View Full Version : LOST Hiatus Rewatch #3 (08/26/09-09/02/09)-S2E17: Lockdown
This is the discussion thread for the LOST-TV Hiatus Rewatch - Season 2 Episode 17 , "Lockdown"
Written by : Carlton Cuse & Damon Lindelof
The original (or as close to original as exists) thread for this episode can be found here (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16572).
General questions about the LOST-TV Hiatus Rewatch can be posted in the LOST-TV Hiatus Rewatch thread (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37370).
Episode Description:
Locke enlists Henry Gale's help when the Swan Station goes into a surprising lockdown mode; Ana-Lucia, Charlie, and Sayid journey into the jungle to confirm if Gale's story is the truth.
Wait. I'm first?
What a great episode. The set-up for Benry was inspired! It's so amazing to see him come into his full evil potential for the first time. I know it sucks, but Ben is one of my favorite characters on LOST. (not in a good way, just in a character way) ;) We still don't exactly have him figured out going into Season 4. Why did he come back? Did he need more information? Was he trying to gain Locke's trust or was he really checking Jack out? In hindsight, he was doing all three or so he said.
Anyway, what actually caused the system failure in the first place? Did Ben push the botton or not push the button?
WOW! The Blast Door Map! That alone caused a revolution on the board.
I still have a small poster of the map in my office. LOL :D
I loved the intensity of the ending scene in the hatch.
Oh Ben, you're so busted.
Random things I loved:
The Oceanic planes flying over Cooper's Motel. (what an ass! BTW)
Nadia getting her house inspected in Cali. by Locke
Helen asking Cooper, "Are you him?" which I never caught before tonight.
Ok, so Locke kept his engagement ring for Helen in his sock drawer. Jack lost his, bought a substitute, which he now keeps in HIS sock drawer !
Back in the hatch Henry is still continuing to run rings around Jack and Locke. He asks Locke why he continues to let Jack boss him around.
Sayid, Ana and Charlie are in the jungle in the rain - suddenly its not raining - they look up and see Henry's ballon in the tree above.
Back in the hatch Locke and Gale are relaxing when a loudspeaker starts blaring warning of "Lockdown". It turns out that when this lockdown finally happens and Locke gets his leg trapped underneath the blast doors, at the same time there is a food drop in the jungle. Another little mystery solved!
At the same time as the speaker is blaring out something about protocol Gale asks what is going on. Locke tells him to shut up and Henry suggests that he should get Jack. What a little stirrer !!
On the beach we have the great island poker game with Hurley, Kate, Sawyer and the great Jack. Jack says he has to get back to the hatch - why - to take Locke down another peg or two ! Anyway he decides to stay on the beach and take Sawyer down a peg or two ! Sawyer tells Jack to put his mangoes where his mouth is - that is a most unappealing visual ! I liked Kate's remark about playing cards for fun - "You should try it some time, Jack". Also "Should I go and get a ruler ?" I'm not a Kate fan but she has her moments. Of course Sawyer gets well and truly beaten, this is, after all, the demasculation of Sawyer (told you Kate shouldn't have cut his hair !) Jack goes on to win the medicine, of course, and when Sawyer offers to go for the guns Jack says "When I want the guns, I'll get the guns". I would have smacked him so hard in the face - is there no limit to his arrogance. And don't look so smug, Kate, you'll get yours !
In the hatch Locke and Henry have had their troubles with the doors etc., but I felt for Locke when he thanked Henry for staying with him. But don't ever put your trust in him, Locke, after we find out who's buried in the grave - would you believe - Henry Gale ?
Now we are starting to find out more about Anthony Cooper - what a creep, but its going to be an interesting story. I'm already getting geared up for "The Brig".
The final insult between Jack and Kate is when she runs up behind him and says she'll go to the hatch with him so she can have a shower. Jack makes up some story about the plumbing being broken so she won't go (after all we couldn't have anyone else knowing about Henry, or anything, could we.) She says she's glad he beat Sawyer so he gets all smarmy and says he'll walk her back to the beach. Oh dear, words fail me ......
Zia you got here first ! Regarding the blast doors coming down I think that was caused by the food drop so no-one could get to the drop area - I've no idea why, but it seems to fit in (and I think I read about it somewhere. but I don't recall where !)
I love Ben too. He is so creepy and devious. Even when hero Jack was beeting the crap out of him, (end of S3) Ben still seemed to be in control. Next season could be awesome (no triangle please).
There are so many more things to think about. I was just wondering ..... NO I wasn't ! Got enough to think about. (Stumbles off to kitchen muttering ..)
Zia you got here first ! Regarding the blast doors coming down I think that was caused by the food drop so no-one could get to the drop area - I've no idea why, but it seems to fit in (and I think I read about it somewhere. but I don't recall where !)
I love Ben too. He is so creepy and devious. Even when hero Jack was beeting the crap out of him, (end of S3) Ben still seemed to be in control. Next season could be awesome (no triangle please).
