View Full Version : LOST Hiatus Rewatch #3 (09/16/-09/23/09)-S3E3: Further Instructions
This is the discussion thread for the LOST-TV Hiatus Rewatch - Season 3 Episode 3, "Further Instructions"
Written by : Carlton Cuse & Elizabeth Sarnoff
The original thread for this episode can be found here (http://losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26090).
General questions about the LOST-TV Hiatus Rewatch can be posted in the LOST-TV Hiatus Rewatch thread (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37370).
Episode Description:
Locke, Eko and Desmond after the implosion. Hurley returns to the beach camp.
Wow! I forgot so much of this episode.
I completely forgot about The wacky paste in the sweat lodge with Locke and Boone(!) It was a surprise to see Boone again. LOL I loved all of Boone's cryptic insight about all of the Losties. "Clean up your mess, John." Very weird.
What was the significance of the little dumptruck in the Polar Bear den? I wonder if all of those bones were also "a sacrifice that the Island demanded" and who they were.
The Island didn't want Locke to speak until he had something important to say which I had also completely forgotten about. :)
Naked, Psychic Desmond. He seemed fairly out of it but still knew without a doubt that Locke "said so in his speech." I'm almost half convinced that desmond thought Locke already gave his speech though, but in FB's further in the season we know that he had already "seen" Penny. Crazy.
I loved seeing Eko again, (of course) and laughed when Nikki and Paulo showed up on the beach out of nowhere.
Thanks for starting off Zia - I had no idea where to !
Just to get the trivia out of the way - where was Sawyer when the hatch imploded ! Naked Desmond, nice, but naked Sawyer, would have been better !
Nikki and Paolo ! Huh ! "Who the hells Nikki ?"
Boone had a wanky hair do, and Locke had hair ! So Boone accepted the fact that he was the sacrifice the island had to have. Hmmmm. He left his warning a little too late for Eko. Eko tells Locke he has to go find Sawyer, Jack and Kate. So far everything Locke does sems to stuff up.
Locke's fbs again show that Locke is so eager to be "friends" with someone that he invariably gets conned or taken advantage of. It'll all end in tears.
Locke seems to do best when he is working independantly, he never seems to have a successful relationshop with anyone.
We actually got to see a bit of Charlie ! When Locke can't speak and writes Charlie a note - "I need your help". Charlie comments on since when did anyone want my help, and then "What the sodding hell is a sweat lodge ?" However he sticks by Locke and is indeed some help to him.
I loved the look on Hurley's face when he comes out of the bushes with Locke's knife in his water bottle. "Dude......"
See you later.
Yeah, Locke and his whacky paste .......
That was the great thing about Charlie; He had every reason to not help Locke, but he did anyway. It's going to be sad without the great comedic duo of Hurley And Charlie in S4.
[QUOTE=ozanna;1901049]Just to get the trivia out of the way - where was Sawyer when the hatch imploded ! Naked Desmond, nice, but naked Sawyer, would have been better ![QUOTE]
THAT would've been nice! Wasn't Charlie in the hatch with Eko too? Did he run out before explosion? Can't remember. He was hilarious in his dealings with Locke (did you forget I despise you? what about your zero tolerance policy? wouldn't want you to have to start punching yourself in the face) LMAO. I will miss him.
I'm sorta tired of seeing Locke get beat down in all his fbs. Poor guy deserves a break. Depresses me!
At first I thought the dump truck showed the polar bear ate some kids? But then maybe it just collects things was another thought. The whole scene reminded me of Star Wars for some reason. I expected to find Eko hanging up from the ceiling like Luke.
Catnap
At first I thought the dump truck showed the polar bear ate some kids? But then maybe it just collects things was another thought.
That so reminded me of a Dean R. Koontz novel called "The Watcher" about 2 genetically modified dogs, one good, one bad. The bad one, The Outsider, lived in a cave and had a toy Mickey Mouse, as a sign that he was not all bad.
So sad !!!!!
Star Wars was a favourite of J.J. I think !
Charlie ran out before it exploded I think, but got hit by the aftermath, which may have caused a bit of amesia because he neglected to tell anyone where Eko and Locke were. Or something. I shouldn't rewatch when its past my bedtime ! Its just not going to be the same without Charlie.
Sorry to double post but I just remembered reading in the Author Discussion thread something about Dean R. Koonts, and sure enough it was Catnap discussing The Watcher !! Coincidence ....... or faate !!
Charlie ran out before it exploded I think, but got hit by the aftermath, which may have caused a bit of amesia because he neglected to tell anyone where Eko and Locke were. Or something. I shouldn't rewatch when its past my bedtime ! Its just not going to be the same without Charlie.
I thought Charlie was with Eko outside of the 'control room' when the hatch blew up? Did he get out of the hatch before Desmond turned the fail-safe key? I don't remember seeing that specifically.
Sorry to double post but I just remembered reading in the Author Discussion thread something about Dean R. Koonts, and sure enough it was Catnap discussing The Watcher !! Coincidence ....... or faate !!
I love that book! One of my favs.
ozchick
12-20-07, 12:49 AM
The first shot if this episode (Locke's eye, then him lying in the jungle) reminds me so much of the pilot, I expect to see Vincent running by. But it's only naked Des. You're right, naked Sawyer would have been much better. ;)
Charlie is so funny in this episode. He breaks out the "don't call, don't write" line again, and has so many great one liners. (Einsteins of the bear community :rotfl:)
You do have to feel bad for John. Just when he's in a place where he feels accepted, he gets played, again.
