View Full Version : LOST Hiatus Rewatch #3 (10/14/09-10/20/09)-S3E13: The Man From Tallahassee
This is the discussion thread for the LOST-TV Hiatus Rewatch - Season 3 Episode 13, "The Man From Tallahassee"
Written by : Drew Goddard & Jeff Pinkner
The original thread for this episode can be found here (http://losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32309).
General questions about the LOST-TV Hiatus Rewatch can be posted in the LOST-TV Hiatus Rewatch thread (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37370).
Episode Description:
Locke reveals he wants to destroy the Galaga as Ben manipulates him so it prevents Jack and Juliet leaving the Island. Jack is reunited with Kate.
Well this was an interesting epi. I don't know where to start.
Firstly Sayid was sadly underused ! He is seen briefly in the beginning trying to restrain Kate from running straight out and giving them away to the Others in her efforts to get at Jack. The next time we see him is towards the end of the epi when he is chained to a swing set and being guarded by the Others.
Back to Jack and Kate, I remember mentioning in SIASL that Jack was really going to make Kate feel that he had betrayed her - well this was it. Sure he stayed behind to do Ben's surgery and help him recover, but he did have his own agenda. Anyhow he appears to be very palsy with Tom, shakes Ben's hand and chats happily with Juliet ! Locke mentions that "This is going to be more complicated than we thought !" Kate is going ballistic, and they eventually come up with a plan to get to Jack ! When he is alone.
They find their way to Jack's room where he is playing the piano. Kate goes in while Sayid and Locke keep watch. "Hi" says Kate. Jack is not too impressed - honestly Jack, the things this poor girl does for you - sleeps with Sawyer ........ oh Ok, maybe not that ....! He tells her to get out - no one asked you to come ! Now thats just plain ungrateful ! Then a group of Others burst in dragging Sayid with them. They ask who else is with them and Kate says "No-one."
Kate is taken to what looks like a recreation room, handcuffed and is sitting on a pool table when Tom brings his friend Jack in to speak to Kate. As he leaves he gestures upwards and tells Jack to be careful. Camera ? Again Kate asks Jack whats up with him and he yells at her that she shouldn't have come back. Then he cries. Give it a break Jack. He finally tells her that he's done a deal with Ben and is going home (He whispers that he will come back and get the rest of them). Juliet comes in and tells him its time to go. So she is going too, huh ? Poor Kate.
Again Kate asks Jack whats up with him and he yells at her that she shouldn't have come back. Then he cries.
*shocked* NO! Jack? :D
Is there no recourse for an actor who can shed tears on camera?
*shocked* NO! Jack? :D
I know Zia - I was astonished ! :rolleyez:
Sorry Annie - but he does it too often and for all the wrong reasons. Kate is the one who should have been crying. I don't have a problem with guys crying, but not as much as Jack. :D
I know Zia - I was astonished ! :rolleyez:
Kate is the one who should have been crying. I don't have a problem with guys crying, but not as much as Jack. :D
I don't have a problem with it either-at all, but it is a lot. I know he's an emotional guy and that's fine, but...it is a little much.
I agree. Poor Kate! I am surprised that she didn't cry.
Poor old Locke has certainly had a crappy life. At first I thought his interview about his Disability Insurance was about his paralysis, but it turns out it was for depression after he had donated his kidney to Cooper !
He tries to stand up to Cooper after Cooper's girl friend's son appeals to him to try and prevent Cooper conning his mother. Locke tries to stand up to his father - what does he get for his trouble - Cooper kills the son and then pushes Locke out of an 8th storey window causing his paralysis. No wonder Locke denied any knowledge of his parents !
Ben is such a devious bastard - its hard to know whether he is sucking up to Locke, or ridiculing him. He gives a good argument for not blowing up the sub but then apparently encourages Locke to do it. I loved the expression on Locke's face when he bumps into Jack on the way back from setting the explosives and there's this huge explosion behind him !
I loved the expression on Locke's face when he bumps into Jack on the way back from setting the explosives and there's this huge explosion behind him !
Yes, a cross between an expression of innocent befuddlement and a matter of fact look as though he was saying "what did you think I was doing, playing Tiddly-Winks?" In fact, he uses that same expression rather often.
I know it well, as I too often have an expression of innocent befuddlement on my face. :innocent:
ps: Ok, I may not be innocent, but I'm often befuddled. :boggled:
I know it well, as I too often have an expression of innocent befuddlement on my face.
Why does that not surprise me, Badger ?
ps: Ok, I may not be innocent, but I'm often befuddled. :boggled:
You forgot this part. :D
Poor Locke had a terrible life, but by thoughtlessly telling Cooper about
the kid, the kid was killed.
About Jack's tears, how do we know whether it is indicated by the director
the character should cry? Does Matthew Fox, just throw in the tears for
good measure? Who exactly is overcrying, Fox or his character?
I was converted over to the Sawyer camp and am still somewhat there,
but since season 3 rewatch, I have a foot back in the Fox camp. (*ducks
for cover*).
Back to the rewatch, Kate might not be crying because she knows Jack
saw her sleeping with Sawyer. She initiated this tangle of betrayals. She also ruins Jack's chances of leaving CH with her rescue expedition.
Locke blows up the sub, even though I believe he knows Ben
wanted him to do that. Locke is diligent. Whether he is doing the island's
bidding or has his own motivation, once he decides, he stays the course.
Hi, Annie :wave2:
Jack's crying I would hope is the director's cue - Jack is supposed to be the sensitive caring guy, as opposed to Sawyer's rough and don't-give-a-damn type of guy. But you can have too much of a good thing. I remember back in S1E9 I think, the golf course scene, where Sawyer wanders up to watch the Island Open, and when people actually greet him and talk to him, he kind of ducks his head away almost as if he is overcome with emotion. OK, a bit over the top maybe, but I found that heaps more moving than Jack shedding bucket loads of tears at the drop of a hat ! :D
But just because some of us (me !) aren't that keen on Jack, don't feel bad about it ! I really don't hate him, its just that sometimes he's just too good to bear ! :mad:
As for Kate, I really don't think she ... well, thinks ! Not with her brain anyhow ! She tends to cause a lot of trouble with her spontaneous acts of foolhardiness ! Sawyer isn't perfect, either. Well, not quite ...!
What a load of dysfunctional people ........ :confused:
Locke blows up the sub, even though I believe he knows Ben
wanted him to do that. Locke is diligent. Whether he is doing the island's
bidding or has his own motivation, once he decides, he stays the course.
Locke is diligent, but Ben is a better master manaipulator. I think Ben knew exactly what he was doing with Locke.
Locke 'n' Load
01-12-08, 06:29 PM
I love, love, love, love this episode!
“This is gonna be more complicated than we thought.” I love Locke’s assessment of the situation. I also liked that he had a plan. He was there for Jack, and yes, he did have a second purpose. I guess you can say he’s a multi-tasker. :D He reminded Kate that it was indeed Jack that they were seeing (after she declared it wasn’t him because he might have been brainwashed) and if he was shaking hands with “The Others”, he had a good reason for it. I like his defense of Jack. It showed common sense and respect.
