View Full Version : Why did Libby tell Michael not to activate the fake bomb?
stoned_raider
03-21-08, 09:46 PM
When Michael was about to activate the bomb a vision of Libby appeared telling him not to do it. I don't see what the purpose of this was since the bomb was a dud. Can the smoke monster or whatever the visions are be tricked too? lol
Unless, activating the bomb caused the sickness to spread around the boat and that's why some of the crew members are going crazy. I know that's a stretch since obviously not all of the crew members are having problems and it doesn't even seem plausible to begin with.
I guess it could be more of the whole lesson michael is learning about killing innocent people and it's basically telling him he would still make the same mistakes. But I think there's more to it.
L8O1S5T
03-21-08, 09:54 PM
The bomb is not a dud. Ben probably anticipated Michael activating the bomb too early. Libby was there to warn him, like any other havid.
Michael thought he was gonna kill himself so I assume that it was just all in his mind.
stoned_raider
03-21-08, 10:03 PM
Michael activated the bomb when he was instructed to and Ben tells him the purpose was to show that he doesn't kill innocent people... imo that means the bomb is fake. I do see what you're saying though since the note said not yet and thus contradicts Ben's explanation. It's all pretty confusing.
stoned_raider
03-21-08, 10:09 PM
Michael thought he was gonna kill himself so I assume that it was just all in his mind.
That's the most logical explanation, but it's Lost so yeah... Hurley also had visions similar and it just seems to easy to write them off as being in the character's head. I'd like to think they serve some kind of purpose.
I still don't understand the purpose of the bomb.
If it was real, how can there possible be a time "too soon" to set it off. I mean, look how much Michael waited and guess where the freighter people are...on the island. If I were Ben, the sooner I could sink the freighter, the better.
If the bomb isn't real at all then why send it? Why jeopardize Michael's cover...what if the captain had rummaged in that box and found the bomb and grew suspicious of "Kevin"
I'm assuming the only reason there was a bomb introduced into the story was because the episode needed ten more minutes length? Or maybe TPTB just don't want Locke to have to carry C4 around when he finally decides to blow the freighter up...it'll be handy.
10,000Dayz
03-22-08, 02:58 AM
Didn't Michael have to enter a code to "set off" the bomb? Perhaps the code he was given triggered the not yet flag, and a code to actually set off the bomb was something planned to be communicated to Michael at a future time.
LightSide/DarkSide
03-22-08, 03:17 AM
I think Mike is overwhelmed with guilt and shame over the murder of Libby and Ana. I don't think that Libby is a havid of the sort we've been seeing on the island. I think she is Mike's conscience "haunting" him. She's like a tell-tell heart thump-thump thump-thump always there to remind him of what he did. He had doubts after having met some of the other people on the boat. When he thought he was going to blow them all up he hesitated. Libby, his conscience, tried to talk him out of it. Killing more people wouldn't make up for the two that he murdered.
I think the bomb is real. I think Ben just wanted Mike on the boat so he could get the names and have Mike there to sabotage equipment. When Ben is ready for the bomb I think he probably has a way to detonate it from the island. I don't believe for a second that Ben cares about "innocent" people on that boat. I think there's something on that boat that he wants and as soon as he gets it BOOM!
The bomb was a test to see if Michael would go through such an extreme action. A guage of his commitment.
The bomb was a test to see if Michael would go through such an extreme action. A guage of his commitment.
I agree.
I thought it was Ben's way of evaluating Michael's loyalty, Ben can't resist a good mind game after all. He seemed a little surprised when Michael confirmed that he set it off.
LightSide/DarkSide
03-22-08, 10:08 AM
I don't know if it would be a confirmation of loyalty so much as a willingness to commit suicide. I don't think Ben believes Mike is a fanatic that is willing to die for the cause or anything like that.
Jack T Kirk
03-22-08, 12:20 PM
The purpose of the bomb was simply to get Michael onto the boat. He was all primed for the suicide mission, but initially I don't think he would've agreed to be Ben's spy. Once he was on the boat and completely vulnerable, Ben revealed his true purpose for him.
The bomb was a test to see if Michael would go through such an extreme action. A guage of his commitment.
I still don't see what it proves?
Why not have the bomb be real, that way Ben knows that Michael is not only loyal but dead...along with everyone else on the freighter.
You would think he would want to test Michael's loyalty before he got on the freighter, not after.
When Ben asked for a list of names; it seemed like he changed his mind about blowing the freighter up entirely and decided there may be innocent people on the freighter. I don't know, but he wanted to know who was on board for some reason.
What are your thoughts, Cranky?
ETA: Cranky, do you have S4 on dvr? Do you feel like rewatching them?
Hit me up in the rewatch forum.
stoned_raider
03-22-08, 07:52 PM
When Ben asked for a list of names; it seemed like he changed his mind about blowing the freighter up entirely and decided there may be innocent people on the freighter. I don't know, but he wanted to know who was on board for some reason.
I imagine he wanted to know more about them for future recruiting purposes. I think Miles is on the verge of joining the others if he hasn't already. Do you think he was just using psychic powers when he told Michael he knew Kevin Johnson wasn't his real name or do you think he's been working with Ben all along?