Here's what Boone says about the people in the airport:
Charlie, Claire, and Aaron: they'll be fine, for a while
Jin and Sun: Sayid's got it
Hurley: not him
Desmond: forget it, he's helping himself
Ben, Jack, Kate, and Sawyer: nothing you can do for them, not yet
No Sawyer nicknames. :(
This episode did show Locke repeating the pattern that happens each time he gets involved. You would think he would learn and put up his armour. You would think he would stop jumping to conclusions. This is Lost, though, everything repeats.
Twice in this episode Eko's stick is passed to Locke. Once under the blast door. Eko literally hands it to him (when he actually is trying to get leverage on the blast door). In the jungle it falls on his head.
Charlie's comedic skills were certainly showcased in this episode. Personally, I was very glad to see him in the cast and sorry if we don't see him again.
The sweat lodge scene was very interesting. That scene alone could be discussed. When Boone said Desmond is taking care of himself, it made me suspicious of him.
The roles of the losties in the SL scene: Desmond is the pilot, Hurley is the ticket-taker, Ben is scanning people for the plane's safety. Jin and Sun are arguing. Kate and Sawyer seem romantic toward each other. Jack is being scanned by Ben, in particular he is looking at his watch (perhaps indicative of a deviation in time?).
Locke is forced to crawl up the stairs. At the top of
the stairs, he again finds the Jesus stick. The stick is bloody and Boone's image has changed to his after-injury appearance.
When Locke finds Eko in the cave, for the first time, after all we have seen him go through, we see fear in his face. Of course, being in the polar bears den would make anyone fearful. Yet, if I remember correctly, he projects fear until he finally stands up to Smokie and refuses to repent.
Not a bad episode at all and when do you think they will start marketing that wacky paste?
Locke 'n' Load
12-30-07, 08:00 PM
The sweat lodge scene was very interesting. That scene alone could be discussed. When Boone said Desmond is taking care of himself, it made me suspicious of him.
Annie, I thought the same thing when Boone said that. Even though Desmond saved Charlie multiple times, his motive was to get back to Penny, not to help Charlie or anyone else...perhaps?
sgtdraino
12-30-07, 08:42 PM
I thought Charlie was with Eko outside of the 'control room' when the hatch blew up? Did he get out of the hatch before Desmond turned the fail-safe key? I don't remember seeing that specifically.
Charlie fled the hatch before it blew. He tried to get Eko to leave with him, but Eko shoved him off, and went back for John Locke. The hatch blew with Eko and Locke staring at each other in the control room, and Locke telling him, "I was wrong." I don't think Charlie got amnesia, I think he was ticked at both Locke (Pace Defacing) and Eko (for shoving off Charlie and going back for Locke), and didn't really give a hoo-ha what happened to them at that point.
So Boone accepted the fact that he was the sacrifice the island had to have. Hmmmm.
I don't think that was really Boone from beyond the grave. That was simply The Island appearing in the form of Boone, speaking to Locke.
Here's what Boone says about the people in the airport:
Charlie, Claire, and Aaron: they'll be fine, for a while
Jin and Sun: Sayid's got it
Hurley: not him
Desmond: forget it, he's helping himself
Ben, Jack, Kate, and Sawyer: nothing you can do for them, not yet
No Sawyer nicknames. :(
Interesting, wasn't it?
Annie, I thought the same thing when Boone said that. Even though Desmond saved Charlie multiple times, his motive was to get back to Penny, not to help Charlie or anyone else...perhaps?
Great observation!
I think Desmond knew that no matter how many times he tried, he could not save Charlie. He could postpone his death as many times as he liked, but eventually it would be inevitable.
On the other hand - Charlie, Claire, and Aaron: they'll be fine, for a while - does this mean that Desmond could have saved Charlie but
he got his wires crossed or something.
Locke 'n' Load
12-31-07, 04:38 AM
Here's what Boone says about the people in the airport:
Charlie, Claire, and Aaron: they'll be fine, for a while
Jin and Sun: Sayid's got it
Hurley: not him
Desmond: forget it, he's helping himself
Ben, Jack, Kate, and Sawyer: nothing you can do for them, not yet
No Sawyer nicknames. :(
This is great! What Boone told Locke in his SL vision regarding the other Losties was happening at that same time:
Charlie, Claire, and Aaron were okay for a while (until Charlie drowns).
Jin and Sun were with Sayid and he would take care of them.
Hurley-not him. the others sent him back to the beach camp.
Desmond: forget him, he's helping himself (his quest for Penny is uppermost in his mind and dictate his actions)
Kate, Sawyer, & Jack-nothing you can do for them, not yet.
Ben-as I mentioned elsewhere-he was scanning Jack at the security check in the airport (and watching him on a monitor in the Hydra cage).
Thanks, ozchick, for making this all click for me. :D
Locke 'n' Load - you beat me to it ! I was thinking along those very lines. They are clever so-and-so's aren't they !
Hurley - just a thought - but he is working on the computer at the airport. Could that have something to do with the computer in the hatch ? Not that its there any more - but numbers ........... ?
Oh, I love this show !