I loved the scene in Ben’s bedroom after Alex went to get Sayid’s pack for Locke. John asked if “get the man from Tallahassee” was a code and Ben deadpanned, “No, John, unfortunately we don’t have a code for ‘there’s a man in my closet with a gun to my daughter’s head’, although we obviously should”. LOL….funny stuff. (I love Ben at moments like that).
I wish Jack could have elaborated on the kids that the Others took when Kate questioned him about in it in the rec room. He said they were “safe”. My guess is he didn’t really know anything about the children but because he knew he was being observed and listened to by Ben (or someone else) he said that for their benefit.
I was really bothered by Jack’s statement to Kate that he trusted the others because Kate told him to (to keep them from killing Sawyer). She asked you to operate, Jack, not trust them. To throw that incorrect, twisted justification for his actions in her face was malicious manipulation on his part, imo.
We saw Locke looking at Ben’s glasses as they waited for Alex to return. I wonder if there is any significance to that. He had just asked Ben how he got sick (tumor) in the first place (since the island has great healing properties). So, maybe he just wondered why his eyes were impaired and not healed by the island, hence his need for glasses.
I loved the moment that Sayid told Alex she looked like her mother. When she said her mother was dead, Sayid said, “I’m sure that’s what they told you”. I bet he felt that conversation was worth the extra beating Pryce gave him for it.
“I hope that box is big enough to imagine yourself up a new submarine”. LOL! Have I ever said how much I love Locke?
There are Locke-bashers out there who call him names but in the end they will see the truth. Mark my words…and I will be happy to eat them if I am wrong!
The exchange between Locke and Ben regarding cheating while living on the island was very interesting. I’m not sure what to think of it yet. He said Ben was cheating and being a hypocrite in regards to the island. He elaborated by saying Ben (and the others)didn’t deserve the island because they communicate with the outside world, come and go as they please, have electricity and running water, and guns (Sounds like Jacob’s hate of technology). But, I’m not sure what Locke (and Jacob) would want. Do they want to live in tents or log cabins? …and then what?
Another classic exchange in this episode: Ben arrogantly declared to Locke that he was born on the island (Liar!) and John had only been there for eighty days. Then Ben smugly asked Locke, “How do you think you know this island better than I do?” Locke simply replied. “Because you’re in the wheelchair and I’m not”.
I, too, loved the look on Locke’s face after the sub (or something) blew up.
“Oops! I did it again!” LOL! :blowup:
The magic box: Ben said that Locke brought his father to the island; he also says that the box brings your greatest desires. This doesn’t make sense after he told John that he (Locke) loves the island (paraphrasing) because it is the one place his father cannot reach him. He is free from Anthony Cooper on the island as well as being whole physically. I think it was Ben’s desire to have Locke’s father there, especially since he was the one who told Richard to fetch him. Ben had a plan to use Anthony Cooper to manipulate Locke.
Quoted by Ozanna to Annie: But just because some of us (me !) aren't that keen on Jack, don't feel bad about it ! I really don't hate him, its just that sometimes he's just too good to bear!
I actually like it when Jack is being good. I dislike him because he is mostly arrogant, rude, and full of himself. He usually treats others in an off-handed way. He doesn’t do things democratically, but believes he is king almighty, imo. “Good Jack” is always a welcomed surprise. :D
from Zia:
Locke is diligent, but Ben is a better master manipulator. I think Ben knew exactly what he was doing with Locke.
Yes, but Locke has a better relationship with the island and most likely sees through Ben. :D
The exchange between Locke and Ben regarding cheating while living on the island was very interesting. I’m not sure what to think of it yet. He said Ben was cheating and being a hypocrite in regards to the island. He elaborated by saying Ben (and the others)didn’t deserve the island because they communicate with the outside world, come and go as they please, have electricity and running water, and guns (Sounds like Jacob’s hate of technology). But, I’m not sure what Locke (and Jacob) would want. Do they want to live in tents or log cabins? …and then what?
I do think Locke wants everyone on the island to live off the land. There are obviously special properties on the island which apparently drew the Dharma Initiative to it in the first place. How they originally located the island; I have no idea.
I think Locke feels that by using electricity, technology, weapons, etc. they are diluting/polluting the island instead of 'communing' with it's true and higher purpose.
Transcript:
BEN: Why are you so angry, John?
LOCKE: Because you're cheating. You and your people. Communicate with the outside world whenever you want to you... you come and go as you please... you use electricity and running water and guns... you're a hypocrite... a Pharisee. You don't deserve to be on this island. If you had any idea what this place really was... you wouldn't be putting chicken in your refrigerator.
BEN: You've been here 80 days, John. I've been hear my entire life. So how is it you think you know this island better than I do?
LOCKE: Because you're in the wheelchair and I'm not.
Locke 'n' Load
01-12-08, 11:04 PM
Thanks, Zia!
I just love that exchange between Locke and Ben. :D
Same here, LnL.
I liked that suddenly Locke had power and control and Ben was losing his composure. Any interchange between Ben and Locke adds to the intrigue of LOST. imo.
I loved this episode too.
I actually like it when Jack is being good. I dislike him because he is mostly arrogant, rude, and full of himself. He usually treats others in an off-handed way. He doesn’t do things democratically, but believes he is king almighty, imo. “Good Jack” is always a welcomed surprise.
Great post Locke'n'Load - ITA - what I meant was more on the lines of Jack being smug and superior and making out that he is little "Mr. Perfect Pants". When he is being a bit humble and is prepared to listen to someone else's point of view - great ! But unfortunately that doesn't seem to happen too often. I'm ashamed to say I can't think of anything offhand, but I'm sure there are times when he has treated other people as his equal ! Thats "good" Jack !
Locke 'n' Load
01-12-08, 11:57 PM
what I meant was more on the lines of Jack being smug and superior and making out that he is little "Mr. Perfect Pants".
I know, ozanna, You used the perfect words: smug, superior (in his mind), and "Mr. Perfect Pants". LOL! :roll1:
:thumbs_up
Oh dear, this Magic Box has got me so confused ! I know this epi has only just touched the surface of the damn thing, but its future is just so intriguing and I really hope that we will eventually get some sort of explanation of what is actually going on, and how Cooper did get to the island, and what was the reason, and is the bastard going to stay dead ....... !
I think this is one of my favourite mysteries, well I suppose it involves some of my favourite characters ..... Sawyer, Locke, Ben, Richard ..... When you think how fascinating this is, you wonder how that stupid triangle even rates a mention !
I forgot to mention Tom warning Jack about the surveillance in the rec room. What was that all about?
As he leaves he gestures upwards and tells Jack to be careful. Camera ?
That puzzled me too, Zia. Although after their game of football together, maybe they are new best friends !
sgtdraino
01-13-08, 06:14 AM
Locke is diligent, but Ben is a better master manaipulator. I think Ben knew exactly what he was doing with Locke.
The thing that still doesn't make sense about all that, is that Locke was going to deal with the sub with or without Ben's "manipulation." What was the point of it? Ben didn't need to do anything and Locke would have still taken out the sub. So what did Ben think he was accomplishing?
The thing that still doesn't make sense about all that, is that Locke was going to deal with the sub with or without Ben's "manipulation." What was the point of it? Ben didn't need to do anything and Locke would have still taken out the sub. So what did Ben think he was accomplishing?