I watched the episode again last night and the Libby visions are even more creepy than before. Unfortunately I'm starting to think they had no real purpose and were just there to appease Libby fans :rolleyez:
A weird thing about Libby in the hospital room - right before he sees her, the guy next to him has a tube down his throat. After he sees her and wakes up, the guy has an oxygen mask, and there's a christmas tree in the hallway. I don't know, maybe it just means he was dreaming that time. (sorry if this has been pointed out in other threads - I haven't seen it, but it's hard to imagine it hasn't).
angrychineseguy
03-23-08, 04:41 AM
A weird thing about Libby in the hospital room - right before he sees her, the guy next to him has a tube down his throat. After he sees her and wakes up, the guy has an oxygen mask, and there's a christmas tree in the hallway. I don't know, maybe it just means he was dreaming that time. (sorry if this has been pointed out in other threads - I haven't seen it, but it's hard to imagine it hasn't).
it was a guilt inspired nightmare or libby was an island inspired apparition reinforcing his guilt which convinces him further to take on friendly's proposition. the interesting this is that the first time libby appears, there are no audio cues such as whispers but when she appears on the boat, the whispers are clearly there.
LOST lunatic
03-23-08, 04:50 AM
So if the bomb is not a dud how will Michael make sure it blows up for real next time? And how the heck did Ben set it to not blow up, to only pop up that little message?
fresburger
03-23-08, 04:58 AM
So if the bomb is not a dud how will Michael make sure it blows up for real next time? And how the heck did Ben set it to not blow up, to only pop up that little message?
Perhaps different codes trigger different reactions.
Michael entered 77176 (I think)...that code brings up the flag.
Besides, the C4 is moot at this point. I think the Oceanic 6 get back home on the freighter. So it can't be blown up.
Just pure speculation on my part.
Zahalsky
03-23-08, 07:38 AM
Maybe the code had to be entered twice to blow up. Maybe Ben wanted to be sure he talked to Michael first and got his precious list before he blew up the bomb. He didn't get another chance before Sayid discovered him.
I know Ben seems to know everything, but maybe he doesn't know that Sayid and Desmond have been transported to the boat. Then again, since Michael already sent the list (or the communications equipment wouldn't have been sabotaged) maybe Ben doesn't care.
At this point, assuming Michael told Sayid about the bomb, it will probably be thrown overboard soon.
I thought Michael told Sayid and Desmond everything that occurred in his flashback, but that was questioned in another thread, so maybe he didn't.
I imagine he wanted to know more about them for future recruiting purposes. I think Miles is on the verge of joining the others if he hasn't already. Do you think he was just using psychic powers when he told Michael he knew Kevin Johnson wasn't his real name or do you think he's been working with Ben all along?
I watched the episode again last night and the Libby visions are even more creepy than before. Unfortunately I'm starting to think they had no real purpose and were just there to appease Libby fans :rolleyez:
I should watch it again. I can't decide if Miles was just being a smartass or if he really did know it was a fake name. I'd like him to use his psychic powers and find out who shot Karl and Danielle. :)
When Ben asked for a list of names; it seemed like he changed his mind about blowing the freighter up entirely and decided there may be innocent people on the freighter. I don't know, but he wanted to know who was on board for some reason.
What are your thoughts, Cranky?
ETA: Cranky, do you have S4 on dvr? Do you feel like rewatching them?
Hit me up in the rewatch forum.
I don't have them on my dvr, but the ABC website has all of the episodes up (or did the last time I checked).
I suppose a mini-hiatus warrants a mini-rewatch.
As for Ben's line of thinking, he was surprised that Michael (tried to) set the bomb off so soon. When did he plan on Michael setting the bomb off? After a helicopter load of freighters landed on the island? And if he was planning on setting the bomb off later why include a "Not Yet" note? Was he planning on never setting the bomb off?
Maybe the bomb is time-set and Ben only gave Michael the illusion of being able to detonate it. I don't know what purpose that would serve, though.
Maybe the bomb is time-set and Ben only gave Michael the illusion of being able to detonate it. I don't know what purpose that would serve, though.
I swear I'm having deja vu, but isn't it possible that they gave Michael the wrong code first just to check his level of commitment? Ben doesn't have any reason to trust Michael. No one does. (imo)
still lost
03-24-08, 01:01 AM
Ben is good at reading people. If that was a test of committment, all it really accomplished was ticking Michael of with the litte game. It wasn't a very good test. All it proved, as has been mentioned, is that Michael is suicidal and, if anything, it would have served to push Michael further away from Ben. I think Michael was put on the freighter for a reason and it wasn't to spy or blow anything up (anyone could have been recruited to do that...why Michael?)
I swear I'm having deja vu, but isn't it possible that they gave Michael the wrong code first just to check his level of commitment? Ben doesn't have any reason to trust Michael. No one does. (imo)
While this may be Ben's (and TPTB's) line of thinking, it still doesn't make much sense, unless Michael was recruited for reasons other than blowing up the freighter:
Ben is good at reading people. If that was a test of committment, all it really accomplished was ticking Michael of with the litte game. It wasn't a very good test. All it proved, as has been mentioned, is that Michael is suicidal and, if anything, it would have served to push Michael further away from Ben. I think Michael was put on the freighter for a reason and it wasn't to spy or blow anything up (anyone could have been recruited to do that...why Michael?)