There are so many more things to think about. I was just wondering ..... NO I wasn't ! Got enough to think about. (Stumbles off to kitchen muttering ..)
Right! True, I must have forgotten about the link to the food drop. I was tired last night...:D
You know what happens when you start doing dishes, Ozanna! LMAO
I still can't believe Helen asked Cooper, "Are you him?"
Well, I never put together the food drop being the reason for the lockdown! I wonder if it is b/c they don't want anyone seeing the drop? Who the heck is "they" anyway!!
Question - Locke tells Cooper, "he didn't do it for the money". Well, why did he do it? Why did he attend that man's funeral, and why on Earth would he agree to do something for the bastard? Makes no sense.
When I first started watching, I never realized that was Nadia. I don't know how I missed it, but I was expecting it this time since I had seen it on the boards.
I've just been looking at "Dave" and Charlie came up with the explanation of the blast doors closing at the same time as the food drop occurred, so that no one would witness it. I guess that would go back to the days when whoever was in the hatch stayed there because of the quarantine. Evidently the crew at Dharma are a bit slow keeping up with the news !!
Well, I never put together the food drop being the reason for the lockdown! I wonder if it is b/c they don't want anyone seeing the drop? Who the heck is "they" anyway!!
I think 'they' seem to be part of the Dharma Initiative. Inman said he signed up with Dharma, so it would make sense to drop supplies for him. Didn't we get confirmation of the lockdown/food drop later on in the show?
Question - Locke tells Cooper, "he didn't do it for the money". Well, why did he do it? Why did he attend that man's funeral, and why on Earth would he agree to do something for the bastard? Makes no sense.
It's unfortunate, but Locke still wants Cooper to be his Father. It's kind of pathetic, isn't it? Locke would still do anything for Cooper.
Clearly, Cooper already realizes that and is content with using Locke to his advantage. This episode is when Locke LOST some of his 'glitter' for me.
Locke 'n' Load
10-29-07, 02:55 AM
I think it is a bit funny that Sayid, Charlie, and AnaL didn’t notice the big red and yellow balloon they were standing under before they did. It didn’t’ seem they were in such thick underbrush that it wouldn’t be visible until then. Not very observant if you ask me. :D
Jack’s arrogance at the poker game was too much for me to take. And then Kate puppy dog follows Jack and says she was glad that he beat Sawyer. *counts to ten (again)*
When Sayid announced that he had found Henry Gale in the grave and not his wife and showed Ben the photo ID, I would have thought he would look towards Locke for protection. But he looked at Jack to see what his reaction was instead.
I know it sucks, but Ben is one of my favorite characters on LOST. (not in a good way, just in a character way)
Zia, I totally agree with you. But it took the re-watch for me to feel that way. Ben keeps us on our toes and he never disappoints the audience with twists and manipulation. :D
Now we are starting to find out more about Anthony Cooper - what a creep, but its going to be an interesting story. I'm already getting geared up for "The Brig".
Ozanna, you are right. Cooper is a Creep (capital C). However, in this episode I almost felt that Cooper cared about John a little, especially regarding his relationship with Helen. Did anyone get that, or is it just me? (Don't let future actions (The Brig) influence you because we're not there yet, and is that truly Locke's father or a manifestation of the island?)
Zia you got here first ! Regarding the blast doors coming down I think that was caused by the food drop so no-one could get to the drop area - I've no idea why, but it seems to fit in (and I think I read about it somewhere. but I don't recall where !)
I've just been looking at "Dave" and Charlie came up with the explanation of the blast doors closing at the same time as the food drop occurred, so that no one would witness it. I guess that would go back to the days when whoever was in the hatch stayed there because of the quarantine. Evidently the crew at Dharma are a bit slow keeping up with the news !!
Ozanna, yes, Charlie mentions the connection at the food drop. He put two and two together...smart boy.
Question - Locke tells Cooper, "he didn't do it for the money". Well, why did he do it? Why did he attend that man's funeral, and why on Earth would he agree to do something for the bastard? Makes no sense.
Catnap, I'm sure most of us agree with this. However, growing up without a father took its toll on Locke. He has never given up the fanciful notion of having a loving father. In his desperation he'll do anything to get the love and approval from Cooper that he so passionately desires. Helen was right. Locke wanted his father's love more than hers.
Hi Locke 'n' Load - actually I sort of agree with you about Cooper, he did seem to be almost "paternal" towards Locke a couple of times, but then he is a total con artist, unlike his protege, (Sawyer) who is not ! I know you should try not to let future actions influence you, its hard sometimes ! I've often had a vague thought that Cooper might not really be dead - its all some sort of havid or something - he's done the ultimate con on the hapless Sawyer, and he'll come wandering back in again one day !! I hope that is not classifie as a spoiler - I can assure you its not ! Its just the random ramblings of someone with a highly overactive imagination and too much time on their hands ! I keep meaning to do a very thorough research into Cooper and the Brig and so on. Its going to take a heap of dish washing, though ..... !
