View Full Version : LOST Hiatus Rewatch #3 (09/16/-09/23/09)-S3E2 : The Glass Ballerina
This is the discussion thread for the LOST-TV Hiatus Rewatch - Season 3 Episode 2, "The Glass Ballerina"
Written by : Jeff Pinkner & Drew Goddard
The original thread for this episode can be found here (http://losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25569).
General questions about the LOST-TV Hiatus Rewatch can be posted in the LOST-TV Hiatus Rewatch thread (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37370).
Episode Description:
Sayid's ambush fails. Kate and Sawyer are forced to work. Ben makes an offer to Jack.
First post: Sun is a little lying liar!!!
Sun is a little lying liar!!!
I totally agree Zia, and I'm wondering if its because of her father, who appeared to be very domineering - when she broke the glass ballering she was genuinely scared of getting into trouble. Did she do it deliberately ? It looked like it. She seems to have got into the habit of "little white lies."
Jin is still very domineering also, especially when Sun stands up to him saying she can help navigate the boat causing Jin to think she is taking Sayid's side. I still feel sorry for Jin - he's still isolated, although Sun does appear to love him - she went on the boat becuse she didn't want to be apart from him.
Back for more later - I'm falling asleep !
I totally agree Zia, and I'm wondering if its because of her father, who appeared to be very domineering - when she broke the glass ballering she was genuinely scared of getting into trouble. Did she do it deliberately ? It looked like it. She seems to have got into the habit of "little white lies."
I don't blame her. I'm afraid of Mr. Paik too. ;)
Tambourine Man
12-15-07, 06:58 AM
First post: Sun is a little lying liar!!!
Her selling out the maid and getting her fired instead of taking the blame was definetly some foreshadowing of what is to come with Sun. Up until now, yes she was a complex character with some complex issues with her father/husband, but she seemed very honest and good. After this episode is over we know she cheated on Jin and is a murderer. When Colleen said she knew Sun wasn't going to pull that trigger, maybe the others should have gone back a little bit further in their research to the ballerina incident.
I am not saying that I don't believe that Sun is still not honest and good (probably one of the most honest and caring of the people on the island), I am just saying that after this episode the timid rich girl she protrayed alot of the time also has a very strong survival instinct.
Edit: Now I know her lying to everyone about knowing English is pretty big, but that lie was to help someone and not hurt someone.
Who did Sun murder? Although she shot Colleen, mortally wounding her, I would not call that murder. She was clearly acting in self-defense while possibly in fear for her life after being attacked by theretofore-hostile forces. Moreover, although she didn't know it at the time, the same people who we later learned wanted her for experimentation.
The ‘Others’ were aggressively, if not violently, attempting to steal the sailboat. Nevermind the fact they would have kidnapped Sun in the process had she not shot Colleen and escaped, along with Jin. Of course, one could also argue the Losties were being the aggressors at that time, having moored the boat to the 'Others' dock while setting up an ambush ashore, in which case the 'Others' were acting in self-defense while defending themselves and their territory by preventing further incursions by boat.
Ben's rationale for wanting the boat probably stemmed from the fact he knew that by capturing it, it would limit the Losties ability to travel, at least by sea. He didn't need the boat for his own use in other words.
As far as the lie she told about not breaking the ballerina, although certainly morally wrong - and I'm not trying to defend her or justify her actions in that regard -, was understandable considering she may have known the consequences would likely be out of proportion to what she had done. After all, we know her father is clearly domineering and not above violence when he is crossed. Although we don't know what Sun's childhood was really like in detail, there was clearly an inference prior to that which I feel helps explain why she did what she did.
However, I do agree that it showed she was conniving and not the innocent wallflower some may have thought up to that point.
Wouldn't an average parent have known Sun broke the figurine and not fired the maid? Throughout the story, Paik is much too possessive of Sun, or perhaps feeling she is representative of him. Sun breaks the glass, he fires the maid. Sun cheats on her husband, he sends Jin to kill her lover. In Paik's world,
others suffer greatly for the Sun's mistakes
Which brings me to the mystery of this episode. Who killed Sun's lover? It wasn't Jin, we are sure of that. I doubt it was Sun, but there is nothing to prove she didn't. It seems Paik may have sent someone as
Jin's backup. The pearls in his hand might make one think he killed himself, but I don't think so. He was begging for his life a few minutes earlier.
The reveal of this episode was the difference we begin to see in Sun's character. The theme of the episode would lead you to believe it was Sun, but the facts do not point in that direction.
On Alcatraz, Sawyer is assessing his opponents while talking to Kate. Directly after we see Ben listening to the conversation. It seems Ben is going to foil Sawyer's efforts at every turn. Sawyer is tenacious though and I don't think Ben ever really breaks him, but he comes very close.
The episodes on Alcatraz seem provide the opportunity to contrast the type of men Sawyer and Jack are, and their reactions to this dire situation.
It might be something to examine at the end of this story arc (if we can find a referee :)).
Tambourine Man
12-15-07, 06:19 PM
Who did Sun murder? Although she shot Colleen, mortally wounding her, I would not call that murder. She was clearly acting in self-defense while possibly in fear for her life after being attacked by theretofore-hostile forces. Moreover, although she didn't know it at the time, the same people who we later learned wanted her for experimentation.
No, I totally agree with you on this and shouldn't have just said "murderer" and left it like that. It was self defense, which resulted in Colleen's death, which was the survival instinct I think not only the Others (Colleen) didn't expect, but neither did most viewers up to that point.
Wouldn't an average parent have known Sun broke the figurine and not fired the maid?
I agree that firing the maid was an overreaction on the part of Sun's father and I also agree that he was likely seeing her through rose colored glasses so to speak. However, since he couldn't prove she broke it (although he may have "known" in that he sensed her lying) and she adamantly insisted she hadn't, which we know was a lie, he let his emotions get in the way.
That doesn't change the fact he is domineering and I'm sure even as a child Sun recognized that, thus manipulating him into firing the maid rather than accept punishment herself. This was likely done as a foreshadowing of the future adult Sun. It was to show us she is at least somewhat devious, conniving and in the future could possibly even be a little dangerous.
Reality is almost always at odds with what we see on TV and ones reaction is usually going to differ as well. I would not have fired the maid and had I sensed Sun had broken the ballerina and was lying, but couldn't prove it, then it would be time for a little 'talk'. The outcome of that would dictate what came next.
As far as who killed the guy, if in fact he was pushed or thrown, we simply can't say with any assurance. All we can do is follow the evidence. And in reality that is all anyone can do as well. As it stands now there is simply not enough evidence to conclusively show that anyone in particular committed a crime, or if in fact there was a crime. As I recall his death was ruled a suicide and likely for the same reason: there was simply no evidence, let alone proof, to show he had in fact been murdered.
