View Full Version : LOST Hiatus Rewatch #3 (08/05/09-08/11/09)-S2E9 : What Kate Did
This is the discussion thread for the LOST-TV Hiatus Rewatch - Season 2 Episode 9 , "What Kate Did"
Written by : Steven Maeda & Craig Wright
The original (or as close to original as exists) thread for this episode can be found here (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11178).
General questions about the LOST-TV Hiatus Rewatch can be posted in the LOST-TV Hiatus Rewatch thread (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37370).
Episode Description:
Kate watches over Sawyer. Eko has a section of film. Michael receives a message.
If nothing else this episode finally cleared up for me who Kate's real father was ! I think !
Sun and Jin have a lovely reunion. Sayid digs Shannon's grave. Sawyer is still delirious. Jack is changing his bandages and he hears him say "I love her". Jack not happy. Kate is picking mangoes and sees a black horse.
I don't see how anyone can condone Kate's killing of her Dad, understand it maybe but there must be other ways of dealing with that sort of situation.
Her actions caused the chaos of her own life, the distress of her mother's life, chaos for the US Marshals (occupational hazzard !) deep distress for her step father. Odd that he knew that she would eventually kill Wayne at the age of 5 years old ?!!?? He correctly read that she had murder in her heart and he didn't. Odd again that he enabled her to get away, while her mother put the marshals onto her. Was this when her odyssey of running
began ? No, I don't think it was.
So Kate is caring for Sawyer, he is delirious and he tries to strangle her and yells at her "Why did you kill me ?" I'm assuming this is some sort of transference. Like Hurley talking to Jack about having to chop wood because Sawyer isn't able to do it himself. So Kate pulls Sawyer onto the floor and runs off, bumps into Charlie and tells him about her horse, bumps into Jack and tells him she's sorry shes not as perfect as him, kisses him frantically and then runs off again. She meets Sayid beside Shannon's grave and asks him if he believes in ghosts. Take a chill pill Kate. She goes back to the hatch to find Sun looking after Sawyer. She tells Sun she can go back to Jin while she talks to Sawyer. Uh oh ! She tells him no matter how she feels about him (Sawyer) how much she cares for him, she will always be aware that Wayne is in there somewhere. Sawyer wakes up, apparently in good spirits and fully healed, and says "Thats about the sweetest thing I've ever heard."
While Sawyer was away from the island Kate was able to bond with Jack, with no distractions, and be with the sort of person who she wanted to be suitable for her (Army Dad). When Sawyer came crashing back the instant attraction came rushing back and completely upset the equilibrium. Here was Sawyer, all sex and sin, and Kate couldn't resist. (Not.Saying.A.Word.) Not only that but he needed to be looked after.
When he wakes properly he asks her if they're saved. She takes him for a walk to the entrance of the hatch and they both see her black horse. He asks her "do you know that horse, Freckles ?" He was very cute at that time - a much softer, gentler Sawyer. Don't hold your breath !
Locke and Eko continue to impress. I loved their Old Testament exchange. "When you say the beginning you mean the beginning !". And Michael is obviously finding out all that he can in order to extend his search for Walt. Who could blame him.The final sequence with the "Dad" showing up on the computer screen, was spine tingling.
Sorry to double post, but my interpretation of Kate's speech to Sawyer didn't sound quite right, so here it is from Spooky's wonderful transcript.
Can you hear me ? Sawyer ? Wayne ? I'm probably crazy and this doesn't matter, but maybe you're in there somehow. You asked me a question. You asked me why I did it. It wasn't because you drove my father away, or the way you looked at me, or because you beat her. Its because I hated that you were a part of me - that I would never be good. That I would never have anything good. And every time that I look at Sawyer - every time I feel something for him - I see you Wayne. It makes me sick".
I often wonder how Sawyer actually felt after he heard that, if he really understood what she meant. I think I would have felt a bit insulted by that, or is he so desperate to get hold of her.
thanks for putting that transcript section in Ozanna, that part confused me a bit. I guess what she is saying is that Sawyer reminds her of Wayne? Or is it that she can't have a loving relationship with anyone because of who she is/who her father is? That no one should care about her? Her father basically called her a murderer and her mom turned her in, so even though she did kill someone I guess she felt her parents would protect her and be grateful? Who knows?
She was 24 when she killed Wayne - anyone know how long she was on the run for, or how old she is now? Certainly she had time to marry that guy, visit her sick mother, kill her old boyfriend, hold up a bank, and move to Australia. She was busy.
My heart jumped when Sawyer said "I love her" to Jack. Hope he wasn't "Wayne" then. The kiss between Jack and Kate was weird. He was pretty much just standing there like a dope. No chemisty IMO. Yuck.
Great ending with the computer message.
Catnap that whole scenario with Kate and Sawyer (and that creepy kiss with Jack) was bizarre. When Sawyer deliriously said "Why did you kill me" I think she thought Wayne's spirit was inhabiting Sawyer's body and that in reality no matter how much she feels for Sawyer she will never be able to love him properly because he's not a "good" person, and whenever she sees Sawyer she will see Wayne. Oh, you could go round and round in circles with these two. At least you know with Jack and Kate that there IS nothing there ! I'm not a Skater, and I'm certainly not a Jater, but I somehow can't ever see them together.
From what Tom, her childhood sweetheart said, she always ran away.
I love season two so much.
The scenes between Locke and Eko were stellar. Their interactions were so intense. I thought their relationship (for lack of a better word) was one of the more interesting on the show, to be honest.
EKO: What the secretary had found was an ancient book -- the Book of Law. You may know it as the Old Testament. And it was with that ancient book, not with the gold, that Josiah rebuilt the temple.
On the other side of the island (enter creepy music) we found a place much like this, and in this place we found a book. [Eko unwraps the book and pushes it toward Locke] I believe what's inside there will be of great value to you.
I was surprised that the above scene (when the creepy music starts up) still made me all goosebumpy after the 50th time I've seen it. LOL :D
The film in the bible was a freakout! and I was sad getting to know Mr. Eko all over again, just to have to see him die later. (No, I'll never get over it.)
This episode also has one of my favorite lines from LOST in it. The now famous line from Eko: "Don't mistake coincidence for fate." I got in many, far too many, debates over that.
Michael (of all people) is the one to know what blast-doors are? I also loved the moment when Jin finally got his handcuff off. The scenes with Kate and her 'Dad' were extremey heart-breaking....and don't forget about Sayid on the tv in the recruitment office.
Sayid was on tv at the recruitment office? I never catch these things! Thanks, Zia, I will have to go back and check that out!
I'll admit I didn't really care much when Eko died the first time around. But now in hindsight and rewatching him, I do really care. He is awesome.
ETA: I can sort of see now why the Marshall was so hell bent on getting Kate. How embarrassing and insulting to get knocked out by a girl in handcuffs and left in a puddle of mud in the rain, while she drives off in his car. I still don't see that he could get that kind of manpower though.
Anyone have thoughts on Kate's timeline during the running?
ozchick
09-29-07, 09:55 PM
MMMMmmmm, Jin's abs.... :pant: What a great way to start an episode. :D
Kate is starting to lose it too. She'd been doing ok until the return of Sawyer which brought back all these old feelings. I think her kissing Jack was mostly about trying to see if she could be good, and could be with someone good like Jack. She thinks she deserves someone like Sawyer.
More fantastic Locke - Eko scenes, just great.
I remember freaking out when "Dad?" appeared on the screen, but that was nothing compared to Truff's head exploding. :D He was all over that. :D
Sawyer nicknames:
Freckles (a repeat, I know, but it's been several eps since there was one. :D)
Black Manta
10-03-07, 06:14 AM
OK, so she killed Wayne because she found out he was her father and she went off the deep end. And she wanted to help her mother. So she embraced the Dark Side because she felt that was her destiny?
