View Full Version : LOST Hiatus Rewatch #3 (08/19/09-08/25/09)-S2E13: The Long Con
This is the discussion thread for the LOST-TV Hiatus Rewatch - Season 2 Episode 13 , "The Long Con"
Written by : Steven Maeda & Leonard Dick
The original (or as close to original as exists) thread for this episode can be found here (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14276).
General questions about the LOST-TV Hiatus Rewatch can be posted in the LOST-TV Hiatus Rewatch thread (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37370).
Episode Description:
Sawyer gains possession of the guns with Charlie's help.
This episode was one of my least favorites.
Sawyer was scamming a long con on the Losties, proving "it's all in the details." How did he think of this? It was elaborate. What if Kate didn't ask him to go warn Locke? The glory of television! LOL :)
In the end though, I think it was a smart idea. Locke and Jack were just butting heads over everything at this point (and it was annoying.) It was starting to seem as if they disagreed on everything, just to disagree!
I loved the scene with Hurley and Sayid at the beach listening to Moonlight Serenade. I really wished I was on the beach doing the exact same thing. LOL
11Rooster11
10-12-07, 02:46 AM
Zia Sorry I skipped ahead a little.:) For some reason I feel like this one has been discussed alot. Also I remember rewatching this episode a little while back. I really don't have that much to add. But I do have a few thoughts...
I assume that it was Kate's mom that was serving Sawyer and his partner in the diner.
What is the point of saying those things to his partner anyway? From the game of "I never" we are to believe that Sawyer has never been in love. Yet he acts as if he's fallen for Cassidy. I fail to see the benefit to this strategy. Plus he does turn around right away and rob her blind. So why have that conversation?
More Jack stupidity:DeadHorse:
I don't think I need to get into the whole Charlie thing :DeadHorse:
I wanted to skip it. LOL
It was Kate's Mom at the diner, and you're right why bother with that entire conversation with Hobbs anyway?
ITA ZIA I was looking forward to it because it was a Sawyer ep., and then found out that the whole cast, with the possible exception of Hurley and Sayid, were totally made to look ridiculous, stupid or weak.
Jack and Locke are really starting to go at each other. Their inventory of the guns (the ones they haven't managed to lose yet !) was almost funny. Locke's comment "Jack, I'm grateful that you decided to keep them all in the same place" had me totally flummoxed. It was such a grovelling line, was it tongue in cheek or for real !
Sawyer gives Charlie a hard time about being turfed out of his tent by Claire and Charlie gets his own back by informing Sawyer that Jack is ransacking his tent. Sawyer really had no right to have all that stuff but it p..... me off too, to see Jack just barging in there and taking it.
Sawyer teaching Cassidy to con was I think the blind leading the blind. He was really not a good con, too emotional - he seemed to end up in a lot of trouble.
Taking the guns was, however, a clever con, and I can see why Sawyer wanted them (to get back at Jack) and why Charlie was willing to help (to get back at Locke). What happened to the new sherriff in town ? Well we couldn't have "you know who" being upstaged, could we ? I think Sawyer and Charlie got off very lightly over their despicable trick with Sun.
Sawyer basically did the wrong thing by just about everyone, but at least he acknowledged the fact. "I'm not a good person, Charlie, never have been." Thats a sad thing to have to admit to.
At least Jack was prepared to wait for Sun to regain consciouslness so he could ask her some questions, before he went blasting off into the jungle with all guns blazing !
Anyway this was a really low point for nearly everyone, and things are only going to get worse for some of them, Sawyer and Charlie I'm looking at you ! The character assassination was really starting to set in, but even Jack didn't come out of it that well. I suppose it has to get worse before it gets better.
uwdaveh
10-12-07, 07:33 PM
This one is one of my least fav episodes of season 2. Just don't like the storyline in this one.
Black Manta
10-12-07, 08:20 PM
I liked this episode. Well the non-FB parts. I think Locke and Jack needed to be taken down a peg or two.
Agreed. I do think it was a good decision on Sawyer's part. I was sick of Locke and Jack's bickering a long time ago...
abcdxyz
10-13-07, 12:42 AM
Actually, I liked this ep, especially compared to some that are a LOT dumber--Expose, Fire + Water (Lord, after Fire + Water, anything would look intelligent!), Stranger in a Strange Land . . .
My take was that Sawyer did think he was in love with Cassidy, and that Gordy's lecture about the tiger not changing its stripes brought him to his senses. But it PO'd him so that he got revenge on Gordy by conning Cassidy out of the $$ and then also conned Gordy out of his share.
The alternative, of course, is that his whole "in love" thing was totally fake and that he was deliberately conning Cassidy and Gordy with it from the beginning. After all, if he can get $600,000 from Cassidy, why should he share it with Gordy?
I don't know who Kate is to be so shocked, shocked by Sawyer scamming them all. After all, Kate will lie and con with the best of them. What about her bank job in Whatever the Case May Be?