Locke 'n' Load
12-31-07, 04:58 AM
Ozanna, I need to watch that whole airport vision again to find other prophesies in Boone's words to Locke or in what the Losties were actually doing. Oh, boy! :D
I know L 'n' L - I actually never really clicked about that airport scene, not to this extent anyway ! I wouldn't mind seeing that scene again, and I still get shivers down my spine when I think about Sawyer's little speech to Kate - its so not-Sawyer ! Plus I really need to go through "Flashes" with a fine tooth comb ! And we've got "Strangers" coming up ! Can't wait for
that ! Plus its approx 110 degrees here today !
Happy New Year !
:manynanas:
Locke 'n' Load
12-31-07, 05:30 AM
I know L 'n' LPlus its approx 110 degrees here today !
Happy New Year !
:manynanas:
Wow...stay inside with the AC! :D
Happy New year to you also:Cheers: !!
ozchick
12-31-07, 01:51 PM
Plus its approx 110 degrees here today !
Happy New Year !
Ack! It's snowing here. Happy New Year!
[\end threadjack]
:wave2: Happy New Years Rewatchers :celebrate
L&L and Ozanna I enjoyed reading your sweat lodge comments and now of course I am going to have to watch it again.
I'm off now to try to catch up on the next few rewatches.
sweetsunray
01-24-08, 06:52 PM
Well... How curious, Locke's FB is once again about others using him, yet this time for a legal enterprise (and in the eyes of lawful citizens a good social cause... wrapping up a drug farm), and warning that Locke's family has too many secrets... Actually, to be honest it feels as if both his drug farmer family and the police officer are using him. So yeah, he felt like he belonged since a long time, but who did he belong to. They turned on him the minute he was unwittingly used, and they were more interested in growing weed, rather than being a family. The family part was pretense.
Is this a hint that the island is duping Locke, because he's amenable for coercion? Whatch out Locke! Especially in this episode... sent to save Eko from the polar bear's clutches, only to deliver him to the Smokey-visions?
After watching that cave scene over and over again, at least we viewers have been duped I believe into thinking the dharma skeletons in the cave, are polar bear leftover. The toytruck proves imo that this wasn't always the polar bear's lair. Remember the caves in S1 with Adam and Eve? And here in S3 we once again see a cave system with Dharma dead who must have lived there with their child before the polar bear moved in.
The double sided duplicity of the fb is imo a hint for us to not directly believe the goodness or badness of either the island or even the polar bears. What's the polar bear bringing a live victim into its lair, knowing that lairs are inhabitated by female polar bears with puppy polar bears? Not negating the RL danger of polar bears who are indeed known to hunt humans, but are we sure the polar bear dragged Eko into a previous Dharma inhabited lair for its lunch? After all, the Dharma polar bears figured out the cage gyzmos in less than 2 hours, and are the Einsteins of the bear community. Dharma didn't seem to be much friends with Smokey. Perhaps the Dharma polar bears aren't either? Is it possible the polar bear dragged Eko into a cave to keep it out of Smokey's way? And then dragged Eko away from Locke for Eko's own protection? It's not as if the polar bear can help it much to damage the one it might want to protect, when all it has to drag someone around are its razor teeth and clawed-paws. Yeah, I know it sounds very farfetched, but then again, the fb is full of hints that there's duplicity and misrepresentation going on.
How true it is that his Lost family has too many secrets (and he has as much). Yet the island too has too many secrets.
The FB once again hints at existential-crisis - the mental state Ben tries to push Jack towards. The community where he lived must be a legacy of Leary and Alpert's (the real one) methods. The two maintained that drugs could be used therapeutically, set up experiments at university with LSD (what made Leary most famous) but after they were kicked out set up communities in California for controlled therapeutical drug use (never for recreational use), especially to help people come to find meaning for their personal life (the are you a hunter or farmer reference), which lies essentially at the basis of an existential-crisis. FBI did its very best to close them down. And obviously Locke has learned of these therapeutical uses in an almost similar set-up, although at least Locke's community did earn money by selling weed for recreational use.
Ah, I think this episode is the best when it comes to Charlie's lines... He is on a stellar role in this epi:
- Trees? Yeah, I've heard they're wonderful conversationalists.
- Well, amusing as the mute game invariably is, you are aware, John, that I detest you, aren't you? You do remember repeatedly punching me in the face and accusing me of using heroin when I was not.
- What the sodding hell is a sweat lodge?
- You're not taking drugs are you, John? I only ask because of the strict zero tolerance policy you've enacted, and I wouldn't want you to have to start punching yourself in the face.
- Yeah, I know, I get it. You're going to go in your little magic hut and I'm going to stand out here in case you devolve into a monkey.
- Well, apparently, a bear's got him. It's just made an active kill. You may want to hustle.
- You know, when I used to get high, I'd watch nature programs on the Beeb. Polar bears are meant to be quite clever. Very clever. They're like the Einsteins of the bear community.
- Hairspray? Now, I hate to be the one to point this out to you...
- Spoken like someone who's had a few too many messes to clean.
- Okay. Well, when that [Hurley's deja vu] wears off can you get bandages from the kitchen?
Good speech, but well... he waited an incredibly long time to do what he said he would do, and even then he was mostly interested in blowing up stuff and didn't mind leaving 3 members of his family by themselves to go with the Others.
Locke's airport vision with Boone: a good rehash of it has been posted already, but there are a few I want to make additional comments about.