Maybe he just wanted to give Locke the idea that thats what he wanted him to do, thus putting Locke on some equal standing with him, except that "I'm more equal than you are !" Locke was a serious fan of Ben to start with and Ben with Locke - but now the power struggle is starting. And Richard isn't helping. Locke got very upset when he was telling Ben that he was a hypocrite and they were not treating the island the way it was supposed to be treated.
Just a thought ! :D
:wave2: Ozanna I'm going to withdraw my comment. It's late and I'm tired.
I think the motivation for Ben was to feel like he had some control over the situation, even though he didn't.
Locke 'n' Load
01-13-08, 04:41 PM
I think the motivation for Ben was to feel like he had some control over the situation, even though he didn't.
I agree, Zia. Locke was going to blow it up anyway, Ben knew it, and then he got to say afterwards (was*that* in this episode :D) about being stuck by his promises (which his people heard) and then John "comes striding out of the jungle" with the solution to his problem.
Right. Ben said the sub maintained the "illusion" that they could leave whenever they wanted.
So why now? I thought some of the 'group' were growing increasingly disenchanted with the project and Ben's leadership and were thinking of bailing out, so this was his only solution.
ozchick
01-13-08, 09:37 PM
I think this episode is a big reason why Terry O'Quinn won the Emmy this year. I would say the exact same thing if Michael Emerson had won. They both did excellent work in this episode. The scenes between the two of them are fantastic.
I also love the scene with Kate and Jack in the game room. When Kate realizes that Jack knows about her and Sawyer she realizes that she can't try to play it both ways and have the both of them. She's already chosen.
I also love the scene when Sayid tells Alex she looks like her mother.
I also love the scene when Rousseau is looking at Alex through the trees.
I also love the (almost duplicate) shot of Locke looking down into the sub.
I also love that Cooper is drinking McCutcheon's before he pushes John out the window.
I also love this sequence:
LOCKE: Where do you get electricity?
BEN: We have two giant hamsters running on a massive wheel at our secret underground cave...
There's lots of things I love about this episode. :D
Alex says "He makes you think it's your idea, but it's his." Isn't this Sawyer's definition of a long con?
A mystery I still want explained: why Locke is wet on the dock. Unless he put C4 on the outside of the sub as well?
Twice now we've seen "Dad?" at the end of an episode. I wonder if that will happen again. Perhaps accompanied by tears. ;)
No Sawyer, no nicknames. :(
11Rooster11
01-14-08, 08:54 PM
Don't forget the other big conspiracy from this episode...
John knew exactly where the light switch was in the Galaga. Had he been on one before? Was he in fact a Naval Commander as he told Ben?
Sorry I've been MIA for a while. I gave my season 3 set to my parents so they could watch before I rewatched. They raced through pretty quick and now I'm catching up. I'd be lying if I said I'm caught up on the discussion (and I probably won't try) but I think I'll finish out the discussion here until we have NEW episodes to talk about in a couple weeks :D
Locke 'n' Load
01-15-08, 01:27 AM
Don't forget the other big conspiracy from this episode...
John knew exactly where the light switch was in the Galaga. Had he been on one before? Was he in fact a Naval Commander as he told Ben?
That's very interesting, Rooster, I didn't notice that. Thanks! :D
*goes back to watch that scene again*
Sorry I've been MIA for a while. I gave my season 3 set to my parents so they could watch before I rewatched. They raced through pretty quick and now I'm catching up. I'd be lying if I said I'm caught up on the discussion (and I probably won't try) but I think I'll finish out the discussion here until we have NEW episodes to talk about in a couple weeks :D
Welcome back, Rooster! I got behind schedule because of RL and missed a week or so myself! :(
Welcome back, too Rooster. If its any consolation, we're probably going to have heaps of time to discuss whatever we like after the first 8 epis of Season 4 !
11Rooster11!! Welcome back! :)
Conspiracy, eh? Hmmm....
Hollysasquatch
01-15-08, 09:32 PM
Hello, everyone. I just got caught up; I had never seen Lost until I began netflixing it a few months ago. Now I'm hooked!! I love the interaction between Locke (one of my favs) and Ben. I think that Locke has been to the island at some point, just because he's always been so comfortable there since the begining. And I do think that he knows that Ben is trying to manipulate him, but he's too smart for that. He's been manipulated too much in the past, so he's learned his lesson.
Welcome to the circus (that is LOST), Holly! Nice to have you aboard! :)
Enjoy your time here and feel free to jump in anywhere. :wave2:
Welcome to the circus (that is LOST), Holly!
Somebody needs waffles for dinner...
Hollysasquatch
01-16-08, 02:04 PM
Welcome to the circus (that is LOST), Holly! Nice to have you aboard! :)
Enjoy your time here and feel free to jump in anywhere. :wave2:
Thank you! I love it here!
:Cowdance::cheers2:
Just getting caught up myself - what a great epi, so many mysteries. Yes, why is Locke wet? What a nightmare his real life away from the island was. I find it hard to believe he would still call Cooper "dad". Yuck. Funny how Locke is watching "Cobra" on tv (Expose, I guess the show is called) - hard to catch since we hadn't seen Expose at that point. I'm not looking forward to rewatching that one, but, at least Sawyer is in it!
11Rooster11
01-21-08, 06:10 PM
I'm sure this isn't unique and has probably been discussed elsewhere but I have a thought about Ben's Magic Box.
Let's assume for a moment that there is something to Ben's words. I don't mean literally but lets say that people's desires can somehow be made "real." Ben said that Cooper just showed up. He said that John brought him to the island. It seems to me that the person that would truely want Cooper is Sawyer. Sawyer's quest to find "The real Sawyer" may be responsible for Cooper's arrival.
Ben then uses to Locke's relationship to manipultate John into thinking that Cooper is John's problem. Ben knows that Locke will be unable to "solve" (read as kill) Cooper. He figures John will appear as weak or as a failure and thus not be a threat to his leadership. But he doesn't count on Richard spilling the beans about Cooper's relationship with Sawyer.
If there is any validity to the "box" I'm guessing Sawyer is the one responsible. Makes you wonder what some of the other losties conjured up.
Hollysasquatch
01-21-08, 06:18 PM
I'm sure this isn't unique and has probably been discussed elsewhere but I have a thought about Ben's Magic Box.
Let's assume for a moment that there is something to Ben's words. I don't mean literally but lets say that people's desires can somehow be made "real." Ben said that Cooper just showed up. He said that John brought him to the island. It seems to me that the person that would truely want Cooper is Sawyer. Sawyer's quest to find "The real Sawyer" may be responsible for Cooper's arrival.
Ben then uses to Locke's relationship to manipultate John into thinking that Cooper is John's problem. Ben knows that Locke will be unable to "solve" (read as kill) Cooper. He figures John will appear as weak or as a failure and thus not be a threat to his leadership. But he doesn't count on Richard spilling the beans about Cooper's relationship with Sawyer.
If there is any validity to the "box" I'm guessing Sawyer is the one responsible. Makes you wonder what some of the other losties conjured up.
Very good point. I could believe this theory...In fact, I think I do!
This business with Cooper arriving on the island in the Magic Box has been driving me crazy.
At first I was looking into the mystical theories of Magic Boxes etc. but in the end I think maybe Ben was not telling the truth (you reckon ?!!!) By saying that if you wish for something badly enough you will make it come true, mind over matter, can happen up to a point. At the same time Ben also said that the Magic Box was a metaphor.