Are we suppose to believe Sawyer was channelling Wayne?
Was the black stallion that caused the car crash the same one on the island? Were they both smokie? Or is the horse the ghost of Wayne helping her escape the law?
And would the authorities put that much effort into chasing her? Especially to Australia? Would Australia have wanted posters of American criminals?
I think the black stallion was supposed to be the same one that Kate saw with the Marshall, otherwise she wouldn't have "known" that horse.
Has Smokey ever caused a mass hallucination? Sawyer saw it too. I suppose that when Walt appeared to Shannon and Sayid saw him it could be interpreted that way, but we don't know if that was caused by Smokey or Jacob at this point.The horse seemed to represent some sort of redemption factor for Kate.
11Rooster11
10-04-07, 01:27 PM
So if Sawyer is "channelling" Wayne, do we think that it is possible that it was Wayne that said "I love her" to Jack? Later on Jack quotes Sawyer. Sawyer acts as if he doesn't know what he's talking about. Could be because it was Wayne or because Sawyer was completely out of it.
GardenMom
10-04-07, 02:22 PM
Has Smokey ever caused a mass hallucination? Sawyer saw it too. I suppose that when Walt appeared to Shannon and Sayid saw him it could be interpreted that way, but we don't know if that was caused by Smokey or Jacob at this point.
Multiple people can see Smokey at the same time (Kate/Juliet, Kate/Jack/Charlie, Charlie/Eko, etc.), so I don't really understand the debate over multiple people seeing the various manifestations of Smokey.
Multiple people can see Smokey at the same time (Kate/Juliet, Kate/Jack/Charlie, Charlie/Eko, etc.), so I don't really understand the debate over multiple people seeing the various manifestations of Smokey.
I was referring to mass produced hallucinations brought on by Smokey, not seeing Smokey itself.
11Rooster11 - re. Sawyer's "channelling" of Wayne I think he was. First there was the "Why did you kill me ?" phrase and then the "I love her" and didn't Jack look peeved about that ! I think there was mention of Wayne being in love with Kate at one stage, but also I believe that when Sawyer was resuscitating Michael on the raft he was saying "I love her," like a sort of chant. I think he does love her in his own strange way, but I don't really think Kate loves him. Oh what a tangled web they've weaved with those two! Sawyer was probably unaware that he'd said anything and the thought that Jack was aware of his feelings made him feel uncomfortable.
Locke 'n' Load
10-08-07, 12:44 AM
thanks for putting that transcript section in Ozanna, that part confused me a bit. I guess what she is saying is that Sawyer reminds her of Wayne? Or is it that she can't have a loving relationship with anyone because of who she is/who her father is? That no one should care about her?
Catnap that whole scenario with Kate and Sawyer ... was bizarre. ... no matter how much she feels for Sawyer she will never be able to love him properly because he's not a "good" person, and whenever she sees Sawyer she will see Wayne. Oh, you could go round and round in circles with these two.
IMO Kate wants Sawyer but because she is Wayne's prodigy she feels she is not worthy of anyone's love. When she looks at Sawyer and feels those feelings, she is reminded of Wayne (and who she is) and "it makes her sick". I don't believe she means that Sawyer is just like Wayne.
I couldn't help but wonder why Kate took Wayne's shoes off when she helped him into bed, unless it was to make everything look "normal" (for the investigators). However, "normal" might have been Wayne coming home drunk and just passing out on the bed with his shoes still on.
There were 2 "I love her" statements in this episode. Sawyer regarding Kate (or as some have suggested: Wayne channeling through Sawyer) and Sayid regarding Shannon.
Locke'n'Load
I just read your post and what I posted, and I think I've changed my mind again ! I don't think its actually that Sawyers not a good person that she can never love him, after all she thinks shes not either, but there's something about Sawyer that makes her think of Wayne and she hates to think that she's attracted to someone who reminds her of someone she despised (not to mention, killed !) Also I believe neither of them feels they are worthy of being loved, which makes me wonder why Kate is constantly trotting around after Jack. After all wouldn't a relationship with someone you felt on equal footing with be preferrable to someone you felt was so much better than you? And a relationship between two people who have such low self-esteem as those two do (I mean her and Sawyer) will be totally catastrophic. Unless one of them can build up themself and drag the other one up too. See, I told you I could go round and round in circles with these two. I'm going !
Locke 'n' Load
10-08-07, 05:08 AM
Also I believe neither of them feels they are worthy of being loved, which makes me wonder why Kate is constantly trotting around after Jack. After all wouldn't a relationship with someone you felt on equal footing with be preferrable to someone you felt was so much better than you? And a relationship between two people who have such low self-esteem as those two do (I mean her and Sawyer) will be totally catastrophic. Unless one of them can build up themself and drag the other one up too. See, I told you I could go round and round in circles with these two. I'm going !
I agree, Ozanna, neither one of them feels they are worthy to be loved. I can't see a relationship between the two lasting very long before the baggage from their past and their low self-esteem starts to crumble the foundation of their love.
Unfortunately, even if only one of them gets therapy and improves their emotional well-being, the relationship still has a poor prognosis. The person with the baggage seems to bring down the other person instead of the other way around.
But that doesn't necessarily have to be the case. Perhaps their time on the island will help them to look at their lives and make the necessary life adjustments. I can see that a bit in Sawyer's life but not in Kate's so far.
I guess I can go around and around about this too! :D
GardenMom
10-08-07, 07:03 AM
This thought is a little "out there", but I remembered reading an intriguing post about Wayne's death, so I searched it out again. These are two posts from the "What Did Kate Say" thread in Theories which involved speculation about the story that Kate had told Fed. Marshall Edward Mars. (The entire thread is an interesting read!)
http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1688939&postcount=36
http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1725864&postcount=73
So after reading these posts, I wonder if it could it be possible that Wayne had a brain tumor?
After his parents' deaths, did Sawyer get shipped off to live with a nasty uncle, and could that uncle have been Wayne? Ozanna, Hodge and Zia speculated about who raised Sawyer in these posts from the "Outlaws" hiatus rewatch thread.
http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1722915&postcount=16
http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1727233&postcount=19
http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1729133&postcount=23
If there is some sort of family connection between Sawyer and Wayne, then maybe Kate was literally seeing a resemblence between them when she made her comment about "everytime I look at you I see him".
Just a bizarre thought (full of holes) to try and explain Kate's bizarre dialog.
Great thought GardenMom! Oops, there goes dinner ! I'm always looking for something to look into and now you've got me going again. I will start investigating ! I love theories and if they involve Sawyer, so much the better. I can think of a few others that may be interested too. OMG can you imagine the hullaballoo if it turns out that Sawyer and Kate are brother and sister !!!!!!!!!! Oops I think I just wet myself ! Don't tell me the whole damn islands' related ! I'm excited ! My exclamation marks have gone into overdrive.
GardenMom
10-08-07, 12:57 PM
OK Ozanna, now you've got me excited too. I was thinking this was pretty-fetched, but two things keep occurring to me. 1) Sawyer's "I had an uncle who died of a brain tumor" conversation with Jack. If someone is getting headaches, I don't think they typically jump to the conclusion it's a brain tumor...especially Sawyer. This is a guy who pulled a bullet out of his own arm! And it was Kate who insisted he go see Dr. Jack about the headaches. Could she have had previous experience of brain tumors because of Wayne?
2) Sawyer sent Cassidy to Iowa with directions to meet him at a specific motel. So it seems he's been in Iowa before. But when and why? His adult life as a con-artist seems to center around the southern states. His childhood when his parents were alive was Alabama; his prison time was served in Florida. But maybe the relatives he was shipped off to at age 8 year were in Iowa. He fondly watched "Little House" as a kid when he had mono, which is a mid-western kind of show.