- Desmond as the pilot. Another word for a pilot is "captain", and thus a role befitting for a sailor and representative of the Odysseus myth on the island. More, he's got three graceful ladies at his arm, who simply seem to adore him. Desmond, as well as Odysseus, had several ladies who were smitten with him and they all broke their hearts, such as the nymph Calypso. The air-hostesses could indeed well be nymphs. And since there are three, they also might be a pun to the Fates, who also were three. And yes, Odysseus helped himself (the sole survivor of his crew) and so does Desmond. Jack had already pointed out in the finale that Desmond sailed off without ever telling anybody he even had a boat. He doesn't necessarily wants to hurt the Losties, but getting back to Penny is and will imo remain his primary goal. Not that I mind this at all so far: his story feels as if standing on its own altogether.
- Ben scanning Jack and Jack taking his watch off... The watch action is a pun imo about "watch out!" or better yet, by pulling his watch off he's letting his guard down for Ben's tricks.
- the stick: in light of the stick having already bumped him on the head (another visual pun of trying to hit it in) and only the stick being at the top of the stairs the vision mostly seems to point at using the stick.
ETA: Although I find the FB rather boring after one watch, and the story arc by itself not that much interesting, I do think this epi is simply great cinema. The island shots are simply incredible.
ETA2: Desmond nekid!!!!!! I'll go against overall desire, and say I loved it it was Desmond running around nekid and not Sawyer. Desmond's my preferred candy.
That's all I have for this epi...
GardenMom
01-24-08, 07:28 PM
Just another tidbit about the sweat lodge vision:
As Locke sees Sawyer and Kate in his vision, Sawyer is speaking to Kate and we hear:
Sawyer: ...crazy? Wipe the stars out of your eyes sweetheart. Watch and learn little lady.
Interesting to note that Sawyer's lines re-occur in the next episode of S3 - Every Man For Himself
Sawyer: You know that chick they brought in on a stretcher? That's Broken Nose Man's girl.
Kate: They call him Pickett.
Sawyer: Well, Pickett is distracted at the moment.
Kate: So?
Sawyer: Watch and learn little lady.
[Sawyer activates the shock mechanism in his cage]
Sawyer: There's juice pumping into this box from somewhere. Next time someone comes to pull me out...I'm going to wait until they step into my little swimming hole. Then I grab them. Zap! They fall back from the shock, I snag the keys. Bet the bears never thought of that.
Kate: You're both going to get electrocuted.
Sawyer: Yeah but I've felt the jolt. I can take it. But the other guy...he ain't going to be ready for it. What, you think I'm crazy?
Kate: No, I'm actually impressed.
Sawyer: Well wipe the stars out of your eyes, Sweetheart. Because, we're going to do this.
sweetsunray
01-24-08, 07:58 PM
I never knew that! I don't hear a single thing except for the nymphs at Desmond's arm giggling!
Locke 'n' Load
01-24-08, 09:35 PM
Just another tidbit about the sweat lodge vision:
As Locke sees Sawyer and Kate in his vision, Sawyer is speaking to Kate and we hear:
Interesting to note that Sawyer's lines re-occur in the next episode of S3 - Every Man For Himself
I never knew that! I don't hear a single thing except for the nymphs at Desmond's arm giggling!
Ozanna mentioned that very thing when we were rewatching “Every Man for Himself”
In December:
Hi everyone ! I just thought I'd get this out of the way first. While rewatching "Every Man for Himself" yesterday, I noticed while Sawyer and Kate are in the cage and Sawyer is plotting his next escape attempt, he says to Kate "Watch and learn little lady". He then explains his escape plan to her. Then he says "Wipe the stars out of your eyes, sweetheart."
This reminded me of something I read a while ago in Theories, "Their Dreams Come True" thread, where in the previous episode "Further Instructions", Locke is having his hallucination at the airport with Boone, where they see everyone boarding the plane. Sawyer and Kate are talking, and apparently if you do something complicated with the audio you get this from Sawyer - "Wipe the stars out of your eyes, sweetheart. Watch and learn, little lady."
I got shivers up my spine when I read this ! I don't know why, but I did !
sweetsunray
01-24-08, 11:31 PM
Ah... I haven't re-watched the next epi yet, nor read the comments... Good find by Ozanna! Thanks LnL
Sweetsunray - I actually DID get shivers up my spine when I discovered that ! I think it was the wording as well - "little lady". I do love this show !
sweetsunray
01-25-08, 12:32 AM
I think that's what so great about this show... with the many characters, their fbs, their interactions, what they say, how they say it... even though repetitive and mirrored in other characters, for each character it gets a subtle twist or difference... and at least in one of them we meet something at least once in the whole series that strikes us like a blow in the gut... for me when that happens it sends shivers down my spine.
Oh boy! I really enjoyed watching this one again. Mr. Eko rules! Locke is teetering a bit. He was talking to Mr. Eko and then realizes he never regained consciousness. And the pot farm. Again the hunter fails, so to say. I think I will watch this one again. Tomorrow while awaiting a repairman, I will watch this and Episode 4. Heck maybe I will do 1-4 and get myself in sync. :Cheers:
Just a few brief remarks because I think I will have to watch again - I find Eko and Locke's relationship confusing to say the least !
Did anyone else think that Locke's commune had some similarities to Otherton, apart from the pot aspect ! Maybe it was the attempt to create the perfect lifestyle. ? Locke seems to be easily taken in - gullible.
When Boone says Demond is taking care of himself, he sure hit the nail on the head.