Locke 'n' Load
10-29-07, 05:23 AM
Hi Locke 'n' Load - actually I sort of agree with you about Cooper, he did seem to be almost "paternal" towards Locke a couple of times, but then he is a total con artist, unlike his protege, (Sawyer) who is not ! I know you should try not to let future actions influence you, its hard sometimes ! I've often had a vague thought that Cooper might not really be dead - its all some sort of havid or something - he's done the ultimate con on the hapless Sawyer, and he'll come wandering back in again one day !! I hope that is not classifie as a spoiler - I can assure you its not ! Its just the random ramblings of someone with a highly overactive imagination and too much time on their hands ! I keep meaning to do a very thorough research into Cooper and the Brig and so on. Its going to take a heap of dish washing, though ..... !
I've had he same thoughts, Ozanna. The Cooper shown on the island seems different to me, like it is not really him.
I agree about Cooper and his apparent concern regarding Helen. It seemed as if he actually cared for a second, but he's a damn good con artist and one evil man. He conned Locke out of a kidney and staged his own funeral.. :)
abcdxyz
11-01-07, 12:53 AM
Watching this ep, I realized that I STILL don't get why Ben staged this whole elaborate charade. "I'm Henry Gale, I'm from Minnesota . . ."
Whether he meant to be wounded and captured or not, if his purpose was to get Jack to do the surgery, wouldn't it have been more effective for his group to befriend the losties and then, when they're all good buddies, just ASK Jack to do the surgery?
The Others were hostile to the 815 survivors from the outset--it sure doesn't seem like they had a favor they wanted to ask.
abcdxyz - I was just wondering if it wasn't Ben's devious ways of getting himself in with the losties. The Others were not exactly friendly to them right from the start, and maybe Ben feels if he can heal the rift, at least between him and Jack and the more powerful members, he can make a bit of headway and start looking after his own agenda. Actually that seems a bit weak, doesn't it, but I'll leave it in just in case it rings some bells in anyone else's head !!!!! It is very frustrating though, and even though we know this is "Lost" it'd be nice to have a vague idea !
Watching this ep, I realized that I STILL don't get why Ben staged this whole elaborate charade. "I'm Henry Gale, I'm from Minnesota . . ."
Whether he meant to be wounded and captured or not, if his purpose was to get Jack to do the surgery, wouldn't it have been more effective for his group to befriend the losties and then, when they're all good buddies, just ASK Jack to do the surgery?
The Others were hostile to the 815 survivors from the outset--it sure doesn't seem like they had a favor they wanted to ask.
Yeah, it doesn't make a lot of sense. But, this is LOST. I always assumed he just wanted to get himself into their camp and find out more about them. His way is to find out what matters most to people, and use that to manipulate them, so maybe he is just looking for ammunition. But being nice and asking might work better! I guess it is possible that he believes they might not actually be who they say they are, and he is trying to get a better idea. I don't know, that's all I've got!
We're dissecting this very point in the "Dave" thread! LOL :)
ozchick
11-23-07, 09:59 PM
:bump:
Ok. I'm back and trying to catch up. Not much new to say, just that this was truly one of the best episodes of the entire series. The blast door map alone would have done it, but also the incredible humor of the poker game, and Ben getting busted at the end. Just brilliant.
Sawyer nicknames:
Muttonchops: Hurley
Amarillo Slim: Jack
Doc: Jack
Cool Hand: Jack
Mongo: Hurley
I always assumed he just wanted to get himself into their camp and find out more about them.
That assumption is almost certainly correct, imo. He was attempting to infiltrate their camp. By doing so, he would gain intel openly had they accepted him for who he claimed to be. He was likely unaware they had not only found the grave but also what it contained, i.e. the balloonists identity, which later proved to be his downfall.
Based on what we were shown, there is no logical or plausible way it could have been planned. In addition, there was no way to insure the Losties would have found him when they did, or that Danielle's crossbow accuracy was 100% reliable. There are simply too many variables for that plan to have been anywhere close to a certainty, as even the very best laid plans are not foolproof.
Given these and other factors, I believe it happened as we were shown and as Ben stated (The latter being as the script called for). ;)
Hint: They are telling a story and they want the audience to 'get it'. They may hide this fact well and some thinking may be required, but the answers are there for the most part.
I just came to the realization I made a Lost related post in this "Hiatus Rewatch" thread. Something, some unexplainable force, inexorably drew me here. I'm not sure how to explain it, but the fact Zia is actively recruiting posters may have had something to do with it. :confused:
Anyway, I'm still waiting for the Dharma bus to come and pick me up. Which reminds me, who did I lend it too? Hrm...lemme think...;)
Oh, and would someone kindly pass the mustard and mayo, please? :help:
I still have the Dharma bus as my profile pic. :)
sweetsunray
01-06-08, 09:07 PM
This is one of the very interesting epis again character-relation wise because it focuses on many issues going on at the same time
- Who's Henry Gale? Is he truthful or a liar? Is he to be trusted or not?