This thought is a little "out there", but I remembered reading an intriguing post about Wayne's death, so I searched it out again. These are two posts from the "What Did Kate Say" thread in Theories which involved speculation about the story that Kate had told Fed. Marshall Edward Mars. (The entire thread is an interesting read!)
http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1688939&postcount=36
http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1725864&postcount=73
So after reading these posts, I wonder if it could it be possible that Wayne had a brain tumor?
After his parents' deaths, did Sawyer get shipped off to live with a nasty uncle, and could that uncle have been Wayne? Ozanna, Hodge and Zia speculated about who raised Sawyer in these posts from the "Outlaws" hiatus rewatch thread.
http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1722915&postcount=16
http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1727233&postcount=19
http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1729133&postcount=23
If there is some sort of family connection between Sawyer and Wayne, then maybe Kate was literally seeing a resemblence between them when she made her comment about "everytime I look at you I see him".
Just a bizarre thought (full of holes) to try and explain Kate's bizarre dialog.
LOL. We LOVE a good conspiracy theory in here. :D
Hi again, GardenMom Okay I've settled down a bit now ! I thought I had a few clues about Sawyer/Wayne but all I got was blanks so far. I did find something in the Tail Section, which for some reason claimed in a preview that Kate acually euthanazed someone (presumably Wayne) but it turned out that that person was not terminally ill. Sounds like another of Kate's famous stuff-ups. Just a query, didn't Kate's mom die of a brain tumor ? However I still think there was some sort of relationship between the two of them. After all Sawyers' been to Iowa, Kates' been to Florida, any of them could be related in some way. Anyway I'll keep looking - once I get my teeth into something its like a dog with a bone !
But to get back to the more mystical side - maybe due to the fact that Sawyer was pretty close to death, and due to the fact that Wayne was apparently quite attracted to Kate, and also that his spirit may still have been not at rest due to the fact that she killed him, he did manage to transfer himself through Sawyer, hence the "Why did you kill me ?" which would scare the living daylights out of most people ! Also Hurley had been talking to Jack about transference that day, so it seemed like it was a topical theme at the time !
Anyway hopefully we can all keep looking and between us come up with something mindblowing ! I'll go and check on Kate's Mom now.
Just a query, didn't Kate's mom die of a brain tumor ?
Kate's Mom died of cancer, maybe in her brain but I don't think it was stated exactly. However, she was getting an MRI, so maybe it was a cancerous tumor.
However, she was getting an MRI....
Yeah, but not just any MRI. I missed that sign the first time around. ;)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v698/Leuthen2/MRI.jpg
GardenMom
10-10-07, 01:37 PM
What the...??? Magnetic Resonance IMAGINING! I think I want one of those.:)
Could this be another conspiracy theory coming on .......... Actually I don't think I need one GardenMom !! Thats a really big blooper.
Could this be another conspiracy theory coming on ..........
God, I hope so. :D
Darkrogue
10-11-07, 07:41 AM
Great speculation on the Kate/Sawyer/Wayne issue. That one always had me confused.
I remember when I first saw this episode, thinking “please don’t let them go with the molestation thing”. I always hate it it when writers take a good female character and reduce her to the role of sexual victim (as if enough damage hasn’t been done to Kate’s character). Fortunately, they haven’t really pushed it too far in that direction. Here's hoping they don't.
This episode wasn't one of my favorites (Jack and Kate's are among my least favorites), but it did answer one major question, as it states in the title. :D
I love the Sun/Jin stuff, and Locke and Eko, of course!
GardenMom
10-14-07, 02:50 PM
This thread got me more curious about the role of Kate's mom, so I did a little searching. When Kate blows up the house, they are in Iowa where Kate's mom is working in a diner. Then in "The Long Con" we see Sawyer and Gordy eating at a diner in Florida where Kate's mom is their waitress. I'm assuming this diner was in Florida because I'm convinced this is where Sawyer's con of Cassidy took place. Then in the episode where Cassidy sets up the soup-spill so Kate can get a chance to see her mother, Mom is working at yet another diner back in Iowa. It is clearly three different diners, so when and why did Diane Jansen pack up and go to Florida to work? And why did she return to Iowa?
ozchick
10-14-07, 08:03 PM
This thread got me more curious about the role of Kate's mom, so I did a little searching. When Kate blows up the house, they are in Iowa where Kate's mom is working in a diner. Then in "The Long Con" we see Sawyer and Gordy eating at a diner in Florida where Kate's mom is their waitress. I'm assuming this diner was in Florida because I'm convinced this is where Sawyer's con of Cassidy took place. Then in the episode where Cassidy sets up the soup-spill so Kate can get a chance to see her mother, Mom is working at yet another diner back in Iowa. It is clearly three different diners, so when and why did Diane Jansen pack up and go to Florida to work? And why did she return to Iowa?
Why are you so sure the Cassidy con took place in Florida? When Sawyer pretends to let Cassidy in on the con, he sends her to Sioux City (which is also in Iowa) by car, and says he'll be there in the morning. That's a long drive from Florida.
Yeah, but not just any MRI. I missed that sign the first time around. ;)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v698/Leuthen2/MRI.jpg
OMG Brian what a great catch! Took me a minute to figure out what you meant....
GardenMom
10-15-07, 07:28 AM
True, that would be a long drive. I'm basing my Florida thought on a couple of things. 1) Sawyer served his prison time in Florida - he named a town and a highway when he turned in Munson's hiding place for the money, which actually exists in Florida. He would serve his sentence in the state where the crime was committed, and I think his "Tallahassee job" was the Cassidy con. He lost the girl, she filed charges, and he got a prison sentence. 2) In the "I Do" episode, Kate's police officer husband talks about a load of paperwork that he had to do for the fugitive out of Florida that they had to send back.
Why are you so sure the Cassidy con took place in Florida? When Sawyer pretends to let Cassidy in on the con, he sends her to Sioux City (which is also in Iowa) by car, and says he'll be there in the morning. That's a long drive from Florida.
True, that would be a long drive. I'm basing my Florida thought on a couple of things. 1) Sawyer served his prison time in Florida - he named a town and a highway when he turned in Munson's hiding place for the money, which actually exists in Florida. He would serve his sentence in the state where the crime was committed, and I think his "Tallahassee job" was the Cassidy con. He lost the girl, she filed charges, and he got a prison sentence. 2) In the "I Do" episode, Kate's police officer husband talks about a load of paperwork that he had to do for the fugitive out of Florida that they had to send back.
I specifically remember the writers referring to Tallahassee as the "Mouth of Hell" in regards to LOST. Nice observations everyone! :D
sweetsunray
12-27-07, 03:41 PM
Kate's kiss: I can see Kate's attraction and care/love for Sawyer and yet see her attraction to Jack as well, as well as his attraction to her. That kiss was long overdue, but also the trigger for the events in the hunting party.
I used to empathize with Kate in this scene, but nowadays, when reminded of S3 Kate I see someone who plays with the feelings of others. She's incredibly immature when it comes to her attractions. Anyway more about it later on. Need to go back to the start of the epi and I'd like to get into the 3 viewpoints of the people involved.
Sawyer's delirious, and had Kate by his side, nursing him for 24 hours... She showed her caring for him... Though never more than half conscious, Sawyer was enveloped in something that must have felt incredibly soothing and good. No wonder he confessed his love for her to Jack, and of course the farthest thing on Sawyer's unconscious mind would be that Kate would have feelings for Jack if he slept like a baby in her arms.
It seems to look that way to Jack as well. He noticed Kate's affection for Sawyer and now hears Sawyer professing his love for Kate. Until then Jack may have regarded Sawyer's come-ons to Kate as nothing more than getting into her pants. But he cannot assume this anymore after Sawyer's confession. Sawyer has true feelings. Add the fact that despite some flirting nothing ever really happened between Jack and Kate, so that leaves but the conclusion in Jack's mind that Kate is falling for Sawyer, not interested in Jack, and so Skate is reality for Jack.