When Locke is in his whacky paste induced havid, Boone tells him someone in the airport is in serious danger and Locke is the only one who can save him. Locke looks up the elevator and sees Eko's stick near a pool of blood. Boone tells him to clean up his mess.
I loved Charlie's comment about the polar bears being the Einsteins of the bear community ! Well just tell that to Sawyer !
Oddly enough, my opinion hasn't changed much since the first time I watched this episode, but of course I noticed at least a couple things that I didn't before.
I always wondered if the Sheriff that pulled Locke's truck over in the first scene was part of a set-up to start getting Locke to trust Eddie when he stated that he was Locke's nephew. Eddie did appear to look nervous or maybe just twitchy and he's 'fresh out of the academy' so, I'm suspicious. It seems a little contrived when we find out the rest of the story, doesn't it?
I loved smartass Charlies' retaliation for what Locke did to him. Hey, Locke basically publicly humiliated Charlie, and who needs that? I may have noticed before, but I thought it was great that Charlie said, "You don't get to tell me what I can do." Nice. Charlie; always the helpful, sweet guy, came through for Locke in spite of everything.
Also, what was the deal with the toys in the cave? That always bothered me. How would they get there? Obviously, if it's a makeshift polar bear den; kids wouldn't play trucks in there and I'll never believe polar bears took the toys to the cave for amusement, so forget it. LOL! Were all of the bones another 'sacrifice the Island demanded'?
As usual, I loved the airport FB and Boone!, but it made me sad because I wanted Desmond to not be 'taking care of himself' and now I think he could have been at one time, but changed his outlook, maybe it's part of Desmond being considered a coward at one time, who knows? Clearly, Penny was the driving force controlling his actions and everyone needs a goal, right?
A lot of the episode had to do with Locke trying to figure out if he was in fact a farmer or a hunter, either position offering a leadership/provider role in their little Island community, but it was far more personal that that. In the end I think Locke got what he ultimately wanted; to be considered a hunter. Eko confirmed what Locke needed to hear. (Aw Eko!) Finding out Locke was a hunter didn't come without an enormous pricetag though and he repeatedly gained and LOST everyone's respect along the way. I found that aspect of this episode very interesting. Finding your way.
I suddenly realized why we were so offended by Nikki and Paulo and that made me laugh.
Ozanna, you better watch it again before you post. Dammit!
Ozanna, you better watch it again before you post. Dammit!
Don't worry Zia, I will !
How many times have I seen this episode? I still missed things.
Trouble is, Zia, the more times you rewatch, the more things you realize you missed, and the more confused you get ! Well, that last bit I'm just speaking for myself - about the confusion bit !
It's worth the trouble. Lol!
So Boone tells Locke that someone in the airport is in serious danger and only Locke can help him. Of course its Eko, and Locke blames himself because he was wrong about the hatch. Boone tells him that this is how he will find himself again - he has lost his way. He also tells him he has to get "the family" back together. So after he comes back from the sweatlodge experience Locke tells Charlie that he has to find Mr. Eko in order to save his life.
Surprisingly Charlie insists on going with him. After being humiliated by Locke and accused of using drugs when he wasn't, and having him move in on "his girl", Charlie tells him that he doesn't like him. Ironically, after Locke's tirade against Charlie and his drugs, we see Locke on the dope farm in his fb. This farm also has a sweat lodge where people can go and "find" themselves.
Yes, Charlie was great in this episode. Standing up for himself for a change. And then offering to go with Locke to find Mr. Eko. Was it for Locke's sake or Mr. Eko ?
So they save Eko from the polar bear and take him back to the camp. Eko tells Locke that he is a hunter, not a farmer, and that he must find his friends.
Locke seems to have got himself back together and decides to go and find Jack, Locke and Sawyer leaving Eko to the tender ministrations of Nikki and Paolo, and Claire.
Why Nikki and Paolo ? Why now ?
Why Nikki and Paolo ever? http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn137/Dew2008/Smilies/confused-smiley-013.gif
AChristianShephard
07-21-08, 12:17 AM
Posting whilst wathing.
That recap of the hatch explosion felt quite emotional.
Oh my, Claire and charlie, the memories, charlies English self depreciating wit translates so well.
And locke still at one with the island, loving this so far.
Is locke actually talking directly to the island here then? Or jacob in the form of Boone? Woah.
Seems odd Desmond is shown at the airport being as he was never there. Or Ben.
Why does the island want Locke to save Eko when it kills him in a couple of weeks (island time).
And was the island talking through Eko when he said Locke was a hunter? Why?
I didn't realise they'd started hinting at the Time Travel aspects this early (Desmonds speech prediction.)
I absolutely adored this episode, no polar bear/dolphin cages, just pure island mystery. And lots of questions
Bravo 8.5/10 (backstory was a bit useless).
Why does the island want Locke to save Eko when it kills him in a couple of weeks (island time).
And was the island talking through Eko when he said Locke was a hunter? Why?
The only reason Eko was in danger at all was because Locke insisted that he also not push the button. If Locke would have just let Eko do what he personally felt the Island (through Yemi) told him he needed to do, then none of this would have ever happened. Locke had to "clean up his mess" and prove he could actually be a leader. imo.
I still think that Locke should have not gone off on his own adventures (again) and left Eko to be looked after by Nikki and Paolo. Maybe thats what Boone meant by "cleaning up your own mess".