In time we may learn how he died and if he was murdered, by whom. Whether it was Sun, Jin or one of Paik's goons remains to be seen.
ozchick
12-16-07, 01:48 AM
While you all discuss Sun, Jin, and Paik, I simply must start with the end of this episode. :D I am a die hard Red Sox fan and when this episode first played I was screaming at my tv when Ben showed Jack the footage of the Red Sox 04 World Series win. I totally missed what was going on with Jack, because I was looking at the reflection of the tv in the glass, and reveling that they were using the actual footage, and re-rejoicing with Foulkie, Tek and the rest of the team. That sequence made me brave enough to post my picture here for the very first time, which you can see behind the spoiler tag if you really want. :p
I'm still waiting for the 07 trophy to make it around. :D
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l256/ozgirl100/trophy1.jpg
A few days after this episode first aired, there was a piece in the Boston Globe about how they used the footage. You can read it here (http://www.boston.com/news/globe/living/articles/2006/10/13/giving_themselves_an_out/), but the jist is that they always knew they wanted to show something on TV to prove to the Losties that the Others had contact with the outside world. When the Sox won in 04, they wrote the first line Christian said about the Sox never winning, planning even from then for it to be the setup for S3. Carlton Cuse (a Sox fan) and Damon Lindelof (a Yankees fan) have apparently had tension. :p It does show that they do have a plan. (I hope.)
Ok, enough about the Red Sox, now I can talk about the rest of the episode.
Sun's lies become apparent. She lives in a world of power and deception, and learned both from Paik. Paik uses the same "hand on the shoulder" move with Jin that Christian uses with Jack, to show care and "fatherliness".
I think Jae jumped. He believed Jin was there about Sun, and while in a way he was, Jin never knew about Sun and Jae, he was just following Paik's orders. The pearls in Jae's hand are really what make me believe he jumped, knowing he could never have Sun.
I'm sure there's a great thesis to be written about the concepts of shame and honor in Lost, tying in elements of Korean cultural values, but I am too tired to think that hard right now. :p
A bit about Josh Holloway. He is so good and continues to bring layers to the character of Sawyer. When Pickett tells Kate she could take the dress off, Sawyer leers at her and appreciates the mental picture of her nekkid, then sees the disgusted look on her face, and switches to indignation on her behalf. All in a matter of seconds, but JH does an admirable job of letting us know exactly what Sawyer's thinking without any words.
Sawyer nicknames:
Freckles: Kate
Shortcake: Kate (I love this one!)
Hi Annie - Yes, you'd think that Mr Paik at least would have realized that Sun was lying. I hope that he gave the maid a big settlement ! Its sad to think he has brought her up to think that she is invincible as far as the law goes and can lie her little head off !
Because I still haven't worked out all the inricacies of Sun, I'll just go briefly to your comments on Jack and Sawyer - bet you knew I would ! Its very interesting how their characters have almost turned around. Sawyer has shown that he is constantly thinking and trying to devise ways of extricating himself (well, all of them) from these dire circumstances. He has street cunning and is very intelligent under all the crap ! Jack is the leader but cannot cope when he is not in total control. When he ws in the Hydra he was practically hysterical, and behaving totally irrationally. I am sure he was concerned for Kate and even Sawyer, but he doesn't know what to do. Yes, Annie we could have a great discussion about this !
Was Sun right in shooting Colleen ? Why not, I don't think Colleen would have hesitated if the boot had been on the other foot. As Badgersaid they had no reason to trust these people, and it was a spur of the moment action. The only thing I object to is that Sawyer inadvertently copped it for Colleen's death ! But actually that was sort of poetic justice, as Sun indirectly got her revenge on Sawyer for his and Charlie's bogus kidnapping attempt ! "It'll all come back around" Sawyer !
Ozchick - thats a great picture - I would have done the same thing if it were me !!!!!
Sun's lies become apparent. She lives in a world of power and deception, and learned both from Paik. Paik uses the same "hand on the shoulder" move with Jin that Christian uses with Jack, to show care and "fatherliness".
I noticed Paiks hand on the shoulder too and agree to it's general meaning, but if I ever see anyone doing that in RL now: I would see it as a precurser to disaster because of LOST. Lol
I think Jae jumped. He believed Jin was there about Sun, and while in a way he was, Jin never knew about Sun and Jae, he was just following Paik's orders. The pearls in Jae's hand are really what make me believe he jumped, knowing he could never have Sun.
I agree. I was on the fence about what exactly happened with Jae Lee, but really made an effort to figure it out this time. I think it's obvious that he was distraught that he couldn't have Sun because he had the pearls in his hand when he conveniently landed on Jin's car. That scene was awesome-BTW.
The question is: Did Jin know? From the conversation they were having it remains unclear. When Sun was on the beach with Sayid and Jin, she said: "He knows I betrayed him." and then flashes back to Jae Lee. It makes me wonder if she was referring to Jae Lee as well as the ambush on the beach. It seemed like Jin might have been sending Jae Lee his own message as well as Paik's.
JIN [subtitled, punching Jae]: Do you know who I am? Do you know why I'm here?
JAE [subtitled]: I'm sorry.
JIN [subtitled]: Then you know what I have to do.
[Jin puts a gun to Jae's head. Jae starts crying.]
JAE [subtitled]: I'm sorry. I'm sorry.
[Jin won't kill him and pulls the gun away.]
JIN [subtitled]: You will leave this country. Do you understand me?! You will leave and never come back. Start a new life. And if I hear you've returned -- if you have any contact at all -- I will finish this. Am I clear?! You don't exist.
Everything about Sawyer was inspired in this episode. Josh Holloway really put his heart and soul into this character and never looked back. (imo)
It's funny to me that Ben said they know everything, when they didn't even know about the boat.
So, how did they think Desmond got to the island? Did Kelvin have any contact with the Others? How would you 'hide' a boat that large in the first place?
They seem to have eyes all over the Island, so, it doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Jacob didn't know about the boat either, eh? Interesting.
Ozchick
I just had to comment on that scene with Sawyer trying to look up Kate's dress ! I can't believe I left that out ! I remember giggling like an idiot at that ! The look of outraged indignation on his face - Who ? Me ? You're right about JH, he has done such a good job with Sawyer. I was reading an article somewhere, where Carlton Cuse says he actually loves Sawyer, he is by far his favourite character, and JH has improved so much since the beginning he should be an international star by the time "Lost" ends. Now watch them kill him off ! He does more with his eyes than most people can do with their whole body.
Ozanna, Don't curse Sawyer! I don't trust TPTB. ;)
I know Zia. I wish I hadn't said it ! But CC has always had a desire for Sawyer, right from the start !! Scary isn't it !
I also believe that Jae killed himself. Despite Sun and her deviousness, I can't somehow see her killing Jae, specially not by pushing him out of a window. Sounds like Cooper and Locke !