That Jack cared for Kate was clear to Jack early on, but I don't think it was clear to him he was also attracted to her until rather recent (the shower scene), after he cleared most of his distrust issues about Kate and her past. And he probably realized only since seeing Kate's affections for delirious Sawyer that his feelings may go deeper even, and that he himself is falling in love, right at the moment that he's out of the picture in his mind.
The next triangle scene is where Jack tries to make Kate go to Shannon's funeral. That to me is a mix of concern for Kate's health (like Kate urged him to rest when he was all goth after draining his blood into Boone) as well as the instinctive urge to delay the inevitable... he wants to avoid Kate hearing Sawyer profess his love for her, a selfish but all too human reaction.
Sayid gives his speech about Shannon and that speech would also resonate within Jack. Kate and him were strangers, would never have met or spoke, but he did meet her, did speak with her, and at least is starting to realize he's falling in love with her and may come to love her.
Next is the scene where Sawyer tries to strangle her: It's cute how Kate talks to Sawyer and is looking forward to treating him like a baby, take care of him... we saw something similar when she had the chance to take care of Jack and have him drop asleep in S1.
We know that Wayne is already on her mind since she saw the horse. And Wayne was a sleazy guy coming on to Kate, much like Sawyer used to hit on her. And I think that's where Kate's confession of seeing Wayne in Sawyer comes from imo. And I suspect that we could even transfer her attraction to Sawyer to Wayne as well. That despite her hatred for Wayne, his treatment of her mother, his come-ons to her as stepdaughter, Kate was also attracted to Wayne. Not until she found out he was actually her genetic father it was this what made her feel so dirty and evil. And she hated him all the more for it.
Did Sawyer channel Wayne or not? In the end, I don't think it really matters. What matters that surely Kate believes Wayne spoke through Sawyer to her, since Sawyer reminds her of Wayne and his murder was already on her mind. And if the island had anything to do with it, then I suspect it's Smokey trying to extract a confession from Kate, since the other entity/twin/half uses dreams or drug-trips.
Next triangle scene: Jack and Locke walk into the aftermath of the struggle scene between Sawyer and Kate. Locke acts a bit silly asking questions to Jack he has no answers to, but I imagine that Jack's thinking about the possible answers. He probably suspects that Sawyer confessed his love to Kate, and for some weird reason it made Kate run off. Little does he know that a similar scene occurred between Sawyer and Kate as has happened between the Marshall and Kate.
Jack and Kate in the jungle: It seems to me that Jack's siding with Sawyer initially... the man is gravely ill, took a bullet out of his arm, in love with Kate and was obviously led to believe he had a chance based on Kate's affectionate behaviour to him; she insists on watching him, but when Sawyer confesses his love to her she runs out on him and leaves him on the floor. Jack confronts her with it, well at least with her self-chosen responsibility, and he has every right to. His mistrust may irritate some, but well Kate's behaviour warranted it.
Her reaction is the last he expected. Kate has an outburst about how much she thinks he's perfect and that she isn't as perfect as him. I don't think Jack thinks he's perfect, far from it actually. A lot of his issues are about feeling insufficient himself. Jack used to believe he was not good enough for his dad, and as we'll learn in the hunting party that he wasn't good enough for Sarah. So, although Kate and many viewers may see Jack as a narcistic guy who thinks himself perfect, this outward display is something Jack is unaware of simply because that is not how he thinks about himself inside.
Jack's keen enough a guy to realize that her outburst and her behaviour to Sawyer is about something deep inside her, something he wanted to learn about for a long time now, and he wants her to trust him, to take care of her, to be there for her.
Kate looks at him like a surprised child when in his arms, when enveloped in his caring emotions... for the first time since they met, she believes he cares deeply for her, might actually love her, and so drawn to him kisses him, which takes Jack (who thought he was out of the picture) by surprise. This surprise disables Jack from responding at his heart's content, so when they break the kiss and are both assessing what just happened, Jack's thinking, "Wow, I do have a chance," and Kate's thinking, "What a fool did I make of myself," because Kate does not believe she ever has a chance to win Jack. He was rather unresponsive to her flirting in S1 in her eyes, and seemingly unresponsive to her kiss. We can see fear in Kate's eyes after that kiss. I also suspect her inferiority complex comes back to her like a boomerang. Her expression contains a hint of being repulsed, but imo not towards Jack, but about herself and what she has just done... combined with her inferiority complex I'd say she's repulsed that she herself, a nobody, an evil person, taints someone as "good" (in her eyes) as Jack. And then Kate runs...
Where Jack first thought it was a clear Skate situation, Kate has just given him hope, and yet runs off again, leaving him truly confused... he used to distrust her for her past, but not about where he stood, but this time she's dragging him into her mess emotionally. And she has just played him. Jack's lying when he says he isn't angry to Hurley... Jack's angry or rather working himself up to be angry, at himself for letting himself be played, the triangle situation, and Kate for toying with him. But I do believe him when he says he isn't angry with Sawyer.
When Kate re-enters the hatch apparently she's looking for Jack. My guess is that she wants to apologize to Jack, tell him she's sorry for coming on to him... as she will do later on SOS.
Later on she gives her answer to Wayne's question of why she killed him... And what makes her sick of Sawyer and of Wayne is that she was attracted to a person who she thought was bad for her.
I tend to agree with the opinion that Kate's attractions are based on who she wants/aspire to be and who she hates to be. It's probably the most common psychological basis of attraction: transference... people look up to other people with traits they admire but believe not to possess (thing is you wouldn't notice those traits if they were not a part of you already), but people are also attracted to those who are as they believe themselves to be, what they think they deserve. In that sense, the triangle is the island's tool of Kate's redemption, and her intimacy with both men may teach her that people aren't black and white, and that she is anybody's equal... the good doctor is seriously flawed, the sleazy hilbilly is a diamond in the rough, the selfish runaway can be extremely self-sacrificial. But most importantly she is as good as the doctor and the hilbilly. Important steps to redemption have been taken by Kate: she remained instead of ran at the cages and ran WITH somebody afterwards, and she learned she could acquire the love and affections of a man she originally supposed to better than her and who knows who she is, flaws and all.
One last thought about these three: they've all reached a stage in life where they became/are becoming the person they disliked in their life, against their will...
- James became Sawyer
- Kate falls for guys she believes are bad news and ends up with that guy over the perceived good guy, just like her mom... her own mother chose Wayne above Austen and Wayne was Kate's actual genetical father... and this fear of repeating her mother's mistakes blinds Kate of valuing James in the second half of S3 and keeping on wishing for Jack's affections instead.
- Jack acts as if he is almighty, and comes across as if other people can never be as good as him because of a combination of an appearance of following higher moral values, distrust and criticism... the exact same image his father impressed him with... He hated this attitude in his father, it made him feel inferior, unworthy, etc... and yet he's doing the same thing. And as we know with the finale of S3 he does turn in the fully narcistic and self-pitying image of his drunken father.
The sins of the fathers and mothers become those of the children.
On to other stuff: Eko and Locke... The most significant thing said between them imo is Eko's "Don't mistake coincidence for fate." I don't deny Locke being entangled into fate and destiny, but his mistake often is to regard coincidence as fate... some stuff is just coincidence, and other stuff is fate... but he's so desperately looking for his life to have meaning that he tags everything as fated.
And of course there's Michael's conversation with "Walt" on the computer, which we later learn (in Exposé) most probably was an Other pretending to be Walt to set Ben's trap.
I specifically remember the writers referring to Tallahassee as the "Mouth of Hell" in regards to LOST. Nice observations everyone! :D
Interesting, considering that's where Kate was buying her ticket to after she blew up Wayne.