When I said Sawyer was not a good con, he has an excellent brain and a talent for manipulation, but quite often his emotions get in the way. A good con must have no emotions whatsoever, or feelings. Sawyer has. I think he did love Cassidy,abcdxyz, but because he believes that "a tiger don't change his stripes" well whats the point. He sure is complex. He loves Kate but has no problem double crossing her either. She ends up all injured and wide eyed innocence, when she would not hesitate to do the same thing if necessary. I think this is all part of Sawyer's self hate. After all "you always hurt the one you love." So far we've had Cassidy and Kate, but he does it to Hurley with the frog, and when Michael and Jin were helping him on the raft he sure let them know what he thought of them. He actually reminds me of a little kid who pushes people's buttons just to let them know that they "aren't the boss of him". Well sort of, I'm not sure how to explain it ! But I really don't think he's malicious, whereas Jack does have a nasty petulant streak in him - Kate, Charlie, Locke, Sayid, Sawyer etc. can all attest to that. And wait until Ben arrives on the scene - actually I think "bully" is a good word for Jack ! As long as he doesn't have to do the dirty work. I think I've said it before, but Sawyer has a certain honesty about him.
I liked this episode too. It gave us a look at Sawyer's background and told us more about his character. His actions on the island were imho not parallel to the flashback. In the fb, no one was hurt (physically). On the island,a pregnant woman is hurt and distressed. It was interesting, though, when we discover in a later episode about Cassidy's pregnancy. When I watched this the first time, I thought this does not bode well for Sawyer. I did enjoy the scene when he comes out and says "There's a new sheriff in town." The man does love to make people hate him.
As far as Locke and Jack arguing, I think Locke should have stepped back. He designated Jack the leader; said all the other losties looked to him as a leader. So why did not then let him lead and interfere so much? Also it led to him playing into Ben's manipulations.
The scene on the beach with Moonlight Serenade playing was so beautiful, as someone said earlier. It truly did make you want to be there. That scene also gave us our first hint about time travel/alternate universe, unless it was just a wink at the fans.
The scene on the beach with Moonlight Serenade playing was so beautiful, as someone said earlier. It truly did make you want to be there. That scene also gave us our first hint about time travel/alternate universe, unless it was just a wink at the fans.
It was me. I so wanted to be on that beach watching the stars too. LOL
I was positive it was a wink at the fans because Hurley said, "Dude, I'm just kidding." but that was before Desmond and his powers showed up. :D
So, as usual, who the Hell knows?
abcdxyz
10-14-07, 01:25 PM
On the island,a pregnant woman is hurt and distressed.
To be fair to Charlie and Sawyer, neither Sun nor any of the rest of us knew that Sun was pregnant at that point, although Sun may have suspected it. She didn't take the pregnancy test until The Whole Truth, which is two eps later.
I think what I don't like about Sawyer's power play here is that it doesn't come to anything in the end. He gives the guns up later in the season, and that's the end of it. I guess what we're seeing is that the group dissolves into internal power struggles until there's an external enemy to oppose.
SAWYER: You're pretty scared, huh? Scared, you understand scared, don't you? Huh? [Sawyer pushes Jin down.] If you ain't, you're going to be, Bruce. Folks down on the beach might have been doctors and accountants a month ago, but it's Lord of the Flies time, now. (S1E17)
Sawyer's acknowledgment that "it's Lord of the Flies time" is in direct opposition to Jack's insistence that if they don't "live together they're going to die alone." One of the main dynamics of the series is the push-pull between the individual power struggles and the need to live together.
ozchick
10-14-07, 07:57 PM
I do like this episode, and not just because it contains several shirtless Sawyer scenes. ;) It shows Sawyer is not a stupid hick. He actually has the smarts, even if he uses them in the wrong way. Yes, there's some suspension of disbelief going on, but I'm willing to buy it.
There are several very funny lines in this ep:
Hurley to Sayid: Are you going to put the lime in the coconut and drink them both up?
Sawyer to Jack: Just a minute, I've almost got the high score on Donkey Kong.
Another instance of a Vincent sighting followed by rain. :D
The scene on the beach with Moonlight Serenade playing was so beautiful, as someone said earlier. It truly did make you want to be there. That scene also gave us our first hint about time travel/alternate universe, unless it was just a wink at the fans.
It was me. I so wanted to be on that beach watching the stars too. LOL
I was positive it was a wink at the fans because Hurley said, "Dude, I'm just kidding." but that was before Desmond and his powers showed up. :D
So, as usual, who the Hell knows?
One thing about the Moonlight Serenade scene. It has been featured in every single "recrap" that has happened since this episode aired. Not the whole scene, but the song, and Sayid saying "it could come from anyplace" and Hurley saying "or any time." I know ABC does the stupid hype promos, but I believe TPTB create the recap episodes. Why do they keep reminding us of this scene?
Sawyer nicknames (lots since this was his FB ep):
Doc: Jack
Gorgeous: Cassidy
Jacko: Jack
Analulu: Ana Lucia
Freckles: Kate
Sheena: Kate
Dimples: Cassidy
Baby: Cassidy
Tokyo Rose: Sun
Hoss: Locke
abcdxyz
10-15-07, 12:49 AM
One thing about the Moonlight Serenade scene. It has been featured in every single "recrap" that has happened since this episode aired. Not the whole scene, but the song, and Sayid saying "it could come from anyplace" and Hurley saying "or any time." I know ABC does the stupid hype promos, but I believe TPTB create the recap episodes. Why do they keep reminding us of this scene?
I've thought for quite a while that they're trying to tell us something, ozchick. Is it that the island isn't really in "our" time? Is it that time is somehow permeable on the island and that we can expect things from other times to show up, like "Moonlight Serenade" does?
It has to be important, because of the way TPTB stress it.