The only thing I object to is that Sawyer inadvertently copped it for Colleen's death ! But actually that was sort of poetic justice, as Sun indirectly got her revenge on Sawyer for his and Charlie's bogus kidnapping attempt ! "It'll all come back around" Sawyer !
:yeah: Karma is a *#@&^!
Sure is Badger !
Just briefly, I loved Sawyer's defiance. How many times did he get tazered - 2 I think, and that time in the cage ! He's alays trying to think ahead. Why did Kate tell him to stop checking out her "ass" ? I remember her saying the same thing, sort of, to Jack a while ago.
I loved Sawyer's defiance too. They know he's a force to be reckoned with. He was great knocking Pickett down a few pegs and taking on all of the armed guards.
Kate has said, "stop staring at my ass" or something similar to Jack, I love that about her. She doesn't let anyone get away with anything.
I hate what they're doing to her character-wise now, because she's always been one of my favorites.
Damn! Did I just say that? I hope she doesn't get killed off now.
Don't worry Zia - they won't kill Kate - besides she's been in a ff so ... OK I won't say anything ! I wish they'd try and strike a happy balance with Kate. First off she was just over the top bossy to start with, but at least she had cojones. Now she's degenerated into this silly, whiny, self obsessed little thing "torn between two lovers, which one should I chose........!"
I really don't care who she ends up with - I just hope she's not pregnant.
A bit about Josh Holloway. He is so good and continues to bring layers to the character of Sawyer. When Pickett tells Kate she could take the dress off, Sawyer leers at her and appreciates the mental picture of her nekkid, then sees the disgusted look on her face, and switches to indignation on her behalf. All in a matter of seconds, but JH does an admirable job of letting us know exactly what Sawyer's thinking without any words.
Sawyer nicknames:
Freckles: Kate
Shortcake: Kate (I love this one!)
:yeah:
He is absolutely amazing (acting and looking!) I never have any trouble believing JH is Sawyer and truly in the situation he is in on the island. I remembered not liking The Glass Ballarina that much, so I was pleasantly surprised with all the great Sawyer scenes. I think I was remembering the business with Sun, and I didn't like her or her father much after that epi!
I think Jae may have killed himself, but more from an honor and desperation standpoint than losing Sun.
Don't worry Zia - they won't kill Kate - besides she's been in a ff so ... OK I won't say anything ! I wish they'd try and strike a happy balance with Kate. First off she was just over the top bossy to start with, but at least she had cojones. Now she's degenerated into this silly, whiny, self obsessed little thing "torn between two lovers, which one should I chose........!"
I really don't care who she ends up with - I just hope she's not pregnant.
True! LOL.
I don't like whiny Kate either. Character assassination-imo. ;)
Catnap - JH truly is Sawyer isn't he ? I hope that doesn't hinder him getting other roles when "Lost" finishes !
Zia - There's been plenty of character assassination ! I actually didn't mind Jack at the beginning - OK he was a bit of a control freak, but somebody had to do it. Unfortunately he forgot to include everyone else in his plans !
When Sawyer told him about meeting his dad, Jack was obviously moved by it - well he cried ! - But he couldn't seem to let Sawyer know that he appreciated it - he is emotionally constipated, if you'll pardon the expression !
And then the dreaded triangle started and - well, the rest is history !
I am actually starting to quite like Juliet - ducks for cover ! It'll be interesting to see what happens to her !
OK I'm going to start watching "Further Instructions". We've only got 2 more days, well you guys have got 3 !
When Sawyer told him about meeting his dad, Jack was obviously moved by it - well he cried ! - But he couldn't seem to let Sawyer know that he appreciated it - he is emotionally constipated, if you'll pardon the expression !
Jack is completely emotionally constipated. That's a perfect description! LOL
OK I'm going to start watching "Further Instructions". We've only got 2 more days, well you guys have got 3 !
I know. Same here. I'll watch it tomorrow, today for you. :D
Juliette??? Are you serious? I don't trust her at all. LMAO
Juliette??? Are you serious? I don't trust her at all. LMAO
I knew you'd say that Zia ! There's just something about her ! She has been manipulated as much as anyone else. OT but I saw her in "The Santa Clause 2" last night ! I can't believe I've admitted that I watched it, but I do love a Christmas movie ! Next week they're screening "National Lampoon Christmas Vacation" again !!!!!!! Will I or won't I ?! I love Cousin Eddie !!!!
I liked her in Santa Clause 2, (she was cute!) but that's no reason for me to trust her in LOST. She's just too shady. I think she has her own agenda contrary to Ben and also Jack.
I knew you knew I'd say that-BTW. :)
Hardy-hardy har Zia - resisting urge to say "I knew you knew .......!"
Night 'night, sleep tight .....
Sun DID NOT kill Jae Lee. It was in podcast. (So maybe it was suicide.) Well, we now have evidence who did not kill Jae Lee.
I'm jumping the gun and doing a little compare/contrast.
Jack's escape attempt--the very first time Juliet comes in the room, he
bolts. He goes to the wrong door. Why didn't a guy with his intelligence
figure the door in which Ben entered, was the way out?
He's letting Juliet get into his head. He doesn't say show me that piece of
paper or ask for proof. He doesn't ask how in the world would you know
Sarah is happy. He takes what she says as dogma.
Why is Jack not using his intelligence? He lets his emotions interfere.
Sawyer's escape attempt--first time it was handed to him on a platter.
Then he seems to be developing a plan. He's assessing what skills his
opponents have. He discusses it with Kate. He makes wisecracks/mocks his opponents,
imho, in an attempt to throw them off-guard by evoking emotional reactions. In future episodes we see more of his
thought process.
BTW when I wrote about this episode, I had already watched further instructions and went into it here. Would you like me to delete it? I was so anxious to look at S&J and see what would shake out. (I have more thoughts on the comparison).
Also, with the mirror theories going around, I thought I would
have found many more duplications in "The Tale of Two
Cities". I thought that of course because of the name of
the episode, but I didn't find that many. Those that linked to
other episodes seemed to be more important. The two showers,
the glass reflections, the handcuffs cropping up again, and within the episode, "Let it go".
I'm really beginning to believe Garden Mom has something with
her thread on the Lost kids. In the commentary,the Juliet actor
comments that Kate looks like she is seven years old (while
watching her not eating breakfast). Then she starts laughing,
perhaps realizing Kate at seven exists in the show. Carlton
quickly changes the subject, but he does laugh a little.
It was an oops on her part, not a hint as I had thought before.
Someone asked why would Kate eat the whole fist biscuit if
she had the strawberries. Well, thanks to Brian, we now
know she didn't go right from breakfast to the cage. What
went on in that shower was enough to make anyone hungry and
we know more time passed.
I'm writing this at 5am after some serious internet shopping, so
I hope it all makes sense. :wave2: rewatchers!
