tree bursting out of the ground!
Boone and Shannon are so dysfunctional. I can’t really say whether or not I prefer them to Nikki and Paulo. Oh, who am I kidding! We’ll take Boone and Shannon any day. At least the medusa spiders didn’t show up for them.
Sudden crazy thought. Does the wacky paste, perhaps, show an alternate reality? We know Shannon dies no matter what. What if the manner of death can change just like Charlie in Season 3. Maybe in one reality Smokey snatched Shannon and threw her body to the rocks and in the other she was shot by Ana Lucia. If you ask me (alternate reality or not) Smokey seems involved in both “deaths,” unless you consider Wet Walt from Season 2 to actually be Walt. But hey, it’s just an idea. I personally believe it was a hallucination.
Locke: “Is that what IT made you see?” Strange…although they seem to be alluding to the wacky paste, the IT made me think of Smokey. Is there double-meaning in this sentence?
Again, I still think this is one of the weirdest, hardest to explain episodes of LOST ever. :Cheers:
abcdxyz
06-29-09, 12:42 AM
When I realized that Hearts and Minds was the next rewatch episode on my list, I thought, "Oh. . . . do I have to. . . ?" I find watching Boone and Shannon so hard. Boone is so pitiable, and Shannon is such a (rhymes with) witch.
I really find many of the season 1 eps very hard to watch because they seem to reveal the characters right down to the bone, and it's so painful. I think the worst one is where Charlie pukes on the copier, but this episode is painful, too.
I really find many of the season 1 eps very hard to watch because they seem to reveal the characters right down to the bone, and it's so painful. I think the worst one is where Charlie pukes on the copier, but this episode is painful, too.
I agree completely, they're so stripped bare. It is painful to be that close to their worst moments, but also really insightful.
Boone and Shannon were so pathetic, it was tragic ! I used to wonder if they were actually supposed to be on the 'plane, thinking back to Shannon's tearful talking about how they/she talked the ticket attendant into moving their seats so they could sit together. If they had stayed where they were, they would have died. So they moved seats but they didn't survive for very long after the 'plane crash. What was their purpose ? Boone was useful to Locke with the hatch - who else could he have found dumb enough to help him out with it ?
I'm still trying to de-confuse myself about Locke and his whacky paste and hallucinations. I think it was something that he concocted himself with his new found knowledge of hunting and gathering. Remember he lived on a hippy commune for a while. I'll bet he picked up a lot of interesting stuff there !
AChristianShephard
07-13-09, 12:45 AM
Where are you - Sydney - 'Australia'
haha no <snip>.
So Boone and Locke have been going of in the jungle for 5 days, to nudge over about 2lbs of earth?
Go Team Hatch!
These stories are so unbelievable, and uninteresting, Boone & Shannon so had to go.
Crazy how Jack doesn't trust Lock even though just a few days earlier he saved his life. Charlie certainly didn't forget.
Actually that ending was pretty good, forgot Boone was drugged.
Don't understand it, but pretty cool nonetheless.
7/10
Ah! The wacky paste. Exactly why did he need it again? Boone was already a 'loyal disciple' by that time.
AChristianShephard
07-13-09, 01:52 AM
Apparently is was to help Boone 'let go' of Shannon.
Similar to the way he helped Charlie make his own decision of going dry.
Actually that reminds me of Ben, and his famous mantra.
'If you want someone to do something then make them believe it was their idea in the first place.'
But as mentioned before, where on earth did Locke get this knowledge and yoda like understanding from.
Flocke.
AChristianShephard
07-13-09, 02:21 AM
Wocke?
Locke 'n' Load
07-13-09, 02:26 AM
At least he's not an E-Wocke, because we all know ewoks suck! :D
At least he's not an E-Wocke, because we all know ewoks suck! :D
Oh. My. Lord. :rotfl::rolleyes::lmao:
AChristianShephard
07-14-09, 08:04 PM
E-Wocke! Oh lord how did I miss that gem :lol:
LostinCoffs
07-22-09, 01:53 PM
Ok - watched another 3 epis last night, hearts and minds being the first one..
One line that made my ears prick up was when Locke was standing on the beach looking out to see and Jack(?) asked him if there were any boats. Locke says no but that he was patient, or could wait a long time (something like that. I wrote it down on a bit of paper at the time and then like a good girl recycled that bit today!!) It was the way he said it too. A pause in the middle like it was an important thing to say..
It again made me think that he could have been bad locke through out some of season 1..
AChristianShephard
07-22-09, 02:23 PM
Woah, spot on, what an awesome observation :)
Wow. Did he really? I didn't catch that either. :)
Nice catch, LostinCoffs :) I always remember that really evil look on his face in Tabula Rasa at the end of the Joe Purdy "Wash Away" song.
I still want nice, good Locke, 'though !
Talking about "Wash Away", is it still raining in Coffs ?!
AChristianShephard
07-22-09, 11:29 PM
Ok - watched another 3 epis last night, hearts and minds being the first one..
One line that made my ears prick up was when Locke was standing on the beach looking out to see and Jack(?) asked him if there were any boats. Locke says no but that he was patient, or could wait a long time (something like that. I wrote it down on a bit of paper at the time and then like a good girl recycled that bit today!!) It was the way he said it too. A pause in the middle like it was an important thing to say..
It again made me think that he could have been bad locke through out some of season 1..
I think this is an important discovery, and should be posted in the general chat.
Mind you, it may of already, ive not looked in there since s5 finished.
Or we could setup an 'interesting observations' thread here in the re-watch forum?
Ya know, for us cleva folks :D
I think this is an important discovery, and should be posted in the general chat.
Mind you, it may of already, ive not looked in there since s5 finished.
Or we could setup an 'interesting observations' thread here in the re-watch forum?
Ya know, for us cleva folks :D
Great idea, Shep. :) I'm full of it :D And even if its something that doesn't mean much, well its given us something else to occupy our minds with !
AChristianShephard
07-23-09, 12:39 AM
You certainly are full of it Ozzy :cocktail:
I'll make a thread tomorrow, or is the re-watch the domain of mods?
Come Zee Zee, post and sticky an 'Interesting Observations' thread :highfive3:
Thank you, Shep ! I appreciate your honesty ..... :thankyous
AChristianShephard
07-23-09, 01:15 AM
awwww :awwhug:
Hi Dew :confused::whistling2:
:wave2: ozanna You and ACS are so cute when you banter. :)
Aw, thanks Dew - :love2:
Speaking personally, I would say about as cute as a rattlesnake !:snake:
You certainly are full of it Ozzy :cocktail:
Oh, Come on! Did you actually think I could resist quoting this post?
I have to agree with him, Oz. :D ;)
I'll make a thread tomorrow, or is the re-watch the domain of mods?
Come Zee Zee, post and sticky an 'Interesting Observations' thread :highfive3:
Make whatever threads you want, and I'll sticky them for you. I think it's tomorrow there anyway, (both of you.) That is always so weird to me.
Night, Morning...whatever. I give up. LOL! :)
LostinCoffs
07-23-09, 01:24 PM
Here's that bit I was talking about from the transcript.. Imagine a deep pause between not yet, and and weird look before i'm patient...
[Back at the beach we Locke looking out toward sea. Jack approaches.]
JACK: Any ships?
LOCKE: Not yet. But I'm patient.
JACK: Mind if I join you? It's been awhile since you and I talked, John.
Where's ACS? We already have a thread about the red flowers and 'red' in here, but let me know when/if you start any other threads that you need stuck.
:makeout: <<<You...WHOO! That just made my day!
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