Darkrogue
10-15-07, 03:32 AM
Hmm, I don’t know. I found the Moonlight Serenade scene to be quite creepy. There was something very Stanley Kubrick’s The Shining about it. There is something completely haunting and freaky about that eerie music, and it gives me the willies. It sounds almost haunting, like something completely lost to time, and it did seem an odd choice for music there.
Great scene, though! I’d like to think there is a higher significance to it. After all, the song itself has been repeated at least once (in another flashback—I forget which).
I think what I don't like about Sawyer's power play here is that it doesn't come to anything in the end. He gives the guns up later in the season, and that's the end of it.
Yes. And therein lies my issue with it as well. It feels like a random plot device that never amounts to anything, somewhat like Charlie’s visions; he had visions not because they were a character-related connection to the overall story, not because Aaron was in any actual danger, but because the writers thought it would be “cool”. Same goes for the whole Dark Charlie concept, which had potential but was never allowed to evolve into anything. There is no real, character-driven story behind the character actions. It seems here like they wanted to get the guns away from Locke and Jack and used Sawyer to do it.
That’s the problem with the story overall, at least in terms of the characters. The story/plot of Lost, instead of flowing organically from character motivation and development, instead dictates character actions. That can lead to some very messy characterization.
Just like they used F&W to character-assassinate Charlie, they used TLC to character-assassinate Sawyer (and they continued to murder Charlie in this one as well). Ugh.
Like a couple of you have mentioned, even though I thought their using Sun to accomplish their goals was despicable, in a way I too found it a little satisfying to see Locke and Jack have the rug pulled out from under them. Even if Sawyer had no real motivation (or apparently long-term goals, either). Just the same, I took a bit of smug satisfaction from that scene. (I think I may have even laughed out loud the first time I saw it.) And ozanna, I really don’t blame Charlie either for wanting revenge; Locke’s treatment of him would naturally seem like a major betrayal, especially considering all the faith Charlie poured into Locke. To have the man who told him everything happens for a reason not only dismiss his visions but also hurt and humiliate him is probably devastating. After all, Charlie once claimed Locke to be the one person he would put his absolute faith in to save them.
Basically, while I don't disapprove of the outcome of Sawyer and Charlie's con, my main issue with their actions would be their involvement/endangerment of an innocent third party (Sun). Even though no one knew she was pregnant, she still could have been much more seriously hurt. Charlie's just like the typical dumb sidekick, bungling the task. Honestly, did he not consider that she just might actually struggle, and that she might get hurt in the process? Derp. :dunce:
Also, ozanna: LOL I always thought Sawyer was really a bungling con artist as well—not necessarily in his methods (he’s very clever), but in his tendency to get emotionally involved. He allows himself to trip up, and in some cases, he even abandons his job, like we saw in Confidence Man. (I always suspected that one must have got him in considerable trouble, considering the threats he received from Kilo.)
With the character assassinations - there's mooooore !!! Just wait for the next few episodes !:D :rolleyez: What are they doing to just about everyone. ITA Darkrogue I loved seeing Jack and Locke with that totally dumb look on their faces. Sawyer actually did achieve something just by pulling the rug out from under their feet. Love seeing that really stupid look on Jack's face ! He does it so well !:D
Now I have got a real bee in my bonnet about Glen Miller ! Hurley mentioned the Lime and the Coconut before they heard the "Moonlight Serenade" (I love Glen Miller's music), almost as if his mention of it summoned it up out of the atmosphere. Something to do with the radio maybe. Now I certainly don't think this is anything to do with limbo, and I would never mention the "P" word ! But Glenn Miller died in a plane crash in the Atlantic Ocean, incidentally it was on the 15th December. Maybe this island is in some sort of time or space portal (don't forget the polar bear). Maybe his music is like a memory from the past, because Glenn Miller was never found, and was never finally put to rest. His spirit lingers on. I don't think this necessarily means that everyone on the island is dead, but that they are in some kind of "fractured" state until somehow they can escape or be released. Maybe someone cleverer than me can come up with something better, because I'm sure there is something in this time travel, space travel, whatever.
One thing about the Moonlight Serenade scene. It has been featured in every single "recrap" that has happened since this episode aired. Not the whole scene, but the song, and Sayid saying "it could come from anyplace" and Hurley saying "or any time." I know ABC does the stupid hype promos, but I believe TPTB create the recap episodes. Why do they keep reminding us of this scene?
Hey Ozchick!
Do they really? I guess I didn't notice. I remember when it first aired and TPTB vehemently denied that the scene meant anything, but after Desmonds' powers were revealed I had issues whith them stating it meant nothing.
Hmm, I don’t know. I found the Moonlight Serenade scene to be quite creepy. There was something very Stanley Kubrick’s The Shining about it. There is something completely haunting and freaky about that eerie music, and it gives me the willies. It sounds almost haunting, like something completely lost to time, and it did seem an odd choice for music there.
Darkrogue-I love Stanley Kubrick...and The Shining. I'll have to watch that movie soon since it's almost Halloween. :D
Locke 'n' Load
10-15-07, 05:06 AM
The scene on the beach with Moonlight Serenade playing was so beautiful, as someone said earlier. It truly did make you want to be there. That scene also gave us our first hint about time travel/alternate universe, unless it was just a wink at the fans.
Hmm, I don’t know. I found the Moonlight Serenade scene to be quite creepy. There was something very Stanley Kubrick’s The Shining about it. There is something completely haunting and freaky about that eerie music, and it gives me the willies. It sounds almost haunting, like something completely lost to time, and it did seem an odd choice for music there.