I'm not sure I'm getting the whole Strawberries thing. Yes, Sawyer said Kate tasted like Strawberries, but wasn't that like the next day (the day after Ben's breakfast)? They were sleeping and then Sawyer woke Kate up with the fish biscuit music, then they were sent off to work with lunch pails. I would think by that point they would both have some pretty harsh morning breath/haven't brushed my teeth in days. Maybe Kate had strawberries in her lunch pail?
ozchick
12-17-07, 07:54 PM
I don't think the strawberries line has anything to do with Kate's breakfast. I think Sawyer's trying to lay on the charm. He knows how to flatter a woman, and since Kate was brought to the cages he's been trying to comfort her from across the way. They've been stuck in cages, of course they haven't brushed their teeth. But even tough Kate can appreciate being made to feel attractive, even if she knows it's not true.
*waits for Ozanna's obliglatory Sawyer commernt* ;)
Oh Okay - I think Sawyer just wants to make Kate feel good, she's brought out his protective instincts !
Good grief if anyone looked at me the way he's been looking at her lately, I would just melt !!!! Anyway, look whats coming up - I don't think they were too bothered about fish breath then ?
tellthemmrekoletyoulive
12-17-07, 10:00 PM
Hey Zia! Is there going to be a chat this week?
Anyway, look whats coming up - I don't think they were too bothered about fish breath then ?
Can't wait! Love that scene!
*wishes she could be Kate's sex scene double*
Catnap - If you get too tired I'll be YOUR double !! (Runs off to brush teeth, just in case !)
Hey Zia! Is there going to be a chat this week?
Sure. Why not? Mr. Cluck is doing something in main, so we can take over East Coast Live.
Can't wait! Love that scene!
*wishes she could be Kate's sex scene double*
:rotfl:
Catnap - If you get too tired I'll be YOUR double !! (Runs off to brush teeth, just in case !)
:rotfl:
LMAO!
*gargles with strawberry mouthwash*
*lends some to ozanna*
LMAO!
*gargles with strawberry mouthwash*
*lends some to ozanna*
LMAO! :rotfl:
Thanks, Catnap !!!
You both just made me laugh really hard...again! :D
Happy to oblige Zia
:celebrate
I suppose I'll have to go and watch "Every Man for Himself" now. Oh, the things we have to do ! Siiiiiigh !
:woot3:
Why in the world did I ever comment on those strawberries? :(
See what you did, Annie !!!!!
Now you know what sort of people you're dealing with !
Besides, they're better than fishbiscuits. :D :nanabobo:
Unlocke Locke
12-28-07, 11:48 PM
Its still a mystery to me why whatshisname hates Sawyer so much. I was watching for that and I still don't get it.
Its still a mystery to me why whatshisname hates Sawyer so much. I was watching for that and I still don't get it.
This is just my wild imagination again ! After Sun shot Colleen, Danny's wife, he couldn't take revenge on her, so I guess the next best thing was Sawyer, who was a captive Lostie, not the most charismatic person, even to his friends ! I assume Danny loved Colleen and when he saw Sawyer's and Kate's blossoming love it enraged him that they could experience it and that he had had his love taken away from him. Just a thought. It did seem slightly over the top, though !
Also another wild thought (I'm full of it !), after Sawyer and Charlie's kidnap attempt on Sun, which inadvertently led to her injury, this is like her indirect payback to Sawyer - not that she would have intended for that to happen, but like a sort of "cosmic payback" - "it'll come back around" ! Now their slate is clean - she has had her revenge. Does that make any sense at all ? I'll go and take my medication now !
sweetsunray
01-23-08, 11:41 PM
The theme of this episode seems to be more about how to make someone cooperate (instead of breaking them). This episode, both in fb is full of different tactics:
- (1) You can punish somebody else than the target: Punish the maid for Sun's lie; Have Jin murder Jae for Sun's liaison (not only is Jae alone punished for it, but Jin by being ordered to murder Jae); Sawyer's shocked for Kate's rebellion... and there's more to come, because it's basically the Other's tactic to have Kate do as they will; Threatening to kill Kate if Sawyer doesn't let go of the gun; Sayid wanting to capture two Others prison where he'll use one to make the other cooperate (he thinks like the Others)
- (2) You can punish the target themselves: Jae's supposed to be punished for touching Sun; Sawyer's shocked for beating up the Others
- (3) You can deceive them: Sayid deceiving Jin as well as Sun deceiving Jin in order to have him do what he would normally refuse to do; Sawyer deceives the Others in showing their strength by kissing Kate; Jack recognizes the Others could tell him anything and he has no idea on whether they're telling the truth
- (4) You can choose not to punish at all and just tell them you know they failed you: Jin does this to Sun several times and she feels more ashamed and remorseful about it than when her dad made someone else pay for her mistake; Sun and Jin don't even make much of a scene towards Sayid who repents at the end; Jin does not punish Jae
- (5) Or you can punish yourself even: Jae punishes himself by jumping down from the balcony; Jack becomes catatonic after facing Sarah's past accusations, how he beat up his dad, and having Kate and Sawyer captured because of his failed plan
- (6) And in the end, when they choose to cooperate, you reward them: Jack learns he may get to go home
What it says about the punisher as well as of the one who's required to cooperate depending on the tactic, I'll expand upon later.
The Glass Balerina
The incident says more about Paik then it says about Sun as a child imo. Come on, who has never dropped something like a vase or statue on purpose as a young child just to see what would happen (or in other cases hurt an animal)? And who confessed to it? I remember dropping a vase once when I was 7 or 8 at my grandparents'. It's a natural inquisitive nature of a child just to see what happens, experimenting to see that which they were told in theory would end bad does in fact end bad or not. I'm quite sure Sun dropped the glass balerina on purpose, as such an experiment.
And just like I was shocked to see the vase smash into pieces, so was Sun. Just look at that child's face when she sees it smash into thousand pieces. Seeing the results was lesson enough and did not require any punishment. For a child, to see something shatter or hurt/dead is so shocking to the notion that nothing bad can happen to them that it's lesson enough for a lifetime, certainly if they did it on purpose to test it.
I tried to repair the vase with glue (pritt...lol) and felt utterly guilty realizing I had broken something of potential value, and still I lied about the culprit: told the cat had broken it. Sun recognizes she did something she shouldn't have but is also fearful of her father becoming mad about it over it. My grandfather was kind and told me it wasn't important, which only made me even feel more guilty and I never did such a thing again; let alone lie about it. Paik handles it differently and wants to make it into a lesson about lying and punishes somebody else as a consequence of Sun's lies.