I watched the 1st 3 epi's. I better get out of here and watch E4 :eek:
I just realized how contradictory all of the visions have seemed. Maybe two conflicting forces are giving them visions.
The island (?) tells Eko he needs to push the button.
The island (?) makes Locke lose his faith in the button. (Or it might have been testing him and Locke failed.)
The island (?) wants Locke to save Eko.
The island (?), through Eko, tells Locke he is a hunter.
The island/smokey kills Eko. (Or it might have been testing him and Eko failed.)
Eko's dying words to Locke are "you're next."
Alpert, in the past, believes Locke has chosen wrong when he picks the knife.
Abbadon tells Locke he is a hunter (basically, right?) and should go on the walkabout.
Jacob asks Locke for help.
No wonder Locke is confused. What does that island want?
AChristianShephard
07-22-08, 12:42 AM
It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever eh.
When first watching the episodes (realtime) you just assumme these things will work themselves out, but this rewatch for me is showing that the islands actions, certainly where Locke is concerned, follow no sense of logic at all, indeed Cranky, no wonder lockes scrabbling round for awnsers bless him lol.
Season 4 seems so out of character after returning here.
Dunno wether to watch ep4 now, feel like it but it's 1.38am here :mad:
1:38 am???
Are you in tomorrow land!?
When Locke first arrived on the island he "saw" the heart of the island and it was "beautiful". Did he actually see anything or was it just his own wishful thinking, so to speak. All his miserable life Locke has been waiting for something meaningful to happen to him, and he thinks that this is it. "We were all sent here for a reason".
Is Locke being controlled by two masters. Or is he so eager to be of importance that he is getting hopelessly confused, coming to the wrong conclusions and taking the wrong actions. He seems to be getting mixed messages. He is too eager to please and getting his lines crossed.
Are you in the U.K AChristianShepherd ?
I think that's one of Locke's major weaknesses. He wants to please people and be a profound leader, but his past issues keep thwarting his efforts. He keeps getting the same lesson to learn over and over and time and time again fails to learn how to overcome his past and move forward.
It seemed to me the island didn't tell Locke to stop pushing the button.
When Locke found the Pearl Station, he made an assumption the Swan
was conning him. Once again, he foolishly jumps into action and has
Desmond destroy the Swan. I hope we get to see a Locke who is not
so gullible and many times foolish (maybe dead Locke or resurrected Locke).
We see the parallel of him being gullible in the fb. This time though,
as on the island, his unsuspecting actions hurt many people. Up till
now, in fbs, he was conned, but only hurt himself.
This was all punctuated with such humor when Eko's stick hits him
right on the head.
It's hard to believe so many tragic events can happen to one person.
There was not much relief from tragedies with the exception of Helen #l.
He even fumbled that relationship for his heartless father.
I forgot to mention in the first paragraph, maybe Locke's reaction to
the Swan was him finally reacting to being conned. When you view it
in that context, it seems more believable.
The airport scene was very interesting, but I think it has all been said.
Charlies humor was at it's best and provided skillful comic relief.
Imo, it was an enjoyable episode.
I forgot to mention in the first paragraph, maybe Locke's reaction to the Swan was him finally reacting to being conned. When you view it in that context, it seems more believable.
That is a very good thought. It makes the most sense because of the way Locke just completely snapped and the amount of conviction he had when he finally made a decision and didn't waver on it. It turned out to be the wrong decision, but still, one that he actually acted on and stood behind.
AChristianShephard
07-22-08, 06:12 PM
Heya, yeah i'm in the UK, so my posting is a little out of sync with most of yours . :wave2:
I feel for Locke as he has no chance of being understood as strangely, out of all the 815'ers (minus Eko?), he is the only one that has made a direct connection to the island, the rest of the Losties just seem to conveniently forget what they have seen and pretend everything is normal.
(Apart from Hurley, who may well beleive he's still in care) :no:
Walt was another one, who he ultimately failed to communicate the islands secrets too due to a medling newbie father.
The frustration of having priveledged knowledge and not being able to share it with anyone willing to listen must be annoying to the nth degree.
And Ben just seems to be in denial of Locke, hoping he'll eventually, just quitly disappear, or die :pray:
I forgot to mention in the first paragraph, maybe Locke's reaction to
the Swan was him finally reacting to being conned. When you view it
in that context, it seems more believable.
Wow. I never thought about that.
Locke finally finds his father, puts all of his faith into him, and is conned by him.
Locke joins a commune, puts all his faith into them, and is duped by them. And he befriends a cop who cons him.
Locke finds a hatch that he puts all his faith into, and after seeing the Pearl fears he has been conned once again. He retaliates as any man in that position would do.
Tragic flaw or what?
Never learns from his mistakes. I call that dumb. :whistling
Never learns from his mistakes. I call that dumb. :whistling
Locke is desperate to believe in something - he's just not quite sure what - :D
Locke is desperate to believe in something - he's just not quite sure what - :D
This may be true but how many :doh: moments are necessary? He is intelligent and has zilch common sense. No street sence either I am sorry to say. :(
He can throw a knife. All the sense you need.
This may be true but how many :doh: moments are necessary? He is intelligent and has zilch common sense. No street sence either I am sorry to say. :(
ITA Dew, unlike Sawyer who is intelligent but also has common sense and street smarts. Makes you wonder who tied his (Locke's) shoe laces for him. doesn't it ! :D
:threadjack: -awesome walkthrough, Dew. :thumbs_up
I think Locke wants to believe in something so badly that it skews reality a little. Plus, he is a tad gullible. It got so hard to watch him make the same mistakes over and over.