- Locke and his trust issues, both on island as well as in FB
- Locke and his rivalry issues
- Dealing with the aftermath of the Long Con: Jack versus Sawyer
- Jack - Kate
- Dharma mysteries: food drop and lockdown with map
Locke-Helen:
We're starting to see the beginning of Locke's true demise in the US. Ok we already know of his drama of Cooper's con about his kidney, but he had found someone who pulled him through and he was almost there.
How the fates can toy with destiny, don't they? Whenever I see this fb, I'm reminded how well they were for eacB'h other. Those two should have been married... were it not for an obituary.
It wasn't that Locke helped his father out, again, for her but that he lied in her face after two goons had harassed them at their house. Helen was a woman of principles. She loved him, but he had just crossed that line.
Why did Locke do it? He knew what his father was. Did he hope to have a father-son bond after that. I don't really think so, but I think for Locke it was his way to heal his soul over that hurt of what his father did to him. I think Locke knew full well he was helping his father without winning his father. But he wanted to get rid of his anger, of his cynicism, of his hatred. I think Locke would have been the kind of man who would have given his kidney for his father, even if Cooper had played it straight to him: I need your kidney to survive, but don't expect us to become friends even, it's your choice. And what does Locke say to Cooper in the bar: "You could've asked me. You could have just asked me."
Essentially, Locke has a caring nature. Here, with Cooper this time, he had his chance to care without being conned for it, his chance to say goodbye and feel good about it, and he took that chance. And for the type of man he was it would have done him a world of good, had Helen not walked out on him.
Back on island: Locke - Ben at breakfast
Ben has been his evil self by toying with the fears in both Jack's as well as Locke's mind, and suggest the balloon location may have been a trap. Jack wants Ben to draw the map again, but Locke rightfully reasons they're long gone by now.
Jack orders Locke to lock up Ben again, and Ben takes the opportunity to poke at Locke's dislike of having a boss, but Locke is finally starting to get the manipulation act. Ben had rightfully pointed out there was a lot of distrust between the Losties, and Locke understands he had helped to create the situation where AL run off with the map without either telling Locke or Jack with his antics towards Jack, certainly after Ben poked him on that subject.
Locke realizes Ben might have manipulated him just like Cooper manipulated him to have his kidney. He's mentally at the same point of his fb, where Cooper sought him out again although he was supposed to be dead. But last time with Cooper he went along one more time. This time he thinks he learned and will not play the game, and so Ben's poking only gets him to be dragged into his jail again.
Jack on the beach:
Jack wants to find out whether he could still catch up with AL, Sayid and Charlie, but obviously that's no use. Then he has to do his house calls as requested, but Libby points the medicine problem out to him... Jack had gotten the medicine out of the wreckage in S1, he had guarded it for a long time, then put it in the gun room by Locke's advice, and lost the medicine after Locke decided to hide the medicine along with the guns, fooled by Sawyer's long con. Not only is it in Sawyer's possession, he's trying to make a profit out of it. It's about time Jack gets his meds back.
Locke-Ben in the hatch:
Just when Locke thinks he's able to distance himself from Ben, locked him up, and is dong some exercise on the bike that damn loudspeaker starts crackling and blaring about lockdown and protocol. So, Ben starts shouting what's going on and Locke angrily orders him to shut up. Just like he thought he was rid of Cooper, right when he was at peace with it and moving on, Cooper called for attention again by dying (not!). Then the blast doors isolate Locke from the puter, and the numbers will need entering in about 27 mins, and he will need to cooperate with Ben... just like he had to be dragged into Cooper's life one more time when Cooper feigned his death.
Poker: the hustler tactic
There's Jack's chance to get it back fair-and-square without demanding it back, or shouting about it: Sawyer, Kate and Hurley are playing poker. Well, Kate and Hurley are losing, and Sawyer's probably cheating them to win all their fruit.
Plus he is motivated to stay out of the hatch for a while: Ben can only make him angry and Locke can only make him angry. He's really not eager to be in the hatch.
So, Jack plays the angle where Sawyer will want to play poker with him... the hustler angle: he shows he knows some of the game, but intends to leave, feigns he has other stuff to do... but Sawyer's alpha male ego gets big and he falls for Jack's hustler angle... and he probably likes the idea of playing with someone who at least knows more of the game than Hurley or Kate do.
Kate - Jack exchange during poker game
Kate sees her chance to draw Jack's attention to her. You can see Jack soften up a bit in his expression when directly speaking to her, but he obviously feels unsure. In his mind Sawyer professed his love to her already, she ran away after kissing Jack and so must not be contemplating him seriously at all, and Jack acted like an a$$ to her by ordering her away from his side; he's been down under in the hatch for days now... so Sawyer and Kate must be an item by now (in his mind).