However, it only taught Sun that lying was necessary, the opposite of Paik's goal. Worse even, it taught her that if she maintains the lie she does not have to think back on her actions. By focusing on the lie, Paik overshoots her actual original mistake. And besides, no kitch glass ballerina is worth putting a maid out of work, nor threaten Sun over it. Even if Sun nodded she understood what firing the maid meant, I doubt she actually did. Some things are worth making a fuss about, and some things are not.
Did Paik know Sun lied? Of course he did. If a child broke something by accident, without malicious intent, they'll automatically tell the truth. I'm quite certain that if I had knocked that vase to the ground by accident, I would have run to my grandpa with the broken pieces in my hand and would have assured him I didn't do it on purpose. It's when children realize they did something bad with intent that they feel the need to blame somebody else for it. And that's how you know easily enough when a young child's lying.
Anyway, what a bully Paik is to fire the maid over the glass ballerina and make this into a dramatic lesson about lying. Confront children with the facts and show how you can tell they're lying, but punishing somebody else for it just makes it worse. Even lying is a natural phase of a child, and even without the dramatics most will grow out of it.
Catatonic Jack: someone mentioned how this epi shows the difference between how Saywer and Jack's minds work. I agree there is a big difference, but there's also a big difference in situation.
Jack is totally isolated and knows nothing about either Kate and Sawyer and has no surroundings to assess the situation. Sawyer and Kate's situation is different: they can talk to each other, interact with several Others etc... They're getting some kind of input to check their ideas on; there's action and reaction. More, Sawyer's put in a cage that inspires him to make his mind work. And even though it's not something to wish for, the chain-gang gives Kate and Sawyer something to do.
Jack has nothing, no natural environment, nobody who tells him anything, reveals him anything about the situation, has nothing to do but going nuts, and some chains to yank (he did figure out the hydra was under water and the chains were used to hold a shark). Jack is deprived of any stimuli, except his guard (Juliet) and food. This would utterly numb the mind, certainly because Jack is also dehydrated. At the start, he used whatever in his means to learn more about the situation, but after his break-out attempt, he has learned there's nothing so far that he can do about it. And he can't.
I've heard about isolation rooms and how even the bravest man could be threatened by being put in isolation to make him comply. Reading up on solitary confinement at a glance on the web I've come across the clinical observation that it can often bring about states of depression as well as an existential-crisis. Together with the fb Jack experienced about Sarah's utter rejection of him, I'd say he's right in the middle of such a crises. And he looks like it too. He's so deprived of mental stimuli that he has no reaction capacity even anymore.
It is partly Jack's nature: his mind tends to think along this way... what can I use as a stake to make an exchange with the other party. But leave him in the dark what his stake is and that of the other party and he's immobilized.
But it's mostly the isolation imo: social experiments where someone volunteered to lock themselves up on their apartment for several days in a row and keep a diary about it have shown an immense decrease of mental capacity across several days, and it starts after a day. Simple social deprivation, lack of human contact, makes healthy, normal and stable people go gradually nuts, despite having stuff around. Jack's not a stable person and he has no stuff around.
I think Ben wants to push Jack towards an existential-crises and plans to keep him with the Others. However, in order to turn him he must strip Jack from his earlier goals through a sense-of-life crises and invent himself a new life with the Others.
The fact that Ben doesn't do half as much to push either Sawyer or Kate across that existential crisis line tells me that he has no plans to keep either two of them in the long run. And Ben knows exactly how long it will take him to turn Jack: 2 weeks. After that even Kate will be expendable.
Sawyer-Kate interaction
On the beach there wouldn't have been a "How dare you!" LOL. At least he realizes Kate really has no appreciation of it while a prisoner and tries to choose her side. But he can't help himself and take several peeks up that dress.
Sawyer reminds me of some smart-a$$ teen or something with the following...
SAWYER [raising his hand]: I got a question, boss.
PICKETT: No questions.
SAWYER: She got to ask a question.
PICKETT: If you try to run off, you will be shocked.
SAWYER: Shot?! We don't even get a warning?
PICKETT: Shocked. I said, shocked. If you talk to each other you're going to be shocked. If you touch each other, you're going to be shocked. If you're slacking, you're going to get shocked. Matter of fact, if you do anything at all that pisses me off, you're going to get shocked.
I think I can haul that straight out of a classroom scene at the school where I teach, LOL ... well except for the "shot" and "shocked" of course. Typically try to turn the situation into a discussion kind of thing.
KATE: I'm not doing anything until I see Jack.
[Pickett walks toward her, then shocks Sawyer with a taser-like device. Sawyer drops to the ground.]
And well Kate never tries a thing again, does she? Their tactic to punish Sawyer for her impertinence works. Put that in contrast with Paik warning Sun he'll have Jin do more dangerous and amoral work and Sun telling Paik to go ahead. Sun was taught early on not to let her father's threats dictate her choices, even if he followed up on his threats.
But Kate chooses the opposite.
We do know of course that Kate has seen her mother be maltreated for nothing, and Kate abhors maltreatment, so much that she'll jump in and save them without even asking. Kate has always been sensitive to how much others hurt (over-sensitive), whereas Sun was in fact desensitized from it by her father.
SAWYER: Whatever you say, boss.
SAWYER: Yes sir, boss.
It's clear Sawyer has been in a long-term situation where others tell you what to do, mean business, and you don't get to ask questions. He tried like any teen at the start, but once he knew the barrier he complies outwardly.
Sayid's plan and the building fire scene:
Wow, Sayid can lie with a face of steel... We should have asked ourselves much earlier about him "and what do you know about lying, Sayid?" For two seasons he's been sniffing out liars and traitors, and it becomes clear that this probably is because he himself is a good liar. We can deduct this by the analogy with Sun realizing Sayid is lying to her because she herself knows a thing or two about lying.
When Jin shows to Sun he knows she's been lying to him, yet doesn't make more of a scene out of it, we get to see Sun actually regretting her behavior for the first time, certainly compared to the lying she did in this epi (both fb and on island).
Sawyer's trap to start a fight with the others and measure their strength (the kiss):
It ends with Juliet holding Kate under gunpoint. That's the second time she's getting a gun against her forehead to make men drop their guns. Well, and it seems Sawyer doesn't drop it as instantly either as in the Hunting Party. He even looks disappointed over the fact that he will have to stop his antics. The caring look of worry he had in the hunting party in S2 or in the previous epi when they brought Kate to her cage never appears even.
Kate doesn't seem to think it was such a smart act and almost rolls her eyes (like she rolled her eyes when Jack told her not to go after the second Other in the finale of S2)
Anyway, Sawyer's busy trying to figure out the gizmos ;) Good for him, but not for long.
Jae's suicide
I think it WAS suicide... Jae seemed to have been an idealist, a daydreamer who didn't feel comfortable in the world he grew up in. Yet he didn't seem to be the bravest of men either. He's all finery, knowing English, etc but the man doesn't seem to dare and make a life by himself much. I get the impression he needed Sun to dare and do what he always dreamed about (going to the US), much in the same way he used to need his US ex-gf prior to that, because he can't do it alone. He comes across a rather "weak" from the beginning. The confrontation with Jin magnified this for Jae and so he kills himself.