I specifically remember the writers referring to Tallahassee as the "Mouth of Hell" in regards to LOST. Nice observations everyone! :D
Yes they did. :) Here's a partial transcript of the Official LOST Podcast (Feb. 20, 2007 (http://lostpedia.com/wiki/Official_Lost_Podcast_transcript/February_20%2C_2007)) where Cuselof discusses Tallahassee. I'm tagging it for those who don't wish to read it:
Carlton Cuse: I don't know what they have against Valencia, I mean, they, they must have something against Valencia in the same way that, you know, people in Tallahassee think we have some problem with Tallahassee.
Damon Lindelof: We do have a problem with Tallahassee. (Carlton laughs)
Carlton Cuse: Do you want to clear that up, once and for all, what the problem is with Tallahassee? Or should we just leave that as an unsolved mystery?
Damon Lindelof: We don't have a problem with Tallahassee. Tallahassee is a wonderful, wonderful city, in the -
Carlton Cuse: If you like waffles.
Damon Lindelof: - wonderful state of Florida. If you like waffles. No, Tallahassee's great, it just happens to be a nexus point where many of our characters have crossed paths. Which forces -
Carlton Cuse: Like a hellmouth?
Damon Lindelof: Yeah, like a hellmouth (Carlton laughs), which forces them to, to uh, to, to, and Sayer has negative, negative uh, negative feelings about Tallahassee, so -
Carlton Cuse: We'd like to hear from any of you fans from Tallahassee about what are the, sort of the, strengths and weaknesses of Tallahassee.
Damon Lindelof: I do feel like we're not doing a good job of arguing both sides of, of, of -
Carlton Cuse: Tallahassee's, uh, we haven't had the episodes yet where we've really seen the virtues of Tallahassee.
Damon Lindelof: There is an episode of this season coming up called "The Man From Tallahassee".
Carlton Cuse: But that one really won't make Tallahassee look any better will it?
Damon Lindelof: It probably won't. (Carlton laughs) It will only make it look worse.
Carlton Cuse: I'm sure people like Tallahassee.
Damon Lindelof: They're just like any, like any town or city in the entire world, there are bad people that come from that town, and it doesn't mean that they are bad because they're from Tallahassee, but it's possible that that's why they're bad (Carlton laughs) I'm just saying.
Carlton Cuse: Okay, (Damon laughs) let's just make sure we don't go driving through Tallahassee any time soon. I'm sure it's nice. It's, I'm sure it's a nice town. Um, alright, uh, can I just ask you one more question? Can you talk about, um, uh, what, no never mind.
Damon Lindelof: Uh, alright. (Laughs]
Carlton Cuse: I'll just play the banjo instead.
[B]Damon Lindelof: Alright. Thanks Carlton, I'm just. What a, what a great podcast.
Carlton Cuse: We'll see you guys -
Damon Lindelof: We'll see you next week -
Carlton Cuse: - next time.
Damon Lindelof: - and god we'll make sure that Carlton does not bring that banjo back.
Carlton Cuse: Bye!
Wow! I almost had that exactly right! ;)
Wow! I almost had that exactly right! ;)
I'm going to keep expecting Buffy and Spike to show up now !:vampire:
LOST Hiatus Rewatch:
Week 11
Weds., August 5th-August 11th 2009
S2:E9: What Kate Did
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u34/zia29112/LOST%20Stuff/300px-Lost-season1.jpg
World Walker
08-11-09, 12:01 AM
Jin looked pretty good at the beginning; after all he went through, he deserves a little happiness with Sun. Hurley giving him the thumbs up made me laugh. :clap:
The black horse appeared for the first time when Kate was picking fruit for Sawyer. Could it be just another Island manifestation, or did Smokey somehow scan the memory out of her mind and make the horse appear? Maybe what caused the horse to appear isn’t the important part. Maybe the question I should be asking is why is Kate seeing the horse now?
Kate’s father was a miserable guy. That was just downright creepy when he ‘complemented’ her and grabbed her arm. I can see why someone might be tempted to do him in. An interesting thing I noticed was Kate took off his shoes before she left the room. This mirrors the scene in the pilot when she takes the shoes off the dead body on the beach. This body was alive, though it would not be for much longer.
Kate’s mom looked pleased about what she had done (regarding the insurance policy) before she realized Kate had deliberately blown Wayne up.
Watching Sayid try to speak at Shannon’s funeral was agonizing. That man has absolutely no luck with love. First Shannon is shot, then Nadia (supposedly the love of his life) is run down, then he had to kill the woman he fell in love with in Germany (Elsa?) because she wasn’t who he thought she was. Poor, poor Sayid…no wonder he wanted to blow up the Island at the end of Season Five. :sigh:
Kate’s got the right idea going. If I was a survivor of 815, I’d make a beeline for the record player in the Swan. :)
That scene where Sawyer grabs Kate and says, “Why did you kill me?” is very peculiar. To this day, with all we know, I’m still not sure what to make of it. Was it really Wayne, speaking through an ill Sawyer? Somehow, I doubt it; I mean, we sure see a lot of manifestations, but we don’t really see ghost (for lack of a better way to describe it) possessions. Unless this is a manifestation and it is more like an auditory manifestation than a visual, kind of like Christian Shepherd’s voice coming out of the Hydra intercom in Jack’s cell in Season Three. :scratchch
The easiest answer I suppose would be to say that Sawyer was very, very delirious and the words that just happened to come out of his mouth hit Kate to the core.
That cuff has been on Jin’s wrist since the sixth episode of Season One and now it has finally been cut off. He really has had a happy episode so far.
Kate always seems to become aroused whenever she’s in a heightened state of emotional distress. This is what prompts her first kiss with Jack, creating a very unstable foundation for their relationship. As if this isn’t bad enough, her reaction at the end of their kiss is to run away. This instability serves to foreshadow the shape of their relationship in the future and the tragic turns it will take.
The horse made a very timely appearance so Kate could escape the Marshall. Was it just a regular horse or did the Island reach out to her back then?
Eko: “Long before Christ, the king of Judah was a man named Josiah. At that time, the temple where the people worshipped was in ruin. And so the people worshipped idols – false gods. And so, the kingdom was in disarray. Josiah, since he was a good king, sent his secretary to the treasury and said, ‘We must rebuild the temple.’ He gave all of the gold to the workers so this would be done. But when the secretary returned, he had no gold. And when Josiah asked why this was, his secretary replied, ‘We found a book.’ It was with that ancient book, not with the gold, that Josiah rebuilt the temple.”
– I found the story Eko told very interesting and I found some interesting parallels to LOST in the story. For instance, Eko told us of a temple and that it was in ruin. Well, there’s a temple on the Island that’s very important to the Others (and to this date, we still haven’t seen it!). There are many ruins on the Island from ancient cultures that may or may not have some connection to the people in the above story. The biggest snippet to jump out at me was that the people began worshipping false gods. Well, it’s been my opinion, ever since we learned about Jacob and his opponent, that the Others may not have been serving Jacob at all over the years, but merely tricked into believing they were following him by the dark force, aka MiB. This conflict between light (Jacob) and dark (MiB) has left the Island in disarray, much like the kingdom in this story.
Hurley points out to Jack how Sawyer is usually the one to chop wood in the jungle and says it is like transference. That’s a good word to describe what may’ve happened between Kate and Sawyer earlier when he said, “Why did you kill me?” Still, that doesn’t explain this rather odd and isolated phenomenon. Again, I’m tempted to believe Sawyer just happened to say the right thing to set Kate off in his state of delirium.
Kate: “Every time I look at Sawyer, every time I feel something for him, I see you Wayne, and it makes me sick.”
Sawyer: “Well, that’s just about the sweetest thing I’ve ever heard.” :rotfl:
Eko has taken Locke’s place this season as the official man of faith. The man Locke once was off the island is beginning to show more and more, despite his fairly competent exterior in Season One.
That was so funny how Sawyer refused to believe Kate when she said they hadn’t been rescued. Can’t say that I blame him.