As she has done several times before Kate reminds him of "just doing something for fun". BTW Achara used to tell him the same thing before that.
Lockdown situation:
Locke tries to get the blast door up by himself but doesn't manage, so he needs to bring in Ben and make a promise that whoever he turns out to be he'll protect him from coming to harm. Just like Cooper can't manage on his own to get the con money and needs Locke to get it and give some of the money to Locke for the risk he takes with those goons.
Poker development:
Jack's won all the fruit from Sawyer, Hurley and Kate and does his hustler trick again to have Sawyer raise the stakes. Kate realizes this game is getting serious, and that Jack is not just playing for fun, and leaves the boys to play in their sandbox. I don't think she expected Jack to be a poker player or a guy who knows how to hustle. Golf and surgeons is to be expected, but poker? Kate, Kate... we've seen him gamble and bluff several times before for real on the island.
Lockdown situation again:
The situation only gets worse... not only does he have to get Ben out of his jail, he becomes truly dependent on Ben by getting stuck and wounded under the blast door, and not just for his sole survival and physical care, but for the pushing of the button too and the saving of the world as well. It's getting more complicated by the minute, just as it got more complicated after he got Cooper's money out of the safety box and had goons visit his home and scare the living daylight out of Helen as well as him lying to her.
Poker again:
Sawyer realizes he's been hustled and now tries to cheat, meanwhile asking questions Jack doesn't like to answer: what was Jack doing in Thailand? And was that where he got his tattoo? Well, Sawyer, Jack was on an extended leave after beating his dad and after going nutters when his wife left him for another guy, and had a holiday affair with a Chinese woman who was only in it for the fun. And yes that's where he got his first tattoos when he learned of Achara's gift and forced her to put it on him, and then got trashed for it by her brother and his mates.
It ain't nice Sawyer to cheat. Just as it ain't nice to trade for the medicine.
Lockdown once more:
Locke reveals what's the puter for to Ben and another escape route via the pantry. But Ben falls and lies on the ground unconscious, while there are only 4 mins left before the numbers ought to be pushed in.
Poker once more:
It's starting to draw a crowd watching from a distance... Seeing Jack play to win the medicine back after they had to trade for it with Sawyer must be a relief.
Jack points out why he thinks he's a better keeper of the medicine, because he doubts Sawyer knows what's it all for. Sawyer answers a S1 question by Jack when he visited the doc for his eyes: he once had an STD after sleeping with a prostitute in Tallahassee. Sawyer also seems to think Jack must have been visiting massage palaces in Phuket btw. Well, Thailand is known for its sex-tourism anyway.
Jack wins the meds back. Well, that's how it should be. And honestly, if any of us would have been on that beach and would have preferred Sawyer over Jack, we'd still hope Jack would win the meds back. Sawyer's a good guy most of the time, and in his heart when it comes down to it. But he isn't a nice guy, not by a long shot, and he should not trade for the medicine. And Jack attempted to acquire it without resorting to shouting. Jack does not do what people usually complain about, and then there are still complaints.
Yes, he does brag that he will get the guns if he needs them. IMO he's speaking Sawyer's language. It's exactly the kind of thing I'd expect Sawyer to say too. To have Sawyer's respect you must be able to talk back, stump him on the shoulder, do a beer contest, play poker ... caveman up. I'm not saying Sawyer is a caveman, but that's the language he uses (and not just to men) and he expects men to behave just like it towards him... if they don't, he thinks they're softies and doesn't respect them (just look at how he acts around Hurley, certainly with the squashed treefrog). Anyway, if Jack's an a$$ for talking that way to Sawyer, then Sawyer must be one too for talking like that to almost anyone. But I never see people complain about Sawyer acting all alpha-male around anyone, but instead read how much people like him acting bada$$... well and if it is something totally indefensable (like squashing the treefrog) then it's :TPTP:
As for the writing:
they're all shown to be pricks at a time, but they all have their qualities. And let's be honest: Sawyer would be boring if he was actually a nice person, so would Charlie be, Locke would become annoying if he was a perfect boyscout who helps everyone out, and everyone would really have a reasonimo to be mad at TPTB if Jack never was wrong, never was angry, and actually was the perfect leader.
Sometimes I think it's not just about the characters accepting each other for who they are, but for us viewers as well to accept a character to be as he/she is: that includes for characters we may not like all that much for being well-intenioned, as well as those characters we like to not always be as good as we hope them to be or suppose them to be without blaming it on TPTB wanting to ruin a character. We all have someone we hate to love.