Back to Catatonic Jack:
Juliet's soup is still untouched, so is his water. Ben figures out he needs to stimulate Jack a bit, or the guy won't have much brain left: Jack still needs to have some neural activity left in order to hold and use a scalpel after all. And the stimulation is Ben introducing himself to Jack: it bring variation of people Jack meets, enough contact to make Jack more inquisitive again (get those neurons to work) instead of slipping more into the abyss before it becomes permanent damage. Notice also how Ben snaps the chair open. The sound alone is meant to acquire Jack's attention from whatever brooding's going on in his mind.
It works. At first Jack is unresponsive, not because he's being a stubborn child, but because his mind is seriously drifting by now. He seems to wake up and then asks Ben what he wants in a way that says, "just leave me be, leave me alone."
It's interesting how Ben starts out by saying attitude but changes it into perspective. I used to think he altered the word in order not to push Jack back into obstinacy. But I think Ben does want Jack to get a new perspective: invent a new meaning to his life.
Jack's starting to wake more and more and now starts to focus on the situation again by asking about Kate and Sawyer. When he doesn't get any significant input he reacts dejectedly and yet makes an accurate assessment of his situation: You can tell me anything you want.
Once Ben talks about cooperation he's putting a stake for Jack out there and Jack's poker attitude resurfaces. And then comes the stimulating scenery of the Red Sox winning the series.
There's Jack in his existential crisis and he learns and sees that the Red Sox won the world series, something his father always told him would never happen. Plus since a long while Jack had given up hope of ever being able to leave the island. Already early on in S1 he made survival on the island his goal, rather than waiting for rescue... that's why he advocated the caves. Jack hasn't been thinking about getting home for over 1.5 season and now he's stimulated with the idea it's possible, or at least contact may be possible.
The shot of this scene is powerful imo: we don't get to see the scene of the Red Sox winning fully on tv, but as a reflection on Jack's mesmerized face.
Imagine how the guy was deprived of any stimulus for about 2 days, he's numb and then gets to see colourful images on a tv set on a world he has hardly thought about for the past 50 days and then it's even about something he wouldn't even have believed happening in the outside world... that's just mind-blowing. Jack can be glad he has some brain left after watching that. :D
SAWYER: Whatever you say, boss.
SAWYER: Yes sir, boss.
Sweetsunray - I wonder if Sawyer ever saw "Cool Hand Luke" ! It was such a great movie, and Sawyer really reminded me of Paul Newman with the "boss" dialogue ! And the fake grovelling attitude !
sweetsunray
01-24-08, 12:42 PM
Sweetsunray - I wonder if Sawyer ever saw "Cool Hand Luke" ! It was such a great movie, and Sawyer really reminded me of Paul Newman with the "boss" dialogue ! And the fake groveling attitude !
He probably did. We can see how he acts differently depending on his guard... he tests Picket first with his teen act. But it's clear Picket means business and has no patience for the act and will do as he threatens physically, so saying "yes, boss," is the best way to deal with Picket. Yet although that's how he acts to Picket (as if Picket is his mean bully prison guard), he can at the same empty the water cannister before Juliet's face. That too is a test.
Those scenes were inspired! Josh Holloway truly owns his character.
Those scenes were inspired! Josh Holloway truly owns his character.
Ain't that the truth ! When I see JH in an interview or whatever, apart from his looks and his voice he is absolutely nothing like Sawyer. Its almost scary how he so totally gets into the the character. Everyone else you can see they're acting - JH "is" Sawyer. I wonder if his wife ever feels like she's being unfaithful ! I love Sawyer, - Josh seems like a nice guy !
Glass ballerina. I forgot how mean Sun could be. She lied to her father about breaking that figurine. She didn't care the maid would get fired. Made me realize she is out for number 1, herself and, it seemed, to hell with everyone else. That is until her daddy finds her and then sends poor Jin to do the dirty deed. Isn't it amazing how they each were thinking they were they for different reasons than the actual ones? I still cannot figure out who pushed Sun's lover from the balcony. Jin was in his car already. http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn137/Dew2008/Smilies/confused-smiley-013.gif
I'm in the jumper crowd, I don't think anyone pushed him. He was holding the necklace, after all.
And Sun not taking the blame as a child was understandable on some level, it builds a nice theme and gave her characters something else to overcome (since she already completed the "liberated housewife" arc.)
I think Jai Lee jumped out of the window, but it was never really clear if he was coerced by someone or if he was just distraught.
Could be. Problem is we will never know. I just suspected that Sun's dad had someone backing up Jin because he knew Jin might not be able to kill Jai.
Well, it's just going to have to be one of those LOST mysterys that we'll never know the complete answer to.
Lost In A Vortex
07-13-08, 06:58 PM
I also think that Jae jumped, just because he was holding the pearls. But who knows, anything's possible on LOST, and we might learn more in another flashback next season, as the Sun-Jin-Paik story is far from over.
I didn't think she broke the ballerina on purpose. I think she was just so utterly terrified of her father that she didn't dare tell the truth. Kind of an interesting turnaround, that she owns the company now.
When Sun broke the glass ballerina she guiltily ran back to the piano and continued her practice. When Paik asked her who broke it and she said the maid did, he looked disappointed. I think he would have liked her to confess so that he could administer some sort of reprimand in order to instill some sort of respect in her. But Sun was obviously scared of him, and besides that, being punished would create disorder in her privileged young life ! Princesses don't get punished - they have people to do it for them !
As for Jai, I'm pretty sure he jumped out of the window - I honestly can't see Sun pushing him. It may have been a matter of honor. He loved Sun and wanted her to go to the States with him, but she wouldn't leave Jin. So he took the pearls that he had tried to give her, and he did the honorable thing - he jumped. He had betrayed Jin and the Paik family.
Just a bit of trivia but when Sun and Jin and Sayid were on the boat and they came across the dock in Alcatraz, Sun questioned what it was doing all the way out there - and Jin responded "Others" ! Took me back to the start of S2. "Udders, udders"!
Locke 'n' Load
07-15-08, 01:17 AM
Did anyone else notice the scar across the base of Jae's skull when he was in bed with Sun? At first I thought it was just a crease in his skin, but I backed up the DVD and paused it to get a better look. It indeed is a scar. Wow! I wonder what happened. Is it the actor's scar or Jae's scar?
If it was the actor's scar wouldn't that mean he almost lost his head? :eek:
Randy Nations
07-15-08, 02:05 AM
The actor is Tony Lee. I looked him up on IMDB for his bio. It said he was a swimmer and swam in college. That's all I got.