Sawyer and Kate both can clearly see the horse. This reminds me of Sayid and Shannon a couple episodes back clearly seeing Walt. These manifestations don’t just occur for one person at a time and they are solid (evidenced by Kate managing to touch the horse). Unlike some of the manifestations whose motives are murky at best (did Wet Walt try to warn away or attempt to lure Shannon to her death?), the horse seems to be a beneficial comfort to Kate, confirmation that she’s not going crazy. Likewise, Jack’s father leading him to the caves and water seemed beneficial in Season One, as well.
Film splice: “Do not attempt to use the computer for anything else other than the entering of the code. This is its only function. The isolation that attends the duties associated with Station Three may tempt you to utilize the computer for communication with the outside world. This is strictly prohibited. Attempting to use the computer in this manner would compromise the integrity of the project and worse, could lead to another incident. I repeat, do not use the computer for anything other than entering the code.”
– This repeated warning gives me the impression that the Initiative was very concerned about the Hostiles finding the Swan Station should they ever overthrow Dharma (assuming the Hostiles had no idea where the Swan was). They really wanted to keep the Swan isolated to the max.
The ending was pretty good. We see Candle on the video telling them not to use the computer for anything other than entering the code. Then we hear a strange sound and Michael begins communicating with who he believes to be Walt. We know better, though. The Others were luring him out and they succeeded.
Mercifully, the screen goes to L O S T just before the inevitable spill of, “Waaaaaaaaaallllllllllllltttttt!” bursts from Michael’s mouth. :nanabobo:
Overall, this was a pretty busy episode and very thought provoking. :Cheers:
I know what you mean about Sawyer, World Walker, and the question of where his head is ! And Kate if it comes to that ! Sawyer has been brought back to the beach on the brink of death to be tended to by Jack and a dithery Kate. Actually I liked Jack with Sawyer this time, even though Sawyer said he loved Kate, and stunned Jack just a tad !
I thought about Sawyer's mental state, and it occurred to me that because he was so close to death, he basically had one foot inside the pearly gates. Meanwhile Wayne had been killed by Kate and saw an opportunity to reach her through Sawyer who was at the moment in an extremely vulnerable state. He was hovering on the brink, thus his ability to be used as a conduit between Wayne and Kate - life and death.
But Kate saw too much of Wayne in Sawyer - and the fact that Wayne was her Daddy didn't help.
Sawyer was one of the few losties that actually heard the Whispers, the Boars appeared to know him. He heard Duckett saying "It will all come back around". OK, that all sounds a bit convoluted, but it does appear that he has a more heightened sense of the paranormal than anyone else. Is this his mother trying to help him from beyond the grave ? Once he made his miraculous recovery from his bullet wound he had no recollection of any of it. Those sure must have been some powerful antibiotics !
AChristianShephard
08-26-09, 03:07 PM
First Shannon is shot, then Nadia (supposedly the love of his life) is run down, then he had to kill the woman he fell in love with in Germany (Elsa?) because she wasn’t who he thought she was. Poor, poor Sayid…no wonder he wanted to blow up the Island at the end of Season Five. :sigh:
Is this not normal?
AChristianShephard
08-26-09, 03:21 PM
Wow Kate blew me out of the water in this episode, she's magnificent.
I loved the scene with the horse.
Is this the last ever good Kate-centric episode?
Its certainly the last season of good Kate episodes, I believe she had one return to form in Season 5 at some point.
I don't think I fully understood and appreciated this episode when it aired, its really clever.
10/10
Is this not normal?
Locke and Sayid take it in turns. :)
Okie dokie. I finally made it to this episode. Sawyer, while in a feverish, septic state says he loves Kate. Jack is stunned. Kate sees the black horse while picking mangoes. After she blows up Wayne, drunken idiot, she goes to see her mom who promptly turns her in. The marshal and 2 cohorts are at the bus station and they arrest Kate. As they are driving there is an accident and the car runs into a tree. Kate goes for the keys on the marshal to remove her handcuffs, he awakens, she clocks him and leaves him in the rain and drives away. oh yeah she sees the horse. I missed that too.
Kate kisses Jack then runs away. Nit nat. Now Michael and Eko get to watch the Orientation video and Eko hands over the missing tape to John that he found in the Book of Laws. I didn't catch the "Book of Laws" first go around. Eko said it was the Old Testament. Interesting.
Kate and Sawyer take a walk out of the hatch. Yeah that door that he was banging on for Daniel. Sawyer and Kate both see the black horse and Kate says it was her horse. Locke splices the missing to original tape. He watches with Eko and to learn that the computer is not to be used for anything other than inputting the numbers since it could cause another incident. Another incident? Guess this confirms he survived the 1st one.
In the meantime Michael is checking out the computer system and hears a tone. He goes to the monitor and sees, Hello? Of course he must stick his :twocents: and types in to find that MAYBE Walt is on the other end. I don't see anything that resembles an incident or did I miss something?
Dew
In the meantime Michael is checking out the computer system and hears a tone. He goes to the monitor and sees, Hello? Of course he must stick his and types in to find that MAYBE Walt is on the other end. I don't see anything that resembles an incident or did I miss something?
Maybe Michael seeing Walt's "Hallo" and then putting two and two together and making five was what caused all the future stuff to happen, after they had been warned to not use it for anything other than inputting the numbers. Shrugs ! :)
Sawyer's physical condition was surprisingly good, seeing as what he had been through. I think Jack may have needed a cold shower too.
Putting 2 and 2 together and making 5. :rotfl: What a perfect what to describe everything that happened. :D
Putting 2 and 2 together and making 5. :rotfl: What a perfect what to describe everything that happened. :D
Michael sure didn't know where to stop did he ! :D
AChristianShephard
09-15-09, 05:19 PM
Kate completely PWNED in this episode!
Who's with me?
YES! KATE FTW! :throb:
*waits for the inevitable fallout*
Not saying a word here ! But even she thought she was out of control ! :rolleyez:
AChristianShephard
09-15-09, 10:21 PM
We all loose control at points Ozzy, yes?
We all loose control at points Ozzy, yes?
Who, moi :D Well, O.K. - sometimes :kaboom:
Actually if you're talking losing control, you need look no further than :whistling *drum roll* JACK :Cheers:
AChristianShephard
09-15-09, 10:56 PM
lol dont bring him into it.
Ohh, im suddenly in the mood for watching an ep of lost, i'd better stick the kettle on.
Sugar & milk I presume?
:coffeedunk: Lots of sugar, mate - I need sweetening up in the morning ! I can't remember where I'm up to, so I just run around randomly ...
What is control? :confused:
:coffeedunk: Lots of sugar, mate - I need sweetening up in the morning ! I can't remember where I'm up to, so I just run around randomly ...
Oh no!! You're not washing dishes, are you?
Oh no!! You're not washing dishes, are you?
Omg I just was ! Are you psychic or psycho ? :D Now I'm gonna have a shower, so you can expect something weird later in the day ! :Cheers:
Omg I just was ! Are you psychic or psycho ?
LMAO! Psychic, I'm psychic.
...and yes, I already know what's going to happen next, lol. ;)
*is hyperventilating*. I think my shower was too hot .... :melting:
AChristianShephard
09-16-09, 12:27 AM
Omg I just was ! Are you psychic or psycho ? :D Now I'm gonna have a shower, so you can expect something weird later in the day ! :Cheers:
Phycho.
Deffo Phycho :nanabobo:
I somehow got distracted by work for another 90mins.
I now am actually going to watch an episode of LOST.
Phew.
Ill make us another Cuppa Ozzy.
Zee?
Phycho.
Deffo Phycho :nanabobo:
Ill make us another Cuppa Ozzy.
Zee?
See? I KNEW he was going to say that. :D
Yes, please...