If Ben was testing Michael to see how committed he was, why would he test his commitment by seeing if he would blow up the freighter? Why not just blow it up?
Personally, it would've taken ever ounce of energy to set off the bomb once...I wouldn't be able to do it a second time. So why waste the opportunity?
Personally, it would've taken ever ounce of energy to set off the bomb once...I wouldn't be able to do it a second time. So why waste the opportunity?
Good point.
Since it didn't blow up the first time, what is Michael's incentive to set it off again? Another near death experience would be enough motivation for me to not do it again.
He could stick a fuse in the C4, light it and run for the hills...oh wait...he is on a boat ;)
Thatguy2001
03-24-08, 07:34 AM
Libby is representing the island, Ben is not. Libby (ie the island) told Michael not to activate the bomb because he has another purpose here and that purpose doesn't involve working for Ben. We all know what happened the last time Michael did something for Ben and the Others. By activating the bomb, Michael is once again showing he alliegance to Ben and the Others. The island is trying to help him but it seems like Michael doesn't want that help.
leftkidney
03-24-08, 01:34 PM
I still don't understand the purpose of the bomb.
If it was real, how can there possible be a time "too soon" to set it off. I mean, look how much Michael waited and guess where the freighter people are...on the island. If I were Ben, the sooner I could sink the freighter, the better.
If the bomb isn't real at all then why send it? Why jeopardize Michael's cover...what if the captain had rummaged in that box and found the bomb and grew suspicious of "Kevin"
I'm assuming the only reason there was a bomb introduced into the story was because the episode needed ten more minutes length? Or maybe TPTB just don't want Locke to have to carry C4 around when he finally decides to blow the freighter up...it'll be handy.
that means the bomb is fake but the C4 isnt?
why do that? unless... Ben wants the freighter to get off the island since the sub is gone now and the C4 will be useful so he sent it so the bomb looked real if Michael looked at it but just not go off without a detonator or when ever Ben wants it to
Tuwartu
03-24-08, 02:50 PM
What if ...
1. The bomb is real.
2. It was set to go off.
3. It didn't go off for the same reason the bullet didn't work- Michael is not ready to die, according to the Island.
4. Ben knew this may be the case, and therefore left a failsafe (not yet) sign in case the whole thing went awry.
That may represent the variable the Island's will represents. Ben, having run against the will of the Island, may be careful to leave the possibility open.
This also would account for Libby showing up and telling Michael not to set it off yet....
In this scenario- the Island needs Michael to do something else- or it needs someone on the boat that would have died.
Ben may have been prepared for this outcome.
I got that Matrix type vibe where there was a Deja Vu and they changed something.
There were whispers, then Libby, it distracted Michael's attention away from the bomb. Did they decide not to blow it up yet and changed the bomb?
it was a guilt inspired nightmare or libby was an island inspired apparition reinforcing his guilt which convinces him further to take on friendly's proposition. the interesting this is that the first time libby appears, there are no audio cues such as whispers but when she appears on the boat, the whispers are clearly there.
I might have been hearing things, but I thought in the hospital room she called him Kevin. I'll have to watch it again. Just blew through all 8 episodes to get caught up. So, I'm on overload a bit. If she called him Kevin then either she's an island manifestation or the events were shown out of order and michael crashed his car after he met with Tom.
Also as for the original post I really have no idea why she told him not to set the fake bomb. Maybe because he thought it was real and the island was trying to see how well it could manipulate michael. When he went through with it the island was all "ok libby vision not very good at controlling this guy".
Edit: Rewatched it. She calls him Mr. Dawson not Mr. Johnson...oh well I guess I wanted it to be cooler than it was. Libby was just there to make Libby fans happy I guess.
ccmerlot
03-24-08, 06:03 PM
- we know mike is suicidal: he tried several times by the time tom got to him in New York
- tom told him the island "won't let" him die
- tom also instructed mike to set the bomb off as soon as he gets into open water (and to ditch his phone....no idea why mike had to toss the phone)
- yes, ben does not kill innocent people, he just gets someone else to do it for him: mike, fer instance
- this seemed alot like the con ben pulled on Sawyer: just look at what happened to THAT relationship
dharmaqueen
03-25-08, 12:53 AM
The purpose of the bomb was simply to get Michael onto the boat. He was all primed for the suicide mission, but initially I don't think he would've agreed to be Ben's spy. Once he was on the boat and completely vulnerable, Ben revealed his true purpose for him.
I agree, he wanted a suicide mission and got much worse. That is why he said to Sayid I came on this boat to die.
still lost
03-25-08, 02:02 AM
I think maybe Michael is being set up by Ben to be a fall guy which will make the freighters appear to be the bad guys that Ben says that they are. Remember, we don't know what their mission is. According to Ben they'll kill everyone on the island, but that might not be true.
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