(doesn't seem like an injury you would get in the water......)
The actor is Tony Lee. I looked him up on IMDB for his bio. It said he was a swimmer and swam in college. That's all I got.
(doesn't seem like an injury you would get in the water......)
Unless he got snagged in a seining net. Nah :no:
Randy Nations
07-15-08, 02:12 AM
Unless he got snagged in a seining net. Nah :no:
I had to look that up! I take it you are familiar with fishing. I actually was thinking that a diver might suffer an injury like this one. But, it didn't say he was a diver. Wow.....the trivial stuff I will become interested in just because the show is on hiatus.....yikes.
Lost In A Vortex
07-15-08, 02:44 AM
* Just a bit of trivia but when Sun and Jin and Sayid were on the boat and they came across the dock in Alcatraz, Sun questioned what it was doing all the way out there - and Jin responded "Others" !** Took me back to the start of S2.** "Udders, udders"!Yes! That is exactly what I was thinking then too! :)
Hard to believe that was all the way back in the beginning of S2!
Yes! That is exactly what I was thinking then too! :)
Hard to believe that was all the way back in the beginning of S2!
Its amazing the things we remember ! Poor Jin, he must have been so confused at times. :confused:
It's weird to see Daniel Dae Kim being interviewed and speaking perfect english, isn't it?
He was in Australia, Melbourne, at the beginning of the year. On "The Morning show" he told the presenters that his Australian friend had told him there was an Aussie expression "don't put all your poo in one sock". Poor guy - they cracked up and told him his friend had made a d... of him ! He took it so well - he is just a real charmer. He came into the studio with a coffee from Starbucks that he got on his way from the hotel. No airs and graces from our lovely Jin ! He has to return !
I'm hoping we will see Jin again too. He and the actor that played Jae Lee
are friends.
This episode presents the worst (almost) of Sun and the best of Sawyer.
First, I love the image of the glass ballerina turning as it falls. The beginnings
of Lost are always so special, but in different ways.
My thoughts are Little Sun should have took the rap for what she did.
Her father may be harsh, but I don't believe he was abusive. She would
have probably had a lecture, but weigh that against a woman losing
her employment. I saw Sun as the spoiled little rich girl. Especially because
Paik knew she did it.
I also believe this incident establishes Sun's character as a woman
who will lie, despite the fate of others. Later on in the show she lies
twice to Jin. Jin does catch her in one lie, the only time I believe she was
caught. As the Series procedes we see her lies escalate and the
burden usually falls on Jin. I'm not saying Sun is evil, but she will lie
when she wants things to appear a certain way. Let's say she tells
selfish lies.
Sawyer is at the top of his game here. Why? Perhaps because he's been
jailed before so NBD. Perhaps it's because he is somewhat isolated with
Kate and finds he revels in being her protector. Under this duress has he found how much he truly loves Kate?
There is also an intelligence about the manner in which he is adapting.
He assesses (sp?) his opponents. He observes carefully and even
tests his opponents. He develops plans. It's a shame sneaky Ben
was eavesdropping.
Jack is at a distinct disadvantage. I was reading SSR's analysis of
isolation and deprivation of stimulation. The thing about it is he does
pull himself out of it and help save his friends.
Cranky was mentioning above the benefits of this forum. Had we not been
rewatching, I might have thought this was a hohum episode. I would have been so wrong.
AChristianShephard
07-20-08, 12:10 AM
I didn't really get much from this episode, which is slightly worrying as it's one of the ones i remember the most.
Nice to see a bit of others v lostie jungle scene action which has been sorely missed.
This ep confirms what i thought 1st time round, very unfocused and unelegant way of limping towards the tumor plot.
Meh
Boston Redsox are world Campions? haha
5/10 for Sawyer, Sayid and Bens performance (with a nice bit of brooding from Julliette).
I think they are just trying to correct themselves, which is good yeah? I doubt the tumor angle is an angle, but we will see, maybe?
What angle? A tumor is or it isn't and um I vote for it is. :)
Lost In A Vortex
07-20-08, 02:15 AM
Hi, everybody... :)
A few thoughts. I don't think a child of little Sun's age really understands what it means for an adult to be fired from a job. I mean, they know the basic concept, but they really don't have the understanding of the consequences. I think that Mr. Paik is a worse person than little Sun for lying, if in fact he really did fire the maid. But I don't think he actually did, I think that was just talk.
And I agree, Sawyer is excellent in this epi! On the rewatch, I can appreciate the fine points of his performance and storyline more than on the initial watching, when back then all I wanted to see was the mysterious Others' village, and it was just maddening that they weren't showing it!
The incident with Sun shooting Colleen still to me seems rather murky. Why did Colleen go to the boat alone, anyway? And that whole conversation about not being the enemy. Maybe I need to watch that scene a couple more times, but it never has made very much sense to me.
AChristianShephard
07-20-08, 11:11 PM
Yeah it ties in with Ben always saying 'we're the good guys' doesnt it.
I'd of lied if Piak was my dad, what a scary father.
I got the impression that Ben has done all this before, he only panicked when Widmore changed the rules, Locke is a muppet seriously. Who haven't we seen together? Just hope they (the writers) can explain!
Lost in a Vortex, you are right about little Sun. I guess I saw it
more as a foreshadowing of her behavior in the future.
I'd of lied if Piak was my dad, what a scary father.
Hell yes! What an angry, hateful person to have looming over you as a kid. I would have been scared to death if I was her. I don't blame Sun for lying. I think Paik is one of the scariest characters on LOST.
ozchick
07-29-08, 01:12 AM
Here I am, still woefully behind, but trying to catch up.
Some thoughts...
We see little Sun practicing her piano to a metronome, a device that is all about keeping time.
I love the scene with Sawyer's reaction to the idea Kate could take her dress off.
I think the music from the FB scene with Jin and Sun fighting about Jin having to work for Paik is the same basic theme as the music from the chopper scene in the S4 finale.
Someday, when it's all over, I want to watch this story chronologically. At least each character's story.
I'm sure this echos what I wrote during the first rewatch, but as a proud member of Red Sox Nation, I LOVE LOVE LOVE the ending of this ep. :D
Ozchick - I love your reaction to the Red Sox ! I know how I felt when my national basketball team won the Grand Final ! Me and my son went bonkers!
Metronome - that brings back memories !
Poor Sun - she was the poor little rich girl who had it all, but in reality had not much of anything.
LOST Hiatus Rewatch:
Week 17
Weds., September 16th-September 23rd, 2009
S3:E2: The Glass Ballerina
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u34/zia29112/LOST%20Stuff/300px-Lost-season1.jpg
World Walker
09-22-09, 02:19 AM
That was a very nifty close-up shot of the glass ballerina as it fell oh-so-gracefully at the beginning of the episode.