Just to be really boring I think that Cooper was involved in a fake car accident, taken to hospital, drugged so that he didn't know what was going on, shipped onto the submarine, still drugged, (remember Juliet, although she was aware of what was going on up to a point) ended up on the island. and put into that little room (the Magic Box) where Ben introduced him to Locke. He was then removed to the Brig, ready to serve his purpose.
Because he had been drugged for most of the time since the fake accident when he woke up in the brig, he possibly really thought he was in "hell", not the fire and brimstone hell, but literally hell on earth which was not going to have a happy ending for him.
This is very simplified, and I'd love to hear everybody else's comments.
ozchick
01-22-08, 01:00 AM
This business with Cooper arriving on the island in the Magic Box has been driving me crazy.
At first I was looking into the mystical theories of Magic Boxes etc. but in the end I think maybe Ben was not telling the truth (you reckon ?!!!) By saying that if you wish for something badly enough you will make it come true, mind over matter, can happen up to a point. At the same time Ben also said that the Magic Box was a metaphor.
Just to be really boring I think that Cooper was involved in a fake car accident, taken to hospital, drugged so that he didn't know what was going on, shipped onto the submarine, still drugged, (remember Juliet, although she was aware of what was going on up to a point) ended up on the island. and put into that little room (the Magic Box) where Ben introduced him to Locke. He was then removed to the Brig, ready to serve his purpose.
Because he had been drugged for most of the time since the fake accident when he woke up in the brig, he possibly really thought he was in "hell", not the fire and brimstone hell, but literally hell on earth which was not going to have a happy ending for him.
This is very simplified, and I'd love to hear everybody else's comments.
I completely agree with you ozanna. I don't believe there's any kind of magic box. Actually:Darlton said the "magic box" was a metaphor, in a podcast, I think. I think Ben and Mittelos are powerful enough to do something exactly like what you said to Cooper, fake an accident, drug him, and bring him to the island. If they can make Juliet's ex get hit by a bus, they can certianly do that.
I too agree that the magic box was a metaphor, and that Cooper was brought to the island much in the same manner as Juliet. (Except, uh, Juliet was going on free will, of course.)
I see where you're going with this, 11Rooster11.
Do you mean Kate's horse? Jack's Dad? Dave? maybe even Yemi?
(Aw...Eko!)
*cries*
I see where you're going with this, 11Rooster11.
Do you mean Kate's horse? Jack's Dad? Dave? maybe even Yemi?
(Aw...Eko!)
*cries*
I think Jack's Dad (not seen by anyone else,) Kate's horse (also seen by Sawyer), Dave (only seen by Hurley), and Yemi (only seen by Eko - sorry Zia), were only manifestations of their own minds, apart from Sawyer and I'm not sure where he fitted in. Maybe his brush with death made him more susceptible to supernatural experiences. Or his deep feelings for her make him more susceptible to her feelings. Can't win 'em all !
But I'm pretty convinced about Cooper and the sub, plus a lot of different people saw him on the island. And he seemed to be quite aware of what was going on apart from when he'd been out of it. He definitely was alive until Sawyer killed him. Maybe I'm too practical - but you have to draw the line somewhere !
I've always felt the horse was as real as the polar bears because, like them, Sawyer saw it and said "You mean the big horse standing in the field?" after Kate said "Do you see that?"
The other examples you gave I agree with because again, as you said, they were only seen by those you mentioned and thus could have been and were likely were only manifestations of their minds. In addition, don't forget Dave literally disappeared after jumping off the cliff.
There have definitely been some strange occurrences and I'm curious to see how, or even if, they will explain them. However, I'm not holding my breath waiting for answers and frankly, I don’t expect a lot of them to be explained in any logical, plausible and rational way, let alone a scientifically valid one.
I think the horse was there - I mean, we have seen horses and cows on the island (Mikail's). Sort of like the cat Nadia - there and also tying in from something from the past.
Again, the polar bears were real.
The cows were real.
The shark was real.
The horse was apparently real.
Are the characters real?
Is the island real?
And just what is reality?
;)
11Rooster11
01-22-08, 01:55 PM
I see where you're going with this, 11Rooster11.
Do you mean Kate's horse? Jack's Dad? Dave? maybe even Yemi?
(Aw...Eko!)
*cries*
Zia, I meant some of those things, but also some other things that we haven't been shown yet. I mean, if Sawyer is responsible for "bringing" Cooper to the Island, then how long was it before he even saw Cooper? Has to be at least a week maybe more.
Now I'm just throwing things out there (no reason to believe any of these) but maybe Claire brought her Mom. Maybe Sayid brought Nadia. Maybe Juliet brought her sister. Maybe Desmond brought Penny.
maybe Claire brought her Mom. Maybe Sayid brought Nadia. Maybe Juliet brought her sister. Maybe Desmond brought Penny.
That's sort of like all those "begats" in the Bible. So and so begat so and so, who begat...
I thought they explained Jack seeing his dad and Shannon seeing Walt during season 2 in one of those little special episodes like Lost: Revelations or Lost: Revealed.
I think it was called Lost: Answers (and maybe it aired during season 3? a little help?)
During the little special thingy, TPTB said that both Jack's dad and Shannon seeing Walt were manifestations of smokie. If I'm not mistaken they also said Kate's horse was, but that doesn't make much sense to me, being as there really are horses on the island and both Kate and Sawyer saw it. I bet that horse is real. I'm also a bit confused why smokie would appear to Shannon as a soaking wet Walt, talking backwards...but, *shrugs*
GardenMom
01-22-08, 03:12 PM
I just re-watched this episode last night, and I've been enjoying the discussion going on here about Cooper, his connection to Sawyer and Locke, and the magic box. And now I want to throw out a question about this. And yes, I think it's a big conspiracy...
We've had a tendency to view Cooper's presence on the island as a manipulation tactic by Ben. And then spent a lot of time wondering if Ben was using Cooper to manipulate Locke, or Sawyer, or both of them into killing him.
But Locke has never expressed a desire to murder Cooper, or even see him dead. Locke's goal has always seemed to be accepted by his natural father, or at the least, get Cooper to give him a satisfactory explanation...or an apology...for his behavior. Why did you steal my kidney and then brush me off?
Same with Sawyer too. Sawyer maintains he is not the killing type. He sought Cooper/Real Sawyer because he wanted to read him his childhood letter...to confront him...and get either an explanation or an apology.
The person who really seems to want Cooper dead the most is Ben. Now why would Ben want that so badly? Given the precedence established by Ben's history, the people he feels the need to kill are the ones who threaten his precious island. So is there a prior Cooper connection to the island that causes Ben to feel the need to eliminate the man? Could Cooper have had a Dharma connection?
My questions lead, of course, to my pet theory that Cooper was part of early Dharma, and that he is the real father of both Locke and Ben in early island pregnancy experiments. I see definite similarities between Ben's and Cooper's ability to manipulate and con. (I also think Christian Shepard and Adam Rutherford were part of the same group of special island sperm donors - and they are now conveniently dead too. Could Ben just be on a mission to make sure that all those past loose threads of Dharma and its experiments are tied up?) Ahh, I love conspiracy.