I must admit I've got the same regarding Locke. And to be honest it's because I had more hopes for him. I was so disappointed in him after Boone's death that I started to hate him for disappointing me. This rewatch, I've tried to gain sympathy for him, actively try to understand his viewpoint whenever I could, and although in a way I'm mad at him for doing something as irresponsible to hide the medicine along with the guns in the Long Con all because he wants to play a power game with Jack (and I don't care whether Jack deserved to be outsmarted by Locke), I do have sympathy for him in this lockdown situation, and I am unable to say whether he's right or wrong in the long run.
:Cheers:
back to the lockdown
Ben goes down into the vent and might try to escape in Locke's mind. To be honest, I don't think Ben could have escaped. The computer room would have been locked down as well. The lockdown is a food drop protocol. And normally there are 2 people down in the hatch, and one person would remain in the puter room during the lockdown to input the numbers if need be. Since that room has two entrances, then the other entrance must also be locked down by a blast door. The only question is whether there is a way to exit the hatch through the vent without ending up in a locked down hall, living quarters or puter room. I don't think there is, unless you try to escape through the hatch entry where Locke, Kate and Jack entered it, and I don't think Ben could have climbed up that way. So, Ben is as locked in as Locke is, but Locke doesn't know this.
Anyway, the situation has gone so far that Locke's confronted with his dependability as his lifelong fear of being left alone (he was abandoned by his mother, stayed in several foster families, abandoned by Cooper, and abandoned by Helen as we see in the accompanying FB). Poor guy. He had it really hard and now he's forced to trust someone he feels he cannot trust.
Did Ben put in the numbers or not?
Well, I think he did, but not right away. We can hear the hatch power up, just as it did when Locke saw the hieroglyphs appear where the clock is usually. This means Ben is too late with his input, and I think he was too late on purpose. I think he wanted Locke to see the map.
First of all the Others had time enough to observe Inman and Desmond in the hatch. They never tried to interfere with either two being there. Radzinski created the map and Inman followed up on it, and this during the time when the Others had taken full control over the island, when Dharma had stopped sending new recruitments to the island. The map obviously invites people to explore the island instead of remain in the hatch. What's more, Radzinski at one time cut the part out of the movie that forbid anyone to use the computer for anything different than inputting the numbers, and hid that movie piece at the other side of the island in a bible in the arrow. What's more we later learn that the Swan puter is wired to the Flame puter.
TPTB ruled out that Radzinski could have been Mikhail, and that he did die by shooting his brains out
Whoever Radzinski was originally, if he explored the island that much and went on such long trips while Inman was down in the hatch then at some point he must have met some "Hostiles". And I suspect he told the Others some stuff about the hatch, told them why they should not kill him, and why he needed to get back, and that is why they left the hatch alone for so long. What's not up for discussion is that he left a legacy for other people down in the hatch to want to explore the island and at some point meet the Others and raise the chances they'd communicate per puter with the Others.
Ben knew about Radzinski's legacy, and he sure knows the protocol since the manuals are in the flame. What's more, in the Flame, we learn that there's a food drop protocol that can be started from the computer after Locke wins the chess game. It was Mikhail who started the food drop imo from the Flame that day/night, both to supply the Losties with food, but more importantly to have someone of the Losties discover Radzinski's map on the blast door.
And the food drop occurred while Locke was all alone with Ben in the hatch, while Locke was becoming insensitive to Ben's poking and Ben was in high need to win someone's trust. And this was imo one of the reasons why Ben was down there. Another Other could have done that of course, but Ben wanted to win Locke's trust because obviously he had a special connection with the island and Ben needed to know more of Jack personally in order to manipulate him later on so he would operate on Ben's tumor. The only thing Ben hadn't counted on was being caught in one of Danielle's traps.
Jack-Kate
Kate sees her opening to repair the damaged relationship with Jack again. He was not unfriendly towards her at the beach, even if keeping some distance. She's using the shower as a reason. I'm sure she really wanted to shower, but the shower itself is not without possibilities in Kate's mind to create a bond with Jack once more: last time she was in the shower while Jack was down there, he had flirted with her. I'm quite sure that Kate's using it as a reminder for Jack to remember the "good times" :rolleyez:
But to no avail: the plumbing's broken... NOT . He's lying Kate. Don't take it personal, it's not that he doesn't like looking at you when you come out of the shower, it's because there's a captive down in the hatch. And you're not exactly the best person to trust a secret with, since you've blabbered about the existence of the guns and where Jack kept the key. BTW it surprised me how Charlie was able to keep Gale secret. He usually is a blabbermouth too. Might have to do with the fact nobody was talking to him anymore. So, Hurley don't be upset about not being in the loop, because you shoved your friend Charlie away too.
Kate's disappointed that the shower lure didn't accomplish its magic and is ready to head back for the beach, but then decides to throw it on another angle: she's glad he beat Sawyer and gives Jack one of her most radiant smiles.
She's not only stroking Jack's ego, but also signaling to Jack that she and Sawyer aren't a couple. And Sawyer would kill to have Kate smile like that at him. Jack would really be made of rock if he could resist that.