The Moonlight Serenade scene reminded me of the movie Frequency (although that was a ham radio and this was a radio station playing music). But it is the time aspect of it that brings it to mind. It is easy (for me) to believe that radio station is playing that song (a modern song) in real time, that somehow the two time periods are connected on the island.
The alternative, of course, is that his whole "in love" thing was totally fake and that he was deliberately conning Cassidy and Gordy with it from the beginning.
I think he did love Cassidy,abcdxyz, but because he believes that "a tiger don't change his stripes" well whats the point.
I don’t believe Sawyer loved Cassidy. He cared for her but the con was more important to him. That’s what he loves…the pursuit and the victory of the con. However, this one made him think and regret how he hurt her (I wonder which one came first, the one in Confidence Man or the one with Cassidy?). The look on his face when he told her he loved her had me fooled; I really believed it (Oh, those eyes!) But he had the whole thing planned from the start and no amount of affection for Cassidy was going to change that.
Why do you suppose Locke took the statues with the heroin when he hid the guns?
GardenMom
10-15-07, 05:56 AM
But it is the time aspect of it that brings it to mind. It is easy (for me) to believe that radio station is playing that song (a modern song) in real time, that somehow the two time periods are connected on the island.
I believe we could hear the radio station announcer mention the call letters of the station when Moonlight Serenade played, and it was only 3 letters long. Radio stations did not change to the 4 letters that they use today until during or just after WWII. So if it was only three letters, than the broadcast they heard WAS from the past.
I don’t believe Sawyer loved Cassidy. He cared for her but the con was more important to him. That’s what he loves…the pursuit and the victory of the con. However, this one made him think and regret how he hurt her (I wonder which one came first, the one in Confidence Man or the one with Cassidy?). The look on his face when he told her he loved her had me fooled; I really believed it (Oh, those eyes!) But he had the whole thing planned from the start and no amount of affection for Cassidy was going to change that.
On the contrary, I believe Sawyer DID love Cassidy. She was a woman who didn't despise him for his con artist ways - she willingly wanted to join him. That may have been a first for Sawyer - a woman who still could love him even after knowing what type of rogue he was. I have speculated in other re-watch threads that Sawyer may very well have followed Cassidy to Iowa to join up with her again. I think he was the fugitive out of Florida that Kate's husband alluded to (the "I Do" episode I think). I think his feelings for Cassidy also are evident in the fact that he placed all the money he earned in the prison scam in an account for his/Cassidy's daughter. That's not the action of a man only focused on personal gain from his cons.
I believe we could hear the radio station announcer mention the call letters of the station when Moonlight Serenade played, and it was only 3 letters long. Radio stations did not change to the 4 letters that they use today until during or just after WWII. So if it was only three letters, than the broadcast they heard WAS from the past.
I tried to pay attention to what the DJ said, but I'll watch it again tomorrow. That's a very good observation.
ozchick
10-15-07, 05:12 PM
I believe we could hear the radio station announcer mention the call letters of the station when Moonlight Serenade played, and it was only 3 letters long. Radio stations did not change to the 4 letters that they use today until during or just after WWII. So if it was only three letters, than the broadcast they heard WAS from the past.
I tried to hear the call letters, but all I got was the W at the beginning, which puts it east of the Mississippi.
From the transcript (http://losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15450) for "The Long Con":
SAYID: It's Rousseau's signal.
HURLEY: Oh, crap.
SAYID [changing the dial]: But this radio has a wider bandwidth.
HURLEY: Hold it, stop! Do you hear that!
RADIO [with spotty reception]: That was the old classic Just A-Sittin' and A-Rockin' by Duke Ellington and his Orchestra, featuring Cootie Williams on the trumpet. Up next on WXR, the Glenn Miller Orchestra with Moonlight Serenade.
[The song begins to play with good reception.]
HURLEY: Whoa, you hear how clear that is? It's got to be close, right?
SAYID: Radio waves at this frequency bounce off the ionosphere. They can travel thousands of miles. It could be coming from anywhere.
HURLEY: Or, anytime. Just kidding, dude.
It was "WXR".
Re the radio station: Whooaa dude, as Hurley would say.
I liked this episode and I think Sawyer had every reason to join with Charlie to knock Locke and Jack down a few pegs. Sawyer told him not to take his stuff, and he did it anyway. And Charlie's reasons have been discussed. Maybe it wasn't a great move for the group as a whole, but, why are Jack and Locke in charge of the guns? Sawyer did it to show he is smart too. The problem I have is that Locke would have heard or seen Charlie following him based on what we've seen so far.
Locke 'n' Load
10-16-07, 03:07 AM
On the contrary, I believe Sawyer DID love Cassidy. She was a woman who didn't despise him for his con artist ways - she willingly wanted to join him. That may have been a first for Sawyer - a woman who still could love him even after knowing what type of rogue he was. I have speculated in other re-watch threads that Sawyer may very well have followed Cassidy to Iowa to join up with her again. I think he was the fugitive out of Florida that Kate's husband alluded to (the "I Do" episode I think). I think his feelings for Cassidy also are evident in the fact that he placed all the money he earned in the prison scam in an account for his/Cassidy's daughter. That's not the action of a man only focused on personal gain from his cons.