Hollysasquatch
01-22-08, 03:19 PM
Now that is what I call a great theory!! I LOVE conspiracy theories...I don't have anything more to add at this point. ;)
GardenMom - Good to see you again. I love reading your theories !
I always thought that Ben wanted Cooper dead as a kind of bribe to Locke. He knows that Locke won't kill him himself . The fact that this island is the one place that Cooper can't get to him is one of the reasons that Locke wants to stay. I don't think he ever wanted to kill him, just get a far away as possible. Locke isn't a killer - yet. Nor is Sawyer - yet.
But I'm really intrigued by your thoughts of prior connections with the island. Looks like another project for the next long hiatus !
GardenMom
01-23-08, 05:05 AM
Hi ozanna! I have actually been rewatching all of S3 and reading all the re-watch posts. But by the time I finish reading, I'm too tired to post!
The fact that this island is the one place that Cooper can't get to him is one of the reasons that Locke wants to stay.
I think Ben planted this notion in your brain the same as he planted it in Locke's. :D
I always figured there were just two major reasons Locke wants to stay: He came out of the crash with the ability to walk, and he believes he has discovered his destiny. (And that destiny business is probably just because he has surpressed memories from his boyhood of being on the island previously IMO).
But I'm really intrigued by your thoughts of prior connections with the island. Looks like another project for the next long hiatus !
The thought of another hiatus so soon bums me out. But at least there will be another few episodes to dissect into eensy-weensy pieces. My best case scenario is that something, somewhere in one of those episodes will validate some idea that I've already posted!
The thought of another hiatus so soon bums me out. But at least there will be another few episodes to dissect into eensy-weensy pieces. My best case scenario is that something, somewhere in one of those episodes will validate some idea that I've already posted!
Hear, hear, GardenMom ! Some of the things that we have been set up to believe or at least dissect have to be answered at some stage. I think when "Lost" finally comes to an end the least they can do is give us some sort of publication with all the minutest answers in it. On second thoughts, WE should be the ones to do it - that way it might be a bit more logical !
I'm preparing for "The Brig" at the moment ! One of the most puzzling and intriguing episodes of the series ! And I don't just mean what went on in Sawyer's tent !
GardenMom says...
"Better a warrior in the garden than a gardener at war".
-Japanese proverb
:D
GardenMom
01-23-08, 06:08 PM
GardenMom says...
"Better a warrior in the garden than a gardener at war".
-Japanese proverb
:D
Hi Badger! :coffeedunk: That's cute...and just suits me fine! I also say "A rolling conspiracy gathers no moss!"
Hi Badger! :coffeedunk: That's cute...and just suits me fine! I also say "A rolling conspiracy gathers no moss!"
I love your latest conspiracy theory. It's provocative.
Hi, GardenMom and anyone who's interested ! I came across an old theory (bookmarks are wonderful !) called "Sawyer and the Secret City". Because I don't have the technique to bring it here (maybe I need a Magic Box !) it was in Theories, dated 01-31-07, and it was similar to some of your theories of people's childhood connections. Government conspiracies, Oak Ridge, Knoxville etc. At any rate it was an interesting read. Good luck !
Tomorrow is Thursday! :eek: I have to re-watch 13 & 14. Think I will watch one tonight before the sandman beckons. :whistling
AChristianShephard
08-21-08, 07:07 PM
Ive got carried away and ended up on E16 haha.
Time to backtrack, cant even remember what happened. :mad:
I'm saving this episode for tomorrow, I had to get 'Expose' out of the way first. Lol! :)
AChristianShephard
08-22-08, 08:30 PM
I remember being a bit confused at this point and really still feel the same way now, i'm just not interested in this Cooper fellow, or why he does what he does, and the link to Sawyer is just damn right silly.
The fact that the A-Team thought they could sneak into camp and rescue Jack is silly.
Now i've seen Locke dripping wet again after planting the bomb, actually inside the sub, well that is just plain wierd isnt it? hmnnnnn...
More Ben getting people to do his bidding by making them beleive it was their idea in the 1st place.
Nah not a big fan of this episode, seems muddled and unfocused, much like the season overall.
7/10
I'm afraid we dont have a code for 'theres a man in my closet holding my daughter hostage' :Hippy:
Well I finally get to rewatch this, in between the Olympics, which I again got addicted to ! And there are a few things that stand out in light of things that happen in future episodes.
When Locke is being interviewed about his disability pension, I immediately assumed that it was for his paralysis, but it was for depression. This was before he "fell" out of the 8th storey window. When asked about his parents he denies all knowledge of both Anthony Cooper and his mother. He denies Cooper twice. Once to Cooper's soon-to-be-son who he (Cooper) later has killed. When Locke questions Cooper about this he causes him to fall out of the window and become paralyzed.
Ben ask Richard to bring him the man from Talahassee (Cooper) and the mystery of the magic box rears its ugly head ! So its a metaphor.
Locke asks Ben where they get their power from and Ben says: We have two giant hamsters running on a massive wheel at our secret underground cave....
Locke: Yeah, thats funny !
I'm guessing this was a shout out to the frozen donkey wheel !
Locke gets angry with Ben because he says they are cheating - they are living on this magical island which can give them everything they desire, but they use modern appliances and come and go as they please - so he blows up the sub.
Jack has done a deal with Ben to let him and Juliet leave on the sub - he asks Ben to let his "friends" leave, but only after he has headed home. Ben says yes, of course - but would you trust this man ? Come to think of it would you trust Jack ? He swears he will send back help after he has got home, but will he ? I'm sure he will try but will he be able to ? Pretty much what is going on right now.
Anyway, Locke blows up the sub so its irrelevant, and just gives Jack more reason to hate Locke.
And then who should we find sitting in a small room in the Others village than a confused Cooper - the man from Tallahassee.
ACS - the link to Sawyer does actually make a bizarre kind of sense by the time you get to "The Brig". All in all this was not my favorite episode.
AChristianShephard
08-24-08, 03:14 PM
Well I finally get to rewatch this, in between the Olympics, which I again got addicted to !
Just wanted to point out that us Brits finaly did better that the Aussies in a sporting event for one of the 1st times in living memory :nanabobo:
Just wanted to point out that us Brits finaly did better that the Aussies in a sporting event for one of the 1st times in living memory :nanabobo:
You bet ! Is it wrong to support both countries ? :) I mean, I'll always be a Brit - people still tell me I have a Pommie accent ! But I think the highlight for me will have to be the Aussie diver who got the perfect score and the gold medal - who would have thought it ? Definitely not the Chinese ! Now its all over and I'm really sad !
As for the cricket I'm with England all the way - the Aussie cricket team are a bunch of arrogant b.........s ! :D
Sorry for the TJ !
Well I finally got caught up today. This episode shows just how a big a manipulating liar Ben is. He promised Jack and Juliet full knowing that Locke was going to blow up the sub. He kept his promise he says but cheating isn't the correct word imo. Locke, Ben isn't cheating. He is manipulating you like a yesterday's wet newspapers. Sheesh think this character would learn something. The writers really suck putting this character in this state. After being conned out of a kidney he cannot figure out what Ben is doing? So sad. :(
Lost In A Vortex
08-25-08, 12:30 AM
Dont' have a lot of time to post, but really do love this episode. :)
So many mysteries just got a little bit deeper.
I still don't understand why Locke blew up the sub.