Uhh, can you let me out of my straightjacket now? Little help, Ozzy? ;)
AChristianShephard
09-16-09, 01:00 AM
a, ot m thre.
Your jut a figur o my imgintion.
Hve you v ha a prop up of nglih Tea Z?
Are you sure that's just tea you're drinkin, Shep ? But I'm up for another one anyway :)
Errr ummm - re. the straightjacket Zia - is it safe to let you out ? But I'll be around to help, just as soon as I can get these damn cuffs off ! :rolleyez:
AChristianShephard
09-16-09, 01:49 AM
lol goddamn wireless keyboard.
Hold up, Zee is in a straitjacket, and your in handcuffs?
Why am I missing out on all the fun?
a, ot m thre.
Your jut a figur o my imgintion.
Hve you v ha a prop up of nglih Tea Z?
I actually understood most of that, the end of days is near! :)
Night.?
Haha. You could be the figment. I can't be sure.
No, I don't recall that I have.
How was that? Lol! ;)
Are you sure that's just tea you're drinkin, Shep ? But I'm up for another one anyway :)
Errr ummm - re. the straightjacket Zia - is it safe to let you out ? But I'll be around to help, just as soon as I can get these damn cuffs off ! :rolleyez:
Christ on a bike! We're screwed, Ozzy.
You reckon, Zia. I can usually get out of the cuffs, but there's something different today ..........
Hold up, Zee is in a straitjacket, and your in handcuffs?
Why am I missing out on all the fun?
Use you're imagination Shep
AChristianShephard
09-16-09, 02:37 AM
:mad:
TheWatcher
09-16-09, 02:55 AM
Ok I have a question from this episode...maybe you guys can help...
So Eko finds the Bible with the 16mm piece of film spliced out of it...Lockes all freakking out that they found the missing piece and Eko gives him the "no not mistake coincidence for fate" line...
They watch the mising piece and its Candle warning that the computer is to be used only to enter the code. He explains that "while the isolation of Station 3 may tempt one to use the computer to communicate with the outside world, such action would compromise the integrity of the project and may lead to another "incident."
Knowing what we know about the incident...how could that even be possible? So was Candle just plain lying...or is there something else up with that?
...and what was up with that horse?
I mentioned that I did not see anything that resembled an incident but we don't know for sure what the incident is and how many of them occurred. I think that orientation video was made in like the early 80's tho I could be wrong.
TheWatcher
...and what was up with that horse?
I was wondering about this for a long time. Did she have a horse when she was young ? We know she had a motor bike from when she blew up Wayne ! I remember seeing some caps from her house where there was a model of a horse prominently displayed. But of course now I can't find it ! However did this manifest itself as a sort of imaginary friend. Maybe even a protector. And Sawyer saw him too. They appeared to be communicating psychically while he was near death. She was also around him when he had his confrontation with the boar. I think I know where I'm going but I don't know how to get there !
AChristianShephard
09-16-09, 11:06 AM
I think they lost track with that missing splice and it ended up just being a narrative technique to add tension to when Mike talks to Walt, missed opportunity I say, and yet another dead end.
As for the horse, do I know? Neigh.
TheWatcher
09-16-09, 11:53 AM
I remember seeing a photo in Kates house of a horse...and a horse..(same one???) helped her get away from the Marshall.http://ts3.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=1152633937642&id=ab91b9dfa6c9c3c7b13d228c6ba15fbc&url=http%3a%2f%2fgallery.lost-media.com%2falbums%2fep-caps%2fseason2%2f2x09-kate%2f6%2fkate-cap569.jpg (http://gallery.lost-media.com/albums/ep-caps/season2/2x09-kate/6/kate-cap569.jpg) http://z.about.com/d/lost/1/G/f/1/-/-/Kate-and-Marshal.jpg
Could be some kind of protector but then that opens all kinds of doors as to why she has a protector.
http://ts4.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=1213329383127&id=180ce9c9548ed6056b88084cb0077659&url=http%3a%2f%2fgallery.lost-media.com%2falbums%2fep-caps%2fseason2%2f2x09-kate%2f10%2fnormal_kate-cap932.jpghttp://ts3.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=1021292582290&id=74524515b2ae877253a3956885219fcb&url=http%3a%2f%2fncjl.files.wordpress.com%2f2008%2 f09%2f209-kates-horse-01.jpg%3fw%3d300%26h%3d169
http://ts2.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=1021623735697&id=60d2a078a57d5d392db34bbaca1f0bef&url=http%3a%2f%2fncjl.files.wordpress.com%2f2008%2 f09%2f209-kates-horse-02.jpg Yep...Sawyer saw it. Looks the same.
Why would someone go to the trouble to do this...http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/lostpedia/images/thumb/9/95/2x09_locke_bible.JPG/180px-2x09_locke_bible.JPG (http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/File:2x09_locke_bible.JPG) for what wasd on that piece of film?
...and just when you think its over... http://chud.com/articles/content_images/30/lostrewatch3_06.jpg
That's it, a photo ! It would appear that Kate may have been the one who needed to be protected from, if step-daddy was to be believed. According to him she has murder in her heart. And he loved her ! And her mother was scared of her and Tom, although they were best friends, was wary of her. I know in the early days there were discussions about Kate being a sociopath.
TheWatcher
09-16-09, 12:25 PM
That's it, a photo ! It would appear that Kate may have been the one who needed to be protected from, if step-daddy was to be believed. According to him she has murder in her heart. And he loved her ! And her mother was scared of her and Tom, although they were best friends, was wary of her. I know in the early days there were discussions about Kate being a sociopath.
http://chud.com/articles/content_images/30/lostrewatch3_03.jpg
Sawyer: “You killed me. Why did you kill me?”
Was this Wayne ? or was it all in her head??
TheWatcher
09-16-09, 12:28 PM
That's it, a photo ! It would appear that Kate may have been the one who needed to be protected from, if step-daddy was to be believed. According to him she has murder in her heart. And he loved her ! And her mother was scared of her and Tom, although they were best friends, was wary of her. I know in the early days there were discussions about Kate being a sociopath.
The photo was of a young girl riding a horse..I remember it but I cant find it..
http://www.lostvirtualtour.com/lost/screens/2x09WhatKateDid/whatkatedid09_thumb.jpg (http://www.lostvirtualtour.com/lost/screens/2x09WhatKateDid/whatkatedid09.jpg)
It was around here somewhere on the walk to the bedroom.
And her mother was scared of her and Tom, although they were best friends, was wary of her. I know in the early days there were discussions about Kate being a sociopath.
Is that true? I don't remember any of that. Why would Kate's Mom be afraid of Tom and Kate? When Kate was with the Marshall, he specifically said that she was a country girl, never been in any kind of trouble in her life...why now? So, I just assumed that night was the final straw, and she LOST control and torched the house completely out of the blue...