ITA Dew, unlike Sawyer who is intelligent but also has common sense and street smarts. Makes you wonder who tied his (Locke's) shoe laces for him. doesn't it ! :D
:threadjack: -awesome walkthrough, Dew. :thumbs_up
I think Locke wore slip-on shoes ;)
/TJ
Thank you. I am tweaking away. It should move faster now since I got me into a groove. :D
/end TJ
Lost In A Vortex
07-25-08, 09:05 PM
Hello, Everyone... :)
This is as far as I've gotten with the rewatch; and I need to watch this one again, too..... But a few thoughts.
Seeing Locke wake up in the jungle like that brought back memories of him waking up in the Dharma pit after Ben shot him. Eerily similar, he was lying in the same position and could not speak, and in the Dharma pit, when he woke up he could not use his legs. The first person he sees after the hatch explosion is naked Desmond, who now apparently can see the future in some capacity. And the first person (or ghost) he sees after waking in the Dharma pit is Walt, who also can see the future.
Also interesting is the fact that we thought Locke was dead at the end of each season: after dynamiting the hatch to get in (S1), after the hatch explosion (S2), after being shot by Ben (S3) and finally in the coffin at the end of S4.
So it's no wonder we don't believe he is "really" dead.
The other thing is that Locke actually said point blank to Eko, "I was wrong" right before the explosion. So it's not like he will do or say anything to justify his mistakes. He admits to having been wrong. Desmond, for example, never admits to having been wrong about some of his visions, especially the one about Claire getting in the helicopter and Charlie having to die in order for this to happen.
The airport vision I find very puzzling. The line that's sticking in my head right now is the one about "bringing the family back together." So it would seem that Locke has a very important purpose to accomplish.
I never cared much for the FB in this epi. Maybe it just doesn't seem plausible to me. It just doesn't fit with "Locke the home inspector." I'm not sure where exactly this part of Locke's life fits in, timeline-wise. Just my thoughts.
I'm going to have to watch this again, though, because from reading all the posts I realize that I've missed a lot. For instance, I have no idea what you guys are talking about with the "toy dump truck in the polar bear cave!" :confused:
LOL! See? It's addictive.
"The Family" always reminds me of the Manson Family, no matter what context it stated in. It could be an indirect reference to the commune Locke was living at or just a poor choice of words, but I always thought it was a little bizarre too.
I always figured the "family" was the Flight 815 crowd.....
...now I'm wondering if it's not Jack/Claire/Aaron. They're really the closest thing to a family on the show.
Right, but what would Locke's motivation be to get involved in that odd little triangle only. I think your first assumption is probably correct, Cranky. I just still don't really see the Losties as a cohesive family from any angle.
If the Boone manifestation and the Christian manifestations are coming from the same source, and Aaron is some sort of "special" child, then I think the island/Jacob is using Locke to save Aaron.
But what "saving" him means, I have no idea. (And I'm sure TPTB don't either :nanabobo:)
I always figured the "family" was the Flight 815 crowd.....
ITA Cranky, so many of the 815ers are connected, not necessarily by blood, but by connections in their past - a sort of 6 degrees of separation situation, as if they share a common bond. "Live together, die alone". It is obviously quite important that they stay together, thus Jack's ill-begotten escape attempt did not work. It should have been all of them or none of them. I wonder if that included the red shirts !
Unfortunately Jack and Locke seem to be determined to break up "the family" because they are both right.
"Live together, Die alone" also works in this case.
But we don't like to quote Jack that much.
True, but I don't want him to start whining either. :)
True, but I don't want him to start whining either. :)
Or crying ...........:D :weeping:
True, but I don't want him to start whining either. :)
Too late.
Or crying ...........:D :weeping:
That too.
Too late.
Clearly. :D
ozchick
08-04-08, 11:39 PM
Still behind, but trying to catch up. Here are my random observations...
I miss Charlie.
I love that there are Sharpies on the island.
More nekkid Des please.
That's all I've got, other than of course the introduction of everyone's favorites Nikki and Paolo. :p
Lol! I always forget about N&P until they're actually on the screen.
Zia - I forget about them when they ARE on the screen ! :lmao:
I hope Vincent doesn't dig them up in S5 and they go after Sawyer. :rotfl:
LOST Hiatus Rewatch:
Week 17
Weds., September 16th-September 23rd, 2009
S3:E3: Further Instructions
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u34/zia29112/LOST%20Stuff/300px-Lost-season1.jpg
World Walker
09-23-09, 01:50 AM
The exact words of this episode’s title have been mentioned once before by Eko in ? when he told Locke they had to wait for further instructions when Eko wanted John to take him to the question mark. That was right before Locke received the vision where he dreamed he was Eko.
The way Locke was positioned in the jungle at the beginning of the episode was reminiscent of the show’s first scene featuring Jack. That scene also began with an eye opening rather abruptly followed by a view of a gently swaying tree canopy. Likewise, in the first scene of the show, Jack hears a noise nearby and spots Vincent. In this episode, Locke hears a noise and spots Desmond. There’s some pretty remarkable symmetry between both these scenes. :thumbs_up
As soon as Locke stood up, the Jesus stick fell out of the tree. I always got a sense that the stick falling at that particular moment was a chastisement upon Locke for his mistake regarding the hatch.