He wanted Jack, specifically, to stay on the island??? Ben told him point blank the sub wouldn't be able to come back after they sent Jack away on it, so either he didn't want Jack to go, or he wanted to make Ben look bad to his people.
What I really found intriguing was all the stuff in Ben's house. Lots of clues to be found here... IF we knew how to decipher them!
Seeing Alex here really makes me even more sad over the way she was killed off in S4. She honestly seems to care for Ben, the way she called him "Dad" and all. Did she really believe, at the time, that he was her real father? Seemed that way to me.
The exchanges between Locke and Ben are wonderfully hilarious here, probably the best thing in this epi. I'm not ruling out that those "giant hamsters in our underground lair" are not in fact real! :D After all, this is LOST!
AChristianShephard
08-25-08, 12:58 AM
You bet ! Is it wrong to support both countries ? :) I mean, I'll always be a Brit - people still tell me I have a Pommie accent ! But I think the highlight for me will have to be the Aussie diver who got the perfect score and the gold medal - who would have thought it ? Definitely not the Chinese ! Now its all over and I'm really sad !
As for the cricket I'm with England all the way - the Aussie cricket team are a bunch of arrogant b.........s ! :D
Sorry for the TJ !
(Excuse the off-topic post peeps)
Missed that Diving Gold. Where in the UK were you from?
Your accent a popular one?
You won't know what to do in 2012 when the games are in London, excitement (and cynicysm) has already started here.
----
Back on topic, i think, even though the beacon couldn't be found, Ben didn't want the islands situation being brought to light for Widmore by Jacks escape. Mind you, he let Michael go. Hmnn..
Missed that Diving Gold. Where in the UK were you from?
Your accent a popular one?
Very quick OT - Wiltshire, on a farm, and lived in London for a few years before coming here. My accent is a mixture of southern and London but very "faded"now !
I think Ben let Michael and Walt go because Walt wasn't what they thought he was. But then Walt spoke to Locke when he was in the mass grave and told him he had work to do. There appear to be two factions on this damn island, working against each other. Ben probably thought that Michael wouldn't know enough to spill the beans so to speak. Actually I have no idea ! The longer this show goes the more befuddled I get !
Lost In A Vortex, Locke has never wanted anyone to leave the island. Back in S1 he ruined Sayid's signal, and later he blew up the Flame, etc. etc., and now he is trying to get the 06 to return.
Ozanna I saw it as a pattern of Locke's, him trying to keep anyone from
leaving the island. What I did notice this time was his being seemingly
familiar with the submarine. He seemed to know where to look to turn the
light on, etc. Had he been there before? Time loop? Captain in the Navy :)?
I remember there was lots of debate about him being wet when he returned
to the dock. Some people thought he just moved the sub. When you
watch these episode a few times I think you gain perspective. I think
he just put the C-4 outside the sub too. Time will tell.
This was not my favorite episode. Locke seemed to have his confidence
back. I like to see him one upping Ben. Of course it never lasts.
Cooper was the most tragic blow for Locke.
Ozanna I saw it as a pattern of Locke's, him trying to keep anyone from leaving the island.
One of Locke's main objectives was to keep everyone from leaving the Island all along I thought, but he does waver on this idea quite a bit.
When did he change his mind? (Jacob?) He could have given up due largely on Jack's determination that he alone rescue the Losties, not to mention their bitter rivalry.*shrugs*
Locke seems to be easily manipulated, and Ben is the master-manipulator. Locke is full of self doubt but also very positive on what he thinks they should do. Like when he tells Shannon "we were all sent here for a reason". But he sometimes gets his signals mixed and loses the plot. He is also very possessive about "his" island. So in this episode although he was standing up to Ben and appeared to have his old confidence, Ben still managed to out maneuver him and con Locke into blowing up the sub, thinking that it was all his own idea. Poor gullible Locke.
Did anyone notice Stephen King's "The Gunslinger" on Ben's night stand ? Reference to Lock ? Or Sawyer ? I posted it in Cranky's literary references !
Did anyone notice Stephen King's "The Gunslinger" on Ben's night stand ? Reference to Lock ? Or Sawyer ? I posted it in Cranky's literary references !
I didn't see it. Good call, Ozanna! :)
Did anyone notice Stephen King's "The Gunslinger" on Ben's night stand ? Reference to Lock ? Or Sawyer ? I posted it in Cranky's literary references !
Good catch, I never noticed that!
*Off to update the thread*
AChristianShephard
08-28-08, 09:19 PM
Ive never got on the 'Locke is a boob, boat.
He's up against it, all the 815 think he's a nutter, only Rose has an inkling about the island and she can't stand him. The crybaby leader wants to murder him, and Ben, armed with all his knowledge wants to murder him but for now settles for manipulating him.
Sure he goes of the rails in S04 but i suspect we'll find he was justified.
Hollysasquatch
08-28-08, 09:35 PM
Ive never got on the 'Locke is a boob, boat.
He's up against it, all the 815 think he's a nutter, only Rose has an inkling about the island and she can't stand him. The crybaby leader wants to murder him, and Ben, armed with all his knowledge wants to murder him but for now settles for manipulating him.
Sure he goes of the rails in S04 but i suspect we'll find he was justified.
Couldn't have said it better myself. I love Locke.
Ive never got on the 'Locke is a boob, boat.
Me neither ACS and Holly ! Locke has had a tragic life, and never really had anyone to offer him guidance - his mother thought he was the Son of God, and his father was Anthony Cooper - talk about drawing the short straw with regard to parents !
He may have had some wacky ideas, but who's to say they were wacky. To him the island was the answer to all his prayers. I always thought that Locke's ideas mirrored those of the earlier inhabitants who basically wanted to form a kind of hippie commune and live in peace and harmony - but that didn't work. I can see Locke as becoming a sort of benign leader but with a deputy like Sawyer to do the kick ass stuff ! I could go on for hours here, but I won't - yet !
Hollysasquatch
08-29-08, 01:49 PM
I just can't help but feel sorry for him!! The poor guy was bullied as a child, had a horrific upbringing and parents, had strange men telling him he is special and then storming away just because he selected a knife...The poor guy just wants to be happy!
Randy Nations
08-29-08, 02:01 PM
I also agree. I've gotten frustrated with John at times...really frustrated. But, I feel like we have gotten a lot of insight into his past. I think his flashbacks are some of the most revealing.
To say he has had a tough life is an understatement. He's been abandoned, put down, conned, rejected. The list is endless. He's searching......and who can blame him? I say kudos to him for not giving up, and still having hope. After all he's been through, I'd have given up by now.
AChristianShephard
08-29-08, 07:19 PM
Well, theres nothing like having your ability to walk handed back to you for re-establishing your faith eh :Hippy:
He showed signs of giving up when refusing to fight agains his disability.
Locke for me 'is' lost, more than any other character.
He was the single biggest factor in season 01 for me thinking 'wow, we have something different here'.
The show could go one without the other cast, but wouldn't be the same at all without Locke, so here's to re-incarnation next season :)
Yeah he has done some strange things but why would he do anything different when everyone would just ignore him anyway.
(Apart from killing parachutte girl though, that was just poor writing imo).