Thanks, GardenMom, for your point of view. I can understand how you and others may feel that way. However, I still do not believe Sawyer “loved” Cassidy. Yes, he felt something for her, perhaps a very strong affection, but IMHO it was not love. Love puts he other person above oneself. Sawyer did not put Cassidy first. Love is proved by one’s actions. Sawyer’s words to Gordy and to Cassidy were that he loved her, but his actions proved otherwise. Yes, I admit, he felt regret at what he did to her, but he still went though with his plan. Yes, he showed that he was a responsible person in setting up the account for his daughter, but that doesn’t mean that he loved Cassidy. Also, while playing “I never” with Kate, he admitted to never being in love. I’m not trying to convince you or anyone else; I’m just adding my 2 cents worth to the discussion. The nature of the forum is that we agree to disagree. LnL
I do agree that he does not con for personal gain per se. Like I mentioned in my earlier post, he does it for the pursuit and victory of the con. He likes to live by his wits. It was noble of him to put that money in trust for his child, but even that scam he did for reasons other than the cash.
The problem I have is that Locke would have heard or seen Charlie following him based on what we've seen so far.
You're so right, catnap. There is no way Locke could have been followed without him knowing about it. This is just another example of the way the writers are causing our Lost characters to self-destruct in their lame plot.
From the transcript (http://losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15450) for "The Long Con":
It was "WXR".
Brian! :D Thank you for saving me from watching it...again! :awwhug:
sweetsunray
12-30-07, 06:50 AM
ALthough I still have to rewatch this epi, I must already point out to Darkrogue that Charlie's dreams in Fire + Water weren't pointless... certainly not once you watched the S3 finale... The dreams nicely predict what talent is necessary to get them all out of there (his musical talent), also pre-shadows "butchers" coming to the island (that's imo what the dream-dad represents), and that he will be required to swim. They weren't put in there just because of the "cool" effect.
sweetsunray
01-02-08, 01:59 AM
Ok, finally rewatched this one... I actually like this epi a lot for its shocking darkness. And it's perhaps one of the few Sawyerbacks that I like. This epi is full of character shock value. I felt like Kate the first time I ever watched it... had started to see Sawyer as a decent and basically good man, and all of a sudden he shows us all not to underestimate his badassness.
I do groan at the first image of Sawyer's fb: again a con, again a woman in bed, which I find quite boring and cheap anyway.
Now, after the rewatch I don't agree with Kate anymore: that Sawyer does it to make people hate him... I think he does it because he wants people to consider him, take him into account, not underestimate him... he wants to carve a space for himself in the community where they will not walk over him, where they will respect him somehow.
It's notable that all the people Sawyer played on his beach con were the people involved on that hunting trip for Michael: Jack, Locke and Kate. And he had in his eyes motivations towards all three of them, a different one for each one.
First and foremost Jack:
The first question is why Sawyer keeps the pills from the hatch for himself? Originally Jack gathered all the medicine from the crash scene in S1. Even in Sawyer's (greedy) mind that would make Jack the owner of the medicine no matter what, and it makes perfect sense for Jack to be the keeper of the medicine. After his gunshot wound Sawyer needed to take antibiotics, which he needed to fetch from Jack. That means that made Sawyer dependable from Jack, his moods, several times a day in order to remain healthy.
Originally, Sawyer might have been uncomfortable with that idea, but he though that Jack and him had some understanding, had some level of respect towards each other, that they could exchange emotional stuff.
Sawyer learned in THP that he was wrong about that, since Jack acted cynical and dismissive towards him when he asked Jack about his behaviour towards Kate, plus Jack also showed distrust for Sawyer's reasons of wanting to help find Michael.
So, after noticing that Jack seems to think he can dismiss Sawyer like that, I doubt he looked forward to the doctor visits and so decided to take the medicine and use them until he could stop his treatment. He might even have considered giving the pills back at the end, originally. Anyway, for me the reason Sawyer kept those pills was to avoid doctor visits.
Secondly Locke:
Locke showed too much interest in Sawyer's name, and Sawyer surely didn't like that one bit.
Thirdly Kate:
Sawyer backed her up when Jack gave her the cold shoulder, but she ignored his sympathies. She too was dismissive about him.
So, when Jack takes the pills back from Sawyer's tent, thereby breeching Sawyer's sense of territory, he has this high need to reassert his position on the beech and tell all three of them in no uncertain terms that they cannot just dismiss him, or assume he'll be a nice lapdog, and teach Jack a lesson.
Sawyer may have noticed people liked him better, but at the same time they act in a way as if they think he's a loyal dog they can kick around. They don't really appreciate him. They only lost their fear for him.
The only time they did fear him or showed him any type of appreciation and respect was when he owned stuff, when he was the middleman of the stash. And so, the only way in Sawyer's mind to regain a position amongst the Losties is to have a stash again and con those three, hence his con.
What is unclear to me is whether Sawyer has also taken all of Jack's medicine, except for the one Jack took out of his tent. It's not spelled out, but I guess he did based on the fact that Jack plays poker with Sawyer to get all of the medicine stash back. If Sawyer thus took Jack's medicine, then that could only be via Locke who had advized Jack to keep the medicine locked up in the gun room in the hatch. It means that Locke not only moved the guns to a place only he knew about (or so he thought), but that he went and hid the medicine as well. Same goes for the heroin stash. Locke thought it of therapeutical value. Who else has to right to prescribe it but a doctor? So, what's Locke moving it for? It's this idea that gets me angry at Locke. Locke's no doctor and he should not be hiding it from Jack. If he did that, then he's not moving stuff in order to prevent damage, but to get back at Jack on a personal level, to be Jack's boss, etc...