He can't and he figures it out: the shower mentioning, Kate running after him in the dark, she not being an item with Sawyer, and her smile. And so he offers to walk her back to the beach: an obvious gallant signal by any man that he's willing to court a woman. Notice something else: the hatch can wait until morning. He says morning! Jack's got no intention of returning before it's light again. The trip to the beach can't take whole night, can it? I think he has Phuket fun on his mind :nanabobo:
But blast it for the Jaters: there's a dharma food drop and not just that, Sayid , Charlie and AL return with some bad news. That's always the case with Jate, whenever Jack tries to make a move, someone else or some big drama interrupts them. :TPTP:
Does Gale need to be kept secret? Well, they couldn't control all day long who's down the hatch or not, and it could be dangerous for anyone there if the Others decided to free Gale. I understand they didn't want a mob for Gale on their hands, but yea for security reasons they should have informed all of the Losties. Bad choice from both Jack, Locke, Sayid, AL and Charlie.
BTW Ben looks at Jack to observe what he's going to do; he's not looking at Locke... Then again, it's Jack who holds him and the first he can expect a punch in the face from.
Oh and Kate, now you know why the shower lure didn't work on Jack.
nstinson
12-26-08, 05:24 AM
these rewatches are meh, because it generally seems to devolve into "Jack is such a meanie" "Jack this" "Jack that" blah blah blah blah blah about Jack being a bad guy, and then the thread ends with a long, thoughtful post by "sweetsunray".... and never another reply :nanabobo:
sgtdraino
12-27-08, 05:53 AM
these rewatches are meh, because it generally seems to devolve into "Jack is such a meanie" "Jack this" "Jack that" blah blah blah blah blah about Jack being a bad guy, and then the thread ends with a long, thoughtful post by "sweetsunray".... and never another reply :nanabobo:
How dare you utter such nasty lies about our friend sweetsunray! I will not countenance it!
nstinson
12-29-08, 11:59 PM
its just disappointing to see sunray write such a long, thoughtful post, and no one responds to it:-p
LOST Hiatus Rewatch:
Week 14
Weds., August 26th-September 2nd, 2009
S2: E17: Lockdown
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u34/zia29112/LOST%20Stuff/300px-Lost-season1.jpg
World Walker
08-29-09, 04:30 AM
That’s ironic how Helen reads the obituaries and mentions that nobody says anything mean about anyone once they’re dead. As we find out in Season Five, Helen will die of a brain aneurism in 2006. I felt sad for Locke when he found out Helen was dead. She always seemed like a good match for him. If he could’ve got over his daddy issues, they may have really worked (until her death in ’06, at least).
Jack: “What’s done is done.” – Yeah and whatever happened, happened. We sure hear this stuff a lot, now, don’t we?
I think Ben may’ve pushed Locke a bit too far when he said, “Why do you let him treat you like that?” about Jack. Just then I got the impression Locke was beginning to wise up to Ben’s manipulations and that’s why Locke dragged him back to the armory. Yet, even knowing about the manipulation doesn’t help John, because Ben’s words bite in a very sensitive place. Ben gets a similar reaction from John in Season Four when he is once again a prisoner.
Ben’s plan to prove his identity as Henry Gale was actually quite clever. All of his details were accurate down to the smiley face on the balloon. If Sayid hadn’t gone the extra mile and dug up the grave, his plan would have worked and he would have had free reign among the losties. Now that could’ve been interesting, though the reveal at the end of the episode was still pretty awesome.
That’s a really cool sequence with the voice on the bad speaker counting down and then the blast doors shutting. We knew they would come into play at some point because Michael pointed them out to Locke before he went after Walt. The big question we have to ask is why did the designers of The Swan want their people trapped in the hatch during the food drop?
Jack actually does a very good job conning Sawyer into playing a game of cards.
We have a Nadia sighting!
John to Cooper regarding his kidney: “You could’ve asked me. You could’ve just asked me.” – Yes, he could’ve, but Cooper is a conman. Besides, what’s done is done.
That’s a neat similarity between the keys both Helen and Cooper present to Locke. Both keys shape his path in life. The first was offered by Helen so that their relationship could go further than it had before. This second was offered by Cooper so he could get his hands on the money he conned out of those thugs. Locke accepts both keys, but as we know, he ultimately loses Helen (who felt betrayed because John lied to her about his father) and Cooper (who never cared about John and was only conning him a second time). This desire to have both the father and the loving wife are what undo Locke at this stage in his life.
There’s a good comparison that can be made with the situation between Locke and Cooper in the flashback and with Locke and Ben in the present. Both times, Locke is on his guard but ultimately gives Cooper/Ben the benefit of the doubt and ends up getting burned in the end.