Like Oz, i could go on forever
:dj:
Randy Nations
08-31-08, 08:13 PM
Well, theres nothing like having your ability to walk handed back to you for re-establishing your faith eh :Hippy:
He showed signs of giving up when refusing to fight agains his disability.
Locke for me 'is' lost, more than any other character.
He was the single biggest factor in season 01 for me thinking 'wow, we have something different here'.
The show could go one without the other cast, but wouldn't be the same at all without Locke, so here's to re-incarnation next season :)
Yeah he has done some strange things but why would he do anything different when everyone would just ignore him anyway.
(Apart from killing parachutte girl though, that was just poor writing imo).
Like Oz, i could go on forever
:dj:
You're right....he had shown signs of giving up after the paralysis. I had forgotten that. And then he has this boss, who inexplicably belittles him at every turn. Gotta' say, I never really understood that. Why did Randy hate him so much?
Anyway, I digress. I totally agree with you when you say that Locke was one of the things that made the show feel really interesting and different in the beginning. He was someone who really kept me guessing in S1. Every scene with him was like peeling off another layer.
I agree about Locke. He is one of the most fascinating characters on the entire show. He always was.
To say that he has had a tortured past is an understatement. (I think Randy Nations said the same thing. Lol.) He has definitely frustrated the hell out of me with his failures, naitivity, and mistakes which are often difficult to watch, and they also add to justify his humanity, but he is certainly determined to see his destiny through and finally shake off the horrible past that he has had.
I think Locke's role is vital to the fate of the Losties and the Island. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
AChristianShephard
08-31-08, 10:28 PM
Randy Nations is also Locke's boss at the box factory? As well as working at Mr.Klucks?
Am i just confused now?
Well ive not had time to assess Season 4 yet but this talk about Lockes searching out his destiny has kinda gone full circle now he's been appointed the others leader (presumption) and is now in fact dead haha.
Randy Nations
09-01-08, 12:03 AM
Yes, Randy is the Cluck U guy and Locke's nasty boss. It was one of those wacky coincidence/connections that I love about this show, which is why I chose him for my name (because I definitely don't like him!).
Well ive not had time to assess Season 4 yet but this talk about Lockes searching out his destiny has kinda gone full circle now he's been appointed the others leader (presumption) and is now in fact dead haha.
How dead is dead though? I was thinking maybe not so much, considering that Ben is insisting that they have to bring Locke's body back to the Island with them. I'm looking forward to rewatching Season four, that's for sure.
My theory about Locke being dead:
Locke is dead in a flashforward. That means Locke will still get screen time all through season 5, and we'll probably see him die sometime in the season 5 finale. I am 95% certain this is the way things will work out.
Season 6 is the tricky one. To not have Locke, who is arguably the most interesting character and star of the show, in the entire last season would be an epic mistake. However, TPTB are not known for their by-the-numbers writing. To resurrect Locke once he returns to the island in season 6 would feel like a cop out to me.
Perhaps through season 6 Locke will merely play the Wet Walt/Christian Shepard/Jacob character and mysteriously appear and disappear around the island to different folks. While it doesn't do volumes for character development, I think it's better than a Lazarus-Locke or no Locke at all.
AChristianShephard
09-04-08, 08:14 PM
I think you may be right Cranky, which almost g'tees your wrong :D:D:D
There are so many ways they can go with Locke now. Surely for such an important character it has to be something we could never of predicted that will make us go WOW!
I'm really looking foward to Season 4 rewatch.
Is that how you guys time it then? Do we get a S4 rewatch when the DVD's drop in December?
I'm really sticking my neck out here, but I actually think that Locke has, or is going to, achieved immortality - he has always believed fervently in the island and I can't believe that he will just be killed off and forgotten about. Richard appears to be immortal, and maybe those that stay on the island will have that choice as long as they never leave - yay, shirtless Sawyer for all eternity !
ACS - I'm also looking forward to S4 - I'm sure I've forgotten heaps. Not sure when we will start - ZIA will tell us !
AChristianShephard
09-05-08, 12:25 AM
That's an awesome idea Ozzie, now that you mention how much Locke believes in the island i agree with you that it would be strange if the island let him die.
Mind you, i bet Ben thought the same?
Then again Locke was cured of spinal injury so is very very special indeed.
I wonder if Richard only ages when he leaves the island then, like, say when he went to recruit Julliette, and it took 2days, thats 2days of aging for him too.
I wonder if Sawyer is in charge of the others in Locke's absence!
Oh dear i need to stop, this shows possibilities are completey endless haha.:hulk:
I'm really sticking my neck out here, but I actually think that Locke has, or is going to, achieved immortality - he has always believed fervently in the island and I can't believe that he will just be killed off and forgotten about. Richard appears to be immortal, and maybe those that stay on the island will have that choice as long as they never leave - yay, shirtless Sawyer for all eternity !
ACS - I'm also looking forward to S4 - I'm sure I've forgotten heaps. Not sure when we will start - ZIA will tell us !
What if Locke knows that he can die however the timeline can be pushed back and he can avoid that death or defer it to a future point in time? This way there is no issue about the suicide. He dies knowing he will be alive when the time line is adjusted. Kind of like a course correction. Crazier things have happened on this show. :)
What if Locke knows that he can die however the timeline can be pushed back and he can avoid that death or defer it to a future point in time? This way there is no issue about the suicide. He dies knowing he will be alive when the time line is adjusted. Kind of like a course correction. Crazier things have happened on this show. :)
Good point, Dew. Why would Locke want to die anyway ? All sorts of reasons I guess - the bad stuff thats going on on the island. Anyway they can't kill Locke, or Sawyer ......
Maybe dying is a way back to the island? Maybe if you go to the island, then leave, then die, you return to the island as an ageless entity?
*wonders if that could have happened to Richard*
Maybe dying is a way back to the island? Maybe if you go to the island, then leave, then die, you return to the island as an ageless entity?
*wonders if that could have happened to Richard*
Wow ! Another great idea ! :Cheers: So maybe Sawyer will take advantage of Ben's secret passage, go and get Kate and Aaron and bring them back (preferrably without you-know-who) and lve happily shirtless ever after ! :D
I thought the same thing about Locke, Ozanna--that he will be resurrected.
Why else would they have to bring him back to the island. Okay, there
could be hundreds of reasons, but resurrection is the most likely imo.
Oh Cranky, what an idea, that dying is the way back to the island and you return as
an immortal!
AChristianShephard
09-06-08, 01:30 AM
Not too sure i like the idea of Sawyer taking advantage of Bens secret passage :whitecat:
Not too sure i like the idea of Sawyer taking advantage of Bens secret passage :whitecat:
You have a point ! :D It could be quite dangerous ......
LOST Hiatus Rewatch:
Week 21
Weds., October 14th-October 20th, 2009
S3:E13: The Man From Tallahassee
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u34/zia29112/LOST%20Stuff/300px-Lost-season1.jpg
World Walker
10-16-09, 03:44 AM
This episode is another big highlight from Season Three. We finally learn how Locke ended up in that wheelchair, we got to see the barracks up close, we got deviously large quantities of Ben, and we get a big explosion at the end. What more could a rabid fan want? ;)
That was a good fake out at the beginning when Locke was claiming his “disability” which turned out to be depression rather than paralysis.
When Locke was following Jack with the binoculars, he spied Ben in a wheelchair; this is the first time he has seen Fenry since he was a prisoner in the hatch. That seems so long ago, doesn’t it?