Furthermore Locke becomes an all-time hypocrite imo after this episode. It was Locke who berated Jack for keeping the guns to himself in S1, for not handing them out immediately when Ethan threatened them. Now, Sun is harmed and all of a sudden he uses the exact same arguments Jack used in S1. Already Jack has learned to mend his gun-possession ways by the end of S1 by giving one to Sawyer, to Sayid and both get to keep it for a long while, until trigger happy Ana Lucia. Anyway, in general, Jack has learned to hand a gun to somebody who can handle one when the need arises. This is not a change of heart regarding the handing over of guns overnight.
And in this epi Jack's not planning to hand everyone a gun, just Jin. And I'm sure that if Jack had refused to give a gun to Jin everyone would be pouring accusations over him, because Jin of course would have the right to protect his wife.
But lo and behold, all of a sudden Locke feels he ought to be the sole possessor of the guns. It already grated me at the start of this epi that he even feels the need to berate Jack for asking about the combo: well if Jack's putting those six 9mms in there and also going to keep the medicine there, then damn-right he ought to know the combo!
Locke truly is getting on such a power trip... Certainly with him power corrupts. And that guy dares to crit Jack on his leadership at the start of S3? He's even a worse dictator than Jack is. Jack may be a bully, shouting and all, but at least he doesn't lie, and warns people of what he decides they ought to do. Locke just lies and does things without telling a thing. Quinn is a great actor, and Locke makes for great mystery, but there's little likable about him imo.
As for Jack taking those pills.... He's right to argue that the medicine isn't Sawyer's but everyone's, but he could have just gone to Sawyer directly and explain this and at least ask him to give the pills back once Sawyer's done with his treatment, or give him a stash of pills for the treatment.
This epi shows a lot of analogies with Confidence Man where Sawyer gets tortured:
- someone goes looking through Sawyer's stash, in CM that's Boone and Jack, here it's only Jack.
- Locke puts someone up against Sawyer: in CM he puts Sayid up against Sawyer, here he puts Jack up against Sawyer
- Sawyer gets even: he trashes Boone and gets Kate to kiss him in CM; he cons Jack, Locke and Kate in order to acquire what they're fighting about: control over the guns
- we also get to see Sayid in both episodes, and Sawyer does refer to the torture of CM. In CM Sayid's on a torture trip because of his emotions. Here Sayid is not on the inside of the leader team anymore, and taking out his anger (whether for not being included anymore or Shannon's death) on coconuts.
- in both epis Sawyer has an arm wound: in CM Sayid's knife in his right arm, in this one he's finishing his treatment for his bullet wound in his left arm... there's a very interesting reversal here though. In CM he acquires the wound, in this epi he heals (I take it that when he leaves the pills with Jack at the end after taking a pill, it is also his last pill, and thus the end of the antibiotics treatment). And where Sawyer was the one tortured, the loser of the power play so to speak, he now ends on top of the game and wins.
-> In a bigger story-arc pov one could argue that here Sawyer decided to pay Locke and Jack back for the torture in S1: Locke put Sayid up against Sawyer, Jack never excused himself for supporting Sayid's plan. He didn't need to get back at Sayid because he already had his payback through Danielle, which is why Sayid's kept out of the con picture.
And as I already pointed out, there's a reversal going on between Jack and Locke regarding how to handle the guns.
Saywer's FB
Mirrors: Jane Eris would have a field day with this epi. There are three shots regarding mirror/reversal shots that have great meaning:
1) the bathroom scene: almost the whole of the scene is shot with the camera filming the images in the mirror, first we can see Sawyer before the mirror and at the same see him in the mirror. It's a double image, and thus shows Sawyer being "double-faced". That would be an indicator he's about to con Cassidy. From the moment Cassidy steps out of the shower and proposes to do a long con we can see almost the whole of the conversation as a mirror-image, a reverse image: the one about to be conned is proposing to do a long con, whereas Sawyer argues to not do a long con and drink some mojito's on the beach instead... it's a role reversal.
2) the diner scene: Sawyer's wearing reflective/mirror sunglasses when Gordy comes to sit with him... In other words Sawyer's about to con Gordy, which he does, but he takes his glasses off when he tells Gordy he has feelings for Cassidy, and thus might be telling the truth
3) the car scene with the rearview mirror: the rearview mirror in the car is shown explicitly from behind, and yet we never get to see a reflection shot of Sawyer in that mirror. I take it to mean that we're seeing Sawyer's true face of that time in his life.
How did I do Jane?
Does Sawyer love Cassidy or not: I think he does have romantic feelings for her, but he's a man capable of acting opposite than his feelings. Sometimes people are able to remain very level-headed and calculated, despite their emotions (including even very strong emotions)... they tend to rationalize their emotions or just talk themselves into the believe they don't love a person. And I think that's what Sawyer did with Cassidy. The fact that they can remain level-headed only strengthens that belief. Most of the time when people do that, they're in some dissociative mental state, that is they're broken souls inside who don't dare to feel out of fear to end up hurt. So, they play a trick on themselves where they talk themselves out-of-love. Fractured enough, fearing pain enough, the mind is quite capable of being ahead of the heart. Sawyer would exactly be that kind of a guy to accomplish that.