TheWatcher
09-16-09, 01:35 PM
Is that true? I don't remember any of that. Why would Kate's Mom be afraid of Tom and Kate? When Kate was with the Marshall, he specifically said that she was a country girl, never been in any kind of trouble in her life...why now? So, I just assumed that night was the final straw, and she LOST control and torched the house completely out of the blue...
http://ts2.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=1111803172053&id=c1afca2cabb607660ffe7029b43b87a9&url=http%3a%2f%2fz.about.com%2fd%2flost%2f1%2f0%2f Z%2f9%2f-%2f-%2fmom-hug.jpgKates mother freaked out when Kate came to see her but that was after the fact...when she was in the hospital...The oddball thing was the remark from Kates stepfather...the "I don't have murder in my heart" comment...http://ts2.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=1116694386433&id=ca2949d9d1d2789897a2504c8e57a133&url=http%3a%2f%2fimages3.wikia.nocookie.net%2flost pedia%2fimages%2fthumb%2fc%2fce%2f2x09_Kate_Sam.jp g%2f250px-2x09_Kate_Sam.http://ts1.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=1158517228316&id=a1354649b3a09480e66220163e761f0e&url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.lost-naufragiatii.com%2fepisoade%2fimg_episoade_s2%2fs2 e9_500x250.jpg
She made the Marshall crazy didn't she? There is a Captain Ahab thing going on there...
http://ts3.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=952726651862&id=e88e1b800306e512c5cb5a215c24843c&url=http%3a%2f%2fimages4.wikia.nocookie.net%2flost pedia%2ffr%2fimages%2fthumb%2f7%2f71%2f2X09_Kate_M arshal.jpg%2f210px-2X09_Kahttp://ts3.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=988218794150&id=4f9508d65f1deed7f2d1da2b446247f4&url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.lost-romania.com%2fuserfiles%2f09whatkatedid-promo03.jpghttp://ts4.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=1171074524771&id=087a2623326e72403bec621456775333&url=http%3a%2f%2flost.abc.starcut.us%2finf%2fimgc% 3fdev%3d282%26url%3dhttp%3a%2f%2fabc.go.com%2fmedi a%2fprimetime%2fLost%2fimages%2fseason
Kates Miss Understood
LOL@ miss understood.
I know Kate's Mom was freaked after Kate killed her 'awesome' abusive, drunk ass boyfriend because obviously he was such a keeper, and Kate was clearly a complete and utter lunatic to try to protect her from being beaten constantly. Lol!
TheWatcher
09-16-09, 01:59 PM
LOL@ miss understood.
I know Kate's Mom was freaked after Kate killed her 'awesome' abusive, drunk ass boyfriend because obviously he was such a keeper, and Kate was clearly a complete and utter lunatic to try to protect her from being beaten constantly. Lol!
Can't see why she would want to get rid of him...such a prize..
http://z.about.com/d/lost/1/G/j/1/-/-/Wayne.jpg
"heaaa..whooo yooouu ca callin abbusssive...dumb asss,... honey..why why don't ya come over over here and take off m myy booots.":nanabobo:
http://www.lostvirtualtour.com/lost/screens/2x09WhatKateDid/whatkatedid12_thumb.jpg (http://www.lostvirtualtour.com/lost/screens/2x09WhatKateDid/whatkatedid12.jpg)
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I personally think Kates character is one of the most intresting and missunderstood. She has taken alot of flack because of the triangle but my best guess is she turns it around this last season and ends up kind of a hero.
http://ts3.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=1255720358166&id=53a3c7c8a1adc856ce0a50182ed7c9ed&url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.perdidoslaserie.com%2fwp-content%2fuploads%2f2008%2f05%2fkate.jpg "thanks"
http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/customavatars/avatar3314_4.gif (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/member.php?u=3314) "don't let me down."
Oh LOL! I know. Hitting on her daughter and everything. Mmm...classy! ;)
KEEPER! LMAO!~
TheWatcher
09-16-09, 02:08 PM
[QUOTE=ZIA;2780291]Oh LOL! I know. Hitting on her daughter and everything. Mmm...classy! ;)
KEEPER! LMAO!~[/QUOTE
http://www.lostvirtualtour.com/lost/screens/2x09WhatKateDid/whatkatedid_blow-up2_thumb.jpg (http://www.lostvirtualtour.com/lost/screens/2x09WhatKateDid/whatkatedid_blow-up2.jpg)
See ya Wayne
I'm surprised she wasn't dancing around it as it burned to the ground! LOL! :)
TheWatcher
09-16-09, 03:32 PM
I'm surprised she wasn't dancing around it as it burned to the ground! LOL! :)
http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss294/sparksmarco/EvangelineKate.jpg
She was!
I thought Kate told Sawyer that the horse was hers. btw Wayne would not have lasted that long in my world. Also mom was a $1.10 short of a $1.00 imnsho.
Kate said she knows the horse because she'd seen it before when the Marshall crashed his car in the rain.
Is that true? I don't remember any of that. Why would Kate's Mom be afraid of Tom and Kate? When Kate was with the Marshall, he specifically said that she was a country girl, never been in any kind of trouble in her life...why now? So, I just assumed that night was the final straw, and she LOST control and torched the house completely out of the blue...
Sorry Zia - I don't think Kate's Mom was afraid of Kate and Tom - my punctuation may have been off there ! Or my brain. But once she realized what Kate was capable of, i.e. blowing up Wayne and her house, the caution set in. Strangely Dianne appeared to really have feelings for Wayne - hard to believe, particularly if he had been innappropriate with Kate, but as she said , you can't always chose the one you love.
And I remember the Marshall saying that she was just a harmless country girl, but I also remember him saying, when going through Customs in Sydney and showing the Haliburton case with the guns in it, Kate was struggling to get away and he said that she was the reason he needed the guns.
But when Kate was looking after Sawyer and she told him that every time she looked at Sawyer she saw Wayne, well, that was the last straw !
And I still think that Wayne may have been channelling through Sawyer - "Why did you kill me ?" Sawyer is absolutely NOTHING like Wayne :mad:
And I still think that Wayne may have been channelling through Sawyer - "Why did you kill me ?" Sawyer is absolutely NOTHING like Wayne :mad:
Oh absolutely. I thought it was a given on that topic. It was too blatantly obvious to be coincidental, and since Kate didn't kill Sawyer, it makes the most sense, not to mention that his voice and mannerisms changed to be completely different than usual.
But also I think that Kate may have had some kind of influence on the Sawyer/Wayne connection as well. Jack was the hero, Army Dad, Sawyer was the villain, Wayne, and Sawyer picked up on this, thus opening up the way for Wayne to communicate through him, even though he was actually nothing like him. It was really weird, the way Sawyer all of a sudden woke up from the brink of death, saying "Well ain't that the sweetest thing I ever heard" and they both walk out of the hatch to see the black horse.
"Am I in a bunk bed?" Lol. ;)
Well yeah, Wayne would need a host to speak through, either someone willing to act as a medium or maybe a delerious semi-conscious person, like Sawyer was at the time. Who knows?
TheWatcher
09-17-09, 02:52 AM
Funny how that horse caused the car accident that allowed Kate to escape...That was years before...So was it protecting her? Did anyone else have such protection? Wonder if its associated with Jacobs touch in any way.
At first I thought the horse may be protecting Kate from herself - her headstrong actions, or was he just trying to keep her safe ?
There have been a few instances of animals seemingly communicating in some way with humans. Vincent was given to Walt at an appropriate time to come to the island to comfort him after the loss of his mother. When Walt got on to the raft Vincent dived into the water barking furiously - he did not want Walt to go, and he was right. Before he left Walt gave Vincent to Shannon. He said Vincent would look after her and would comfort her for the loss of Boone. But when Anal turned up Shannon was right in the line of fire, and Vincent failed to protect her. Maybe someone or something had enticed him away.
Then there was Sawyer and the boar. The boar had always signified the death of his folks, to Sawyer - in his dreams it personified his father when he was hiding under the bed with that pool of blood slowly drawing nearer to him. He had that dream on the island, and then the boar came and ransacked his tent, stealing his blanket, thus encouraging Sawyer to follow him - teasing him.
"It'll all come back around". The dying words from the Shrimp guy, words which seemed to relate to the boar. Oddly, the boar seemed to bear no malice against Sawyer - it was toying with him, it knocked him over in the wallow, and covered him in mud, and Kate had a good laugh at his expense, but he wasn't hurt. Maybe it was also trying to teach him a lesson.
When he finally came face to face with it, it just stared at him for a moment, and then walked away. Sawyer came to the conclusion that it was "just a boar". There was no more mention of Mr. Boar - Sawyer had faced his demon and won.
Not so with the poor old tree frog. Sawyer and Hurley chased it through the jungle - yeah, right - and he squished it, right in front of a horrified Hurley. Huh !
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