Little Sun is playing piano in the next scene. We get a close-up of a metronome (a time-keeping device) ticking away. Seeing the metronome reminds me of Daniel’s childhood flashback and his uncanny ability to count the exact number of ticks. The presence of the metronome is also a subtle tip of the hat to the significance of time on this show.
I’m under the impression Paik (who is no dummy) pretty much knew that Sun broke the ballerina, but he went ahead and fired the maid anyway. That man is pretty frightening, so I don’t blame Sun too much for lying. Heck, I lied to my parents at that age when I thought they’d be angry at me for something. Yet this lie affected the livelihood and possible welfare of another person. This was not a good experience for Sun and it unfortunately colors her decisions as an adult.
Although we still get Jack, Kate, and Sawyer in this episode, we’ve added Sayid, Jin, and Sun to the mix. We won’t get to our full cast till the next episode.
Ben: “You never made soup for me.” – An early indication of Ben’s rather unhealthy fixation on Juliet. :slap:
You know what I’ve always wondered? Ben was pretty adamant about getting Desmond’s sailboat away from the Losties. Well, not only will he possess the sailboat, but the Others also have that big ship seen in Stranger in a Strange Land and they had another which they gave Michael. Yet we never really see those boats ever again. Where are they supposed to be docked? They weren’t at the barracks dock, because only the sub was docked there. They weren’t parked outside the Pala Ferry. The vanishing ships just always bugged me. :hammersel
There are some absolutely wonderful shots of the sailboat against the backdrop of the Island in this episode. :thumbs_up
Sun’s infidelity has been confirmed in this episode. We are beginning to see more of the picture between Jin and Sun. At first Jin seemed like the bad guy, but we got to see more of his story. Now that we’re seeing more of Sun’s story, we’re seeing her less as a victim in all of this.
Kate: “You expect me to work in this dress?”
Pickett: “Well, it’s up to you. You can take it off if you want.”
Sawyer looks at Kate prospectively, with a hell-yeah! expression on his face, then turns to Pickett when Kate looks at him crossly: “How dare you!” :roll1:
That took balls for Jin to announce his intentions to quit to Paik’s face. Notice how Paik goes from heavy-handed “you will do this” to a softer approach calling Jin his son and pleading that he has to “restore our family’s honor.” Those good old manipulation strings are gettin’ a-plucked.
That must be the runway Sawyer and Kate were forced to work on. Their jobs were to break and haul away the rocks from the worksite. This would logically create a nice flat surface, good for a runway. Amazing to think that Ajira Flight 316 would make an emergency landing on that very runway three years later. Who told the Others to construct the runway, though? It would take quite a bit of foresight. This gives me the impression that it was Jacob’s idea, so that those who play a part in the end-game could arrive back to the Island in one piece. :scratchch
Alex about Karl: “He wasn’t even supposed to be in that cage.” – That’s an interesting quote. If he wasn’t supposed to be in the cage, where was he supposed to be? Did she think they would throw him into Room 23 right away or was there another place she expected him to be taken? Does his presence in the cage in the last episode play into the idea that the Others wanted to set Sawyer up in a fake escape attempt? Hard to tell with these conmen!
Sayid’s plan to capture some of the Others sounds good in theory, but he really didn’t count on them coming in from sea. Even if he had thought of that, tangling with these people on their own turf without significant help is a bad idea. At least he took his defeat gracefully at the end of the episode and admitted he was wrong.
Jin: “I do this because that’s what it takes to be married to you.” :no:
Juliet and Sawyer’s brief interaction with the canteen was fairly amusing. I find any early Sawyer/Juliet interactions interesting in light of their eventual history on the show. At this point who would’ve thought those two would end up together?
Sawyer’s fight following the kiss was pretty damn awesome! He really had a good chance, too, if not for Juliet quickly nabbing Kate.
Poor Sun! I would be frightened out of my wits if I was alone on that sailboat and I heard footsteps as it was being boarded. In fact, she was lucky she even got away without so much as a scratch. Tom even got two shots off at her. It could’ve been a lot worse.
That’s ironic how Jae jumped (or was pushed if you believe that his suicide was staged…) and landed right on top of Jin’s car.
Sun seemed to be startled by the boat’s engine just as Colleen began approaching her. I doubt Sun really intended to shoot Colleen, but she clearly seemed startled and she actually pulled the trigger as a reflex.
Ben has himself a nice big laugh regarding the prisoner/captor switcheroo between himself and Jack. Then he introduces himself for the first time. “My name is Benjamin Linus and I’ve lived on this Island all my life.” I love how even this simple statement contains a lie. By the way, has anybody noticed how well they named this character? Even his last name (Linus) contains the word lie.
Thanks to Ben’s footage of the Red Sox win, we have our confirmation that the Others can communicate with the outside world just fine. It is also heavily implied that they can come and go from the Island any time they want. Jack does bring up a good point, though: “If you could leave this Island, why would you still be here?” What are the Others’ mission? Is it to protect the Island? Worship Smokey? Serve Jacob? I really hope we find out all there is to know about them in Season Six.
This episode was considerably better than the first episode of Season Three. There were some pretty humorous moments, too. We’ll have to see how the next four episodes of the mini-series stand up in comparison. :Cheers:
I didn't rewatch this one for the 4rd time but my sentiments are the same as they were last season. We see the hard and self adsorbed side of Sun and the better side of Sawyer. RIP Jae, we hardly knew you.
I will watch it again but I am glad I remember this one fairly well. :)
So Sun breaks the glass ballerina and scuttles back to her piano. When her father asks her about it she has no qualms in lying, and blaming the maid. He wishes that she would own up to it, and show some regret. He would like her to learn some lessons from her mistakes and to be prepared to make up for her sins. He is certainly a strict, hard man, but I think he genuinely wants her to become a better person. But she has been spoilt and over-indulged.
When she is older Paik catches her in bed with Jai Lee. He is deeply ashamed of her, and she knows he knows and asks him not to tell Jin. Paik sets Jin the task of stopping Jai Lee's steaing (Sun?) from him. Paik tells Sun "My shame is your shame".
It doesn't appear that Jin kills Jae Lee. Jin was already sitting in his car when Jae Lee fell onto it.
Yes, Sawyer was great in this episode - he tries so hard to keep Kate's spirits up. He kisses her and gets tazered and beaten up. And all the time he is planning how to suss out the Others and see what they're made of. Meanwhile Jack, the leader, is having hissy fits and sulking, while Sayid, Jin and Sun are galloping gallantly (sailing) on the way to rescue.
Have to mention Sawyer looking up Kate's dress - he is such a sleeze, but such a loving one ! His look of righteous indignation and "How dare you" was priceless.
Ok. How freaking scary is Mr. Paik? I'm surprised Sun didn't jump out the window. If I was her, I would've lied about everything when I was little just to not have to deal with his wrath. He is stone cold.
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