This opposition is emphasised by the picture he flips at the end: the picture shows him and Cassidy hugging. It's quite similar to the original Desmond-Penny picture: Cassidy has a red shirt on (like Desmond), Sawyer's wearing a white shirt (like the uncast Penny). When Sawyer turns that picture tough he's wearing a full black attire: the opposite color of the shirt on the picture. He's acting opposite to his feelings.
It's an important part of of the FB relating to the island story: Sawyer's in love with Kate, but he greatly fears how she might hurt him if he gives in to it, especially after the events of the Hunting Party. Ironically enough, he's in the same position as Jack was in during the Hunting Party: he wants to distance himself from Kate. Jack did it by shouting at her, bullying her away from him. Sawyer does it by playing her for his con.
LOST Hiatus Rewatch:
Week 13
Weds., August 19th-August 25th 2009
S2: E13: The Long Con
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u34/zia29112/LOST%20Stuff/300px-Lost-season1.jpg
World Walker
08-22-09, 12:09 AM
The title of this episode is very important. The Long Con pertains to so many factors that encompass the show in general. In fact, the entire show is a con. We think it’s going one way, it goes the other. We think a new character will turn out to be important and BOOM, they’re dead. Hell, I believe many of the events we’ve seen throughout the series are part of a gigantic con Jacob is playing on his enemy, MiB. In Season Six, I believe we will see just how the light side (assuming Jacob is not neutral or eeeeevil) will actually win.
Putting all the guns in the hatch was a really strange move. I’m not sure how deeply Jack and Locke considered this decision. The Swan isn’t far from camp, true, but what if something happens in camp? Would they have enough time to go running to the Swan for guns to help? Most likely not, especially if it was the Others who came a-knockin’. Maybe Jack wasn’t worried, though, because of the line Tom had mentioned; their temporary truce, so to speak. Yet, the good doc should know better than to think the Others are the only threat on the Island. Plus leaving the guns all in one place is a risky move period. They just didn’t think it through and therein lays the folly in their decision. :boggled:
Sawyer: “You even got Locke to take a swing at ya. Hell, that’s like getting’ Ghandi to beat his kids.” :rotfl:
Sawyer’s got quite the look in his eye when he’s gunning for somebody. I would be surprised if Jack didn’t feel that gaze as he walked away with the medicine.
I love how Sawyer’s flashback starts. At first, you’re thinking, ‘Wait a minute, now…didn’t I see this before?’ and then you see how it’s different from the first Sawyer flashback. The girl (Cassidy) actually catches Sawyer at his con (even though this turns out to be a larger con that he is pulling on her).
Sawyer: “I lost my damn glasses on the raft.” – That answers my question during an earlier rewatch. RIP cool Season One makeshift glasses…
Sayid really hasn’t been doing much since Shannon died. It’s a shame they didn’t find more for him to do during Season Two. That’s a pattern that I’ve noticed with his character in general. When they use him, they use him hard, and then they back off and he almost becomes background for a time until they use him hard again.
Ana Lucia was testing Jack when she asked him about the combo. She wanted to know whether he’d give it up or hesitate. Now she knows Jack has his own trust issues.
Uh oh, Vincent (the dog of doom!) has come to warn Sun of impending danger. Too bad she didn’t take the hint. Shame on you, Charlie! The hobbit has officially hit rock bottom. The good news is he’ll be on his way back up by the end of the season. Sawyer should also be ashamed of himself for coming up with the idea. He definitely deserved that smack (and more!) Sun gives him in Season Three.
Sawyer’s misdirection was masterful. On my first watch of the episode, he had me believing it was Ana Lucia, especially with the “building an army” motive. I should have known that was too easy!
The Long Con (according to Sawyer): “It works by getting someone to ask you to do somethin’ like it’s their idea, but it’s not their idea, it’s your idea.” – If my theory about Jacob conning MiB is correct, then he actually manipulated MiB into killing him (he sure made no move to defend himself at the moment of truth, either). Considering how old these two would have to be, we’re talking about a very looooong con.
The Hatch was the worst thing that happened to John Locke. For Jack I can excuse a bit of pig-headedness, because that was consistent of his character in Season One. For Season Two Locke, I’m starting to feel quite a bit of contempt. Sawyer’s plan is right in front of the man’s eyes, but he’s completely blind to it. The worst part is that I don’t think the Locke of Season One would have fallen for it. Locke’s fascination of the Hatch and his rivalry with Jack has made him weak. :mad:
That was Kate’s mom serving Sawyer at the diner, wasn’t it?
Sawyer: “You took my stuff.” – This statement reveals that Sawyer has a case of Season Two Regression. If you read my last few Season Two posts, you’ll know that Season Two Regression is a term I use to describe characters that inexplicably lose their post-Season One character development during the second season. In this episode, Sawyer has fallen back on his old habits of hoarding and protecting his stash. Instead of being loved by everyone, which he was on the verge of becoming, he has now conned all the survivors and taken the guns. Later, he will crush the tree frog, whereas in Season One, he let the boar live. All these are examples of this inexplicable regression that Charlie has also fallen victim (see further details in my post in Fire + Water).