That horrible show, Expose, was audible on the TV during Locke’s flashback when Peter Talbot came to visit him. Watch out for The Cobra! Duh-duh-duuuuuuuuuh……… :rolleyez:
Locke points at the sign: “I’m sorry, no solicitors. I have a sign…” :rotfl:
That very wistful piano tune Jack’s playing when Kate enters his temporary barracks home is his own theme, most notably played during the Season Three finale when he tries to commit suicide in LA during his flash-forward by jumping off a bridge.
You know, I was always curious what building in the barracks they used to monitor Jack with those cameras and thanks to Season Five, I think it would be a fair guess to say it was the security bunker (you know, where Miles, Jin, and Sawyer worked). The Others sure scrambled fast, capturing Sayid and Kate in short order.
Ben doesn’t get surprised very often, but his eyes sure bug out when he is surprised and that’s exactly what happened when he saw an armed Locke lurking in his bedroom. Of course, we all know he turns that around to his advantage.
This episode marks our second Richard Alpert sighting and his first episode on the Island. Yay! :thumbs_up
Tom seemed to be watching Jack’s back with his, “Be careful in here,” comment, coupled with his twirled finger motion as Jack enters the Dharma Rec room. I think he’s basically telling Jack to be careful what he says to Kate in front of the cameras. Is he afraid of what his fellow Others will do to the doc if Jack tells Kate more than the Others want her to know?
Had Jack been able to leave the Island with Juliet on the sub as originally planned, it would be interesting to see if/how he would return to the Island. He promised Kate that he would come back for her. If the Island needed him, it would find a way to bring him back, just as the Island found a way to bring the Oceanic Six back with the Ajira 316 flight. Obviously, this is a rather moot and theoretical point, because Jack didn’t leave the Island on the sub. I simply find it very ironic how Jack would seemingly find a reason to return to the Island no matter how he leaves.
Ben asks Locke if he’s afraid that if he ever leaves the Island he would end up back in the wheelchair. That’s a question many fans had also wondered about over the years. So, would John end up back in his wheelchair? We find out the truth in Season Five and the answer is yes and no. As we found out in Season Five, John Locke’s paralysis was permanently healed thanks to his crash on the Island, and going off island did not bring it back. He did, however, end up back in a wheelchair because he broke his leg falling down the Donkey Wheel well. Talk about irony!
Poor Sayid is cuffed in the barracks playground. When is this guy not a prisoner at the barracks? Season Three, he’s a prisoner of the Others; Season Four, he’s a temporary prisoner of Locke’s faction; Season Five, he’s a prisoner of the Dharma Initiative. There’s some serious symmetry going on here and Sayid’s the butt of one nasty joke.
Ben about electricity: “We have two giant hamsters running on a massive wheel in our secret underground lair.” :clap:
Have I ever mentioned how Terry O’ Quinn + Michael Emerson = gold every…single…time? :worshippy
Ben mentions the “magic box”, a subject he will live to regret mentioning to a gullible John Locke.
Locke heavily criticizes Ben and the Others about the way they live on the Island. He says that they cheat by using electricity and running water, communicating with the outside world, and using guns. He calls them hypocrites. I think Locke has made a very good point. I think it’s clear from indications in Dead Is Dead that Ben was the one who ordered the Others to move into the barracks after The Purge. In a way, Ben domesticated the Others. They lived very differently during the earlier time periods we saw in Season Five, nomadically moving from place to place. Maybe by engaging with technology, the Others lose their touch with the Island just as surely as Locke lost his touch with the Island during his time in the hatch. Maybe this is the very reason why Richard Alpert never moved the Others back into the barracks after Ben turned the Donkey Wheel. I was always curious why that place had been abandoned for three years. For all appearances, the post-2004 Others (those who aren’t in The Temple, that is) have seemingly resumed their pre-purge way of living nomadically from place to place. :hmm:
Danielle gets her first glimpse of her daughter.
Ben has got Jack fooled into thinking he’s a man of his word. Each of those handshakes Ben gave Jack was just for show. He has ways of weaseling out of his word and fortunately, he has Locke to do that for him in this episode.
Why is Locke soaking wet after planting the C4 on the sub? The theory that he moved the sub himself and only blew up part of the docks was plausible a few years ago, but it’s been so long and no mention of this incident has ever come back up on this show that I think he really did blow up the sub. That still doesn’t explain why he’s wet. Maybe he’s extremely clumsy and slipped getting out…who knows. The thing I know for sure is that Locke wanted that sub gone. My guess is he really did blow it up.
Alright, here’s the score. John has killed two hatches and one submarine. That is quite the hefty total in only a fourteen episode span!
Cooper drinks McCuthcheon’s. Why am I not surprised?
That was a very surprising moment when Cooper tackles Locke and throws him out the window. It was so abrupt. I know some people were disappointed with how it happened, but I thought it worked out well. After all the history these two have had, it seems like this was the only way they could’ve revealed Locke’s paralysis. Kudos to everyone who theorized his dad was the cause of John’s disability.
I like how the camera used John’s perspective at the hospital as the nurse was setting him down into the wheelchair. The way he broke down was heartbreaking. What happened to him really sucked the big one. Poor Locke… :no:
What an awesome reveal at the end with Anthony Cooper tied up in that room! Now, that’s how you end an episode of LOST! :Cheers:
Locke 'n' Load
10-26-09, 01:57 AM
WW, I can't tell you how much I enjoy your summaries! As you can see from my signature, I am a Locke fan. I like it when posters can relate what they see without bashing certain characters. Thank you!
World Walker
10-26-09, 10:30 PM
WW, I can't tell you how much I enjoy your summaries! As you can see from my signature, I am a Locke fan. I like it when posters can relate what they see without bashing certain characters. Thank you!
Thanks for the kind words! I try pretty hard to call it as I see it in a neutral manner with a few inserted jokes here and there. Besides, there's always two sides to any story, so I like to explore all the facets to keep my brain sharp. Locke is one of my favorite characters, as well, and even though it's technically not him anymore, I can't wait to see what the writers do next with Terry in Season Six.
This is possibly the funniest lines of dialogue ever:-
Jack - I told you not to come back here for me.
Kate - I didn't think you meant it.
Jack starts crying.
No, Locke does not want anyone going off the island. Whether he is right or wrong, he is determined. Why does no-one believe him ? Because they think he is an idiot. Walt had the right idea about Mr.Locke. "I would trust Mr. Locke more than anyone else on this island." Out of the mouths of babes.
Why does Jack encourage Ben with his lies ? He knows damn well that Ben won't allow him to go on the sub, and if he does, what will be the point because they can't get back, so he won't be able to rescue them anyway. Well Locke blows it up, just to make sure. When are the Losties going to wake up to the fact that they are definitely in the Hotel California. :)
Alright, here’s the score. John has killed two hatches and one submarine. That is quite the hefty total in only a fourteen episode span!
WW, he could start up a convenient wrecker's business when he gets home - oh that's right, he's not going home - whatever !
World Walker
10-29-09, 12:17 PM
WW, he could start up a convenient wrecker's business when he gets home - oh that's right, he's not going home - whatever !
Yes!!!! Join the J. Locke Demolition Crew today! :nanabobo:
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