Charlie was having quite a bit of fun at Locke’s expense in this episode. I love the nod to Monaghan’s role in Lord of the Rings. “I heard trees are great conversationalists.” :)
This is the first Locke flashback episode I feel was completely extraneous. We didn’t really need to see it. It was more of the same. John put his trust in someone and he was betrayed before the end. We’ve seen it with Cooper twice now. The only real noteworthy part of the flashback was the guns and groceries scene just because of how casually Terry O’ Quinn pulled it off.
Charlie: “What’s that? You’re not takin’ drugs are you, John? I only ask because the strict zero tolerance policy you’ve enacted and I wouldn’t want you to have to start punchin’ yourself in the face.” :clap:
This episode marks the return of the fabled wacky paste! Unlike last time, Locke is using it on himself. It sure doesn’t take very long for the stuff to work, either. I find it interesting that the first person Locke sees during his pseudo-hallucination is Boone, the last guy he used the wacky paste on. I wonder if the wacky paste makes the user more amenable to communicating with the Island. Locke sure seems to think so. At least the flashback (sort of) provides an explanation for how Locke would even know about the use of wacky paste (his prior experience with sweat lodges).
Boone: “Don’t worry. You’ll speak when you have something worth saying. I’m here to help you find your way again, so you can bring the family back together.” – I’m really curious to find out what that last sentence was referring to. Who, exactly, is the family? Is Boone referring to everyone from Flight 815 who’s still alive or is he also referring to everyone who died since the crash? On the surface, it seems to be the former, specifically because of Jack, Kate, and Sawyer’s recent captivity. Yet in light of later seasons, Boone could well have been referring to the fabled reset that may or may not occur in Season Six. If we do see a reset, we will see many deceased characters alive again. Maybe Locke’s job is to gather them together once more. :scratchch
Then the dream/vision takes them to the airport. Boone says that Charlie and Claire will be fine for awhile. Charlie doesn’t die till the end of Season Three and Claire doesn’t vanish till the last half of Season Four. Locke points to Sun and Jin apparently quarreling, but Boone says that Sayid’s got it covered. The only thing I can figure out from this is that it is referring to the events from the previous episode. Hurley’s the attendant at the gate and he enters the numbers into the computer. Yet again his destiny seems to be tied to those numbers. Desmond is seen as a pilot descending the escalator with quite a few pretty flight attendants. Boone says that Des is helping himself. Could this be a reference to Des keeping Charlie alive long enough so that Charlie could unjam the Island, paving the way for Desmond to make it back to Penny at the end of Season Four? We see Jack, Kate, and Sawyer together and Ben is wanding Jack for any metals at the detector. Boone says that Locke can’t do anything for them yet, not until he cleans up his own mess.
Boone: “Clean it up, John, they’ve got him; you don’t have much time.” – Again, is Boone really referring to Eko (as it seems on the surface) or is there a deeper meaning behind this statement? After all, if a polar bear had grabbed Eko, would Boone really say they’ve got him? Besides, Eko gets killed only two episodes later, so why was it so important that Locke save him? Unless, of course, Eko was supposed to be killed by Smokey and not a polar bear. This always gets me a bit confused. :ImLost:
Again, if we see an alternate reality in Season Six, I cannot wait to see if any of this crazy dream/vision will apply to any scenes in LAX. It most likely will turn out not to be that important, but the possibilities are intriguing.
Eddie, the cop in Locke’s flashback, has a Geronimo Jackson T-shirt. This is the first time we’ve seen that name off-Island.
We got to see the crater left by the hatch in this episode. Considering how much destruction the implosion caused, it really makes you wonder how certain objects (ping pong table, Eko’s stick, Eko’s cross, exercise bike, etc.) let alone people (Locke, Eko, Desmond), made it out of there with barely a scratch. Was it the Island preventing their deaths like it prevented Michael’s suicide? If so, then how the heck did some of the objects survive, too? :hammersel
Hurley’s lucky he felt thirsty when Locke chucked his knife into the foliage! :eye-poppi
Despite Locke and Charlie’s animosity last season, I feel like they’ve come to an understanding during this episode. They seem to be getting along again during the scene just before Locke goes into the cave alone. Charlie also seems impressed with Locke’s speech at the end of the episode.
Naked Desmond meeting Hurley in the jungle was classic. “So, like the hatch blew off your underwear?” :nanabobo:
There were signs of past inhabitants in that cave. There were many bones scattered about and one skeleton even had on a shredded Dharma shirt. There was also a toy truck near the entrance. I wonder if a few survivors of the purge made their way to that cave following Dharma’s fall and fell prey to the polar bear. Either that or the bear simply dragged these former Dharma members into its cave for dinner. That wouldn’t explain the truck, though.
Desmond shows the first signs of foresight after telling Hurley about the speech Locke hasn’t made yet.
Eko’s brief lapse in unconsciousness makes me wonder whether it was really him speaking to Locke or if the Island was speaking through him.
Gotta love how Nikki and Paulo just burst onto the scene so abruptly. If their introduction would have been handled a bit more subtly like Frogurt or Arzt (with characters actually referring to them in the past), I don’t think the fans would’ve hated them as much as we did.
This episode felt a bit more even keeled to what we’re used to from this show. We finally get to see what happened to our imperiled hatch crew along with actually seeing the beach camp again. There were some pretty good moments and the dream/vision scene in the airport felt really important. :Cheers:
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