Sawyer: “There’s a new sheriff in town, boys!” – An awesome line of foreshadowing for Sawyer’s Jim LaFleur days as sheriff of Dharma. :thumbs_up
Sawyer tells Kate that he cons and she runs. A tiger don’t change his stripes. Jacob would probably beg to differ. Ironically, Sawyer probably makes the most change out of any character on the show. Compare Season One/Two Sawyer to the man who will become the sheriff of the barracks in the seventies. Sawyer does a lot of growing up (which he admits) between now and then; he does a lot of changing. Remember: “It only ends once. Everything before that is just progress.” Sawyer has progressed.
Hurley, in regard to the radio broadcasting the Glen Miller Orchestra: “Or any time. Just kiddin’, dude.” – There’s our huge honking hint from Season Two that we would eventually have time travel on the show. Huge props for the people that correctly drew theories from this. What a really cool, low-key moment. :thumbs_up
Locke has hit rock bottom if Charlie could follow him through the jungle undetected. I know I say this a lot, but there’s no way Season One Locke would have let Charlie follow him around like that. Shameful! :mad:
Following the events of this episode, I’m very glad Charlie and Sawyer were able to develop into better people. This was a very good episode and I feel it had a lot of potential hints for later seasons, as well as hinting the possible con for the end game, mainly regarding MiB and Jacob. :Cheers:
Well it looks like the party's over for Sawyer - no more "everybody loves you now !" In fact there was a general air of disagreement in this episode.
Sawyer has really taken on the role of conflict originator. He has a wonderfully manipulative and almost brilliant mind.
There are Jack and Locke in the hatch checking out the guns - 6 guns and 1 box of ammo. How many did Mr. Friendly take in THP ? Locke very condescendingly gives Jack the combination to the vault, in case one of them falls off a cliff. Locke suggests they keep the meds in there too.
On the beach Charlie is building a shelter for himself - Sawyer gives him some lip about getting kicked out of home. Charlie snipes back that maybe he should take some notice of what's going on at his tent. And sure enough there's Jack going through his stash and taking all Sawyer's meds. Tells Sawyer he doesn't have a stash any more. Now Jack is probably right - they all assumed that the Rafters were dead or gone, but now Sawyer is back, alive and kicking, so what was wrong with Jack actually discussing this matter with Sawyer - "Hey, I'm the Doc, don't you think I should be in charge of the meds ?" He knows better than anyone how stubborn Sawyer is. It worked with Hurley, with the manifest. Sawyer tells Jack that he doesn't want to threaten him - red rag to a bull ! He just wants his pain killers. Sounds logical.
In Sawyer's FB, it started out somewhat familiar, I agree World Walker ! But who instigated the con in the first place ! Was Sawyer in love with Cassidy ? Possibly, towards the end, he was getting quite agitated about Gordy threatening to harm Cassidy and wanted to call the whole thing off. I always found this situation with Sawyer and Cassidy quite ambiguous.
Kate visits his tent in the rain, and Sawyer says plaintively that at least she still loves him. When Locke wanders past Kate tells Sawyer that since she kicked Charlie out of home, Claire has asked Locke to sleep near her tent and protect her and Aaron. Sawyer as usual responds with an uncouth comment about Locke having his needs, too. Kate says that not everyone is like him, so Sawyer rubs her nose in it by drawing her attention to the fact that Jack and Anal are getting very friendly and trying to stage a revolution. Kate is not impressed.
After Charlie has staged Sun's kidnap, at Sawyer's instruction, Sawyer just happens to hear her screaming in the jungle and races off to rescue her. When Jack cross examines Sawyer to find out where he found her he mentions that he heard her scream and "Found her out in the jungle about half a Klick from here." AhHa, this is one of the first hints of some pre-knowledge of the island. Klicks is a British military term for kilometer, not a U.S. term, and an unlikely term for Sawyer to be using. He also mentioned it in "Expose", and I believe in S5. We also heard "New Sheriff in town" as quoted by Sawyer to Kate early in S1, and in S5 he is the new sheriff in town.
Meanwhile Sawyer warns Locke that Jack is hastening over to the hatch to take the guns for his and Anal's army. Locke wants to move them and he wants Sawyer to help. Locke says he can't leave the hatch, so Sawyer volunteers to push the buttons but leaves the rest up to Locke. Jack and Jin return to the hatch to find the guns all gone. Jack goes ballistic and attacks Sawyer, but Jin stops him. Locke says they should all be locked up but Jack says he needs two - him and Anal obviously. Talk about double standards.
Then we get Sawyer with the guns and the "New sheriff in town" speech. And Sawyer's talk to Charlie - "I ain't a good person Charlie, never done a good thing in my life". But Sawyer has done good things in his life, his failed cons are usually about Sawyer having a conscience. The appearance of the small child in "Confidence Man", his effort to keep Cassidy away from harm. His eventual apology to Sun. His burying of the hatchet with Sayid. His talk to Jack bout his dad. Etc. etc.
I said once that Sawyer is possibly the most honest of all the survivors - at least he is honest in his skulduggery ! And he makes no pretences for his actions.
Very dark episode, but highly intriguing. And there's so much more ..... !
AChristianShephard
09-04-09, 02:56 AM
Aghhhh I just hit the wrong button on my keyboard and lost my whole post!
Bugger it.
10/10
Aghhhh I just hit the wrong button on my keyboard and lost my whole post!
Bugger it.
10/10
Awwwwwwwww .............:rolleyez:
And I agree abut the 10/10 :Cheers:
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