Kate: “Should I go and get a ruler?” :rotfl:
Locke’s legs getting impaled by the blast door was pretty brutal, but it’s nothing compared to the bone sticking out of his broken leg in This Place is Death. As we can tell from his many injuries on the Island (shot in the leg, broken leg, impaled leg, etc.), this man has absolutely no luck with his legs.
Those thugs that visited Helen and Locke’s place were pretty frightening. I would have wet myself shamelessly. :eek1:
Ben sure was clumsy climbing up that shelf in the pantry. Almost makes you wonder if he did that on purpose to delay his entry into the dome to press the button…:scratchch
You know, up until now I was under the impression the Others didn’t know where The Swan was. Now, I’m not so sure. Ben was part of the Dharma Initiative right until the end in 1992. We saw him with older Roger Linus in the barracks on the day of the purge. Surely in Ben’s nearly twenty years in the Initiative, he would have learned about where the hatch was and it’s purpose. But then again, maybe it was kept very secret by Candle and the leaders of the Initiative. If so, that would explain the strangely genuine look of surprise that Ben has toward the hatch.
The design of the blast doors was pretty flawed. Why couldn’t they have just designed the doors to block off all the exits yet keep the living area connected to the computer room? The way the doors block off all the rooms from each other is just plain silly. Imagine if your partner was asleep and you’re on the crapper when the blast doors come down. Unless you’re a vent crawling champ like Gordon Freeman, you’re pretty much out of luck. :rolleyez:
We never saw John go back in the hotel for his share of the money and in a later flashback we see him living in a crappy apartment. I guess the maid got one hell of a tip after all. Either that or Cooper just scooped the excess into his bag before he jumped in the cab. He was the last one to leave the hotel room.
So, I think it’s clear to assume that the numbers were not entered in time because we could hear the same sound we heard during One of Them when Locke failed to enter the numbers in time. This didn’t last long, because Ben clearly pushed the button despite his later claim that he didn’t. We hear the clock flip back to 108, everything power down, the lights go off, and we see the blast door map in black light.
We could talk about the blast door map until the cows come home. This is one of the most intriguing pieces of mythology we’ve ever been presented on the show. The nexus of the map is at the ? which is debatably the same location where The Pearl lies buried. The map also shows stations we’ve already seen as well as some we will see in Season Three such as The Flame (the station most likely responsible for the food drop).
The biggest clue that intrigues me is the drawing of tunnels reaching out from each station, supposedly linking up toward the ?. Yet, every single one of these tunnels has an X on the end as if they were cut off or caved in. When I studied this a little while ago, I discovered there had been quite a few notes made in the margins about an incident in the 1980’s (I don’t have access to the detailed map so I can’t say what exact year, though I suspect it was 1985) which may or may not be the reason these tunnels appear inaccessible. The idea of tunnels, however, seems very consistent with the escape hatch we saw in The Staff during Maternity Leave. Where else would it lead but tunnels?
We later learn that Radzinsky was the mastermind behind the map. Why he would need to guess at the locations of these stations when he was on the high end of the dharma totem pole in the seventies is beyond me. What I think may’ve happened following The Incident in 1977 is Radzinsky was put down in The Swan indefinitely to push the button as punishment for his mistake in instigating the destabilization of the energy pocket he insisted on drilling. This doesn’t explain why he wouldn’t know where certain stations were, but this would explain the seemingly second-hand knowledge this map seems to display if he were stuck in the hatch from the late seventies through the time in the nineties when he blew his brains out. This is assuming he had little to no contact with the rest of the Initiative on the Island. :scratchch
Also, CV for Cerberus Vent. That’s just plain awesome. :thumbs_up
Locke: “Thank you, Henry. Thank you for not leaving me.” – Poor Locke, this isn’t Cooper you’re dealing with. In some ways Ben’s much worse. And yes, you are being conned again.
This has been a good episode for Jack. He won the medicine back from Sawyer. Now he’s getting along with Kate after treating her like garbage after The Hunting Party. The hatch can even wait till morning. Say now, Jack isn’t thinking what I think he’s thinking, is he? :naughty:
Where in the world do these food drops come from? Is the Dharma Initiative still active in the outside world? If so, are they so stupid they don’t know their people on the Island were killed twelve years ago? Why are the supplies still being sent? Do they come from an alternate reality? Will we find out in Season Six? :hammersel
Locke asks Ben if he did anything to make the blast doors go up. Does Ben know the neat hotwire trick Desmond and Kelvin know to fake a lockdown and make the blast doors go up? I tend to think not, but the timing of this incident along with the food drop seems to be more than just coincidence. Frankly, it was darn right convenient for Ben so that he could prove himself trustworthy to his captors. Was Mikhail watching from The Flame and triggered the food drop to help his leader? Had the food drop already been ordered prior to this episode? I really hope we find out eventually if no more than to satisfy my curiosity.
Ben, in a shocking twist of events, has finally been revealed as an imposter. Great ending with a great reveal. :Cheers:
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